Re: [newbie] Recognition of Todd Lyons
On Wednesday 15 Jan 2003 11:36 pm, Peter Watson wrote: On Wednesday 15 Jan 2003 16:51, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: I want to make an official appeal to the Mandrake management to keep Todd Lyons securely in the company, in the recent light of current events regarding the Chapter 11. Todd Lyons has been an incredible asset to the Expert list, helping countless users with their problems and concerns. It would be a terrible loss to Mandrake and an even more terrible loss to all Mandrake users were anything to happen that would force him to seek other employment. We want him around and we want him to stay. Civileme was a huge asset to all of us here in North America, as well as the rest of the world. We don't want the same thing to happen to Todd Lyons. If this concerns you now is the time to make your support known. Thank you, Todd. LX I wrote to Jaques le Marois when I heard that Civileme was to be booted and received a snotty reply for my trouble. I certainly agree with you about the contribution that Todd makes, but I'm not sure that Mandrake are sophisticated enough to value the opinions of their customers (look at the Mandrakestore debacle). If a CEO cares about his company and has to make decisions about redundancies he is already hurting - believe me, I know. To have an outsider who does not know the problems nor have to deal with them telling him how to deal with the situation is at best unhelpful - and I can guarantee that it will increase the hurt. The reply you got may not have helped the situation, but, by god, it is understandable in human terms Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Recognition of Todd Lyons
I wrote to Jaques le Marois when I heard that Civileme was to be booted and received a snotty reply for my trouble. I certainly agree with you about the contribution that Todd makes, but I'm not sure that Mandrake are sophisticated enough to value the opinions of their customers (look at the Mandrakestore debacle). If a CEO cares about his company and has to make decisions about redundancies he is already hurting - believe me, I know. To have an outsider who does not know the problems nor have to deal with them telling him how to deal with the situation is at best unhelpful - and I can guarantee that it will increase the hurt. The reply you got may not have helped the situation, but, by god, it is understandable in human terms True, but it does highlight one point. It isn't the product, the CEO or anything of that sort that makes a business successful; it's the customers. This is particularly important in so-called high-tech areas, where customers/users are frequently dismissed as a bunch of ignorant fools. There's an old movie, Tron, in which the main character is sucked into a computer where he interacts with applications that take the form other people. At one point he's talking with an accounting package and insisting that he isn't a program; he's a user. The package replies, Really? My mother used to tell me about users, but I thought it was simply a myth. The further a business goes down that road, the more problems they'll have to deal with. Eventually they become bankrupt (or micro$haft). Ken --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/03 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Recognition of Todd Lyons
snip If a CEO cares about his company and has to make decisions about redundancies he is already hurting - believe me, I know. To have an outsider who does not know the problems nor have to deal with them telling him how to deal with the situation is at best unhelpful - and I can guarantee that it will increase the hurt. The reply you got may not have helped the situation, but, by god, it is understandable in human terms Anne /snip I did *not* tell him how to deal with the situation, in fact I expressed my sympathy with his predicament and told him i would like him to know how valuable I had found Civileme's assistance to be and how much I thought people on these lists would miss him. I hardly think that justifies an impolite response. I must admit that I've never been too clear about Mandrakes commercial strategy and would not see it as my place to tell them how to run the business. but I'm damn sure that I am a customer and that it is businesses who value and delight their customers that succeed. The Mandrake distro is first class IMHO but my experience of and what I read about their customer care leaves something to be desired. I hope for their sake as well as ours that they can get their act together on this. Regards Pete ArdnamurchanSxotland Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Recognition of Todd Lyons
On Thursday 16 Jan 2003 11:19 am, Ken Maurer wrote: I wrote to Jaques le Marois when I heard that Civileme was to be booted and received a snotty reply for my trouble. I certainly agree with you about the contribution that Todd makes, but I'm not sure that Mandrake are sophisticated enough to value the opinions of their customers (look at the Mandrakestore debacle). If a CEO cares about his company and has to make decisions about redundancies he is already hurting - believe me, I know. To have an outsider who does not know the problems nor have to deal with them telling him how to deal with the situation is at best unhelpful - and I can guarantee that it will increase the hurt. The reply you got may not have helped the situation, but, by god, it is understandable in human terms True, but it does highlight one point. It isn't the product, the CEO or anything of that sort that makes a business successful; it's the customers. This is particularly important in so-called high-tech areas, where customers/users are frequently dismissed as a bunch of ignorant fools. There's an old movie, Tron, in which the main character is sucked into a computer where he interacts with applications that take the form other people. At one point he's talking with an accounting package and insisting that he isn't a program; he's a user. The package replies, Really? My mother used to tell me about users, but I thought it was simply a myth. The further a business goes down that road, the more problems they'll have to deal with. Eventually they become bankrupt (or micro$haft). I understand your concerns, but the fact remains that it is necessary to exist in the real world. With financial worries off your back you can then give more attention to users - which I'm sure they would like to. BTW, I'm sure the official statement talked about 2M Euros, which by reporting has now become 4M. It's bad enough without this kind of inflation. The best hope is that this Chapter 11 business will show them ways out of the morass that imposed management put on them. It's a fact the venture capitalist money sounds an exciting way forward, but too often the company finds, as Mandrakesoft did, that they are then forced down roads that they, at gut level, know to be wrong for them. They can't escape, but are the ones that will be held responsible. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Recognition of Todd Lyons
On Wednesday 15 Jan 2003 16:51, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: I want to make an official appeal to the Mandrake management to keep Todd Lyons securely in the company, in the recent light of current events regarding the Chapter 11. Todd Lyons has been an incredible asset to the Expert list, helping countless users with their problems and concerns. It would be a terrible loss to Mandrake and an even more terrible loss to all Mandrake users were anything to happen that would force him to seek other employment. We want him around and we want him to stay. Civileme was a huge asset to all of us here in North America, as well as the rest of the world. We don't want the same thing to happen to Todd Lyons. If this concerns you now is the time to make your support known. Thank you, Todd. LX I wrote to Jaques le Marois when I heard that Civileme was to be booted and received a snotty reply for my trouble. I certainly agree with you about the contribution that Todd makes, but I'm not sure that Mandrake are sophisticated enough to value the opinions of their customers (look at the Mandrakestore debacle). Regards Pete ArdnamurchanScotland Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Recognition of Todd Lyons
On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 18:36, Peter Watson wrote: I wrote to Jaques le Marois when I heard that Civileme was to be booted and received a snotty reply for my trouble. I certainly agree with you about the contribution that Todd makes, but I'm not sure that Mandrake are sophisticated enough to value the opinions of their customers (look at the Mandrakestore debacle). Regards Pete Ardnamurchan Scotland Pete, all I can say is to take heart, because there is definitely different management in place. It is my hope and belief that the French will know who it is that butters their bread, and therefore make sure that there is a way to keep Todd in place, and ASAP bring Civileme back. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
