Re: Rack rails on network equipment
Didn't require any additional time at all when equipment wasn't bulky enough to need rails in the first place I've never been happy about that change. On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 09:37:58AM -0700, Andrey Khomyakov wrote: > Hi folks, > Happy Friday! > > Would you, please, share your thoughts on the following matter? > > Back some 5 years ago we pulled the trigger and started phasing out Cisco > and Juniper switching products out of our data centers (reasons for that > are not quite relevant to the topic). We selected Dell switches in part due > to Dell using "quick rails'' (sometimes known as speed rails or toolless > rails). This is where both the switch side rail and the rack side rail > just snap in, thus not requiring a screwdriver and hands of the size no > bigger than a hamster paw to hold those stupid proprietary screws (lookin > at your, cisco) to attach those rails. > We went from taking 16hrs to build a row of compute (from just network > equipment racking pov) to maybe 1hr... (we estimated that on average it > took us 30 min to rack a switch from cut open the box with Juniper switches > to 5 min with Dell switches) > Interesting tidbit is that we actually used to manufacture custom rails for > our Juniper EX4500 switches so the switch can be actually inserted from the > back of the rack (you know, where most of your server ports are...) and not > be blocked by the zero-U PDUs and all the cabling in the rack. Stock rails > didn't work at all for us unless we used wider racks, which then, in turn, > reduced floor capacity. > > As far as I know, Dell is the only switch vendor doing toolless rails so > it's a bit of a hardware lock-in from that point of view. > > *So ultimately my question to you all is how much do you care about the > speed of racking and unracking equipment and do you tell your suppliers > that you care? How much does the time it takes to install or replace a > switch impact you?* > > I was having a conversation with a vendor and was pushing hard on the fact > that their switches will end up being actually costlier for me long term > just because my switch replacement time quadruples at least, thus requiring > me to staff more remote hands. Am I overthinking this and artificially > limiting myself by excluding vendors who don't ship with toolless rails > (which is all of them now except Dell)? > > Thanks for your time in advance! > --Andrey --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections
I fear there are too many areas that are still limited by *dsl technology so trying to define a certain minimum for upstream transmission rates is problematic. (Also a pet peave of mine since it makes moving video and audio project files areound a PITA.) Personally, I think we're probably best sticking with the current figures until what is widely available as a top end service begins to reflect different figures and I don't see that that has happened yet. -Wayne On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 08:29:08PM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote: > > What should be the new minimum speed for "broadband" in the U.S.? > > > This is the list of past minimum broadband speed definitions by year > > year speed > > 1999 200 kbps in both directions (this was chosen as faster than > dialup/ISDN speeds) > > 2000 200 kbps in at least one direction (changed because too many service > providers had 128 kbps upload) > > 2010 4 mbps down / 1 mbps up > > 2015 25 Mbps down / 3 Mbps up (wired) > 5 Mbps down / 1 Mbps up (wireless) > > 2021 ??? / ??? (some Senators propose 100/100 mbps) > > Not only in major cities, but also rural areas > > Note, the official broadband definition only means service providers can't > advertise it as "broadband" or qualify for subsidies; not that they must > deliver better service. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Parler
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 04:32:29PM +0100, niels=na...@bakker.net wrote: > * sro...@ronan-online.com (sro...@ronan-online.com) [Sun 10 Jan 2021, 14:46 > CET]: > >While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone > >they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting > >problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which > >could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend > >any other customer who hosts objectionable content. > > Didn't that ship sail when they booted WikiLeaks off their platform? > > > -- Niels. Yeah, pretty much. See, the real issue here is AUPs which initially were used to make sure users knew that their services could not be used to facilitate illegal things and then used to keep order on the platforms by restricting abusive behavior. However the definition of "abusive" has now been extended so greatly and with constantly changing rules that it's making the statement, effectively, "if we don't like what you say, or if we don't like you or your business, sucks to be you." Editorializing without labeling it as edititorializing. At some point, that breaks down. It has to. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Parler
Ah, yes... re-enter the experiences of Compuserve. For that, I give you Telecom '96 and section 230 which, they think, makes them exempt from such things. Regardless, there are a whole lot of little triggering pebbles that risk being trodden upon here. From monopolist behaviour to basic discrimination (just because you're a private company, you do not have the right to descriminate in who you are willing to do business with. Wasn't that the whole point of the wedding thing?), there are many things to be careful of here, even though it will probably be a hard sell. Still, damned irresponsible to risk touch that precedent, IMO. It means a whole lot of flak comes around to the rest of us. On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 08:42:56AM -0500, sro...@ronan-online.com wrote: > While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want > for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is > now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up > to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts > objectionable content. > > When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house > and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, > less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn???t that same > principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 10, 2021, at 3:24 AM, William Herrin wrote: > > > > ???Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in > > search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the > > proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function. > > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspension/ > > > > Regards, > > Bill HErrin --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever?
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 02:58:32PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 17 Dec 2020, Tom Beecher wrote: > If the last 50 years has shown us anything it is that humans and computers > working together can achieve far more than either in isolation. > > Cheers, > > Rob And if the last 15 years has shown us anything, it is that when you can't get past the auto-attendant and talk to a real human, and if that person can't talk to you like a person instead of reading scripts at you, your stress levels go way up as does your desire to break things. Automation in customer service (or excessive emphasis on procedures) is a really nice way of taking a five minute problem and turning it into an hour long ordeal. (pet peeve) -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: IPv4 Mismanagement
Groups that have such things I can only presume do not do a good job of periodically going through and auditing their IP allocations or, if they do, then they don't do a good enough job of cleaning up all the details. On Fri, Oct 02, 2020 at 05:44:13PM -0400, Justin Streiner wrote: > I suspect many providers don't have good business processes for reclaiming > IP space that was assigned to customers who have either disconnected or > voluntarily returned the space. > > The provider I started out with in the mid/late 90s bootstrapped itself > with IP space from MCI (now, CenturyLink... I think?) and UUNET (now > Verizon Business), but we handed those blocks back when we started getting > provider-independent space from ARIN. No idea what became of that space > after we stopped announcing it. > > jms > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 3:38 PM Ryan Wilkins wrote: > > > I have the same thing with a service that was disconnected a couple years > > ago. Four IP blocks of /24 size are still swipped to us and we???re > > announcing them. I don???t put any customers on them and just use them for > > temporary things for fear that some day someone will want them back. > > > > On Oct 2, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Matt Brennan wrote: > > > > > > A service I disconnected more than 2 years ago still has a /24 of their > > space SWIPED to me. Their NOC closed the ticket I opened to remove. Unknown > > if it's actually in use for another customer. > > > > I also had a conversation last week with another ISP (we were > > renegotiating our contract) about this. The order form they sent me had > > multiple /28's we had "given back" years ago still listed. Turns out > > they're still being routed to us as well. > > > > I would bet it happens all over the place. > > > > -Matt > > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 2:00 PM Matt Hoppes < > > mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > > > >> I'm sitting here in the office on a Friday performing some IP > >> maintenance and I see that one of our upstreams is still filtering an IP > >> range we haven't used in years. I dig into it a bit more and it turns > >> out a major carrier still has them SWIPed to us. > >> > >> This got me curious and I dug more into IPs from back in our early days > >> and discovered there are two Tier-1 carriers we no longer do business > >> with that still have large blocks of their own IPs SWIPED and allocated > >> to us. > >> > >> This is really confusing and concerning. I know it's not the > >> end-all-be-all, but I wonder how much IPv4 exhaustion is being caused by > >> this type of IPv4 mis-management, where IPs are still shown as > >> "allocated" to a customer who hasn't used them in years. > >> > >> I've seen this behavior from Frontier and CenturyLink to name just a few. > >> > >> Any thoughts on this? > >> > > > > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: questions asked during network engineer interview
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 09:44:36AM +0200, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > On 24/Jul/20 09:32, William Herrin wrote: > > > Choosing not to mash one's fingers with a hammer is not an absence of > > curiosity about carpentry. It's merely an understanding that doing > > carpentry well involves -not- mashing one's fingers with a hammer. > > You mean like not poking your finger into the wall socket, or in the > fire, unless you're 2? > > I'm not sure how to parse your comment. But in case you are wondering, I > am talking about network engineering, which is not common sense. > > Mark. Well, I take the point of his comment to be not being curious to the point of inadvertantly doing damage to something that you were better off leaving alone until you found someone who could clue you in to the particulars. There are plenty of network engineers out there who, in going about their job--and especially when trying out new features, figuratively mashed their figures with that hammer. Curiosity, yes, but also self-discipline. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: 60 ms cross-continent
And thus far, no one has mentioned switching speed and other electronic overhead such as the transceivers (that's the big one, IIRC.) I also don't recall if anyone mentioned that the 30ms is as the photon flies, not fiber distance. -Wayne On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 05:32:30PM +, Mel Beckman wrote: > An intriguing development in fiber optic media is hollow core optical fiber, > which achieves 99.7% of the speed of light in a vacuum. > > https://www.extremetech.com/computing/151498-researchers-create-fiber-network-that-operates-at-99-7-speed-of-light-smashes-speed-and-latency-records > > -mel > > On Jun 20, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Dave Cohen wrote: > > ??? Doing some rough back of the napkin math, an ultra low-latency path from, > say, the Westin to 1275 K in Seattle will be in the 59 ms range. This is > considerably longer than the I-90 driving distance would suggest because: > - Best case optical distance is more like 5500 km, in part because the path > actually will go Chicago-NJ-WDC and in part because a distance of 5000 km by > right-of-way will be more like 5500 km when you account for things like > maintenance coils, in-building wiring, etc. > - You???ll need (at least) three OEO regens on that distance, since there???s > no value in spending 5x to deploy an optical system that wouldn???t need to > (like the ones that would manage that distance subsea). This is in addition > to ~60 in-line amplification nodes, although that adds significantly less > latency even in aggregate > > Some of that is simply due to cost savings. In theory, you could probably > spend a boatload of money to build a route that cuts off some of the distance > inefficiency and gets you closer to 4500 km optical distance with minimal > slack coil, and maybe no regens, so you get a real-world performance of 46 > ms. But there are no algo trading sites of importance in DC, and for > everybody else there???s not enough money in the difference between 46 and 59 > ms for someone to go invest in that type of deployment. > > Dave Cohen > craetd...@gmail.com > > On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Tim Durack wrote: > > ??? > And of course in your more realistic example: > > 2742 miles = 4412 km ~ 44 ms optical rtt with no OEO in the path > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:36 PM Tim Durack > mailto:tdur...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Speed of light in glass ~200 km/s > > 100 km rtt = 1ms > > Coast-to-coast ~6000 km ~60ms > > Tim:> > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:27 PM William Herrin > mailto:b...@herrin.us>> wrote: > Howdy, > > Why is latency between the east and west coasts so bad? Speed of light > accounts for about 15ms each direction for a 30ms round trip. Where > does the other 30ms come from and why haven't we gotten rid of it? > > c = 186,282 miles/second > 2742 miles from Seattle to Washington DC mainly driving I-90 > > 2742/186282 ~= 0.015 seconds > > Thanks, > Bill Herrin > > -- > William Herrin > b...@herrin.us<mailto:b...@herrin.us> > https://bill.herrin.us/ > > > -- > Tim:> > > > -- > Tim:> --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Huawei on Mount Everest
You're all missing the point... We can now watch cat videos from the top of Everst. C'mon! Shouldn't that rank among the greatest of man's achievements? On Fri, May 01, 2020 at 01:57:42PM -0400, John Levine wrote: > In article > you > write: > >-=-=-=-=-=- > > > >https://telecoms.com/504051/huawei-and-china-mobile-stick-a-5g-base-station-on-mount-everest/ > > > >Why dont we leave the Everest alone? OTOH, we can now have tiktok > >videos and latest instagram posts from the summit. > > Given how dangerous the ascent is, I would think it would be a good > thing for climbers to be able to check in and say whether they are OK. > > I agree it's mostly a publicity stunt, though. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Are underground utility markers essential workers?
It really goes back to what I have maintained in that you can't really say who is essential or not because such declarations never extend the full width and breadth of the supply and distribution chain. For example, someone manufacturing cardboard boxes might not be thought of as essential but when these cardboard boxes are used to package food items so they can be sent around the country, does that mean that they now are? What if they're being used to package medical supplies? Trying to judge "essential" and "non-essential" is always going to be problematic and you're always going to get it wrong. On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 02:57:15PM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote: > > Utility markers don't get the recognition they deserve. If they aren't > essential workers, they should be and get hazard pay. > > They help protect everyone's fiber and cables and pipes that go boom. > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Tell me about AS19111
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 04:35:14PM +1100, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > P.S. Remember, out of all of the networking engineers in the entire world, > > by definition, half of them are of below average intelligence. > > Unfortunately there is no basis for that claim as networking engineers are > not uniformly randomly selected from the population as a whole. > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org Well, aside from the fact that I don't like such statements (they just don't feel warm and fuzzy to me), his meaning was pretty clear. So to be pedantic, just tack "WRT other engineers" on the end of that and the statement holds. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
Though Iran's situation is hardly a new advent, it reminds me that more and more countries seem to be going for the centralized filter/control/kill option and what a sad development that is. It sure seems like this is going to vastly change how inter-nation traffic (or at least inter-continental) is exchanged between providers and even how bandwidth is sold. It feels to me like it won't be too much longer before such things start to become somewhat less a matter of business and more a matter of treaty. -Wayne On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 10:09:36AM -0500, Sean Donelan wrote: > > Its very practical for a country to cut 95%+ of its Internet connectivity. > Its not a complete cut-off, there is some limited connectivity. But for > most ordinary individuals, their communication channels are cut-off. > > https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1196366347938271232 --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Disney+ Streaming
On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 04:52:25PM -0500, Brian J. Murrell wrote: > On Tue, 2019-11-12 at 12:53 -0800, Matthew Petach wrote: > > Different target audiences. > > That are already satisfied with existing services, so no new target > audiences. > > > Now the parents can be watching "Good Omens" or "Game of Thrones" on > > Netflix while the kids are streaming "The Lion King" on Disney+ > > streaming. > > But they could watch lots of (Disney even) content on Netflix already. > So I still don't see an increase in consumption just because of > Disney+. > > > Instead of the whole family watching one show together, now we have > > segmentation in the marketplace. > > Disney+ doesn't change "whole family watching one show together" (or > not -- because individuals watching their own streams is already > possible) model from the current model. > > Cheers, > b I agree with this. I mean, it might bring on a few new streaming viewers but these would be those who haven't yet transitioned to streaming video for the majority of their watching habits. So this won't really establish a new audience but it could help siphon more away from cable/sattelite. Its just the equivilant of a new channel coming along. One person can only practically watch one show at a time (maybe doesn't apply to football games...) so if there's a given audience size, all this really does is shuffle the ratings around a bit. As to the "$10-20/mo for eight different services", I tend to think that people are gonna rebel at some point and seek out some sort of a centralized service and we'll kinda be back to where we started, with each source getting payment for the specific program viewed. Hard to tell, but the fragmentation thing will start to come to the forefront before too much longer, IMO. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Weekly Routing Table Report
On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 07:15:17PM -0700, Scott Weeks wrote: > > > --- w...@typo.org wrote: > > "WTF, PEOPLE??? CAN'T ANYONE AGGREGATE ANYMORE???" > --- > > > Is that like the NANOG version of "get off my lawn"? :) > > scott > bgp since ~50k Hah! "The internet woulda been perfect, if not for those meddling kids!" --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Weekly Routing Table Report
On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 03:09:24PM -0400, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > A very long time ago, I commented on this report hitting 250,000 prefixes. It > was a Big F*#@$&! Deal at the time. A quarter million prefixes in the DFZ? > Wow???. > > Then I did it again at 500,000. People commented that I should have waited > for 512,000 - especially since a popular piece of kit was expected to fall > over at 512K prefixes. But I said I liked round numbers. > > This time I waited for 768,000. (Everyone happy now?) No, actually! I came on board when there were about 32,000 prefixes and we were panicked about that. "CIDRize or die", I think Sean Doran said. I remember well the memory and cam struggles to keep up with growth. Its phenomenal, yes, but also, "WTF, PEOPLE??? CAN'T ANYONE AGGREGATE ANYMORE???" :) -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Power cut if temps are too high
Time Delay Relays are available with fixed or variable settings. if you're going the mechanical approach vs scripted monitor and SNMP sort of trigger, you can use this to cause a standard relay or SCR to trip to raise the alarm (and hopefully also flash a warning light and/or audibly sound an alert where people are supposed to be) when both sensors read positive and then have the TDR do its thing when the timer expires. Word of caution though... any system like this needs to have some sort of a reset and bypass in case anyone can actually catch it before it goes down and restore environmentals rather than taking the hard outage since that alone does lots of damage to equipment that has been in place for a good while. You also probably ought to make sure that the present state of said system and its pieces are visible so you can make sure you're going to restart correctly. -Wayne On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 06:20:36PM +, Mel Beckman wrote: > We considered this approach, but we wanted to have notifications precede shut > down, and give a remote support person the ability to prevent the shut down. > Our SNMP based system gives us that option. > > -mel > > > On May 27, 2019, at 11:16 AM, Brian Kantor wrote: > > > > A simple air conditioner thermostat wired to the EPO switch. > > For safety, wire two thermostats in series so BOTH have to trip > > before power is shut off. > > > > Note that the EPO rarely does an orderly shutdown, but then this > > is a sort of an emergency. > >- Brian > > > > > >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 02:00:39PM -0400, Dovid Bender wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Is anyone aware of a device that will cut the power if the room goes above > >> X > >> degrees? I am looking for something as a just in case. > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Dovid > >> --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: It's been 20 years today (Oct 16, UTC). Hard to believe.
Well, simply put, the idea is that you should be able to compensate for a certain amount of deviation from accepted usage as long as its still within what the protocol allows (or can be read to allow) but that you yourself should act with a fairly strict interpretation. In others, don't be the one *causing* the problems... On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:10:31AM -0700, Brian Kantor wrote: > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 02:01:48PM -0400, Daniel Corbe wrote: > > The one thing I remember about Postel, other than the fact that he had his > > fingers in a lot of DNS pies, is be liberal about what you accept, be > > conservative about what you send. It???s a notion that creates undo burden > > > > on the implementor, because it places the expectation on the that you need > > to account for every conceivable ambiguous corner case and that???s not > > always the best approach when implementing a standard; and it mostly arises > > > > from the lack of adherence to the second part of that statement. > > I think that his aphorism is simply a recognition that NO standard > can cover all cases that might arise when dealing with complex > matters, no matter how much thought went into it. People are > fallible, and the standards they write are inevitably flawed in > some way, so a realistic implementor has to allow some slack or be > continually engaged in finger-pointing when something doesn't work. > - Brian --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: It's been 20 years today (Oct 16, UTC). Hard to believe.
It is a fact that I learned much of what I initially knew about internetworking by reading the protocols outlined in many of the offical RFC documents. You couldn't pick one of these up without seeing the name Postel at the top. I never met him but give due deference and respect to his work and what it ultimately produced. On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:00:33PM -0400, Rodney Joffe wrote: > At NANOG two weeks ago, we had an interesting discussion at one of the lunch > tables. One of the subjects we discussed was the original IANA, and RFC > Editor, Jon Postel. > > Seven of the ten people at the table had never heard of him. Maybe these days > it no longer matters who he was, and what he meant to where we are today. > > > > For those who care about the history of the Internet, and routing and > addressing. And protocols??? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2468 > > Oct 16, 1998. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: (perhaps off topic, but) Microwave Towers
I was going to say... in my experience (I've been to a lot of the Arizona electronics sites, having grown up around broadcasting) that most of the microwave equipment in use was for Bell. That was by far the most populous tower on any mountain top. The broadcasters don't send their signals anywhere but either from downtown to the transmiter or in some cases from the big town to a small town to feed a local low power transmitter (like 5kw VHF as opposed to the normal 100kw). Anything else was Satelite. I know the railroad did some wireless (Sprint's towers were also quite densely packed with directional horns) but a lot of their communication for rail signaling was hardwire as far as I was aware. -Wayne On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:20:34PM -0500, frnk...@iname.com wrote: > Is it possibly AT&T's old network? > https://99percentinvisible.org/article/vintage-skynet-atts-abandoned-long-lines-microwave-tower-network/ > http://long-lines.net/places-routes/ > > This network runs through our service territory, too. The horns are > distinctive. > > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: NANOG On Behalf Of Miles Fidelman > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 9:54 AM > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: (perhaps off topic, but) Microwave Towers > > Hi Folks, > > I find myself driving down Route 66. On our way through Arizona, I was > surprised by what look like a lot of old-style microwave links. They > pretty much follow the East-West rail line - where I'd expect there's a > lot of fiber buried. > > Struck me as somewhat interesting. > > It also struck me that folks here might have some comments. > > Miles Fidelman > > -- > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. > In practice, there is. Yogi Berra > > > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: is odd number of links in lag group ok
As others have noted, there can be implementation specific issues that you can't necessarily predict but most typically when I hear "odd vs even" discussions, usually the caveat is not a trunk but a redundant connection. Putting three links on router A and two links on router B obviously doesn't work well. On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:15:19AM -0500, Aaron Gould wrote: > I have (2) 10 gig links bundled in a lag to my upstream internet provider. > and we need more internet capacity. Is it cool to add a third 10 gig to my > existing 20 gig lag internet connection? > > > > I'm asking since I heard in the past something negative about odd numbers of > lag members. .but I also have heard that it's not a big deal. Let me know > please > > > > -Aaron > > > > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: 60 Hudson Woes
Yeah, this is another issue I've been seeing pop up more in the last several years. Apparently there have been a few incidents in the past that caused accountability problems so now any outside vendor is required to have a COI on file to do work in many colos (irespective of colo operator). That can take a bit to do if they're a new contractor. Once on file, a renewal is usually an easy thing but getting the initial paperwork done can take time. After that, they can come and go as they please, so long as access tickets are duly arranged. -Wayne On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 04:07:11PM -0600, Brian Knight wrote: > As the engineer working on that Cisco / IBM issue Erik mentioned... ;) > > I was able to get walk-up, same-day access to the building for myself a few > weeks ago (as a customer of DR) and didn???t get my hand slapped for it. DR > just created the access ticket with the building and that was enough. It took > about 20 minutes start to finish. > > But if a vendor tech needs access, they need a COI generated, and that must > be sent to the building ahead of time via DR. Otherwise they will be turned > away. > > The COI was the biggest blocker. A 48 hour lead time for the visit didn???t > seem to be enforced, not by Digital Realty anyway. > > Also, I tried to arrange for permanent building key card access while I was > there. But the key cards must be used at least once every 60 days, otherwise > they are deactivated. I decided just to arrange for access ahead of time > since I don???t visit often. > > -Brian > > > On Feb 16, 2018, at 1:50 PM, Erik Sundberg wrote: > > > > We just had an issue where cisco was going to replace a power tray in our > > router at 60 hudson, we are also at telx. Cisco contracts with IBM for > > this. The building is now checking that all 3rd party vendors have an > > existing Certificate of insurance (COI). This take 48 hours to get put in > > there system... > > > > So now we are forced to use telx smarthands if it's under 48 hours or > > weekends > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dovid Bender > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 12:03 PM > > To: NANOG > > Subject: 60 Hudson Woes > > > > We have space with Digital Realty (aka TELX) and 60 Hudson and lately it's > > been a nightmare getting in. The real estate management company is having > > us reconsider our options. They are giving us the option to have ID badges > > for our employees but for anyone else that wants access we need to request > > it 48 hours in advance to get approval. So if we plan on having an > > unexpected outage and we need to have a have a vendor come on site (e.g. a > > Dell tech) we will need to let them know in advance. > > > > What are peoples experiences with 111 8th and 165 Halsey? We really like > > the connectivity options at 60 Hudson but at some point the hassle becomes > > not worth it. > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: 60 Hudson Woes
Yeah, with the demise of 111 8th as a carrier hotel, Halsey seems to be becoming a default for many. My prediction is that you won't have trouble getting to who you want to there. Thought I would be nice to have another facility outside of Manhattan as an alternate point in which to congregate. On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 11:54:28PM -0500, Dovid Bender wrote: > While dealing with DR is not always fun in this case it isn't their fault. > The building management is the one creating the issues. I used to have no > issues and now every time it seems like there are new rules to get in. Over > all it seems that everyone has high praise for 165 Halsey so I will start > there. > > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > > I will generally prefer the smaller operators in a market for many > > reasons, but most relevant to this situation is that they simply don't have > > the market power to be jerks. They may want to be nice, but they have to be > > nice, else people go elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > - > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > > > The Brothers WISP > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Jim Grady" > > To: "Dovid Bender" > > Cc: "NANOG" > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 12:38:37 PM > > Subject: Re: 60 Hudson Woes > > > > We do not have all of the carriers you can get at 60 Hudson but we do have > > many at 365 Data Centers at 65 Broadway and I can guarantee you won???t have > > the headaches from 60 Hud, and you can probably save money. Let me know if > > you have any interest and we can discuss your requirements so I can get you > > a quote. > > > > Best, > > > > Jim > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Feb 16, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Dovid Bender wrote: > > > > > > We have space with Digital Realty (aka TELX) and 60 Hudson and lately > > it's > > > been a nightmare getting in. The real estate management company is having > > > us reconsider our options. They are giving us the option to have ID > > badges > > > for our employees but for anyone else that wants access we need to > > request > > > it 48 hours in advance to get approval. So if we plan on having an > > > unexpected outage and we need to have a have a vendor come on site (e.g. > > a > > > Dell tech) we will need to let them know in advance. > > > > > > What are peoples experiences with 111 8th and 165 Halsey? We really like > > > the connectivity options at 60 Hudson but at some point the hassle > > becomes > > > not worth it. > > > > > > > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Broadcast television in an IP world
Where the content is increasingly becoming on-demand, no, multicast isn't going to benefit folks that much. The delivery is going to pretty much remain single-stream based strictly on the time differential from one user's start point to the next even if they are both watching the same episode. So local broadcasters can benefit, yes, but the problem is that content consumption is moving rapidly away from the schedule-based paradigm. On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 06:56:38PM -0500, shawn wilson wrote: > Besides Netflix, does anyone else offer CDN boxes for their services? > > I'm also guessing that most content won't benefit from multicast to homes > too much? > > I can see where multicast benefits sports and news (and probably catching > commercials for people). But in a world where I'm more than happy to pay > Amazon $25-40 a show/season to avoid commercials, I'm guessing > live/broadcast TV will get even less popular (I get news via YouTube - so > that's not even live for me anymore). > > On Nov 17, 2017 18:03, "Luke Guillory" wrote: > > > This use to be the case. > > > > While it might lower OPX that surely won't result in lower retrans, will > > just be more profit for them. > > > > We're down as well on video subs, this is 99% due to rising prices. > > > > This is where it's heading for sure, in the end it will cost more as well > > since each will be charging more than the per sub rates we're getting > > charge. They'll have to in order to keep revenue the same. > > > > When ESPN offers an OTT product I have no doubt it will be near the $20 > > per month, for 5 channels or so? > > > > > > > > Luke Guillory > > Vice President ??? Technology and Innovation > > > > Tel:985.536.1212 > > Fax:985.536.0300 > > Email: lguill...@reservetele.com > > > > Reserve Telecommunications > > 100 RTC Dr > > Reserve, LA 70084 > > > > > > _ > > > > Disclaimer: > > The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for > > the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > > confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate, > > distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail > > if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from > > your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or > > error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does > > not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this > > message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. . > > > > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Broadcast television in an IP world
> > And while a small ISP serving Plattsburg NY would have no problem > > peering with the WPTZ server in Plattsburg, would the big guys like > > Comcast/Verizon be amenable to peering with TV stations in small markets? > > This is already the case in many markets. It may not be IP peering, but > there have been several recent instances where a broadcast TV > transmitter is off the air due to some kind of failure and their cable > feed keeps on chugging. Obviously there is some form of connection > between the TV station and the cable company that doesn't rely on OTA. Hell, even STL links these days are often packet based. (It's often a lot simpler and cheaper than trying to operate a microwave feed.) So if you've already done the encoding, the OTA setup is simply one branch among several possible paths. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Puerto Rico: Lack of electricity threatens telephone and internet services
Well, the problem as I understand it is that the infrastructure was not all that great to begin with. Much of it was damaged in the first storm and when this second one came through, what remained basically disappeared. That's why they say that the only thing you can do is start from the middle and slowly extend the tentacles outward. You're almost building the territory from scratch. Assuming that the reports of theft, misapproproation, and other nefarious occurences are correct, that certainly does not help matters. Still, this situation ought to make everyone sit up and think about their own DR capability. On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 03:11:37PM -0700, Jeff Shultz wrote: > It does make you wonder about the electrical infrastructure of the island, > and how much work is being done to repair it. With the Texas and Florida > hurricanes you saw fleets of electrical service vehicles (boom trucks and > the like) from other power companies with joint agreements waiting to > deploy into the disaster area as soon as it was safe to do so. > > With PR well, it's not like you can drive to the island, much less > (apparently) around on it. Getting those vehicles and people in, assuming > joint agreements with off island power companies existed in the first > place, would be a case of scheduling and determining priorities. > > And for those crying that the US Federal Gov't ought to do it - where do > you think they're going to find the people? It's not like they have armies > of infrastructure level electricians just sitting around playing cards > until needed for an emergency - these are the sort of people who, by and > large, are already working at jobs - where they are needed as well. > > When it comes to infrastructure it seems like PR has been knocked back to > the "tools to make tools" stage - they need to build the infrastructure to > rebuild their infrastructure, which was apparently in no great shape to > begin with. > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jean-Francois Mezei < > jfmezei_na...@vaxination.ca> wrote: > > > On 2017-10-19 03:00, Sean Donelan wrote: > > > > > not intended for long-term, continuous use. The generators will need > > > maintenance and likely experience unscheduled failures the longer they're > > > used. > > > > Permanent duty diesel generators exist. Many northern communities in > > Canada run on them as their 7/24 power source. > > > > It *shouldn't* have taken long after Maria for locals to know how much > > damage there had been to electrical grid and that if it's gonna take > > months to fix, you're gonna need constant duty generators. > > > > What isn't clear to me is whether everything still depends on FEMA/army > > help, or whether business is able to function autonomously and get their > > own generators without the army confiscating them to be delieved to a > > hospital instead. > > > > And if you're a telco who is deprived of revenues because almost all > > your customers are without power, do you spend your own money and effort > > to try to get a permanent duty diesel generator to maintain your central > > office, or do you wait for government to install one for you ? > > > > It is one thing to be benevolent and wanting to have your network > > backbone up, but financial realities of the cost of running a business > > without revenues will eventually hit you when the disaster lasts for > > months instead of days. > > > > > > -- > Jeff Shultz > Central Office Technician > SCTC > (503) 769-2125 > Go Big Ask for Gig > > -- > Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!! > > <http://www.facebook.com/sctcweb> <http://www.instagram.com/sctc502> > <https://www.yelp.com/biz/sctc-stayton-3> > > > > > > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and > delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. > The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions > in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail > transmission. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: 4 or smaller digit ASNs
> > I'm curious what your client's rationale is for wanting a low ASN. Dare I say it? Nerds often get overly excited at things that are generally pretty small... ;) --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: replacing compromised biometric authenticators
I agree that multiple levels are best and, for the moment, I'd frankly be hesitant to give anything like finger print data since one can never change that and the harm of it getting loose can not yet be determined. (Not that the data being taken by these scanners is necessarily all that grandiose.) I also would accept a facility that did something like handscan and pin to access the lobby/security desk and keycard or fob to move around once inside along with scan in/scan out enforcement. (No tail gating.) I've never really been keen on relying on biometrics though. The handscanners can be convenient for not having to carry anything around but when all is said and done, they are really not all that much better than just a keycard. -Wayne On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 04:10:51PM -0500, Matt Harris wrote: > I would definitely not say that it is current best practice not to deploy > biometrics. As part of a holistic approach, biometric systems can improve > security greatly. As a singular approach, using it as a single factor for > authentication and authorization of access/actions, it's as terrible an > idea as any other. The difficult of passing a high-quality biometric > authentication system, even knowing its success conditions, is > non-trivial. The good ones check for basic signs of life, as well, so > simply cutting off someone's hand and trying to use it would fail, for > example. There are, of course, cheap biometric systems that are not as > good, and ymmv depending on what and how you deploy biometrics. Taking the > specific threat level you're up against is always relevant. > > All of the facilities I have in production have a three factor approach to > access - "something you know, something you have, and something you are." > Biometrics being the latter, plus a badge or dongle, and a four digit > code. None of my production facilities can be access without all three. > > Take care, > Matt > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Ken Chase wrote: > > > (forking the thread here..) > > > > Biometrics are still the new hotness out in North America. Cologix whom I > > deal > > with in Canada has a dozen and a half odd POPs in canada/usa and I think > > has > > fingerprinting at all sites. > > > > If the current best operating practice is to avoid biometrics, why are they > > still in use out here? Has anyone gotten the message? Is anyone in North > > America > > ripping them out yet? > > > > Other factors include your country's privacy regulations for storing > > irreplaceable personal information, the burden of which might not be worth > > the security 'benefit'. > > > > /kc > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 04:46:02PM -0400, William Herrin said: > > >On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:32 PM, J??rg Kost wrote: > > > > > >> Do you guys still at least have biometric access control devices at > > your > > >> Level3 dc? They even removed this things at our site, because there > > is no > > >> budget for a successor for the failing unit. And to be consistent, > > they > > >> event want to remove all biometric access devices at least across > > Germany. > > >> > > > > > >Hi J??rg, > > > > > >IMO, biometric was a gimmick in the first place and a bad idea when > > >carefully considered. All authenticators can be compromised. Hence, all > > >authenticators must be replaceable following a compromise. If one of > > your > > >DCs' palm vein databases is lost, what's your plan for replacing that > > hand? > > > > > >Regards, > > >Bill Herrin > > > > > > > > >-- > > >William Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us > > >Dirtside Systems . Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> > > > > -- > > Ken Chase - m...@sizone.org Guelph Canada > > > > > > -- > Matt Harris - Chief Security Officer > Main: +1 855.696.3834 ext 103 > Mobile: +1 908.590.9472 > Email: m...@netfire.net --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Hurricane Maria: Summary of communication status - and lack of
Please note that there is another looming problem with restoration of services generally (not just telecommunications). The key here is the power grid. >From what I have read, a great deal of the operating infrastructure is operating on backup generator. These generators are not meant for this duty cycle. (Recall that most units are sized such that they will be providing ~70% output if not higher and thus will run hard.) It will not be long before some of them begin to fail. Even if they can keep running for the longer term, they need to be shut down every so many hours for service (oil change, etc.) Depending on the unit, that may be measured in the hundreds of hours. One week is 168 hours. One month is 720 hours. Fail to do this and the unit evntually becomes a big pile of scrap metal. Any facility, beit a pumping station, hospital, airport, cell tower, central office, or sewage plant that must rely on generators for the foreseeable future must consider this. On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 12:47:21AM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote: > > The Puerto Rico government has posted threee maps of cellular coverage and > GPS coordinates of Cells on Wheels (COWs) in service. > > http://www.status.pr/Maps/ > > It still looks grim in Puerto Ricofrom a telecommunications perspective. > Its will be an interesting after-action study. Other than "it was a > hurricane," I haven't gotten a good idea why so much of the > telecommunications network failed and backups still aren't working more > than 2 weeks later. > > Claro, the ILEC but second in terms of mobile phone marketshare behind > AT&T, has started to more fully explain what "restored" means, and that > it doesn't mean everything as before the hurricane. It is minimum > telecommunications. Claro has been more willing to talk about the > situation in Puerto Rico, which is why I've referencing Claro a lot more > than other carriers. > > This is a google translate of an interview from spanish. > > "It is important to clarify that the radio bases put into service to date, > offer the same voice and data services as before the impact of the > Hurricane. In other words, if the base radio is 4GLTE, that is the service > it will offer. The other two components that influence the customer > experience are the voice and data plan and the equipment of each user." > > "The network is also open to third-party customers as part of our > commitment to connect everyone in the country. In fact, over a quarter of > a million customers from other providers have connected daily to the Claro > network. When these customers connect to our network they only have voice > service as stipulated in the roaming agreement with the other providers. > As for the fixed network, this morning the service was restored in the > central offices (OC) of Fajardo and Humacao, whose optical fibers had been > affected by the destruction of Hurricane Maria. In this way already have > fixed voice, internet and long distance services in these municipalities: > Ceiba, Fajardo, Luquillo, Humacao, Naguabo and Yabucoa. Already a total of > 57 municipalities have all 3 services. It is possible that some customers > of Claro served by these OCs do not have internet. This is possible as > there could be cables and posts broken and / or VRADs without AEE > service." > > https://www.metro.pr/pr/noticias/2017/10/06/senal-claro-esta-ya-accesible-34-municipios.html --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Hurricane Maria: Summary of communication status - and lack of
Well, that's why recovery efforts in broad scale events like this have to go from a central point to pushing a perimiter farther and farther out. Create a habital, functional zone where workers can return to both to organize and recouperate and then go back out and push farther afield. First restoring main arteries (whether that is in the form of roads, electrical dstribution, communications, water, or sewer) and then branch out from there. All of that takes time. It does no good, afterall, to repair the services in a neighborhood if the feeds into that neighborhood aren't going to be functional for weeks. And always remember that the first duty is to life and limb. The rest is of far less importance until that situation has been stabilized. On Mon, Oct 02, 2017 at 12:56:56AM -0400, Jean-Francois Mezei wrote: > On 2017-10-02 00:32, Javier J wrote: > > > I hope they do. There doesn't seem to be a shortage of FEMA, Army, etc > > personnel on the ground or a shortage of truck drivers in the US willing to > > help. If 80% of Truck drivers that pick up containers from the ports can't > > make it, then this needs to be supplemented any way possible to get things > > moving. > > > When disaster is in focused area (Like Houston), truck drivers can > easily return to functional cities after delivering goods to the diaster > zone (so not a strain on food/lodging in diaster zone). > > If you bring truck drivers (and telecom, electrical etc) workiers into > Puerto Rico, they can't go home every night, so become a strain on > shelter/food resources. > > And you can't "steal" your local workers if they are busy pickup up > their belongings from collapsed homes, waiting in long queues for food > and caring for their families. > > In 1998 Ice Storm, Bombardier in Montr??al had full power and got a lot > of bad publicity when it threatened to fire employees who didn't show up > for work. Seesm like mamnagement lived in areas that had power and > didn't realise how life changes when you have no power, queue up for > wood provided by city etc. (and that is nothing compared to what people > on Puerto Rico are dealing with). --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Hurricane Maria: Summary of communication status - and lack of
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:52:29AM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote: > T-Mobile also mentions while T-Mobile's field engineering crew was at the > Luis Mu??oz Mar??n Airport, they were drafted to help install a generator > for the FAA Control Tower. That's one way to help get your supplies on the > island. You know, that's a really good point. In such situations, the sooner you can get the basic infrastructure operational again and transportation, electrical systems, and fuel distribution (generators have to run on something...) in particular, the faster everything can start coming back together. First and foremost, this means making the place habitable again so you actually have customers to serve. So any time spent doing something like what is related above is extremely worth while and can only serve to facilitate future work for everyone on the island. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Hurricane Harvey - Network Status (FCC)
These held up well in previous examples as well until their batteries ran down. So we'll have to see if they continue to be operational as the water drains away. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 05:47:33PM +, Robert Jacobs wrote: > Large network provider in the middle of this... This event will re-write all > of our DR plans... Telecom and communication systems are holding up extremely > well with high water and multi-county power outages caused by high-water... I > commend all those out in this responding to immediate needs of their fellow > citizens directly and the countless other setting at home in front of their > PC monitoring things and making sure systems and emergences are being dealt > with. Proud to see everyone working together.. That is the way it should be. > > > -Original Message- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Jean-Francois Mezei > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 11:51 AM > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Hurricane Harvey - Network Status (FCC) > > On 2017-08-27 20:58, Tim Jackson wrote: > > KHOU's local transmitter (Missouri City I think is where it's at) > > seems to be back on the air, but with all production from WFAA out of > > Dallas. > > > KHOU had a tweet with video showing the water flooding into their > offices/studios and staff having to leave. > > https://twitter.com/sallykhou11/status/901805513905668096 > > I guess this is where disaster tolerance/recovery plans really kick in. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: OSPF vs ISIS - Which do you prefer & why?
This generally supports my own view that it depends on the topology and the real or potential scale/scope. In my experience, IS-IS is just all around better in a flat, highly interconnected environment such as an ISP or other broadly scaled network. If you have a very (almost exclusively) heirarchical structure and pretty good control over IP addressing and can use summarization effectively, then OSPF can make your core networking much simpler. On a small network that doesn't look to grow at leaps and bounds, I'd favor OSPF. On a large, complex network or a network that has the potential to grow without any sort of predefined structure (ie, more demand based), then IS-IS is probably your win. Note that this doesn't factor in multiple IS-IS levels, something I don't have a great deal of experience with. Mostly, networks I've been associated with just run one great big, gigantic level 0, though they did also experiment with other configurations. -Wayne On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 07:59:12AM +0200, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > On 9/Nov/16 19:12, Michael Bullut wrote: > > > Greetings Team, > > > > ???While I haven't worked with IS-IS before but the only disadvantage I've > > encountered with OSPF is that it is resource intensive on the router it is > > running on which is why only one instance runs on any PE & P device on an > > ISP network. OSPF is pretty good in handling the core network routing while > > BGP & EGP handle the last-mile routing between PE & CE devices. BGP & EGP > > can run on top of OSPF. I came across this *article* > > <https://routingfreak.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/why-providers-still-prefer-is-is-over-ospf-when-designing-large-flat-topologies/> > > when > > scrolling the web a while back and I still want to find out if am the only > > one who thinks its a matter of choice between the two. Although there isn't > > distinct 1:1 argument, it's good we discuss it here and figure out why one > > prefer one over the other *(consider a huge flat network)**.* What say you > > ladies and gentlemen? > > I've given a talk about this a couple of times since 2008. But our > reasons are to choosing IS-IS are: > > * No requirement to home everything back to Area 0 (Virtual Links are > evil). > > * Integrated IPv4/IPv6 protocol support in a single IGP implementation. > > * Single level (L2) deployment at scale. > > * Scalable TLV structure vs. Options structure for OSPFv2. OSPFv3 > employs a TLV structure, however. > > * Inherent scaling features, e.g., iSPF, PRC, e.t.c. Some of these may > not be available on all vendor implementations. > > If you're interested in reviewing the talk I gave on this, a lot more > details is in there at: > > > http://www.apricot.net/apricot2009/images/lecture_files/isis_deployment.pdf > > Ultimately, router CPU's are way faster now, and I could see a case for > running a single-area OSPFv2. So I'd likely not be religious about > forcing you down the IS-IS path. > > Mark. > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Dyn DDoS this AM?
See, that's the thing... The key to victory here is to defeat the robots. Take away the anonymity of proxies and trojan amplifiers and enforcement gets a lot easier. Sadly, this war doesn't seem likely to be won anytime soon. Especially since there are State entities using (and even deploying) a number of these systems for use against other States and businesses and/or financial mechanisms. So rather than help the community solve the problem (for their own good, no less!), it is in their interests to perpetuate it. -Wayne On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 05:37:08PM -0400, Alain Hebert wrote: > Just a FYI, > > That "horrific trend" has been happening since some techie got > dissed on an IRC channel over 20 years ago. > > He used a bunch of hosted putters to ICMP flood the IRC server. > > Whatever the community is behind, until the carriers decide to wise > up this will keep happening, that is without talking about the > industries being developed around DDoSes events. > > Enjoy your weekend. ( I ain't on call anymore anyway =D ) > > - > Alain Hebertaheb...@pubnix.net > PubNIX Inc. > 50 boul. St-Charles > P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7 > Tel: 514-990-5911 http://www.pubnix.netFax: 514-990-9443 > > On 10/21/16 11:52, Brian Davies via NANOG wrote: > > +1! > > > > Well said, Patrick. > > > > B > > > > On Friday, October 21, 2016, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > > >> I cannot give additional info other than what???s been on ???public > >> media???. > >> > >> However, I would very much like to say that this is a horrific trend on > >> the Internet. The idea that someone can mention a DDoS then get DDoS???ed > >> Can > >> Not Stand. See Krebs??? on the Democratization of Censorship. See lots of > >> other things. > >> > >> To Dyn and everyone else being attacked: > >> The community is behind you. There are problems, but if we stick together, > >> we can beat these miscreants. > >> > >> To the miscreants: > >> You will not succeed. Search "churchill on the beaches???. It???s a bit > >> melodramatic, but it???s how I feel at this moment. > >> > >> To the rest of the community: > >> If you can help, please do. I know a lot of you are thinking ???what can I > >> do?" There is a lot you can do. BCP38 & BCP84 instantly come to mind. Sure, > >> that doesn???t help Mirai, but it still helps. There are many other things > >> you can do as well. > >> > >> But a lot of it is just willingness to help. When someone asks you to help > >> trace an attack, do not let the request sit for a while. Damage is being > >> done. Help your neighbor. When someone???s house is burning, your current > >> project, your lunch break, whatever else you are doing is almost certainly > >> less important. If we stick together and help each other, we can - we WILL > >> - win this war. If we are apathetic, we have already lost. > >> > >> > >> OK, enough motivational speaking for today. But take this to heart. Our > >> biggest problem is people thinking they cannot or do not want to help. > >> > >> -- > >> TTFN, > >> patrick > >> > >>> On Oct 21, 2016, at 10:55 AM, Chris Grundemann >> > wrote: > >>> Does anyone have any additional details? Seems to be over now, but I'm > >> very > >>> curious about the specifics of such a highly impactful attack (and it's > >>> timing following NANOG 68)... > >>> > >>> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/ddos-on-dyn-impacts- > >> twitter-spotify-reddit/ > >>> -- > >>> @ChrisGrundemann > >>> http://chrisgrundemann.com > >> --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: MPLS in the campus Network?
If the reason for L2 transport is purely customer driven and purely ptp, then a L2 VPN solution would be better than directly transporting the frames. If you don't have to bridge it directly, don't. Keep the core at layer 3 wherever possible. L2 can be very hard to debug when there are issues. On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 06:58:51PM +0200, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > On 20/Oct/16 18:45, Roland Dobbins wrote: > > > > > Sure - but it's probably worth revisiting the origins of those > > requirements, and whether there are better alternatives. > > Indeed. > > What we've seen is customers who prefer to manage their own IP layer, > and just need transport. These types of customers tend to be split > between EoDWDM and EoMPLS preferences. Whatever the case, their primary > requirement is control of their IP domain. > > What we're not seeing anymore is l3vpn requirements, particularly on the > back of on-premise IT infrastructure moving into the cloud. We see this > driving a lot of regular IP growth. > > Mark. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: 18 years ago today - rfc 2468
And for those of you who you don't recognize his name, either you aren't old enough or you haven't read enough RFCs, though his contributions go wayyy beyond that. It is fair to say he is very much one of the cadre of personell who quite literally built the internet that so many of the rest now take for granted. On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 09:21:01AM -0400, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > We do. > > Thank you for reminding us. And thanks to Dr. Postel for making what we do > possible. > > -- > TTFN, > patrick > > > On Oct 15, 2016, at 9:19 AM, Rodney Joffe wrote: > > > > To be clear - Oct 16. Which has just tolled in the APAC region. For most of > > you it will be tomorrow. But no matter. You get the point. > > > >> On Oct 15, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Rodney Joffe wrote: > >> > >> How time flies > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: ISP License in the USA?
Well, now you're talking tax ID or, rather, a general license to operate a commercial enterprise, not a specific license related to ISPs. On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 07:05:29PM +, Dustin Jurman wrote: > Local Business License. > > Dustin > > > > -Original Message- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:53 PM > To: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: RE: ISP License in the USA? > > I would suggest getting a new consultant .. :) > > Possible Acronyms > > College of Arts and Letters (Missouri State University; Springfield, MO) > Cartridge Overall Length (shooting) > Client Object Access Layer > Circle of Acro Lovers > Columbus Ohio Area Local > Consolidated Operational Activities List Customer Order Acceptance List > Common Operational Activities List (US Navy) > Chance of a Lifetime (raffle) > > Lol got me! There is nothing that I know of that you have to "license" to > become a ISP in the US of A. . You do have to fill out Form 477 twice a year. > :) > > > www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburg...@linktechs.net > > -Original Message- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Lorell Hathcock > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:14 PM > To: 'NANOG list' > Subject: ISP License in the USA? > > NANOG: > > > > Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP > license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other countries > like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.) > > > > I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't know > of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end > customers. > > > > I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a > requirement to pass traffic. > > > > He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar. > > > > Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license for a > small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users (commercial > and/or residential). > > > > I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to kick > in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lorell Hathcock > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: ISP License in the USA?
+1 Do not confuse a desire from some party you wish to do business saying, "Our own consultants have said that we shouldn't do business with anyone not compliant with these standards," as a requirement for licensure. Bureaucrats simply like certificates and that's all this really boils down to, a way for consultants and/or politicians to meddle in both ends of what has previously been a pretty open process, creating a solution in search of a problem and adding complexity where it's generally not needed. In fine, the only thing you need in the US to be an ISP is a network. The rest is mostly all about trying to get customers from one section or another of business or of the general public. -Wayne On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:54:38AM -0700, Eric Flanery (eric) wrote: > There is no such thing as an 'ISP license' in the US. I have a hard time > imagining Texas of all places would have such a requirement. > > Depending on what exactly you are doing, there are various and highly > varied requirements, such as acquiring a SPIN number for E-Rate, filing FCC > 477 if you do broadband, FCC 499 if you do VoIP (CLEC and ETC also apply > there), a FRN if you do pretty much anything FCC-related, various sorts of > licenses for most radio/microwave systems (excepting part 15 stuff), CALEA, > open internet, etc... > > COALS _could_ apply _if_ you are running a cable TV system that also > delivers data services, but it isn't an 'ISP thing'. > > More to the point... > > I wouldn't take US legal advice from any consultant not familiar with US > law, or really any non-lawyer consultant at all. I wouldn't take it from > NANOG either; while it's a tremendous technical resource, it is not your > attorney. > > There are a number of telecommunications focused law firms out there, with > knowledgeable lawyers. It would be a good idea to establish a relationship > with one, if you intend to enter the increasingly complex legal minefield > of being an ISP. > > --Eric > > On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Dan White wrote: > > > Not familiar with the process, but look at E-rate if you want to provide > > service to schools, libraries and health providers. > > > > > > On 05/31/16 13:14 -0500, Lorell Hathcock wrote: > > > >> NANOG: > >> > >> Our owner has hired a consultant who insists that we should have an ISP > >> license to operate in the United States. (Like they have in other > >> countries > >> like Germany and in Africa where he has extensive personal experience.) > >> > >> I am asking him to tell me which license we should have because I don't > >> know > >> of a license that we are required to have to route IP traffic to end > >> customers. > >> > >> I am familiar with CLEC status filed with our state. But it is not a > >> requirement to pass traffic. > >> > >> He is suggesting COALS with which I am completely unfamiliar. > >> > >> Can anyone tell me if there is a Texas state and/or USA Federal license > >> for > >> a small operator to pass IP traffic from the internet to end users > >> (commercial and/or residential). > >> > >> I am aware that there are some CALEA requirements of ISPs that seem to > >> kick > >> in once a CALEA request is made, but is that different from a license. > >> > > > > -- > > Dan White > > BTC Broadband > > --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: GeoIP database issues and the real world consequences
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 06:15:08PM -, John Levine wrote: > > >The problem with MaxMind (and other geoip databases I've seen that do > >Lat/Long as well as Country / State / Town) is that the > >data doesn't include uncertainty, so it returns "38.0/-97.0" rather than > >"somewhere in a 3000 mile radius circle centered on > >38.0/-97.0". > > > >Someone should show them RFC 1876 as an example of better practice. > > Oh, heck, you know better than that. You can put in all the flags and > warnings you want, but if it returns an address, nitwits will show up > at the address with guns. > > Bodies of water probably are the least bad alternative. I wonder if > they're going to hydrolocate all of the unknown addresses, or only the > ones where they get publically shamed. I personal favor setting the generic location as a certain set of roundish holes in the ground up in the northern plains. Let the government raid itself for once. --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Colocation Server Lifts
In all my time dealing with various colos around the globe, I cannot say that I can ever recall hearing (or seeing) someone refer to using a lift to install or dismount a server. My inclination therefore is that it is not something likely to be common. That it may exist in locations I have had dealings with is possible, of course, but not something that I am expressly aware of at any particular facility. As to use, I believe these would be in the vein of dollys and ladders, available upon request. Except in the most restrictive colos, I would not expect any explicit conditions for operation except to perhaps be questioned whether you know how to use it before letting you wheel it away. One would hope it would be more or less self-explanatory and just a question of reading the labels by the controls. -Wayne On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 07:23:41AM -0500, Jason Lee wrote: > Hi NANOG community, > > A few questions I have for the community regarding server lifts at colo > facilities. > > 1. Is a server lift something you would typically expect a colo facility to > provide? > > if yes, > > 2. Do colo facilities typically allow customers to just use them or provide > an operator? > 3. Is it a free offering or something they rent out? > 4. What would be the typical device weight you would lift? > 5. What would be the max device weight you would lift? > > Thanks, > > Jason --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Oh dear, we've all been made redundant...
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 11:00:36PM -0500, Larry Sheldon wrote: > On 3/19/2016 18:16, Warren Kumari wrote: > > Found on Staple's website: > > http://www.staples.com/NetReset-Automated-Power-Cycler-for-Modems-and-Routers/product_1985686 > > > > Fixes all issues, less downtime, less stress... > > etc... > ... > > ...and so forth > > . > ..and so on. > > > Resetting allows equipment to auto-correct issues > > Recalls to mind years ago in the Toll testroom where I work, the > evenings equipment man (charged with and assigned to the task of > repairing equipment that had been "patched out" by the day shift) would, > when he arrived for work each day, retrieve the piece of 2 X 4 from its > hiding place and whack each bay of relay-rich equipment as he walked in > the area. > > Then, after some coffee and a cigarette, he would go through the > trouble-ticket collection, retest the item, mark the ticket "NTF" and > proceed to the next item. I love that! Just goes to show the vast range of technical issues that can be readily righted with little more than a good thump with a hammer. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
