Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term
Move back to were it came from. We can host nettime again at the Waag. Both archive and lists. grtz, henk # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving
Aloha All, Makes total sense Mark - at least to me. A _supplementary_ option for the nettime archives could be to contact with the International Institute of Social History in Amsterdam. They have an ever expanding digital fond. Also: I was interviewed a few weeks ago by the digital archivists at the Royal Library in the Hague (the Dutch record library) & they have an enthusiastic program director, Kees Teszelszky: https://www.kb.nl/organisatie/organisatie-en-beleid/afdelingen-en-organogram/collectiespecialisten/kees-teszelszky (sorry Dutch only: c+p >>> deepl.com! ;-) Maybe he would be interested, after all nettime is also part a NL originated thing Cheers to all! p+2D! On 2020-03-11 12:28, mark wrote: > Hi Felix and Ted, > > On 05/03/2020 07:43, nettime's mods wrote: >> Very few people have noticed that the list was down for more than a >> month. >> Indeed, even we didn't noticed this immediately. It's up again now, >> but... >> >> But this isn't a good sign. First, it shows that nettime's >> 'infrastructure' is brittle, and, second, that no one's paying much >> attention to the list. > > On your first point, if you're having difficulty maintaining a stable > setup, maybe you would like to move the list to a different server? I'm > part of the collective running lists.aktivix.org and I think you would > be welcome there (I would have to check with my friends, of course). > > I disagree with your second point. I am on lots of lists that have long > periods of inactivity interspersed with spikes of messaging. I enjoy > reading nettime and I accept the sporadic nature of postings as part of > the ride. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving
Great job getting Nettime back up again! Regarding archiving, how big is the Nettime Archive? How is it currently stored? Regarding not noticing that the list was down - I did - or rather, I noticed that nobody was posting. But, as is the way with the online world, any stream of interesting discussion or commentary that's missing is immediately replaced by another interesting stream of discussion or commentary that's present. There's no such thing as a gap on the internet. Or rather, there are many, many gaps, but they're in no way apparent - you have to look for them. I'm sure that if you start researching an area in which you are, personally, knowledgable, you'll come across them quickly. It's a very tempting illusion to think that "all human knowledge exists on the internet". It doesn't. And without Nettime, a little piece of network self-awareness would be lost. All the best, James # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving
Hi Felix and Ted, On 05/03/2020 07:43, nettime's mods wrote: > Very few people have noticed that the list was down for more than a month. > Indeed, even we didn't noticed this immediately. It's up again now, but... > > But this isn't a good sign. First, it shows that nettime's > 'infrastructure' is brittle, and, second, that no one's paying much > attention to the list. On your first point, if you're having difficulty maintaining a stable setup, maybe you would like to move the list to a different server? I'm part of the collective running lists.aktivix.org and I think you would be welcome there (I would have to check with my friends, of course). I disagree with your second point. I am on lots of lists that have long periods of inactivity interspersed with spikes of messaging. I enjoy reading nettime and I accept the sporadic nature of postings as part of the ride. > Rather than spark another one of those discussions, we think this is a > good occasion to think more deeply about a long-term solution for > nettime's *archive*. It spans almost 25 years and is a testament both to > an amazing conjuncture — a period of time and a a collective effort to > understand the digitally enabled social and cultural transformations in > real time. > > If anyone has any good suggestions — preferably something concrete and > actionable — then please let us know. OK, here's my suggestion: move to lists.aktivix.org and the archive can be made available at https://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/listname Also, ensure that the pipermail archive is indexed by archive.org Make sense? Cheers, Mark # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: [digest 4x] nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving
- Forwarded message from kanonmedia - From: kanonmedia Subject: Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 16:16:53 +0100 To: nettime's mods Keep it as an online archive / publication! -- kanonmedia ngo for experimental media productions alexandra reill call: +43 [0]6991 8207003 write to: 12/24, richtergasse, a 1070 vienna mail to: [1]alexandra.re...@kanonmedia.com visit: http: [2]www.kanonmedia.com -- - End forwarded message - - Forwarded message from Max Herman - From: Max Herman Subject: Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 15:46:52 + To: nettime's mods , nettime-l Hi all, I did notice the silent period and was a bit saddened by it. Do we know if anyone tried to post during that time? Perhaps the Hippocratic ethos is relevant here. Lately I've been interested in concepts of network medicine as they might inform the ethics of network civilization. Age and eventual demise or archival are medical concepts in a sense, relating to "end of life" whether for technology, biology, or information. Many intangibles are involved, like the wishes of the family, legacy for future generations, the historical record, and so on. If a reasonable quality of life is not sustainable for nettime, what is the most balanced approach for archival? Speaking for myself, despite having posted a lot of inane and embarrassing content to nettime, I would wish to have it preserved in some archival form (perhaps like a discontinued periodical is preserved in a library for research purposes). Erasure of what was and may continue to be important (the baby) seems more negative than the embarrassment of being remembered (the bathwater). I like the gritty reality of nettime. Perhaps it is enough to be remembered and forgiven, rather than erased and forgotten? Each writer to nettime may feel differently. It seems to me that an artistic or historical institution such as a library or university might be a good way to host the archive long-term, as is done with periodicals. Making a giant torrent available as with Geocities could be an option, but it would be nice to keep something of nettime's structure and simplicity of html. Could a precise copy of what now appears at nettime.org be certified by blockchain, and made available to various institutions or individuals if they wish to archive a copy? Same copyright rules etc. Not unlike some good, old magazines in binders on a shelf, available in more than one library. Best wishes to all, Max __ - End forwarded message - - Forwarded message from Geert Dekkers - From: Geert Dekkers Subject: Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 15:52:52 + To: nettime-l , "nettime's mods" Actionable, as in "we need a hosting solution"? We might be able to help with that. Best regards Geert Dekkers gsm +31 6 147 487 55 Django Web Studio | [1]https://djangowebstudio.com� |� +31 2 334 3835 - End forwarded message - - Forwarded message from nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org - From: Morlock Elloi Subject: Re: nettime: down & up and the need for long-term archiving Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 01:49:18 -0700 To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org Great question, reveals all the hollowness of the 'Internet'. While there is a way to archive almost anything printed, there is no way to permanently archive anything on the Internet. It is ephemeral by nature, the storage being managed by entities that come and go, change policies, guaranteeing that nothing is permanent. Whoever offers archiving today will most likely not exist 10 years from now. --- That being said, it may be possible to inject nettime-l into archive.org, which may be around a bit longer than the others: - go to the last snapshot (2018): https://web.archive.org/web/20180624103024/https://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/ - create a script that will crawl through all the links (as Archive.org archived only the top page) and perform 'Save this url in the Wayback Machine' action and then "save page". We are talking number of 'clicks' equal to the number of messages. As archiving takes about 10 sec, it may take few months. I have manually archived one to test - see https://web.archive.org/web/20200311083938/https://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-1805/msg00022.html --- Alternatively, try bribing someone in the Library of Congress: https://www.loc.gov/programs/web-archiving/about-this-program/ # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/