Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-17 Thread Gelu Gogancea
Hi Bruce,
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Feist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MySQL List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open
source


 Gelu Gogancea wrote:

 You make confusion between terms, CONCEPTS and TECHNOLOGIES.Is not yet
 invented the tools which should THINK instead of  our BRAIN when must
design
 a system...any kind of.
 
 You are mistaken if you think that I am confused about this.
...maybe...but from what you describe in your messages that is
understandable.


 There are RDBMS's out there that support the features that I described.
Yes, of course.

  An example is CA-OpenIngres.  They are good for building distributed
 databases because they allow the implementer to work at a higher and
 more appropriate level, concentrating on the distribution appropriate
 instead of the mechanism for implementing distribution, and because they
 let the application developer ignore the fact that the database happens
 to be distributed.
Ah...:)...so, now o lot of things began to be jointlyi agree.
MySQL don't have implemented such a *powerful tool*(ad-literam copy words,
from Ingres website).


 I made no claim that these other tools think or design; they simply
You understand me wrong...it's was like example to be obvious the difference
between, concepts and technologies(or tools, if i can said in this way)

 have extra functionality which implements distribution
...i guess that you wish to said : functionality which are permissive for
implementing the distribution.
Functionality, which must be able to manage two/more tables on the
heterogeneous network environment.With this capabilites it's more easy to
implement the distribution.Quite true.


-- which is what the original poster was asking about.  A human being still
must figure
 out what the most effective distribution strategy is.
Yes.It seems that we begin to talk about the same things.And now become
the correct answer:
MYSQL CAN BE USED  IN THE DISTRIBUTED ENVIRONMENT SYSTEMS.


 MySQL is a fine RDBMS; it simply does not implement distribution in its
engine.

By claiming that it does, you do a disservice to other RDBMSs
 which *do*, and to people looking for such a solution.
This is not was my intention.The result of this kind of discussions, always
should go to some things which must be more clearly.Every project
leader,manager...whatever...must be able to make out the correct decision,
depend on his needs pertain to his knowledge,experince.


 Bruce Feist

Regards,

Gelu





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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-15 Thread Gelu Gogancea
Hi,
You make confusion between terms, CONCEPTS and TECHNOLOGIES.Is not yet
invented the tools which should THINK instead of  our BRAIN when must design
a system...any kind of.I hope you feel the difference.For example,a new
concept of databases is : the neural database system.What you will do now?To
wait until some *automation* will be implemented ?
Anyhow this discussion risk to be already off topic for MySQL mailing list.

Regards,
Gelu
_
G.NET SOFTWARE COMPANY

Permanent e-mail address : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Feist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MySQL List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open
source


 Gelu Gogancea wrote:

 It's quite right, some  SQL DataBase engines(like Oracle,DB2,msSQL) have
 implemented facilities for this.
 Distributed database can be achieved,like example, using DISTRIBUTED
 OBJECTS(let's say CORBA).In my understanding that means that MySQL
already
 can be used like distributed database.
 
 Can be used like is not the same as is.  Similarly, by writing
 software in C, you can achieve SQL and use OS files like a relational
 database -- that doesn't mean that flat files *are* a relational database.

 Finally,What i wish to say is that distributed databases depend on us to
be
 achieved and not by the RDBMS.
 
 Yes, it can be done manually... but there are many advantages to having
Is not invented yet the tools/technologies which can design

 the distributed capabilities built into the RDBMS itself.  I've used
 such systems (Computer Associates' OpenIngres product), and when
 distributed capabilities are needed it's far superior to use a product
 designed for it.  Some examples of the improvements are:
 1)  Distributed optimizer automatically takes advantage of changes to
 distribution structure
 2)  Applications can be written which are independant of distribution
 structure
 3)  Complexity of applications is reduced, resulting in lower
 development costs and fewer bugs
 4)  Transaction management spanning databases on multiple computers

 Paul have right and i read very carefully him message:He said (very
explicit
 and without any doubt)that MySQL can not manage multiple tables which are
 hosted on different servers with one single query.For me this is not a
 reason to not use MySQL for distributed database system.
 
 It's one factor, though.  If we relax the definition of a distributed
 database system to be a client-server RDBMS which can be used to build
 an application which can combine information from queries to multiple
 databases on multiple computers, as it seems you wish to do, then yes,
 MySQL qualifies, and has its usual advantages of low cost, open source,
 and speed.  Depending on the project's needs, these may or may not be
 enough to counterbalance built-in distribution capabilities of true
 distributed RDBMSs.

 If i remember well, on the MySQL website is a link to a german company
which
 has develop a modules which treat multiple MySQL database(hosted on
 different machine of course) to a logical one.
 
 If so, then using it in conjunction with MySQL would indeed create a
 distributed database management system.

 Bruce Feist



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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-15 Thread Bruce Feist
Gelu Gogancea wrote:

You make confusion between terms, CONCEPTS and TECHNOLOGIES.Is not yet
invented the tools which should THINK instead of  our BRAIN when must design
a system...any kind of.
You are mistaken if you think that I am confused about this.  

There are RDBMS's out there that support the features that I described. 
An example is CA-OpenIngres.  They are good for building distributed 
databases because they allow the implementer to work at a higher and 
more appropriate level, concentrating on the distribution appropriate 
instead of the mechanism for implementing distribution, and because they 
let the application developer ignore the fact that the database happens 
to be distributed.

I made no claim that these other tools think or design; they simply 
have extra functionality which implements distribution -- which is what 
the original poster was asking about.  A human being still must figure 
out what the most effective distribution strategy is.

MySQL is a fine RDBMS; it simply does not implement distribution in its 
engine.  By claiming that it does, you do a disservice to other RDBMSs 
which *do*, and to people looking for such a solution.

Bruce Feist



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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread Bruce Feist
Gelu Gogancea wrote:

To anyone that *didn't see the forest because of the trees*.

You already find it.

Is MySQL really distributed, or just client-server?  I've seen no 
indication of distributed capabilities; I'm new to MySQL, so maybe I 
just haven't read enough.  But a distributed DBMS should be able to 
execute a single query which transparently accesses multiple database 
installations on multiple computers, possibly on multiple platforms. 
For instance,

SELECT * from a, b ON a.id = b.id;

where table 'a' is in a database on a Windows/2000 computer and table 
'b' is on a Linux machine.  The DBMS should keep track of which table is 
in which database on which computer, and its optimizer should be capable 
of figuring out an efficient way of resolving such queries.

Can MySQL do that?

Bruce Feist

- Original Message -
From: james [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 4:44 PM
 

I am looking for a bona fide distributed database system, like Oracle or
SQLServer, but open source running on Linux. 





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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread gerald_clark
No, it is not distributed.

Bruce Feist wrote:

Gelu Gogancea wrote:

To anyone that *didn't see the forest because of the trees*.

You already find it.

Is MySQL really distributed, or just client-server?  I've seen no 
indication of distributed capabilities; I'm new to MySQL, so maybe I 
just haven't read enough.  But a distributed DBMS should be able to 
execute a single query which transparently accesses multiple database 
installations on multiple computers, possibly on multiple platforms. 
For instance,

SELECT * from a, b ON a.id = b.id;

where table 'a' is in a database on a Windows/2000 computer and table 
'b' is on a Linux machine.  The DBMS should keep track of which table 
is in which database on which computer, and its optimizer should be 
capable of figuring out an efficient way of resolving such queries.

Can MySQL do that?

Bruce Feist




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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread Brian Johnson
My experience may be limited but I don't know of any database that will allow a
single query to access mutiple database servers

In fact, only a few seem to be able to even access mutiple databases on the same server

Frankly, I am still looking for a db that provides n way replication (this may solve
some of your wishes since a local copy could be maintain on your local server)


Paul DuBois ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

At 9:55 -0500 3/14/03, Bruce Feist wrote:
Gelu Gogancea wrote:

To anyone that *didn't see the forest because of the trees*.

You already find it.

Is MySQL really distributed, or just client-server?  I've seen no
indication of distributed capabilities; I'm new to MySQL, so maybe I
just haven't read enough.  But a distributed DBMS should be able to
execute a single query which transparently accesses multiple
database installations on multiple computers, possibly on multiple
platforms. For instance,

SELECT * from a, b ON a.id = b.id;

where table 'a' is in a database on a Windows/2000 computer and
table 'b' is on a Linux machine.  The DBMS should keep track of
which table is in which database on which computer, and its
optimizer should be capable of figuring out an efficient way of
resolving such queries.

Can MySQL do that?

Bruce Feist

No.  A given connection is a connection to a specific server.  You cannot
access tables managed by different servers within a single query.


- Original Message -
From: james [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 4:44 PM

I am looking for a bona fide distributed database system, like Oracle or
SQLServer, but open source running on Linux.


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--
Brian Johnson

This is where my witty signature line would be if I bothered to edit this line :)



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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread Gelu Gogancea
Hi,
IMHO:
The distributed database is a concept which is can not be assign to the SQL
engine standards(AFAIK).Stored procedures,triggers are described in the SQL
92 or SQL 99 standards.
It's quite right, some  SQL DataBase engines(like Oracle,DB2,msSQL) have
implemented facilities for this.
Distributed database can be achieved,like example, using DISTRIBUTED
OBJECTS(let's say CORBA).In my understanding that means that MySQL already
can be used like distributed database.
Finally,What i wish to say is that distributed databases depend on us to be
achieved and not by the RDBMS.
Paul have right and i read very carefully him message:He said (very explicit
and without any doubt)that MySQL can not manage multiple tables which are
hosted on different servers with one single query.For me this is not a
reason to not use MySQL for distributed database system.
If i remember well, on the MySQL website is a link to a german company which
has develop a modules which treat multiple MySQL database(hosted on
different machine of course) to a logical one.

Best Regards,

Gelu

P.S.This is my opinion...if you consider that i'm wrong.
__
G.NET SOFTWARE COMPANY

Permanent e-mail address : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: gerald_clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Bruce Feist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: MySQL List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open
source


 No, it is not distributed.

 Bruce Feist wrote:

  Gelu Gogancea wrote:
 
  To anyone that *didn't see the forest because of the trees*.
 
  You already find it.
 
  Is MySQL really distributed, or just client-server?  I've seen no
  indication of distributed capabilities; I'm new to MySQL, so maybe I
  just haven't read enough.  But a distributed DBMS should be able to
  execute a single query which transparently accesses multiple database
  installations on multiple computers, possibly on multiple platforms.
  For instance,
 
  SELECT * from a, b ON a.id = b.id;
 
  where table 'a' is in a database on a Windows/2000 computer and table
  'b' is on a Linux machine.  The DBMS should keep track of which table
  is in which database on which computer, and its optimizer should be
  capable of figuring out an efficient way of resolving such queries.
 
  Can MySQL do that?
 
  Bruce Feist




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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread Gelu Gogancea
Hi,
- Original Message -
From: Brian Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MySQL List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open
source


 My experience may be limited but I don't know of any database that will
allow a
 single query to access mutiple database servers
Yes, it is.But when you must save some money, you are pushed to find
solutions with what it is on the market and which is optimal like
price/performance.
Some friends of mine was hasty to use like database support for their
application,Oracle9i...and was very disappointed.

Regards,

Gelu


 In fact, only a few seem to be able to even access mutiple databases on
the same server

 Frankly, I am still looking for a db that provides n way replication (this
may solve
 some of your wishes since a local copy could be maintain on your local
server)


 Paul DuBois ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 At 9:55 -0500 3/14/03, Bruce Feist wrote:
 Gelu Gogancea wrote:
 
 To anyone that *didn't see the forest because of the trees*.
 
 You already find it.
 
 Is MySQL really distributed, or just client-server?  I've seen no
 indication of distributed capabilities; I'm new to MySQL, so maybe I
 just haven't read enough.  But a distributed DBMS should be able to
 execute a single query which transparently accesses multiple
 database installations on multiple computers, possibly on multiple
 platforms. For instance,
 
 SELECT * from a, b ON a.id = b.id;
 
 where table 'a' is in a database on a Windows/2000 computer and
 table 'b' is on a Linux machine.  The DBMS should keep track of
 which table is in which database on which computer, and its
 optimizer should be capable of figuring out an efficient way of
 resolving such queries.
 
 Can MySQL do that?
 
 Bruce Feist
 
 No.  A given connection is a connection to a specific server.  You cannot
 access tables managed by different servers within a single query.
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: james [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 4:44 PM
 
 I am looking for a bona fide distributed database system, like Oracle
or
 SQLServer, but open source running on Linux.
 
 
 -
 Before posting, please check:
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http://lists.mysql.com/   (the list archive)
 
 To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To unsubscribe, e-mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 --
 Brian Johnson

 This is where my witty signature line would be if I bothered to edit this
line :)



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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread Bruce Feist
Gelu Gogancea wrote:

It's quite right, some  SQL DataBase engines(like Oracle,DB2,msSQL) have
implemented facilities for this.
Distributed database can be achieved,like example, using DISTRIBUTED
OBJECTS(let's say CORBA).In my understanding that means that MySQL already
can be used like distributed database.
Can be used like is not the same as is.  Similarly, by writing 
software in C, you can achieve SQL and use OS files like a relational 
database -- that doesn't mean that flat files *are* a relational database.

Finally,What i wish to say is that distributed databases depend on us to be
achieved and not by the RDBMS.
Yes, it can be done manually... but there are many advantages to having 
the distributed capabilities built into the RDBMS itself.  I've used 
such systems (Computer Associates' OpenIngres product), and when 
distributed capabilities are needed it's far superior to use a product 
designed for it.  Some examples of the improvements are:
1)  Distributed optimizer automatically takes advantage of changes to 
distribution structure
2)  Applications can be written which are independant of distribution 
structure
3)  Complexity of applications is reduced, resulting in lower 
development costs and fewer bugs
4)  Transaction management spanning databases on multiple computers

Paul have right and i read very carefully him message:He said (very explicit
and without any doubt)that MySQL can not manage multiple tables which are
hosted on different servers with one single query.For me this is not a
reason to not use MySQL for distributed database system.
It's one factor, though.  If we relax the definition of a distributed 
database system to be a client-server RDBMS which can be used to build 
an application which can combine information from queries to multiple 
databases on multiple computers, as it seems you wish to do, then yes, 
MySQL qualifies, and has its usual advantages of low cost, open source, 
and speed.  Depending on the project's needs, these may or may not be 
enough to counterbalance built-in distribution capabilities of true 
distributed RDBMSs.

If i remember well, on the MySQL website is a link to a german company which
has develop a modules which treat multiple MySQL database(hosted on
different machine of course) to a logical one.
If so, then using it in conjunction with MySQL would indeed create a 
distributed database management system.

Bruce Feist



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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread Brian McCain
Sorry, here's the link:
http://www.emicnetworks.com/products/products_eac_mysql.html


And the link to the MySQL newsletter issue:
http://www.mysql.com/newsletter/2003-02/a000125.html


Brian McCain

- Original Message -
From: Bruce Feist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MySQL List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open
source


 Gelu Gogancea wrote:

 It's quite right, some  SQL DataBase engines(like Oracle,DB2,msSQL) have
 implemented facilities for this.
 Distributed database can be achieved,like example, using DISTRIBUTED
 OBJECTS(let's say CORBA).In my understanding that means that MySQL
already
 can be used like distributed database.
 
 Can be used like is not the same as is.  Similarly, by writing
 software in C, you can achieve SQL and use OS files like a relational
 database -- that doesn't mean that flat files *are* a relational database.

 Finally,What i wish to say is that distributed databases depend on us to
be
 achieved and not by the RDBMS.
 
 Yes, it can be done manually... but there are many advantages to having
 the distributed capabilities built into the RDBMS itself.  I've used
 such systems (Computer Associates' OpenIngres product), and when
 distributed capabilities are needed it's far superior to use a product
 designed for it.  Some examples of the improvements are:
 1)  Distributed optimizer automatically takes advantage of changes to
 distribution structure
 2)  Applications can be written which are independant of distribution
 structure
 3)  Complexity of applications is reduced, resulting in lower
 development costs and fewer bugs
 4)  Transaction management spanning databases on multiple computers

 Paul have right and i read very carefully him message:He said (very
explicit
 and without any doubt)that MySQL can not manage multiple tables which are
 hosted on different servers with one single query.For me this is not a
 reason to not use MySQL for distributed database system.
 
 It's one factor, though.  If we relax the definition of a distributed
 database system to be a client-server RDBMS which can be used to build
 an application which can combine information from queries to multiple
 databases on multiple computers, as it seems you wish to do, then yes,
 MySQL qualifies, and has its usual advantages of low cost, open source,
 and speed.  Depending on the project's needs, these may or may not be
 enough to counterbalance built-in distribution capabilities of true
 distributed RDBMSs.

 If i remember well, on the MySQL website is a link to a german company
which
 has develop a modules which treat multiple MySQL database(hosted on
 different machine of course) to a logical one.
 
 If so, then using it in conjunction with MySQL would indeed create a
 distributed database management system.

 Bruce Feist



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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-14 Thread Brian McCain
This product was mentioned recently in the MySQL newsletter and in a MySQL
press release. From the company's description of it:

EAC uses clustering technology with a unique group communication
replication technology, which provides the consistency of synchronous
replication at the speed of asynchronous replication, with no decrease of
overall performance. EAC combines multiple physical SQL databases, working
as one logical, highly available database. It takes full advantage of
available resources and balances the workload between clustered databases.

It's not free, but they've got a free evaluation version, and it looks like
it might do what you're looking for. If anyone has used this product, I for
one would be really interested in hearing any feedback on it.

Brian McCain

- Original Message -
From: Bruce Feist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MySQL List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open
source


 Gelu Gogancea wrote:

 It's quite right, some  SQL DataBase engines(like Oracle,DB2,msSQL) have
 implemented facilities for this.
 Distributed database can be achieved,like example, using DISTRIBUTED
 OBJECTS(let's say CORBA).In my understanding that means that MySQL
already
 can be used like distributed database.
 
 Can be used like is not the same as is.  Similarly, by writing
 software in C, you can achieve SQL and use OS files like a relational
 database -- that doesn't mean that flat files *are* a relational database.

 Finally,What i wish to say is that distributed databases depend on us to
be
 achieved and not by the RDBMS.
 
 Yes, it can be done manually... but there are many advantages to having
 the distributed capabilities built into the RDBMS itself.  I've used
 such systems (Computer Associates' OpenIngres product), and when
 distributed capabilities are needed it's far superior to use a product
 designed for it.  Some examples of the improvements are:
 1)  Distributed optimizer automatically takes advantage of changes to
 distribution structure
 2)  Applications can be written which are independant of distribution
 structure
 3)  Complexity of applications is reduced, resulting in lower
 development costs and fewer bugs
 4)  Transaction management spanning databases on multiple computers

 Paul have right and i read very carefully him message:He said (very
explicit
 and without any doubt)that MySQL can not manage multiple tables which are
 hosted on different servers with one single query.For me this is not a
 reason to not use MySQL for distributed database system.
 
 It's one factor, though.  If we relax the definition of a distributed
 database system to be a client-server RDBMS which can be used to build
 an application which can combine information from queries to multiple
 databases on multiple computers, as it seems you wish to do, then yes,
 MySQL qualifies, and has its usual advantages of low cost, open source,
 and speed.  Depending on the project's needs, these may or may not be
 enough to counterbalance built-in distribution capabilities of true
 distributed RDBMSs.

 If i remember well, on the MySQL website is a link to a german company
which
 has develop a modules which treat multiple MySQL database(hosted on
 different machine of course) to a logical one.
 
 If so, then using it in conjunction with MySQL would indeed create a
 distributed database management system.

 Bruce Feist



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Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-13 Thread james
To anyone that cares

I am looking for a bona fide distributed database system, like Oracle or
SQLServer, but open source running on Linux. I have found one, Backplane,
but as I understand it it is used for BSD Unix. If anyone can help it would
be much appreciated.

tx Jimmy the hat



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Re: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source

2003-03-13 Thread Gelu Gogancea
To anyone that *didn't see the forest because of the trees*.

You already find it.

Regards,

Gelu
_
G.NET SOFTWARE COMPANY

Permanent e-mail address : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: james [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 4:44 PM
Subject: Looking for a bona fide distributed database that is open source


 To anyone that cares

 I am looking for a bona fide distributed database system, like Oracle or
 SQLServer, but open source running on Linux. I have found one, Backplane,
 but as I understand it it is used for BSD Unix. If anyone can help it
would
 be much appreciated.

 tx Jimmy the hat



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