Re: [NTG-context] right and left arrowfill

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 01:38:23PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 6/23/2023 12:43 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 03:32:25PM +0200, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context 
> > wrote:
> > > \starttext
> > > x \rightarrowfill x
> > > 
> > > x \leftarrowfill x
> > > 
> > > hbox to 5cm:
> > > 
> > > y\hbox to5cm{\rightarrowfill}y
> > > 
> > > y\hbox to5cm{\leftarrowfill}y
> > > \stoptext
> > > 
> > > But obviously not in an dimensioned \hbox, whereas Knuth's version does 
> > > that too.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > On 22 Jun 2023, at 15:11, Hans Hagen via ntg-context 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > x \rightarrowfill x
> > > > 
> > > > x \leftarrowfill x
> > > 
> > > yours sincerely
> > > dr. Hans van der Meer
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > I find this interesting. I agree with Hans vdM.
> > 
> > So what would be the acceptable standard given an x length of a glue?
> > 
> > In the above examples, it's all preset.
> > 
> > Is a rule of thumb — no pun intended here — to apply thereafter
> > a glue, in this case a \vrule that follows the box and precedes the
> > other glue? that is, the \rightarrowfill or \leftarrowfill?
> > 
> > I mean. Once you get the glues messed up, the whole box crumbles.
> 
> I'm not sure how you can mess up glue so that the box is no longer a box.
> Boxes remain boxes.

I guess that's the same mentality behind a fixed glue in LMTX, while
trying not to mess up the box. Back to point A and the main reason of the
op's question. 

Then again, the only way to resemble what TeX does is by re/defining
and copied verbatim from The TeXbook  both rightarrowfill and
leftarrowfill

and unlike with TeX in which an 

\hbox to 1in{\vrule \rightarrowfill \ 1cm \leftarrowfill\vrule} 

it says 1cm but it'd be more than that, and accurately so 


> 
> > How good would \meaning be here, notwithstanding the valuable info of
> > the macro it provides, if it can't print out, let alone source it up,
> > the more accurate dimension, let alone the measurement.
> 
> I don't follow. Does this come from ChapGPT?
> 

That's funny. 

But as chatgpt says:
"Sorry about that. \meaning\rightarrowfill is 
\begingroup \scratchunicode 8594\relax \adaptivebox [mathfiller][alterna­
tive=8594]{\hss \strut \hss }\endgroup "

That's what lmtx returned after Hans vdM sample


> > So, one would need to know the preset layout of the page to have an idea
> > about it?
> > 
> > Hans H. pulled the old modified trick of 'works here'.
> 
> Well, when used in a paragraph it works indeed. No trick involved. But as it
> uses a specific mechanism in an hbox you need to trigger that (unless you
> want to add overhead that will kake tex crawl).
> 
> > Like a magician… now all of a sudden evetything works, but unlike TeX's
> 
> Not sure what this refers to. Much of TeX is magick but what is bad about
> that?
> 
> > \hbox to 1in{\vrule \rightarrowfill \ 1in \leftarrowfill\vrule}
> > 
> > or
> > 
> > \hbox to 1cm{\vrule \rightarrowfill \ 1cm \leftarrowfill\vrule}
> > 
> > which gives an accurate description, not to mention measurement,
> 
> It depends on what you expect. First of all, your assumption that the arrow
> fill is the same as in plain tex is wrong.

Why would it be wrong? 

When I type 

\hbox to 3cm{\rightarrowfill} without a vrule

that's what I would normally expect


> 
> (1) one can define an arrow fill using a leader that uses some (happen to be
> present in tex math fonts) glyphs: repeated minuses followed by some magic
> kern and an arrow head.
> 

Can you apply it to pagination without breaking? 

Highly doubt it.


> (2) You can hope that the magick kern is right and that the minus aligns
> with the arrows bar.
> 
> (3) You also assume that the math font matches the text font.
> 
> (4) Normally an arrow fill is something math anyway. Where there can also be
> something on top or below, or where it can be a top or bottom accent.
> 
> > a
> > 
> > \vbox to 5pt{x\vrule\rightarrowfill \ x \leftarrowfill\vrule\ x}
> > 
> > or
> > 
> > x \rightarrowfill x
> > x \leftarrowfill x
> > 
> > or
> > 
> > \vbox to 3pt{x\vrule\rightarrowfill \  \leftarrowfill\vrule\ x}
> > 
> > \ \rightarrowfill \
> > \ \leftarrowfill \
> > 
> > 
> > in LMTX doesn't say much
> What should it say? You get a space, an arrow and a disc

Re: [NTG-context] right and left arrowfill

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 03:32:25PM +0200, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context 
wrote:
> \starttext
>x \rightarrowfill x
> 
>x \leftarrowfill x
> 
> hbox to 5cm:
> 
>y\hbox to5cm{\rightarrowfill}y
> 
>y\hbox to5cm{\leftarrowfill}y
> \stoptext
> 
> But obviously not in an dimensioned \hbox, whereas Knuth's version does that 
> too.
> 
> 
> 
> > On 22 Jun 2023, at 15:11, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  
> > wrote:
> > 
> >x \rightarrowfill x
> > 
> >x \leftarrowfill x
> 
> yours sincerely
> dr. Hans van der Meer
> 
> 

I find this interesting. I agree with Hans vdM.

So what would be the acceptable standard given an x length of a glue? 

In the above examples, it's all preset.

Is a rule of thumb — no pun intended here — to apply thereafter
a glue, in this case a \vrule that follows the box and precedes the
other glue? that is, the \rightarrowfill or \leftarrowfill?

I mean. Once you get the glues messed up, the whole box crumbles. 

How good would \meaning be here, notwithstanding the valuable info of
the macro it provides, if it can't print out, let alone source it up,
the more accurate dimension, let alone the measurement.

So, one would need to know the preset layout of the page to have an idea
about it? 

Hans H. pulled the old modified trick of 'works here'. 

Like a magician… now all of a sudden evetything works, but unlike TeX's

\hbox to 1in{\vrule \rightarrowfill \ 1in \leftarrowfill\vrule} 

or

\hbox to 1cm{\vrule \rightarrowfill \ 1cm \leftarrowfill\vrule} 

which gives an accurate description, not to mention measurement, 

a 

\vbox to 5pt{x\vrule\rightarrowfill \ x \leftarrowfill\vrule\ x}

or 

x \rightarrowfill x
x \leftarrowfill x 

or

\vbox to 3pt{x\vrule\rightarrowfill \  \leftarrowfill\vrule\ x}

\ \rightarrowfill \ 
\ \leftarrowfill \ 


in LMTX doesn't say much 

-- 
C for yourself.

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Re: [NTG-context] Off topic: Does a 'free for commercial use' flared-sans font exist in the world?

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 06:53:06PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:

> On 6/17/2023 2:06 AM, linguafalsa--- via ntg-context wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 06:35:49PM +0200, Gerben Wierda via ntg-context 
> > wrote:
> > > I know this is off topic, but I suspect this community is actually one of 
> > > the best places to find an answer.
> > > 
> > 
> > It is the best community. And I tell you what.
> > 
> > What happened is that all TeX engines have neglected fonts from the 
> > beginning.
> 
> Really? When tex showed up digital font technology was pretty much in flux.
> And, with metafont being part of the tex ecosystem, one can argue that tex
> was quite innovative too.

Ecosystem. I would be very careful by including an ecosystem there.
Yes. Yes. The TeX ecosystem is obviously part of TeX but is not part
of the ecosystem of fonts either. And what is done on ecosystems
can either benefit or affect ecosystems greatly. And it's a known
trait that humans have been known for having more of a flock group
mentality for no apparent rationally-based reasons than just being
themselves making  these decisions/following instincts or whatever
and not because of a particular ecosystem, or for the benefit of the latter.

And the above does not imply, bear with me here, that metafont was
not innovative, but it can be argued that without TeX there is no
metafont, so no room is left for errors either. So, yes, it must be
innovative. It has to be.

> 
> Potscript and its fonts came aroudn at the same time and were rather closed
> technologies. But as soon possible backend drivers (also part of the tex
> ecosystem) kicked in.
> 
> Then we got virtual fonts which enhanced tex's capabilities.
> 
> > > I really like Optima, and what I really like about it is the 'flared 
> > > style'.
> > > 
> > > But I would like to move to a flared-sans font that gives me more 
> > > licensing freedom. I haven't been able to find one after extensive 
> > > searching. The only one who were reasonably priced (not free) were the 
> > > URW Classico ones in Adobe Creative Cloud, but those can only be used in 
> > > Adobe programs like InDesign (and not TeX).
> > > 
> > 
> > Licensing freedom is an oxymoron. There's no freedom in licensing.
> > Only greed.
> > 
> > The only extension engine that at one point had a plan in mind,
> > or most of the bases covered in this regard was Omega.
> 
> One needs morr than plans. Afaik omega was more about input processing and
> th efont part was mostly going beyond 8 bit fonts but i might have missed
> something (omega was never productin ready).


Notwithstanding the intricacies/details of what may have actually
happened with its short lifespan I think it's more than clear the lack
of support behind it. I'm not going to delve into what exactly caused
its demise or if it was simply the after effect of other projects
that contributed to it. It's irrelevant.

But stand by for a second. I look forward to your quick witted answers. But 
hear me
out

Suppose that on my prior message I was referring indeed to 'mkii' and
not to 'omega' 

And also suppose for a second that the term 'omega' is to be replaced
with 'mkii' on your reply accordingly 

After careful observation the resemblance is quite possibly identical,
isn't it? and it could also inarguably apply to the circumstances as
well. Don't you think?

I mean, it's like comparing oranges with apples, and mkii with mkiv and
mkvi and so forth 

If you were to tell me then, that mkii for instance was not aimed
as an input processing I can almos assure its falsiliability is written
all over, even before the sentence is processed and thought out loud
by you.

Bottom line is that the production-ready part is an obvious byproduct
of its short lifespan, but one cannot be making the claim (false as
would have been seen later, because omega carbon footprint lasted more
on books than on shelves really, not for selling out fast but rather
discontinued quickly) and that its goal was solely within this input
processing spectrum. Because it wasn't.

Or heck

or heck. Let's go even further. By making the dubious assertion
that we've been built with noses to hold our eyeglasses lest these
eyeglasses fall off while reading, or that we've been built with ears
to hold pencils and pens in the ears while thinking and writing.

For crying out loud. 

> 
> It is xetex that hooked into opentype although pdftex can actually deal with
> truetype fonts to some extend. Before there was something 'opentype' we had
> two competing but similar technologies. And it took a while before it was
> even clear how to interpre the specification (also think about reverse
> engeneering fonts and heuristics and ... bugs or features ...). TeX was
> always pretty fast in picking up new stuff (maybe users less so).
> 
> > When it came to commercial fonts the plan of action ahead was by
> > including PFC data on these very same commercial fonts that would
> > benefit primarily its opentype 

Re: [NTG-context] TiKz with LMTX

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Thu, Jun 08, 2023 at 11:57:36PM -0400, Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2023, Jigé via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> >  Thanks a lot Aditya.
> > 
> > The very simple TikZ example with the cross works.
> > The more complex example with the trigonometric circle from the pgf manual,
> > quoted in https://wiki.contextgarden.net/TikZ , does not compile
> > unless you also comment out
> >  or find(n,"pdftex")
> > in line 181 of the mtx-install-modules.lua file
> > before doing mtxrun --script install-modules --install tikz
> > but I could guess that from a:
> >  Driver file ``pgfsys-pdftex.def'' not found..
> > message
> 
> Ah so tikz uses both drivers. 
> 
> @Hans, so the validate function should be:
> 
> local function validate(n)
> return not (
>find(n,"latex")

what's the point of latex there? 

>  -- or find(n,"lualatex")

or for that matter this one lualatex too 

> or find(n,"plain")
> or find(n,"optex")
>  -- or find(n,"luatex")
>  -- or find(n,"pdftex")
> )
> end
> 
> 
> Aditya

Through rsync only and by default without mtx-install-modules script,
obviously, it'll simply fall back loading by pgfsys-pdftex

so you'd be better off by just having 

local function validate(n)
return not (
   find(n,"latex")
or find(n,"lualatex")
or find(n,"plain")
or find(n,"optex")
--  or find(n,"luatex")
or find(n,"pdftex")
)
end

instead.  

Also, forget about the curl --ssl or whatever you mentioned earlier.


> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
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> ___


-- 
Brian Kernighan has an automobile which he helped design.
Unlike most automobiles, it has neither speedometer, nor gas gauge, nor
any of the numerous idiot lights which plague the modern driver.
Rather, if the driver makes any mistake, a giant "?" lights up in the
center of the dashboard.  "The experienced driver", he says, "will
usually know what's wrong."

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[NTG-context] And the nominees for best Motion Picture of the year are…

[Carlos via ntg-context]

And the nominees for best Motion Picture of the year are

«Chatgpt and me»

set in the 20's, A professor reckons with life and love of computers
using chatgpt software with TeX. Embarking on a journey, he becomes
obsessed like no other. Directed by Alan Braslau

and 

«Remembrances in the path»

Set in the wake of advanced technologies, a dedicated
 user experiments with a TeX based software called ConTeXt embedded in
a customized Time Machine. Directed by Jigé 

and the Award goes to...



-- 
X windows:
Something you can be ashamed of.
30% more entropy than the leading window system.
The first fully modular software disaster.
Rome was destroyed in a day.
Warn your friends about it.
Climbing to new depths.  Sinking to new heights.
An accident that couldn't wait to happen.
Don't wait for the movie.
Never use it after a big meal.
Need we say less?
Plumbing the depths of human incompetence.
It'll make your day.
Don't get frustrated without it.
Power tools for power losers.
A software disaster of Biblical proportions.
Never had it.  Never will.
The software with no visible means of support.
More than just a generation behind.

Hindenburg.  Titanic.  Edsel.
X windows.

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Re: [NTG-context] TiKz with LMTX

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 03:43:59PM -0400, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 03:06:10PM +0200, Floris van Manen via ntg-context 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On 05/06/2023 14:49, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > > %# Synchronize all modules from ConTeXt Garden in the 'modules' 
> > > directory, which is created if it doesn’t exist.
> > > to wherever the modules are
> > 
> > 
> > isn't the command
> > 
> > mtxrun --script install-modules --install tikz
> > 
> > or
> > 
> > mtxrun --script install-modules --install --all
> > 
> > doing exactly that?
> > 
> 
> Okay Floris. I see Aditya nearby. He'll take over from now on :) stand
> by please. I know you didn't ask the original question but this is over
> the pgfsys-pdftex and the pgfsys-luatex. It's a race between them !!
> sort of
> 
> The solutions are a few if any really, either as I suggested first and update
> afterwards or install tikz 
> 
> if the driver is the problem, what does common sense tells you Floris?
> the database needs to be updated, correct? The driver needs to be
> loaded somehow, right? 
> 
> 
> system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2023.06.04 18:58 LMTX  fmt: 2023.6.5  int: 
> english/english
> 
> So install tikz. then run the file 
> 
> mtx-install-modules | from 
> 'https://mirrors.ctan.org/install/graphics/pgf/base/pgf.tds.zip'
> mtx-install-modules | into 'texmf-modules'
>   64 files of  642 done,2108636 bytes, 0.015 seconds
>  128 files of  642 done,   13693106 bytes, 0.089 seconds
>  194 files of  642 done,   15194110 bytes, 0.100 seconds
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>  642 files of  642 done,   18864376 bytes, 0.142 seconds
> mtx-install-modules | from 
> 'https://mirrors.ctan.org/install/graphics/pgf/contrib/pgfplots.tds.zip'
> mtx-install-modules | into 'texmf-modules'
>   29 files of  168 done,  69116 bytes, 0.002 seconds
>   48 files of  168 done,1596420 bytes, 0.010 seconds
>   67 files of  168 done,1889062 bytes, 0.012 seconds
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>  148 files of  168 done,4163894 bytes, 0.029 seconds
>  168 files of  168 done,4195360 bytes, 0.029 seconds
> mtx-install-modules | from 
> 'https://mirrors.ctan.org/install/graphics/pgf/contrib/circuitikz.tds.zip'
> mtx-install-modules | into 'texmf-modules'
>7 files of   70 done,  14967 bytes, 0.000 seconds
>   21 files of   70 done,  61604 bytes, 0.001 seconds
>   28 files of   70 done,4839027 bytes, 0.033 seconds
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>   42 files of   70 done,6399050 bytes, 0.043 seconds
>   70 files of   70 done,6879048 bytes, 0.045 seconds
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 17 files in 'tex/context/third/pgf/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/third/pgf/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/third/pgf/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/context/pgf/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/pgf/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/pgf/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'scripts/pgf/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 2 files in 'tex/context/third/pgfplots/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 3 files in 'doc/context/third/pgfplots/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 1 files in 'source/context/third/pgfplots/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/context/pgfplots/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/pgfplots/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/pgfplots/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 4 files in 'scripts/pgfplots/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 8 files in 'tex/context/third/circuitikz/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 2 files in 'doc/context/third/circuitikz/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/third/circuitikz/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/context/circuitikz/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/circuitikz/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/circuitikz/**'
> mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'scripts/circuitikz/**'
> mtx-install-modul

Re: [NTG-context] TiKz with LMTX

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 03:06:10PM +0200, Floris van Manen via ntg-context 
wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/06/2023 14:49, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > %# Synchronize all modules from ConTeXt Garden in the 'modules' directory, 
> > which is created if it doesn’t exist.
> > to wherever the modules are
> 
> 
> isn't the command
> 
> mtxrun --script install-modules --install tikz
> 
> or
> 
> mtxrun --script install-modules --install --all
> 
> doing exactly that?
> 

Okay Floris. I see Aditya nearby. He'll take over from now on :) stand
by please. I know you didn't ask the original question but this is over
the pgfsys-pdftex and the pgfsys-luatex. It's a race between them !!
sort of

The solutions are a few if any really, either as I suggested first and update
afterwards or install tikz 

if the driver is the problem, what does common sense tells you Floris?
the database needs to be updated, correct? The driver needs to be
loaded somehow, right? 


system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2023.06.04 18:58 LMTX  fmt: 2023.6.5  int: 
english/english

So install tikz. then run the file 

mtx-install-modules | from 
'https://mirrors.ctan.org/install/graphics/pgf/base/pgf.tds.zip'
mtx-install-modules | into 'texmf-modules'
  64 files of  642 done,2108636 bytes, 0.015 seconds
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 638 files of  642 done,   18860083 bytes, 0.142 seconds
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mtx-install-modules | from 
'https://mirrors.ctan.org/install/graphics/pgf/contrib/pgfplots.tds.zip'
mtx-install-modules | into 'texmf-modules'
  29 files of  168 done,  69116 bytes, 0.002 seconds
  48 files of  168 done,1596420 bytes, 0.010 seconds
  67 files of  168 done,1889062 bytes, 0.012 seconds
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 132 files of  168 done,4035279 bytes, 0.027 seconds
 148 files of  168 done,4163894 bytes, 0.029 seconds
 168 files of  168 done,4195360 bytes, 0.029 seconds
mtx-install-modules | from 
'https://mirrors.ctan.org/install/graphics/pgf/contrib/circuitikz.tds.zip'
mtx-install-modules | into 'texmf-modules'
   7 files of   70 done,  14967 bytes, 0.000 seconds
  21 files of   70 done,  61604 bytes, 0.001 seconds
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  70 files of   70 done,6879048 bytes, 0.045 seconds
mtx-install-modules | wiping 17 files in 'tex/context/third/pgf/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/third/pgf/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/third/pgf/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/context/pgf/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/pgf/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/pgf/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'scripts/pgf/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 2 files in 'tex/context/third/pgfplots/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 3 files in 'doc/context/third/pgfplots/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 1 files in 'source/context/third/pgfplots/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/context/pgfplots/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/pgfplots/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/pgfplots/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 4 files in 'scripts/pgfplots/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 8 files in 'tex/context/third/circuitikz/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 2 files in 'doc/context/third/circuitikz/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/third/circuitikz/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/context/circuitikz/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/context/circuitikz/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/context/circuitikz/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'scripts/circuitikz/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/latex/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'tex/plain/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/latex/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'doc/plain/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 148 files in 'doc/generic/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/latex/**'
mtx-install-modules | wiping 0 files in 'source/plain/**'
mtx-install-modules |
mtx-install-modules | renewing file database

mtx-install-modules |
mtx-install-modules | installed: tikz
mtx-install-modules |


system  > b

Re: [NTG-context] knuth

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 04:50:53PM +0200, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 at 15:18, Alan Braslau via ntg-context <
> ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 04/06/23 04/06/23, 15:57, Berend de Boer via ntg-context wrote:
> > >> Probably some on this list already checked how well chatgpt answers
> > >> questions about domains one knows well and then probably noted that in
> > >> spite of impressive wording, one can run into quite incorrect answers.
> > >
> > > I've been using it for ConTeXt, and to be honest, it works amazingly
> > > well. It hallucinates sometimes, but it's such a time saver.
> >
> > Maybe someone should try asking it to write documentation/manuals?
> >
> > As a teacher, we are accustomed to seeing Google/Wikipedia/etc.
> > cut-and-paste nonsense; now, this nonsense appears more polished, and
> > our students are none the wiser. Saves them time, too! ;-)
> >
> > Who said: "the best way to economize thought is not to think at all"?
> >
> 
> 
> not all is bad: sometimes a textual description can replace a formalized
> notation, e.g.
> https://fosstodon.org/@t...@mathstodon.xyz/110250604086213386
> I can imagine similar examples with tables.
> Of course a very high level text is often ambiguous (as some kind of
> formalized grammars, after all)
> but  the example shows that in these cases  it is better to fix something
> already almost ok than  to typeset it from scratch.
> 
> --
> luigi

Not all is bad, no, except the company behind chatgpt  ought to pay its
users for feeding more data into it. It's a westernized company after
all. Lots of baggage. I'm surprised it hasn't applied for a patent yet
really.


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-- 
You know you've been spending too much time on the computer when your
friend misdates a check, and you suggest adding a "++" to fix it.

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Re: [NTG-context] knuth

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 03:09:02PM +0200, Alan Braslau via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> On 04/06/23 04/06/23, 15:57, Berend de Boer via ntg-context wrote:
> > > Probably some on this list already checked how well chatgpt answers
> > > questions about domains one knows well and then probably noted that in
> > > spite of impressive wording, one can run into quite incorrect answers.
> > 
> > I've been using it for ConTeXt, and to be honest, it works amazingly
> > well. It hallucinates sometimes, but it's such a time saver.
> 
> Maybe someone should try asking it to write documentation/manuals?
> 
> As a teacher, we are accustomed to seeing Google/Wikipedia/etc.
> cut-and-paste nonsense; now, this nonsense appears more polished, and our
> students are none the wiser. Saves them time, too! ;-)
> 
> Who said: "the best way to economize thought is not to think at all"?
> 
> Alan

Yeah. :) that's funny. Everybody uses chatgpt with lmtx

that's why everyone that uses it ends up in the mailing list asking to
resolve a problem that chatgpt couldn't resolve on its own. 

But here is the interesting part. The questions are answered by using chatgpt
too, rather than humans so nothing gets worked out in the end 

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-- 
If it has syntax, it isn't user friendly.

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Re: [NTG-context] TiKz with LMTX

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 03:06:10PM +0200, Floris van Manen via ntg-context 
wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/06/2023 14:49, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > %# Synchronize all modules from ConTeXt Garden in the 'modules' directory, 
> > which is created if it doesn’t exist.
> > to wherever the modules are
> 
> 
> isn't the command
> 
> mtxrun --script install-modules --install tikz
> 
> or
> 
> mtxrun --script install-modules --install --all
> 
> doing exactly that?

supposedly I guess it's supposed to work. That's what Mikael said. 

Your version is younger

system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2023.06.01 09:42 LMTX  fmt: 2023.6.4 int:
english/english

whereas mine is older 

system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2023.04.27 17:04 LMTX  fmt: 2023.6.5  int: 
english/english



> 
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"Without the wind, the grass does not move.  Without software,
hardware is useless."
-- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"

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Re: [NTG-context] TiKz with LMTX

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 01:02:43PM +0200, Floris van Manen via ntg-context 
wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/06/2023 12:33, Jigé via ntg-context wrote:
> > Did you do that in a fresh install?
> 
> yes

%copied from the wiki 
%# Synchronize all modules from ConTeXt Garden in the 'modules' directory, 
which is created if it doesn’t exist.
 
to wherever the modules are 

$ rsync --recursive --links --times --info=progress2,remove,symsafe,flist,del 
--human-readable --del rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/modules/ 
modules

then forget context --generate, it won't do anything else but going on
a loop but rather do a context --make


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Re: [NTG-context] knuth

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 09:58:31AM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 6/2/2023 9:27 AM, BPJ wrote:
> 
> > I wonder what Knuth would say about having ChatGPT write computer
> > programs, which I think can be outright dangerous. Either you get shitty
> > code which doesn't work, which is good, or you get shitty code which
> > works which is bad or Really Bad.
> 
> He's pretty clear that he leave that to others and continues with TAOCP.
> 
> wrt you remark: to a large extend these are 'plagiarism' machines so one can
> wonder about more. I suppose it also depends on how original these programs
> are (or become). 


Not original at all. One New Years' resolution ought to be «stop feeding
this whatever created by whoever» 

I've been trying to find a recent (just done a few months ago)
interactive session I had had with ChatGPT but I'm afraid I must have
dd'd the entire drive (just an honest mistake on the wrong drive at
the time while aiming primarily at fixing another drive and there
it went :(

But every interaction with it [chatgpt], was met/replied to with a
digression and paraphrasing on its part. i.e, sorry 'bout that. I
will not make that mistake again. I knew right away it was just
spitting out useless information. Grammatically correct but not
factual. Lacking substance.

I first brought up the invention of the printing press as a starting
point. And I asked it, to write me up an essay with the most interesting
parts

I remember that the point that chatgpt was trying to make, was in that the
printing press challenged the authority of the church. And I remember
I had to go back and forth with it and question that very verb/use of the
word challenging.

If anything seemed clear to me years ago. and also now, by reading
about the printing press and with the publication of the Bible and
later with the Book of Psalms and the first colophon in human hitory
and so forth, is that the invention of the printing press fostered
the establishment of the church. But I can't recall/just don't know
right now if by the time chatgpt had  decided to use ‹challenging›
was implying afterwards or after the establishment of the church, and
the excommunications that followed and so forth. All I know is that
it rewrote it with different paragraphs after I pointed it out. Very
well put nevertheless. But its main argumentative conclusion was the
challenging part rather than cementing/positioning/establishing/ one

Then I thought, heck, let's see if chatgtt is aware of the relatively
recent findings about the printing methods used by Gutenberg and so
forth. But it wasn't very clear on this either. As a matter of fact
it had no clue really about this for example, citing :

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/27/arts/has-history-been-too-generous-to-gutenberg.html

«Johann Gutenberg, the 15th-century German craftsman, has long been
believed to be the father of modern typography. But the secretive
inventor may have to share some of the paternity now. A physicist and
a scholar of rare books at Princeton University who jointly used new
technology to examine some of Gutenberg's texts say he may not have
created the seminal process after all, a finding could rewrite the
history of printing.

The two scholars contend that the metal mold method of printing
attributed to Gutenberg was probably invented by someone else about
20 years after Gutenberg printed his Bible. The method, which involves
punching a letter into a copper matrix that is filled with lead alloy
to create hundreds of identical letters, was the principal way of
printing until after World War II.»

«The discovery was announced on Monday by Paul Needham, the librarian
of the Scheide Library, a private library housed at Princeton, and
Blaise Agüera y Arcas, a 25-year-old graduate of Princeton with a
degree in physics, before a standing-room-only audience at New York's
Grolier Club, a club for book collectors founded in 1884.»

the above link was referenced at the following link  originally, which I had 
read before 

https://jikji.utah.edu/
 


> I don't see myself using such software, just like I don't
> use all these software coding tools (ide stuff). When I acn't remember what
> I'm doing, or need constant help popping up I should not code. I'm intrigued
> of course, and see valid applications, but wrt programming I'm just not that
> interested. I bet after a few years people get bored with the artificial
> stuff (painting, music, proze, movies, whatever; just hitting buttons
> doesn't make a creative person I guess), unless of course one wants to be
> zombified.
> 
> Hans
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> 

Re: [NTG-context] This is rmally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots.

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 07:00:15PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> On 5/9/2023 6:24 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > With that being said, in that sense (not that I need it though, to be
> > honest), the luatex lmtx approach is more of an instant gratification,
> > whereas with latex and the metrics of the file afterwards, any math
> > environment is certainly possible, while loading myriad and minion et co
> > without an error
> > 
> > I still stand for what I said earlier. That lot and their heirs already
> > made their money by shoving down acroread all over. It's no secret
> Normally context will fall bakc on latin modern but when you explicitly load
> a font setup and that one doesn't have math fonts it will not be set up

I checked the type-imp-* file. Unicode-math from latex had no issues on
two different systems one running a full TeXLive and the other on e
customized on-demand package installatino

but that part you said in the beginning:

> Normally context will fall bakc on latin modern but when you explicitly load

that's simply brilliant Hans

\starttypescript [minionserif]
  \definetypeface [minionserif][rm] [serif] [minionserif]   [default]
  \definetypeface [minionserif][ss] [sans]  [minionsans][default]
%  \definetypeface [minionsans][mm] [math]  [minionserif]   [default]



> right and then you get these parameter relates messages. The minion math
> font is supported when you have it installed although we're not sure if the
> tweaks will work okay. I only have an old evaluation copy that I can't use
> outside testing anyway, and I don't have the minion fonts that can be used
> in documents (acrobat fonts are only for display) so I never use minion
> anyway.
> 
> Although every math environment is possible (after all there are not than
> manyu math fonts) one always has to match them properly with serif and sans
> fonts (relative scaling etc).
> 
> When someone wants support for some commercial font, they have to buy us a
> few copies with no constraints. (Normally in a project we just get them
> anyway.) There are plenty of examples in the type-imp-* files that show the
> way.
> 
> Hans
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> 

-- 
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"When a program is being tested, it is too late to make design changes."
-- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"

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Re: [NTG-context] This is rmally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots.

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 05:28:11PM -0400, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 07:00:15PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> > 
> > On 5/9/2023 6:24 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > 
> > > With that being said, in that sense (not that I need it though, to be
> > > honest), the luatex lmtx approach is more of an instant gratification,
> > > whereas with latex and the metrics of the file afterwards, any math
> > > environment is certainly possible, while loading myriad and minion et co
> > > without an error
> > > 
> > > I still stand for what I said earlier. That lot and their heirs already
> > > made their money by shoving down acroread all over. It's no secret
> > Normally context will fall bakc on latin modern but when you explicitly load
> > a font setup and that one doesn't have math fonts it will not be set up
> > right and then you get these parameter relates messages. The minion math
> > font is supported when you have it installed although we're not sure if the
> > tweaks will work okay. I only have an old evaluation copy that I can't use
> > outside testing anyway, and I don't have the minion fonts that can be used
> > in documents (acrobat fonts are only for display) so I never use minion
> > anyway.
> > 
> > Although every math environment is possible (after all there are not than
> > manyu math fonts) one always has to match them properly with serif and sans
> > fonts (relative scaling etc).
> > 
> > When someone wants support for some commercial font, they have to buy us a
> > few copies with no constraints. (Normally in a project we just get them
> > anyway.) There are plenty of examples in the type-imp-* files that show the
> > way.
> > 
> > Hans
> 
> Thanks for the info Hans. I'll check it out again. About a month or
> so ago I went over the fonts used in  math with luatex lmtx  and it
> was more of a refreshing course than anything else. TeX Gyre and so
> forth. And a  similar approach which I used in handling these fonts
> in mkii before.
> 
> Recently someone made the suggestion of working or the intent to work or
> the suggestion or whatever of tackling mnssymbol on luatex. I don't know about
> that but.. I don't know. Perhaps I misunderstood
> 
> I've used this family of minion and myriad before, but I still think
> it has the same audience than the glyphs used by the chinese at the
> beginning of the typesetting history> weddings, funerals, pamphlets,
> etiquette cards, calendars, arithmetic tables and so forth. It has more
> flare than perhaps a lucida. But the latter, subjectively speaking,
> is perhaps more dry but also more straightforward and legible. For me
> anyway.
> 

By the way. Slightly unrelated to all of this but your paper on tug
about the adjustments to lucida is impressive.

https://tug.org/TUGboat/tb43-3/tb135hagen-lucida.pdf

But lucida is also just an uncial descendant. Bland, squashed, and
easily complex to adjust because of those very same features. Lo
and behold if anything like that is tried out on minion for that
matter. But for readability purposes, lucida is definitely a step ahead. 
This is all subjective of course. 

thanks for that work and paper on lucida Hans, Mikael


> But when I see that a simple page and nothing fancy really, cannot be
> processed under lmtx no matter how much tweaking is performed under
> the hood something is not quite right
> 
> the same (similar) screenshot attached here is under latex. Something
> similar is what I wanted to have, but couldn't.
> 
> I'll check out your suggestion. Thanks again Hans
> 
> 
> > 
> > -
> >   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> >   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> >tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> > -
> > 
> > ___
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
> > the Wiki!
> > 
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> > ___
> > 
> 
> -- 
> AmigaDOS Beer: The company has gone out of business, but their recipe 

Re: [NTG-context] This is rmally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots.

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 07:00:15PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> On 5/9/2023 6:24 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > With that being said, in that sense (not that I need it though, to be
> > honest), the luatex lmtx approach is more of an instant gratification,
> > whereas with latex and the metrics of the file afterwards, any math
> > environment is certainly possible, while loading myriad and minion et co
> > without an error
> > 
> > I still stand for what I said earlier. That lot and their heirs already
> > made their money by shoving down acroread all over. It's no secret
> Normally context will fall bakc on latin modern but when you explicitly load
> a font setup and that one doesn't have math fonts it will not be set up
> right and then you get these parameter relates messages. The minion math
> font is supported when you have it installed although we're not sure if the
> tweaks will work okay. I only have an old evaluation copy that I can't use
> outside testing anyway, and I don't have the minion fonts that can be used
> in documents (acrobat fonts are only for display) so I never use minion
> anyway.
> 
> Although every math environment is possible (after all there are not than
> manyu math fonts) one always has to match them properly with serif and sans
> fonts (relative scaling etc).
> 
> When someone wants support for some commercial font, they have to buy us a
> few copies with no constraints. (Normally in a project we just get them
> anyway.) There are plenty of examples in the type-imp-* files that show the
> way.
> 
> Hans

Thanks for the info Hans. I'll check it out again. About a month or
so ago I went over the fonts used in  math with luatex lmtx  and it
was more of a refreshing course than anything else. TeX Gyre and so
forth. And a  similar approach which I used in handling these fonts
in mkii before.

Recently someone made the suggestion of working or the intent to work or
the suggestion or whatever of tackling mnssymbol on luatex. I don't know about
that but.. I don't know. Perhaps I misunderstood

I've used this family of minion and myriad before, but I still think
it has the same audience than the glyphs used by the chinese at the
beginning of the typesetting history> weddings, funerals, pamphlets,
etiquette cards, calendars, arithmetic tables and so forth. It has more
flare than perhaps a lucida. But the latter, subjectively speaking,
is perhaps more dry but also more straightforward and legible. For me
anyway.

But when I see that a simple page and nothing fancy really, cannot be
processed under lmtx no matter how much tweaking is performed under
the hood something is not quite right

the same (similar) screenshot attached here is under latex. Something
similar is what I wanted to have, but couldn't.

I'll check out your suggestion. Thanks again Hans


> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___
> 

-- 
AmigaDOS Beer: The company has gone out of business, but their recipe has
been picked up by some weird German company, so now this beer will be an
import.  This beer never really sold very well because the original
manufacturer didn't understand marketing. Like Unix Beer, AmigaDOS Beer
fans are an extremely loyal and loud group. It originally came in a
16-oz. can, but now comes in 32-oz.  cans too.  When this can was
originally introduced, it appeared flashy and colorful, but the design
hasn't changed much over the years, so it appears dated now.  Critics of
this beer claim that it is only meant for watching TV anyway.
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Re: [NTG-context] This is rmally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots.

[Carlos via ntg-context]

> 
> On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 04:46:42PM +0200, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 4:20 PM Carlos via ntg-context
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello list
> > >
> > > the whole error message I get is
> > >
> > > tex error   > tex error on line 90 in file 
> > > ./atestinminion-context.mkiv: Math error: parameter 'operatorsize' with 
> > > id 8 in style 0 is not set
> > >
> > >  \m_operator_text
> > > \endgroup \Ustopmathmode
> > >  \m_operator_text
> > > \stopforceddisplaymath
> > > \egroup \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode \else 
> > > \strc_math_number_check_offsets \fi \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode 
> > > \strc_math_number_check \or \strc_math_number_check_outside \else 
> > > \strc_math_number_check_inside \fi \str
> > >  \m_operator_text
> > > \endgroup \strc_formulas_endstrut \stopinnermath
> > > \afterdisplayspace \egroup
> > >  \m_operator_text
> > > \strc_formulas_place_number \strc_formulas_flush_number 
> > > \dostarttagged \t!formulacontent \empty \dotagregisterformula 
> > > \c_strc_formulas_n \csname \e!stop \formulaparameter \c!alternative 
> > > \v!formula \endcsname
> > > \dostoptagged \dostoptagged \nonoindentati
> > > 
> > > \stopformula
> > >
> > > \startformula
> > > \int_{\infty}
> > > >>  \stopformula
> > >
> > > Sorry, but I can't typeset math unless various parameters have been set. 
> > > This is
> > > normally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots. 
> > > Your font
> > > set is lacking at least the parameter mentioned earlier.
> > >
> > > What parameter is this referring to here?
> > 
> > Looks like you might not have the Minion math font. Did you buy it?
> 
> Oh. That's what the math slot refers to then! I didn't buy it. I've been 
> shoved
> acroread before without asking and I had the whole set sans math 
> 

With that being said, in that sense (not that I need it though, to be
honest), the luatex lmtx approach is more of an instant gratification,
whereas with latex and the metrics of the file afterwards, any math
environment is certainly possible, while loading myriad and minion et co
without an error

I still stand for what I said earlier. That lot and their heirs already
made their money by shoving down acroread all over. It's no secret 

> thanks Mikael

thanks again Mikael for clarifying it. I wasn't sure. 
> > 
> > /Mikael
> > ___
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
> > the Wiki!
> > 
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> > ___
> 
> -- 
> If I'd known computer science was going to be like this, I'd never have
> given up being a rock 'n' roll star.
>   -- G. Hirst


> ___
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Re: [NTG-context] This is rmally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots.

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 04:46:42PM +0200, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context 
wrote:
> On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 4:20 PM Carlos via ntg-context
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello list
> >
> > the whole error message I get is
> >
> > tex error   > tex error on line 90 in file 
> > ./atestinminion-context.mkiv: Math error: parameter 'operatorsize' with id 
> > 8 in style 0 is not set
> >
> >  \m_operator_text
> > \endgroup \Ustopmathmode
> >  \m_operator_text
> > \stopforceddisplaymath
> > \egroup \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode \else 
> > \strc_math_number_check_offsets \fi \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode 
> > \strc_math_number_check \or \strc_math_number_check_outside \else 
> > \strc_math_number_check_inside \fi \str
> >  \m_operator_text
> > \endgroup \strc_formulas_endstrut \stopinnermath
> > \afterdisplayspace \egroup
> >  \m_operator_text
> > \strc_formulas_place_number \strc_formulas_flush_number \dostarttagged 
> > \t!formulacontent \empty \dotagregisterformula \c_strc_formulas_n \csname 
> > \e!stop \formulaparameter \c!alternative \v!formula \endcsname
> > \dostoptagged \dostoptagged \nonoindentati
> > 
> > \stopformula
> >
> > \startformula
> > \int_{\infty}
> > >>  \stopformula
> >
> > Sorry, but I can't typeset math unless various parameters have been set. 
> > This is
> > normally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots. 
> > Your font
> > set is lacking at least the parameter mentioned earlier.
> >
> > What parameter is this referring to here?
> 
> Looks like you might not have the Minion math font. Did you buy it?

Oh. That's what the math slot refers to then! I didn't buy it. I've been shoved
acroread before without asking and I had the whole set sans math 

thanks Mikael
> 
> /Mikael
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
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given up being a rock 'n' roll star.
-- G. Hirst
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Re: [NTG-context] This is rmally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots.

[Carlos via ntg-context]

> 
> tex error   > tex error on line 90 in file ./atestinminion-context.mkiv: 
> Math error: parameter 'operatorsize' with id 8 in style 0 is not set
> 
>  \m_operator_text 
> \endgroup \Ustopmathmode 
>  \m_operator_text 
> \stopforceddisplaymath 
> \egroup \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode \else 
> \strc_math_number_check_offsets \fi \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode 
> \strc_math_number_check \or \strc_math_number_check_outside \else 
> \strc_math_number_check_inside \fi \str
>  \m_operator_text 
> \endgroup \strc_formulas_endstrut \stopinnermath 
> \afterdisplayspace \egroup 
>  \m_operator_text 
> \strc_formulas_place_number \strc_formulas_flush_number \dostarttagged 
> \t!formulacontent \empty \dotagregisterformula \c_strc_formulas_n \csname 
> \e!stop \formulaparameter \c!alternative \v!formula \endcsname 
> \dostoptagged \dostoptagged \nonoindentati
>  
> \stopformula
> 
> \startformula 
> 
>   \int_{\infty}   
>   
> >>  \stopformula  
> >> 
> 
> Sorry, but I can't typeset math unless various parameters have been set. This 
> is
> normally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots. Your 
> font
> set is lacking at least the parameter mentioned earlier.
> 
> What parameter is this referring to here? 
> 
> If I were to load sans it finishes off without errors on the math side,
> but then again, doesn't load sans at all
> 
> mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 2 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
> minionpro-regular.otf
> 
> And as you can guess,  the above is not I was looking forward to 

in other words, this is wanted

mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: minionpro-bold.otf, minionpro-it.otf, 
minionpro-regular.otf, myriadpro-regular.otf

but then again,  it's not possible without the preloaded
latinmodern-math if a math environment is included. 

> 
> 
> -- 
> Real computer scientists don't comment their code.  The identifiers are
> so long they can't afford the disk space.


> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
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-- 
`Lasu' Releases SAG 0.3 -- Freeware Book Takes Paves For New World Order
by staff writers

Helsinki, Finland, August 6, 1995 -- In a surprise movement, Lars
``Lasu'' Wirzenius today released the 0.3 edition of the ``Linux System
Administrators' Guide''.  Already an industry non-classic, the new
version sports such overwhelming features as an overview of a Linux
system, a completely new climbing session in a tree, and a list of
acknowledgements in the introduction.
The SAG, as the book is affectionately called, is one of the
corner stones of the Linux Documentation Project.  ``We at the LDP feel
that we wouldn't be able to produce anything at all, that all our work
would be futile, if it weren't for the SAG,'' says Matt Welsh, director
of LDP, Inc.
The new version is still distributed freely, now even with a
copyright that allows modification.  ``More dough,'' explains the author.
Despite insistent rumors about blatant commercialization, the SAG will
probably remain free.  ``Even more dough,'' promises the author.
The author refuses to comment on Windows NT and Windows 96
versions, claiming not to understand what the question is about.
Industry gossip, however, tells that Bill Gates, co-founder and CEO of
Microsoft, producer of the Windows series of video games, has visited
Helsinki several times this year.  Despite of this, Linus Torvalds,
author of the word processor Linux with which the SAG was written, is
not worried.  ``We'll have world domination real soon now, anyway,'' he
explains, ``for 1.4 at the lastest.''
...
-- Lars Wirzenius 
   [comp.os.linux.announce]

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[NTG-context] This is rmally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots.

[Carlos via ntg-context]

Hello list 

the whole error message I get is

tex error   > tex error on line 90 in file ./atestinminion-context.mkiv: 
Math error: parameter 'operatorsize' with id 8 in style 0 is not set

 \m_operator_text 
\endgroup \Ustopmathmode 
 \m_operator_text 
\stopforceddisplaymath 
\egroup \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode \else 
\strc_math_number_check_offsets \fi \ifcase \c_strc_formulas_frame_mode 
\strc_math_number_check \or \strc_math_number_check_outside \else 
\strc_math_number_check_inside \fi \str
 \m_operator_text 
\endgroup \strc_formulas_endstrut \stopinnermath 
\afterdisplayspace \egroup 
 \m_operator_text 
\strc_formulas_place_number \strc_formulas_flush_number \dostarttagged 
\t!formulacontent \empty \dotagregisterformula \c_strc_formulas_n \csname 
\e!stop \formulaparameter \c!alternative \v!formula \endcsname 
\dostoptagged \dostoptagged \nonoindentati
 
\stopformula

\startformula   
  
\int_{\infty}   
  
>>  \stopformula
>>   

Sorry, but I can't typeset math unless various parameters have been set. This is
normally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots. Your 
font
set is lacking at least the parameter mentioned earlier.

What parameter is this referring to here? 

If I were to load sans it finishes off without errors on the math side,
but then again, doesn't load sans at all

mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 2 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
minionpro-regular.otf

And as you can guess,  the above is not I was looking forward to 


-- 
Real computer scientists don't comment their code.  The identifiers are
so long they can't afford the disk space.
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Re: [NTG-context] \setupitemize[indentnext=auto] broken?

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sun, Apr 16, 2023 at 01:24:08PM -0300, Jim via ntg-context wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 16, 2023 at 08:28 (-0400), Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 02:27:56PM -0300, Jim via ntg-context wrote:
> >> In the wiki page https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Indentation there is the
> >> following example:
> 
> >> %
> 
> >> \setupindenting[medium,yes]
> >> \setupitemize[indentnext=auto]
> 
> >>   \startitemize
> >> \item One
> >>   \stopitemize
> 
> >> This paragraph should be indented - due to the blank line after 
> >> \type{\stopitemize}.
> 
> >>   \startitemize
> >> \item Two
> >>   \stopitemize
> >> This paragraph should not be indented.
> 
> >> %
> 
> >> Tragically, the paragraph which claims it should be indented is not, in
> >> both my test and the wiki page itself.
> 
> >> Is this a documentation bug, a ConTeXt bug, or something else yet?
> 
> > I don't know.
> 
> OK, but I wasn't asking you specifically.

Thnt's more than obvious, asshole. Or passive-aggressive asshole.

You're posting it on the mailing list for the users, devs, and
end-users alike to test it out as required and comment or say whatever
they want.

> 
> > Why would it be a documentation bug if it clearly says it should be
> > indented only after the blank line, unless \indent was omitted on purpose
> > while trying to make it look as if the blank line would have any effect
> > after all.  Makes no sense.
> 
> Have you never run into a documentation bug before?  Happy you!
> 
> I see two possibly reasons for a documentation bug here (there might be more):
> (1) The documentation was incorrect at time of writing.  Humans have been
> known to make mistakes.
> (2) The semantics of \setupitemize might have changed since the documentation
> was written, and the change has not yet been reflected in this
> particular piece of documentation.
> This would not be the first time that documentation changes lagged
> behind code changes.
> 

Neither one. 

> The point is, there is a disconnect between the documentation says will
> happen and what actually happens.  I don't know which is wrong, and thus my
> question.  I hope that sooner or later someone who can definitively comment
> on the disconnect will speak up.

I agree. :) 

> 
> > \setupindenting[medium,yes]
> > \setupitemize[indentnext=auto]
> 
> > \starttext
> >   \startitemize
> > \item One
> >   \stopitemize\indent%blank line
> 
> > This paragraph should be indented - due to the blank line after 
> > \type{\stopitemize}.
> 
> >   \startitemize
> > \item Two
> >   \stopitemize
> 
> > \noindent{\dorecurse{10}{\indent This paragraph should not be indented.}}
> > \stoptext
> ___
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> 

-- 
To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so.

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Re: [NTG-context] Software upgrade for ntg and contextgarden server 6 April

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 10:57:15AM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 4/15/2023 3:23 AM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > thank you Taco, Hans, and Aditya, Mikael, et
> > 
> > Hans, I was just curious about your git strategy and wanted to ask you 
> > about something.
> 
> I have no strategy. I see it as just an offline repository and archive.

It's a strategy. It may not be the fanciest  but you wrote earlier:

>it's sort of the original git archive and our backup plan.
>   
>
>  https://github.com/contextgarden/context 

‹backup plan› has the same meaning there than a master plan (no pun
intended with git) hence the association with a strategy. 

But when I wrote ‹strategy› it was not written with the intention
to convey a message of exhaustive calculations to get or divise the
plan of plans.  NO. Rather more like what the definition says about it

a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim.

what is the backup plan of git as an archive but just a backup
strategy. 
> 
> The luametatex repos sort of resembles what I have on my machine but even
> then I always use intermediate 'compare before merge' steps that predate
> git. Git (or svn) is nice for seeing changes but I admit that I never
> roll-back using git. When I have to integrate something in e.g. luametatex
> that comes from git I always diff (winmerge) and "manually merge". So much
> for stragety: not that fancy.

I agree 
> 
> The context updates are assembled from a completely different dev structure
> (think also of temporary files, runtime files for manuals etc that don't
> belong in something git) and turning that modus operandi into something git
> would make my way of doing things pretty inefficient, so unless very little
> changes etc happen i won't change that.
> 

But it's good for the memory Hans. It's good for us. Studies on humans
have revealed that learning or adapting  to new methods might prove
beneficial in the long run.

> All the git magic is maintained by Mojca and occassionally we discuss how to
> move on (we have some pending install-from-git stuff but that might take a
> while before being promoted).

> 
> I'm not really interested in al the additional stuff like chats, pull
> requests, keeping track of comments in git, all these (for me useless)
> statistics. I don't want to end up in an endless 'check this or that' noose,
> so for me email and communicating (could be visual) with some involved does
> it well; more fun too.

I agree with you there. But who said anything about messages, chats, and
the interactive social gitclub as gitlab, github and its ilk have
suddenly become part of 

> 
> For some other projects git(hub|lab) is a communication method, basically an
> on-line storage.
> 
> > Did you guys ever consider having a cgit interface and hosting it.
> > 
> > A bunch of projects have done it
> > 
> > heck. Even git, which is where everything solely depends on in the end, is 
> > running it.
> > 
> > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/git/git.git/
> > 
> > https://git.zx2c4.com/cgit/about/
> There is not much to gain with adding yet another interface to what we have
> now. It only works if one or more people commit (no git pun intended)
> themselves long-term to it which relates to ie beging used.
> 

It's just an interface much more simpler than what the git archive
backup interface currently in use presumably undergoes. Git is sort
of big as-is and that's not even counting all its remote helpers
by which all those places depend on (gitlab, github, bitbucket),
which makes it even bigger. 

I've just seen that interface in a few projects and thought it was nice
that the devs have somehow implemented it. 



> (Keep in mind that it's all volunteer work.)
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
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> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
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> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> 

Re: [NTG-context] \setupitemize[indentnext=auto] broken?

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 02:27:56PM -0300, Jim via ntg-context wrote:
> In the wiki page https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Indentation there is the
> following example:
> 
> %
> 
> \setupindenting[medium,yes]
> \setupitemize[indentnext=auto]
> 
>   \startitemize
> \item One
>   \stopitemize
> 
>   This paragraph should be indented - due to the blank line after 
> \type{\stopitemize}.
> 
>   \startitemize
> \item Two
>   \stopitemize
>   This paragraph should not be indented.
> 
> %
> 
> Tragically, the paragraph which claims it should be indented is not, in
> both my test and the wiki page itself.
> 
> Is this a documentation bug, a ConTeXt bug, or something else yet?

I don't know. Why would it be a documentation bug if it clearly says it
should be indented only after the blank line,  unless \indent was omitted on
purpose while trying to make it look as if the blank line would  have
any effect after all. Makes no sense. 

\setupindenting[medium,yes]
\setupitemize[indentnext=auto]

\starttext
  \startitemize
\item One
  \stopitemize\indent%blank line

This paragraph should be indented - due to the blank line after 
\type{\stopitemize}.

  \startitemize
\item Two
  \stopitemize
  
\noindent{\dorecurse{10}{\indent This paragraph should not be indented.}}
\stoptext


> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Jim
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-- 
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(2)  Dead cat brush
(3)  Hair barrettes
(4)  Cleats
(5)  Self-piercing earrings
(6)  Fungus trellis
(7)  False eyelashes
(8)  Prosthetic dog claws
.
.
.
(99)  Window garden harrow (pulled behind Tonka tractors)
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Re: [NTG-context] Software upgrade for ntg and contextgarden server 6 April

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:13:58AM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 4/14/2023 3:50 PM, mf via ntg-context wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > the github repo at https://github.com/contextgarden/context-mirror
> > is not updated since March 20th.
> > 
> > I don't know whether it's related to the server update, but maybe you know.
> 
> I fetch from the origin,
> 
>   https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror.git
>  which seems up to date; i suppose github gets it from there but
> occasionally it lags behind; it's sort of the original git archive and our
> backup plan.
> 
>   https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> 
> Should be okay,
> 
> Hans

thank you Taco, Hans, and Aditya, Mikael, et

Hans, I was just curious about your git strategy and wanted to ask you about 
something. 

Did you guys ever consider having a cgit interface and hosting it. 

A bunch of projects have done it  

heck. Even git, which is where everything solely depends on in the end, is 
running it. 

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/git/git.git/

https://git.zx2c4.com/cgit/about/
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
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Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 05:57:30PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 4/11/2023 3:13 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > But where is actually luametatex under the standalone sources
> just in the bin path

thanks Hans. 

Didn't have the time to look at et . Looking at a small display on
this system and sort of like going blind . 

Regarding old mkiv,  I didn't have the time to delve more into it,
but I think (couuld be wrong here) The script installation first-setup
for that old mkiv is not as straightforward as lmtx is, and to
top it off I had downloaded the modules only

With the former I had to manually create the dir temxf-linux-64
whereas with lmtx installation was smooth right after

that's why when I read the resolvers output I had pointed it out to
Aditya that it was looking over and over for that dir to no
avail (of course: the dir was never there; it was never created) 

Path is always a problem as you know. On gnu/linux bash init file means
nothing, as most likely a profile file that supersedes it sets it up
regardless of sessions and how many times logging off and rebooting ,
but the problem woudlnt' stop there as long as texmf is there

I can probably venture out and say that even then, even then… it doesn't
 mean nothing while texmf is still there .

what is mtxrun --script cache going to erase let alone /generate
while texmf is in place? the chances are nil, nada, iteración infinita

It's not going to happen. and an unknown script context.lua mtx-context.lua
will certainly pop up all over again

only after moving/removing texmf it'd go through or else it won't .

then yes

context --luatex --generate 
context --luatex --make 
or
context --make

p.s

and all of the above over a lucida sans that was my own misconfiguration 
that's hilarious :) 

Hans. sorry but I just couldn't stop thinking about it. All over a sans
font. Seriously. 


> 
> Hans
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 12:20:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 4/11/2023 12:00 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > and belongs to TeX Live?
> 
> well, i suppose there is a non-empty copy in texlive but an empty one can go
> indeed
> 
> > > > Here we go! Back to point A where we were at before
> > > as alan pointed out: just install with the lmtx installer in a path 
> > > separate
> > > from tex live, set the path and you're done; don't try to mix texlive 
> > > with a
> > > adapted of standalone, texlive has its own context package and updates 
> > > etc;
> > > keep them separated
> > 
> > alright. That's fine. That's what I thought.
> > 
> > So copy over the mtxrun binary on texmf-linux-64/bin to context and call it 
> > a
> > day?
> as long as the five mentioned files are there (and best hand mtxrun, context
> and luametatex the same so use links) ... luametatex is the engine as well
> as stub runner (runs the luatex file in the same path with the same name and
> suffix lua)
> 

I was just going over path just to make sure that the TeX Live
infrastructure would not return anything from
/opt/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linux/ as it doing before

thank you for the clarification but where is luametatex  on the
standalone sources
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
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Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 12:20:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 4/11/2023 12:00 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > and belongs to TeX Live?
> 
> well, i suppose there is a non-empty copy in texlive but an empty one can go
> indeed
> 
> > > > Here we go! Back to point A where we were at before
> > > as alan pointed out: just install with the lmtx installer in a path 
> > > separate
> > > from tex live, set the path and you're done; don't try to mix texlive 
> > > with a
> > > adapted of standalone, texlive has its own context package and updates 
> > > etc;
> > > keep them separated
> > 
> > alright. That's fine. That's what I thought.
> > 
> > So copy over the mtxrun binary on texmf-linux-64/bin to context and call it 
> > a
> > day?
> as long as the five mentioned files are there (and best hand mtxrun, context
> and luametatex the same so use links) ... luametatex is the engine as well
> as stub runner (runs the luatex file in the same path with the same name and
> suffix lua)
> 

thank you for the clarification. I was going over path to make sure that
anything under /opt/texlive/2022/bin/x86_64-linux/ returns no binaries from
there 

But where is actually luametatex under the standalone sources

> -
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>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
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Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 11:23:45AM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 4/11/2023 11:11 AM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > Hello Alan, my PATH is set to:
> > 
> > PATH=/home/ce/context-install/bin:/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-linux-64/bin:/opt/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linux:$PATH;
> >  export PATH
> 
> what is that first path doing there
> 

okay. Let's remove it. The second one wouldn't hurt it I guess, right?
and it's needed.

> > Do we actually need to list all kpsea variable here ?? fine
> 
> doesn't hurt .. also because they can be set badly at the os level (you
> really don't want to knwo when has be encountered in the 20th century)
> 

:) 

> > Here are some of them, which are really irrelevant by the way, but just
> > adding info
> > 
> > $ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFROOT
> > /opt/texlive/2023
> > $ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFDIST
> > /opt/texlive/2023/texmf-dist
> > $ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFLOCAL
> > /opt/texlive/texmf-local
> > 
> > Now let's take a peek inside the TeX Live infrastructure-only,  shall
> > we? (just for additional info as TeX Live is ocnsidered one of the
> > many scripts out there, right?  One is interested in the standalone in
> > the end)
> > 
> > LICENSE.CTAN   bin install-tl.log   texmf-config  
> > texmfcnf.lua
> > LICENSE.TL doc.htmlreadme-html.dir  texmf-disttlpkg
> > README index.html  readme-txt.dir   texmf-var
> > README.usergroups  install-tl  release-texlive.txt  texmf.cnf
> 
> that si texlive, not standalone
> 
> > that texmfcnf.lua only holds
> > 
> > return {
> >content = {
> >  variables = {
> >  },
> >},
> > }
> > 
> > which is useless
> 
> and harmless (somethign old texlive)
> 
> > so, no bueno. Not when the aim is to install a fully functional context
> > standalone
> > 
> > Now let's take a peek instide and see the binaries
> > 
> > afm2tfm  etex  kpsereadlink mfmtxrun.lua  texluac
> > bibtex   extractbb kpsestat mf-nowin  pdfetex tlmgr
> > context  fmtutil   kpsewhichmft   pdflatextlshell
> > context.lua  fmtutil-sys   latexmkindex   pdftex  updmap
> > dvilualatex  fmtutil-user  luahbtex mktexfmt  pktogf  updmap-sys
> > dviluatexgftodvi   lualatex mktexlsr  pktype  
> > updmap-user
> > dvipdfm  gftopkluametatex   mktexmf   rungs   xdvi
> > dvipdfmx gftypeluaotfload-tool  mktexpk   simpdftex   xdvi-xaw
> > dvipdft  inimf luatex   mktextfm  tex xdvipdfmx
> > dvipsinitexmakeindexmptopdf   texhash
> > ebb  kpseaccessman  mtxruntexlua
> > 
> > Do you see that context and context.lua out there, right? That's
> > only after running tlmgr and installing it, so no bueno, because in
> > the meantime there's no texmfcnf.lua around
> 
> comes from the tex live base package ... harmless, just takes bytes (only
> luatex, luametatex, context, mtxrun, context.lua and mtxrun.lua matter)
> 
> > Then again, remember in the current state I actually don't have
> > texmfcnf.lua for the simple reason that first-setup.sh never provided
> > it, correct?
> 
> aditya pointer that out (and it's one of the files that one doesn't want to
> be overwritten anyway)
> 

For clarification, Do you mean the file that consists of 

-- the distributed file (.../texlive//texmf-dist/web2c/texmfcnf.lua).
-- And include *only* your changed values, not a copy of the whole thing!

return { 
  content = {
variables = {
},
  },
}

and belongs to TeX Live? 

> > Here we go! Back to point A where we were at before
> as alan pointed out: just install with the lmtx installer in a path separate
> from tex live, set the path and you're done; don't try to mix texlive with a
> adapted of standalone, texlive has its own context package and updates etc;
> keep them separated

alright. That's fine. That's what I thought. 

So copy over the mtxrun binary on texmf-linux-64/bin to context and call it a
day? 

> 
> Hans
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> _

Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 10:01:55PM -0600, Alan Braslau via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:51:58 -0400 (EDT)
> Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context  wrote:
> 
> > Did you source the `setuptex` script, which sets the correct path.
> 
> My PATH is set to
> PATH=./context/tex/texmf-freebsd-amd64/bin:/home/MyAccount/context/tex/texmf-freebsd-amd64/bin:...
> 
> If my current working directory ("./") is a project that contains its
> very own subdirectory ./context/, then this is used to typeset the
> project. If not, it falls back on my own general standalone
> $HOME/context/, and if that does not exist, then it falls back on, say,
> a systemwide TeXlive installation.
> 
> This is all that is needed to have many versions coexist.
> 
> Alan

Hello Alan, my PATH is set to:

PATH=/home/ce/context-install/bin:/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-linux-64/bin:/opt/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linux:$PATH;
 export PATH

because not by going by TeX Live infrastructure only, but rather
by standalone resolvers that's exactly what the additional steps to
install that very same  standalone required, a folder
texmf-linux-64/bin, which it's pretty much self-explanatory 

And I already mentioned the above earlier 

Again

Do we actually need to list all kpsea variable here ?? fine

Here are some of them, which are really irrelevant by the way, but just
adding info

$ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFROOT
/opt/texlive/2023
$ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFDIST
/opt/texlive/2023/texmf-dist
$ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFLOCAL
/opt/texlive/texmf-local

Now let's take a peek inside the TeX Live infrastructure-only,  shall
we? (just for additional info as TeX Live is ocnsidered one of the
many scripts out there, right?  One is interested in the standalone in
the end)

LICENSE.CTAN   bin install-tl.log   texmf-config  texmfcnf.lua
LICENSE.TL doc.htmlreadme-html.dir  texmf-disttlpkg
README index.html  readme-txt.dir   texmf-var
README.usergroups  install-tl  release-texlive.txt  texmf.cnf

that texmfcnf.lua only holds 

return { 
  content = {
variables = {
},
  },
}

which is useless

so, no bueno. Not when the aim is to install a fully functional context
standalone

Now let's take a peek instide and see the binaries 

afm2tfm  etex  kpsereadlink mfmtxrun.lua  texluac
bibtex   extractbb kpsestat mf-nowin  pdfetex tlmgr
context  fmtutil   kpsewhichmft   pdflatextlshell
context.lua  fmtutil-sys   latexmkindex   pdftex  updmap
dvilualatex  fmtutil-user  luahbtex mktexfmt  pktogf  updmap-sys
dviluatexgftodvi   lualatex mktexlsr  pktype  updmap-user
dvipdfm  gftopkluametatex   mktexmf   rungs   xdvi
dvipdfmx gftypeluaotfload-tool  mktexpk   simpdftex   xdvi-xaw
dvipdft  inimf luatex   mktextfm  tex xdvipdfmx
dvipsinitexmakeindexmptopdf   texhash
ebb  kpseaccessman  mtxruntexlua

Do you see that context and context.lua out there, right? That's
only after running tlmgr and installing it, so no bueno, because in
the meantime there's no texmfcnf.lua around

Then again, remember in the current state I actually don't have
texmfcnf.lua for the simple reason that first-setup.sh never provided
it, correct?

So, wwith that in mind and in place, even that context binary from TeX
Live infrastructure as shown before is a known fact that texmfcnf.lua
is nowhere to be found

So let me see if I can copy one from an otherwise fully functional TeX Live
with almost 5g of space taken over and copy it over to this TeX Live 
infrastrcutre so
everything checks out in the end 

What happens then is not really surprising

If I were to copy over a copy that I found elsewhere over to web2c
of the TeX Live-infrastructure-only installation,  this is what happens:

$ context --generate --luatex
mtxrun  | unknown script 'mtx-context.lua' or 'mtx-mtx-context.lua'

Here we go! Back to point A where we were at before


> 
> P.S. It can be a good practice to keep a ConTeXt standalone version
> associated with each project, which can be "frozen" with the project,
> assuring that the sources can always be typeset in the future "as is".
> 
> P.P.S. This per-project ./context/ subdirectory can include multiple
> tex/texmf-system-architecture subdirectories and the project shared
> between different machines, all in happy coexistence. (Hans told me a
> while ago that they all use unique luametatex caches.)
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Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 08:51:58PM -0400, Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > I'm just following some of the standalone installation instructions
> > as per the wiki alongside  a TeX Live installation,  but there are a
> > few things that don't add up or I can't seem to add them up :).
> > 
> > first, while I was trying to mtxrun --generate it returned
> > 
> > /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory
> > 
> > So I thought heck, perhaps by creating a symbolic link we'll call it
> > a day, but that wasn't enough, nope.
> > 
> > This is is circa 21st century ladies and gentlemen!
> > 
> > so I thought, alright, since there seems ot be a a problem with texlua,
> > let's also add it to path somehow.
> 
> Did you source the `setuptex` script, which sets the correct path.
> 
> > So with that out of the way, we'll move on to the next step and change
> > to a directory and try to call out mtxrun --generate again
> > 
> > It returns:
> > 
> > mtxrun --generate resolvers   | resolving | variable 'SELFAUTOLOC'
> > set to '/home/ce/context/bin' resolvers   | resolving | variable
> 
> This appears to be the wrong mtxrun binary. You should include the PATH 
> variable listed as part of the installation. It should point to 
> `/home/ce/context/texmf-linux-64/bin` or something similar.

with texmfcnf.lua and the contextbinary from just hte TeX Live infrastructure
there is an interesting conflict with the same ol' same ol' 

anyhow

[2/2, 00:02/02:56] install: context [92021k]
running mktexlsr ...
done running mktexlsr.
running mtxrun --generate ...
done running mtxrun --generate.
running context --luatex --generate ...
done running context --luatex --generate.
running updmap-sys ...
done running updmap-sys.

then

context 

mtxrun  | unknown script 'mtx-context.lua' or 'mtx-mtx-context.lua'

context --luatex --generate 

mtxrun  | unknown script 'mtx-context.lua' or 'mtx-mtx-context.lua'

same as with

context --generate

mtxrun  | unknown script 'mtx-context.lua' or 'mtx-mtx-context.lua'

so it's an either or. texmfcnf.lua in place mtxrun would definitely
go through but breaks context calls, while without it, a context call
is just ostracized to a

context --generate --luatex
mtx-context | redirect luametatex -> luatex: luatex --luaonly 
"/opt/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linux/mtxrun.lua" --generate --redirected

but that's not what I had in mind.

mtxrun --script cache --erase

mtxrun  | unknown script 'cache.lua' or 'mtx-cache.lua'


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Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 08:51:58PM -0400, Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > I'm just following some of the standalone installation instructions
> > as per the wiki alongside  a TeX Live installation,  but there are a
> > few things that don't add up or I can't seem to add them up :).
> > 
> > first, while I was trying to mtxrun --generate it returned
> > 
> > /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory
> > 
> > So I thought heck, perhaps by creating a symbolic link we'll call it
> > a day, but that wasn't enough, nope.
> > 
> > This is is circa 21st century ladies and gentlemen!
> > 
> > so I thought, alright, since there seems ot be a a problem with texlua,
> > let's also add it to path somehow.
> 
> Did you source the `setuptex` script, which sets the correct path.
> 
> > So with that out of the way, we'll move on to the next step and change
> > to a directory and try to call out mtxrun --generate again
> > 
> > It returns:
> > 
> > mtxrun --generate resolvers   | resolving | variable 'SELFAUTOLOC'
> > set to '/home/ce/context/bin' resolvers   | resolving | variable
> 
> This appears to be the wrong mtxrun binary. You should include the PATH 
> variable listed as part of the installation. It should point to 
> `/home/ce/context/texmf-linux-64/bin` or something similar.
> 
> Aditya


Is there any rationale not to have texmfcnf.lua alongside context.cnf
and contextcnf.lua under web2c with the current standalone
installation?  

Because on TeX Live infrastructure alone, I have my doubts that that file
will be somehow generated magically. would it?

Of course I could probably scrounge it off somewhere but it's also
besides the point 

On the current installation of a standalone relying solely on what
tewmf/webc holds is… well.  




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Re: [NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 08:51:58PM -0400, Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > I'm just following some of the standalone installation instructions
> > as per the wiki alongside  a TeX Live installation,  but there are a
> > few things that don't add up or I can't seem to add them up :).
> > 
> > first, while I was trying to mtxrun --generate it returned
> > 
> > /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory
> > 
> > So I thought heck, perhaps by creating a symbolic link we'll call it
> > a day, but that wasn't enough, nope.
> > 
> > This is is circa 21st century ladies and gentlemen!
> > 
> > so I thought, alright, since there seems ot be a a problem with texlua,
> > let's also add it to path somehow.
> 
> Did you source the `setuptex` script, which sets the correct path.

Of course I sourced it and complains about plain.tex
> 
> > So with that out of the way, we'll move on to the next step and change
> > to a directory and try to call out mtxrun --generate again
> > 
> > It returns:
> > 
> > mtxrun --generate resolvers   | resolving | variable 'SELFAUTOLOC'
> > set to '/home/ce/context/bin' resolvers   | resolving | variable
> 
> This appears to be the wrong mtxrun binary. You should include the PATH 
> variable listed as part of the installation. It should point to 
> `/home/ce/context/texmf-linux-64/bin` or something similar.

binaries. 

Let's start over for the simple reason that texmfcnf.lua does not exist.

Not through a TeX Live infrastructure only installation anyway. 

let's run ./install --modules=all and it rightly reports that 

mtx-update  | updating mtxrun for linux-64: rsync -tgo --chmod=a+x
'/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtxrun.lua'
'/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-linux-64/bin/mtxrun'
mtx-update  | run, rsync -tgo --chmod=a+x 
'/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtxrun.lua'
'/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-linux-64/bin/mtxrun'
rsync: [Receiver] change_dir#3 
"/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-linux-64/bin" failed: No such file or 
directory (2)
rsync error: errors selecting input/output files, dirs (code 3) at main.c(827) 
[Receiver=3.2.7]
resolvers   | tds | no 'texmf-linux-64' under tree 
'/home/ce/context-install/tex'

Now. Let's add the directories, correct? 

If you were to look at the following 

resolvers   | resolving | using configuration specification 
'home:texmf/web2c;{selfautoloc:,selfautoloc:/share/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoloc:/share/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoloc:/share/texmf/web2c,selfautoloc:/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoloc:/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoloc:/texmf/web2c,selfautodir:,selfautodir:/share/texmf-local/web2c,selfautodir:/share/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautodir:/share/texmf/web2c,selfautodir:/texmf-local/web2c,selfautodir:/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautodir:/texmf/web2c,$SELFAUTOGRANDPARENT/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoparent:,selfautoparent:/share/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoparent:/share/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoparent:/share/texmf/web2c,selfautoparent:/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoparent:/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoparent:/texmf/web2c}'
resolvers   | resolving |
resolvers   | resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'/home/ce/texmf/web2c' from specification 'home:texmf/web2c'
resolvers   | resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on weird path
'/home/ce/context-install/tex/texmf-linux-64/bin' from specification 
'selfautoloc:'


you'd notice that is looking over and over for a texmfcnf.lua 

But where is my texmfcnf.lua? Would you know? :) Because I don't. The
only instance of a texmfcnf.lua dates back to a prepackaged
installation that is no longer there anyway

it points to a prepackaged texlive which I'm not using and not planning
to. 

and what I have under TEXMFHOME which doesn't amount to much anyway , or what's
important for the current issue is 

amiga-pl.tcx  cp8bit.tcx   il2-t1.tcxmktex.opt tcvn-t5.tcx
cp1250cs.tcx  empty.tcxkam-cs.tcxmktexdir  texmf.cnf
cp1250pl.tcx  fmtutil-hdr.cnf  kam-t1.tcxmktexdir.opt  updmap-hdr.cfg
cp1250t1.tcx  fmtutil.cnf  macce-pl.tcx  mktexnam  updmap.cfg
cp227.tcx il1-t1.tcx   macce-t1.tcx  mktexnam.opt  viscii-t5.tcx
cp852-cs.tcx  il2-cs.tcx   maz-pl.tcxmktexupd
cp852-pl.tcx  il2-pl.tcx   mktex.cnf natural.tcx

which as you fully know, it doesn't help

What is TeX Live infrastructure doing is the question

It's besides the point to call out ./tlmgr install context here because
 mtx is no longer there anyway 

for what's worth

Welcome to TeX Live!

See ../texlive/2023/index.html for links to documentation.
The TeX Live web site (https://tug.org/texlive/) contains any updates and 
corrections. TeX Live is a joint project 

[NTG-context] /usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory; ~/context/tex is not a valid TEXROOT path; no file plain.tex

[Carlos via ntg-context]

I'm just following some of the standalone installation instructions
as per the wiki alongside  a TeX Live installation,  but there are a
few things that don't add up or I can't seem to add them up :).

first, while I was trying to mtxrun --generate it returned

/usr/bin/env texlua no such file or directory

So I thought heck, perhaps by creating a symbolic link we'll call it
a day, but that wasn't enough, nope.

This is is circa 21st century ladies and gentlemen!

so I thought, alright, since there seems ot be a a problem with texlua,
let's also add it to path somehow.

So with that out of the way, we'll move on to the next step and change
to a directory and try to call out mtxrun --generate again

It returns:

mtxrun --generate resolvers   | resolving | variable 'SELFAUTOLOC'
set to '/home/ce/context/bin' resolvers   | resolving | variable
'SELFAUTODIR' set to '/home/ce/context' resolvers   | resolving
| variable 'SELFAUTOPARENT' set to '/home/ce' resolvers   |
resolving | variable 'TEXMFCNF' set to '' resolvers   |
resolving | variable 'TEXMF' set to '' resolvers   | resolving
| variable 'TEXOS' set to 'context' resolvers   | resolving
| resolvers   | resolving | using configuration specification
'home:texmf/web2c;{selfautoloc:,selfautoloc:/share/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoloc:/share/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoloc:/share/texmf/web2c,selfautoloc:/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoloc:/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoloc:/texmf/web2c,selfautodir:,selfautodir:/share/texmf-local/web2c,selfautodir:/share/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautodir:/share/texmf/web2c,selfautodir:/texmf-local/web2c,selfautodir:/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautodir:/texmf/web2c,$SELFAUTOGRANDPARENT/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoparent:,selfautoparent:/share/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoparent:/share/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoparent:/share/texmf/web2c,selfautoparent:/texmf-local/web2c,selfautoparent:/texmf-dist/web2c,selfautoparent:/texmf/web2c}'
resolvers   | resolving | resolvers   | resolving | looking
for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path '/home/ce/texmf/web2c'
from specification 'home:texmf/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on weird path
'/home/ce/context/bin' from specification 'selfautoloc:'
resolvers   | resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua'
on given path '/home/ce/context/bin/share/texmf-local/web2c'
from specification 'selfautoloc:/share/texmf-local/web2c'
resolvers   | resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua'
on given path '/home/ce/context/bin/share/texmf-dist/web2c'
from specification 'selfautoloc:/share/texmf-dist/web2c'
resolvers   | resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua'
on given path '/home/ce/context/bin/share/texmf/web2c' from
specification 'selfautoloc:/share/texmf/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'/home/ce/context/bin/texmf-local/web2c' from specification
'selfautoloc:/texmf-local/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'/home/ce/context/bin/texmf-dist/web2c' from specification
'selfautoloc:/texmf-dist/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given
path '/home/ce/context/bin/texmf/web2c' from specification
'selfautoloc:/texmf/web2c' resolvers   | resolving | looking
for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on weird path '/home/ce/context'
from specification 'selfautodir:' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'/home/ce/context/share/texmf-local/web2c' from specification
'selfautodir:/share/texmf-local/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'/home/ce/context/share/texmf-dist/web2c' from specification
'selfautodir:/share/texmf-dist/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'/home/ce/context/share/texmf/web2c' from specification
'selfautodir:/share/texmf/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'/home/ce/context/texmf-local/web2c' from specification
'selfautodir:/texmf-local/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given
path '/home/ce/context/texmf-dist/web2c' from specification
'selfautodir:/texmf-dist/web2c' resolvers   | resolving | looking
for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path '/home/ce/context/texmf/web2c'
from specification 'selfautodir:/texmf/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given path
'$SELFAUTOGRANDPARENT/texmf-local/web2c' from specification
'$SELFAUTOGRANDPARENT/texmf-local/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on weird path
'/home/ce' from specification 'selfautoparent:' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given
path '/home/ce/share/texmf-local/web2c' from specification
'selfautoparent:/share/texmf-local/web2c' resolvers   |
resolving | looking for regular 'texmfcnf.lua' on given
path 

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 10:41:53AM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 4/1/2023 11:21 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 10:22:49PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> > > On 3/31/2023 10:08 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > sure, why should it, you want lucida so better quit with an error than
> > > > > kicking in some font; actually cmr math fonts have been obsoleted for 
> > > > > way
> > > > > over a decade by latin modern math fonts in 32 bit font engines
> > > 
> > > Font loading and processing time can be mosty neglected so these 16 
> > > seconds
> > > come from something else, maybe there are ways to trace file access. 
> > > Another
> > > possibility is that your fonts are not cached in which case every run will
> > > involve parsing the otf / ttf and producing whatever resources needed
> > > (normally cached).
> > 
> > interesting. Earlier as the output was showing
> > 
> > > mkiv lua stats  > loaded patterns: en::1, load time: 0.000
> > > mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: lucidabrightregular.otf, 
> > > lucidasansregular.otf, latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman10-regular.otf
> > 
> > you asked
> > 
> > > so why not use lucida math fonts?
> > 
> > which is a valid question but nevertheless unsettling in that 
> > lmodern-regular may nat have been called out. I fully understand the 
> > inclusion of a latinmodern-math in it as a lucidamath was not previously 
> > available but I ponder at the idea and involuntary implementation  of 
> > having lmroman along the pack. Why? If this is TeX doings, or misdoings 
> > (depending how one looks at it), it clearly shows to me that TeX also 
> > restricts my freedom to use whatever font I may deem necessary. Don't you 
> > think? You can probably disagree with me here, or anyone from the TeX 
> > community can, but the roman last was imposed deliberately upon. Someoe may 
> > also give a lengthy explanation but that would be just hogwash in thee very 
> > end .
> 
> The fact that a file is loaded doesn't mean that it is used. In fact there
> is some fallback loading going on because explaining when nothing gets
> typeset or why \nullfont is used which results in missing chars messages is
> a waste of time.
> 
> It has nothing to do with restrictions: tex will load any font you want it.
> But for instance when you turn on some tracing the macro package can load a
> font it needs. Indirectly you get what you ask for.
> 

You're right about that. My mistake. Somehow monospaced had been previously 
defined and I hadn't even noticed it . 

I think I got it (sort of) figured for what I want it so far.

The latest stats are

mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 5 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
lucidabrightdemiitalic.otf, lucidabrightitalic.otf, lucidabrightregular.otf, 
lucidasansregular.otf
mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 17 instances, 
10 shared in backend, 3 common vectors, 7 common hashes, load time 0.413 
seconds 
mkiv lua stats  > math tweaking time: 0.162 seconds, 24 math goodie tables

which is pretty much what I was looking for, except the math font issue. Thank 
you! 

While I was trying to play with it a bit, I noticed a problem with the tfb and 
tfc resizing  in math mode

The only mention of anything similar happened back in 2009 (but then again this 
was with mkii). There may be more similar issues in the list. I just didn't 
have the time to look for it.

https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg40224.html

But anyhow, the following did the trick , which I found it convenient really. 
But I don't use math mode, although someone else might, it's intuitive, and 
does the job 

\startmidaligned
$\tfc a + \overbracket{b + c} + \underbracket{d + e} + \doublebracket{f + g} + 
h$
\stopmidaligned

\startformula
\int_{\infty}
\stopformula
 


> I bet you didn't explicitly ask for e.g. english hyphentation patterns
> either but still got them, but tex will happily let you use polish ones
> instead.
> 
> Of course the best remedy against any automatism is to just start with
> initex and implement from scratch.
> 
> In the above case: just add \type {foo} and you might see another font you
> didn't ask for / set up.
> 
> > > > I was actually thinking to ask you about that, and by falling back to 
> > > > cmr math font that perhaps would expedite loading time along the way.
> > > 
> > > These fonts are small (only huge cjk fonts with tens of thousands of 
> > > glyphs
> > > or fonts with hundreds of accumulated features

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 10:22:49PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/31/2023 10:08 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > > sure, why should it, you want lucida so better quit with an error than
> > > kicking in some font; actually cmr math fonts have been obsoleted for way
> > > over a decade by latin modern math fonts in 32 bit font engines
> 
> Font loading and processing time can be mosty neglected so these 16 seconds
> come from something else, maybe there are ways to trace file access. Another
> possibility is that your fonts are not cached in which case every run will
> involve parsing the otf / ttf and producing whatever resources needed
> (normally cached).

interesting. Earlier as the output was showing 

> mkiv lua stats  > loaded patterns: en::1, load time: 0.000
> mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: lucidabrightregular.otf, 
> lucidasansregular.otf, latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman10-regular.otf

you asked 

> so why not use lucida math fonts?

which is a valid question but nevertheless unsettling in that lmodern-regular 
may nat have been called out. I fully understand the inclusion of a 
latinmodern-math in it as a lucidamath was not previously available but I 
ponder at the idea and involuntary implementation  of having lmroman along the 
pack. Why? If this is TeX doings, or misdoings (depending how one looks at it), 
it clearly shows to me that TeX also restricts my freedom to use whatever font 
I may deem necessary. Don't you think? You can probably disagree with me here, 
or anyone from the TeX community can, but the roman last was imposed 
deliberately upon. Someoe may also give a lengthy explanation but that would be 
just hogwash in thee very end . 


> 
> > I was actually thinking to ask you about that, and by falling back to cmr 
> > math font that perhaps would expedite loading time along the way.
> 
> These fonts are small (only huge cjk fonts with tens of thousands of glyphs
> or fonts with hundreds of accumulated features might have some impact but
> even then not in the final embedding stage).

Yeah. I guess. 

I can also have 

mkiv lua stats  > loaded patterns: en::1, load time: 0.000
mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 3 files: lucidabrightmathsymbol.ttf, 
lucidanewmathitalic.ttf, lucidabrightregular.otf
mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 6 instances, 3 
shared in backend, 1 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load time 16.723 seconds 

but that loading time gets back at me as the culprit sweet reminder of not 
using cmr then. 

You know the story by now Hans. I can load any font but not speed things up. 
Not without going through cmr. It is what it is. 

> 
> Whan talking fonts, enabling for instance expansion (hz) and protusion might
> increase runtime a little. In practice, enabling for instance synctex has a
> bigger imnpacts on performance than handling fonts.
>  Hans
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
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> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___

-- 
There's got to be more to life than compile-and-go.

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 04:40:27PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/31/2023 1:40 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > > so why not use lucida math fonts?
> > 
> > I have. But only with a couple of math fonts. I don't have all these fonts.
> 
> It really pays off to buy the official lucida opentype package.

I'll do that eventually. 
> 
> > mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 3 files: lucidanewmathitalic.ttf, 
> > lucidanewmathsymbol.ttf, lucidabrightregular.otf
> > mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 6 
> > instances, 3 shared in backend, 1 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load 
> > time 16.733 seconds
> 
> I never heard of these math ones. Did you get these from yandytex (no longer
> around) or TUG (the official distributer of lucida opentype math)? Anyway,
> as we fine tune math fonts for sure you get suboptimal results (or even
> wrong output). Mikael and I put quite a bit of care into lucida opentype
> math.
> 
> > I do agree with you in that that loading time is perhaps unacceptable but…
> > ...
> > You ought to specify that must be only after subsequent callbacks. I just 
> > tried it with a one liner file of \setupbodyfont[lucida] and (looking 
> > around in disbelief) it took a whooping ahem
> > fonts   > names > skipped files: 164
> > fonts   > names > duplicate files  : 164
> > fonts   > names > total scan time  : 16.487 seconds
> 
> I have no clue, unless that relates to your font path including some home
> dir which gets scanned every time for whatever reason and that has tens of
> thousands of files. I can process the 350+ page luametatex manual twice in
> these 16 seconds and that one loads quite some (also math) fonts and my
> laptop is not a fancy 2023 one
> 
> > before it produced even error messages.
> > 
> > beating me for 2 seconds. Great. And then it restricted my freedom by saying
> > 
> > «Sorry, but I can't typeset math unless various parameters have been set. 
> > This is
> > normally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots. 
> > Your font
> > set is lacking at least the parameter mentioned earlier.»
> 
> that's pretty clear: you don't load a math font at all, maybe some text font
> pretending it is math
> 
> > Sorry, but sorry doesn't cut it here.
> 
> it does: no proper math font found so reason to complain
> 
> > I guess it must have been referring to  \strc_formulas_place_number 
> > \strc_formulas_flush_number \dostarttagged \t!formulacontent \empty 
> > \dotagregisterformula \c_strc_formulas_n \csname \e!stop \formulaparameter 
> > \c!alternative \v!formula \endcsname
> 
> dunno, that's numbering, not math
> 
> > Okay. So I tried another file. This time around with only
> > 
> > \setupbodyfont[lucida]
> > 
> > \starttext
> > $ test $
> > \stoptext
> > 
> > and then the output message was «Somewhere in the math formula just ended, 
> > you used the stated character from an
> > undefined font family. For example, plain TeX doesn't allow \it or \sl in
> > subscripts. Proceed, and I'll try to forget that I needed that character.»
> > 
> > There's not even a fallback to cmr or any other font.
> 
> sure, why should it, you want lucida so better quit with an error than
> kicking in some font; actually cmr math fonts have been obsoleted for way
> over a decade by latin modern math fonts in 32 bit font engines

I was actually thinking to ask you about that, and by falling back to cmr math 
font that perhaps would expedite loading time along the way. 

Thank you for the info on that last sentence. I didn't know. 
> 
> > There was not even a personalized touch in the output. That message sounds 
> > like one of these new GPT-chat features. Dry. When I read that «Proceed, 
> > and I'll try to forget it…» part the first thing I thought was: yeah, I'll 
> > proceed by removing that file altogether and you'll forget it for sure .
> 
> that message is part of 'reference tex the program' for over 40 years so if
> chatgpt would come up with it, it would do so by having parsed plenty of tex
> sources instead of inventing it (and when it comes to answering tex related
> questions chargpt is pretty unreliable, but that's another topic)
> 
> > But instaed I looked at it and though to myself «how much has changed?!» In 
> > plain TeX (I have forgotten it a bit) but I can still type
> > > \par
> > > $test$
> > > \end
> > 
> > and it'll produce a dvi file in return.
> 
> a lot has changed: opentyp

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 12:48:53AM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/28/2023 7:05 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 03:43:47PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> > > On 3/27/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > > 
> > > > mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
> > > > lmroman10-regular.otf, lucidabrightregular.ttf, lucidasansregular.ttf
> > > 
> > > i admit never having seen lucida ttf files (but when opentype ttf files 
> > > are
> > > used with an afm file present then no map files are needed at all because
> > > we're in wide font mode and encidings are ignored)
> > > 
> > 
> > I hadn't either.  But everything aligned and thought it was nice.
> > 
> > You're right that loading a map file is not needed, but If you're concerned 
> > about afm files then bring these files over to the working directory, and 
> > then mtxrun --generate the same
> > 
> > So yes. Even though the file was something like (intended originally to 
> > load the map file, correct?) but since the map file is no longer necessary 
> > then afm should suffice
> > 
> > \starttypescript [serif] [lucida] [texnansi]
> > 
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold][texnansi-lucidabrightdemibold][encoding=texnansi]
> > 
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic][texnansi-lucidabrightdemiitalic][encoding=texnansi]
> > 
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic][texnansi-lucidabrightitalic][encoding=texnansi]
> > 
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular][texnansi-lucidabrightregular][encoding=texnansi]
> > \stoptypescript
> 
> these encodings only make sense with mkii (in which case the map file tells
> pdftex if a ttf or pfb file is used)
> 
> in mkiv encodings are ignored,  when a ttf/otf file is used no afm is read,
> and when a pfb fils is used the afm is used (ligature adn kerning info etc)
> but a wide font is assembled
> 
> (when a ttf is used the lucidaot typescript file can serve as example)
> 
> in mkxl we assume the otf files sold by TUG are used (recently the math font
> was updated)
> 
> > and not with the file specification as in:
> > 
> > 
> > \starttypescript [mylucidaserif] % or mylucidasans
> >\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular][file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> >\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> >\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightBold]   [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> > \stoptypescript
> > 
> > and \setups[font:fallback:serif:sans] wouldn't be needed either
> > 
> > you'd end up with
> 
> in mkxl (lmtx)
> 
> \setupbodyfont[lucida]
> 
> will load open type definitions
> 
> > mkiv lua stats  > loaded patterns: en::1, load time: 0.000
> > mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: lucidabrightregular.otf, 
> > lucidasansregular.otf, latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman10-regular.otf
> 
> so why not use lucida math fonts?

I have. But only with a couple of math fonts. I don't have all these fonts. 

mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 3 files: lucidanewmathitalic.ttf, 
lucidanewmathsymbol.ttf, lucidabrightregular.otf
mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 6 instances, 3 
shared in backend, 1 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load time 16.733 seconds 

I do agree with you in that that loading time is perhaps unacceptable but…
> 
> > > > mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 12 
> > > > instances, 5 shared in backend, 3 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load 
> > > > time 16.898 seconds
> 
> > > i assume that you don't get this 16 seconds load time each run
> > 
> > You're correct. That's why you recommended to use otf first .
> even with type one fonts 17 sec load time for a few fonts is not okay, i
> expect more something like:
> 
> mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 3 files: lucidabrightmathot.otf,
> lucidabrightot.otf, lucidasansot.otf
> mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 14
> instances, 10 shared in backend, 6 common vectors, 4 common hashes, load
> time 0.161 seconds

You ought to specify that must be only after subsequent callbacks. I just tried 
it with a one liner file of \setupbodyfont[lucida] and (looking around in 
disbelief) it took a whooping ahem 
fonts   > names > skipped files: 164
fonts   > names > duplicate files  : 164
fonts   > names > total scan time  : 16.487 seconds

before it produced even error messages.

beating me for 2 seconds. Great. And then i

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 03:43:47PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/27/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> > mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
> > lmroman10-regular.otf, lucidabrightregular.ttf, lucidasansregular.ttf
> 
> i admit never having seen lucida ttf files (but when opentype ttf files are
> used with an afm file present then no map files are needed at all because
> we're in wide font mode and encidings are ignored)
> 

I hadn't either.  But everything aligned and thought it was nice. 

You're right that loading a map file is not needed, but If you're concerned 
about afm files then bring these files over to the working directory, and then 
mtxrun --generate the same 

So yes. Even though the file was something like (intended originally to load 
the map file, correct?) but since the map file is no longer necessary then afm 
should suffice

\starttypescript [serif] [lucida] [texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold][texnansi-lucidabrightdemibold][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic][texnansi-lucidabrightdemiitalic][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic][texnansi-lucidabrightitalic][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular][texnansi-lucidabrightregular][encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [sans] [lucida] [texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansDemiBold][texnansi-lucidasansdemibold][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansDemiOblique][texnansi-lucidasansdemioblique][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansOblique][texnansi-lucidasansoblique][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansRegular][texnansi-lucidasansregular][encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [mono] [lucida] [texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansTypewriterBold][texnansi-lucidatypewriterbold][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansTypewriterBoldOblique][texnansi-lucidayypewriterboldoblique][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansTypewriterOblique][texnansi-lucidatypewriteroblique][encoding=texnansi]

\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansTypewriterRegular][texnansi-lucidatypewriterregular][encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [lucida] [name]
\usetypescript[serif][fallback]
\definefontsynonym[Serif]  [LucidaBrightRegular]
\definefontsynonym[SerifBold]  [LucidaBrightDemi]
\definefontsynonym[SerifItalic][LucidaBrightItalic]
\definefontsynonym[SerifBoldItalic][LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [sans] [lucida] [name]
\usetypescript[sans][fallback]
\definefontsynonym[Sans][LucidaSansRegular]
\definefontsynonym[SansItalic]  [LucidaSansOblique]
\definefontsynonym[SansBold][LucidaSansDemiBold]
\definefontsynonym[SansBoldItalic]  [LucidaSansDemiOblique]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [mono] [lucida] [name]
\usetypescript[mono][fallback]
\definefontsynonym[Mono]
[LucidaSansTypewriterRegular]
\definefontsynonym[MonoItalic]  [LucidaSansTypewriterOblique]
\definefontsynonym[MonoBold][LucidaSansTypewriterBold]
\definefontsynonym[MonoBoldItalic]  
[LucidaSansTypewriterBoldOblique]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [Lucida] 
\definetypeface[MyLucida][rm][serif][lucida][default][encoding=texnansi]
\definetypeface[MyLucida][ss][sans][lucida][default][encoding=texnansi]
\definetypeface[MyLucida][tt][mono][lucida][default][encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript



and not with the file specification as in:


\starttypescript [mylucidaserif] % or mylucidasans
  \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular][file:LucidaBrightRegular]
  \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
  \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightBold]   [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
\stoptypescript

and \setups[font:fallback:serif:sans] wouldn't be needed either 

you'd end up with  


mkiv lua stats  > loaded patterns: en::1, load time: 0.000
mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: lucidabrightregular.otf, 
lucidasansregular.otf, latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman10-regular.otf
mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 12 instances, 5 
shared in backend, 3 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load time 0.306 seconds 
mkiv lua stats  > math tweaking time: 0.055 seconds, 12 math goodie tables


> > mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 12 
> > instances, 5 shared in backend, 3 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load 
> > time 16.898 seconds
> > mkiv lua stats  > math tweaking time: 0.102 seconds, 12 math goodie tables
> > mkiv lua stats  > font embedding time:

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 09:26:36PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/25/2023 8:55 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > Hello list:
> > 
> > This is under a fresh TeXLive installation. Sort as to put aside any 
> > texlive prepackaged issues.
> > 
> > And the followign lines is the output of the error I've been having with 
> > the call of context on a recent texlive installation by both mtxrun 
> > --generate and luatools --generate right after.
> 
> there i no need to use luatools (it's something old from the early days)
> 
> what does
> 
>   mtxrun --generate --verbose
> 
> report (whre does it fail)
> 
> > 57 \starttext
> > 58
> > 59 \usetypescriptfile[type-lucida]
> > 60 \usetypescript[Lucida][texnansi]
> > 61 >>  \setupbodyfont[MyLucida, 10pt]
> > 62
> > 63 \input zapf
> > 64
> > 65 \input tufte
> 
> fwiw, lucida type one makes no sense any more because the opentype version
> is way better (and in the updated math setup in lmtx we didn't even look at
> it)
> 
> > Is LuaLaTeX behaving the same way?
> > 
> > Answer: no.
> 
> no surprise because it doesn't use the same setup
> 
> what cache path does
> 
>   mtxrun --variables
> 
> report
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
Thanks a lot Hans! Of course your sugggestion by using otf rather than going 
through the ttf as it may be deprecated works. No doubt. 

But look at the output of only a few lines.. This is exactly what I wanted to 
see!: 

system  >6: filename=texnansi-bandh-lucida.map filetype=map 
format=map 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/map/pdftex/context/texnansi-bandh-lucida.map
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/map/pdftex/context/texnansi-bandh-lucida.map
 usedmethod=database

system  >   13: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightDemiBold.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightDemiBold.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightDemiBold.afm
 usedmethod=direct

system  >   14: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightDemiItalic.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightDemiItalic.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightDemiItalic.afm
 usedmethod=direct

system  >   15: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightItalic.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightItalic.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightItalic.afm
 usedmethod=direct


system  >   16: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightRegular.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightRegular.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaBrightRegular.afm
 usedmethod=direct

system  >   17: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansDemiBold.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansDemiBold.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansDemiBold.afm
 usedmethod=direct

system  >   18: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansDemiOblique.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansDemiOblique.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansDemiOblique.afm
 usedmethod=direct
system  >   19: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansOblique.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansOblique.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansOblique.afm
 usedmethod=direct

system  >   20: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansRegular.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansRegular.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaSansRegular.afm
 usedmethod=direct

system  >   21: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaTypewriterBold.afm
 
foundname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaTypewriterBold.afm
 
fullname=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local/fonts/afm/bandh/lucida/LucidaTypewriterBold.afm
 usedmethod=direct

system  >   22: 
filename=/usr/local/texlive/2023

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 01:04:30PM +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 
wrote:
> Am 25.03.23 um 23:42 schrieb Carlos via ntg-context:
> 
> > > > fonts   | names | 3092 afm files checked,   okay
> > > > fonts   | names | identifying tree font files with suffix 'AFM'
> > > > fonts   | names | scanning path 
> > > > '/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-config' for AFM files
> 
> > > > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path '/home/ce'
> > > > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path 
> > > > '/usr/share/fonts'
> > > > fonts   | names | globbing path '/home/ce/**.otf'
> 
> There is something strange here.
> Is maybe TEXMFHOME set?
> 
> Since you use a TeX live installation, some other texmfcnf.lua or texmf.cnf
> might interfere.
> Look into /usr/local/texlive/2023/
> 
> Since it scans everything in your home directory, maybe TEXMFHOME or
> OSFONTDIR is set to ~ (instead ~/texmf) there?
> 
> Hraban

I created an entirely different folder and placed the otf files right in it 
following Hans' advice on using directly otf rather than ttf 

The latter was used successfully under Void TeXLive prepackaged 2021 using a 
loadmapfile[texnansi-bandh-lucida.map] 

There was a texmfcnf.lua under the TEXMFLOCAL variable, and another one under 
TEXMFDIST. Got rid of the former but haven't tested it enough.

Thanks for bringing it up! 

It compiled fine, saved some rendering presumably from missing a  few otf files 
that I didn't have under Alpine. 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___

-- 
!07/11 PDP a ni deppart m'I  !pleH

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

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Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 09:26:36PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/25/2023 8:55 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > Hello list:
> > 
> > This is under a fresh TeXLive installation. Sort as to put aside any 
> > texlive prepackaged issues.
> > 
> > And the followign lines is the output of the error I've been having with 
> > the call of context on a recent texlive installation by both mtxrun 
> > --generate and luatools --generate right after.
> 
> there i no need to use luatools (it's something old from the early days)
> 
> what does
> 
>   mtxrun --generate --verbose
> 
> report (whre does it fail)
> 
> > 57 \starttext
> > 58
> > 59 \usetypescriptfile[type-lucida]
> > 60 \usetypescript[Lucida][texnansi]
> > 61 >>  \setupbodyfont[MyLucida, 10pt]
> > 62
> > 63 \input zapf
> > 64
> > 65 \input tufte
> 
> fwiw, lucida type one makes no sense any more because the opentype version
> is way better (and in the updated math setup in lmtx we didn't even look at
> it)
> 

Hans, your advice for using otf fonts worked. Thanks. 

system  > lua > compiling 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/1b4da46d1f340757f9984eae810b1464/fonts/streams/lucidabrightregularotf-1.tma'
 into 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/1b4da46d1f340757f9984eae810b1464/fonts/streams/lucidabrightregularotf-1.tmd'
system  > lua > dumping 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/1b4da46d1f340757f9984eae810b1464/fonts/streams/lucidabrightregularotf-1.tma'
 into 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/1b4da46d1f340757f9984eae810b1464/fonts/streams/lucidabrightregularotf-1.tmd'
 stripped

Not how I wanted it originally as in Void Linux with texnansi encoding and a 
TeXLive2021 prepackaged

mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: lucidabrightregular.otf, 
lucidasansregular.otf, latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman12-regular.otf
mkiv lua stats  > font engine: otf 3.113, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 12 instances, 6 
shared in backend, 4 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load time 0.413 seconds 
mkiv lua stats  > used platform: linux-64, type: unix, binary subtree: usr
mkiv lua stats  > used engine: luatex version: 1.13, functionality level: 7418, 
banner: this is luatex, version 1.13.0 (tex live 2021/voidlinux)
mkiv lua stats  > used hash slots: 48145 of 65536 + 20
mkiv lua stats  > lua properties: engine: lua 5.3, used memory: 158 MB, ctx: 
158 MB, max: unknown MB, hash chars: min(64,40), symbol mask: utf (τεχ)


Or with otf under Alpine. but yes. otf rather than ttf  

backend > fonts > width units in 'SGVYNL+LucidaBright-Italic' are 2048, 
forcing 1000 instead
backend > fonts > width units in 'QRVECH+LucidaBright' are 2048, 
forcing 1000 instead
system  > start used files
system  > text: atestinlucida-OTF
system  > stop used files
system  > start used files
 


> > Is LuaLaTeX behaving the same way?
> > 
> > Answer: no.
> 
> no surprise because it doesn't use the same setup
> 
> what cache path does
> 
>   mtxrun --variables
> 
> report
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___

-- 
The New Testament offers the basis for modern computer coding theory,
in the form of an affirmation of the binary number system.

But let your communication be Yea, yea; nay, nay:
for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
-- Matthew 5:37

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 03:21:35PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/26/2023 3:08 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 01:04:30PM +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm via 
> > ntg-context wrote:
> > > Am 25.03.23 um 23:42 schrieb Carlos via ntg-context:
> > > 
> > > > > > fonts   | names | 3092 afm files checked,   okay
> > > > > > fonts   | names | identifying tree font files with suffix 
> > > > > > 'AFM'
> > > > > > fonts   | names | scanning path 
> > > > > > '/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-config' for AFM files
> > > 
> > > > > > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path 
> > > > > > '/home/ce'
> > > > > > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path 
> > > > > > '/usr/share/fonts'
> > > > > > fonts   | names | globbing path '/home/ce/**.otf'
> > > 
> > > There is something strange here.
> > > Is maybe TEXMFHOME set?
> > > 
> > > Since you use a TeX live installation, some other texmfcnf.lua or 
> > > texmf.cnf
> > > might interfere.
> > > Look into /usr/local/texlive/2023/
> > 
> > I'll check again to make sure. But keep in mind this issue predates the 
> > official TeX Live installation . I've been using the distro prepackaged for 
> > a while. And yes. It's always been there. Sort of like, it came with the 
> > system :)
> > > 
> > > Since it scans everything in your home directory, maybe TEXMFHOME or
> > > OSFONTDIR is set to ~ (instead ~/texmf) there?
> > 
> > But even if there was a conflict, it wouldn't justify to be scanninp up 
> > everything viciously.
> 
> Well, if fonts can be anywhere that means checking for them anywhere. TeX
> installations have some directory setup for a reason. Imagine that you set
> up the installation to include that wildcard path in TEXINPUITS then every
> run that whole tree would get scanned for a file you ask for and that is not
> in the current directory. The whole idea behind TDS and defining paths for
> specific kind of files it to limit lookups.

Hans, plesae… please, You know deep inside that the above paragraph does not 
make any sense even after writing it convincingly. The fact that fonts can be 
anywhere DOES NOT mean that a program whatever that program may be is following 
whatever TDS sets in place or is presumably setting in place.. or much less — 
regardless of fonts' location,  that a program out there needs to act 
erratically. Careless. To say the least. Bear with me in this one (I'm just a 
bit tired):

Look at the same issue from another system perspective. I said system 
perspective because simply put there is so much one can do whenever you're 
dealing with a multiuser program such as TeX Live. Bear wiht me here:

I have Void Linux on a spare system. Let's put aside for a second the 
inconsistencies surrounding texmfcnf.lua there. We can get back to it later And 
there's plenty of it taht can also be said.

Do you know what is the method used to handle this problem? By folder.

If I were to invoke mtxrun --script cache --erase it should behave accordingly. 
Or I'd expect it to act accordingly. The same with mtxrun --script font 
--reload Of course, it doesn't help if texmfcnf.lua sets anything else by doing 
otherwise.

Does it sound far-fetched? Maybe. But it certainly makes more sense than 
looking up everything under every imaginable worktree by which presumably there 
can be fonts. Which 100 percent of the time there's none.

But What fonts are to be found on cache and headers folders? tfm, afm, otf? 
come on!

But then again. Even in Void Linux (a system for which concurrent files lookups 
seem to be working now under the right expectations) threw errors back and 
forth with both context.lua mtx-context.lua and base.lua  unknown scripts,  
before eventually getting it right. (that may be a misnomer) I ought to say I 
got it right, I guess.

Were mtxrun --generate or mtxrun --script cache --erase called out? Of course.

Which led me to read about that pesky behavior here for example:

https://tug.org/pipermail/tex-live/2022-August/048375.html

and similarly

https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/653913/context-from-texlive-2021-says-unknown-script-context-lua-or-mtx-context-lua

But the above was put aside. And there soon followed a matter-of-fact «it's not 
broken in TeX Live» statement.

Well. If looked at from that narow angle, yes, I guess. 

Recall this is with a prepackaged TeXLive or the one put out by the devs. And I 
was aware of that. Not the case here. I'm just mentioning it because that's the 
method used or what it's doing on that spare system as

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 01:04:30PM +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 
wrote:
> Am 25.03.23 um 23:42 schrieb Carlos via ntg-context:
> 
> > > > fonts   | names | 3092 afm files checked,   okay
> > > > fonts   | names | identifying tree font files with suffix 'AFM'
> > > > fonts   | names | scanning path 
> > > > '/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-config' for AFM files
> 
> > > > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path '/home/ce'
> > > > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path 
> > > > '/usr/share/fonts'
> > > > fonts   | names | globbing path '/home/ce/**.otf'
> 
> There is something strange here.
> Is maybe TEXMFHOME set?
> 
> Since you use a TeX live installation, some other texmfcnf.lua or texmf.cnf
> might interfere.
> Look into /usr/local/texlive/2023/

I'll check again to make sure. But keep in mind this issue predates the 
official TeX Live installation . I've been using the distro prepackaged for a 
while. And yes. It's always been there. Sort of like, it came with the system 
:) 
> 
> Since it scans everything in your home directory, maybe TEXMFHOME or
> OSFONTDIR is set to ~ (instead ~/texmf) there?

But even if there was a conflict, it wouldn't justify to be scanninp up 
everything viciously. 

So far I've had to move about 7-8 folders. About 6 of them are owned by root, 
the rest are owned by root but symlinked to user. 

And to top it off, after doing so, it didn't stop there, heck no, it also 
wanted to snoop in a folder with cache and headers. 

To be honest. I woudlnt' know what to make of it. If it's simply looking into 
the permissions of the directories first,  or the fact that it has a colon 
separated pattern. But. Then again. The other folders didn't have it. 

I'll let you know. 

Thank you Hraban 

Carlos
> Hraban
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
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Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 11:09:18PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/25/2023 10:36 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 09:45:25PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> > > On 3/25/2023 8:55 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > > 
> > > >   
> > > > ...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1030: in 
> > > > upvalue 'walk_tree'
> > > Maybe your OSFONTDIR is pointing to empty. Does
> > 
> > Good call. Thank you for the reminder Hans. But no. That variable was set 
> > long ago . Even appended it to both the bash initialization file and also 
> > under /etc/profile (just in case here). Alpine uses ash so shells must be 
> > changed
> > 
> > > 
> > >mtxrun --script font --reload
> > > 
> > fonts   | names | 3092 afm files checked,   okay
> > fonts   | names | identifying tree font files with suffix 'AFM'
> > fonts   | names | scanning path 
> > '/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-config' for AFM files
> > fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
> > fonts   | names | scanning path '/home/ce/texmf' for AFM files
> > fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
> > fonts   | names | scanning path 
> > '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-config' for AFM files
> > fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
> > fonts   | names | scanning path '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-var' 
> > for AFM files
> > fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
> > fonts   | names | scanning path 
> > '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local' for AFM files
> > fonts   | names | 24 AFM files checked,   okay
> > fonts   | names | scanning path 
> > '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist' for AFM files
> > fonts   | names | 3092 AFM files checked,   okay
> > fonts   | names | 6232 tree files identified,  14 skipped,  14 
> > duplicates,  6218 hash entries added,  runtime 8.458 seconds
> > fonts   | names | identifying system font files with suffix 'otf'
> > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path '/home/ce'
> > fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path 
> > '/usr/share/fonts'
> > fonts   | names | globbing path '/home/ce/**.otf'
> > 
> > lua error : function call: 
> > /usr/local/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linuxmusl/mtxrun.lua:649: cannot open 
> > /home/ce/cache/headers/imaps:@gmail@imap.gmail.com/[Gmail]/.: 
> > Permission denied
> 
> hm, but is home/ce/cache a path where there are fonts to be found? something

Not to my knownledge. It's just that that particular folder only has root 
permissions and not for the user. 

Recursively that is. Like you said. Only not with fonts.

> sets that path to be a fully recursive font dir
> 
> can you set OSFONTDIR to '/usr/share/fonts'
> 

it's already set 

echo $OSFONTDIR
/usr/share/fonts

> (personally i never use system fonts, i always put copies in
> texmf-fonts/fonts/data becasue system fonts can change or disappear)
> 

I'll probably do that. 

> > Recall that the other folders owned by root had to be moved out of the way
> > 
> > So it seems it wasn't enough, nope. Now it wants access elsewhere
> > 
> > bottom line: it wants root permissions or else fails flat out
> 
> well, it's not entirely clear what generates the permission denied; i can
> check for the home/ce being readable but doing that for every regular file
> below that would add lots of slow checks and i'm not even sure if it would
> fix it; i can try to check nested dirs but that then also obscures possible
> issues

You would know better than I do here. 

I somehow postponed this current issue thinking that a fresh TeX Live 
installation would resolve it once and for all. But no. 
> 
> Hans
>  -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://conte

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 09:45:25PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/25/2023 8:55 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> 
> >  ...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1030: 
> > in upvalue 'walk_tree'
> Maybe your OSFONTDIR is pointing to empty. Does

Good call. Thank you for the reminder Hans. But no. That variable was set long 
ago . Even appended it to both the bash initialization file and also under 
/etc/profile (just in case here). Alpine uses ash so shells must be changed 

> 
>   mtxrun --script font --reload
> 
fonts   | names | 3092 afm files checked,   okay
fonts   | names | identifying tree font files with suffix 'AFM'
fonts   | names | scanning path '/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-config' 
for AFM files
fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
fonts   | names | scanning path '/home/ce/texmf' for AFM files
fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
fonts   | names | scanning path '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-config' 
for AFM files
fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
fonts   | names | scanning path '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-var' for 
AFM files
fonts   | names | 0 AFM files checked,   okay
fonts   | names | scanning path '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local' 
for AFM files
fonts   | names | 24 AFM files checked,   okay
fonts   | names | scanning path '/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist' 
for AFM files
fonts   | names | 3092 AFM files checked,   okay
fonts   | names | 6232 tree files identified,  14 skipped,  14 
duplicates,  6218 hash entries added,  runtime 8.458 seconds
fonts   | names | identifying system font files with suffix 'otf'
fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path '/home/ce'
fonts   | names | variable 'OSFONTDIR' specifies path '/usr/share/fonts'
fonts   | names | globbing path '/home/ce/**.otf'

lua error : function call: 
/usr/local/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linuxmusl/mtxrun.lua:649: cannot open 
/home/ce/cache/headers/imaps:@gmail@imap.gmail.com/[Gmail]/.: Permission 
denied

Recall that the other folders owned by root had to be moved out of the way

So it seems it wasn't enough, nope. Now it wants access elsewhere

bottom line: it wants root permissions or else fails flat out

Even with sudo privileges the best it can do is:

resolvers   | formats | executing runner 'run luametatex format': 
/usr/local/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linuxmusl/luametatex 
--jobname="./atestinlucida-context-55.mkiv" 
--fmt=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/formats/luametatex/cont-en.fmt
 
--lua=/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/formats/luametatex/cont-en.lui
  --c:currentrun=1 --c:fulljobname="./atestinlucida-context-55.mkiv" 
--c:input="./atestinlucida-context-55.mkiv" --c:kindofrun=1 --c:maxnofruns=9 
--c:texmfbinpath="/usr/local/texlive/2023/bin/x86_64-linuxmusl"
system  > 
system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2023.03.10 12:15 LMTX  fmt: 2023.3.25  int: 
english/english
system  > 
system  > 'cont-new.mkxl' loaded
open source > level 1,  order 1,  name 
'/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/cont-new.mkxl'
system  > beware: some patches loaded from cont-new.mkiv
close source> level 1,  order 1,  name 
'/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/cont-new.mkxl'
system  > files > jobname './atestinlucida-context-55',  input 
'./atestinlucida-context-55.mkiv',  result './atestinlucida-context-55'
fonts   > latin modern fonts are not preloaded
languages   > language 'en' is active
open source > level 1,  order 2,  name './atestinlucida-context-55.mkiv'
fonts   > preloading latin modern fonts (second stage)
mathematics > tweak > 'LatinModernMath-Regular',  size 6,  math size 3,  
version 'Version 1.959' found,  version 'Version 1.958' expected
fonts   > 'fallback modern rm 12pt' is loaded
open source > level 2,  order 3,  name 
'/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/type-imp-lucida.mkiv'
close source> level 2,  order 3,  name 
'/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/type-imp-lucida.mkiv'
fonts   > defining > forced type 'otf' of 'LucidaBrightOT' not found
fonts   > defining > unable to define 'LucidaBrightOT.otf' as 
'MyLucida-10pt-rm-tf-0--0'
open source > level 2,  order 4,  name 'zapf.tex'
close source> level 2,  order 4,  name 'zapf.tex'
open source > level 2,  order 5,  name 'tufte.tex'
close source> level 2,  order 5,  name 'tufte.tex'
backend > xmp > using file 
'/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/bas

Re: [NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 09:26:36PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 3/25/2023 8:55 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
> > Hello list:
> > 
> > This is under a fresh TeXLive installation. Sort as to put aside any 
> > texlive prepackaged issues.
> > 
> > And the followign lines is the output of the error I've been having with 
> > the call of context on a recent texlive installation by both mtxrun 
> > --generate and luatools --generate right after.
> 
> there i no need to use luatools (it's something old from the early days)
> 
> what does
> 
>   mtxrun --generate --verbose

It doesn't. 

This is under the same folder in question. Recall I moved the other group owned 
files elsewhere out of the way 

This is the output 

system  | lua | compiling 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/73630a261795d9c53610a28af4550cbc.lua'
 into 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/73630a261795d9c53610a28af4550cbc.lud'
system  | lua | dumping 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/73630a261795d9c53610a28af4550cbc.lua'
 into 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/73630a261795d9c53610a28af4550cbc.lud'
 stripped
resolvers   | caching | 'files' compiled to 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/73630a261795d9c53610a28af4550cbc.lud'
resolvers   | resolving | saving tree 'selfautoparent:texmf-dist'
resolvers   | caches | hashing tree 'selfautoparent:texmf-dist',  hash 
'929f6dbc83f6d3b65dab91f1efa4aacb'
resolvers   | caching | preparing 'files' for 'selfautoparent:texmf-dist'
resolvers   | caching | category 'files',  cachename 
'selfautoparent:texmf-dist' saved in 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/929f6dbc83f6d3b65dab91f1efa4aacb.lua'
system  | lua | compiling 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/929f6dbc83f6d3b65dab91f1efa4aacb.lua'
 into 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/929f6dbc83f6d3b65dab91f1efa4aacb.lud'
system  | lua | dumping 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/929f6dbc83f6d3b65dab91f1efa4aacb.lua'
 into 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/929f6dbc83f6d3b65dab91f1efa4aacb.lud'
 stripped
resolvers   | caching | 'files' compiled to 
'/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-var/luametatex-cache/context/78ac5e3684a91334606faa581c7ce1d1/trees/929f6dbc83f6d3b65dab91f1efa4aacb.lud'
mtxrun  |
mtxrun  | elapsed lua time: 4.327 seconds



> > 58
> > 59 \usetypescriptfile[type-lucida]
> > 60 \usetypescript[Lucida][texnansi]
> > 61 >>  \setupbodyfont[MyLucida, 10pt]
> > 62
> > 63 \input zapf
> > 64
> > 65 \input tufte
> 
> fwiw, lucida type one makes no sense any more because the opentype version
> is way better (and in the updated math setup in lmtx we didn't even look at
> it)
> 

It goes throught without a problem under Void Linux. pfm and afm files on this 
one are right there in place. On this one: Alpine. It's a problem. or a given 
:) depending how one looks at it. 

> > Is LuaLaTeX behaving the same way?
> > 
> > Answer: no.
> 
> no surprise because it doesn't use the same setup
> 
> what cache path does
> 
>   mtxrun --variables
> 
> report

 mtxrun --variables
resolvers   | lists | AFMFONTS
resolvers   | lists |   env: unset
resolvers   | lists |   var: AFMFONTS
resolvers   | lists |   exp: .\{home:.texlive2023/texmf-config, home:texmf, 
!!selfautoparent:texmf-config, !!selfautoparent:texmf-var, 
!!selfautoparent:texmf-project, !!selfautoparent:texmf-fonts, 
!!selfautoparent:texmf-local, !!selfautoparent:texmf-dist}/fonts/{data, 
afm}//\/home/ce\/usr/share/fonts
resolvers   | lists |   res: .\{/home/ce/.texlive2023/texmf-config, 
/home/ce/texmf, !!/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-config, 
!!/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-var, !!/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-project, 
!!/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-fonts, !!/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-local, 
!!/usr/local/texlive/2023/texmf-dist}/fonts/{data, 
afm}//\/home/ce\/usr/share/fonts
resolvers   | lists | BIBINPUTS
resolvers   | lists |   env: unset
resolvers   | lists |   var: BIBINPUTS
resolvers   | lists |   exp: .\{home:.texlive2023/texmf-config, home:texmf, 
!!selfautoparent:texmf-config, !!selfautoparent:texmf-var, 
!!selfautoparent:texmf-project, !!selfautoparent:texmf-font

[NTG-context] registered function call [1160]:...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: Permission denied - Alpine Linux

[Carlos via ntg-context]

Hello list:

This is under a fresh TeXLive installation. Sort as to put aside any texlive 
prepackaged issues.

And the followign lines is the output of the error I've been having with the 
call of context on a recent texlive installation by both mtxrun --generate and 
luatools --generate right after.

mtxrun --script cache --erase has also been called out to no avail

registered function call [1160]: 
...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: cannot open /.: 
Permission denied
stack traceback:
[C]: in upvalue 'func'
...live/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-sandbox.lua:87: in 
function 'lfs.dir'
.../texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-dir.lua:139: in 
upvalue 'glob_pattern_table'
.../texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-dir.lua:163: in 
upvalue 'glob_pattern_table'
.../texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-dir.lua:163: in 
upvalue 'glob_pattern_table'
.../texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-dir.lua:163: in 
upvalue 'glob_pattern_table'
.../texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-dir.lua:163: in 
upvalue 'glob_pattern_table'
.../texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-dir.lua:180: in 
function <.../texlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/l-dir.lua:169>
(...tail calls...)
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1030: in 
upvalue 'walk_tree'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1190: in 
local 'method'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1152: in 
local 'traverse'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1200: in 
upvalue 'analyzefiles'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1286: in 
field 'identify'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1311: in 
field 'load'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1322: in 
field 'load'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-syn.lua:1588: in 
field 'getfilename'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:835: in 
function <...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:828>
(...tail calls...)
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:378: in 
function <...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:366>
(...tail calls...)
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:485: in 
field 'read'
...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1377: in 
function <...xlive/2023/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1234>
(...tail calls...)
51 
;definetypeface[MyLucida][rm][serif][lucida][default][encoding=texnansi]
52  \definetypeface[MyLucida][ss][sans][lucida][default][encoding=texnansi]
53  \definetypeface[MyLucida][tt][mono][lucida][default][encoding=texnansi]
54 \stoptypescript
55 
56 
57 \starttext
58 
59 \usetypescriptfile[type-lucida]
60 \usetypescript[Lucida][texnansi]
61 >>  \setupbodyfont[MyLucida, 10pt] 
62 
63 \input zapf
64 
65 \input tufte
66 
67 
68 \stoptext
69 
mtx-context | fatal error: return code: 1


it doesn't matter either whatever the typescript name goes and whether is 
type-lucida from texnansi-lucida-map file as it has been previously advised to 
change the name from . makes no difference.

Is LuaLaTeX behaving the same way? 

Answer: no.

The permission denied message happened first with folders whose permeissions 
were not owned by the user, but the root, so I moved the files out of harm's 
way to another folder . Anothr folder, NOT a subfolder. 

Then the problem persisted to read folders and even subfolders (directories, 
subdirectories) with cache filenames and headers that follow

So let's not get to apprehensive, It's understandable that say, not reasonable, 
but understandable maybe? that mtxrun or lua for that matter will stop right 
before.

So the folders were moved right after. Gone out of the binaries. But what I 
can't understand is why would it try to access cache folders unrelated with 
anything TeX or header folders for that matter

This is perhaps more serious than I thought at first. 

And Let's not blame the TeXLive pre-packaged running under Alpine Linux. To put 
it in laymans' terms and If anything is clear to me, is that Alpine ir not 
letting Lua running beserk on the system and its folders, owned by 
whatever/whoever else, and with pesmissions set elsewhere. 

It's out of the question. Or it rather be. This is all writh a fresh TeX Live 
Installation. 

I mentioned the problem that may arise by questioning the Alpine installation 
because there were some problems with some binaries from the prepackaged TeX 
Live put out by Alpine devs. But this is not prepackaged.   Nope. 


-- 

"We are on the verge: Today our