[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
It would be too obvious say the same about Border pipes, so I'd better not.. On 1/5/09, Chris Ormston wrote: > I'm told that only recently Tommy Breckons made a similar comment about NSP! > > "I am reminded of a article written by Pat McNulty, the Glasgow based > uilleann piper, reflecting on the first 30 years of Na Piobairi Uilleann > and the great increase in popularity of uilleann pipes in that time. He > concluded a the comment come question "There are far more people with > uilleann pipes that there were thirty years ago, but are there any more > pipers?" > > Ian > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
I'm told that only recently Tommy Breckons made a similar comment about NSP! "I am reminded of a article written by Pat McNulty, the Glasgow based uilleann piper, reflecting on the first 30 years of Na Piobairi Uilleann and the great increase in popularity of uilleann pipes in that time. He concluded a the comment come question "There are far more people with uilleann pipes that there were thirty years ago, but are there any more pipers?" Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: Like Chris, I am concerned at some of the material now being preferred by players. There is a difference between "playing music on the Northumbrian smallpipes" and "Northumbrian piping", and the latter must not get swamped by the former or the tradition will be gone. That said, there is nothing wrong with good music on the Northumbrian smallpipes once in a while, provided it is an informed choice by the individual. My twopennorth Julia I am reminded of a article written by Pat McNulty, the Glasgow based uilleann piper, reflecting on the first 30 years of Na Piobairi Uilleann and the great increase in popularity of uilleann pipes in that time. He concluded a the comment come question "There are far more people with uilleann pipes that there were thirty years ago, but are there any more pipers?" Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
I've never found the verbalisations of rhythms particularly helpful - but that's just me. And I did once know about spondees and trochees (didn't James Thurber illustrate these rather brilliantly?) but it became surplus info many years ago. Faced with a tune that I'm not sure is a rant or reel - either one out of a book, or one of my own - I sandwich it between two tunes of known rhythm that I can play in appropriate style and see how seamlessly they join up. So for example for a rant I might play Cheviot Rant (an archetype if ever there was one, composed in the C20), then tune X, followed by St Cuthbert crossing the Rhine, a modern but very classic rant written by that fine tunesmith, Mr Ormston. I don't use Morpeth Rant (first published around 1780-ish, I believe) since I find that is capable of much wider interpretation. For reels I use the Hesleyside for one. I base the sense of whether the tune is one or the other on my experience of dancing them, and of playing with, or listening to, experts in their various fields. Knowing the tunes and having danced them before playing the pipes apparently puts me in a minority, and at an advantage, I realise that. Like John, I hope we don't get down to standard tunes, though a list of essential tunes for beginners is very useful as a guide, and is the basis of the "First 30 tunes" book which will be coming out shortly. Like Chris, I am concerned at some of the material now being preferred by players. There is a difference between "playing music on the Northumbrian smallpipes" and "Northumbrian piping", and the latter must not get swamped by the former or the tradition will be gone. That said, there is nothing wrong with good music on the Northumbrian smallpipes once in a while, provided it is an informed choice by the individual. My twopennorth Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
I can't think of a single word that will >do but no doubt some one will. Untunable? Unbareable? c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
John, Anthony was describing the dance step, which does sound like tomato soup, BUT, the -to- is a lead in note and the -ma- is the first beat of the bar. Tunes which have "infected" the repertoire include the slow waltzes - Sweet Hesleyside, Rothbury Hills, The Cott etc, (though Winster Gallop's popularity astounds me too)! There weren't many slow tunes in the repertoire before these came along, but there were lots of reels, 3/2s, 6/8s, 9/8s which sound well played with detached fingering. Those tunes were developed alongside the refinement of the instrument by musicians grounded in a regional musical dialect, and therefore show off the pipes at their best. My concern is that these days many pipers don't really understand this, or don't want to understand, and will play anything, so the need for good technique becomes diminished and the tradition ultimately suffers. It's already happening - there are a number of talented youngsters who made a promising start, only to be shepherded towards Celtic music and open fingering. At the recent NPS concert, which must have been the largest ever gathering of NSP players, only the London group showcased the old repertoire. I don't think we'll get stuck with 100 stock tunes, though. Some of us still try to compose in the traditional idiom, including variation sets. As for everyone playing in the same way, I recently pointed out that George Atkinson and Joe Hutton played by the rules, had the same teacher, yet had different styles, so it's not necessary to break the rules in order to get variety. Impolite enough? Chris -Original Message- From: john_da...@hmco.com [mailto:john_da...@hmco.com] Sent: 03 January 2009 20:39 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Rants and reels I enjoyed the most recent NPS Journal very much. There was lots of good stuff there to ponder and incorporate into my playing. Good articles raise more questions, so here are couple that came up for me. Anthony Robb described the rhythm of a rant as "tomato". That enhanced my understanding of the rant rhythm, but I'm still confused. The reel rhythm, I take it, is the common bump-ditty, which of course has subtle variations depending on local tradition. But I hear "tomato" as 6/8, not 2/2 or 4/4. If "bump ditty" is spelled out "strong, weak, strong, medium" in stresses per bar, how is the rant "tomato" rhythm spelled out? Chris Ormston's article was very interesting, but I didn't get the full gist of what he was saying because I think he was being polite. Chris could you spell out in "over seas layman's terms" which tunes have infected the repertoire, and which tunes are basic? I hope traditional NSP playing never reduces it's repertoire to a stock 100 tunes to be played exactly alike by everyone the way Highland piping has, but as an "over seas layman" it would be very interesting to learn what one of the very best NSPipers considers to be the top fifty tunes I should strive to learn, and which tunes I should avoid completely. As a side bar question: I was told recently that "the Mason's Apron" is a Northumbrian tune. It's played all over the British Isles, but I didn't realize it was from Northumberland. Is that true? many thanks, John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
-Original Message- From: rosspi...@aol.com To: john_da...@hmco.com Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:54 Subject: Re: [NSP] Rants and reels Dear John, I am glad you enjoyed reading the Journal which is designed to stimulate thought a wee bit more that the Newsletter. The article which was less than stimulating and in fact quite innaccurate was the one where Sarah Paton commented on the financial running of the NPS and also on 'attitude' at our regular meetings which she has not attended so how could she know as applies to her knowledge of the work of our Treasurer. Anthony tries to make it easy for young people to grasp ideas of rhythm by vocalising them which works most of the time but he got a tomato in the face over the rant rhythm. If I can give the idea of the foot tapping rhythm which is the basis of what you are writing about it can be expressed? in cut common as lead note,?quaver/ crotchet, crotchet,crotchet, quaver? rest,quaver/ crotchet...etc. However the tunes used may not be exactly in that rhythm but would still allow the dancers to tap out the rhythm with their hard shoes. A slowish reel would allow the dancers to tap out the rhythm in certain parts of the dance albeit a bit faster than in a regular rant -Original Message- From: john_da...@hmco.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:38 Subject: [NSP] Rants and reels I enjoyed the most recent NPS Journal very much. There was lots of good stuff there to ponder and incorporate into my playing. Good articles raise more questions, so here are couple that came up for me. Anthony Robb described the rhythm of a rant as "tomato". That enhanced my understanding of the rant rhythm, but I'm still confused. The reel rhythm, I take it, is the common bump-ditty, which of course has subtle variations depending on local tradition. But I hear "tomato" as 6/8, not 2/2 or 4/4. If "bump ditty" is spelled out "strong, weak, strong, medium" in stresses per bar, how is the rant "tomato" rhythm spelled out? Chris Ormston's article was very interesting, but I didn't get the full gist of what he was saying because I think he was being polite. Chris could you spell out in "over seas layman's terms" which tunes have infected the repertoire, and which tunes are basic? I hope traditional NSP playing n! ever reduces it's repertoire to a stock 100 tunes to be played exactly alike by everyone the way Highland piping has, but as an "over seas layman" it would be very interesting to learn what one of the very best NSPipers considers to be the top fifty tunes I should strive to learn, and which tunes I should avoid completely. As a side bar question: I was told recently that "the Mason's Apron" is a Northumbrian tune. It's played all over the British Isles, but I didn't realize it was from Northumberland. Is that true? many thanks, John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
I have always used "Veggies and Chocolate", knowing that anyone in their right mind would ALWAYS put the emphasis on Chocolate over veggies! ;-) Just be sure to pronounce chocolate as a two syllable word. Quoting Matt Seattle : > For the Rant rhythm, how about > Nuts-and-Rais-ins > where the heavier stress is on -Rais- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > Yer pal, John Liestman
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
Exactly. The stress is on the second beat in 'tomato' whichever way it is pronounced which is not incorrect in that respect but it is a long syllable which is incorrect. It is essentially? a short lead in beat followed be three short? beats like quaver, crotchet,crotchet,crotchet, like the first part of 'Oh, can't you dance the polka'. I can't think of a single word that will do but no doubt some one will. Cheers, Colin R -Original Message- From: Matt Seattle <theborderpi...@googlemail.com> To: john_da...@hmco.com CC: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:43 Subject: [NSP] Re: Rants and reels I didn't understand what AR meant with his tomato, either - if he meant un unstressed downbeat (to-) then I'm mystified, as Rants have a stress on the downbeat in my experience. The stress of the word tomato is on the -ma-, whether you say tomaato or tomayto.Mason's Apron is Scottish, the earliest version is called the Islay Reel IIRC.To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
For the Rant rhythm, how about Nuts-and-Rais-ins where the heavier stress is on -Rais- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rants and reels
I didn't understand what AR meant with his tomato, either - if he meant un unstressed downbeat (to-) then I'm mystified, as Rants have a stress on the downbeat in my experience. The stress of the word tomato is on the -ma-, whether you say tomaato or tomayto. Mason's Apron is Scottish, the earliest version is called the Islay Reel IIRC. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
