Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
On 16 Jan, Steve Fryatt wrote in message mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.li...@stevefryatt.org.uk: That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take on some of the more paper shuffling tasks that I've been doing for the platform over the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were met with total silence. Thanks for all the offers; I'll get back to people as and when I have time (there are more pressing things I need to do this weekend). However, I need to point out that above was a retrospective observation. RISC OS isn't the only thing I do in my spare time (as Archive readers probably know), and while other demands on my time were low in November and December, that isn't the case now we're into the start of 2010. -- Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
In message mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.li...@stevefryatt.org.uk Steve Fryatt li...@stevefryatt.org.uk wrote: On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message 9d6e16da50.michaelb...@michael.beaverbell.co.uk: In message 20100115131610.5b82a...@trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net Rob Kendrick r...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP from C before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips with NetSurf's sources. Far beyond most of us, I'm afraid. That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take on some of the more paper shuffling tasks that I've been doing for the platform over the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were met with total silence. 1. For the avoidance of any possible doubt, these tasks were *not* Archive's PD Column or the editing of the Wakefield Club newsletter. What task are they? Perhaps some on this group are capable and willing to take them on. -- Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/ ICQ 238580561 IF your nose runs and your feet smell it means your upside down.
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
On 16 Jan 2010 Steve Fryatt li...@stevefryatt.org.uk wrote: On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message 9d6e16da50.michaelb...@michael.beaverbell.co.uk: In message 20100115131610.5b82a...@trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net Rob Kendrick r...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP from C before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips with NetSurf's sources. Far beyond most of us, I'm afraid. That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take on some of the more paper shuffling tasks that I've been doing for the platform over the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were met with total silence. I might be able to help with at least some of this. Please let me know off-list (address is valid) what sort of things need doing. With best wishes, Peter. -- Peter, \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52 Anne \ / ____ \ England. and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \__ pnyo...@ormail.co.uk.
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
In article mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.li...@stevefryatt.org.uk, Steve Fryatt li...@stevefryatt.org.uk wrote: On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message 9d6e16da50.michaelb...@michael.beaverbell.co.uk: In message 20100115131610.5b82a...@trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net Rob Kendrick r...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: [Snip] That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take on some of the more paper shuffling tasks that I've been doing for the platform over the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were met with total silence. 1. For the avoidance of any possible doubt, these tasks were *not* Archive's PD Column or the editing of the Wakefield Club newsletter. I have Ovation Pro, have a reasonable grasp of the English language and would be willing to help if it enables an ongoing RISC OS presence at Netsurf. I see that you have two other volunteers here; Peter, James and I probably a constitute a group of RISC OS users so let us know what is needed. Brian -- _ Brian Jordan Virtual RPC-AdjustSA RISC OS 6.16 _
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
In message 20100115003457.0d6d2...@trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net Rob Kendrick r...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will be required. How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all. -- Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/ ICQ 238580561 Democray for England http://www.thecep.org.uk/
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:57:37 GMT Kevin Wells kevinwe...@talktalk.net wrote: In message 20100115003457.0d6d2...@trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net Rob Kendrick r...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will be required. How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all. Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP from C before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips with NetSurf's sources. B.
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:57:37PM +, Kevin Wells wrote: Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will be required. How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all. That entirely depends on the person. When I learned C, it took me about a week of evenings to become reasonably competent. However I know people who picked it up in days and people who took months. Simply knowing C is insufficient however; since then you need to understand a non-trivial codebase (NetSurf) and all the libraries it uses (libcss, hubbub, curl, openssl etc) to a sufficient level that you will be able to trace and debug issues and implement new features. Learning the codebase enough to be able to hack on NetSurf took me a few days to begin with; but months to be really productive. I don't expect a non-committed programmer to be able to take over the RO frontend effectively. By 'committed' I mean someone who 1. writes code as part of their job (in whatever language) and 2. writes code for their own edification. A casual coder is unlikely to have the kind of mind which can cope with the job. I'm not trying to put people off; just to make it clear that it's not the sort of job for someone who was a casual BASIC programmer and has now read a C book. Regards, Daniel -- Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/ PGP mail accepted and encouraged.Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 01:16:47PM +, Daniel Silverstone wrote: How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all. That entirely depends on the person. When I learned C, it took me about a week of evenings to become reasonably competent. To put this in context; when I learned C (aged 20) I had already been writing software for fifteen years. D. -- Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/ PGP mail accepted and encouraged.Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
Daniel Silverstone dsilv...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 01:16:47PM +, Daniel Silverstone wrote: How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all. That entirely depends on the person. When I learned C, it took me about a week of evenings to become reasonably competent. To put this in context; when I learned C (aged 20) I had already been writing software for fifteen years. Maybe the missing ingredient in the RISC OS community is youth. There is no getting away from the fact that it is easier to learn when young, (and then remember it!). I was in the second half of my thirties when I got my first computer, a BBC Model B, and it took a lot more than a week to become competent in BASIC. And that was as far as I ever got, I like nearly everyone else, did not make the jump to C even when I moved on to the A3000 and later. I had a bit of a google to try to get some background to a Netsurf developer's skill set and came across this use of Netsurf :- http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-A-web-kiosk-embedded-system/ http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-An-ARMbased-web-kiosk-system/ -- David Pitt MessengerPro on iMac, Snow Leopard
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 04:29:28PM +, David Pitt wrote: Maybe the missing ingredient in the RISC OS community is youth. It's exceedingly hard to persuade youth to latch onto a community which currently lacks it. I had a bit of a google to try to get some background to a Netsurf developer's skill set and came across this use of Netsurf :- http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-A-web-kiosk-embedded-system/ http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-An-ARMbased-web-kiosk-system/ That series was written by myself and my colleague and fellow NetSurf developer, Vincent. D. -- Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/ PGP mail accepted and encouraged.Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
The NetSurf developers plan to release NetSurf 2.5 at the Wakefield RISC OS Show this year. http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/ The release is expected to have many bug fixes over the current release version (NetSurf 2.1), in addition to major new features, such as: + Rewritten and more capable CSS engine + Rewritten and more flexible cache design + Better memory usage We also hope for speed improvements in parsing of HTML and CSS, as well as faster CSS selection. NetSurf 2.5 is likely to be the last release for RISC OS. It is unlikely that RISC OS development builds will function for much longer after this, either. Once NetSurf 2.5 has been released we will be incorporating new developments, which are currently being held back, into NetSurf's core web browser engine. These will not be compatible with the existing stagnant RISC OS front end code. The source code for the RISC OS front end will continue to be available in the normal place, however it won't compile without the necessary attention to bring it into line with NetSurf's core. The NetSurf Developers -- Michael Drake (tlsa) http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
In message 50d979b0e4t...@netsurf-browser.org Michael Drake t...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: The NetSurf developers plan to release NetSurf 2.5 at the Wakefield RISC OS Show this year. Excellent, something to look forward to! We also hope for speed improvements in parsing of HTML and CSS, as well as faster CSS selection. That will be much appreciated. I've had to go back to 2.1 for general usage because the test builds had become too slow. The ROOL forums are particularly bad.. NetSurf 2.5 is likely to be the last release for RISC OS. :-( I take it none of those who were looking at taking on the RISC OS frontend were able to commit the necessary time to it? The source code for the RISC OS front end will continue to be available in the normal place So there's still hope! The NetSurf Developers Thanks to you all for your work producing an excellent browser. Bryan.
Re: NetSurf at Wakefield Show 2010
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:31:15 GMT Bryan Hogan nets...@helpful.demon.co.uk wrote: NetSurf 2.5 is likely to be the last release for RISC OS. :-( I take it none of those who were looking at taking on the RISC OS frontend were able to commit the necessary time to it? Indeed. There is a shortage of people who have the expertise, time and the will. People with one or two of these attributes but not all are plentiful. The source code for the RISC OS front end will continue to be available in the normal place So there's still hope! Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will be required. B.
