Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 07:10 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 01:16:49PM +0200, Marius Schrecker wrote: > > I would also love to know how to get this to work in Linux. It's not so > > much putting the disk to sleep as keeping it there. I've never managed to > > get a HD to powerdown (using hdparm) for more than half a second without > > being woken up again. :( > > If you are using a journalled filesystem (virtually anything other than > ext2) then you need to mount using the noatime option so that the > journal flushes don't trigger atime updates. The advice here is fine - mounting noatime reduces the writes that are generated to the disk (and in many cases people will never ever notice that atime is missing - its a relatively specialised requirement). However this has nothing to do with journalling. The journal is outside the filesystem (even on very old ext3 where the journal exists as a special visible file the atime updates didn't apply to it), so journalling does not affect atime flushes. However there is a load of standard system activity which will result in (say) a read of the (buffer cached) root directory of a filesystem - this is a read of the directory so now the directory atime has to be updated, resulting in a disk write. Thats why turning atime off is a good idea for machines that wish to power down the disks. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 01:16:49PM +0200, Marius Schrecker wrote: > I would also love to know how to get this to work in Linux. It's not so > much putting the disk to sleep as keeping it there. I've never managed to > get a HD to powerdown (using hdparm) for more than half a second without > being woken up again. :( If you are using a journalled filesystem (virtually anything other than ext2) then you need to mount using the noatime option so that the journal flushes don't trigger atime updates. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
Mike wrote: ... >http://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/stirling/computergeek/powersaving.html > Did you even read the post you "just found?" ;) AAh! sorry, That will teach me (not) to read posts in reverse order! ... one of lifes great mysteries solved! ;) Marius Registered Linux user ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
Ian Wrote: >it's not so much putting a machine into suspend mode that's difficult; >it's the selective power-down modes (i.e. HD poweroff) that are really >difficult to configure; when you want your machine to drop down to low >power consumption >without shutting it off. I would also love to know how to get this to work in Linux. It's not so much putting the disk to sleep as keeping it there. I've never managed to get a HD to powerdown (using hdparm) for more than half a second without being woken up again. :( Marius Registered Linux user ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 12:32 -0400, Ian Trider wrote: > > Windows seems to read the disk whenever it gets bored, and > > you have to trust that Microsoft decided that disk access was really > > necessary. > > And Linux doesn't? O.o > > I've found that it's far more aggressive at reading the disk when it's > not really necessary than Windows, making hd powerdown difficult to > configure at best. google for laptop mode. -- Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
On 7/30/05, flim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I must be missing something... I used to put my laptop (now in silicon > heaven) into suspend mode all the time. I was running SuSE 8.1 at the > time. I'm pretty sure I've done it with my desktop before now, but never > had the need. It's another one of those things that PowersaveD initiates, > but I'm not sure what other modules are necessary... > > Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Not really; SuSE does a lot better job of this than other distros but it's not so much putting a machine into suspend mode that's difficult; it's the selective power-down modes (i.e. HD poweroff) that are really difficult to configure; when you want your machine to drop down to low power consumption without shutting it off. -- Ian Trider [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (preferred) ICQ: 34119829 Y!, AIM: iantri1 ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
> Did you even read the post you "just found?" ;)
>
> In my post (
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/141854#141854 ), I
> recommended reading the whole page so people would see just how much
> control you have over power saving in Linux. Control = options =
> decisions to make. Windows = all decisions made for you (so hope it
> works the way you need).
Sorry, I hadn't read that thread -- I coincidentally found that page a
little while ago.
> Windows seems to read the disk whenever it gets bored, and
> you have to trust that Microsoft decided that disk access was really
> necessary.
And Linux doesn't? O.o
I've found that it's far more aggressive at reading the disk when it's
not really necessary than Windows, making hd powerdown difficult to
configure at best.
> Sorry for the rant. I just see so many people pining for "Microsoft
> Linux" anymore, I feel its important to note the difference. If you
> really want someone to make all the decisions for you, go with Windows
> (that's exactly why I have never recommended any friends, family, or
> acquaintances switch to Linux--they don't want or need to know how or
> why or have any reason to control any of it, they just want it to
> work).
For a long time, I wanted to fiddle with all the settings and toy
around with my machine. After a while, I just got sick of having to
spend an inordinate amount of time adjusting settings and playing with
things to make it work -- I just want it to work now so I can get on
with {working, enjoying my computer, etc.}. In this case, I find
Windows does a better job of making it Just Work(TM).
You are of course entitled to your opinions, and I understand them.
All my position on this topic is, it's nice to have things work
without wasting a lot of time playing with them.
--
Ian Trider
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (preferred)
ICQ: 34119829
Y!, AIM: iantri1
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Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
Ian Trider wrote: On 7/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am running Fedora Core 3 and am looking for instructions on setting-up my computer to go into a low-power mode (not suspend to hard drive) when I am not using MythTV. How would I do this (any links?)? Lucky you, I just found a page about this topic, which seems to be one of the Great Mysteries of Linux and one of those things that's always irritated me because it's so dead simple to do in Windows and so ing ridiculous under linux. :( http://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/stirling/computergeek/powersaving.html Did you even read the post you "just found?" ;) In my post ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/141854#141854 ), I recommended reading the whole page so people would see just how much control you have over power saving in Linux. Control = options = decisions to make. Windows = all decisions made for you (so hope it works the way you need). Basically, you can tell your hard drive to spin down, but that alone is probably not going to do what you want. Since you're constantly running processes on your computer (whether Linux or Windows computers), some of those processes--such as logging utilities and journaling filesystems and even simply modifying file access times on journaling or non-journaling filesystems--require almost constant disk writes. If you don't take that into account and tell your system to modify logging parameters when the disk spins down or tell it how and when to flush buffers to disk or to ignore writing access times to the filesystem, you could even get higher power usage with the spin-down than without. On Linux, you can explicitly power off the monitor with software (as opposed to setting a timeout on a screensaver and waiting), explicitly throttle the CPU (as opposed to letting it scale performance based on usage--which, TTBOMK, is the only option for AMD in Windows; whereas Intel only uses the lowest CPU speed when on battery), and--as implied above--control usage of the disk. When appropriate decisions for each of these (and other power saving methods) is made, you can maximize power savings for your particular usage of the system (no two systems are used exactly the same way). On Windows, however, you have no control over these and many other settings. Windows seems to read the disk whenever it gets bored, and you have to trust that Microsoft decided that disk access was really necessary. You have to assume that Microsoft chose the best way to control all the power settings for you. Since there are maybe 5 settings (things like "Best Performance" and "Maximum Power Savings", IIRC), then I'm sure they've chosen the perfect settings for at least 5 people out there... Sorry for the rant. I just see so many people pining for "Microsoft Linux" anymore, I feel its important to note the difference. If you really want someone to make all the decisions for you, go with Windows (that's exactly why I have never recommended any friends, family, or acquaintances switch to Linux--they don't want or need to know how or why or have any reason to control any of it, they just want it to work). If you want control over your hardware and software, Linux is the way to go. Mike ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
I must be missing something... I used to put my laptop (now in silicon heaven) into suspend mode all the time. I was running SuSE 8.1 at the time. I'm pretty sure I've done it with my desktop before now, but never had the need. It's another one of those things that PowersaveD initiates, but I'm not sure what other modules are necessary... Have I got the wrong end of the stick? flim On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 05:55:39 +0100, Ian Trider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 7/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am running Fedora Core 3 and am looking for instructions on setting-up my computer to go into a low-power mode (not suspend to hard drive) when I am not using MythTV. How would I do this (any links?)? Lucky you, I just found a page about this topic, which seems to be one of the Great Mysteries of Linux and one of those things that's always irritated me because it's so dead simple to do in Windows and so ing ridiculous under linux. :( http://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/stirling/computergeek/powersaving.html -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
On 7/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am running Fedora Core 3 and am looking for instructions on setting-up my > computer to go into a low-power mode (not suspend to hard drive) when I am > not using MythTV. How would I do this (any links?)? Lucky you, I just found a page about this topic, which seems to be one of the Great Mysteries of Linux and one of those things that's always irritated me because it's so dead simple to do in Windows and so ing ridiculous under linux. :( http://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/stirling/computergeek/powersaving.html -- Ian Trider [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (preferred) ICQ: 34119829 Y!, AIM: iantri1 ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Putting the Computer to sleep (low-power)
I am running Fedora Core 3 and am looking for instructions on setting-up my computer to go into a low-power mode (not suspend to hard drive) when I am not using MythTV. How would I do this (any links?)? Thanks!! Sam Krupa ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
