Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
The Vatican still speaks Latin and look where they are now. Not even the alt-right is bothered by the words of Pope Francis! :) Anyways, Google Translate has a Latin vocabulary, which makes any text written in that language fairly accessible through a copy-paste. Morituri vos salutant, On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 16:58, James Wallbank wrote: > > > Ave Nettimers, > Paolo Ruffino # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 08:46:45PM +0100, Joseph Rabie wrote: > Or perhaps we just cease speaking Morlock or Eloi. > > Joe. I am not sure if I am reading you correctly and I am not quite sure what people have against Morlock - albeit I suspect he (he?) stepped on my toes lightly in the past, but not hard enough to remember what was it, exactly. I am subscribed to few other lists and Morlock is not really that bad, trust me. Perhaps it is a problem with consistency. Not very long ago there was a lament about how this list lacks a "different opinion". It is possible I understand a word "different" differently, but as long as I want a different opinion, I need to be prepared for reading from people whose ideals are different than mine, and this is how I understand "consistency", in this context. Say what is this thing that you need and when it comes to you, do not whim. To give you some example, I myself do not have big faith in socialism (contrary to some posters here). At the same time, I do not have big faith in capitalism, either (in case I would be called "rightist" by some 0-1 types). However, I find reading opinions of people who actually believe in those things to be rather educating for me. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Ave Nettimers, This thread identifies one of the key weaknesses that's proven to be a fatal vulnerability of the former United Kingdom. (Sorry to bring it back to one particular nation - but it's a rather preoccupying issue to be living in a failing state.) Education relates to power. We, as artists and activists who have engaged with technology, work on the assumption that gaining technological skills and critical insights, we can better operate in the world, and thus add value and empower ourselves. This embodies a very straightforward understanding of the purpose of education - that it has a direct bearing on what you can understand, what you can imagine, and thus what you can do. There is another purpose for education, (whether self- or institutional education) as a signal of status. This is how Latin and obscure classical education is used in British politics. How does a knowledge of Ancient Greek, or Latin, or some obscure ancient texts help one to make sensible strategic decisions in an industrialised and technological society? It doesn't! But what it does do is to signal that you are from a special class of people to be respected and deferred to. Many members of the British public (ignorant serfs that they are) are suckers for this sort of snake-oil. I fully expect the international, and highly educated and critical audience for this list to be immune to such signalling, and far more prepared to examine, critically, the content of communications, however they are expressed. "Latin as a revolutionary act" is simply a response of outsiders, late in the game (about a thousand years late) to take on the symbolic status-signalling of their oppressors, instead of challenging it as bullshit. Resist it! Vale. James = # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Lol why is it that every time there's a right wing resurgence, some edge lord academic wants to revive latin? On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 4:04 PM Keith Sanborn wrote: > Well, doesn’t one have to assume the proposition was presented as an > ironic gesture? > > I can’t really judge the sophistication of the schoolboy phrase presented > on the basis of style but in the age of machine translation it was easily > decoded by google translate. > > Consider the source. > > On Nov 10, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Garnet Hertz wrote: > > > Retreating into a dead language is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a > while - unless this is a symbolic parody of how isolated much of the > academic humanities is. Why not just stick w the outdated 1970s critical > theory that everyone already regularly invokes? > > Garnet Hertz > > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:44 AM Iain Boal wrote: > >> Eheu Sean, >> >> As you say, 'Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a guarantee of >> anything.’ A training in Latin used to be regarded as a portal to the >> full resources of the English language, which is in effect a post-1066 >> Anglo-Norman creole. Historically this involved a training in “classics” >> (no accident that “classics” is cognate with “class”) and typically >> correlated with a privileged education. >> >> The Welsh critic and *tribunus plebis* Raymond Williams grappled head-on >> with the problem of English as a two-tiered diglossia. (He was looking in >> at English from the outside, approaching the language as a native Welsh >> speaker.) He saw clearly the problems produced by a language with class >> inscribed so deeply in the structure, and for that reason he suggested a >> regular column in the *Tribune* newspaper on 'difficult' words, >> especially those with polysyllabic Greek and Latin roots. The editors >> turned the proposal down, and so Williams published *Keywords*, never >> having had the chance to take on, in the pages of *Tribune*, what he >> thought was the disastrous policy of George Orwell, who had suggested that >> proletarians (or ‘nobodies’, in Morlock’s formula) stick to simple >> Anglo-Saxon monosyllables, more honest and less liable to fall into >> Stalinist obscurantism and gobbledegook. Williams considered this strategy >> a bogus and condescending populism that was all too easy a recommendation >> coming from the dissident Etonian and classical scholar Eric Blair. >> Ironically, learning Latin was, for Williams, a means to the precise >> antithesis of Morlock’s conceited proposal. >> >> Iain >> >> >> On 10 Nov 2019, at 07:14, Sean Cubitt wrote: >> >> Eheu Morlock >> >> sadly you picked the wrong language: the UK premiere B Johnson has made a >> habit of adding latin tags to his outrageous posh-boy persona behind which >> hides a refusal to publish a budget, the official financial predictions for >> Brexit, the results of an enquiry into alleged financial impropriety and >> the results of a major enquiry into Russian interference and donations to >> his party. Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a gurantee of anything >> >> perhaps ancient Greek . . . >> >> Sean Cubitt >> Goldsmiths, University of London >> (U of Melbourne from Jan 2020) >> -- >> *From:* nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org >> on behalf of nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org < >> nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> >> *Sent:* 10 November 2019 11:00 >> *To:* nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> *Subject:* nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 >> >> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to >> nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) >> >> >> -- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 >> From: Morlock Elloi >> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? >> Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-885
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Videtur quod non defendat contra stulti. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam quis ex hendrerit, lacinia felis sed, lobortis mi. Pellentesque aliquam pharetra sem. Aliquam a odio at dui vehicula dictum et ultricies velit. Nulla nec metus nisl. Cras a turpis a est feugiat accumsan. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
Or perhaps we just cease speaking Morlock or Eloi. Joe. > Le 11 nov. 2019 à 19:19, Tomasz Rola a écrit : > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:05:45AM +0400, Patrick Lichty wrote: >> Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? >> Let’s speak Klingon! > [...] > > Why, let's speak Lojban. There is supposedly ca. hundred speakers of > it, worldwide. Tripling their number would be both appreciated by them > and deemed revolutionary change by many... > > However, we could start from something moderate - culling excessive > lines from replies, maybe? I dare not to propose bottomposting, I am > too shy. > > -- > Regards, > Tomasz Rola > > -- > ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** > ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** > ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** > ** ** > ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam quis ex hendrerit, lacinia felis sed, lobortis mi. Pellentesque aliquam pharetra sem. Aliquam a odio at dui vehicula dictum et ultricies velit. Nulla nec metus nisl. Cras a turpis a est feugiat accumsan. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. On 11/11/19 10:50 AM, Morlock Elloi wrote: > Quod enim est in genere quod non potest recte occupati hodie? > Identitatem rei publicae genus divisa in omnibus vanitatem copia. Non > necesse est esse simul primum sectus est. > >> Tabula in Terra Firma dominium repellere occultae mensurae. Noticia >> est laruam. >> Reticulum malorum oculis Occult Centra Imperium: ratio ex captivis. >> Ex media materia est potentia distans per aliqua media necessaria! >> >> El Iblis Shah > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:05:45AM +0400, Patrick Lichty wrote: > Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? > Let’s speak Klingon! [...] Why, let's speak Lojban. There is supposedly ca. hundred speakers of it, worldwide. Tripling their number would be both appreciated by them and deemed revolutionary change by many... However, we could start from something moderate - culling excessive lines from replies, maybe? I dare not to propose bottomposting, I am too shy. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Quod enim est in genere quod non potest recte occupati hodie? Identitatem rei publicae genus divisa in omnibus vanitatem copia. Non necesse est esse simul primum sectus est. Tabula in Terra Firma dominium repellere occultae mensurae. Noticia est laruam. Reticulum malorum oculis Occult Centra Imperium: ratio ex captivis. Ex media materia est potentia distans per aliqua media necessaria! El Iblis Shah # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Tabula in Terra Firma dominium repellere occultae mensurae. Noticia est laruam. Reticulum malorum oculis Occult Centra Imperium: ratio ex captivis. Ex media materia est potentia distans per aliqua media necessaria! El Iblis Shah #digitalunconscious This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
JES! On 2019-11-11 10:08, Laura Chimera wrote: Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? My thoughts exactly! On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 08:09, Patrick Lichty wrote: Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? Let’s speak Klingon! On Nov 11, 2019, at 6:00 AM, Renée Lynn Reizman wrote: Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless measure of intelligence. I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who don't have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other environments where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich people get to participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? Upholding the ruling class? Renée Lynn Reizman On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM wrote: Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to nettime-l@mail.kein.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org You can reach the person managing the list at nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 From: Morlock Elloi To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed What would be consequences of using Latin language among group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the above set to learn Latin) First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment and access. Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a foreign tongue. Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking technology to attract interest globally. Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! -- # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 ** # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
> Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? My thoughts exactly! On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 08:09, Patrick Lichty wrote: > Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? > Let’s speak Klingon! > > On Nov 11, 2019, at 6:00 AM, Renée Lynn Reizman > wrote: > > Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen > proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning > styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to > be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless > measure of intelligence. > > I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who > don't have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other > environments where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich > people get to participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? > Upholding the ruling class? > > Renée Lynn Reizman > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM wrote: > >> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to >> nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) >> >> >> ------ >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 >> From: Morlock Elloi >> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? >> Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> What would be consequences of using Latin language among >> group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea >> exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the >> above set to learn Latin) >> >> First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort >> barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other >> nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice >> and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the >> 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment >> and access. >> >> Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media >> firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the >> medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a >> foreign tongue. >> >> Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking >> to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the >> unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking >> technology to attract interest globally. >> >> >> Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! >> >> >> >> -- >> >> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission >> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> >> End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 >> ** >> > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? Let’s speak Klingon! > On Nov 11, 2019, at 6:00 AM, Renée Lynn Reizman wrote: > > Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen > proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning > styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to > be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless > measure of intelligence. > > I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who don't > have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other environments > where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich people get to > participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? Upholding the ruling > class? > > Renée Lynn Reizman > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org>> wrote: > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org > <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 > From: Morlock Elloi mailto:morlockel...@gmail.com>> > To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> > Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? > Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com <mailto:5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > What would be consequences of using Latin language among > group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea > exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the > above set to learn Latin) > > First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort > barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other > nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice > and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the > 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment > and access. > > Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media > firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the > medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a > foreign tongue. > > Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking > to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the > unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking > technology to attract interest globally. > > > Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! > > > > -- > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > > End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 > ** > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless measure of intelligence. I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who don't have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other environments where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich people get to participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? Upholding the ruling class? Renée Lynn Reizman On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM wrote: > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@mail.kein.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 > From: Morlock Elloi > To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org > Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? > Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > What would be consequences of using Latin language among > group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea > exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the > above set to learn Latin) > > First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort > barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other > nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice > and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the > 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment > and access. > > Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media > firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the > medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a > foreign tongue. > > Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking > to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the > unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking > technology to attract interest globally. > > > Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! > > > > -- > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 > ** > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Well, doesn’t one have to assume the proposition was presented as an ironic gesture? I can’t really judge the sophistication of the schoolboy phrase presented on the basis of style but in the age of machine translation it was easily decoded by google translate. Consider the source. > On Nov 10, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Garnet Hertz wrote: > > > Retreating into a dead language is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a > while - unless this is a symbolic parody of how isolated much of the academic > humanities is. Why not just stick w the outdated 1970s critical theory that > everyone already regularly invokes? > > Garnet Hertz > > >> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:44 AM Iain Boal wrote: >> Eheu Sean, >> >> As you say, 'Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a guarantee of >> anything.’ A training in Latin used to be regarded as a portal to the full >> resources of the English language, which is in effect a post-1066 >> Anglo-Norman creole. Historically this involved a training in “classics” >> (no accident that “classics” is cognate with “class”) and typically >> correlated with a privileged education. >> >> The Welsh critic and tribunus plebis Raymond Williams grappled head-on with >> the problem of English as a two-tiered diglossia. (He was looking in at >> English from the outside, approaching the language as a native Welsh >> speaker.) He saw clearly the problems produced by a language with class >> inscribed so deeply in the structure, and for that reason he suggested a >> regular column in the Tribune newspaper on 'difficult' words, especially >> those with polysyllabic Greek and Latin roots. The editors turned the >> proposal down, and so Williams published Keywords, never having had the >> chance to take on, in the pages of Tribune, what he thought was the >> disastrous policy of George Orwell, who had suggested that proletarians (or >> ‘nobodies’, in Morlock’s formula) stick to simple Anglo-Saxon monosyllables, >> more honest and less liable to fall into Stalinist obscurantism and >> gobbledegook. Williams considered this strategy a bogus and condescending >> populism that was all too easy a recommendation coming from the dissident >> Etonian and classical scholar Eric Blair. Ironically, learning Latin was, >> for Williams, a means to the precise antithesis of Morlock’s conceited >> proposal. >> >> Iain >> >> >> On 10 Nov 2019, at 07:14, Sean Cubitt wrote: >> >> Eheu Morlock >> >> sadly you picked the wrong language: the UK premiere B Johnson has made a >> habit of adding latin tags to his outrageous posh-boy persona behind which >> hides a refusal to publish a budget, the official financial predictions for >> Brexit, the results of an enquiry into alleged financial impropriety and the >> results of a major enquiry into Russian interference and donations to his >> party. Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a gurantee of anything >> >> perhaps ancient Greek . . . >> >> Sean Cubitt >> Goldsmiths, University of London >> (U of Melbourne from Jan 2020) >> From: nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org on >> behalf of nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org >> Sent: 10 November 2019 11:00 >> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> Subject: nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 >> >> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to >> nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) >> >> >> -- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 >> From: Morlock Elloi >> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? >> Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> What would be consequences of using Latin language among >> group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea >> exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Retreating into a dead language is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a while - unless this is a symbolic parody of how isolated much of the academic humanities is. Why not just stick w the outdated 1970s critical theory that everyone already regularly invokes? Garnet Hertz On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:44 AM Iain Boal wrote: > Eheu Sean, > > As you say, 'Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a guarantee of > anything.’ A training in Latin used to be regarded as a portal to the > full resources of the English language, which is in effect a post-1066 > Anglo-Norman creole. Historically this involved a training in “classics” > (no accident that “classics” is cognate with “class”) and typically > correlated with a privileged education. > > The Welsh critic and *tribunus plebis* Raymond Williams grappled head-on > with the problem of English as a two-tiered diglossia. (He was looking in > at English from the outside, approaching the language as a native Welsh > speaker.) He saw clearly the problems produced by a language with class > inscribed so deeply in the structure, and for that reason he suggested a > regular column in the *Tribune* newspaper on 'difficult' words, > especially those with polysyllabic Greek and Latin roots. The editors > turned the proposal down, and so Williams published *Keywords*, never > having had the chance to take on, in the pages of *Tribune*, what he > thought was the disastrous policy of George Orwell, who had suggested that > proletarians (or ‘nobodies’, in Morlock’s formula) stick to simple > Anglo-Saxon monosyllables, more honest and less liable to fall into > Stalinist obscurantism and gobbledegook. Williams considered this strategy > a bogus and condescending populism that was all too easy a recommendation > coming from the dissident Etonian and classical scholar Eric Blair. > Ironically, learning Latin was, for Williams, a means to the precise > antithesis of Morlock’s conceited proposal. > > Iain > > > On 10 Nov 2019, at 07:14, Sean Cubitt wrote: > > Eheu Morlock > > sadly you picked the wrong language: the UK premiere B Johnson has made a > habit of adding latin tags to his outrageous posh-boy persona behind which > hides a refusal to publish a budget, the official financial predictions for > Brexit, the results of an enquiry into alleged financial impropriety and > the results of a major enquiry into Russian interference and donations to > his party. Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a gurantee of anything > > perhaps ancient Greek . . . > > Sean Cubitt > Goldsmiths, University of London > (U of Melbourne from Jan 2020) > -- > *From:* nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org > on behalf of nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org < > nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> > *Sent:* 10 November 2019 11:00 > *To:* nettime-l@mail.kein.org > *Subject:* nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 > > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@mail.kein.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 > From: Morlock Elloi > To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org > Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? > Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > What would be consequences of using Latin language among > group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea > exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the > above set to learn Latin) > > First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort > barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other > nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice > and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the > 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment > and access. > > Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media > firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the > medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a > foreign tongue.
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Eheu Sean, As you say, 'Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a guarantee of anything.’ A training in Latin used to be regarded as a portal to the full resources of the English language, which is in effect a post-1066 Anglo-Norman creole. Historically this involved a training in “classics” (no accident that “classics” is cognate with “class”) and typically correlated with a privileged education. The Welsh critic and tribunus plebis Raymond Williams grappled head-on with the problem of English as a two-tiered diglossia. (He was looking in at English from the outside, approaching the language as a native Welsh speaker.) He saw clearly the problems produced by a language with class inscribed so deeply in the structure, and for that reason he suggested a regular column in the Tribune newspaper on 'difficult' words, especially those with polysyllabic Greek and Latin roots. The editors turned the proposal down, and so Williams published Keywords, never having had the chance to take on, in the pages of Tribune, what he thought was the disastrous policy of George Orwell, who had suggested that proletarians (or ‘nobodies’, in Morlock’s formula) stick to simple Anglo-Saxon monosyllables, more honest and less liable to fall into Stalinist obscurantism and gobbledegook. Williams considered this strategy a bogus and condescending populism that was all too easy a recommendation coming from the dissident Etonian and classical scholar Eric Blair. Ironically, learning Latin was, for Williams, a means to the precise antithesis of Morlock’s conceited proposal. Iain On 10 Nov 2019, at 07:14, Sean Cubitt wrote: Eheu Morlock sadly you picked the wrong language: the UK premiere B Johnson has made a habit of adding latin tags to his outrageous posh-boy persona behind which hides a refusal to publish a budget, the official financial predictions for Brexit, the results of an enquiry into alleged financial impropriety and the results of a major enquiry into Russian interference and donations to his party. Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a gurantee of anything perhaps ancient Greek . . . Sean Cubitt Goldsmiths, University of London (U of Melbourne from Jan 2020) From: nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org> mailto:nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org>> on behalf of nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org>> Sent: 10 November 2019 11:00 To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org>> Subject: nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> You can reach the person managing the list at nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 From: Morlock Elloi mailto:morlockel...@gmail.com>> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com <mailto:5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed What would be consequences of using Latin language among group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the above set to learn Latin) First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment and access. Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a foreign tongue. Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking technology to attract interest globally. Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam senti
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
https://areena.yle.fi/1-1931339 missed it by 5 months ... it was a fun program ... after suffering through five years of Latin in JR & HS... ipse dixit ... jh Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! -- ++ Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD hanging on to the Laramide Orogeny http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ ++ # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Eheu Morlock sadly you picked the wrong language: the UK premiere B Johnson has made a habit of adding latin tags to his outrageous posh-boy persona behind which hides a refusal to publish a budget, the official financial predictions for Brexit, the results of an enquiry into alleged financial impropriety and the results of a major enquiry into Russian interference and donations to his party. Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a gurantee of anything perhaps ancient Greek . . . Sean Cubitt Goldsmiths, University of London (U of Melbourne from Jan 2020) From: nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org on behalf of nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org Sent: 10 November 2019 11:00 To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org Subject: nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to nettime-l@mail.kein.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org You can reach the person managing the list at nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 From: Morlock Elloi To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed What would be consequences of using Latin language among group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the above set to learn Latin) First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment and access. Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a foreign tongue. Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking technology to attract interest globally. Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! -- # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 ** # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Latin as revolutionary act?
What would be consequences of using Latin language among group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the above set to learn Latin) First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment and access. Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a foreign tongue. Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking technology to attract interest globally. Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
