Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
g I can teach you something? Never! Right - a community owned and edited web. Ours is at http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/WebHome You need to sign up as a user to gain editing rights. There are only a few formatting commands that you need to use, and you can get them by studying an existing entry. When you add or amend you copy and paste your signature as it appears at the bottom of the edit page. Anyone can edit or amend, but usually only do so if they have additional info. All changes are tracked. Easy!! Anne On Thursday 10 Jul 2003 4:36 am, Lanman wrote: Hey Anne; Long time no hear! UM, what's a Twiki? And where is it? Take Care! Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/10/2003 at 4:22 AM Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 09 Jul 2003 7:25 pm, Lanman wrote: For those needing a work-around for bastille-firewall, I just wanted to update you. I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record - when you've finished, will you put it on the TWiki, please? Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
You've already taught me things in the past Anne. I've found many of your psts to be very informative. This is just another installment we can add to that list. Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/10/2003 at 8:45 AM Anne Wilson wrote: g I can teach you something? Never! Right - a community owned and edited web. Ours is at http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/WebHome You need to sign up as a user to gain editing rights. There are only a few formatting commands that you need to use, and you can get them by studying an existing entry. When you add or amend you copy and paste your signature as it appears at the bottom of the edit page. Anyone can edit or amend, but usually only do so if they have additional info. All changes are tracked. Easy!! Anne On Thursday 10 Jul 2003 4:36 am, Lanman wrote: Hey Anne; Long time no hear! UM, what's a Twiki? And where is it? Take Care! Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/10/2003 at 4:22 AM Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 09 Jul 2003 7:25 pm, Lanman wrote: For those needing a work-around for bastille-firewall, I just wanted to update you. I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record - when you've finished, will you put it on the TWiki, please? Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 04:22, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 09 Jul 2003 7:25 pm, Lanman wrote: For those needing a work-around for bastille-firewall, I just wanted to update you. I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record - when you've finished, will you put it on the TWiki, please? Anne I second that! DougB Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
Doug and Anne; As soon as I get some feeling back into my fingertips ( one of my last posts was lengthy - to say the least! ), I'll probably forward it to you both, and hopefully you can put it on the TWiki site. I'm not sure I'll be able to do it as quickly as either of you, and I'm going to be back in the office soon, so if you don't mind I'll ask you this one favor? Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/10/2003 at 2:06 PM Douglas Bainbridge wrote: On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 04:22, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 09 Jul 2003 7:25 pm, Lanman wrote: For those needing a work-around for bastille-firewall, I just wanted to update you. I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record - when you've finished, will you put it on the TWiki, please? Anne I second that! DougB Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
On Thursday 10 Jul 2003 2:20 pm, Lanman wrote: Doug and Anne; As soon as I get some feeling back into my fingertips ( one of my last posts was lengthy - to say the least! ), I'll probably forward it to you both, and hopefully you can put it on the TWiki site. I'm not sure I'll be able to do it as quickly as either of you, and I'm going to be back in the office soon, so if you don't mind I'll ask you this one favor? Lanman OK, Lanman. I'll be out most of tomorrow, but send it when it's ready and I'll put it up as soon as I can. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:52:03 -0400 Lanman wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: If you'd like a work-around for bastille-firewall on Mandrake 9.0, 9.1, let me know. You'll probably laugh your ass off when you find out what I did to get it working! I would, as I'm trying to get it running on Mandrake 9.1, until now without success... -- Cheers Peter Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 20:52, Lanman wrote: If you'd like a work-around for bastille-firewall on Mandrake 9.0, 9.1, let me know. You'll probably laugh your ass off when you find out what I did to get it working! Lanman I like to see that... tried Bastille yesterday and no go. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
Peter; I'm working on putting a plain-language mini-howto together for Bastille. I should have it later today. Check back in a couple of hours. I'm having a bit of trouble finding a default config file for Bastille. Once I have one from a current version of Bastille, I'll modify it so that it makes more sense! I'll get back to you soon. Lanman Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
For those needing a work-around for bastille-firewall, I just wanted to update you. Based on the current dependancies regarding Mandrake-Linux 9.0 and 9.1, it is not possible to install or run tinyfirewall. If it can't be run, you will be unable to acquire the bastille-firewall.cfg file required to set your firewall rules. I am currently applying a new set of comments to the default config file you require, but it's taking longer to do than I expected. For those of you that already have bastille installed on another system, and want to apply it to a Mandrake 9.0 or 9.1 installed system, the switch is easy. I've included the basic steps below. Later today, I'll post a message to the list with my completed config file, which anyone can have by emailing me off-list. it will include decent explanations and examples for each required entry in the file. Here's the steps; 1) Stop any instances of iptables with the following command service iptables stop and hitting the enter key, 2) Clear any residual rules left in ram with the following command iptables -F , confirm that all rules have been reset to the default Accept policy by typing iptables -L 3) Permanently stop the iptables service in Mandrake Control Center. 4) Create a folder in /etc called Bastille with a capital B, and copy your previous bastille-firewall.cfg file into it.] 5) Copy the bastille-netfilter command from your mandrake 8.2 system (located in the /sbin folder) to the /sbin folder on your Mandrake 9.0 or 9.1 system. 6) Check the bastille-firewall.cfg file you copied from the older mandrake system to make sure that it applies to this machine, 7) Open a command shell or terminal, and type the following the command bastille-netfilter restart 8) Enjoy! Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/9/2003 at 1:14 PM Peter Meyns wrote: On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:52:03 -0400 Lanman wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: If you'd like a work-around for bastille-firewall on Mandrake 9.0, 9.1, let me know. You'll probably laugh your ass off when you find out what I did to get it working! I would, as I'm trying to get it running on Mandrake 9.1, until now without success... -- Cheers Peter Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
On Tuesday 08 July 2003 04:15 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: lord i suffered with this when i started with Bastille...its not intuitive so don't fret. At a command prompt type Interative-Bastille (or just Inter (then hit the TAB key)) and away you go. Be sure to get the GUIed ver (TK or Curses version) its far simpler IMO as well. HTH :) - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Be careful too - its easy to lock yourself out of a lot of things on your own system with Bastille. I did, a couple of times. -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
At 01:55 PM 7/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: On Tuesday 08 July 2003 04:15 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: lord i suffered with this when i started with Bastille...its not intuitive so don't fret. At a command prompt type Interative-Bastille (or just Inter (then hit the TAB key)) and away you go. Be sure to get the GUIed ver (TK or Curses version) its far simpler IMO as well. HTH :) - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Be careful too - its easy to lock yourself out of a lot of things on your own system with Bastille. I did, a couple of times. -- /\ DarkLord lol no kidding. But it seems it won't work on MDK... wonder why? Anyone Lanman??? - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
Dear Femme; ( By the way, I love the handle!), wouldv'e gotten here sooner, but I was having too much fun screwing with Joe's brain. For the record, I don't use Bastille as a hardening tool, just as a firewall. One thing though, it apparently has an Undo option or command. But for most home networks it's a lot easier to set up than Shorewall. If you compare the GUI in MCC for shorewall with the wizard that Tiny Firewall used to have, I find Shorewall to be too vague. I realise that users like it simple, but Shorewall is too simple! And the brave ones who try to config it using webmin need a PH.D. to figure it out. Ever see a HowTo written for a newbie? With plain-language and easy examples included? Not too often, I'll bet! Tiny Firewall was very easy, and editing the bastille-firewall.cfg file manually, was easier than doing a Samba share. Faster too. That's why I came up with my work-around. I still have Shorewall installed on my main server/gateway/firewall, but that sucker's having a long vacation. It started screwing up my ADSL connection. But one command in a console brought everything back to life with Bastille. Something else, If you use MCC's Gateway/Internet Connection Sharing wizard it wants to load DHCP which I loathe. I don't like the idea of running services that I don't want in the first place, and it screws up my webmin access to many of my PC's. Bastille uses one line of text - one line! - to set up ICS, and doesn't require any other services to get the job done. What's NOT to like? Back to you Femme! Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/9/2003 at 4:20 PM FemmeFatale wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: On Tuesday 08 July 2003 04:15 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: lord i suffered with this when i started with Bastille...its not intuitive so don't fret. At a command prompt type Interative-Bastille (or just Inter (then hit the TAB key)) and away you go. Be sure to get the GUIed ver (TK or Curses version) its far simpler IMO as well. HTH :) - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Be careful too - its easy to lock yourself out of a lot of things on your own system with Bastille. I did, a couple of times. -- /\ DarkLord lol no kidding. But it seems it won't work on MDK... wonder why? Anyone Lanman??? - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
On Wednesday 09 July 2003 08:06 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: At 07:53 PM 7/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: Dear Femme; snip What's NOT to like? Back to you Femme! Lanman U needn't sell it to me dear. And ty, your own nicks unique too heh. Just wondering why it doesn't work with 9/1 LM? :\ - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Jumping in here, sorry, but my guess would be that when the first downsizing at Mandrake took place, one of the people released was the guy doing the Bastille programming. It was his baby and maybe due to hard feelings or something the ML folks decided not to include it anymore. On the other hand they may have decided that it was not robust enough to continue. Just my $.02 worth of over the backyard fence type gossip. -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
On Wednesday 09 Jul 2003 7:25 pm, Lanman wrote: For those needing a work-around for bastille-firewall, I just wanted to update you. I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record - when you've finished, will you put it on the TWiki, please? Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
Femme; Actually, after being an MCSE (Gak! Choke! Kaff!) for several years, it was one of the only useful things I took away from that experience. Lanman is something from Microsoft called the Microsoft Windows Lanman Remote API Protocol (lanman), and was also loosely called LAN Manager. Since I was one, the name made sense! Not trying to sell you anything by the way. Bastille gives you problems on Mandrake 9.0 9.1 because Mandrake dropped tinyfirewall from the drakxtools-newt package for 9.0 and higher. The end result was that you couldn't run tinyfirewall, and therefore you couldn't get the bastille config file. Without that file, bastille's firewall was dead in the water. But, if you have the config file, all you have to do is recreate the /etc/Bastille folder, grab the bastille-netfilter command from an older version of Mandrake, etc. (Please see previous post on this). The only other problem you run into, happens if iptables is running as a service. Once that's been deleted from the start on boot services list, you're all set. So, what I'm working on is a decent config file built from the default config file, in the hopes that it will be easy enough to allow anyone to modify it for their needs, including shiny new newbie's who no longer have the tinyfirewall wizard to get them started. Keep your fingers crossed! It's a work in progress. Later C.P. ! Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/9/2003 at 7:06 PM FemmeFatale wrote: At 07:53 PM 7/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: Dear Femme; snip What's NOT to like? Back to you Femme! Lanman U needn't sell it to me dear. And ty, your own nicks unique too heh. Just wondering why it doesn't work with 9/1 LM? :\ - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
Hey Anne; Long time no hear! UM, what's a Twiki? And where is it? Take Care! Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/10/2003 at 4:22 AM Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 09 Jul 2003 7:25 pm, Lanman wrote: For those needing a work-around for bastille-firewall, I just wanted to update you. I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record - when you've finished, will you put it on the TWiki, please? Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
At 09:19 PM 7/8/2003 +0200, you wrote: On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:05:46 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in another thread: or another packet filter perhaps? Bastille is a better firewall IMO Thank you. The description on the web looks very good. I downloaded and most probably installed it from an RPM i.586. I can see its files in various directories, but one thing I didn't figure out yet is: How do I start it? Typing bastille in root command line as recommended in a manual produces something like command not found... There seem to be some very basic Linux things that I don't know yet - too trivial to be mentioned in any FAQ - but I'll find them out anyway! :-)) -- Cheers Peter lord i suffered with this when i started with Bastille...its not intuitive so don't fret. At a command prompt type Interative-Bastille (or just Inter (then hit the TAB key)) and away you go. Be sure to get the GUIed ver (TK or Curses version) its far simpler IMO as well. HTH :) - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
Hello FemmeFatale, on Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:15:09 -0600GMT (08.07.03, 22:15 +0200GMT here), you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : How do I start it? lord i suffered with this when i started with Bastille...its not intuitive so don't fret. Thanks for the encouragement. :-) At a command prompt type Interative-Bastille (or just Inter (then hit the TAB key)) and away you go. I'll try that one tomorrow when I'll be on Linux again. *s* Be sure to get the GUIed ver (TK or Curses version) its far simpler IMO as well. I think it's TK - at least I read something like that... I prefer a GUI myself. *S* -- Cheers Peter Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again. Winamp currently playing: Kula Shaker - Govinda Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
Femme; Is someone trying to use Bastille on a Mandrake 9.0 or 9.1 system? I thought it woldn't work on those versions of Mandrake. Has there been a change? I still prefer the firewall in Bastille, but I had to devise a work-around in order to get it running a Mandrake 9.x . Please let me know if it works now. Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/8/2003 at 2:15 PM FemmeFatale wrote: At 09:19 PM 7/8/2003 +0200, you wrote: On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:05:46 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in another thread: or another packet filter perhaps? Bastille is a better firewall IMO Thank you. The description on the web looks very good. I downloaded and most probably installed it from an RPM i.586. I can see its files in various directories, but one thing I didn't figure out yet is: How do I start it? Typing bastille in root command line as recommended in a manual produces something like command not found... There seem to be some very basic Linux things that I don't know yet - too trivial to be mentioned in any FAQ - but I'll find them out anyway! :-)) -- Cheers Peter lord i suffered with this when i started with Bastille...its not intuitive so don't fret. At a command prompt type Interative-Bastille (or just Inter (then hit the TAB key)) and away you go. Be sure to get the GUIed ver (TK or Curses version) its far simpler IMO as well. HTH :) - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
At 08:51 PM 7/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: Femme; Is someone trying to use Bastille on a Mandrake 9.0 or 9.1 system? I thought it woldn't work on those versions of Mandrake. Has there been a change? I still prefer the firewall in Bastille, but I had to devise a work-around in order to get it running a Mandrake 9.x . Please let me know if it works now. Lanman AFAIK you have to uninstall Shorewall first Then you can install Bastille. This is from memory of someone else who did just that in 9.0. I have not tried as yet on 9.1 or 9. No reason to lately...had no time to screw around with linux...sigh... my life went into overdrive. :( That is my understanding of how things stand... if i'm wrong someone will correct me. From what I can see too, shorewall causes more headaches than its been worth for most ppl...wish MDK would reinstate Bastille, tho I believe they can't due to a liscensing issue. :( - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
If you'd like a work-around for bastille-firewall on Mandrake 9.0, 9.1, let me know. You'll probably laugh your ass off when you find out what I did to get it working! Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/8/2003 at 7:39 PM FemmeFatale wrote: At 08:51 PM 7/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: Femme; Is someone trying to use Bastille on a Mandrake 9.0 or 9.1 system? I thought it woldn't work on those versions of Mandrake. Has there been a change? I still prefer the firewall in Bastille, but I had to devise a work-around in order to get it running a Mandrake 9.x . Please let me know if it works now. Lanman AFAIK you have to uninstall Shorewall first Then you can install Bastille. This is from memory of someone else who did just that in 9.0. I have not tried as yet on 9.1 or 9. No reason to lately...had no time to screw around with linux...sigh... my life went into overdrive. :( That is my understanding of how things stand... if i'm wrong someone will correct me. From what I can see too, shorewall causes more headaches than its been worth for most ppl...wish MDK would reinstate Bastille, tho I believe they can't due to a liscensing issue. :( - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Bastille firewall [was: Re: [newbie] No connection via Linux]
I tried the 2.1.1 rpm and it came up at start up saying it does not work on Mandrake 9.1. I don't see a newer version on their site. Barry Femme; Is someone trying to use Bastille on a Mandrake 9.0 or 9.1 system? I thought it woldn't work on those versions of Mandrake. Has there been a change? I still prefer the firewall in Bastille, but I had to devise a work-around in order to get it running a Mandrake 9.x . Please let me know if it works now. Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/8/2003 at 2:15 PM FemmeFatale wrote: At 09:19 PM 7/8/2003 +0200, you wrote: On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:05:46 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in another thread: or another packet filter perhaps? Bastille is a better firewall IMO Thank you. The description on the web looks very good. I downloaded and most probably installed it from an RPM i.586. I can see its files in various directories, but one thing I didn't figure out yet is: How do I start it? Typing bastille in root command line as recommended in a manual produces something like command not found... There seem to be some very basic Linux things that I don't know yet - too trivial to be mentioned in any FAQ - but I'll find them out anyway! :-)) -- Cheers Peter lord i suffered with this when i started with Bastille...its not intuitive so don't fret. At a command prompt type Interative-Bastille (or just Inter (then hit the TAB key)) and away you go. Be sure to get the GUIed ver (TK or Curses version) its far simpler IMO as well. HTH :) - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com ___ Internet Access, Shared Dedicated Web Hosting. Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.SharedPoint.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
