Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
hi all, thanks for suggestions for this fault.. relay and capacitor triedit was indeed cured by a capacitor [0.47uf 630v] without the need for a relay. now i have another question! i am trying to find why GR43 number 15 on the schematic strikes as soon as power is applied and stays lit, until it gets is extinguish pulse, it then after a few seconds re-strikes, it should not strike until it receives a pulse from ER32 tube 8 on the schematic...i have changed capacitors and checked values of resistors around this tube and cant find a fault...is it safe as far as the GR43 to disconnect the trigger and leave it floating, at least then i know if it striking spontaneously or getting a trigger pulse when it should notthanks, bob On Friday, March 28, 2014 3:31:14 PM UTC, Dekatron42 wrote: Hi Bob, Would it be possible for you to use a relay in between the wiper contact and the trigger tube? Maybe the wiper could drive a relay and you then use the relay contacts to drive the trigger tube, just for testing if that will solve the problem. The problem with old SRBP PCB's is that contacts that rotate on them leave a track of dirt which will carry leakage currents. Sometimes you can get rid of this by washing them in an ultrasonic cleaner and also by bathing them in isopropyl alcohol, some need mechanical cleaning to remove the conducting track and some are impossible to clean enough which leaves the only option of letting them control a relay that then controls the original circuit. /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7218d03b-36d3-4843-b5e5-0c44a438d278%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
I still haven't looked closely to see what the wiper and track is and where it is on the schematic. That said, my capacitor suggestion wasn't worded that way. I suggest that the capacitor is wired such that one end is to the wiper arm and the other end is to the track that the wiper arm is supposed to contact. The capacitor is shorted out if everything is normal. Does your wording mean that too? Any photos of the track and wiper? John K Australia - Original Message - From: bob harper To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 8:27 PM Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents hhih hi martin, yes i am watching the GR43 on ebay! yes the 1st tube on the left i was referring to is marked ER32 [sorry thought schematic was posted up] it now has a GR44 installed in place [i have tried a couple] the fault has now been traced to the fact that the cathode connection to the solenoid is via a phenolic track on a pcb with a motor driven wiper arm carrying the connection this if momentarily loses continuity[the track is 50 years old] is enough to fire the GR44 and the solenoid...a capacitor has been suggested across the solenoid, which i have yet to try...bob On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:37:07 AM UTC, Dekatron42 wrote: Hi Bob, There is a GR43 for sale on Ebay UK here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GR43-VALVE-SUB-MINIATURE-GAS-TRIGGER-TUBE-CERBERUS-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/251484552167?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubeshash=item3a8da5bbe7 , maybe that seller has more if you need. I am sorry but I don't understand which of the trigger tubes you mean by the 1st tube on the left - what number is written close to the trigger tube? /Martin On Thursday, 27 March 2014 09:04:33 UTC+1, bob harper wrote: hi all...well i have finally got this thing working...all trigger tubes, in the selection system the countdown tubes in the credit unit and the 3 digital display nixie tubes...but ONE remaining problem. the 1st tube on the left in the schematic a GR44 [i have tried another as well] fires when it should, but also when it should not, i disconnected the trigger and it still fires...the problem [i think] is that the K cathode is connected via a wiper contact on a rotating arm to the reset solenoid, which although cleaned and adjusted and tested with the meter, must be occasionally losing its contact [bear in mind the etched track is 50 years old] for a split second...which i am assuming [here my knowledge gets hazy] that would allow the anode voltage to rise and trigger the tube? if this is the case, is there a solution to this? if not, my thought was to put in a relay which when the motor driving the rotating arm is running it opens the circuit from the cathode to the reset coil...any thoughts anyone? thanks, bob -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/df719e46-8a20-4577-b285-9d0720b19a57%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/BE3D227BCDED4CA59159814A0419B747%40compunet4f9da9. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
Thanks for the pic of the wiper. I trust the Electrolube brand products - http://www.electrolube.com/ Others swear by a very expensive American cleaner/lubricator. That one has cheap constituants that are marketed cheaply by others but those brands don't have the 'magic' apparently. The chemicals involved were discussed here or Tube Collectors Association group a few times. John K. - Original Message - From: bobharper...@gmail.com To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents hi thanks to you and Martin for replies yes meant to say cap across wiper not solenoid The gr44 does remain stable and will only fire if the trigger pulse is given as long as I don't revolve the wiper arm ,(I temporarily disconnected the drive motor) as soon as I reconnect it and it's revolving at full speed that's when the fault occurs thank bob ...clip.. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/DE4C3AC711AD474BB2F30EAD5EB6F944%40compunet4f9da9. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:52, John Rehwinkel wrote: The problem with old SRBP PCB's is that contacts that rotate on them leave a track of dirt which will carry leakage currents. What is SRBP? - John Synthetic resin bonded paper. John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/D148188E-35D9-445F-BF27-C8C81C927597%40jsdesign.co.uk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
Hi Bob, Would it be possible for you to use a relay in between the wiper contact and the trigger tube? Maybe the wiper could drive a relay and you then use the relay contacts to drive the trigger tube, just for testing if that will solve the problem. The problem with old SRBP PCB's is that contacts that rotate on them leave a track of dirt which will carry leakage currents. Sometimes you can get rid of this by washing them in an ultrasonic cleaner and also by bathing them in isopropyl alcohol, some need mechanical cleaning to remove the conducting track and some are impossible to clean enough which leaves the only option of letting them control a relay that then controls the original circuit. /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/169fd0e6-1fca-4006-8fe5-fce48e4ecd75%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
The problem with old SRBP PCB's is that contacts that rotate on them leave a track of dirt which will carry leakage currents. What is SRBP? - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/B9BB4E77-B252-440D-9041-B0226D050E77%40mac.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
On Friday, 28 March 2014 16:30:04 UTC, Nixcited delighted wrote: What is SRBP? Synthetic resin bonded paper. ...aka Paxolin or FR-2 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR-2 Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/5cec7e5c-1487-4eca-8015-5cbd1cfb8c07%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
Depends on how and where you disconnected the trigger - may need to load down that pin. Can you confirm that lifting the wiper DOES trigger the tube? You could set up the right conditions on the other pins [including trigger] and then interrupt that circuit manually. If it is a 'glitch' from the wiper, a capacitor/resistor network should improve things. Let's see what is forthcoming from all the others here. John K Australia - Original Message - From: bob harper To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:34 PM Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents hi all...well i have finally got this thing working...all trigger tubes, in the selection system the countdown tubes in the credit unit and the 3 digital display nixie tubes...but ONE remaining problem. the 1st tube on the left in the schematic a GR44 [i have tried another as well] fires when it should, but also when it should not, i disconnected the trigger and it still fires...the problem [i think] is that the K cathode is connected via a wiper contact on a rotating arm to the reset solenoid, which although cleaned and adjusted and tested with the meter, must be occasionally losing its contact [bear in mind the etched track is 50 years old] for a split second...clip. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/A7552ABCC17545249339C8D11AEDCD0B%40compunet4f9da9. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
Hi right I have broken the circuit to the solenoid from the cathode of the gr44 all other wiring reconnected as schematic it does indeed fire the gr44 and the solenoid if momentary disconnected so that does seem to be the source of the fault. Bob On 27 Mar 2014 09:33, JohnK yend...@internode.on.net wrote: Depends on how and where you disconnected the trigger - may need to load down that pin. Can you confirm that lifting the wiper DOES trigger the tube? You could set up the right conditions on the other pins [including trigger] and then interrupt that circuit manually. If it is a 'glitch' from the wiper, a capacitor/resistor network should improve things. Let's see what is forthcoming from all the others here. John K Australia - Original Message - *From:* bob harper bobharper...@gmail.com *To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:34 PM *Subject:* [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents hi all...well i have finally got this thing working...all trigger tubes, in the selection system the countdown tubes in the credit unit and the 3 digital display nixie tubes...but ONE remaining problem. the 1st tube on the left in the schematic a GR44 [i have tried another as well] fires when it should, but also when it should not, i disconnected the trigger and it still fires...the problem [i think] is that the K cathode is connected via a wiper contact on a rotating arm to the reset solenoid, which although cleaned and adjusted and tested with the meter, must be occasionally losing its contact [bear in mind the etched track is 50 years old] for a split second...clip. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/DfIGLpwsuMk/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/A7552ABCC17545249339C8D11AEDCD0B%40compunet4f9da9https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/A7552ABCC17545249339C8D11AEDCD0B%40compunet4f9da9?utm_medium=emailutm_source=footer . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAM9UkxKAytBLmPOSR7hb4W7BpuEAYn5SPqjkhbav%3D20P3spKvw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
Maybe a capacitor across the wiper contact will solve it. The capacitor would normally be shorted by the wiper making correct contact. A momentary opening would be swamped by the uncharged capacitor. The capacitor may need a small series resistance to reduce the current from the capacitor when the wiper shorts it again. [ I hope - I can't picture the wiper etc that you mention. Want to hear from others too.] John K. - Original Message - From: bob harper To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents Hi right I have broken the circuit to the solenoid from the cathode of the gr44 all other wiring reconnected as schematic it does indeed fire the gr44 and the solenoid if momentary disconnected so that does seem to be the source of the fault. Bob On 27 Mar 2014 09:33, JohnK yend...@internode.on.net wrote: Depends on how and where you disconnected the trigger - may need to load down that pin. Can you confirm that lifting the wiper DOES trigger the tube? You could set up the right conditions on the other pins [including trigger] and then interrupt that circuit manually. If it is a 'glitch' from the wiper, a capacitor/resistor network should improve things. Let's see what is forthcoming from all the others here. John K Australia - Original Message - From: bob harper To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:34 PM Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents hi all...well i have finally got this thing working...all trigger tubes, in the selection system the countdown tubes in the credit unit and the 3 digital display nixie tubes...but ONE remaining problem. the 1st tube on the left in the schematic a GR44 [i have tried another as well] fires when it should, but also when it should not, i disconnected the trigger and it still fires...the problem [i think] is that the K cathode is connected via a wiper contact on a rotating arm to the reset solenoid, which although cleaned and adjusted and tested with the meter, must be occasionally losing its contact [bear in mind the etched track is 50 years old] for a split second...clip. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/DfIGLpwsuMk/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/A7552ABCC17545249339C8D11AEDCD0B%40compunet4f9da9. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAM9UkxKAytBLmPOSR7hb4W7BpuEAYn5SPqjkhbav%3D20P3spKvw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/DCFA44E0BBE54F34B73A014C66D48D9B%40compunet4f9da9. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
On CLOSE examination, I note that all of the insulating sleeves are discolored, and the discoloration becomes darker the closer you get to the base of the tube. I would guess that the discoloration is from being exposed to long hours of heat from the tube. One insulating sleeve is also cracked, which to me is another indication of long hours of heat, possibly age, and probably 'reckless handling' when being removed from the circuit that it was soldered into. Which brings me to my last and final point. Note the solder, on the only two leads that are visible in the photo. If it is new where is the box that it came in, with the name Elesta and the number ER-32 clearly labeled on the box? I did go and search on Google for an image of 'ER-32', and 'ER-32 trigger', and 'ER-32 trigger tube', to no avail. Also searched on Frank.pocnet.net, and also Jeremy H. Harmers collection on line for some sort of a photo of hopefully a new one, but to no avail. My collection of over 5000 tubes, does not have an example. I'm a member of Tube Collerctors Association, TCA, so I'll ask there for you as well. Looks used to me. I would certainly communicate the above observations and concerns to the seller. His feedback is quite good, so hopefully you will get some honest answers to your concerns. On the other hand he clearly states in the ad text, NO GUARANTY, NO RETURN, if my German is till good enough. Why is that if the tube is NEW?? Good luck, and let us know how you make out. I guess that if you went ahead and bought it, and it arrived to you and was obviously USED, you could file a claim with Ebay to get your funds back, but that's a long and messy process.Ira. On 2/24/2014 11:03 PM, Dekatron42 wrote: There are 9 ER32's for sale on eBay right now, looks used from the photo but it says new in the auction text, the auction is for just one piece but the seller says he has 9 for sale. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kaltkathodenrohren-Rohre-Elektronenrohre-ELESTA-ER-32-/380850336785?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Sonstigehash=item58ac72f411 /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/5d5669cf-8b09-4983-a970-a1b0e4fd871a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/530C617C.8090900%40HUGHES.NET. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. attachment: IRACOSALES.vcf
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
There were 50 sold s few weeks ago on Ebay UK : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-capacitors-x-50-small-ER32-A-ELESTA-new-swiss-15-fuse-amp-/261386179279?nma=truesi=tnNIKXvFcb6%252FkXHteD2N2XwObYM%253Dorig_cvip=truert=nc_trksid=p2047675.l2557 perhaps someone can contact that seller and see if he has more information/photos. /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/0ea36394-b1d1-4a3d-853f-23efbe905fce%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
From the photos you can see that they did NOT come with any insulating sleeves on the wire leads. The leads are also quite straight. They appear to be tinned, with no large ugly blobs of solder on the ends of the leads. They are in a factory original carton. Just about what I would expect for NEW. Ira. On 2/25/2014 1:29 AM, Dekatron42 wrote: There were 50 sold s few weeks ago on Ebay UK : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-capacitors-x-50-small-ER32-A-ELESTA-new-swiss-15-fuse-amp-/261386179279?nma=truesi=tnNIKXvFcb6%252FkXHteD2N2XwObYM%253Dorig_cvip=truert=nc_trksid=p2047675.l2557 perhaps someone can contact that seller and see if he has more information/photos. /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/0ea36394-b1d1-4a3d-853f-23efbe905fce%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/530C653C.4060109%40HUGHES.NET. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. attachment: IRACOSALES.vcf
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
hi thanks for the info. Will keep my eye on it. Bob Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: Dekatron42 martin.forsb...@gmail.com To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents Date: Tue, Feb 25, 2014 07:03 There are 9 ER32's for sale on eBay right now, looks used from the photo but it says new in the auction text, the auction is for just one piece but the seller says he has 9 for sale. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kaltkathodenrohren-Rohre-Elektronenrohre-ELESTA-ER-32-/380850336785?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Sonstigehash=item58ac72f411 /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/Z4ZINPsA4fI/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all of its topics, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/5d5669cf-8b09-4983-a970-a1b0e4fd871a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/530c7474.634dc20a.088a.2888%40mx.google.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
There are 9 ER32's for sale on eBay right now, looks used from the photo but it says new in the auction text, the auction is for just one piece but the seller says he has 9 for sale. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kaltkathodenrohren-Rohre-Elektronenrohre-ELESTA-ER-32-/380850336785?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Sonstigehash=item58ac72f411 /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/5d5669cf-8b09-4983-a970-a1b0e4fd871a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
Bob I also think that the applied voltage to the resistor in the anode circuit has to be lower than the voltage needed for the anode-cathode to strike itself. If higher then the R-C-tube will act as a relaxtion oscillator. The voltage must be higher than the voltage that will fire the anode-cathode gap when the tube when the grid is triggered (which must be the case now). The capacitor then provides the energy to operate the solinoid and will discharge to a low voltage and the tube will self extinguish. So you might compare the voltage with the datasheet (which I don't have) to check it is below the anode-cathode firing voltage. And/or disconnect the trigger signal and see if the tube continues to flash - ie it is acting as a relaxation oscillator and not being triggered. I have some Z700U, if you would like a couple PM me with your address. Grahame On 16/02/2014 11:25, bob harper wrote: ok i have checked all the resistors around this tube and replaced all caps still no good...i have doing a bit of reading cold cathode tubes my dance and circuit design by neal [free book downloads] and it seems to me that this circuit would need a pulse to fire and be extinguished by the 16uf cap charging, but with a permantly live trigger this cycle would repeat [exactly what its doing] which will not do the tube much good as the trigger voltage should be removed before the anode voltage [if i read it right] so i think either the diagram is wrong [unlikely] or the switching on the jukebox has been altered/bodged i thought about using the switched live K3 to feed a relay and timing capacitor to give a pulse to the tube unless there is a way of again using a capacitor in the trigger circuit to charge up between the trigger and cathode to give them the same potential while the tube is in the conducting state.bob On Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:35:23 PM UTC, bob harper wrote: hi Martin thanks for the reply yes I did tie the triggers together and replaced the 16 if cap will double check all the other components and check the anode current thanks bob Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: Dekatron42 martin.forsb...@gmail.com mailto:martin.forsb...@gmail.com To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents Date: Sat, Feb 15, 2014 12:32 Did you wire both trigger electrodes together, the Z660W have two trigger electrodes but the ER32 only one. You must also check that the minimum anode current is 5mA as the Z660W might otherwise work unreliably in some situation according to the datasheet. You might also have to check the capacitor connected to the anode as well as the anode resistor as those form the circuit that extinguishes the trigger tube, turning it off, and if they do not work properly the tube might not be fully extinguished and then it will turn on again - the capacitor might leaky opr any of the other capacitors/resistors surrounding this trigger tube might be leaky or having the wrong value. Also don't forget to replace resistors with types that can handle the voltage in these circuits, many cheap resistors sold today only tolerate 125V or 250V which won't do in circuits like these! /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/DfIGLpwsuMk/unsubscribe. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/DfIGLpwsuMk/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all of its topics, send an email toneonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email toneonixi...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bb6e19d6-a886-49b9-afdd-cfbc553c7821%40googlegroups.com. https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bb6e19d6-a886-49b9-afdd-cfbc553c7821%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/02ee9f47-a37b-40af-9b97-f449a701f964%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
The trigger should not stay on, the capacitor before the trigger electrode should only produce a pulse, unless there is a leakage current flowing to the trigger through this capacitor. You can test this by lowering the 22M resistor to ground to lets say 10M and see if the circuit behaves in a similar way, I have seen circuits with even lower resistor values down to just 2.2M. You might have to change the type of capacitor used and use a type similar to the ones in the original circuit. There are also some small differences between the ER32 and the Z660W that you use that might affect the circuit, the Z661W is a closer replacement according to the RFT databook. /Martin On Sunday, 16 February 2014 12:25:34 UTC+1, bob harper wrote: ok i have checked all the resistors around this tube and replaced all caps still no good...i have doing a bit of reading cold cathode tubes my dance and circuit design by neal [free book downloads] and it seems to me that this circuit would need a pulse to fire and be extinguished by the 16uf cap charging, but with a permantly live trigger this cycle would repeat [exactly what its doing] which will not do the tube much good as the trigger voltage should be removed before the anode voltage [if i read it right] so i think either the diagram is wrong [unlikely] or the switching on the jukebox has been altered/bodged i thought about using the switched live K3 to feed a relay and timing capacitor to give a pulse to the tube unless there is a way of again using a capacitor in the trigger circuit to charge up between the trigger and cathode to give them the same potential while the tube is in the conducting state.bob On Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:35:23 PM UTC, bob harper wrote: hi Martin thanks for the reply yes I did tie the triggers together and replaced the 16 if cap will double check all the other components and check the anode current thanks bob Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: Dekatron42 martin@gmail.com javascript: To: neoni...@googlegroups.com javascript: Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents Date: Sat, Feb 15, 2014 12:32 Did you wire both trigger electrodes together, the Z660W have two trigger electrodes but the ER32 only one. You must also check that the minimum anode current is 5mA as the Z660W might otherwise work unreliably in some situation according to the datasheet. You might also have to check the capacitor connected to the anode as well as the anode resistor as those form the circuit that extinguishes the trigger tube, turning it off, and if they do not work properly the tube might not be fully extinguished and then it will turn on again - the capacitor might leaky opr any of the other capacitors/resistors surrounding this trigger tube might be leaky or having the wrong value. Also don't forget to replace resistors with types that can handle the voltage in these circuits, many cheap resistors sold today only tolerate 125V or 250V which won't do in circuits like these! /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/DfIGLpwsuMk/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all of its topics, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bb6e19d6-a886-49b9-afdd-cfbc553c7821%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/5e735dbe-0b02-451a-9d4e-717d1bd7ec40%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
hi Martin thanks for the reply yes I did tie the triggers together and replaced the 16 if cap will double check all the other components and check the anode current thanks bob Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: Dekatron42 martin.forsb...@gmail.com To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents Date: Sat, Feb 15, 2014 12:32 Did you wire both trigger electrodes together, the Z660W have two trigger electrodes but the ER32 only one. You must also check that the minimum anode current is 5mA as the Z660W might otherwise work unreliably in some situation according to the datasheet. You might also have to check the capacitor connected to the anode as well as the anode resistor as those form the circuit that extinguishes the trigger tube, turning it off, and if they do not work properly the tube might not be fully extinguished and then it will turn on again - the capacitor might leaky opr any of the other capacitors/resistors surrounding this trigger tube might be leaky or having the wrong value. Also don't forget to replace resistors with types that can handle the voltage in these circuits, many cheap resistors sold today only tolerate 125V or 250V which won't do in circuits like these! /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/DfIGLpwsuMk/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all of its topics, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bb6e19d6-a886-49b9-afdd-cfbc553c7821%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/52ff976e.486ec20a.3046.b3f7%40mx.google.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents
hi all, have now got the schematic, for you experts to look over! Looks like I was wrong, the tube you identified as ER33 really is an ER33 (that's no G on the schematic). Unfortunately, unlike the other tubes, the schematic doesn't show what the various leads are. also as the power supply is missing, it looks like its a just a isolation transformer at 220v is it worth going for a 240220? I doubt it, and a 1:1 transformer will likely be easier to find. You can always add another 12-24V transformer wired to buck the voltage if you want to drop it a little with common parts. also the original design used a pair of OA2 regulaters, solid state be better and easier? Solid state would be easier (you can get zeners for that voltage). As for better, you have two choices. The 0A2s are actually less noisy than equivalent voltage zeners, however I don't think noise is an issue here (this isn't audio circuitry). You could also use a series regulated supply, which would likely be more efficient (doing away with that 16 watt series resistor) than the existing shunt-regulated version. It would also be quieter, but not easier - a series regulated supply is more complex. unfortunately the DC voltage is not shown A 0A2 regulates at 150 volts, so with two of 'em in series, you'll get 300 volts. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/E6678313-70FD-4639-B389-4F4BC8473AF5%40mac.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
