Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

2023-06-28 Thread Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
Tom, you’re arguing our case.  The requirements specifically state that modules 
do and need to be updated sometimes in NBC ways.  The idea of this work is not 
to make perfection the enemy of good.

Joe

From: tom petch 
Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 08:01
To: Joe Clarke (jclarke) , Benoit Claise 
, Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
, netmod@ietf.org 
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
From: Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
Sent: 27 June 2023 14:19

Yes, I had pushed for this.  I think it would have help better frame this work 
given how long it is taking.


Yes but had the then I-D been put forward as WGLC, I would have opposed it.  I 
think that the I-D overstates the case.  Modules have been and do get updated 
and the idea of having perfection on day is like a frictionless surface, a 
useful theoretical concept but not one any engineer expects to create.

Tom Petch

Joe

From: netmod  on behalf of Benoit Claise 

Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 12:21
To: tom petch , Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
, netmod@ietf.org 
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
Dear all,

I am generically not in favor of publishing requirement documents.
However, it might have proven beneficial in this particular case.

Regards, Benoit

On 6/26/2023 6:02 PM, tom petch wrote:
> From: netmod  on behalf of Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
> 
> Sent: 26 June 2023 16:53
>
> This revision is a resurrection of the expired I-D to help frame the LC 
> discussions around module versioning and YANG Semver.
>
> 
> Joe
>
> Thank you for that
>
> Tom Petch
>
>
> Joe
>
> From: netmod  on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org 
> 
> Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 11:49
> To: i-d-annou...@ietf.org 
> Cc: netmod@ietf.org 
> Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Network Modeling
> (NETMOD) WG of the IETF.
>
> Title   : YANG Module Versioning Requirements
> Author  : Joe Clarke
> Filename: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
> Pages   : 12
> Date: 2023-06-26
>
> Abstract:
> This document describes the problems that can arise because of the
> YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG
> module preserve strict backwards compatibility.  It also defines the
> requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems.
> This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any
> particular solution.
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/
>
> There is also an htmlized version available at:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>
>
> ___
> netmod mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
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Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

2023-06-28 Thread tom petch 
From: Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
Sent: 27 June 2023 14:19

Yes, I had pushed for this.  I think it would have help better frame this work 
given how long it is taking.


Yes but had the then I-D been put forward as WGLC, I would have opposed it.  I 
think that the I-D overstates the case.  Modules have been and do get updated 
and the idea of having perfection on day is like a frictionless surface, a 
useful theoretical concept but not one any engineer expects to create.

Tom Petch

Joe

From: netmod  on behalf of Benoit Claise 

Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 12:21
To: tom petch , Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
, netmod@ietf.org 
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
Dear all,

I am generically not in favor of publishing requirement documents.
However, it might have proven beneficial in this particular case.

Regards, Benoit

On 6/26/2023 6:02 PM, tom petch wrote:
> From: netmod  on behalf of Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
> 
> Sent: 26 June 2023 16:53
>
> This revision is a resurrection of the expired I-D to help frame the LC 
> discussions around module versioning and YANG Semver.
>
> 
> Joe
>
> Thank you for that
>
> Tom Petch
>
>
> Joe
>
> From: netmod  on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org 
> 
> Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 11:49
> To: i-d-annou...@ietf.org 
> Cc: netmod@ietf.org 
> Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Network Modeling
> (NETMOD) WG of the IETF.
>
> Title   : YANG Module Versioning Requirements
> Author  : Joe Clarke
> Filename: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
> Pages   : 12
> Date: 2023-06-26
>
> Abstract:
> This document describes the problems that can arise because of the
> YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG
> module preserve strict backwards compatibility.  It also defines the
> requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems.
> This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any
> particular solution.
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/
>
> There is also an htmlized version available at:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>
>
> ___
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>
> ___
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>

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Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

2023-06-27 Thread Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
Yes, I had pushed for this.  I think it would have help better frame this work 
given how long it is taking.

Joe

From: netmod  on behalf of Benoit Claise 

Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 12:21
To: tom petch , Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
, netmod@ietf.org 
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
Dear all,

I am generically not in favor of publishing requirement documents.
However, it might have proven beneficial in this particular case.

Regards, Benoit

On 6/26/2023 6:02 PM, tom petch wrote:
> From: netmod  on behalf of Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
> 
> Sent: 26 June 2023 16:53
>
> This revision is a resurrection of the expired I-D to help frame the LC 
> discussions around module versioning and YANG Semver.
>
> 
> Joe
>
> Thank you for that
>
> Tom Petch
>
>
> Joe
>
> From: netmod  on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org 
> 
> Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 11:49
> To: i-d-annou...@ietf.org 
> Cc: netmod@ietf.org 
> Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Network Modeling
> (NETMOD) WG of the IETF.
>
> Title   : YANG Module Versioning Requirements
> Author  : Joe Clarke
> Filename: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
> Pages   : 12
> Date: 2023-06-26
>
> Abstract:
> This document describes the problems that can arise because of the
> YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG
> module preserve strict backwards compatibility.  It also defines the
> requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems.
> This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any
> particular solution.
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/
>
> There is also an htmlized version available at:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>
>
> ___
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>
> ___
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>

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Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

2023-06-26 Thread Jürgen Schönwälder 
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 03:53:19PM +, Joe Clarke (jclarke) wrote:

> This revision is a resurrection of the expired I-D to help frame the
> LC discussions around module versioning and YANG Semver.

Thanks, Section 5 is an interesting read.

The solution we got seems to be going over board on some requirements
while not addressing some other requirements (or I have not understood
how).

/js

-- 
Jürgen Schönwälder  Constructor University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 

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Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

2023-06-26 Thread Benoit Claise 

Dear all,

I am generically not in favor of publishing requirement documents.
However, it might have proven beneficial in this particular case.

Regards, Benoit

On 6/26/2023 6:02 PM, tom petch wrote:

From: netmod  on behalf of Joe Clarke (jclarke) 

Sent: 26 June 2023 16:53

This revision is a resurrection of the expired I-D to help frame the LC 
discussions around module versioning and YANG Semver.


Joe

Thank you for that

Tom Petch


Joe

From: netmod  on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org 

Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 11:49
To: i-d-annou...@ietf.org 
Cc: netmod@ietf.org 
Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Network Modeling
(NETMOD) WG of the IETF.

Title   : YANG Module Versioning Requirements
Author  : Joe Clarke
Filename: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
Pages   : 12
Date: 2023-06-26

Abstract:
This document describes the problems that can arise because of the
YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG
module preserve strict backwards compatibility.  It also defines the
requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems.
This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any
particular solution.

The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08

Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts


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Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

2023-06-26 Thread tom petch 
From: netmod  on behalf of Joe Clarke (jclarke) 

Sent: 26 June 2023 16:53

This revision is a resurrection of the expired I-D to help frame the LC 
discussions around module versioning and YANG Semver.


Joe

Thank you for that

Tom Petch


Joe

From: netmod  on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org 

Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 11:49
To: i-d-annou...@ietf.org 
Cc: netmod@ietf.org 
Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Network Modeling
(NETMOD) WG of the IETF.

   Title   : YANG Module Versioning Requirements
   Author  : Joe Clarke
   Filename: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
   Pages   : 12
   Date: 2023-06-26

Abstract:
   This document describes the problems that can arise because of the
   YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG
   module preserve strict backwards compatibility.  It also defines the
   requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems.
   This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any
   particular solution.

The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08

Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts


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Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

2023-06-26 Thread Joe Clarke (jclarke) 
This revision is a resurrection of the expired I-D to help frame the LC 
discussions around module versioning and YANG Semver.

Joe

From: netmod  on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org 

Date: Monday, June 26, 2023 at 11:49
To: i-d-annou...@ietf.org 
Cc: netmod@ietf.org 
Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Network Modeling
(NETMOD) WG of the IETF.

   Title   : YANG Module Versioning Requirements
   Author  : Joe Clarke
   Filename: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08.txt
   Pages   : 12
   Date: 2023-06-26

Abstract:
   This document describes the problems that can arise because of the
   YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG
   module preserve strict backwards compatibility.  It also defines the
   requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems.
   This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any
   particular solution.

The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-08

Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts


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