Re: [mythtv-users] Cost of MythTV Machines -- tangential to topic -- PVR-150
Thanks much. On 1/23/06, H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mind me asking -- what Distro and did you update your Hauppauge WinTV-150 drivers/firmware? I foobared my card by improperly updating the firmware (using yum -- not the method prescribed by Video4Linux ). Now my machine fails to recognize the card. I suspect that updating the firmware of an unrecognized card will be a challenge, but I found drivers/firmware at V4L and am wondering if I'm on the right path. Thanks for any help you might offer. Preston On 1/23/06, John Biundo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Wood wrote: With some recent discussion here about CPUs and costs I wonder what the average cost of a MythTV machine might be. I bet this is the most common question for those considering jumping into mythtv. I certainly wondered, and found it hard to really pin down what an adequate machine would be. I ended up establishing a budget, which I thought was a bit on the generous side, and just purchasing to that budget (well, going over a *little* ;-). I ended up spending around $850 including shipping and tax for all-new components. My system has an AMD64 3200+ (venice core), Asus A8N-E mobo, Antec Overture II, PVR-150, GeForce 5200 video card, 512MB Ram, 200GB Seagate Sata drive. I figured for an extra $100, I'd buy in the sweet spot for CPUs, which was the biggest cost driver (I could have saved around $100 for a cheaper but adequate CPU and corresponding mobo). Hard to figure how I could have saved much more than that on new components (maybe another $25 on a cheaper disk drive, but c'mon!). All this was from newegg, which was within +/- 5% of the lowest on-line cost around. I'm generally happy with it, though the Overture is noisier than I wanted (which I would have seen if I'd done more research on it; I'm still hopeful of being able to quiet it when I finally turn my attention there). I'm also having an oddball problem which may still turn out to be hardware related, so I'm not 100% ready to recommend this combination yet. Anyway, I wanted to say that this topic is probably extremely valuable for newcomers, and hopefully is something that can get folded into the wiki (I know there's been a lot of recent talk about personal profiles, and this data would fit nicely. I know there's a mythtv hardware database out there, and it's an OK resource, but it's missing pricing information, and doesn't seem to be all that active/current. Just my .02. john ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Cost of MythTV Machines -- tangential to topic -- PVR-150
The firmware of the pvr cards is uploaded to the card whenever the ivtv driver is loaded if I am not mistaken. Certainly, the firmware is not resident in any sort of flash ram on the card. Just getting hold of and using the correct firmware should solve the problem in this case. Have a look at ivtvdriver.org, that should sort you out. Honestly, I mistakenly thought that firmware was sometype of ram or eeprom. Yours is good news. Thanks! On 1/23/06, Darren Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/23/06, H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mind me asking -- what Distro and did you update your Hauppauge WinTV-150 drivers/firmware? I foobared my card by improperly updating the firmware (using yum -- not the method prescribed by Video4Linux ). Now my machine fails to recognize the card. I suspect that updating the firmware of an unrecognized card will be a challenge, but I found drivers/firmware at V4L and am wondering if I'm on the right path. Thanks for any help you might offer. Preston The firmware of the pvr cards is uploaded to the card whenever the ivtv driver is loaded if I am not mistaken. Certainly, the firmware is not resident in any sort of flash ram on the card. Just getting hold of and using the correct firmware should solve the problem in this case. Have a look at ivtvdriver.org, that should sort you out. /drdaz ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Cost of MythTV Machines -- tangential to topic -- PVR-150
Do you mind me asking -- what Distro and did you update your Hauppauge WinTV-150 drivers/firmware? I foobared my card by improperly updating the firmware (using yum -- not the method prescribed by Video4Linux ). Now my machine fails to recognize the card. I suspect that updating the firmware of an unrecognized card will be a challenge, but I found drivers/firmware at V4L and am wondering if I'm on the right path. Thanks for any help you might offer. Preston On 1/23/06, John Biundo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Wood wrote: With some recent discussion here about CPUs and costs I wonder what the average cost of a MythTV machine might be. I bet this is the most common question for those considering jumping into mythtv. I certainly wondered, and found it hard to really pin down what an adequate machine would be. I ended up establishing a budget, which I thought was a bit on the generous side, and just purchasing to that budget (well, going over a *little* ;-). I ended up spending around $850 including shipping and tax for all-new components. My system has an AMD64 3200+ (venice core), Asus A8N-E mobo, Antec Overture II, PVR-150, GeForce 5200 video card, 512MB Ram, 200GB Seagate Sata drive. I figured for an extra $100, I'd buy in the sweet spot for CPUs, which was the biggest cost driver (I could have saved around $100 for a cheaper but adequate CPU and corresponding mobo). Hard to figure how I could have saved much more than that on new components (maybe another $25 on a cheaper disk drive, but c'mon!). All this was from newegg, which was within +/- 5% of the lowest on-line cost around. I'm generally happy with it, though the Overture is noisier than I wanted (which I would have seen if I'd done more research on it; I'm still hopeful of being able to quiet it when I finally turn my attention there). I'm also having an oddball problem which may still turn out to be hardware related, so I'm not 100% ready to recommend this combination yet. Anyway, I wanted to say that this topic is probably extremely valuable for newcomers, and hopefully is something that can get folded into the wiki (I know there's been a lot of recent talk about personal profiles, and this data would fit nicely. I know there's a mythtv hardware database out there, and it's an OK resource, but it's missing pricing information, and doesn't seem to be all that active/current. Just my .02. john ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Miserable time installing Mythtv
.So far as I know, this should cover it: # yum install ivtv-kmdl-$kver ivtv ivtv-firmware ivtv-firmware-audio Just use the ATrpms stable repo though, not the testing one. Not pleased with the result here... the card has disappeared from the system. Did this update the firmware? Anyway to get the old firmware back onto the card? On 1/18/06, Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 18 January 2006 18:38, H P Ladds wrote: Hey Mythtv-users, I have been trying to follow Jarod's HOWTO to install Mythtv for about a 2 weeks+ now. No luck! Argh!Jarod's doc is in need of some love. I know that at least some parts (esp. ivtv) are sorely outdated now... First I started with Fedora Core 3, Asus AV8 w/AMD64 3500+, Bt878 based card. Couldn't get Mythtv to tune in stations, but everthing else seemed to work great. Even TVtime worked great. Now I'm working with Fedora Core 4, Asus P2B-D w/two Pentium III 600s, and a Hauppauge 150 -- absolutely no luck this time; my machine doesn't seem to recognize the WinTV -150. I switched to the Hauppauge WinTV 150 because the Hauppauges seem to be popular with the posters here, but Fedora Core 4 is not recognizing the WinTV 150 card. Using rpm to install the WinTV 150 drivers leaves me searching the net for dependencies. Any suggestions on how to install the drivers using yum?So far as I know, this should cover it:# yum install ivtv-kmdl-$kver ivtv ivtv-firmware ivtv-firmware-audioJust use the ATrpms stable repo though, not the testing one. I believe most of my difficulties center around using yum and apt-get. I'm just understanding how to use them, but it seems as though the two are related. Do they both use the same repos? Do I need to run apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade to proper run yum?apt and yum are two very similar dependency resolver/package installer tools(as is smart). They can use many of the same repositories, if both apt and yum metadata are provided (and smart can use both apt and yum metadata, amongothers). Just pick one or the other and stick with it. Once you have theright repositories configured, just yum|apt-get|smart install package and package (or packages) should get installed with all their dependencies.--Jarod Wilson[EMAIL PROTECTED]___ mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.orghttp://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Miserable time installing Mythtv
Hey Mythtv-users, I have been trying to follow Jarod's HOWTO to install Mythtv for about a 2 weeks+ now. No luck! Argh! First I started with Fedora Core 3, Asus AV8 w/AMD64 3500+, Bt878 based card. Couldn't get Mythtv to tune in stations, but everthing else seemed to work great. Even TVtime worked great. Now I'm working with Fedora Core 4, Asus P2B-D w/two Pentium III 600s, and a Hauppauge 150 -- absolutely no luck this time; my machine doesn't seem to recognize the WinTV -150. I switched to the Hauppauge WinTV 150 because the Hauppauges seem to be popular with the posters here, but Fedora Core 4 is not recognizing the WinTV 150 card. Using rpm to install the WinTV 150 drivers leaves me searching the net for dependencies. Any suggestions on how to install the drivers using yum? I believe most of my difficulties center around using yum and apt-get. I'm just understanding how to use them, but it seems as though the two are related. Do they both use the same repos? Do I need to run apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade to proper run yum? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Miserable time installing Mythtv
Thanks for all you work! Thanks for clearing up the apt | yum question, and pointing me in the right direction. Thanks Again, PrestonOn 1/18/06, Jarod Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 18 January 2006 18:38, H P Ladds wrote: Hey Mythtv-users, I have been trying to follow Jarod's HOWTO to install Mythtv for about a 2 weeks+ now. No luck! Argh!Jarod's doc is in need of some love. I know that at least some parts (esp. ivtv) are sorely outdated now... First I started with Fedora Core 3, Asus AV8 w/AMD64 3500+, Bt878 based card. Couldn't get Mythtv to tune in stations, but everthing else seemed to work great. Even TVtime worked great. Now I'm working with Fedora Core 4, Asus P2B-D w/two Pentium III 600s, and a Hauppauge 150 -- absolutely no luck this time; my machine doesn't seem to recognize the WinTV -150. I switched to the Hauppauge WinTV 150 because the Hauppauges seem to be popular with the posters here, but Fedora Core 4 is not recognizing the WinTV 150 card. Using rpm to install the WinTV 150 drivers leaves me searching the net for dependencies. Any suggestions on how to install the drivers using yum?So far as I know, this should cover it:# yum install ivtv-kmdl-$kver ivtv ivtv-firmware ivtv-firmware-audioJust use the ATrpms stable repo though, not the testing one. I believe most of my difficulties center around using yum and apt-get. I'm just understanding how to use them, but it seems as though the two are related. Do they both use the same repos? Do I need to run apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade to proper run yum?apt and yum are two very similar dependency resolver/package installer tools(as is smart). They can use many of the same repositories, if both apt and yum metadata are provided (and smart can use both apt and yum metadata, amongothers). Just pick one or the other and stick with it. Once you have theright repositories configured, just yum|apt-get|smart install package and package (or packages) should get installed with all their dependencies.--Jarod Wilson[EMAIL PROTECTED]___ mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.orghttp://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] mythtv-suite drivers (was: (no subject))
Axel, thank you for your work; it'svery helpful! While I was referring to drivers, I was also referringto accommodations such as scripts that might assist with tuning-in channels. As a noob, I lack the vocabulary toprecisely express my thoughts. And, again, Thank You! On 1/13/06, Axel Thimm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 01:25:26PM -0500, H P Ladds wrote: I used the ATrpms mythtv-suite package to install.Maybe Myth-suite doesn't accommodate Bt878 card/chipset?mythtv-suite only installs all non-driver bits. Drivers have to biinstalled (if needed) seperately.--Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net ___mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] (no subject)
Hey All, Any help in isolating this problem would be great. I can watch live TV with TVtime. Mythtv will not tune-in channels. Mythtv seems to be set up correctly as the channels appear to change and the channel descriptions correctly indicate the show which is currently broadcast. I use an Over The Air Antenna and watch on my monitor. Shouldn't Mythtv be able to deliver pictures if TVtime can? Thanks, Preston ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] TVtime delivers picture, Mythtv doesn't
On 1/13/06, H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey All, Any help in isolating this problem would be great. I can watch live TV with TVtime. Mythtv will not tune-in channels. Mythtv seems to be set up correctly as the channels appear to change and the channel descriptions correctly indicate the show which is currently broadcast. I use an Over The Air Antenna and watch on my monitor. Shouldn't Mythtv be able to deliver pictures if TVtime can? Thanks, Preston ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Tvtime shows picture. Mythtv does not
Hey All, Any help in isolating this problem would be great. I can watch live TV with TVtime. Mythtv will not tune-in channels. Mythtv seems to be set up correctly as the channels appear to change and the channel descriptions correctly indicate the show which is currently broadcast. I use an Over The Air Antenna and watch on my monitor. Shouldn't Mythtv be able to deliver pictures if TVtime can? Thanks, Preston ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] (no subject)
Richard, Thank you. 1) I don't have ivtv-tune installed; however, I don't use Conextent's CX23415/CX23416 chips. I DO user their Bt878 chipset. From what I've briefly read, IVTV is not for use with BT878. Should I install it anyway? 2) Nor do I have /etc/conf.d/mythbackend; however, my backend seems to be running well. Interestingly, I don't have ivtv, or xawtv on my FC#3 machine. Makes me wonder how TVtime runs at all -- on bttv modules perhaps? I used the ATrpms mythtv-suite package to install. Maybe Myth-suite doesn't accommodate Bt878 card/chipset? On 1/13/06, Rickard Borgmäster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H P Ladds wrote: Hey All, Any help in isolating this problem would be great. I can watch live TV with TVtime. Mythtv will not tune-in channels. Mythtv seems to be set up correctly as the channels appear to change and the channel descriptions correctly indicate the show which is currently broadcast. I use an Over The Air Antenna and watch on my monitor. Shouldn't Mythtv be able to deliver pictures if TVtime can? 1) Do you have the ivtv-tune utility installed? (in case you use ivtv) 2) Have you checked /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log for channel changing problems? Make sure MYTH_VERBOSE is set to channel in /etc/conf.d/mythbackend. Best regards Rickard Borgmäster ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] -[S]- mythtvsetup on debian (ubuntu) missing
I have a suggestion, but I'm a noob. So I'll phrase it as a question : Why not use the locate command to search for Mythtv? Mythtv is bundled with Ubuntu? Wow! On 1/12/06, Raphael Pooser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Biundo wrote: Bret Schuhmacher wrote: You sure? Do Find / -name mythtv-setup Should be at /usr/bin/mythtv-setup. That's where mine is. Here's what's installed: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# apt-cache policy mythtv mythtv: Installed: 0.18.1-5 Candidate: 0.18.1-5 Version table: *** 0.18.1-5 0 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/multiverse Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users If you really don't find it after what these guys have suggested, you might want to uninstall it with a purge. That removes all related config files as well as compiled binaries from local repositories. apt-get remove purge mythtv something along those lines just man apt-get. reinstalling from source after that once you're sure everything is gone will probably fix the prob. Maybe you accidentally have a nonexecutable file called mythtv-setup somehwere, or you need to mark mythtv-setup as executable for some reason? Just thinking out loud. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Static, static, static on every channel
Installing Mythtv for the first time -- G. 1st Problem (as indicated by my mythbackend error messages below) seems to be that I don't have the correct encoding set up or the correct codec for my ATI Wonder VE card: 2006-01-11 13:23:35.164 Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 Unknown video codec 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 Please go into the TV Settings, Recording Profiles and 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 setup the four 'Software Encoders' profiles. 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 Assuming RTjpeg for now. 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 NVR: Error, unknown audio codec 2006-01-11 13:24:16.996 Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None 2nd problem (as indicated by mythfrontend error messages): I don't have a remote, so I didn't even try to set up lirc. Is that the problem? 2006-01-11 13:49:41.198 mythfrontend version: 0.18.2.20051227-1 www.mythtv.org 2006-01-11 13:49:41.198 Enabled verbose msgs : important general 2006-01-11 13:49:41.470 Switching to square mode (G.A.N.T.) 2006-01-11 13:49:41.899 Registering Internal as a media playback plugin. mythtv: could not connect to socket mythtv: No such file or directory lirc_init failed for mythtv, see preceding messages Anyhelp appreciated, ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Static, static, static on every channel
On 1/11/06, Wendy Seltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/11/06, H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Installing Mythtv for the first time -- G. 1st Problem (as indicated by my mythbackend error messages below) seems to be that I don't have the correct encoding set up or the correct codec for my ATI Wonder VE card: 2006-01-11 13:23:35.164 Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 Unknown video codec 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 Please go into the TV Settings, Recording Profiles and 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 setup the four 'Software Encoders' profiles. 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 Assuming RTjpeg for now. 2006-01-11 13:23:35.224 NVR: Error, unknown audio codec 2006-01-11 13:24:16.996 Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None I think these are harmless error messages (not in front of the box right now, but I know at least the '...video codec' is). You can set up the profiles under Settings -TV Do you get a picture with xawtv? You might have to tell the card PAL/NTSC, easily configured in xawtv. --Wendy -- http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/ Can't get xawtv to run, but tvtime (FC#3) works like a charm. Truly it seems as if my capture card is not receiving a signal. Everything else seems to be great: listing are fine, channels change, etc. Oddly I even occasionally get a picture if I run tvtime prior to running Mythtv. The picture is only of the last station viewed with Tvtime. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?
Would it read DENIED and thank you for your $100,000.00 application fee? Or is that a bogus tale I heard about the cost of application. On 1/11/06, Joe Votour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- H P Ladds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cable companies will wind up killing shooting themselves in the foot if they're not careful. IPTV over DSL using MPEG-4 is steadily catching up. Will IPTV help us? The consortium of content producers (CableLabs) will still demand that the content be encrypted. Linux and Open Source need not apply for approval? Still, I'm with you, someone shot has themselves in the foot. The content producers just handed control of a large portion of their distribution channel to Microsoft -- I wish them the best of luck in trying to get it back. snip You've got the purpose of CableLabs confused. When they're not accepting kickbacks, charging a fortune for product certification, and constantly changing their specifications without incrementing version numbers, they are supposed to be the unified voice of the cable operators. They have nothing to do with the content producers. IPTV is not subject to CableLabs approval, at least not in it's current incarnation. In fact, nothing is really subject to CableLabs approval (see the number of uncertified DOCSIS 1.0 cable modems about five years ago), but if you don't get your products CableLabs certified, then you likely won't be allowed to bid on contracts put forth by the cable operators. (Yes, I dislike CableLabs, and I don't hide it. In my view, they really are an incompetent and corrupt organization.) That said, open source hardware or software will never get CableLabs approval. CableLabs reserves the right to revoke encryption keys on devices if they are compromised (and I'm surprised they didn't revoke Motorola's keys when a bunch of their modems were cracked - but, Motorola is one of the key players in CableLabs). CableLabs is now much more open than it used to be - previously the submission documents required membership to view, but they are now freely available on the CableLabs website. These documents show some of the requirements for security that CableCARD will have to meet: http://www.opencable.com/downloads/Host_2.0_DCAA.pdf http://www.opencable.com/downloads/CHILA.pdf From the second document: As to each of the Host Devices made under this Agreement, Licensee covenants to CableLabs as follows: (i) The Host Device, at the time manufactured, contains no integrated circuit, ROM, RAM, software or other device or functionality that: (1) enables copying or recording of Controlled Content, other than as permitted by the Compliance Rules or (2) interferes with or disables the ability of a Cable Operator to communicate with or disable a CableCARD or services being transmitted through a CableCARD. (ii) At the time of manufacture, it will maintain control of content copies consistent with copy control instructions or the encryption mode indicator bits transmitted with digital signals as specified in the OpenCable Specifications. (iii) At the time of manufacture, it is designed to effectively frustrate tampering and reverse engineering directed towards defeating copy protection requirements in accordance with the Robustness Rules. (iv) At the time of manufacture, it will not transmit or decode Controlled Content received from the cable television transmission without proper authorization from the Cable Operator. (v) As used in this section 9.2(c), at the time of manufacture shall mean at the time of manufacture of the Host Device and shall also include, but is not limited to, any subsequent modifications, upgrades, downloads, modules, plug-ins, or attachments to such Host Device made by or at the direction of Licensee or its Affiliates, or otherwise specifically promoted, marketed, distributed by or at the direction of Licensee or its Affiliates. (vi) Licensee shall not service any licensed product that it determines to have been modified after manufacture to be non-Compliant. End of CableLabs document So, in short, Open Source will get the big red DENIED stamp on CableCARD. Our only hope is reverse engineering outside of North America where the patents and DMCA don't apply. -- Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
