[NSP] Re: divorce
The oil of the little known Ont Rhubbledwarterz tree may be suggested. Richard By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use? Francis --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9724&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\NetworkService\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
Well said, Dave! and well supported, Chris! I have not yet been bothered to sign up to the new group, though I suppose if I want to keep in touch I will have to sometime. This list has served a very good purpose for a long time, please keep it going and resist exclusive fundamentalism, however well-intentioned that may sometimes be. Philip - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:53 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: divorce -Original Message- From: BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:53 AM To: 'Dave S' Subject: RE: [NSP] divorce Well said, Dave! C -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave S Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:38 AM To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site Subject: [NSP] divorce Hi, It seems as though Inky has his wish. The tradition is now firmly no longer out in the open. This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy fence-sitter to brash young expert) to light conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjects around the wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a good number of years, but I believe the polarisation Inky wrongly thought was necessary to save his ideal methodology (rightly or wrongly) of the ONLY way to play NSP has wrought more damage than can now be imagined. I would liken it to attempting to harmonize the accents used by people in any single country of the world. I find it rather saddening that this has occurred - I will continue to listen and reply to try and keep this list going -- will the rest of you out there do the same ?? Inky has a good heart but perhaps a too impulsive temperament has taken over in this case -- why not teach your method to the masses by force of persuation, Inky, and not by force of typing. Of course there are multiple sides in the recent situation but I hope our love the instrument, it's possibilities and it's beatiful music will eventually prevail over the hot tempered reactions. ciao Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
Thanks Francis, ---
Original Message
Subject: Re: [NSP] divorce
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:16:16 +0200
From: Dave S [1]
To: Francis Wood [2]
Hi Francis,
I concur with all of your points, it's not bad at all that there are now
3 places to pick up info, the sad thing is that there is no
co-ordination or contact between the 3 at this time -- useful info will
only get to a limited audience when it comes out into the open from any
one of the groups.
That is the worst of this difference of opinion, and from memory I can't
think of many reforms forced through by a minority in a democratic way
but Inky is right to question the perhaps limiting behaviour on "The
Nsp is" definition
Julia - can you give us a bit insight into this area --
can't society ask for the opening of a separate class of "allied to NSP"
to allow development -- this would allow shuttle drone blocks (certainly
much easier to travel with and it does not damage so easily) and
sordellinos ( basically an NSP with regulators), but it came from
somewhere else - so ? and what of the phagotum - that would certainly
create interest.
Maybe someone will have ingenuity to build a "boehm keyed" NSP -- but
will it be accepted? - narrow bore piccolo what next, LOL.
Variety is the spice to life - but yes we need tradition but the core
tradition may well benefit from a wider supporting role from acceptable
close to or offshoots of the original type pipes. What was the original
tradition based on anyway ? I am not qualified to even hazard a quess
sso - suffice to say - the 17 key is way away from the original
isn't it -- a keyless chanter -- or are there a variety of traditions ie
no key - 4 key - 5,7,11,13,15,17 18, etc etc and then we have not yet
begun on the drone possibilites.
I think the Lowland and Border society comes closer to harmonizing it's
members by saying "drones in a common stock"
As for oil -- I certainly go for "neck oil" of most varieties, except
flat beer
cheers me dears
Dave S
On 6/16/2011 10:22 AM, Francis Wood wrote:
> Hello Dave and others,
>
> I see things a little differently.
>
> Two things have happened here, the first being a move to have opinions, inform
ation and other resources made permanently available in the form of a forum. Thi
s is currently happening in the NPS Forum and the Traditional NSP Forum establi
shed by Inky-Adrian. The advantage of the forum medium is clear - it provides a
growing archive where threads are easily followed and remain related to their or
iginal header. This is not so with the archived posts of this, or any other lis
t.
>
> The second development is that there are now two separate forums. It might be
argued that it's a pity that the party is going on in two different houses. My o
wn view is that diversity is a good thing. Each forum can learn and develop from
the other. It's also a good demonstration that the often-confused NSP and NPS a
re not in fact the same thing, and that each can exist detached from the other.
>
> I'll continue to follow and enjoy this list, though I treat it very much as a
newspaper, occasionally keeping cuttings but treating the rest as daily ephemera
. As a repository of useful fact and opinion, it doesn't really work.
>
> By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use
?
>
> Francis
>
>
> On 16 Jun 2011, at 08:38, Dave S wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> It seems as though Inky has his wish. The tradition is now firmly no longer o
ut in the open.
>> This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy fence-sitter to
brash young expert) to light conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjec
ts around the wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a
good number of years, but I believe the polarisation Inky wrongly thought was n
ecessary to save his ideal methodology (rightly or wrongly) of the ONLY way to p
lay NSP has wrought more damage than can now be imagined.
>> I would liken it to attempting to harmonize the accents used by people in an
y single country of the world.
>> I find it rather saddening that this has occurred - I will continue to listen
and reply to try and keep this list going -- will the rest of you out there do
the same ??
>>
>> Inky has a good heart but perhaps a too impulsive temperament has taken over
in this case -- why not teach your method to the masses by force of persuation,
Inky, and not by force of typing.
>> Of course there are multiple sides in the recent situation but I hope our lov
e the instrument, it's possibilities and it's beatiful music will eventually pre
vail over the hot tempered reactions.
>>
>> ciao
>>
>> Dave S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - [4]www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3705 - Release Date: 06/15/11
>
>
>
--
References
[NSP] Re: divorce
Hi Reid - An aside here - every posting of this list has [NSP] in the Subject: line, and most mail readers will let you filter these messages into a special mailbox, which you can read when you want. Of course most mail readers do this in different ways, so you will have the challenge of finding out how to do it yourself! Wayne On Jun 16, 2011, at 8:25 AM, Reid Bishop wrote: > > Having said that, I do often get frustrated with the huge blocks of emails > that hit my inbox. I am considering making a devoted gmail account for this > forum alone for that reason. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
On 16/06/2011 09:55, Alan Corkett wrote: Dear All "Hear, Hear!" Julia! Alan Corkett I have to confess to being an outsider wherever I am. Being in Liverpool, I'm well outside the regular piping fraternity of the North East plus, despite having been a piper for 38 years I'm not very good and, with age, have actually got worse. That being said, I've enjoyed the banter and the technical stuff I have learned here and I've been able to offer some advice from problems I have had and solved (usually) over the years or from advice given here and lost in the mist of time. To be honest (I can see the bundles of faggots being laid by the stake now) I'm rather appreciative of the scope of the instrument as well as the "tradition". I'm in a cleft stick. I'm happy playing "Yo Ho a Pirates life for me" or "It's a small world" from Disneyland as I am playing from the NPS Tunebooks. After more years than I care to remember on the folk scene where clubs would bar you if you sang anything later than the 1800's or refuse you entry if you had a (shudder) guitar or other musical instrument with you, I've been through it all before - including the ones that said it was "folk" if you didn't have electric instruments! It's not that I'm not interested in the tradition - I am - but wouldn't want to follow that to the exclusion of all else. I'm playing because I love the pipes and their sound. If I were in a competition (sorry, flight of fancy there) I would be happy to follow the rules and I'm quite happy to follow the "correct" way of playing but as none of us know what that is as we were not around at the time to hear it I do have to presume that it's a later view that became "that's nice, let's do it that way" scenario. Personally I'd rather follow a more open forum (and have a nice shout at the computer when something controversial turns up). I'm happy to be a part of a more "selective" group but I'd still follow the other. It's probably because I don't have the skill or expertise to play Clough style that I'd be out on a limb in such a forum. I'm buggered if I'll stop playing as best I can though. Unfortunately I can't find any of the other, alternative forums but I will mourn the loss of the experienced players and, I fear, it could lead to that style of playing becoming a niche minority which would leave newer players "doing their own thing" if they don't live near to other players. That's not good for piping. I do hope that the players who have migrated will still use this forum and reserve the new ones for the high level stuff (pun intended) where they may be at a similar standard (like an advanced level). I'm sure everything will level out eventually. There's room for all in our world. Colin Hill (typed far too much, sorry). - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3706 - Release Date: 06/15/11 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
What follows is testimonial. The forum certainly has value in my book. It was through this forum and the NPS that I found the encouragement and advice necessary to start playing the NSP. In Mississippi, USA no less. It is also how I found my set which arrived from Italy. Talk about globalization! I am surrounded by a small but devoted band of Celtic (mostly Irish) trad musicians and none of us had even really heard of NSP or were familiar were the musical traditions surrounding the instrument. We are admittedly pretty disconnected as we are in the deep south of the US. But we are a well traveled group for the most part. Here Old Time trad, Delta Blues and Irish music are king but the genetic lineage of early folk here is from the border region of England/Scotland. David Hackett Fisher's book "Albion's Seed" provides a nice discussion of the settlement of the south by border folk. I grew up playing old time fiddle band music which was certainly not overtly Irish influenced until only very recently. But Irish music has become the international representative of music from the British Isles (no offense intended). It is nice to be exposed to the other even older living traditions. Since I started playing NSP through this forum I have discovered a world of tradi! tional music that is in fact related to the music I grew up playing. It is nice to know that the majority of the old time fiddle tunes I know are actually rants! Forums like this one serve societies like the NPS whose mission it is to preserve traditions through shared discussions and meetings. It may not be the exact best place to build a "how to" guide for all things NSP but it is the best place to discuss and promote the living tradition. It seems to be effective doing that. Promotion might mean promoting other websites maybe. The NPS forum is not in competition with other sites from my perspective. It seems to be helping to bring them into existence. Congratulations then on a job well done! Having said that, I do often get frustrated with the huge blocks of emails that hit my inbox. I am considering making a devoted gmail account for this forum alone for that reason. I think it is worth the effort for everyone's personal interests even to keep this forum going. Maybe I don't understand the real purpose of the list but it is a great place for people to promote other discussions and events etc. They just don't need to be hostile about it maybe. Reid On Jun 16, 2011, at 3:55 AM, "Alan Corkett" wrote: > Dear All > "Hear, Hear!" Julia! > Alan Corkett > > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]On > Behalf Of Julia Say > Sent: 16 June 2011 09:43 > To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site; Dave S > Subject: [NSP] Re: divorce > > > > On 16 Jun 2011, Dave S wrote: > >> This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy >> fence-sitter to brash young expert) to light >> conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjects around the >> wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a good >> number of years, > > I think it will continue to do that. I have noticed over many years that > after > any..er...altercation, the list goes very quiet for a while as we all tiptoe > away > and let things calm down. (Well OK most of us. I'm sure the early archives > would > show me doing regular foot in mouth exercises before I learnt to shut up > occasionally). > > I expect the same to happen again this time. > > And like Francis, I think the lists and the various forums and groups are > complementary. It's a shame that there have to be so many as it's > time-consuming to > check them all, but on balance I think that over the years they have helped > a lot > of people to a greater understanding of the piping world and introduced a > lot of > people to our instrument. > > Julia > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > >
[NSP] Re: divorce
Dear All "Hear, Hear!" Julia! Alan Corkett -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]On Behalf Of Julia Say Sent: 16 June 2011 09:43 To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site; Dave S Subject: [NSP] Re: divorce On 16 Jun 2011, Dave S wrote: > This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy > fence-sitter to brash young expert) to light > conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjects around the > wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a good > number of years, I think it will continue to do that. I have noticed over many years that after any..er...altercation, the list goes very quiet for a while as we all tiptoe away and let things calm down. (Well OK most of us. I'm sure the early archives would show me doing regular foot in mouth exercises before I learnt to shut up occasionally). I expect the same to happen again this time. And like Francis, I think the lists and the various forums and groups are complementary. It's a shame that there have to be so many as it's time-consuming to check them all, but on balance I think that over the years they have helped a lot of people to a greater understanding of the piping world and introduced a lot of people to our instrument. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
On 16 Jun 2011, Dave S wrote: > This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy > fence-sitter to brash young expert) to light > conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjects around the > wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a good > number of years, I think it will continue to do that. I have noticed over many years that after any..er...altercation, the list goes very quiet for a while as we all tiptoe away and let things calm down. (Well OK most of us. I'm sure the early archives would show me doing regular foot in mouth exercises before I learnt to shut up occasionally). I expect the same to happen again this time. And like Francis, I think the lists and the various forums and groups are complementary. It's a shame that there have to be so many as it's time-consuming to check them all, but on balance I think that over the years they have helped a lot of people to a greater understanding of the piping world and introduced a lot of people to our instrument. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
On 16 Jun 2011, Francis Wood wrote: > By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to > use? Definitely. The sort appropriate for pouring on troubled waters! JUlia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
Hello Dave and others, I see things a little differently. Two things have happened here, the first being a move to have opinions, information and other resources made permanently available in the form of a forum. This is currently happening in the NPS Forum and the Traditional NSP Forum established by Inky-Adrian. The advantage of the forum medium is clear - it provides a growing archive where threads are easily followed and remain related to their original header. This is not so with the archived posts of this, or any other list. The second development is that there are now two separate forums. It might be argued that it's a pity that the party is going on in two different houses. My own view is that diversity is a good thing. Each forum can learn and develop from the other. It's also a good demonstration that the often-confused NSP and NPS are not in fact the same thing, and that each can exist detached from the other. I'll continue to follow and enjoy this list, though I treat it very much as a newspaper, occasionally keeping cuttings but treating the rest as daily ephemera. As a repository of useful fact and opinion, it doesn't really work. By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use? Francis On 16 Jun 2011, at 08:38, Dave S wrote: > Hi, > It seems as though Inky has his wish. The tradition is now firmly no longer > out in the open. > This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy fence-sitter to > brash young expert) to light conversation/disagreement/proposition on all > subjects around the wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this > well for a good number of years, but I believe the polarisation Inky wrongly > thought was necessary to save his ideal methodology (rightly or wrongly) of > the ONLY way to play NSP has wrought more damage than can now be imagined. > I would liken it to attempting to harmonize the accents used by people in > any single country of the world. > I find it rather saddening that this has occurred - I will continue to listen > and reply to try and keep this list going -- will the rest of you out there > do the same ?? > > Inky has a good heart but perhaps a too impulsive temperament has taken over > in this case -- why not teach your method to the masses by force of > persuation, Inky, and not by force of typing. > Of course there are multiple sides in the recent situation but I hope our > love the instrument, it's possibilities and it's beatiful music will > eventually prevail over the hot tempered reactions. > > ciao > > Dave S > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
>-Original Message- >From: BIRCH Christopher (DGT) >Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:53 AM >To: 'Dave S' >Subject: RE: [NSP] divorce > >Well said, Dave! >C >>-Original Message- >>From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave S >>Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:38 AM >>To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site >>Subject: [NSP] divorce >> >>Hi, >>It seems as though Inky has his wish. The tradition is now firmly no >>longer out in the open. >>This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy >>fence-sitter to brash young expert) to light >>conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjects around the >>wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well >>for a good >>number of years, but I believe the polarisation Inky wrongly >>thought was >>necessary to save his ideal methodology (rightly or wrongly) >>of the ONLY >>way to play NSP has wrought more damage than can now be imagined. >>I would liken it to attempting to harmonize the accents used >>by people >>in any single country of the world. >>I find it rather saddening that this has occurred - I will >continue to >>listen and reply to try and keep this list going -- will the >>rest of you >>out there do the same ?? >> >>Inky has a good heart but perhaps a too impulsive temperament >>has taken >>over in this case -- why not teach your method to the masses >>by force of >>persuation, Inky, and not by force of typing. >>Of course there are multiple sides in the recent situation but I hope >>our love the instrument, it's possibilities and it's beatiful >>music will >>eventually prevail over the hot tempered reactions. >> >>ciao >> >>Dave S >> >> >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>
