Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
On 16/06/2002, shane did utter into the folds of space: > On Saturday 15 June 2002 02:16 pm, FemmeFatale did speak unto the huddled > masses, saying: >> Now help me convince my g/f ;p > can't be done, g/fs are beyond reason by definition. ;) A bumper sticker I have seen: "If it has tits or tyres its TROUBLE" -- Regards, Mark Van Bruggen [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is always a way, it's just reality that's the problem !! == Mark Van Bruggen Microsoft OEM Certified Phone : 07 4926 4900 Computer Systems Supplier Mobile: 04 3886 4900 Internet / Computer Technician E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rockhampton QLD AU == Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 15 June 2002 02:16 pm, FemmeFatale did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > Now help me convince my g/f ;p can't be done, g/fs are beyond reason by definition. ;) - -- "My job is bring comfort to the disturbed, and disturb the comfortable." shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9C/lGBwq+ZwvIN/oRAkl8AJ9iRnaH5ypUzRs4158Qjpy6s5N0/QCeI5jo 7uPClraKRqZKqd9hNC+Rp5M= =4Pm6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
Warren Post wrote: > > Users will also find something familiar when you switch them > > to linux down the road. > > Yes, this is _really_ important to users. The Windows/MS Office/MSIE users I've >shown Linux to like it but don't see it as anything practical, because they don't see >their favorite apps. The Windows/OpenOffice/Netscape users I've shown Linux to say >"Wow! It's just like Windows, only better!" We know, of course, that Linux isn't >"just like Windows, only better." But this kind of love at first sight on the part of >users is what I want to achieve in order to insure a successful migration. > > Warren > sounds very successful to me. :) Now help me convince my g/f ;p -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: "We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts." - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
On Fri, 2002-06-14 at 14:07, Joshua James wrote: > At least if you switch to OpenOffice you'll save a ton of money on > licensing. US$10,625 is what we saved by not buying 25 licenses for MS Office... and after a couple of days of help, MS Office users prefer OpenOffice. The cost savings are what makes management sit up straight and pay attention, so I'm pushing that. I have a mandate to eliminate illegal software and have found a few workstations with copies of Windows that are... er... prelegalized, so I may use one or two of those as Linux testbeds and later present management with the price tag of _not_ switching to Linux. > Users will also find something familiar when you switch them > to linux down the road. Yes, this is _really_ important to users. The Windows/MS Office/MSIE users I've shown Linux to like it but don't see it as anything practical, because they don't see their favorite apps. The Windows/OpenOffice/Netscape users I've shown Linux to say "Wow! It's just like Windows, only better!" We know, of course, that Linux isn't "just like Windows, only better." But this kind of love at first sight on the part of users is what I want to achieve in order to insure a successful migration. Warren Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
On Fri, 2002-06-14 at 14:40, shane wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Friday 14 June 2002 12:36 pm, Warren Post did speak unto the huddled > masses, saying: > > > Short > > of changing the OS, however, I've been given carte blanche to "improve > > the system." What should I be doing now to insure that a future > > migration to LM goes smoothly? I'm thinking of things like using FAT32 > > wherever possible instead of NTFS, and migrating users from MS Office to > > OpenOffice. > > isn't changing to mandrake "improving the system? :) That's certainly how I see it! > what apps do they use? * MS Office has been replaced by OpenOffice. * Corel is being replaced by The Gimp and OpenOffice Draw. Unresolved problems so far are the lack of clip art and the inability to open legacy Corel files. * MS Publisher, Broderbund Banner - I haven't found anything sufficiently lobotomized to satisfy users accustomed to canned solutions. * AutoCAD and ARCview - I haven't started looking for alternatives to these yet. But the Really Big App is a proprietary database and information management system done in Visual Basic and Foxpro. Being able to run this and access the Foxpro databases on the fileserver is what will make or break a future migration to Linux. A few modules are still being implemented by the contractor, and the programmers tell me that if Linux can do Visual, the app should run fine. The LAN has no connection to the outside world, so that makes things easier. At the moment it's a simple workgroup but I have to change it to a domain with MS Active Directory next week to make our new network antivirus work. Though I was tempted to leave the system unprotected so when the inevitable meltdown occurs I could tell management "this doesn't happen with Linux". :-) Warren Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
if you are using win98 still, I wouldn't use 98lite to remove IE.. sad fact is that mozilla doesn't do activeX, and windows update needs it.. so if you remove ie, you will make windoze even less secure then normal since you won't be able to run win update and get the patches.. you could go there in one windows PC with IE and go and read the readmes for each patch and follow the link and download the patch manually, but thats a very time consumming process, especially when you see how many patchs are now out for 98 and 98SE... either do that, or just delete all links to IE and use mozilla, if you run windows update from the menu, it'll load IE. I did that on one system and even renamed the mozilla shortcuts to Internet Explorer, they then asked me if I updated the computer because the icon was different and favorites was now called bookmarks, other then that they didn't even know. (and you can change the icon to match IE if you want.) rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sridhar Dhanapalan Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 12:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM On 14 Jun 2002 13:36:27 -0600, Warren Post <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is a little off topic, so if there's a better forum for my question > just point me to it. > > I have a client with a Windows 2000 LAN. Someday I'll finally convince > management to migrate to Linux Mandrake, but today's not the day. Short > of changing the OS, however, I've been given carte blanche to "improve > the system." What should I be doing now to insure that a future > migration to LM goes smoothly? I'm thinking of things like using FAT32 > wherever possible instead of NTFS, and migrating users from MS Office to > OpenOffice. I think you're on the right track. IMHO, this is the best way to switch to from Windows to GNU/Linux: 1. Gradually change to apps and protocols that are available for both systems. 2. Once everyone is used to the changes done in step 1, install GNU/Linux in a dual-boot configuration. 3. People should now use GNU/Linux but can now fall back to Windows if required. 4. Provide training and help and make sure that everyone is okay with GNU/Linux. I think the most appropriate motto here is 'slow and steady'. You seem to be in Step 1 at present. Using FAT and OpenOffice.org (or StarOffice if you want) is a good start. I suggest you change the servers before you tinker with desktop systems. Use Samba for file and print sharing, LDAP for e-mail, et cetera. Once that is settled and everything is in order, you can work on the desktop area. MS apps are highly proprietary; I suggest you don't use them at all. Mozilla is great for Web browsing, e-mail and more. You may even want to consider removing IE completely using 98lite (http://www.98lite.net/) to improve system stability and speed, and to force people onto Mozilla. If you have an intranet, ensure that all its pages are standards-compliant. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan "... if you're a basic PC user thinking about buying XP, don't. It's basically malware. It harangues you with nagging, fake-friendly reminders to obtain a Passport and submit to product activation, and treats you like a child when you try to do anything heretical, like install a device driver of which it disapproves." -- Thomas C. Greene, "Win-XP vs Red Hat 7.2", The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk), 2001-10-30 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
On 14 Jun 2002 13:36:27 -0600, Warren Post <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is a little off topic, so if there's a better forum for my question > just point me to it. > > I have a client with a Windows 2000 LAN. Someday I'll finally convince > management to migrate to Linux Mandrake, but today's not the day. Short > of changing the OS, however, I've been given carte blanche to "improve > the system." What should I be doing now to insure that a future > migration to LM goes smoothly? I'm thinking of things like using FAT32 > wherever possible instead of NTFS, and migrating users from MS Office to > OpenOffice. I think you're on the right track. IMHO, this is the best way to switch to from Windows to GNU/Linux: 1. Gradually change to apps and protocols that are available for both systems. 2. Once everyone is used to the changes done in step 1, install GNU/Linux in a dual-boot configuration. 3. People should now use GNU/Linux but can now fall back to Windows if required. 4. Provide training and help and make sure that everyone is okay with GNU/Linux. I think the most appropriate motto here is 'slow and steady'. You seem to be in Step 1 at present. Using FAT and OpenOffice.org (or StarOffice if you want) is a good start. I suggest you change the servers before you tinker with desktop systems. Use Samba for file and print sharing, LDAP for e-mail, et cetera. Once that is settled and everything is in order, you can work on the desktop area. MS apps are highly proprietary; I suggest you don't use them at all. Mozilla is great for Web browsing, e-mail and more. You may even want to consider removing IE completely using 98lite (http://www.98lite.net/) to improve system stability and speed, and to force people onto Mozilla. If you have an intranet, ensure that all its pages are standards-compliant. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan "... if you're a basic PC user thinking about buying XP, don't. It's basically malware. It harangues you with nagging, fake-friendly reminders to obtain a Passport and submit to product activation, and treats you like a child when you try to do anything heretical, like install a device driver of which it disapproves." -- Thomas C. Greene, "Win-XP vs Red Hat 7.2", The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk), 2001-10-30 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
Warren Post wrote: >This is a little off topic, so if there's a better forum for my question >just point me to it. > >I have a client with a Windows 2000 LAN. Someday I'll finally convince >management to migrate to Linux Mandrake, but today's not the day. Short >of changing the OS, however, I've been given carte blanche to "improve >the system." What should I be doing now to insure that a future >migration to LM goes smoothly? I'm thinking of things like using FAT32 >wherever possible instead of NTFS, and migrating users from MS Office to >OpenOffice. > OpenOffice is a good choice, as the look is similar to MS Office (for writing documents, I find LyX ten times better than any word processor, but the average Word user tends to react to it with panic). Another plus for OO is that you can give users a CDROM that they can install on their PCs at home. OTOH, I'd recommend being extremely careful about migrating users from anything to anything. No matter what the merits of the new program or the demerits of the old one may be, users tend to object to change being thrust upon them. I'm trying to encourage a similar migration to OO, but I'm doing it slowly and stealthily. I have OO on our one Linux box, so users who can't be bothered to reboot into Windows can read Word documents in OO. Now there's an initiative to encourage staff to create their own websites, so I shall be pointing out that you can use OO as a WYSIWYG HTML composer (so far Netscape Composer hasn't gone down well). If enough people start using OO and liking it, then I'll install it on the Winboxes. Then I can point out that the only things people use regularly are OO and Netscape, so we might as well switch to Linux. Softly, softly catchee monkey. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 14 June 2002 12:36 pm, Warren Post did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > Short > of changing the OS, however, I've been given carte blanche to "improve > the system." What should I be doing now to insure that a future > migration to LM goes smoothly? I'm thinking of things like using FAT32 > wherever possible instead of NTFS, and migrating users from MS Office to > OpenOffice. isn't changing to mandrake "improving the system? :) look at mozilla for browsing, and _not_ using exchange server if that is within the realm of the possible. using the mozilla mail client, or hell anything that isn't outlook might be a good idea, or you might prefer outlook so you can change to evolution later, tough call. what apps do they use? what do they do on the lan? is there a single web server? gateway/router? that is a good place to get them to try a single box. - -- "There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't." shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9ClSsBwq+ZwvIN/oRAuulAJ4ygX6IJPwZacH8Sv1KAl0pT2+qbACfVQLt CVJaIZsf6SQrONPn4QWdWnw= =iiDO -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
At least if you switch to OpenOffice you'll save a ton of money on licensing. Users will also find something familiar when you switch them to linux down the road. I'm in the same place as you. I really do like Win2k/XP but I'm trying to switch to Mandrake. That way down the road I'll have enough experience to help the end users. On Fri, 2002-06-14 at 15:36, Warren Post wrote: > This is a little off topic, so if there's a better forum for my question > just point me to it. > > I have a client with a Windows 2000 LAN. Someday I'll finally convince > management to migrate to Linux Mandrake, but today's not the day. Short > of changing the OS, however, I've been given carte blanche to "improve > the system." What should I be doing now to insure that a future > migration to LM goes smoothly? I'm thinking of things like using FAT32 > wherever possible instead of NTFS, and migrating users from MS Office to > OpenOffice. > > Warren > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] OT: Pre-migration strategies: Win2K -> LM
This is a little off topic, so if there's a better forum for my question just point me to it. I have a client with a Windows 2000 LAN. Someday I'll finally convince management to migrate to Linux Mandrake, but today's not the day. Short of changing the OS, however, I've been given carte blanche to "improve the system." What should I be doing now to insure that a future migration to LM goes smoothly? I'm thinking of things like using FAT32 wherever possible instead of NTFS, and migrating users from MS Office to OpenOffice. Warren Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
