[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Hello Margaret Thanks for that. I hear what you say re Jimmy but this is hardly an obscure tune and it seems strange that he would pluck that name out of the air as any other tune with that name is proving elusive. As for the version in question you can hear it here: [1]http://www.folknortheast.com/archive/detail.asp?id=P0010010 I do find the thing fascinating and realise there's bound to be some human conjecture here. I'm wondering now if it might be another case of the 'big dog' interpretation of La Grande Chaine. Which it turns out came from youthful imaginings at a Folkworks Durham Youth Summer School and was then aired by Eleanor Walker on the Session tunes site, but then John Armstrong of Carrick is a much less fanciful source. The matter of real importance and certainty, of course, is that it has survived in various forms and is a cracking tune. Anthony --- On Thu, 14/7/11, Margaret Watchorn wrote: From: Margaret Watchorn Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, 14 July, 2011, 22:51 I spent some time with John Armstrong c.1979/1980 playing tunes and going through his wonderful piles of mss. He was very kind and encouraging to a (then) young piper, and passed on some invaluable insights into how he played and what he thought about tunes. Unfortunately I don't have any record of playing the Morpeth Rant with him. I do remember that John was sometimes unsure of a tune from its title, but once the first notes were played, he knew exactly what it was. Similarly, the question 'How does it gan?' that Jimmy Little often asked when playing with Dishalagie was followed by an instant recall of the tune once it started. Best wishes Margaret -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 14 July 2011 22:04 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To make it absolutely clear, it was not I who attached the name Shield's to the soundclip. Whether the source - JA of C - gave it that title, I don't know. This is not impossible given the Clough connection. The FARNE Core Tunes article on Morpeth Rant (not my work) also gives the Shield attribution. On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Gibbons, John <[1][4]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk> wrote: But isn't Matt just quoting the Cloughs' title there? Beware of secondary sources, in other words - they don't corroborate where they are drawn from. A citation of 'The Morpeth Rant' (new or old) from anyone but the Cloughs, with the Shields' title, from pre-1900 would be interesting - one from anywhere near as far back as 1770, when 'The Morpeth Rant' made its first virtual appearance, would be astonishing. John -- References 1. mailto:[5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.folknortheast.com/archive/detail.asp?id=P0010010 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
It's clear that some people in the early/mid 20th C called it Shield's Hornpipe. Is there any evidence of this title from before 1900? >From before 1850? You have to push the 'Shield's Hornpipe' title back to 1770, the first ghostly appearance of 'The Morpeth Rant' in Vickers' contents page, remember! So far as I know, the Shields title postdates Shields's death by a century. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Anthony Robb [anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 15 July 2011 08:12 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; marga...@watchorn7.plus.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe Hello Margaret Thanks for that. I hear what you say re Jimmy but this is hardly an obscure tune and it seems strange that he would pluck that name out of the air as any other tune with that name is proving elusive. As for the version in question you can hear it here: [1]http://www.folknortheast.com/archive/detail.asp?id=P0010010 I do find the thing fascinating and realise there's bound to be some human conjecture here. I'm wondering now if it might be another case of the 'big dog' interpretation of La Grande Chaine. Which it turns out came from youthful imaginings at a Folkworks Durham Youth Summer School and was then aired by Eleanor Walker on the Session tunes site, but then John Armstrong of Carrick is a much less fanciful source. The matter of real importance and certainty, of course, is that it has survived in various forms and is a cracking tune. Anthony --- On Thu, 14/7/11, Margaret Watchorn wrote: From: Margaret Watchorn Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, 14 July, 2011, 22:51 I spent some time with John Armstrong c.1979/1980 playing tunes and going through his wonderful piles of mss. He was very kind and encouraging to a (then) young piper, and passed on some invaluable insights into how he played and what he thought about tunes. Unfortunately I don't have any record of playing the Morpeth Rant with him. I do remember that John was sometimes unsure of a tune from its title, but once the first notes were played, he knew exactly what it was. Similarly, the question 'How does it gan?' that Jimmy Little often asked when playing with Dishalagie was followed by an instant recall of the tune once it started. Best wishes Margaret -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 14 July 2011 22:04 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To make it absolutely clear, it was not I who attached the name Shield's to the soundclip. Whether the source - JA of C - gave it that title, I don't know. This is not impossible given the Clough connection. The FARNE Core Tunes article on Morpeth Rant (not my work) also gives the Shield attribution. On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Gibbons, John <[1][4]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk> wrote: But isn't Matt just quoting the Cloughs' title there? Beware of secondary sources, in other words - they don't corroborate where they are drawn from. A citation of 'The Morpeth Rant' (new or old) from anyone but the Cloughs, with the Shields' title, from pre-1900 would be interesting - one from anywhere near as far back as 1770, when 'The Morpeth Rant' made its first virtual appearance, would be astonishing. John -- References 1. mailto:[5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.folknortheast.com/archive/detail.asp?id=P0010010 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Anthony Robb <[1]anth...@robbpipes.com> wrote: The matter of real importance and certainty, of course, is that it has survived in various forms and is a cracking tune. Agreed, Anthony! And thanks for reminding us about Phil Ranson. At the time (1984-5) I was a recent economic migrant to Northumberland, Phil invited me to join his ceilidh band on guitar and fiddle. I am fascinated by the 'soup' that accompanies traditional tunes, the lore which has its own reality but is different from 'facts'. It is not inconceivable that Shield composed the Morpeth Rant; I have seen no evidence that convinces me he did; and does it matter? -- References 1. mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On 15 Jul 2011, at 09:48, Matt Seattle wrote: > I am fascinated by the 'soup' that accompanies traditional tunes, the > lore which has its own reality but is different from 'facts'. It is not > inconceivable that Shield composed the Morpeth Rant; I have seen no > evidence that convinces me he did; and does it matter? Matt's question raises the interesting issue of how tunes by known composers become 'traditional tunes' (what does that really mean?) and also how they evolve and are over-composed by subsequent players and editors. One good example of this is the Hesleyside Reel by Thomas J. Elliott of Hexham, acknowledged and thanked in the 1936 edition of the NPS Tunebook, but regarded now as thoroughly traditional. Players, as well as the editor of the most recent edition, have sensibly ignored Elliot's dotted 2nd and third notes of the first full bar and where the passage repeats. As he has it, it's awkward to play and adds nothing to the tune. Another 'traditional' tune, J.L Dunk's Whin Shields on the Wall was unplayable nonsense when given to the NPS in a literate-looking but impossible manuscript. Someone, probably the editor Gilbert Askew has bashed it into the excellent Whinshield's Hornpipe. Few people would now play Miss Forbes' Farewell to Banff at the speed Isaac Cooper intended it, as a slow song. At the usual present speed, it would seem that she couldn't get away fast enough. I certainly prefer it with some energetic pace. Finally, there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential connection between Shield and Morpeth. Shield is buried in Westminster Abbey, adjacent to Muzio Clementi, the first really significant composer for the piano and subsequent piano manufacturer. Clementi was 'discovered' in Rome and brought to England by an aristocrat, Peter Beckford who was doing the young rich toff's customary GrandTour. Beckford was, for a while, MP for Morpeth. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Proof at last! On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Francis Wood <[1]oatenp...@googlemail.com> wrote: Shield is buried in Westminster Abbey, adjacent to Muzio Clementi, the first really significant composer for the piano and subsequent piano manufacturer. Clementi was 'discovered' in Rome and brought to England by an aristocrat, Peter Beckford who was doing the young rich toff's customary GrandTour. Beckford was, for a while, MP for Morpeth. -- References 1. mailto:oatenp...@googlemail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:41, Francis Wood wrote: > Few people would now play Miss Forbes' Farewell to Banff at the speed Isaac > Cooper intended it, as a slow song. I think history and evolution have been fairly kind to Isaac Cooper. A lively 'Miss Forbes' Farewell' is a cracking tune! Other members of her family, also favoured with Cooper's titles have been less fortunate. Miss Betty Forbes and Miss Annie Forbes both have reels, neither of which seems to me to have any merit at all. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Francis Wood <[1]oatenp...@googlemail.com> wrote: I think history and evolution have been fairly kind to Isaac Cooper. A lively 'Miss Forbes' Farewell' is a cracking tune! Yes, history, evolution, and Will Atkinson. His is the 'definitive', most finely wrought version to my ears. Did he come up with it or learn it from someone else? -- References 1. mailto:oatenp...@googlemail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances
Quoting Francis Wood : Another 'traditional' tune, J.L Dunk's Whin Shields on the Wall was unplayable nonsense when given to the NPS in a literate-looking but impossible manuscript. Someone, probably the editor Gilbert Askew has bashed it into the excellent Whinshield's Hornpipe. I think that Francis is being unkind to Mr James Delanoy Dunk. Mr Dunk was heavily involved in the highbrow music scene of London in the early part of the last century. His sister, Susan Spain-Dunk achieved some recognition as a Classical composer. http://landofllostcontent.blogspot.com/2009/09/susan-spain-dunk-note-in-music-student.html James' writings on music theory are widely regarded as incomprehensible but they reveal someone who has thought deeply about the nature of music. Perhaps he has thought too deeply, for that way madness lies! I suspect that Whin Shields on the Wall as submitted was an attempt to make a work which would bring the NSP into the Classical repertoire of the time. I can make no sense of it but then I have no feeling for the works of Schonberg, Stockhausen, Bertwhistle or Cage. I leave such matters to others in the same way as I leave aside recent attempts to take NSP into the world of contemporary classical music. These ventures simply hold no interest for me. The Lass of Falstone is a pretty good tune though. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On 15 Jul 2011, Francis Wood wrote: > there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential connection between > Shield and Morpeth. Shield is buried in Westminster Abbey. Shield did not include the tune in his 1817 book: he did include other tunes he had collected. There is an article written by David Geddes about Shield (in particular the Keel Row variations) in the 1999 NPS magazine. Clough's assignment to Shield is in what I regard as one of the less "reliable" parts of his collection. It is a book comprised of Hill and other hornpipes, again with some misattributions (claiming "The Arethusa" for Hill, for instance). They are also somewhat idiosyncratic versions in some cases. Without strong corroborative evidence, I would not be inclined to use it as a definitive statement of authorship. The Morpeth Rant is listed in Gore's Fiddle Index in a 1790 publication (Anderson), a 1790-1817 (Campbell), 1823 (Nath. Gow), 1790-1805 (Petrie), 1788-1794 (MacDonald - Gow's cellist), and 1798 (two Highand ladies). But these are only published, Scottish, and fiddle sources. What it does indicate is that it was widespread and popular by these dates. So is arguably earlier. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
--- On Fri, 15/7/11, Francis Wood [1]oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote:Matt's question raises the interesting issue of how tunes by known composers become 'traditional tunes' (what does that really mean?) Hello Francis A rather good question. The full title of the 'Folk' degree at Newcastle is 'Folk and Traditional Music'. The distinction is important and I offer the following thoughts. When a piece is composed (often with dots by the composer or transcribed) it would be regarded as an example of Folk. If it then gets taken up by a whole local community and passed on orally it begins its journey into 'The Tradition'. To my way of thinking a composed piece can accomplish this transformation (if enough people take it up and absorb it, individualise it and pass it on) in little more than a generation. The examples you give of The Hesleyside is an excellent example. Versions I heard & played with trad players were always dotted as that's what the local dancers needed. Others prefer the plain version that's fine too. The thing for me is that once you have had dotted versions instilled the plainer ones don't conjure up the images or memories and so the dots don't just add to the tune they are from that standpoint an essential part of their character. The variation in opinion/personal choice is possibly the strongest evidence for the tune having reached traditional status. Warmest & best Anthony -- References 1. http://uk.mc873.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:41, Francis Wood wrote: > Finally, there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential connection > between Shield and Morpeth. . . . .and another odd, inconsequential and irrelevant fact in the present discussion. Shield is buried under the same stone as Salomon who 'brought Haydn to England' as the inscription states: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=95553 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=89571 Shield knew Haydn well and was one of his closest English friends. francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances
Well, this is what Dunk actually wrote, transcribed in abc from the very clear manuscript in the possession of the NPS: X:NPS Collection T:Whin Shields on the Wall C:John L. Dunk Q:1/4=100 M:2/4 L:1/16 K:G z6 d2 |B2G2 G2B2 |A2D2 D2D2 |G2G2 GABc |d3B d2g2 |e2c2 c2e2 |d2G2 G2AB |c2E2 E2FG |ABcd e2fg | decB ABGF |G3E G2B2 |e2B2 B2e2 |d3A d2e2 |a2e2 e2f2 |g3e g2f2 |e2d2 c2B2 |A2d2 d2fd |A2d2 e2fg | a3g gfed |B2G2 GABG |A2D2 D2EF |G2G2 GABc |d6 g2 |e2c2 c2de |d2G2 G2AB |c2B2 A2G2 |dedB GAGE | c3F Fd2G-|G3E G4 |] I'm not convinced that this is anything else other than nonsense. It starts familiarly but then goes completely mad ( a brief allusion to 'Il est né, le Divin Enfant' creeps in) and goes all over the place. I agree, though . . . a very interesting character! > Mr Dunk was heavily involved in the highbrow music scene He may have thought he was, but did the highbrow music scene agree? Francis On 15 Jul 2011, at 11:55, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: > Quoting Francis Wood : > >> Another 'traditional' tune, J.L Dunk's Whin Shields on the Wall was >> unplayable nonsense when given to the NPS in a literate-looking but >> impossible manuscript. Someone, probably the editor Gilbert Askew has bashed >> it into the excellent Whinshield's Hornpipe. >> > > I think that Francis is being unkind to Mr James Delanoy Dunk. Mr Dunk was > heavily involved in the highbrow music scene of London in the early part of > the last century. His sister, Susan Spain-Dunk achieved some recognition as a > Classical composer. > > http://landofllostcontent.blogspot.com/2009/09/susan-spain-dunk-note-in-music-student.html > > James' writings on music theory are widely regarded as incomprehensible but > they reveal someone who has thought deeply about the nature of music. Perhaps > he has thought too deeply, for that way madness lies! > > I suspect that Whin Shields on the Wall as submitted was an attempt to make a > work which would bring the NSP into the Classical repertoire of the time. I > can make no sense of it but then I have no feeling for the works of > Schonberg, Stockhausen, Bertwhistle or Cage. I leave such matters to others > in the same way as I leave aside recent attempts to take NSP into the world > of contemporary classical music. These ventures simply hold no interest for > me. > > The Lass of Falstone is a pretty good tune though. > > Barry > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Impressive, Francis. Now you've even uncovered where Shield has been Haydn for all these years. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Francis Wood <[1]oatenp...@googlemail.com> wrote: On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:41, Francis Wood wrote: > Finally, there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential connection between Shield and Morpeth. . . . .and another odd, inconsequential and irrelevant fact in the present discussion. Shield is buried under the same stone as Salomon who 'brought Haydn to England' as the inscription states: [2]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 95553 [3]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 89571 Shield knew Haydn well and was one of his closest English friends. francis To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=95553 3. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=89571 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Hello Matt Lovely! --- On Fri, 15/7/11, Matt Seattle wrote: From: Matt Seattle Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To: "NSP group" Date: Friday, 15 July, 2011, 12:42 Impressive, Francis. Now you've even uncovered where Shield has been Haydn for all these years. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Francis Wood <[1][1]oatenp...@googlemail.com> wrote: On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:41, Francis Wood wrote: > Finally, there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential connection between Shield and Morpeth. . . . .and another odd, inconsequential and irrelevant fact in the present discussion. Shield is buried under the same stone as Salomon who 'brought Haydn to England' as the inscription states: [2][2]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 95553 [3][3]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 89571 Shield knew Haydn well and was one of his closest English friends. francis To get on or off this list see list information at [4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[5]oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. [6]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=955 53 3. [7]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=895 71 4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 3. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com 6. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=95553 7. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=89571 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Hi, The Arethusa is from a musical farce called "Lock and Key" and in the British Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield Dave S On 7/15/2011 2:21 PM, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Matt Lovely! --- On Fri, 15/7/11, Matt Seattle wrote: From: Matt Seattle Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To: "NSP group" Date: Friday, 15 July, 2011, 12:42 Impressive, Francis. Now you've even uncovered where Shield has been Haydn for all these years. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Francis Wood <[1][1]oatenp...@googlemail.com> wrote: On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:41, Francis Wood wrote: > Finally, there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential connection between Shield and Morpeth. . . . .and another odd, inconsequential and irrelevant fact in the present discussion. Shield is buried under the same stone as Salomon who 'brought Haydn to England' as the inscription states: [2][2]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 95553 [3][3]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 89571 Shield knew Haydn well and was one of his closest English friends. francis To get on or off this list see list information at [4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[5]oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. [6]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=955 53 3. [7]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=895 71 4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 3. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com 6. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=95553 7. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=89571 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On 15 Jul 2011, at 14:48, Dave S wrote: > The Arethusa is from a musical farce called "Lock and Key" and in the British > Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield. Hi Dave, That's interesting! More here: http://www.contemplator.com/sea/arethusa.html Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Hi Francis, yes interesting indeed - the midi sounds like a minor plagiarize from a Purcell air in Dmin -- or bits of downfall of the djinn -- perhaps O'Carolan varied a tune based on Purcell or was it vice-versa -- I looked in Anderson vol 1 for Morpeth rant but could not find it -- does anyone have vol 2 or later with it in ? sods to the music moguls - keep music live Dave On 7/15/2011 3:57 PM, Francis Wood wrote: On 15 Jul 2011, at 14:48, Dave S wrote: The Arethusa is from a musical farce called "Lock and Key" and in the British Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield. Hi Dave, That's interesting! More here: http://www.contemplator.com/sea/arethusa.html Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Piping in Truro cathedral
I've had a request for a piper to lead a procession into Truro cathedral (yes, really, I do know where it is!). On offer is expenses, a "very modest" fee, and accommodation if required. This is an event on Fri July 29, in the evening. (so it's a bit urgent) If anyone would like to take it up, please contact me soonest for details. Thanks Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances
I think being accurate about Dunk is unkind enough to be going on with. The original MS of Whinshields on the Wall looks like a free-form improv, in 19thC style, on vaguely Northumbrian musical ideas. But it's so free-form that it sounds like he was drunk when he wrote it. The Dunks were an artistic family, and the connection is maintained, as Dunk's builder's yard has become Folkestone's arts centre, but his sister had all the musical brains. If the NPS offered a trophy of a silver cup full of beer for anyone playing W on the W verbatim from memory, nobody would ever want to win it. It doesn't work, whether in classical, modern or traditional terms. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of barr...@nspipes.co.uk Sent: 15 July 2011 11:56 To: NSPlist Subject: [NSP] Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances Quoting Francis Wood : > Another 'traditional' tune, J.L Dunk's Whin Shields on the Wall was > unplayable nonsense when given to the NPS in a literate-looking but > impossible manuscript. Someone, probably the editor Gilbert Askew > has bashed it into the excellent Whinshield's Hornpipe. > I think that Francis is being unkind to Mr James Delanoy Dunk. Mr Dunk was heavily involved in the highbrow music scene of London in the early part of the last century. His sister, Susan Spain-Dunk achieved some recognition as a Classical composer. http://landofllostcontent.blogspot.com/2009/09/susan-spain-dunk-note-in-music-student.html James' writings on music theory are widely regarded as incomprehensible but they reveal someone who has thought deeply about the nature of music. Perhaps he has thought too deeply, for that way madness lies! I suspect that Whin Shields on the Wall as submitted was an attempt to make a work which would bring the NSP into the Classical repertoire of the time. I can make no sense of it but then I have no feeling for the works of Schonberg, Stockhausen, Bertwhistle or Cage. I leave such matters to others in the same way as I leave aside recent attempts to take NSP into the world of contemporary classical music. These ventures simply hold no interest for me. The Lass of Falstone is a pretty good tune though. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances
On 15 Jul 2011, at 16:59, Gibbons, John wrote: > But it's so free-form that it sounds like he was drunk when he wrote it. H . . . Dunk and disorderly. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances
from the last couple of mail it's a critiques slam dunk Dave H . . . Dunk and disorderly. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
On 15 Jul 2011, at 12:29, Francis Wood wrote: > . . .and another odd, inconsequential and irrelevant fact in the present > discussion. Shield is buried under the same stone as Salomon who 'brought > Haydn to England' as the inscription states: . . . Even more oddly, inconsequentially and irrelevantly, Salomon's orchestra (which gave the first performances of Haydn's 'London' symphonies) included the cellist, Joseph Reinagle. He was the composer of Hamilton House (NPS Tunebook II). Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] on keilder side
Hello to All, i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of a tune: "On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a happy tune called "da slockit light" do you know the tune? which i can only guess means the turned of light?. What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. Thanks. Mikael. " can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
Hi, It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called "Da Slockit" in the Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP. Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder is a village and a river Dave S On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote: Hello to All, i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of a tune: "On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a happy tune called "da slockit light" do you know the tune? which i can only guess means the turned of light?. What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. Thanks. Mikael. " can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
Da Slockit Light. This is a Shetland tune written by Tom Anderson, who was a towering figure in Shetland fiddling. I understand that it was written following the death of his wife when he felt that the way of life he was familiar with was vanishing. I know little of Shetland, but when I visited the Western Isles I was astonished to see how scattered the cottages were. In English villages, the cottages are generally huddled together and the farming was carried on elsewhere whereas in the Hebrides a village was a sprinkling of cottages over several hillsides. Tom felt that there weren't as many pinpoints of lights showing on the hillside, indicating that the cottages and crofts were being abandoned and the old ways were vanishing. At the time he wrote the tune the area did have an electric supply and I understand that the Shetlanders would say 'Slockit Da Light' for turn off the light. However, the term slockit also, apparently refers to the action of snuffing a candle by licking the forefinger and thumb and pinching the wick. So the title also refers to outside, mainland, influences killing the life of the islands. This is the sum of what I have been told. It is part of the myths which surround tunes. It may be true or it may be false but it's a damn good story and we shouldn't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Does this help? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
Kevin, Tom Anderson, who wrote it, explained in an interview in 1970, printed in his book ''Ringing Strings'' ''I was coming out of Eshaness in late January 1969,the time was after 11pm and as I looked back at the top of the hill leading out of the district I saw so few lights compared to what I had remembered when I was young. As I watched, the lights started going out one by one. That, coupled with the recent death of my late wife, made me think of the old word 'Slockit' meaning, a light that has gone out, and I think that was what inspired the tune.'' John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Dave S [david...@pt.lu] Sent: 15 July 2011 22:27 To: Kevin Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: on keilder side Hi, It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called "Da Slockit" in the Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP. Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder is a village and a river Dave S On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote: > Hello to All, > i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning > of a tune: > "On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a > happy tune called "da slockit light" do you know the tune? > which i can only guess means the turned of light?. > What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. > Thanks. Mikael. " > > can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? > kevin > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11 > >
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
PS - 'Ringing Strings' also contains a lovely set of seconds to this lovely tune. John From: Gibbons, John Sent: 15 July 2011 23:00 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: on keilder side Kevin, Tom Anderson, who wrote it, explained in an interview in 1970, printed in his book ''Ringing Strings'' ''I was coming out of Eshaness in late January 1969,the time was after 11pm and as I looked back at the top of the hill leading out of the district I saw so few lights compared to what I had remembered when I was young. As I watched, the lights started going out one by one. That, coupled with the recent death of my late wife, made me think of the old word 'Slockit' meaning, a light that has gone out, and I think that was what inspired the tune.'' John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Dave S [david...@pt.lu] Sent: 15 July 2011 22:27 To: Kevin Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: on keilder side Hi, It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called "Da Slockit" in the Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP. Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder is a village and a river Dave S On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote: > Hello to All, > i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning > of a tune: > "On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a > happy tune called "da slockit light" do you know the tune? > which i can only guess means the turned of light?. > What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. > Thanks. Mikael. " > > can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? > kevin > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11 > >
