Re: Free access to measurement network
So for my point of view, better solution is to push some law that ease access to the buildings for ISPs. 15.12.17 19:40, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu пише: > On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:47:42 -0500, Dovid Bender said: >> What kind of internet are these devices on? With Net Neutrality gone here >> in the US it would be a good way to measure certain services such as SIP to >> see which ISP's if any are tampering with packets. > > Given previous history, the answer will probably be "most of them". > > "The results are not inspiring. More than 129 million people are limited to a > single provider for broadband Internet access using the FCC definition of 25 > Mbps download and 3 Mbps upload. Out of those 129 million Americans, about 52 > million must obtain Internet access from a company that has violated network > neutrality protections in the past and continues to undermine the policy > today. > > In locations where subscribers have the benefit of limited competition, the > situation isn't much better. Among the 146 million Americans with the ability > to choose between two providers, 48 million Americans must choose between two > companies that have a record of violating network neutrality." > > https://muninetworks.org/content/177-million-americans-harmed-net-neutrality >
Re: Free access to measurement network
It's a consumer thing. If consumers wanted more options, they would be supporting those options with their wallets. They don't. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Max Tulyev" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 4:43:54 AM Subject: Re: Free access to measurement network So for my point of view, better solution is to push some law that ease access to the buildings for ISPs. 15.12.17 19:40, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu пише: > On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:47:42 -0500, Dovid Bender said: >> What kind of internet are these devices on? With Net Neutrality gone here >> in the US it would be a good way to measure certain services such as SIP to >> see which ISP's if any are tampering with packets. > > Given previous history, the answer will probably be "most of them". > > "The results are not inspiring. More than 129 million people are limited to a > single provider for broadband Internet access using the FCC definition of 25 > Mbps download and 3 Mbps upload. Out of those 129 million Americans, about 52 > million must obtain Internet access from a company that has violated network > neutrality protections in the past and continues to undermine the policy > today. > > In locations where subscribers have the benefit of limited competition, the > situation isn't much better. Among the 146 million Americans with the ability > to choose between two providers, 48 million Americans must choose between two > companies that have a record of violating network neutrality." > > https://muninetworks.org/content/177-million-americans-harmed-net-neutrality >
Re: Free access to measurement network
Mike, On Dec 16, 2017, 4:23 PM +0100, Mike Hammett , wrote: > It's a consumer thing. If consumers wanted more options, they would be > supporting those options with their wallets. They don’t. The report Valdis quoted said "More than 129 million people are limited to a single provider for broadband Internet access using the FCC definition of 25 Mbps download and 3 Mbps upload.” This suggests that consumers don’t have the option of supporting alternatives with their wallets. Regards, -drc
Re: Free access to measurement network
You been in contact with the guys at Samknows.com ? On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 at 15:09, Janusz Jezowicz wrote: > Hello, > > Feel free to shoot me down if you think I am posting against the rules of > this mailing list but I think it may be helpful for some guys here. > > We have over 1000 routers deployed across US/Canada in over 700 locations > and 130+ networks. Those routers can run network tests such as > traceroutes,pings,http tests and can be automated using API. > > I am happy to give out access to anyone on the list - free of charge (inc. > for commercial purposes). We are just interested in seeing what can be > built on top of it and have capacity now. > > Please send me an email off-list if you are interested or want more > information > > Thanks > > Janusz Jezowicz > Speedchecker Ltd > -- -- Martin Hepworth, CISSP Oxford, UK
Re: Free access to measurement network
I know what the report says and I'll stand by my statement. The consumers have voted for that with their wallets. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "David Conrad" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 9:58:19 AM Subject: Re: Free access to measurement network Mike, On Dec 16, 2017, 4:23 PM +0100, Mike Hammett , wrote: > It's a consumer thing. If consumers wanted more options, they would be > supporting those options with their wallets. They don’t. The report Valdis quoted said "More than 129 million people are limited to a single provider for broadband Internet access using the FCC definition of 25 Mbps download and 3 Mbps upload.” This suggests that consumers don’t have the option of supporting alternatives with their wallets. Regards, -drc
Re: Free access to measurement network
On 12/16/17, Mike Hammett wrote: > It's a consumer thing. If consumers wanted more options, they would be > supporting those options with their wallets. They don't. As far as I know, my options for >50Mb/s are comcast and verizon. https://www.broadbandmap.gov/ sez Please note: National Broadband Map data is from June 30, 2014 and is no longer being updated. How do I find out what my other options are? Thanks, Lee > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > - Original Message - > > From: "Max Tulyev" > To: nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 4:43:54 AM > Subject: Re: Free access to measurement network > > So for my point of view, better solution is to push some law that ease > access to the buildings for ISPs. > > 15.12.17 19:40, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu пише: >> On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:47:42 -0500, Dovid Bender said: >>> What kind of internet are these devices on? With Net Neutrality gone here >>> >>> in the US it would be a good way to measure certain services such as SIP >>> to >>> see which ISP's if any are tampering with packets. >> >> Given previous history, the answer will probably be "most of them". >> >> "The results are not inspiring. More than 129 million people are limited >> to a >> single provider for broadband Internet access using the FCC definition of >> 25 >> Mbps download and 3 Mbps upload. Out of those 129 million Americans, about >> 52 >> million must obtain Internet access from a company that has violated >> network >> neutrality protections in the past and continues to undermine the policy >> today. >> >> In locations where subscribers have the benefit of limited competition, >> the >> situation isn't much better. Among the 146 million Americans with the >> ability >> to choose between two providers, 48 million Americans must choose between >> two >> companies that have a record of violating network neutrality." >> >> https://muninetworks.org/content/177-million-americans-harmed-net-neutrality >> >> > >
Re: Free access to measurement network
That project was paid for by ARRA funds and ran out. The FCC picked up the ball by expanding the scope of its 477 program. That data is available directly on their site or via some sites like broadbandnow.com There are also many service providers available that aren't filing because either A) they don't know about it or B) government stuff. My point was that consumers voted out thousands of independents by taking service from incumbents instead of independents. Thousands have closed up shop. Where independents are available, it's still tough getting customers if the incumbents have a service that mostly works (over say 5 to 10 megs), even if the independent offers service comparable to the incumbent's advertisements. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Lee" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:16:38 PM Subject: Re: Free access to measurement network On 12/16/17, Mike Hammett wrote: > It's a consumer thing. If consumers wanted more options, they would be > supporting those options with their wallets. They don't. As far as I know, my options for >50Mb/s are comcast and verizon. https://www.broadbandmap.gov/ sez Please note: National Broadband Map data is from June 30, 2014 and is no longer being updated. How do I find out what my other options are? Thanks, Lee > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > - Original Message - > > From: "Max Tulyev" > To: nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 4:43:54 AM > Subject: Re: Free access to measurement network > > So for my point of view, better solution is to push some law that ease > access to the buildings for ISPs. > > 15.12.17 19:40, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu пише: >> On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:47:42 -0500, Dovid Bender said: >>> What kind of internet are these devices on? With Net Neutrality gone here >>> >>> in the US it would be a good way to measure certain services such as SIP >>> to >>> see which ISP's if any are tampering with packets. >> >> Given previous history, the answer will probably be "most of them". >> >> "The results are not inspiring. More than 129 million people are limited >> to a >> single provider for broadband Internet access using the FCC definition of >> 25 >> Mbps download and 3 Mbps upload. Out of those 129 million Americans, about >> 52 >> million must obtain Internet access from a company that has violated >> network >> neutrality protections in the past and continues to undermine the policy >> today. >> >> In locations where subscribers have the benefit of limited competition, >> the >> situation isn't much better. Among the 146 million Americans with the >> ability >> to choose between two providers, 48 million Americans must choose between >> two >> companies that have a record of violating network neutrality." >> >> https://muninetworks.org/content/177-million-americans-harmed-net-neutrality >> >> > >
Re: Free access to measurement network
> My point was that consumers voted out thousands of independents by > taking service from incumbents instead of independents. Thousands have > closed up shop. Where independents are available, it's still tough > getting customers if the incumbents have a service that mostly works > (over say 5 to 10 megs), even if the independent offers service > comparable to the incumbent's advertisements. In my neck of the woods, most independents only sold layer 3 services. and depended upon others for layer 2 services. The independents had a booming business with those conditions and consumers had an array of choices for ISPs. Then, the layer 2 operators started offering combined layer 2/3 services at a price point below the layer 2 only price needed to get to the independents. Unsurprisingly, the consumers flocked to the cheaper services. I've always felt if a company used a public right of way to reach a consumer, they should be prohibited from being a layer 3 provider. Or, at a minimum, they need to sell layer 2 services to themselves at the same price they charge others. I've known lots of people that would be happy to compete with the big boys under those circumstances.
