Re: Color vision for network techs
Tei: such applications exist, see http://dankaminsky.com/2010/12/15/dankam/ http://www.wpcentral.com/augmented-reality-app-windows-phone-ids-colors-real-world-video http://daily-steampunk.com/steampunk-blog/2012/05/27/augmented-reality-steampunk-and-learing-color-vacuum/ On Sep 3, 2012 5:07 AM, Tei oscar.vi...@gmail.com wrote: Standards can have bugs, and a standard that is not compatible with maybe 5% of the population is buggy. Almost any standard that start this is red and this is green is flawed this way. This mean any future standard created as to look into this type of stuff (and i18n and localization and others) to not create flawed buggy standards. Old standards can be updated ... (maybe include lines of the same color but different contrast), but we all know how hard is to update standards. If I where one of these dudes, I would download/create a app for my iphone that recolorice video to change colours to others I could tell the difference. -- -- ℱin del ℳensaje.
Re: Color vision for network techs
I can only imagine how making ethernet cables is a pain. The different colored wires, putting them in the RJ-45. That must be an impossible task for colorblind people. On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 1:31 PM, C. A. Fillekes cfille...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect that if this objectively measurable physical infirmity that actually inhibits one's job function were more common in women than men, it would be used as a reason to discourage us all from even entering the profession in the first place. -- Lukas Lozovski
Re: Color vision for network techs
Standards can have bugs, and a standard that is not compatible with maybe 5% of the population is buggy. Almost any standard that start this is red and this is green is flawed this way. This mean any future standard created as to look into this type of stuff (and i18n and localization and others) to not create flawed buggy standards. Old standards can be updated ... (maybe include lines of the same color but different contrast), but we all know how hard is to update standards. If I where one of these dudes, I would download/create a app for my iphone that recolorice video to change colours to others I could tell the difference. -- -- ℱin del ℳensaje.
Re: Color vision for network techs
The Military has colour screening for obvious reasons but I am not sure if it's needed for Networking. My take is that I designed all to have a wide variance. IE: Red, Blue, Yellow and Black which helped lower issues. Not solve them but if you limit the use of Red to certain areas (ie: Yellow / Red on one patch panel) then it helps. Yes, I did have a team lead who was colour blind and that did help to lead me down that path. When he was on our internet facing patch panel which was Red/Yellow if he saw black he knew it was Red. Sincerely, Larry A. LaBas(CD) On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 7:46 AM, telmn...@757.org wrote: When doing Cat5 connectors, a friend couldn't tell the orange versus brown (or was it green.) He found that with a red LED flashlight he could then tell. There are ways to work around things.
RE: Color vision for network techs
For pulling cable, the colors are fixed inside the jacket. I have found differences in cable manufacturers and prefer Mohawk brand cable because the colors are easier for me to see. White is white instead of clear. Blue, green, orange and brown are noticeably different. So, my take is stick to manufacturers that do a good job. If my tired old eyes can tell the difference, the employees that work with me probably won't have a problem. Regards, Jim Ray, President Neuse River Networks 2 Davis Drive, PO Box 13169 Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 919-838-1672 x100 www.NeuseRiverNetworks.com -Original Message- From: Larry LaBas [mailto:lla...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 10:55 AM To: telmn...@757.org Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Color vision for network techs The Military has colour screening for obvious reasons but I am not sure if it's needed for Networking. My take is that I designed all to have a wide variance. IE: Red, Blue, Yellow and Black which helped lower issues. Not solve them but if you limit the use of Red to certain areas (ie: Yellow / Red on one patch panel) then it helps. Yes, I did have a team lead who was colour blind and that did help to lead me down that path. When he was on our internet facing patch panel which was Red/Yellow if he saw black he knew it was Red. Sincerely, Larry A. LaBas(CD) On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 7:46 AM, telmn...@757.org wrote: When doing Cat5 connectors, a friend couldn't tell the orange versus brown (or was it green.) He found that with a red LED flashlight he could then tell. There are ways to work around things.
Re: Color vision for network techs
In high school I worked in a men's clothing store for a couple of years. One of the guys on the floor was pretty much completely color blind. It was kind of amusing and annoying at the same time as he'd run over to me when someone was in the dressing room to ask if this tie matched this shirt etc (um, NO!) So one day, I am not making this up, I asked him what he was studying at college and he said graphic design. I guess the right comment is no comment, or perhaps overcompensation much? But the example at hand is a much more narrow domain. -- -Barry Shein The World | b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD| Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool Die| Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Re: Color vision for network techs
I suspect that if this objectively measurable physical infirmity that actually inhibits one's job function were more common in women than men, it would be used as a reason to discourage us all from even entering the profession in the first place.
Re: Color vision for network techs
The simple solution for color perception issues is to carry some cheap red/green 3d glasses... they would make discriminating between LED colors as easy as closing one eye:)
Re: Color vision for network techs
You might consider the ADA act before you go too far down this road. I'm no expert, but it may apply... -Steve On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Berry Mobley be...@gadsdenst.org wrote: Hello, Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements. Berry Mobley
Re: Color vision for network techs
Maybe giving them access to a colormeter? :) http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/colorimeter-digital-color/id371113568?mt=8 On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Steve Meuse sme...@mara.org wrote: You might consider the ADA act before you go too far down this road. I'm no expert, but it may apply... -Steve On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Berry Mobley be...@gadsdenst.org wrote: Hello, Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements. Berry Mobley
Re: Color vision for network techs
On 12-08-31 08:15 AM, Berry Mobley wrote: Hello, Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements. I'm red/green deficient. It's not total - I can identify high saturation reds and greens that cover a large enough area. However, it is enough that when I look at a multi-colour status indicator, I'm left scratching my head. Many times, I've said to myself, There ought to be a law against using only the colour of light to indicate status. Of course, you know what they say about there ought to be a law Screening for colour vision is dubious, no matter how much it would help with grokking the status lights. Even without the discrimination angle, consider that a very nontrivial proportion of men are colour deficient (on the order of 5% if my information is correct). You would be reducing your possible talent pool. Instead of a colour vision requirement or policy, I would start screaming at equipment manufacturers for using only the colour of an indicator to show information. A tristate can easily be shown with steady, slow blink, and fast blink if there really is some compelling reason not to have multiple indicators. If everyone, especially large organizations, put pressure on equipment manufacturers, the problem could be largely eliminated.
Re: Color vision for network techs
When doing Cat5 connectors, a friend couldn't tell the orange versus brown (or was it green.) He found that with a red LED flashlight he could then tell. There are ways to work around things.
Re: Color vision for network techs
The ADA act does not allow people to have access to every single job regardless of their handicap. So, if something requires the ability to see certain colors, then that's a requirement. Scott On 8/31/12 10:30 AM, Philip Gladwin wrote: Maybe giving them access to a colormeter? :) http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/colorimeter-digital-color/id371113568?mt=8 On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Steve Meuse sme...@mara.org wrote: You might consider the ADA act before you go too far down this road. I'm no expert, but it may apply... -Steve On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Berry Mobley be...@gadsdenst.org wrote: Hello, Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements. Berry Mobley
Re: Color vision for network techs
On 31-08-12 16:15, Berry Mobley wrote: Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements. I have troubles with orange-yellow-greenish colors. Red is fine, most of greens as well. Already 15 years within the industry, several different jobs. Nobody ever asked me, but I think I mentioned it to all potential employers during interviews. For some of them it was funny or even interesting but I don't think anybody considered it as my disadvantage. Despite in most cases I cannot tell amber LED from yellow or orange one, I don't think it affects my duties. Usually different colors have also different luminosity, so shortly you learn characteristics of different products, like that with Cisco amber is the darker one. I have also seen blades with broken LED's that had all the colors but one (like 6704 port with green and no amber), so to be 100% sure one should always check the console. -- Grzegorz Janoszka
Re: Color vision for network techs
On 31/08/12 7:54 AM, Scott Morris wrote: The ADA act does not allow people to have access to every single job regardless of their handicap. So, if something requires the ability to see certain colors, then that's a requirement. Be careful about those requirements. The ADA requires employers to make reasonable accommodations to people with a handicap or disability. There are solutions such as using colored lenses to view LEDs or shining colored lights on objects (see the post about using a red flashlight to help with CAT5 wiring) that can aid those with color blindness issues. These solutions are not practical for certain jobs such as an airline pilot or train conductor where they can legally refuse to hire people who don't pass color vision tests. But the work-around solutions are likely to be considered reasonable accommodations for most jobs in the IT/Networking field. So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test. IANAL - if you have any questions be sure to get advice from an attorney - preferably one who specializes in employment law. jc
Re: Color vision for network techs
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:27:28 -0700, JC Dill said: So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test. There's something to be said for doing the test anyhow, and being prepared to deploy the accommodations, rather than find out the hard way that you have a problem after you've hired them and they've been doing splices for a while pgpkH85XXXOpB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Color vision for network techs
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 1:33 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:27:28 -0700, JC Dill said: So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test. There's something to be said for doing the test anyhow, and being prepared to deploy the accommodations, rather than find out the hard way that you have a problem after you've hired them and they've been doing splices for a while That's still asking for a lawsuit if its prior to job offer. -Blake
Re: Color vision for network techs
On Aug 31, 2012, at 12:27 PM, JC Dill jcdill.li...@gmail.com wrote: So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test. IANAL - if you have any questions be sure to get advice from an attorney - preferably one who specializes in employment law. Agreed. It's also a good idea to check with JAN if you're in the US, to see what accommodations they might suggest. I'd also add that it's the decent thing to do - if someone is qualified for the job, except for not being able to do one small part of the job the way you would imagine it being done, the right response is to find solutions, not immediately dismiss the qualified applicant. I had some involvement in the past with employees with vision disabilities. Many are trivial to accommodate. Tools I've personally seen used are the Seekey and colored pieces of plastic (overlays). The overlays are very cheap, not sure how much a Seekey costs. I'd also suggest asking the employee, since they have a vested interest in finding a solution. These would also work for terminating twisted pair cables. I've also seen an electronic pen-like device that was used by blind people, to determine if an LED was lit. We used this for a phone receptionist who needed to scan busy lights on a telephone while handling calls (I'd probably look at a softphone type solution today, but the phone system we used was definitely not softphone capable!). I don't know if it can tell the difference between red or green, nor do I remember what the thing was called. (also note that, depending on environment, reasonable accommodation might also mean asking a coworker what color the light is)
Re: Color vision for network techs
I installed monitoring software with different colored status dots, and discovered that we had three color-blind team members. After a pleasant hour's tweaking I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*.
Re: Color vision for network techs
On Aug 31, 2012, at 13:29 , Betsy Schwartz betsy.schwa...@gmail.com wrote: I installed monitoring software with different colored status dots, and discovered that we had three color-blind team members. After a pleasant hour's tweaking I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*. This sounds vaguely like a cereal commercial from when I was a kid. Was the application magically delicious ? Owen
Re: Color vision for network techs
From: Betsy Schwartz betsy.schwa...@gmail.com I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*. Is that the Lucky Charms style of icon generation? David Barak Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise: http://www.listentothefranchise.com
RE: Color vision for network techs
Yeah, I had that trouble with the old Cabletron (Enterasys) network management software. About 6% of Euro-American males suffer from Deuteranopia. I cannot see the difference between dark green and dark red. Bright green and bright red are better. It was not possible to adjust the Cabletron software. Contrary to popular belief, most of us can easily tell the difference between red and green traffic signals. Color-proficient readers can get an idea of our disability from this website that sells Photoshop filters for graphics artists: http://www.vischeck.com Check out the Examples. matthew black california state university, long beach -Original Message- From: Betsy Schwartz [mailto:betsy.schwa...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:30 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Color vision for network techs I installed monitoring software with different colored status dots, and discovered that we had three color-blind team members. After a pleasant hour's tweaking I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*.
Re: Color vision for network techs
On 8/31/12, Scott Morris s...@emanon.com wrote: Perhaps the more reasonable thing to do would be instead of administering vision tests; administer practical skill proficiency tests, so you will expose only issues that effect performance on tasks required for a job. Color vision is such an arbitrary thing that does not necessarily translate into better performance on the task you think requires it; some candidates might have poor performance on the job-relevant tasks because of it, some candidates might have effective workarounds that work for them. Of course buying better equipment is one workaround; it might not be an option, if your org already owns equipment or is contracted to support equipment with problematic displays. The number of tasks where color alone is essential should be very small, and it might be to your disadvantage to single out based on that criteria though. If a job requirement is that they do some splices, then have your candidates do some splices, and judge their test results based on accuracy and speed. If they have color vision issues, and it causes the performance issue you assume, for that particular task, then it should bear out in the test results. If a job requirement is that the person in that role can specifically read status lights; then find a way to administer a practical exam, that requires demonstrating the ability to identify the status of things and troubleshoot using the lights, and use the hardest kind of status lights they will have to deal with on the job, as the test material. If the candidate requires some device or tool to help them read the status light, then allow them to use any personal aid available that does not require the use of another person network connectivity, plugins to the equipment, modifications to hardware, or other unreasonable requirements, to complete the task. And notify them in advance of the test conditions. Ensure whomever administers the test will only report the performance on the task, as the test results, and not whether or not any kind of aids were required, to the interviewer, so only the performance data can be used to make the decision. The ADA act does not allow people to have access to every single job regardless of their handicap. So, if something requires the ability to see certain colors, then that's a requirement. The ADA does not guarantee access, but if the employer or place of business meets certain criteria (which some might not meet, and therefore be exempt), the law does prohibit certain kinds of discrimination when it is possible to make accommodations that will provide access and that meet certain criteria; it is not allowed to refuse to accommodate to provide access, when the law applies, and the reason for refusal fails to meet certain requirements. When you seek the advise from your attorney, they should inform you how the law may or may not apply to your organization, with the specific kind of hiring and pre-offer testing you are considering. Scott Regards, -- -JH
