[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
Used occasionally it's not too intrusive. I think the hard line taken by Clough, Adrian and I is really an attempt to reign in some of the worst excesses of open technique. Nicely put, though I enjoy a good choyte now and then. This is probably heresy to some, but I think it's arguable that Clough's was only one possible way of playing and the one most approved of at the time. there may be more. There is a difference between bad and different isn't there? As between wrong and not to my taste or not in my tradition. Django Rheinhardt was a great guitarist but should we proscribe the use of all four fingers? Heifetz and Grappelly were both great but very different violinists and some people can even put up with Joe Venuti (true, he had technique). How's about - to stay within the folk or traditional ambit - the fiddling of, say, Willie Taylor versus say, Martin Hayes? Same instrument, very different way of playing, both valid. What about singing? Does Pavarotti or Tom Waits do it correctly and the other not? Frankly I can't bear to listen to either of them. Give me Harry Cox or Freddy Mercury any day. Er, and Emma Kirkby. They all do it right. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
I'd go along with all of this. Thanks, Richard, for putting it so eloquently. c -Original Message- From: Richard York [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:57 AM To: NSP Mailing List Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please Oh dear - that wasn't what I meant at all! Just an honest appeal for information which seems to be common knowledge to many, but obscure to me, and I gather, others too. Because I don't know who is truly Outside The Pale I might get the wrong idea, and start thinking wrong things about absolute heroes/heroines. I really didn't mean to muddy the water, but I would just be interested to know who is considered a good role model, and, yes, who is considered not so, by those who have a lot more knowledge of the nsp's than I do, so that at least I can make up my own mind. I don't promise to be orthodox, and I reserve the right to my own musical judgement, but it would be useful to know, and might save a lot of time, and perhaps money in buying CD's. I have to admit that when people come up to me at events where I'm working want to know about playing particular early instruments, I have been known to quietly suggest certain outlets which might be better treated with caution, just to save them wasting their money, but I'm not going to stand up shout about it. My off-list reference was to save anyone having to Name Names in public, which would be embarrassing. I hope this isn't offending anyone, or getting into more politics. Music doesn't deserve that. Richard. So a whispering campaign? Is this really a good idea? Francis On 28 Aug 2008, at 10:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One frustration in the choyte debate was the we-all-know-who-we're-talking-about bit - we don't all know, if we're not of the tribe yet. If anyone cares to let me know, on- or off-list, who is Kosher who isn't, it would be most helpful, and I'll listen with interest to the recordings. Include me in copy too pleez. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] re- Not Choyting, Advice please
P.S. and my main request was for technique advice. I'm grateful for the information already coming in - thanks! The bit about Kosher-or-not was really the lesser part of my message. Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
Hi all Chris B wrote:- Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please This is probably heresy to some, but I think it's arguable that Clough's was only one possible way of playing and the one most approved of at the time. there may be more. There is a difference between bad and different isn't there? As between wrong and not to my taste or not in my tradition. I'll add a quote from Martin Carthy Tradition moves, tradition progresses and is not a pile of stones. Yours in blissful choyting. Ian Bartlett P.S. Any luck in defining a folk instrument yet? Very quiet on that front I note. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
Thanks, Colin, for this thoughtful message. I've been playing a lot of different music for long enough to say I agree to just about everything you say here - exactly the considerations I'll be taking on. I've met just the same debate in other traditional music worlds, and feel that indeed the ultimate aim has to be to make the sound which you honestly want to make. It's just nice to have some pointers along the way, if only to help with learning what the rules - quotes on purpose - are, if only so you know what you're breaking later, and have the technique to do it soundly. I'd rather do it that way than flounder around without a proper grounding first, like the Anyone can do Art type of movement. [No I don't want to open that new can of worms here :-)] Long may your effigy be safe! Richard. colin wrote: Richard. First of all you have to make some huge decisions. Which style do you like? Do you want to play traditional competition style or do you want to play all caution to the wind? It's a musical instrument and there are several viewpoints. Think of it as Bob Dylan Syndrome. Those old enough may remember the concerts he did back in the 60's when he did the first half acoustic and the second electric. Many walked out (I stayed, I'd paid!). To the folk purists, it was a betrayal, to others it was exciting and innovative. I depends which camp you are in as to which CDs you buy and how you learn. Of course, the traditional style needs to be mastered first to acquire the skill to take it further otherwise it tends to be bad playing. Even some of the traditional players are now frowned upon. Personally I always liked the playing of Jack Armstrong and Joe Hutton but that's my personal choice as I always preferred the sound and beauty of the tunes rather than the fact that the players fingers can move at the speed of light (am I the only person in the world that likes buttered peas and hates holey halfpenny?). :) That being said, I really liked the playing of Billy Pigg but accepted that he was very much an individual. Just enjoy the pipes and don't get hung up on this debate - much of it is tongue in cheek anyway (I hope). I'll probably be burned in effigy after this post! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Richard York [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP Mailing List nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please Oh dear - that wasn't what I meant at all! Just an honest appeal for information which seems to be common knowledge to many, but obscure to me, and I gather, others too. Because I don't know who is truly Outside The Pale I might get the wrong idea, and start thinking wrong things about absolute heroes/heroines. I really didn't mean to muddy the water, but I would just be interested to know who is considered a good role model, and, yes, who is considered not so, by those who have a lot more knowledge of the nsp's than I do, so that at least I can make up my own mind. I don't promise to be orthodox, and I reserve the right to my own musical judgement, but it would be useful to know, and might save a lot of time, and perhaps money in buying CD's. I have to admit that when people come up to me at events where I'm working want to know about playing particular early instruments, I have been known to quietly suggest certain outlets which might be better treated with caution, just to save them wasting their money, but I'm not going to stand up shout about it. My off-list reference was to save anyone having to Name Names in public, which would be embarrassing. I hope this isn't offending anyone, or getting into more politics. Music doesn't deserve that. Richard. So a whispering campaign? Is this really a good idea? Francis On 28 Aug 2008, at 10:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One frustration in the choyte debate was the we-all-know-who-we're-talking-about bit - we don't all know, if we're not of the tribe yet. If anyone cares to let me know, on- or off-list, who is Kosher who isn't, it would be most helpful, and I'll listen with interest to the recordings. Include me in copy too pleez. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
Of course, the traditional style needs to be mastered first to acquire the skill to take it further otherwise it tends to be bad playing. Indeed. (am I the only person in the world that likes buttered peas and hates holey halfpenny?). :) For listening or playing? And of course you have to shell your peas before you can butter them. in effigy Hope springs eternal ;-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
And me...! Honor Hill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please One frustration in the choyte debate was the we-all-know-who-we're-talking-about bit - we don't all know, if we're not of the tribe yet. If anyone cares to let me know, on- or off-list, who is Kosher who isn't, it would be most helpful, and I'll listen with interest to the recordings. Include me in copy too pleez. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
