Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Hi all, jus a quick update_ On 1/15/06, Jens Baumeister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. Thanks for all the info - urgent family matters have been keeping me busy for the last couple of days, but I expect to be able to write something up for the Wiki within the next 2 or 3 days. (Hopefully before 0.19 comes out.) Jens ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Michael T. Dean wrote: Jens Baumeister wrote: since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. However, while I do know how things are currently working, I'm not 100% sure about the planned state for the 0.19 release. (Esp. from the user perspective: What setting are planned, etc.) I'd be grateful for any pointers to resources (bug tickets, list threads) I can mine for further information. That way, we'd have a single place to point people to when the question comes up again. I'll throw out a couple of topics that should probably be discussed and see if it gets the ball rolling. Others, please add topics and/or references I forgot. Here's one you forgot: Jobs are not run on LiveTV. http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/8201 Mike ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Jonathan Tidmore wrote: You're not contributing anything positive to society, so shut it. Keep your poison to yourself. There's enough shit out there; yours isn't needed. On 1/15/06, * Tom E. Craddock Jr.* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Andersen wrote: On 1/15/06, Tom E. Craddock Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jens Baumeister wrote: Hi, since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists? Tom Yes, Tom, thats PRECISELY what he means. I thought that was clear from the simple concise english text of the original post. Not everyone has the time to wade thru three very active lists and the associated flame wars and unhelpfull posts *cough* to find the scattered nuggets of information and misinformation and filter out the pontification, pedastal poseing, and podium pounding. Thats why FAQs are done now isn't it? -- --JSA- So in addition to 3 different email lists that are either easily searched at goassamer-threads or with the MythTV search plugin for Firefox, the wiki at mythtv.org http://mythtv.org, AND the documentation at mythtv.org http://mythtv.org, and not too mention if people are using Knoppmyth, and Xbox frontend, a Hauppauge MVP and the numerous forums/mailing lists/website they all enable, ANOTHER site with a NEW FAQ is really the best way to do this? Wow, no wonder no one can search the achives...they are too busy having to wade thru everyones 'good intentions'. Oh, and my first post was helpful, I just didn spell it all out like I just did above; I had hoped people were intelligent enough to figure that all out. Tom ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users -- -J Wow, its so nice to see that the members on this list have such a wide vocabulary. Tom ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On Monday 16 January 2006 00:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:29:39 -0500 From: Steve Adeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page ...and your point is...? If you were trying to say, there's already a centralized place where this info can go, I never said there wasn't, and I don't think anyone involved in this discussion thought there wasn't, or didn't know where it already was. If it was and the information Jens wants to write about is already there, then a more-specific URL would have been in order. If it's I have refuted everything you've said with a single pithy one-liner, then you've missed the point entirely---which was my attempt to defend Jens (who'd volunteered to do a nice thing and was asking for suggestions that would let him to a better job more quickly) from pithy one-liner snipes that seemed to be trying to discourage him from doing just that. I'm going to assume that I've just misunderstood you (and, for that matter, that everyone, including me, simply misunderstood the intent of Craddock's original message), and let's move on. Let's please not let one ambiguous brief response get in the way of someone trying to make things nicer for everyone. (And -way big kudos- to Michael Dean for that impressive list of URLs! That's a really great set of topics, all in one message, and I hope it all winds up in Jens' FAQ---should stamp out of a lot of random questions all in one shot, especially when 19 is released and everyone who hasn't been reading -dev and maybe not even -users tries it and would otherwise get really confused... :) it wasn't a direct reply to your email but to the thread, more so a reminder that the new MythTV Wiki is up, and those who wish to support MythTV by writing helpful FAQ's etc should take advantage of it. The links and all that were posted are great information, and even if the Wiki entry is just a bunch of links to sources of information right now its still a great way to archive this information for further MythTV users. In all, anyone that has an issue and has found a solution are encouraged to make a writeup at the new Wiki to help any future MythTV users that may encounter the same issue. There is a hardware section, create a page for the piece of hardware such that someone, if not you, can write up a full page on getting said hardware setup for MythTV. As for the a LiveTV FAQ about the changes, Its a great idea, but also don't forget that there is a user manual, and this will need to be updated as well. I think we would all love to see both come to fruitition with what may well be a shortly upcoming 0.19 release. -- Steve ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Not everyone has the time to wade thru three very active lists and the associated flame wars and unhelpfull posts *cough* to find the scattered nuggets of information and misinformation and filter out the pontification, pedastal poseing, and podium pounding. Thats why FAQs are done now isn't it? i was under the impression that if a user wants to run svn then they are expected to at the very least be following the -commits mailing list. and it is strongly suggested that they also follow the -dev list. at least this is how it's been in the past so maybe this has changed but from the mythtv.org site it doesn't seem like it has: DO NOT use CVS if you have had any problems getting the last release to run. If you're using CVS, it's also a very good idea to subscribe to the commits list -- I often include update notes and warnings in the commit message. obviously we are just replacing cvs with svn now so i can't see why this policy would change. as for when .19 comes out i would expect that the official mythtv.org docs will be updated to reflect the new livetv system and the pitfalls associated with it. maybe the best way to contribute would be to help in updating the offical documentation for .19 instead of creating yet another FAQ. this is just how i see the situation so take my opinion with a grain of salt i guess. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page . the new MythTV Wiki is up, and those who wish to support MythTV by writing helpful FAQ's etc should take advantage of it. Is there a link to this wiki from the main page at www.mythtv.org? I couldn't find one. In my opinion, it would only make sense that's it's linked, and this ought to be considered the official wiki/FAQ for mythTV. The mailing lists are great, but they're not for everyone, especially because they aren't organized. But this wiki does need to start getting filled out a bit. I added a little bit to it yesterday, and I'll add more as I get a chance. winmail.dat___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On 1/17/06, Jake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i was under the impression that if a user wants to run svn then theyare expected to at the very least be following the -commits mailinglist.and it is strongly suggested that they also follow the -devlist.at least this is how it's been in the past so maybe this has changed but from the mythtv.org site it doesn't seem like it has:Once again this comes back to the issue (which has already been discussed in considerable detail) that for people who are getting started with SVN, there is a LOT of information digest at once. Something which provides a quick summary of what's going on surely can't be hurtful.After all, one could argue that we don't need any documentation at all, just refer to the mailing list :) DO NOT use CVS if you have had any problems getting the last releaseto run. If you're using CVS, it's also a very good idea to subscribeto the commits list -- I often include update notes and warnings in the commit message.obviously we are just replacing cvs with svn nowso i can't see why this policy would change.If this is referring to the last stable release, it's a little ironic considering the massive number of fixes the dev builds provide in respect to the problems in the last release. Ok sure, I can understand the over hassled devs already have enough on their hands than having to deal with more newbies coming in and going 'what the?'. Which is (I assume) part of the reason Jens suggested the FAQ in the first place. In an ideal world, we will have SVN newbies who constantly monitor the mailing lists and know exactly what's going on, and those who didn't wouldn't use the dev branch at all, or if they did they would be completely silent. This would be nice but I am not going to stake money on it anytime soon. as for when .19 comes out i would expect that the official mythtv.orgdocs will be updated to reflect the new livetv system and the pitfallsassociated with it.maybe the best way to contribute would be to helpin updating the offical documentation for .19 instead of creating yet another FAQ.this is just how i see the situation so take my opinionwith a grain of salt i guess.For all intents and purposes, at this stage it is much the same thing - some central, summarised resource for people to consult for the new changes. Whether it's called a FAQ, .19 documentation or the book of matthew, none of it will be truely definite until the .19 release is finalized. For this reason I'd lean towards a more unofficial and flexible document, which could be incorporated into official documentation later, but at the end of the day I don't really think it matters. Andy ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any event---yes, in addition to the archives. Searching archives is a poor substitute for organized information in a central place. The archives are huge (2400 messages/month! 14 meg/month!); poorly organized (threads often wander); and invariably contain large amounts of outdated information---by definition, most of it is old. snip Your entire post was spot on. Very well put! ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Nick wrote: On 16/01/06, Michael Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/16/06, John Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats why FAQs are done now isn't it? Good idea. Any single source of correct, concise and timely information is a bonus in my book. ii) the 'misinformation' that they may include (I've been put in that bracket too - only by trying to help out fellow users when useful information doesn't exist). I don't think a lot of the misinformation is written intentionally either, it's usually a user wanting to help a fellow user but not having the same level of comprehension as the devs. And often the 'misinformation' is not untrue, but just not applicable to the precise situation. The inclusion of the dvb modules in the kernel is one area which has competely up-ended the state of affairs which existed at say, kernel 2.6.4... Geoff ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On Jan 16, 2006, at 3:12 PM, R. G. Newbury wrote: And often the 'misinformation' is not untrue, but just not applicable to the precise situation. The inclusion of the dvb modules in the kernel is one area which has competely up-ended the state of affairs which existed at say, kernel 2.6.4... Get ready to be up-ended again:-( With the upcoming merger of the v4l and dvb kernel sections I suspect a lot more pain is in the works. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Hi, since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. However, while I do know how things are currently working, I'm not 100% sure about the planned state for the 0.19 release. (Esp. from the user perspective: What setting are planned, etc.) I'd be grateful for any pointers to resources (bug tickets, list threads) I can mine for further information. That way, we'd have a single place to point people to when the question comes up again. Jens ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Jens Baumeister wrote: Hi, since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. However, while I do know how things are currently working, I'm not 100% sure about the planned state for the 0.19 release. (Esp. from the user perspective: What setting are planned, etc.) I'd be grateful for any pointers to resources (bug tickets, list threads) I can mine for further information. That way, we'd have a single place to point people to when the question comes up again. Jens ___ You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists? Tom ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On 1/16/06, Tom E. Craddock Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jens Baumeister wrote: since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it.You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists?Actually, I wouldn't minding seeing this, or even a more overarching document addressing the general state of SVN for those who aren't avidly tracking myth development. True, all the information is out there on the mailing list and trac for you to find, but the problem is you actually need to be explicitly searching for it (or trawl through a LOT of information). LiveTV is one of the more obvious things to check up on, but issues such as recordings not being saved, transcoding acting up, obscure behaviour with scheduling and recording profiles (all recent or ongoing svn issues that have left a few scratching their heads) are a little harder to anticipate. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:21:16 -0500 From: Tom E. Craddock Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jens Baumeister wrote: Hi, since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. However, while I do know how things are currently working, I'm not 100% sure about the planned state for the 0.19 release. (Esp. from the user perspective: What setting are planned, etc.) I'd be grateful for any pointers to resources (bug tickets, list threads) I can mine for further information. That way, we'd have a single place to point people to when the question comes up again. Jens You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists? [Someone's volunteering to make the documentation better, and you're actively trying to discourage him? Why? Not to mention that this sort of documentation has to be written -sometime- as part of a user manual, right? Presumably the end state is for the way LiveTV operates to be documented somewhere, the proposed FAQ would be a good start at getting that written.] In any event---yes, in addition to the archives. Searching archives is a poor substitute for organized information in a central place. The archives are huge (2400 messages/month! 14 meg/month!); poorly organized (threads often wander); and invariably contain large amounts of outdated information---by definition, most of it is old. Further, it's never clear from any given message whether some later message might obsolete it---and it's often hard to tell, since it's very hard to prove a negative, e.g., that there -isn't- some other message/ thread that, if only you'd used a slightly different search term, you'd have found. People who don't also subscribe to all the lists may not know that there's been a discussion about something, hence won't know if they've used the wrong search term and failed to find it. Finally, even if you succeed in all that, searching through archives is very time consuming compared to just reading a web page---and the web page could have author(s) and a modification-date and a here are exactly the versions we're talking about and not these other versions over here and all sorts of other contextual data that would make using the information a whole lot easier. If information changes that obsoletes a wiki page, it's likely someone will update it. If an old thread gets obsoleted, it will -never- get updated, but it won't be obvious where the new information is. And regardless of whether you think that the information is theoretically available in the archives, it clearly isn't available enough in practice, or we wouldn't have exactly the problem that Jens is trying to solve---namely that the list is full of people asking the same questions about LiveTV over and over. That stuff is clearly already in the archives, and clearly not being found. He's proposing to save everybody a lot of time (the questioners, the answerers, those who read the list and have to wade past the same questions a lot), and I'd think that anyone who's offering to do this should be showered with candy and flowers, not made to justify his actions for a situation that's obviously chewing up peoples' time and leading to flamewars and hard feelings. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On 1/15/06, Tom E. Craddock Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jens Baumeister wrote: I'd be grateful for any pointers to resources (bug tickets, list threads) I can mine for further information. You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists? Since I'm explicitly doing this for public documentation , I don't think it's impolite to ask those in the community for a few pointers where to start. I thought somebody on the list might remember a useful thread or commit they read and give me a pointer like search for keyword xyz, because such a hint could speed up searching a bit. (E.g.: Perhaps there's a mail or a commit somewhere with a list of proposed Live TV features.) Feel free to ignore me if you can't or don't want to help me gathering info, but don't treat me like a Newbie barging in and demanding: I broke my mythbox, fix it for me NOW!, because I'm not doing this for myself - it's my way of trying to give a bit back to the community. Jens ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Jens Baumeister wrote: since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. However, while I do know how things are currently working, I'm not 100% sure about the planned state for the 0.19 release. (Esp. from the user perspective: What setting are planned, etc.) I'd be grateful for any pointers to resources (bug tickets, list threads) I can mine for further information. That way, we'd have a single place to point people to when the question comes up again. I'll throw out a couple of topics that should probably be discussed and see if it gets the ball rolling. Others, please add topics and/or references I forgot. (Since Jens is going to the trouble of writing up the info, we might as well help him find all of it. Doing so should be much easier than answering the same question 50 times on the list. :) Definitely should discuss things like: - playgroups (not really a LiveTV thing, but something else that's likely to confuse people moving to 0.19) http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7965 - the user can actually save the entire program (not just from the point he/she presses R--at least the part of the program that the user has watched in LiveTV) http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/786 - there is no longer a directory set aside for LiveTV (so people using a separate partition for LiveTV will no longer use the LiveTV partitions or will have to re-configure their systems). http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7780 - *all* shows the user sees in LiveTV are separate recordings. Therefore, if the user watches LiveTV through a show change, there will be 2 recordings created. Also, if the user channel surfs, he/she may create hundreds of LiveTV files. And, most importantly, the fact that this is nothing to worry about. - all LiveTV recordings are put in the LiveTV recording group http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7854 - setting to show or hide LiveTV recordings in All Recordings (by default hidden) http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/8047 and for MythWeb http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/8611 - autoexpire (no longer a system-wide setting option; it's always enabled, however--as always--you can specify autoexpire settings on a per-recording basis) -- short LiveTV recordings (less than 2 minutes) and their autoexpire policy -- long LiveTV recordings (more than 2 minutes) and their autoexpire policy http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7863 and http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/8047 - disk usage by LiveTV available in the autoexpire list http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/8609 - how to save a LiveTV recording (during LiveTV with R, and after the fact change recording group (and autoexpire setting?)) - references? - how to manually delete LiveTV recordings (and a note that there's no reason to do this--but telling people how will probably prevent a lot of arguments) http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/163500#163500 - if you jump back to the previous program in LiveTV, it goes to 5 seconds before the end and short recordings may have been autoexpired, so you may not see the channel surfs http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7838 and http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7866 - LiveTV recordings do not count towards Max Episodes count http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7863 - If there's no program data, Myth will create programs that end every half hour or at the beginning of the next program http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7923 - the fact that MythTV can record things on a schedule so you never have to watch LiveTV ;) That's all I can think of that users need to know (and a few things they don't need to know but might think they need to know). Mike ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On 1/15/06, Tom E. Craddock Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jens Baumeister wrote: Hi, since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists? Tom Yes, Tom, thats PRECISELY what he means. I thought that was clear from the simple concise english text of the original post. Not everyone has the time to wade thru three very active lists and the associated flame wars and unhelpfull posts *cough* to find the scattered nuggets of information and misinformation and filter out the pontification, pedastal poseing, and podium pounding. Thats why FAQs are done now isn't it? -- --JSA- ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On 1/16/06, John Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats why FAQs are done now isn't it? Good idea. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On Sunday 15 January 2006 16:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:21:16 -0500 From: Tom E. Craddock Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jens Baumeister wrote: Hi, since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. However, while I do know how things are currently working, I'm not 100% sure about the planned state for the 0.19 release. (Esp. from the user perspective: What setting are planned, etc.) I'd be grateful for any pointers to resources (bug tickets, list threads) I can mine for further information. That way, we'd have a single place to point people to when the question comes up again. Jens You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists? [Someone's volunteering to make the documentation better, and you're actively trying to discourage him? Why? Not to mention that this sort of documentation has to be written -sometime- as part of a user manual, right? Presumably the end state is for the way LiveTV operates to be documented somewhere, the proposed FAQ would be a good start at getting that written.] In any event---yes, in addition to the archives. Searching archives is a poor substitute for organized information in a central place. The archives are huge (2400 messages/month! 14 meg/month!); poorly organized (threads often wander); and invariably contain large amounts of outdated information---by definition, most of it is old. Further, it's never clear from any given message whether some later message might obsolete it---and it's often hard to tell, since it's very hard to prove a negative, e.g., that there -isn't- some other message/ thread that, if only you'd used a slightly different search term, you'd have found. People who don't also subscribe to all the lists may not know that there's been a discussion about something, hence won't know if they've used the wrong search term and failed to find it. Finally, even if you succeed in all that, searching through archives is very time consuming compared to just reading a web page---and the web page could have author(s) and a modification-date and a here are exactly the versions we're talking about and not these other versions over here and all sorts of other contextual data that would make using the information a whole lot easier. If information changes that obsoletes a wiki page, it's likely someone will update it. If an old thread gets obsoleted, it will -never- get updated, but it won't be obvious where the new information is. And regardless of whether you think that the information is theoretically available in the archives, it clearly isn't available enough in practice, or we wouldn't have exactly the problem that Jens is trying to solve---namely that the list is full of people asking the same questions about LiveTV over and over. That stuff is clearly already in the archives, and clearly not being found. He's proposing to save everybody a lot of time (the questioners, the answerers, those who read the list and have to wade past the same questions a lot), and I'd think that anyone who's offering to do this should be showered with candy and flowers, not made to justify his actions for a situation that's obviously chewing up peoples' time and leading to flamewars and hard feelings. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page -- Steve ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
On 16/01/06, Michael Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/16/06, John Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats why FAQs are done now isn't it? Good idea. Any single source of correct, concise and timely information is a bonus in my book. If detailed information on the (inner) workings of MythTV existed outside of the source I'm sure a lot of users could self-medicate and resolve or understand their MythTV problems. If a user such as Jens wants to spend _their own time_ writing such a resource, all credit to them for taking the initiative. A couple of the key problems with the fora and Google from the perspective of newer users include: i) the sheer volume of information to search through - it's sometimes not even immediately obvious what search terms you need to use in order to get the most fruitful results. ii) the 'misinformation' that they may include (I've been put in that bracket too - only by trying to help out fellow users when useful information doesn't exist). I don't think a lot of the misinformation is written intentionally either, it's usually a user wanting to help a fellow user but not having the same level of comprehension as the devs. I'm looking forward to the books to be released in the future on MythTV and hope they can provide some of the much desired information on some of the lesser documented features. Nick ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:29:39 -0500 From: Steve Adeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page ...and your point is...? If you were trying to say, there's already a centralized place where this info can go, I never said there wasn't, and I don't think anyone involved in this discussion thought there wasn't, or didn't know where it already was. If it was and the information Jens wants to write about is already there, then a more-specific URL would have been in order. If it's I have refuted everything you've said with a single pithy one-liner, then you've missed the point entirely---which was my attempt to defend Jens (who'd volunteered to do a nice thing and was asking for suggestions that would let him to a better job more quickly) from pithy one-liner snipes that seemed to be trying to discourage him from doing just that. I'm going to assume that I've just misunderstood you (and, for that matter, that everyone, including me, simply misunderstood the intent of Craddock's original message), and let's move on. Let's please not let one ambiguous brief response get in the way of someone trying to make things nicer for everyone. (And -way big kudos- to Michael Dean for that impressive list of URLs! That's a really great set of topics, all in one message, and I hope it all winds up in Jens' FAQ---should stamp out of a lot of random questions all in one shot, especially when 19 is released and everyone who hasn't been reading -dev and maybe not even -users tries it and would otherwise get really confused... :) ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Setting up an FAQ for LiveTV changes
John Andersen wrote: On 1/15/06, Tom E. Craddock Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jens Baumeister wrote: Hi, since the LiveTV changes seem to lead to questions again and again (and sometimes to flamewars), I volunteer to write an FAQ about it. You mean besides the archives at gossamer-threads for the -users, -dev, and -commit lists? Tom Yes, Tom, thats PRECISELY what he means. I thought that was clear from the simple concise english text of the original post. Not everyone has the time to wade thru three very active lists and the associated flame wars and unhelpfull posts *cough* to find the scattered nuggets of information and misinformation and filter out the pontification, pedastal poseing, and podium pounding. Thats why FAQs are done now isn't it? -- --JSA- So in addition to 3 different email lists that are either easily searched at goassamer-threads or with the MythTV search plugin for Firefox, the wiki at mythtv.org, AND the documentation at mythtv.org, and not too mention if people are using Knoppmyth, and Xbox frontend, a Hauppauge MVP and the numerous forums/mailing lists/website they all enable, ANOTHER site with a NEW FAQ is really the best way to do this? Wow, no wonder no one can search the achives...they are too busy having to wade thru everyones 'good intentions'. Oh, and my first post was helpful, I just didn spell it all out like I just did above; I had hoped people were intelligent enough to figure that all out. Tom ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
