Re: [NetBehaviour] whatever

[Andreas Maria Jacobs]

There is nothing to hold on

"Nothing but Heart, Low"

http://www.nictoglobe.com/new/room/New%20Room/ma201112.html

Best

A.

On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Pall Thayer wrote:

> When we create “art”, we strive to do something new. We put all our
> energy into compiling our emotions, our feelings, our experiences into
> a comprehensive whole. However, that comprehension is always personal.
> We can not separate our creative expression from our creative
> compulsions or energies. The outcome is what it is. It is a personal
> reflection of our personal interpretation of our time.
>  The notion of “timeless art” is a myth, perpetuated by who knows what
> (or who)... how can a work of art be timeless? It is always a product
> of its time. To perceive it otherwise would be absurd. If Les
> Demoiselles d'Avignon had never previously been produced, would we
> accept it today as a remarkable work of art? I don't think so. Its
> production was very much tied to its time. Its importance is equally
> tied to its time of production. It represents a break from its own
> contemporary tradition - but not even a drastic break. It falls within
> its own contemporary explorations into african art (which had already
> been pursued by Ingres, in his own manner and had also influenced the
> likes of Manet but we could go on forever). Picasso was not the
> only one exploring these avenues. But that is beyond my point. We live
> in a time. Yes, the period is supposed to be there. We live in a time.
> It is our time. As Lilly Allen stated, “No, you can't have my number
> 'cause I lost my phone.” Lost my phone? When I was her age, my phone
> never left my home! But times change. We live in an age where you may
> “lose your phone”.  And what goes with losing your phone? You lose
> your identity! No... you don't. Your identity is as secure as you made
> it... what?... your username was the same as your password? You
> idio you dear, dear child.
> I reviewed the work of an “internet artist” recently. Oh... here we
> go... someone addressing his time, his culture! He uses the fact that
> contemporary culture has provided us a plethora of personal imagery.
> This is good. His website contains compelling images of his own
> manipulations of images. His own manipulations of images his own
> man... Excuse me, what are you doing to these images? How are you
> choosing these images. Yes, your end results are compelling but what
> is your process? That would be far more compelling. Please don't tell
> me that you lost your phone. The only thing that truly speakes to your
> time, is your method. And you choose to veil that behind the eye-candy
> of your output? Um... ok.
> As I drunkenly leave my seat to explore the opportunities provided me
> by a destructive cannon of highly inflammabale tobacco, I deplore you
> to consider the issues; what exactly defines our time? Our culture? I
> think Lily Allen hit the nail on the head for her target group. As you
> consider where we might be, I'll be out on the stoop, smoking a
> cigarette. I expect a coherent answer when I get back.
> -- 
> *
> Pall Thayer
> artist
> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
> *
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>

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Re: [NetBehaviour] whatever

[James Morris]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:45:43 +0100
Annie Abrahams  wrote:

> Thanks Pall for these thoughts.
> 
> You are the only one that can give yourself a coherent answer.

I won't be providing a coherent answer out of principle... The principle
being not to meet the demands of terrorists... Based on the principle
discussion is a foreign policy not to be entertaining. And so on.



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Re: [NetBehaviour] whatever

[James Morris]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 10:27:43 +
Simon Biggs  wrote:

> That's one (rather romantic) model for making art. The use of the
> word "we" here is problematic. Many do not make art for these kinds
> of reasons (to express themselves and/or be novel).
> 
> I agree with you about "timelessness" though. Everything is in
> "time", just as it is of "stuff".

But there are works which retain their power through the decades,
and centuries, and works which loose it within a year. The former is
what I currently assume works referred to as timeless have over other
works. But also I think there is the magical sense also attached to this
which the media will try to emphasise and exploit and place preference
on in promotional material.

James.


> 
> best
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> On 17 Dec 2011, at 08:42, Pall Thayer wrote:
> 
> > When we create “art”, we strive to do something new. We put all our
> > energy into compiling our emotions, our feelings, our experiences
> > into a comprehensive whole. However, that comprehension is always
> > personal. We can not separate our creative expression from our
> > creative compulsions or energies. The outcome is what it is. It is
> > a personal reflection of our personal interpretation of our time.
> >  The notion of “timeless art” is a myth, perpetuated by who knows
> > what (or who)... how can a work of art be timeless? It is always a
> > product of its time. To perceive it otherwise would be absurd. If
> > Les Demoiselles d'Avignon had never previously been produced, would
> > we accept it today as a remarkable work of art? I don't think so.
> > Its production was very much tied to its time. Its importance is
> > equally tied to its time of production. It represents a break from
> > its own contemporary tradition - but not even a drastic break. It
> > falls within its own contemporary explorations into african art
> > (which had already been pursued by Ingres, in his own manner and
> > had also influenced the likes of Manet but we could go on
> > forever). Picasso was not the only one exploring these avenues. But
> > that is beyond my point. We live in a time. Yes, the period is
> > supposed to be there. We live in a time. It is our time. As Lilly
> > Allen stated, “No, you can't have my number 'cause I lost my
> > phone.” Lost my phone? When I was her age, my phone never left my
> > home! But times change. We live in an age where you may “lose your
> > phone”.  And what goes with losing your phone? You lose your
> > identity! No... you don't. Your identity is as secure as you made
> > it... what?... your username was the same as your password? You
> > idio you dear, dear child. I reviewed the work of an “internet
> > artist” recently. Oh... here we go... someone addressing his time,
> > his culture! He uses the fact that contemporary culture has
> > provided us a plethora of personal imagery. This is good. His
> > website contains compelling images of his own manipulations of
> > images. His own manipulations of images his own man... Excuse
> > me, what are you doing to these images? How are you choosing these
> > images. Yes, your end results are compelling but what is your
> > process? That would be far more compelling. Please don't tell me
> > that you lost your phone. The only thing that truly speakes to your
> > time, is your method. And you choose to veil that behind the
> > eye-candy of your output? Um... ok. As I drunkenly leave my seat to
> > explore the opportunities provided me by a destructive cannon of
> > highly inflammabale tobacco, I deplore you to consider the issues;
> > what exactly defines our time? Our culture? I think Lily Allen hit
> > the nail on the head for her target group. As you consider where we
> > might be, I'll be out on the stoop, smoking a cigarette. I expect a
> > coherent answer when I get back. -- 
> > *
> > Pall Thayer
> > artist
> > http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
> > *
> > ___
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> > 
> 
> 
> Simon Biggs
> si...@littlepig.org.uk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ @SimonBiggsUK
> skype: simonbiggsuk
> 
> s.bi...@ed.ac.uk Edinburgh College of Art, University of Edinburgh
> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ http://www.elmcip.net/
> http://www.movingtargets.co.uk/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour



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Re: [NetBehaviour] whatever

[Annie Abrahams]

Thanks Pall for these thoughts.

You are the only one that can give yourself a coherent answer.

Best
Annie

My time is defined by delays.

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Pall Thayer  wrote:

> When we create “art”, we strive to do something new. We put all our
> energy into compiling our emotions, our feelings, our experiences into
> a comprehensive whole. However, that comprehension is always personal.
> We can not separate our creative expression from our creative
> compulsions or energies. The outcome is what it is. It is a personal
> reflection of our personal interpretation of our time.
>  The notion of “timeless art” is a myth, perpetuated by who knows what
> (or who)... how can a work of art be timeless? It is always a product
> of its time. To perceive it otherwise would be absurd. If Les
> Demoiselles d'Avignon had never previously been produced, would we
> accept it today as a remarkable work of art? I don't think so. Its
> production was very much tied to its time. Its importance is equally
> tied to its time of production. It represents a break from its own
> contemporary tradition - but not even a drastic break. It falls within
> its own contemporary explorations into african art (which had already
> been pursued by Ingres, in his own manner and had also influenced the
> likes of Manet but we could go on forever). Picasso was not the
> only one exploring these avenues. But that is beyond my point. We live
> in a time. Yes, the period is supposed to be there. We live in a time.
> It is our time. As Lilly Allen stated, “No, you can't have my number
> 'cause I lost my phone.” Lost my phone? When I was her age, my phone
> never left my home! But times change. We live in an age where you may
> “lose your phone”.  And what goes with losing your phone? You lose
> your identity! No... you don't. Your identity is as secure as you made
> it... what?... your username was the same as your password? You
> idio you dear, dear child.
> I reviewed the work of an “internet artist” recently. Oh... here we
> go... someone addressing his time, his culture! He uses the fact that
> contemporary culture has provided us a plethora of personal imagery.
> This is good. His website contains compelling images of his own
> manipulations of images. His own manipulations of images his own
> man... Excuse me, what are you doing to these images? How are you
> choosing these images. Yes, your end results are compelling but what
> is your process? That would be far more compelling. Please don't tell
> me that you lost your phone. The only thing that truly speakes to your
> time, is your method. And you choose to veil that behind the eye-candy
> of your output? Um... ok.
> As I drunkenly leave my seat to explore the opportunities provided me
> by a destructive cannon of highly inflammabale tobacco, I deplore you
> to consider the issues; what exactly defines our time? Our culture? I
> think Lily Allen hit the nail on the head for her target group. As you
> consider where we might be, I'll be out on the stoop, smoking a
> cigarette. I expect a coherent answer when I get back.
> --
> *
> Pall Thayer
> artist
> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
> *
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>



-- 

Duet - Satz 1, 2, 3 et 4 - Conversations between Antye Greie (aka AGF) and
Annie Abrahams II*
December 14, 15 and 16 from 7 PM til 7.30 PM (Paris time)*
4 Domestic Streaming Performances
http://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/duet-satz-1-2-3-et-4/*
**
**Extrait en photo et son **de la performance* HUIS-CLOS / NO EXIT Training
for a Better World
http://www.documentary-art.net/tag/watch-now.php?&ref=344

*Paris-art.com | Interview | Annie Abrahams |*
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Re: [NetBehaviour] whatever

[Simon Biggs]

That's one (rather romantic) model for making art. The use of the word "we" 
here is problematic. Many do not make art for these kinds of reasons (to 
express themselves and/or be novel).

I agree with you about "timelessness" though. Everything is in "time", just as 
it is of "stuff".

best

Simon


On 17 Dec 2011, at 08:42, Pall Thayer wrote:

> When we create “art”, we strive to do something new. We put all our
> energy into compiling our emotions, our feelings, our experiences into
> a comprehensive whole. However, that comprehension is always personal.
> We can not separate our creative expression from our creative
> compulsions or energies. The outcome is what it is. It is a personal
> reflection of our personal interpretation of our time.
>  The notion of “timeless art” is a myth, perpetuated by who knows what
> (or who)... how can a work of art be timeless? It is always a product
> of its time. To perceive it otherwise would be absurd. If Les
> Demoiselles d'Avignon had never previously been produced, would we
> accept it today as a remarkable work of art? I don't think so. Its
> production was very much tied to its time. Its importance is equally
> tied to its time of production. It represents a break from its own
> contemporary tradition - but not even a drastic break. It falls within
> its own contemporary explorations into african art (which had already
> been pursued by Ingres, in his own manner and had also influenced the
> likes of Manet but we could go on forever). Picasso was not the
> only one exploring these avenues. But that is beyond my point. We live
> in a time. Yes, the period is supposed to be there. We live in a time.
> It is our time. As Lilly Allen stated, “No, you can't have my number
> 'cause I lost my phone.” Lost my phone? When I was her age, my phone
> never left my home! But times change. We live in an age where you may
> “lose your phone”.  And what goes with losing your phone? You lose
> your identity! No... you don't. Your identity is as secure as you made
> it... what?... your username was the same as your password? You
> idio you dear, dear child.
> I reviewed the work of an “internet artist” recently. Oh... here we
> go... someone addressing his time, his culture! He uses the fact that
> contemporary culture has provided us a plethora of personal imagery.
> This is good. His website contains compelling images of his own
> manipulations of images. His own manipulations of images his own
> man... Excuse me, what are you doing to these images? How are you
> choosing these images. Yes, your end results are compelling but what
> is your process? That would be far more compelling. Please don't tell
> me that you lost your phone. The only thing that truly speakes to your
> time, is your method. And you choose to veil that behind the eye-candy
> of your output? Um... ok.
> As I drunkenly leave my seat to explore the opportunities provided me
> by a destructive cannon of highly inflammabale tobacco, I deplore you
> to consider the issues; what exactly defines our time? Our culture? I
> think Lily Allen hit the nail on the head for her target group. As you
> consider where we might be, I'll be out on the stoop, smoking a
> cigarette. I expect a coherent answer when I get back.
> -- 
> *
> Pall Thayer
> artist
> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
> *
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 


Simon Biggs
si...@littlepig.org.uk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ @SimonBiggsUK skype: 
simonbiggsuk

s.bi...@ed.ac.uk Edinburgh College of Art, University of Edinburgh
http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ http://www.elmcip.net/ 
http://www.movingtargets.co.uk/




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[NetBehaviour] whatever

[Pall Thayer]

When we create “art”, we strive to do something new. We put all our
energy into compiling our emotions, our feelings, our experiences into
a comprehensive whole. However, that comprehension is always personal.
We can not separate our creative expression from our creative
compulsions or energies. The outcome is what it is. It is a personal
reflection of our personal interpretation of our time.
 The notion of “timeless art” is a myth, perpetuated by who knows what
(or who)... how can a work of art be timeless? It is always a product
of its time. To perceive it otherwise would be absurd. If Les
Demoiselles d'Avignon had never previously been produced, would we
accept it today as a remarkable work of art? I don't think so. Its
production was very much tied to its time. Its importance is equally
tied to its time of production. It represents a break from its own
contemporary tradition - but not even a drastic break. It falls within
its own contemporary explorations into african art (which had already
been pursued by Ingres, in his own manner and had also influenced the
likes of Manet but we could go on forever). Picasso was not the
only one exploring these avenues. But that is beyond my point. We live
in a time. Yes, the period is supposed to be there. We live in a time.
It is our time. As Lilly Allen stated, “No, you can't have my number
'cause I lost my phone.” Lost my phone? When I was her age, my phone
never left my home! But times change. We live in an age where you may
“lose your phone”.  And what goes with losing your phone? You lose
your identity! No... you don't. Your identity is as secure as you made
it... what?... your username was the same as your password? You
idio you dear, dear child.
I reviewed the work of an “internet artist” recently. Oh... here we
go... someone addressing his time, his culture! He uses the fact that
contemporary culture has provided us a plethora of personal imagery.
This is good. His website contains compelling images of his own
manipulations of images. His own manipulations of images his own
man... Excuse me, what are you doing to these images? How are you
choosing these images. Yes, your end results are compelling but what
is your process? That would be far more compelling. Please don't tell
me that you lost your phone. The only thing that truly speakes to your
time, is your method. And you choose to veil that behind the eye-candy
of your output? Um... ok.
As I drunkenly leave my seat to explore the opportunities provided me
by a destructive cannon of highly inflammabale tobacco, I deplore you
to consider the issues; what exactly defines our time? Our culture? I
think Lily Allen hit the nail on the head for her target group. As you
consider where we might be, I'll be out on the stoop, smoking a
cigarette. I expect a coherent answer when I get back.
-- 
*
Pall Thayer
artist
http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
*
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[max d. well]

hello all,

it maybe about time to have a look again at things second life.

i use second life as one of many tools in media art since 2006.

the possibilities to use it in networked art are many
maybe as best example the avatar orchestra metaverse
(AOM)
artists from different places  in europe and north america play together on
big screens at music festivals all over the world,
often with members of the orchestra also playing live.

then with the media art group pomodoro bolzano we presented 3 festivals
exploring mixxed reality.
-> art.xxXtenxion
->
 art.clouds 
09

currently firieda korda and me are just having an exhibition in SL.
we are simulating the vision of a possible real life RL  exhibition which we
only can't afford to install by ourselves.
so this is looking for a producer recognizing the huge potential of it also
for RL.

have a look at the
e-bookorjust
go and experience it
yourselves
.


grüssings
maxxo klaar




On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 2:13 PM, marc garrett
wrote:

> Whatever happened to Second Life?
>
> Barry Collins
>
> It's desolate, dirty, and sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry
> Collins returns to Second Life to find out what went wrong, and why it’s
> raking in more cash than ever before
>
> Three years ago, I underwent one of the most eye-opening experiences of
> my life – and I barely even left the office.
>
> I spent a week virtually living and breathing inside Second Life: the
> massively multiplayer online world that contains everything from lottery
> games to libraries, penthouses to pubs, skyscrapers to surrogacy clinics.
>
> Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex.
>
> Back then, the world and his dog were falling over themselves to “be
> a part of it”. Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs,
> Microsoft and IBM were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host
> staff training seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to
> report back on the latest in-world developments.
>
> more...
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life
> ___
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> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour




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-- 
≈~≈~≈~≈~≈~≈~≈~≈~≈
pomodoro bolzano
media art work

http://derblauedynamo.blogspot.com
http://artclouds.blogspot.com
http://xxxtenxion.blogspot.com
http://artthinkbox.blogspot.com

www.pbspace.de
www.artbirthday.com
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[Ana Valdés]

I was sceptical towards the idea to, again, discuss Second Life. It's deja
vu, friends, really deja vu. We had a great discussion in Netbehaviour for
some years ago and I keep the messages archived, I checked them today and I
think the most about SL was already said then, at that time.
As all virtual environments they tend to grow older and be substituted by
new ones. Facebook and SL were never equivalent, the interface in SL is more
appealing and you can do a lot more things. I think the problem with SL has
always been (for me, at least) the ambition of reproducing the real life.
Why build houses with doors ans stairs when yoou have flying avatars? Why do
you need couchs, beds and kitchens when you lack smells or a body who need
sleep?
I think that for me SL had been a lot more attractive if they had developed
a more specific content, things exclusive to SL. Casino and gambling and sex
are boring when you can have the real thing :)
Ana

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Antonio Roberts wrote:

> It's not dead, it's not dying. It's changing into something different.
>
> Whenever there's any new thing introduced, be it virtual worlds,
> social networks or touch-screen phones, people are always quick to say
> it'll never catch on or wont be around for long. Well, Second Life has
> been around for years and it's still going strong.
>
> In many ways it reflects real life and its subcultures. Sure there's
> porn (was) gambling and small wolves trying to fuck your face find
> that in any popular network. Think about Twitter: when it's not trying
> to get you to click on ad-ridden websites it's trying to get you to
> click on links to Britney being fucked.
>
> As long as there's people with a wide variety of interests there'll
> always be networks to accommodate them.
>
> Ant
>
> 2010/1/6 marc garrett :
> > Whatever happened to Second Life?
> >
> > Barry Collins
> >
> > It's desolate, dirty, and sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry
> > Collins returns to Second Life to find out what went wrong, and why it’s
> > raking in more cash than ever before
> >
> > Three years ago, I underwent one of the most eye-opening experiences of
> > my life – and I barely even left the office.
> >
> > I spent a week virtually living and breathing inside Second Life: the
> > massively multiplayer online world that contains everything from lottery
> > games to libraries, penthouses to pubs, skyscrapers to surrogacy clinics.
> >
> > Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex.
> >
> > Back then, the world and his dog were falling over themselves to “be
> > a part of it”. Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs,
> > Microsoft and IBM were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host
> > staff training seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to
> > report back on the latest in-world developments.
> >
> > more...
> > http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life
> > ___
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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>



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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[Antonio Roberts]

It's not dead, it's not dying. It's changing into something different.

Whenever there's any new thing introduced, be it virtual worlds,
social networks or touch-screen phones, people are always quick to say
it'll never catch on or wont be around for long. Well, Second Life has
been around for years and it's still going strong.

In many ways it reflects real life and its subcultures. Sure there's
porn (was) gambling and small wolves trying to fuck your face find
that in any popular network. Think about Twitter: when it's not trying
to get you to click on ad-ridden websites it's trying to get you to
click on links to Britney being fucked.

As long as there's people with a wide variety of interests there'll
always be networks to accommodate them.

Ant

2010/1/6 marc garrett :
> Whatever happened to Second Life?
>
> Barry Collins
>
> It's desolate, dirty, and sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry
> Collins returns to Second Life to find out what went wrong, and why it’s
> raking in more cash than ever before
>
> Three years ago, I underwent one of the most eye-opening experiences of
> my life – and I barely even left the office.
>
> I spent a week virtually living and breathing inside Second Life: the
> massively multiplayer online world that contains everything from lottery
> games to libraries, penthouses to pubs, skyscrapers to surrogacy clinics.
>
> Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex.
>
> Back then, the world and his dog were falling over themselves to “be
> a part of it”. Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs,
> Microsoft and IBM were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host
> staff training seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to
> report back on the latest in-world developments.
>
> more...
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[Rob Myers]

On 06/01/10 17:17, James Wallbank wrote:
> I always thought Second Life wouldn't last. Okay, so now it's a virtual 
> porn haven,
It was, and that was what was good about it - the freedom empowering
things to emerge from people's (cyber-)social interactions.

Now the Lindens are age zoning things and still failing to temp the nice
corporate clients in. It's the usual sulk unto death of startups who
can't bear to deal with people rather than spreadsheets.

> P.S. Meanwhile, the oldies but goldies just keep on rocking. Email is 
> STILL the killer app.
>   
Mailing lists are so much better than message boards. ;-)

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[Simon Biggs]

Hi James

I agree with many of your sentiments. However, I want to pick up on a couple
of points.

>From my research I do not think SL and WoW are fading. They are still
growing. They are no longer on the initial upward part of the hype-cycle but
nor are they on the downward side. I think they are moving toward the
plateau of productivity.

Secondly, how do you distinguish between what you call the real and the
virtual? I have struggled with that all my life, even before I got into
computers (that was in the 70¹s). Perhaps I stuck too many things in my pipe
­ but I have never thought the real was constrained to what I could touch,
eat, smell or sense by other means. I always thought what I read, watch and
listen to is part of the real, whether made by people or produced otherwise.
My conversations, this email, are all part of the real.

Not only can cultural things be as real as physical things but the physical
is in many ways an aspect of the cultural. That is, the tree I walk into
when not watching where I am going is a tree because of how it is located in
my mental world, that mental world being a cultural construct. Whilst I feel
pain through my interaction with the tree I do so within this mediated
context. Thus the tree is also a cultural phenomenon, as is the pain. It is
all about mediation and what Bolter calls remediation. Our senses operate
within this context, not outside it.

Taking such a dualistic view of things, trying to tease out what is real or
unreal in this context, is not only likely to prove impossible but even
damaging to developing an apprehension of things that accounts for the
complexity of life as it is lived and experienced in all its aspects...and
we cannot begin to appreciate what and where we are until we do this.

Best

Simon


Simon Biggs

Research Professor
edinburgh college of art
s.bi...@eca.ac.uk
www.eca.ac.uk

Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
CIRCLE research group
www.eca.ac.uk/circle/

si...@littlepig.org.uk
www.littlepig.org.uk
AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk



From: James Wallbank 
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:17:27 +
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

I always thought Second Life wouldn't last. Okay, so now it's a virtual
porn haven, and sure, they'll make money from that for years to come
(sorry...) but that's not really a new way of interacting - it's a
glorified phone sex line.

Interesting that mainstream SL seems to have tailed off the moment that
voice messaging was introduced - I don't think this is chance - when
people have a very limited communication medium (like the ever-popular
SMS) it leaves space for the imagination. Once the bandwidth of the
medium becomes too high, once the resolution increases, people lose
interest. Why? Maybe less really is more.

I suggest that Second Life and WOW and the others are all fighting
against a key truth - we all only have a limited amount of life - every
hour spent in the digital realm is an hour stolen from real (first?)
life. Getting paler, fatter, lonelier, shorter sighted.

I say this with knowledge - getting carpal tunnel syndrome from a
6-month Runescape grinding binge I overdosed on virtual worlds. Going
cold-turkey was s liberating.

Recently I deleted my LinkedIn Profile. It sucked my time to maintain
it, while I could have been doing real work. Now I'm struggling to
justify microblogging. Yes, everyone says it's "The next greatest..."
but I'm looking hard to see the value.

So now I'm wondering whether many of the technologies we've been
pre-occupied with are poisonous:

Every minute you listen to your iPod is a minute of deafness to the real
world.
Every step you take while you're SMS'ing is a step you're taking blind
to the street scene around you.
Every time you interrupt a real-world conversation to take a call is a
minute spent prioritising the remote over the present.
Think of a mobile phone as a comic-book thought bubble. When people hold
it to their ear, reads "I really should be somewhere else". Never before
have so many people been so convinced for so much of the time that their
bodies, their friends and their contacts are in the wrong place.

Is the real world, right here, right now, so unbearable? If it is, are
we so helpless, apathetic and supine that we're simply looking for an
escape plan?

Are we so hypnotised by consumerism and fashion that we can no longer
value the free, high res, high, bandwidth, streaming, three-d,
motor-feedback enabled, olfactory, totally immersive potential of...
being here now?

Stick that in your Second Pipe and smoke it!

Best,

James
=

P.S. Meanwhile, the oldies but goldies just keep on rocking. Email is
STILL the killer app.

___
Ne

Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[dave miller]

Hi James

Nice one. I often think these things, I particularly agree with what
you say about mobile phones, I have never owned one, and am determined
to stick to this - though more and more I feel I'm expected to have
one. I've always been upset about the - as you say - "prioritising the
remote over the present".

I have 2 small kids and it's an uphill non-stop battle hard to get
them to appreciate what's around them- people, friends, nature - and
doing things that don't involve computer games, ipods, mobile phones.
Doesn't bode well for the future I feel

dave

2010/1/6 James Wallbank :
> I always thought Second Life wouldn't last. Okay, so now it's a virtual
> porn haven, and sure, they'll make money from that for years to come
> (sorry...) but that's not really a new way of interacting - it's a
> glorified phone sex line.
>
> Interesting that mainstream SL seems to have tailed off the moment that
> voice messaging was introduced - I don't think this is chance - when
> people have a very limited communication medium (like the ever-popular
> SMS) it leaves space for the imagination. Once the bandwidth of the
> medium becomes too high, once the resolution increases, people lose
> interest. Why? Maybe less really is more.
>
> I suggest that Second Life and WOW and the others are all fighting
> against a key truth - we all only have a limited amount of life - every
> hour spent in the digital realm is an hour stolen from real (first?)
> life. Getting paler, fatter, lonelier, shorter sighted.
>
> I say this with knowledge - getting carpal tunnel syndrome from a
> 6-month Runescape grinding binge I overdosed on virtual worlds. Going
> cold-turkey was s liberating.
>
> Recently I deleted my LinkedIn Profile. It sucked my time to maintain
> it, while I could have been doing real work. Now I'm struggling to
> justify microblogging. Yes, everyone says it's "The next greatest..."
> but I'm looking hard to see the value.
>
> So now I'm wondering whether many of the technologies we've been
> pre-occupied with are poisonous:
>
> Every minute you listen to your iPod is a minute of deafness to the real
> world.
> Every step you take while you're SMS'ing is a step you're taking blind
> to the street scene around you.
> Every time you interrupt a real-world conversation to take a call is a
> minute spent prioritising the remote over the present.
> Think of a mobile phone as a comic-book thought bubble. When people hold
> it to their ear, reads "I really should be somewhere else". Never before
> have so many people been so convinced for so much of the time that their
> bodies, their friends and their contacts are in the wrong place.
>
> Is the real world, right here, right now, so unbearable? If it is, are
> we so helpless, apathetic and supine that we're simply looking for an
> escape plan?
>
> Are we so hypnotised by consumerism and fashion that we can no longer
> value the free, high res, high, bandwidth, streaming, three-d,
> motor-feedback enabled, olfactory, totally immersive potential of...
> being here now?
>
> Stick that in your Second Pipe and smoke it!
>
> Best,
>
> James
> =
>
> P.S. Meanwhile, the oldies but goldies just keep on rocking. Email is
> STILL the killer app.
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>



-- 
Prints for sale: http://www.etsy.com/shop/visualstories
Etsy Blog: http://etsy-visualstories.blogspot.com/
Art Portfolio: http://davemiller.org
Art Blog: http://davemiller.org/art_blog
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[James Wallbank]

I always thought Second Life wouldn't last. Okay, so now it's a virtual 
porn haven, and sure, they'll make money from that for years to come 
(sorry...) but that's not really a new way of interacting - it's a 
glorified phone sex line.

Interesting that mainstream SL seems to have tailed off the moment that 
voice messaging was introduced - I don't think this is chance - when 
people have a very limited communication medium (like the ever-popular 
SMS) it leaves space for the imagination. Once the bandwidth of the 
medium becomes too high, once the resolution increases, people lose 
interest. Why? Maybe less really is more.

I suggest that Second Life and WOW and the others are all fighting 
against a key truth - we all only have a limited amount of life - every 
hour spent in the digital realm is an hour stolen from real (first?) 
life. Getting paler, fatter, lonelier, shorter sighted.

I say this with knowledge - getting carpal tunnel syndrome from a 
6-month Runescape grinding binge I overdosed on virtual worlds. Going 
cold-turkey was s liberating.

Recently I deleted my LinkedIn Profile. It sucked my time to maintain 
it, while I could have been doing real work. Now I'm struggling to 
justify microblogging. Yes, everyone says it's "The next greatest..." 
but I'm looking hard to see the value.

So now I'm wondering whether many of the technologies we've been 
pre-occupied with are poisonous:

Every minute you listen to your iPod is a minute of deafness to the real 
world.
Every step you take while you're SMS'ing is a step you're taking blind 
to the street scene around you.
Every time you interrupt a real-world conversation to take a call is a 
minute spent prioritising the remote over the present.
Think of a mobile phone as a comic-book thought bubble. When people hold 
it to their ear, reads "I really should be somewhere else". Never before 
have so many people been so convinced for so much of the time that their 
bodies, their friends and their contacts are in the wrong place.

Is the real world, right here, right now, so unbearable? If it is, are 
we so helpless, apathetic and supine that we're simply looking for an 
escape plan?

Are we so hypnotised by consumerism and fashion that we can no longer 
value the free, high res, high, bandwidth, streaming, three-d, 
motor-feedback enabled, olfactory, totally immersive potential of... 
being here now?

Stick that in your Second Pipe and smoke it!

Best,

James
=

P.S. Meanwhile, the oldies but goldies just keep on rocking. Email is 
STILL the killer app.

___
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NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[Alan Sondheim]

A bad article. I'd like to see what he'd do in Tibet - visit for a week 
three years ago, come back to 'check it out' - and publish on the results. 
This is just stupid, sorry. Better on IDC. There's almost a sense of 
gloating here - we don't have to pay attention to _that_ anymore.


Here's the thing, which he notes: "
   There are no goals, no objectives, no points to be won or levels to be
   completed. Yes, there's a degree of social interaction - although
   precious little of it in these glossy showcase areas. I found more
   people at a place delightfully labelled "Cumdumpsters" (which promises
   "rough sex, humiliation and rape") than I ever did on visits to any of
   the Showcase sites."

This is precisely what makes SL interesting - there's no teleology at all. 
If you're there for points or killing, forget it. If you're there for 
social or body or just being in a virtual world, it's great. And, given 
humans' predilection for escape (Potter, Rings, Avatar), it's at least one 
of a number of futures.


As far as his unbelievable blushing about nasty sex - you'd find the same 
thing on websites, newsgroups (when they were active), IRC, MOOs - this 
stuff just moves on (CuSeeMe is a good example). Sex drives the Net - so 
what?


I'd highly recommend The Second Life Herald, and My Tiny Life (about a MOO 
of course) for in-depth online experiences which are highly applicable to 
SL. There's also I, Avatar, which I personally didn't like, but it's at 
least an introduction for some.


- Alan


On Wed, 6 Jan 2010, marc garrett wrote:


Whatever happened to Second Life?


Barry Collins

It's desolate, dirty, and sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry 
Collins returns to Second Life to find out what went wrong, and why it’s 
raking in more cash than ever before


Three years ago, I underwent one of the most eye-opening experiences of 
my life – and I barely even left the office.


I spent a week virtually living and breathing inside Second Life: the 
massively multiplayer online world that contains everything from lottery 
games to libraries, penthouses to pubs, skyscrapers to surrogacy clinics.


Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex.

Back then, the world and his dog were falling over themselves to “be
a part of it”. Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs, 
Microsoft and IBM were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host 
staff training seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to 
report back on the latest in-world developments.


more...
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life
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==
email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/
webpage http://www.alansondheim.org sondheimat gmail.com, panix.com
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[marc garrett]

Hi Simon,

It will not appear,

It was not a deep comment, but mentioning that I am looking forard to 
reading you text because I will be interviewing Patrick Lichty about 2nd 
Front very soon, and wish to catch up on various things about SL. 
Especially when I am not a user of it...

marc
> Look forward to reading your mail.
>
> Simon Biggs
>
> Research Professor
> edinburgh college of art
> s.biggs@ eca .ac.uk
> www. eca .ac.uk
>
> *C* reative *I* nterdisciplinary *R* esearch into *C* o *L* laborative 
> *E* nvironments
> CIRCLE research group
> www. eca .ac.uk/circle/
>
> si...@littlepig.org.uk
> www.littlepig.org.uk
> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
>
>
> *From: *marc garrett 
> *Reply-To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 
> 
> *Date: *Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:04:48 +
> *To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 
> 
> *Subject: *Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?
>
> Hi SImon, Yes I have been reading some of the comments, very 
> interesting. I have commented but have bot seen my mail on there as 
> yet. In fact, I responded to one of your posts, regarding an article 
> you wrote yourself on the subject... marc > This is being discussed in 
> depth over on iDC > > Simon Biggs > > Research Professor > edinburgh 
> college of art > s.biggs@ eca .ac.uk > www. eca .ac.uk > > *C* reative 
> *I* nterdisciplinary *R* esearch into *C* o *L* laborative > *E* 
> nvironments > CIRCLE research group > www. eca .ac.uk/circle/ > > 
> si...@littlepig.org.uk > www.littlepig.org.uk > AIM/Skype: 
> simonbiggsuk > > > *From: *marc garrett 
>  > *Reply-To: *NetBehaviour for 
> networked distributed creativity >  > 
> *Date: *Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:13:31 + > *To: *NetBehaviour for 
> networked distributed creativity >  > 
> *Subject: *[NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life? > > 
> Whatever happened to Second Life? Barry Collins It's desolate, dirty, 
> > and sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry Collins returns to > 
> Second Life to find out what went wrong, and why it’s raking in more > 
> cash than ever before Three years ago, I underwent one of the most > 
> eye-opening experiences of my life – and I barely even left the > 
> office. I spent a week virtually living and breathing inside Second > 
> Life: the massively multiplayer online world that contains everything 
> > from lottery games to libraries, penthouses to pubs, skyscrapers to 
> > surrogacy clinics. Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex. Back then, 
> the > world and his dog were falling over themselves to “be a part of 
> it”. > Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs, Microsoft and 
> IBM > were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host staff 
> training > seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to report 
> back on > the latest in-world developments. more... > 
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life 
> > ___ NetBehaviour mailing 
> > list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > 
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > 
> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, 
> number SC009201 >> > > 
>  
> > > ___ > NetBehaviour 
> mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > 
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour 
> ___ NetBehaviour mailing 
> list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org 
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number 
> SC009201
>   
>
>
> 
>
> ___
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> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[Simon Biggs]

Look forward to reading your mail.

Simon Biggs

Research Professor
edinburgh college of art
s.bi...@eca.ac.uk
www.eca.ac.uk

Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
CIRCLE research group
www.eca.ac.uk/circle/

si...@littlepig.org.uk
www.littlepig.org.uk
AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk



From: marc garrett 
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:04:48 +
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

Hi SImon, Yes I have been reading some of the comments, very interesting. I
have commented but have bot seen my mail on there as yet. In fact, I
responded to one of your posts, regarding an article you wrote yourself on
the subject... marc > This is being discussed in depth over on iDC > > Simon
Biggs > > Research Professor > edinburgh college of art > s.biggs@ eca
.ac.uk > www. eca .ac.uk > > *C* reative *I* nterdisciplinary *R* esearch
into *C* o *L* laborative > *E* nvironments > CIRCLE research group > www.
eca .ac.uk/circle/ > > si...@littlepig.org.uk > www.littlepig.org.uk >
AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk > > > *From: *marc garrett
 > *Reply-To: *NetBehaviour for networked
distributed creativity >  > *Date: *Wed, 06
Jan 2010 13:13:31 + > *To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed
creativity >  > *Subject: *[NetBehaviour]
Whatever happened to Second Life? > > Whatever happened to Second Life?
Barry Collins It's desolate, dirty, > and sex is outcast to a separate
island. Barry Collins returns to > Second Life to find out what went wrong,
and why it¹s raking in more > cash than ever before Three years ago, I
underwent one of the most > eye-opening experiences of my life ­ and I
barely even left the > office. I spent a week virtually living and breathing
inside Second > Life: the massively multiplayer online world that contains
everything > from lottery games to libraries, penthouses to pubs,
skyscrapers to > surrogacy clinics. Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex.
Back then, the > world and his dog were falling over themselves to ³be a
part of it². > Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs, Microsoft
and IBM > were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host staff
training > seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to report back
on > the latest in-world developments. more... >
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life >
___ NetBehaviour mailing > list
NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > Edinburgh
College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 >
> > > 
 > >
___ > NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
___ NetBehaviour mailing list
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Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number 
SC009201


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[marc garrett]

Hi SImon,

Yes I have been reading some of the comments, very interesting. I have 
commented but have bot seen my mail on there as yet. In fact, I 
responded to one of your posts, regarding an article you wrote yourself 
on the subject...

marc
> This is being discussed in depth over on iDC
>
> Simon Biggs
>
> Research Professor
> edinburgh college of art
> s.biggs@ eca .ac.uk
> www. eca .ac.uk
>
> *C* reative *I* nterdisciplinary *R* esearch into *C* o *L* laborative 
> *E* nvironments
> CIRCLE research group
> www. eca .ac.uk/circle/
>
> si...@littlepig.org.uk
> www.littlepig.org.uk
> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
>
>
> *From: *marc garrett 
> *Reply-To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 
> 
> *Date: *Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:13:31 +
> *To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 
> 
> *Subject: *[NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?
>
> Whatever happened to Second Life? Barry Collins It's desolate, dirty, 
> and sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry Collins returns to 
> Second Life to find out what went wrong, and why it’s raking in more 
> cash than ever before Three years ago, I underwent one of the most 
> eye-opening experiences of my life – and I barely even left the 
> office. I spent a week virtually living and breathing inside Second 
> Life: the massively multiplayer online world that contains everything 
> from lottery games to libraries, penthouses to pubs, skyscrapers to 
> surrogacy clinics. Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex. Back then, the 
> world and his dog were falling over themselves to “be a part of it”. 
> Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs, Microsoft and IBM 
> were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host staff training 
> seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to report back on 
> the latest in-world developments. more... 
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life 
> ___ NetBehaviour mailing 
> list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org 
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number 
> SC009201
>   
>
>
> 
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[Simon Biggs]

This is being discussed in depth over on iDC

Simon Biggs

Research Professor
edinburgh college of art
s.bi...@eca.ac.uk
www.eca.ac.uk

Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
CIRCLE research group
www.eca.ac.uk/circle/

si...@littlepig.org.uk
www.littlepig.org.uk
AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk



From: marc garrett 
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:13:31 +
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Subject: [NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

Whatever happened to Second Life? Barry Collins It's desolate, dirty, and
sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry Collins returns to Second Life to
find out what went wrong, and why it¹s raking in more cash than ever before
Three years ago, I underwent one of the most eye-opening experiences of my
life ­ and I barely even left the office. I spent a week virtually living
and breathing inside Second Life: the massively multiplayer online world
that contains everything from lottery games to libraries, penthouses to
pubs, skyscrapers to surrogacy clinics. Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex.
Back then, the world and his dog were falling over themselves to ³be a part
of it². Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs, Microsoft and IBM
were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host staff training
seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to report back on the
latest in-world developments. more...
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life
___ NetBehaviour mailing list
NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour


Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number 
SC009201


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[NetBehaviour] Whatever happened to Second Life?

[marc garrett]

Whatever happened to Second Life?

Barry Collins

It's desolate, dirty, and sex is outcast to a separate island. Barry 
Collins returns to Second Life to find out what went wrong, and why it’s 
raking in more cash than ever before

Three years ago, I underwent one of the most eye-opening experiences of 
my life – and I barely even left the office.

I spent a week virtually living and breathing inside Second Life: the 
massively multiplayer online world that contains everything from lottery 
games to libraries, penthouses to pubs, skyscrapers to surrogacy clinics.

Oh, and an awful lot of virtual sex.

Back then, the world and his dog were falling over themselves to “be
a part of it”. Rock stars were queuing up to play virtual gigs, 
Microsoft and IBM were setting up elaborate pixellated offices to host 
staff training seminars, Reuters even despatched a correspondent to 
report back on the latest in-world developments.

more...
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/354457/whatever-happened-to-second-life
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