RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Sam Cayze]

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.



From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I
get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 

Murray

 


 

 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Carl Houseman]

Is there a no-security wireless network in range and do you allow automatic
connections to it?

If so, and your Netgear was temporarily unavailable, it might connect to it,
thus producing the message.

Or the message is simply false and showing up due to an error in the driver.

 

Rules of thumb for wireless:

1. Make sure router firmware and client NIC drivers are current.

2. Never use the vendor-provided wireless software (other than driver) if
you can help it - make sure such things are uninstalled or disabled from
starting

 

Carl

 

From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
months now.

 

Murray

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[David Mazzaccaro]

You are probably using Dell's wireless software.  (my suggestion -
uninstall it, and use Windows)
This software probably doesn't support WPA2, only WPA
Therefore, it probably thinks you are unsecure.
 



From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.



From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I
get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 

Murray

 


 

 


 

 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

What is the exact text of the message?

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Murray Freeman  wrote:
> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
> months now.
>
>
> Murray
>
>
>
>
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Andy Ognenoff]

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.  WPA2
in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was but I
stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At the
time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan card
in a ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O. 

From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows being
capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide Open
wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off,
windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
months now.
 
Murray
 

 
 

 
 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Sam Cayze]

IMO, Dell's software is far better than Windows...  And they supported
WPA2 well before Windows did.



From: David Mazzaccaro [mailto:david.mazzacc...@hudsonhhc.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


You are probably using Dell's wireless software.  (my suggestion -
uninstall it, and use Windows)
This software probably doesn't support WPA2, only WPA
Therefore, it probably thinks you are unsecure.
 



From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.



From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I
get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 

Murray

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Webb, Brian (Corp)]

 
I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI 
using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to unsecured 
network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when I've checked.

-Brian


-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.  WPA2 in 
my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was but I 
stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At the time 
it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan card in a 
ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O. 

From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows being 
capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide Open 
wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off, 
windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax mimo 
"G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up from the 
icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I right click 
and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network is in fact 
secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there another way to 
insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 
Murray
 

 
 

 
 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Lee Douglas]

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be
circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that
much more attractive..


On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)
wrote:

>
> I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI
> using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
> unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when
> I've checked.
>
> -Brian
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.
>  WPA2 in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was
> but I stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At
> the time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan
> card in a ThinkPad T60.
>
>  - Andy O.
> 
> From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
> being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide
> Open wireless connection (No password needed).
>
> Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off,
> windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
>
> If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.
>
> 
> From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
> months now.
>
> Murray
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <
> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[David Mazzaccaro]

The OP was referencing a 700m laptop - I believe is old (4 years?) and
therefore probably has an old version of Dell's wireless utility on it.
My suggestion: remove the Dell wireless software, see if the problem
goes away.
$.02
 
 



From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


IMO, Dell's software is far better than Windows...  And they supported
WPA2 well before Windows did.



From: David Mazzaccaro [mailto:david.mazzacc...@hudsonhhc.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


You are probably using Dell's wireless software.  (my suggestion -
uninstall it, and use Windows)
This software probably doesn't support WPA2, only WPA
Therefore, it probably thinks you are unsecure.
 



From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.



From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I
get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 

Murray

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Carl Houseman]

No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
"yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you can't do
802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't matter if you're
visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.

 

Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf

 

Carl

 

From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be
circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that
much more attractive..



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp) 
wrote:


I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI
using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when
I've checked.

-Brian



-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.  WPA2
in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was but I
stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At the
time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan card
in a ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.


From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows being
capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide Open
wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off,
windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
months now.
 
Murray
 

 
 

 
 



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Sean Rector]

He's right on the money.  Security through obscurity is a false
security.

 

Sean Rector, MCSE

 

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
"yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you
can't do 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't
matter if you're visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.

 

Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.p
df

 

Carl

 

From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can
likely be circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your
neighbors that much more attractive..

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)
 wrote:


I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link
WIFI using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network
when I've checked.

-Brian



-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.
WPA2 in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem
was but I stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with
CAT5e. At the time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel
integrated wlan card in a ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.


From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I
get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 
Murray
 

 
 

 
 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 

 

 

 

> 2008-2009 Season:  Tosca | The Barber of Seville
> Recently Announced:  Virginia Opera's 35th Anniversary Season 2009-2010
Visit us online at www.vaopera.org or call 1.866.OPERA.VA

This e-mail and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the 
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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

Try explaining this concept to the "security evanglists" on the Boston
Area Windows Server User Group (BAWSUG)
(http://www.windowsboston.com/).

What a freakin' joke.

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Sean Rector  wrote:
> He's right on the money.  Security through obscurity is a false security.
>
>
>
> Sean Rector, MCSE
>
>
>
> From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:47 PM
>
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
>
> No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
> "yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
> working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
> Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you can't do
> 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't matter if you're
> visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.
>
>
>
> Further reading:
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454
>
> http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
>
> In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
> broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be
> circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that
> much more attractive..
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp) 
> wrote:
>
> I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI
> using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
> unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when
> I've checked.
>
> -Brian
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.  WPA2
> in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was but I
> stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At the
> time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan card
> in a ThinkPad T60.
>
>  - Andy O.
> 
>
> From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows being
> capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide Open
> wireless connection (No password needed).
>
> Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off,
> windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
>
> If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.
>
> 
> From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
> months now.
>
> Murray
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Information Technology Manager
> Virginia Opera Association
>
> E-Mail: sean.rec...@vaopera.org
> Phone:(757) 213-4548 (direct line)
> {+}
>
>> 2008-2009 Season:  Tosca |  The Barber of Seville
>> Recently Announced:  Virginia Opera's 35th Anniversary Season 2009-2010
> Visit us online at www.vaopera.org or call 1-866-OPERA-VA
&

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Jonathan Link]

I really hate this trite expression.  It's filled with condecension and a my
way is the only right way point of view.  It fails to value the role of
obscurity in security.

If obscurity had no value, honeypots would be useless.

If obscurity had no value, Sun-Tzu wouldn't have said " if you are formless,
the most penetrating spies will not be able to discern you, or the wisest
counsels will not be able to do calculations against you."

Obcurity is part of security, security is a process, and just like any
process, a missing piece is a missing piece and leave you more vulnerable.
Arguments for security should not begin with security through obscurity is
false security, but should begin with security through obscurity is not
enough security.


On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Sean Rector wrote:

>  He's right on the money.  Security through obscurity is a false security.
>
>
>
> Sean Rector, MCSE
>
>
>
> *From:* Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:47 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
>
> No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
> "yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
> working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
> Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you can't do
> 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't matter if you're
> visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.
>
>
>
> Further reading:
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454
>
> http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> *From:* Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
>
> In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
> broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be
> circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that
> much more attractive..
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp) 
> wrote:
>
>
> I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI
> using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
> unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when
> I've checked.
>
> -Brian
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.
>  WPA2 in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was
> but I stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At
> the time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan
> card in a ThinkPad T60.
>
>  - Andy O.
> 
>
> From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
> being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide
> Open wireless connection (No password needed).
>
> Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off,
> windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
>
> If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.
>
> 
> From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
> months now.
>
> Murray
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <
> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, p

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Murray Freeman]

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I am using WPA2 and I do have my
SSID broadcast turned off. This is a home network. On any given evening,
I can see anywhere from 5 to 9 wifi signals of neighbors routers, and I
figure that anyone looking to hack into a wifi won't waste their time
looking beyond my neighbors routers. I have an 11 digit password, but I
am not using PSK. I suspect I can change that this evening. But the
point of my question is why am I getting the baloon with the message
that my network is unsecured? Is that an error or is it correct. when i
view the other wifi's in range of me, I'm always connected to my
network, and all but one of the wifi's that I see are secured with WPA2,
WPA or WEP. The one unsecured wifi that I see regularly is a very weak
signal, and I've tried to connect, and can never do it. So, it's obvious
that I'm connecting ONLY to my network. It's just the message that I'm
unsecured that concerns me. A couple of people who responded to my
initial post indicated that they have seen the same message on their
laptops, but apparently haven't done any further research.
 

Murray

 



From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER



No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
"yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you
can't do 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't
matter if you're visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.

 

Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.p
df

 

Carl

 

From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can
likely be circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your
neighbors that much more attractive..



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)
 wrote:


I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link
WIFI using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network
when I've checked.

-Brian



-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.
WPA2 in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem
was but I stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with
CAT5e. At the time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel
integrated wlan card in a ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.


From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I
get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 
Murray
 

 
 

 
 



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 


 

 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Troy Meyer]

Murray,

Another thing to check perhaps would be cached connections in your wireless 
settings.  Something isn't kosher though, I have both XP sp3 and Vista sp1 
mobiles that connect to my WPA2 network (dd-wrt on a Linksys 54GL) using 
default windows wifi management and have never seen that message.

BTW, Your 11 digit password is a PSK, that is the alternative to using 
certificates for encryption with WPA2.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-shared_key


-troy

-Original Message-
From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:26 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I am using WPA2 and I do have my SSID 
broadcast turned off. This is a home network. On any given evening, I can see 
anywhere from 5 to 9 wifi signals of neighbors routers, and I figure that 
anyone looking to hack into a wifi won't waste their time looking beyond my 
neighbors routers. I have an 11 digit password, but I am not using PSK. I 
suspect I can change that this evening. But the point of my question is why am 
I getting the baloon with the message that my network is unsecured? Is that an 
error or is it correct. when i view the other wifi's in range of me, I'm always 
connected to my network, and all but one of the wifi's that I see are secured 
with WPA2, WPA or WEP. The one unsecured wifi that I see regularly is a very 
weak signal, and I've tried to connect, and can never do it. So, it's obvious 
that I'm connecting ONLY to my network. It's just the message that I'm 
unsecured that concerns me. A couple of people who responded to my initial post 
indicated that they have seen the same message on their laptops, but apparently 
haven't done any further research.
 

Murray

 



From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER



No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so "yesterday's 
idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in, working around MAC 
filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.  Secure the router or 
access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you can't do 802.1x authentication.  
 When properly secured, it doesn't matter if you're visible or whether your MAC 
is allowed or not.

 

Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf

 

Carl

 

From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router 
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be 
circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that much 
more attractive..



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)  
wrote:


I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI 
using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to unsecured 
network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when I've checked.

-Brian



-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.  WPA2 in 
my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was but I 
stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At the time 
it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan card in a 
ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.


From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows being 
capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide Open 
wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off, 
windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax mimo 
"G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up from the 
icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I right click

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Sean Rector]

Yes you're actually right...the best security is to combine strong
passwords, strong encryption and obscurity.  Relying on obscurity only
doesn't work properly.

 

Sean Rector, MCSE

 

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

I really hate this trite expression.  It's filled with condecension and
a my way is the only right way point of view.  It fails to value the
role of obscurity in security.

 

If obscurity had no value, honeypots would be useless.

 

If obscurity had no value, Sun-Tzu wouldn't have said " if you are
formless, the most penetrating spies will not be able to discern you, or
the wisest counsels will not be able to do calculations against you."

 

Obcurity is part of security, security is a process, and just like any
process, a missing piece is a missing piece and leave you more
vulnerable.  Arguments for security should not begin with security
through obscurity is false security, but should begin with security
through obscurity is not enough security.

 

 

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Sean Rector 
wrote:

He's right on the money.  Security through obscurity is a false
security.

 

Sean Rector, MCSE

 

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:47 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
"yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you
can't do 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't
matter if you're visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.

 

Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.p
df

 

Carl

 

From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can
likely be circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your
neighbors that much more attractive..

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)
 wrote:


I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link
WIFI using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network
when I've checked.

-Brian



-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.
WPA2 in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem
was but I stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with
CAT5e. At the time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel
integrated wlan card in a ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.


From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I
get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
 
Murray
 

 
 

 
 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 

 

 

 

Information Technology Man

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[David Mazzaccaro]

Is this laptop old (around 4 years)?
If so, you are probably using Dell's wireless software.  
My suggestion is to uninstall it, and let Windows manage your wireless
connection by right-clicking on "My Network Places" - right click on
your wireless network connection - properties - wireless tab.
 
The Dell software you are using probably doesn't support WPA2, only WPA
Therefore, it probably thinks you are unsecure.
 
 
 



From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:26 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER


Thanks to everyone for your comments. I am using WPA2 and I do have my
SSID broadcast turned off. This is a home network. On any given evening,
I can see anywhere from 5 to 9 wifi signals of neighbors routers, and I
figure that anyone looking to hack into a wifi won't waste their time
looking beyond my neighbors routers. I have an 11 digit password, but I
am not using PSK. I suspect I can change that this evening. But the
point of my question is why am I getting the baloon with the message
that my network is unsecured? Is that an error or is it correct. when i
view the other wifi's in range of me, I'm always connected to my
network, and all but one of the wifi's that I see are secured with WPA2,
WPA or WEP. The one unsecured wifi that I see regularly is a very weak
signal, and I've tried to connect, and can never do it. So, it's obvious
that I'm connecting ONLY to my network. It's just the message that I'm
unsecured that concerns me. A couple of people who responded to my
initial post indicated that they have seen the same message on their
laptops, but apparently haven't done any further research.
 

Murray

 



From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER



No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
"yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you
can't do 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't
matter if you're visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.

 

Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.p
df

 

Carl

 

From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can
likely be circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your
neighbors that much more attractive..



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)
 wrote:


I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link
WIFI using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network
when I've checked.

-Brian



-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.
WPA2 in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem
was but I stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with
CAT5e. At the time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel
integrated wlan card in a ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.
________

From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
Wide Open wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
off, windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
indicate

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

Well, sure it fails to value it - it is completely against it.  As are
many of us who have dealt with issues related to this over the years.
We arent just following the band wagon here...  many of us are in the
band, and find no value in it.

The Art of War, etc, comparisons dont fly in my book. When someone is
snooping Wi-Fi, they are still going to see your traffic regardless if
it doesnt have an SSID.  I have an app on my iPhone that will show
this.  If I am looking to break in to your network, I'm still going to
hack your packets - SSID or not.  SSID's just make it easier for the
end-user to identify which network they might want to join.

The SSID hiding isnt going to add any value to the security of your
network. Its only going to make it combersome for your users to use
it.  Obscurity of such information only elevates your level of
*perceived* security. You are not more secure by hiding something.
Obscurity does not elevate your level of security in any way shape or
form.

I'd further suggest that promoting obscurity as an increase in
security is a disservice to any client or customer. They days of
security by obscurity are passed. You should never have any faith in
obscurity as a level of security.  Microsoft was a laughing stock with
obscurity in the 90's. Many company's have been caught with their
pants down in recent years over security failures that involved
obscurity.

Security is an aspect of protection. Obscurity offers no protection
whatsoever. Its not tangible. Its not manageable. Its not real.

My opinion.  YMMV.

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Jonathan Link  wrote:
> I really hate this trite expression.  It's filled with condecension and a my
> way is the only right way point of view.  It fails to value the role of
> obscurity in security.
>
> If obscurity had no value, honeypots would be useless.
>
> If obscurity had no value, Sun-Tzu wouldn't have said " if you are formless,
> the most penetrating spies will not be able to discern you, or the wisest
> counsels will not be able to do calculations against you."
>
> Obcurity is part of security, security is a process, and just like any
> process, a missing piece is a missing piece and leave you more vulnerable.
> Arguments for security should not begin with security through obscurity is
> false security, but should begin with security through obscurity is not
> enough security.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Sean Rector 
> wrote:
>>
>> He's right on the money.  Security through obscurity is a false security.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean Rector, MCSE
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:47 PM
>>
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>>
>>
>>
>> No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
>> "yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
>> working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
>> Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you can't do
>> 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't matter if you're
>> visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Further reading:
>>
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43
>>
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454
>>
>> http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>>
>>
>>
>> In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
>> broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be
>> circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that
>> much more attractive..
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link
>> WIFI using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
>> unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when
>> I've checked.
>>
>> -Brian
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>>
>> I've seen that happen too, w

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Kurt Buff]

Is this at home?

For personal implementations, I follow Bruce's advice:

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/01/securitymatters_0110

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33, Murray Freeman  wrote:
> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
> months now.
>
>
> Murray

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Murray Freeman]

Yes 


MMF

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:16 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Is this at home?

For personal implementations, I follow Bruce's advice:

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/0
1/securitymatters_0110

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33, Murray Freeman 
wrote:
> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear 
> rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a 
> baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection

> is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it 
> indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why 
> I get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2 
> secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
>
>
> Murray

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

I can't beleive that guy is a CTO.

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Kurt Buff  wrote:
> Is this at home?
>
> For personal implementations, I follow Bruce's advice:
>
> http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/01/securitymatters_0110
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33, Murray Freeman  wrote:
>> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
>> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
>> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
>> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
>> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
>> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
>> months now.
>>
>>
>> Murray
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Kurt Buff]

I can't either. He's definitely one of my role models - I love his
books and blogs - although I don't agree with him at all points, his
style of reasoning and expressing himself places him at the top of the
industry.

Kurt

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:42, Micheal Espinola Jr
 wrote:
> I can't beleive that guy is a CTO.
>
> --
> ME2
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Kurt Buff  wrote:
>> Is this at home?
>>
>> For personal implementations, I follow Bruce's advice:
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/01/securitymatters_0110
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33, Murray Freeman  wrote:
>>> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
>>> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
>>> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
>>> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
>>> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
>>> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
>>> months now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Murray
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Sam Cayze]

Take it one step further, (and more secure), I set me SSID to my email
address.  Neighbors can email me for access/sharing the bill.  Then
isolate the network traffic at the router.

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:16 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Is this at home?

For personal implementations, I follow Bruce's advice:

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/0
1/securitymatters_0110

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33, Murray Freeman 
wrote:
> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear 
> rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a 
> baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection

> is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it 
> indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why 
> I get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2 
> secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
>
>
> Murray

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Ken Schaefer]

Security through obscurity is not security you can rely on. It has value, but 
it isn't real security because it provides nothing that can be relied on.

Cheers
Ken

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2009 8:04 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I really hate this trite expression.  It's filled with condecension and a my 
way is the only right way point of view.  It fails to value the role of 
obscurity in security.

If obscurity had no value, honeypots would be useless.

If obscurity had no value, Sun-Tzu wouldn't have said " if you are formless, 
the most penetrating spies will not be able to discern you, or the wisest 
counsels will not be able to do calculations against you."

Obcurity is part of security, security is a process, and just like any process, 
a missing piece is a missing piece and leave you more vulnerable.  Arguments 
for security should not begin with security through obscurity is false 
security, but should begin with security through obscurity is not enough 
security.


On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Sean Rector 
mailto:sean.rec...@vaopera.org>> wrote:

He's right on the money.  Security through obscurity is a false security.



Sean Rector, MCSE



From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com<mailto:c.house...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:47 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER



No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so "yesterday's 
idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in, working around MAC 
filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.  Secure the router or 
access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you can't do 802.1x authentication.  
 When properly secured, it doesn't matter if you're visible or whether your MAC 
is allowed or not.



Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf



Carl



From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com<mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER



In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router 
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be 
circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that much 
more attractive..

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp) 
mailto:brian.w...@teldta.com>> wrote:

I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI 
using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to unsecured 
network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when I've checked.

-Brian


-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff 
[mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com<mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.  WPA2 in 
my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was but I 
stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At the time 
it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan card in a 
ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.


From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com<mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com>]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows being 
capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide Open 
wireless connection (No password needed).

Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off, 
windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?

If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org<mailto:mfree...@alanet.org>]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax mimo 
"G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up from the 
icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I right click 
and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network is in fact 
secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there another way to 
insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.

Murray








~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.co

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Carl Houseman]

Those other neighbor routers that have no security... add each of those to
the "Preferred networks" list, then UNcheck the "Connect when this network
is in range" on the Connection tab of the properties of the entry.

 

Carl

 

From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:26 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I am using WPA2 and I do have my SSID
broadcast turned off. This is a home network. On any given evening, I can
see anywhere from 5 to 9 wifi signals of neighbors routers, and I figure
that anyone looking to hack into a wifi won't waste their time looking
beyond my neighbors routers. I have an 11 digit password, but I am not using
PSK. I suspect I can change that this evening. But the point of my question
is why am I getting the baloon with the message that my network is
unsecured? Is that an error or is it correct. when i view the other wifi's
in range of me, I'm always connected to my network, and all but one of the
wifi's that I see are secured with WPA2, WPA or WEP. The one unsecured wifi
that I see regularly is a very weak signal, and I've tried to connect, and
can never do it. So, it's obvious that I'm connecting ONLY to my network.
It's just the message that I'm unsecured that concerns me. A couple of
people who responded to my initial post indicated that they have seen the
same message on their laptops, but apparently haven't done any further
research.

 

Murray

 

 

  _  

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
"yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you can't do
802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't matter if you're
visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.

 

Further reading:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf

 

Carl

 

From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

 

In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can likely be
circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors that
much more attractive..

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp) 
wrote:


I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link WIFI
using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network when
I've checked.

-Brian



-Original Message-
From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.  WPA2
in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem was but I
stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e. At the
time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated wlan card
in a ThinkPad T60.

 - Andy O.
________

From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows being
capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a Wide Open
wireless connection (No password needed).
 
Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is off,
windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
 
If not that, I suspect it's your AV telling you something, or spyware.


From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear rangemax
mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops up
from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure. If I
right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my network
is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is there
another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed this for
months now.
 
Murray
 

 
 

 
 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

Now that at least makes sense to me.

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Sam Cayze  wrote:
> Take it one step further, (and more secure), I set me SSID to my email
> address.  Neighbors can email me for access/sharing the bill.  Then
> isolate the network traffic at the router.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:16 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> Is this at home?
>
> For personal implementations, I follow Bruce's advice:
>
> http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/0
> 1/securitymatters_0110
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33, Murray Freeman 
> wrote:
>> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
>> rangemax mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a
>> baloon pops up from the icon in the systray stating that my connection
>
>> is unsecure. If I right click and select "view wireless networks" it
>> indicates that my network is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why
>> I get the baloon, and is there another way to insure that I am WPA2
>> secured in fact? I've noticed this for months now.
>>
>>
>> Murray
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Angus Scott-Fleming]

T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7RzIHJp
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxzZSBz
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3MgYWdh
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cgd29y
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IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5vdGhl
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpHZW9B
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9pbnQg
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdW5i
ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Phil Brutsche]

Gah! It's happening again!

He said this:

"On 19 Feb 2009 at 15:54, Sean Rector  wrote:

> He's right on the money. Security through obscurity is a false
> security.

SSID hiding and MAC filtering is useless against the real bad guys, and
the automated tools now work around those two things trivially.

[devil's advocate mode]
What is a password -- or a WPA2 key -- but another form of SBO?
[/dma]


--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
+---+"

Angus Scott-Fleming wrote:
> T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7RzIHJp
> Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxzZSBz
> ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3MgYWdh
> aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cgd29y
> ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9jYXRl
> IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5vdGhl
> ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpHZW9B
> cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
> LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9pbnQg
> c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdW5i
> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=
> 


-- 

Phil Brutsche
p...@optimumdata.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Martin Blackstone]

That's my AP password! 

-Original Message-
From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7RzIHJp
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxzZSBz
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3MgYWdh
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cgd29y
ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9jYXRl
IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5vdGhl
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpHZW9B
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9pbnQg
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdW5i
ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Ken Schaefer]

SBO?

-Original Message-
From: Phil Brutsche [mailto:p...@optimumdata.com] 
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2009 2:55 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Gah! It's happening again!

He said this:

"On 19 Feb 2009 at 15:54, Sean Rector  wrote:

> He's right on the money. Security through obscurity is a false
> security.

SSID hiding and MAC filtering is useless against the real bad guys, and
the automated tools now work around those two things trivially.

[devil's advocate mode]
What is a password -- or a WPA2 key -- but another form of SBO?
[/dma]


--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
+---+"

Angus Scott-Fleming wrote:
> T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7RzIHJp
> Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxzZSBz
> ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3MgYWdh
> aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cgd29y
> ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9jYXRl
> IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5vdGhl
> ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpHZW9B
> cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
> LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9pbnQg
> c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdW5i
> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=
> 


-- 

Phil Brutsche
p...@optimumdata.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

LOL!

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Martin Blackstone
 wrote:
> That's my AP password!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7RzIHJp
> Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxzZSBz
> ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3MgYWdh
> aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cgd29y
> ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9jYXRl
> IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5vdGhl
> ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpHZW9B
> cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
> LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9pbnQg
> c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdW5i
> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

Small bowel obstruction

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> SBO?

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Phil Brutsche]

It's the classic risk management argument.

Let's assume I follow his advice and leave my wireless wide open. A
teenager in my neighborhood then uses my wireless to pirate vast
quantities of music. Then the RIAA comes after me with a lawsuit because
of my idiot neighbor.

Bruce Schneier might be a rich man, but I am not. Dealing with the
hypothetical lawsuit would cost me thousands of  I can't spare,
either with the cost of settlement or a lawyer to fight the lawsuit.

Too much risk for me. I would rather spend a minute or two entering the
WPA2 PSK for my guest subnet in my friend's laptop once in a blue moon.

I think that, once explained in those terms, most people would want
their wireless locked down.

Additionally, WPA2 w/AES encryption and a good passphrase will provide
you far more mileage than the overhead of dealing with MAC filtering and
a hidden SSID - both of which are trivially bypassable.

Micheal Espinola Jr wrote:
> I can't beleive that guy is a CTO.

-- 

Phil Brutsche
p...@optimumdata.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Martin Blackstone]

That's like back in the day.

What's your WEP key?
Here you go: kgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI
Don't write it down!



-Original Message-
From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:09 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

LOL!

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Martin Blackstone
 wrote:
> That's my AP password!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7RzIHJp
>
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxzZSBz
>
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3MgYWdh
>
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cgd29y
>
ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9jYXRl
>
IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5vdGhl
>
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpHZW9B
>
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
>
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9pbnQg
>
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdW5i
> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Ziots, Edward]

WEP? Who in the good lord still uses it and thinks they are secure? WPA2
TKIP + MIC or Certificates for authentication.. 

Z

Edward E. Ziots
Network Engineer
Lifespan Organization
Email: ezi...@lifespan.org
Phone: 401-639-3505
MCSE, MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network +

-Original Message-
From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:mblackst...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:13 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

That's like back in the day.

What's your WEP key?
Here you go:
kgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI
Don't write it down!



-Original Message-
From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:09 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

LOL!

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Martin Blackstone
 wrote:
> That's my AP password!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7Rz
IHJp
>
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxz
ZSBz
>
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3Mg
YWdh
>
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cg
d29y
>
ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9j
YXRl
>
IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5v
dGhl
>
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpH
ZW9B
>
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
LS0t
>
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9p
bnQg
>
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5z
dW5i
> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Martin Blackstone]

I told someone a while back I would rather use nothing than use WEP. At
least that way I wouldn't be fooling myself that I was secure.

-Original Message-
From: Ziots, Edward [mailto:ezi...@lifespan.org] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:37 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

WEP? Who in the good lord still uses it and thinks they are secure? WPA2
TKIP + MIC or Certificates for authentication.. 

Z

Edward E. Ziots
Network Engineer
Lifespan Organization
Email: ezi...@lifespan.org
Phone: 401-639-3505
MCSE, MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network +

-Original Message-
From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:mblackst...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:13 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

That's like back in the day.

What's your WEP key?
Here you go:
kgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI
Don't write it down!



-Original Message-
From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:09 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

LOL!

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Martin Blackstone
 wrote:
> That's my AP password!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7Rz
IHJp
>
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxz
ZSBz
>
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3Mg
YWdh
>
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cg
d29y
>
ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9j
YXRl
>
IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5v
dGhl
>
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpH
ZW9B
>
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
LS0t
>
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9p
bnQg
>
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5z
dW5i
> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Peter van Houten]

I think that's why Martin [with his tongue firmly in his cheek] said
"back in the day"...

--
Peter van Houten


On the 20/02/2009 15:37, Ziots, Edward wrote the following:

WEP? Who in the good lord still uses it and thinks they are secure? WPA2
TKIP + MIC or Certificates for authentication..

Z

Edward E. Ziots
Network Engineer
Lifespan Organization
Email: ezi...@lifespan.org
Phone: 401-639-3505
MCSE, MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network +

-Original Message-
From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:mblackst...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:13 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

That's like back in the day.

What's your WEP key?
Here you go:
kgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI
Don't write it down!

-Original Message-
From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:09 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

LOL!

--
ME2

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Martin Blackstone
  wrote:

That's my AP password!

-Original Message-
From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER



T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7Rz
IHJp
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxz
ZSBz
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3Mg
YWdh
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cg
d29y
ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9j
YXRl
IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5v
dGhl
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpH
ZW9B
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
LS0t
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9p
bnQg
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5z
dW5i

ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[René de Haas]

One of my neighbors does  :-)

René

-Original Message-
From: Ziots, Edward [mailto:ezi...@lifespan.org] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:37 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

WEP? Who in the good lord still uses it and thinks they are secure? WPA2
TKIP + MIC or Certificates for authentication.. 

Z

Edward E. Ziots
Network Engineer
Lifespan Organization
Email: ezi...@lifespan.org
Phone: 401-639-3505
MCSE, MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network +

-Original Message-
From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:mblackst...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:13 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

That's like back in the day.

What's your WEP key?
Here you go:
kgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI
Don't write it down!



-Original Message-
From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:09 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

LOL!

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Martin Blackstone
 wrote:
> That's my AP password!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
>
T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7Rz
IHJp
>
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxz
ZSBz
>
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3Mg
YWdh
>
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cg
d29y
>
ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9j
YXRl
>
IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5v
dGhl
>
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpH
ZW9B
>
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
LS0t
>
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9p
bnQg
>
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5z
dW5i
> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~



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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Jonathan Link]

ly hate this trite expression.  It's filled with condecension and a
> my
> > way is the only right way point of view.  It fails to value the role of
> > obscurity in security.
> >
> > If obscurity had no value, honeypots would be useless.
> >
> > If obscurity had no value, Sun-Tzu wouldn't have said " if you are
> formless,
> > the most penetrating spies will not be able to discern you, or the wisest
> > counsels will not be able to do calculations against you."
> >
> > Obcurity is part of security, security is a process, and just like any
> > process, a missing piece is a missing piece and leave you more
> vulnerable.
> > Arguments for security should not begin with security through obscurity
> is
> > false security, but should begin with security through obscurity is not
> > enough security.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Sean Rector 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> He's right on the money.  Security through obscurity is a false
> security.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sean Rector, MCSE
> >>
> >>
> >>
>  >> From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:47 PM
> >>
> >> To: NT System Admin Issues
> >> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No no no.   Those recommendations should be dismissed, they are so
> >> "yesterday's idea of security".  For anyone who really wants to get in,
> >> working around MAC filtering and non-broadcast SID's is a piece of cake.
> >> Secure the router or access point with WPA2 and a strong PSK if you
> can't do
> >> 802.1x authentication.   When properly secured, it doesn't matter if
> you're
> >> visible or whether your MAC is allowed or not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Further reading:
> >>
> >> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43
> >>
> >> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=454
> >>
> >>
> http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Carl
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Lee Douglas [mailto:lee.doug...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:14 PM
> >> To: NT System Admin Issues
> >> Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In terms of securing, I've seen recommendations to NOT have the router
> >> broadcast its SID as well as using MAC filtering. I'm sure all can
> likely be
> >> circumvented, but they just add extra layers and make your neighbors
> that
> >> much more attractive..
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Webb, Brian (Corp)
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> I've seen the same message as well with an HP laptop going to a D-Link
> >> WIFI using WPA.  The message seems to indicate that you are connected to
> >> unsecured network, but I've always been connected to my secured network
> when
> >> I've checked.
> >>
> >> -Brian
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Andy Ognenoff [mailto:andyognen...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:57 PM
> >> To: NT System Admin Issues
> >> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
> >>
> >> I've seen that happen too, with the plain old Windows wireless client.
> >>  WPA2 in my instance, as well.  I never did figure out what the problem
> was
> >> but I stopped using WIFI a year ago and just wired my house with CAT5e.
> At
> >> the time it was a Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT and an Intel integrated
> wlan
> >> card in a ThinkPad T60.
> >>
> >>  - Andy O.
> >> 
> >>
> >> From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:40 PM
> >> To: NT System Admin Issues
> >> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
> >>
> >> Mmm... this doesn't sound like a popup that I am familiar with Windows
> >> being capable of generating.  It won't even pop up that message with a
> Wide
> >> Open wireless connection (No password needed).
> >>
> >> Could it be the security center letting you know that the firewall is
> off,
> >> windows update is off, or that virus defs are old?
> >>
> >> If not that, I suspect

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

My final rebuttal is this:  There is no value in an aspect of security
or security process that can not be quantified.  To do so is therefor
meaningless, and therefore has no value - other than some human oddity
that makes you personally feel good about doing it.

Im going to go pull the shades down on all my windows and pretend
there are no bad guys outside.  :-)

--
ME2



On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Jonathan Link  wrote:
> I will stipulate that security only by obscurity is false security.  But
> likely to remain unconvinced that there is no role or value for obscurity in
> the security process.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Eric Brouwer]

Actually, your shade example is a good one.  Your closed shades would  
stop the random, wanna be burglar from taking a chance on breaking  
into your house, and finding nothing.  They can't see that you have  
"stuff" through your windows.  They just want quick cash, so they walk  
next door and see your neighbors wallet with cash sticking out on his  
table through the window.  They break in his house, and take the easy,  
visible cash.


On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Micheal Espinola Jr wrote:


My final rebuttal is this:  There is no value in an aspect of security
or security process that can not be quantified.  To do so is therefor
meaningless, and therefore has no value - other than some human oddity
that makes you personally feel good about doing it.

Im going to go pull the shades down on all my windows and pretend
there are no bad guys outside.  :-)

--
ME2



On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Jonathan Link > wrote:
I will stipulate that security only by obscurity is false  
security.  But
likely to remain unconvinced that there is no role or value for  
obscurity in

the security process.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~



Eric Brouwer
IT Manager
www.forestpost.com
er...@forestpost.com
248.855.4333





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Mike Gill]

People that have a Nintendo DS, or other legacy devices that aren't capable
of anything newer.

-- 
Mike Gill

-Original Message-
From: Ziots, Edward [mailto:ezi...@lifespan.org] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:37 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

WEP? Who in the good lord still uses it and thinks they are secure? WPA2
TKIP + MIC or Certificates for authentication.. 

Z

Edward E. Ziots
Network Engineer
Lifespan Organization
Email: ezi...@lifespan.org
Phone: 401-639-3505
MCSE, MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network +


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

That doesnt actually equate to a network based intrusion at all.  You
cant simply see through a port and identify valuable data on the other
side.  An intrusion still has to take place.

--
ME2



On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Eric Brouwer  wrote:
> Actually, your shade example is a good one.  Your closed shades would stop
> the random, wanna be burglar from taking a chance on breaking into your
> house, and finding nothing.  They can't see that you have "stuff" through
> your windows.  They just want quick cash, so they walk next door and see
> your neighbors wallet with cash sticking out on his table through the
> window.  They break in his house, and take the easy, visible cash.
>
> On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Micheal Espinola Jr wrote:
>
>> My final rebuttal is this:  There is no value in an aspect of security
>> or security process that can not be quantified.  To do so is therefor
>> meaningless, and therefore has no value - other than some human oddity
>> that makes you personally feel good about doing it.
>>
>> Im going to go pull the shades down on all my windows and pretend
>> there are no bad guys outside.  :-)
>>
>> --
>> ME2
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Jonathan Link 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I will stipulate that security only by obscurity is false security.  But
>>> likely to remain unconvinced that there is no role or value for obscurity
>>> in
>>> the security process.
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>
>
> Eric Brouwer
> IT Manager
> www.forestpost.com
> er...@forestpost.com
> 248.855.4333
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Angus Scott-Fleming]

On 20 Feb 2009 at 9:01, Mike Gill  wrote:

> People that have a Nintendo DS, or other legacy devices that aren't capable of
> anything newer.

IMHO such people should set up two networks, then, one insecure for the legacy 
devices and one secure for real use.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

+1

--
ME2



On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming
 wrote:
> IMHO such people should set up two networks, then, one insecure for the legacy
> devices and one secure for real use.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Phil Brutsche]

Unfortunately, that is not always feasible.

#1: You are talking about something that is well beyond the skill set of
99.9% of end users

#2: Outside of wireless routers capable of running DD-WRT 99.9% of
the cheap $&#*() crap @ Best Buy, Fry's, Office Max, Office Depot, etc
are incapable of such things.

It's trivial with something like a Cisco 871W, but most people are
unwilling to spend $550 US on their wireless router :)

Angus Scott-Fleming wrote:
> IMHO such people should set up two networks, then, one insecure for the 
> legacy 
> devices and one secure for real use.

-- 

Phil Brutsche
p...@optimumdata.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

Yea but, this is an admin list.

--
ME2



On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Phil Brutsche  wrote:
> #1: You are talking about something that is well beyond the skill set of
> 99.9% of end users

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Kurt Buff]

If that's the way you want to go, two cheap WAPs will provide what you
want - one secured, the other not, on different frequencies.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:00, Phil Brutsche  wrote:
> Unfortunately, that is not always feasible.
>
> #1: You are talking about something that is well beyond the skill set of
> 99.9% of end users
>
> #2: Outside of wireless routers capable of running DD-WRT 99.9% of
> the cheap $&#*() crap @ Best Buy, Fry's, Office Max, Office Depot, etc
> are incapable of such things.
>
> It's trivial with something like a Cisco 871W, but most people are
> unwilling to spend $550 US on their wireless router :)
>
> Angus Scott-Fleming wrote:
>> IMHO such people should set up two networks, then, one insecure for the 
>> legacy
>> devices and one secure for real use.
>
> --
>
> Phil Brutsche
> p...@optimumdata.com
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Phil Brutsche]

You still need a sufficiently intelligent firewall to separate the two
into separate subnets.

If you don't have that, why bother with 2 APs?

Goes right back to both my points - the vast majority of end users don't
know how, and the vast majority of end-user equipment can't do it.

Kurt Buff wrote:
> If that's the way you want to go, two cheap WAPs will provide what you
> want - one secured, the other not, on different frequencies.

-- 

Phil Brutsche
p...@optimumdata.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Kurt Buff]

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:57, Phil Brutsche  wrote:
> You still need a sufficiently intelligent firewall to separate the two
> into separate subnets.
>
> If you don't have that, why bother with 2 APs?

Depends on your desired outcome.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Angus Scott-Fleming]

> Angus Scott-Fleming wrote:
> > IMHO such people should set up two networks, then, one insecure for the
> > legacy devices and one secure for real use.

On 20 Feb 2009 at 23:00, Phil Brutsche  wrote:

> Unfortunately, that is not always feasible.
> 
> #1: You are talking about something that is well beyond the skill set of
> 99.9% of end users

Give thanks for that or we wouldn't be employed doing what we're doing ;-)

OTOH it's non-techie "end users" who need us to keep their tech up and running 
...

> #2: Outside of wireless routers capable of running DD-WRT 99.9% of
> the cheap $&#*() crap @ Best Buy, Fry's, Office Max, Office Depot, etc
> are incapable of such things.
> 
> It's trivial with something like a Cisco 871W, but most people are
> unwilling to spend $550 US on their wireless router :)

Actually you can also do it on the cheap with a router like IPCop (GPL software 
on a legacy PC with a couple of extra NICs) and two WiFi networks.  The secured 
one hangs on the "GREEN" (internal) network and is internal, the insecure one 
hangs on the "BLUE" (internal but isolated) network and can only see the 
Internet, plus any pinholes you might poke through the firewall (to allow 
printing, for example).  Two cheap WiFi devices like DWL-G800APs (under $100 
street price) or DWL-G730APs (under $50 street) can provide the networks.


--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
+---+




~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Ken Schaefer]

The reason we don't call this "security" is because this isn't something you 
can rely on to mitigate a risk. If the burglar doesn't think or care about 
"looking in windows" then your wallet is just as vulnerable as the next 
person's.

That's not to say that there is no benefit to obscurity. However it's not 
something you can *rely* on to mitigate anything to any quantifiable metric

On the other hand, the use of a safe mitigates you from burglars who break in 
without specific safe-breaking tools.

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Eric Brouwer [mailto:er...@forestpost.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 21 February 2009 3:59 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

Actually, your shade example is a good one.  Your closed shades would  
stop the random, wanna be burglar from taking a chance on breaking  
into your house, and finding nothing.  They can't see that you have  
"stuff" through your windows.  They just want quick cash, so they walk  
next door and see your neighbors wallet with cash sticking out on his  
table through the window.  They break in his house, and take the easy,  
visible cash.

On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Micheal Espinola Jr wrote:

> My final rebuttal is this:  There is no value in an aspect of security
> or security process that can not be quantified.  To do so is therefor
> meaningless, and therefore has no value - other than some human oddity
> that makes you personally feel good about doing it.
>
> Im going to go pull the shades down on all my windows and pretend
> there are no bad guys outside.  :-)
>
> --
> ME2
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Jonathan Link  > wrote:
>> I will stipulate that security only by obscurity is false  
>> security.  But
>> likely to remain unconvinced that there is no role or value for  
>> obscurity in the security process.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Ben Scott]

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Phil Brutsche  wrote:
>> If that's the way you want to go, two cheap WAPs will provide what you
>> want - one secured, the other not, on different frequencies.
>
> You still need a sufficiently intelligent firewall to separate the two
> into separate subnets.

  Not at all.  We've got two of these router+WAP boxes.  Connect first
box's Internet port to cable modem.  LAN side of this box is the guest
network.  Plug second box's Internet port into LAN side of first box.
LAN side of second box is the trusted network.  You're double NAT'ing,
but that's usually not a problem for SOHO environments.  I've done
this before for a friend who wanted something similar, and it worked
for them.  I wouldn't want to run a "big business" on it, but that
doesn't seem to be what's under discussion.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

[Sean Rector]

I did this with a Tropical Smoothie Café that wanted to offer free WiFi to 
their customers, and wanted a secured wireless for the owner's use.

Sean Rector, MCSE

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:21 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Phil Brutsche  wrote:
>> If that's the way you want to go, two cheap WAPs will provide what you
>> want - one secured, the other not, on different frequencies.
>
> You still need a sufficiently intelligent firewall to separate the two
> into separate subnets.

  Not at all.  We've got two of these router+WAP boxes.  Connect first
box's Internet port to cable modem.  LAN side of this box is the guest
network.  Plug second box's Internet port into LAN side of first box.
LAN side of second box is the trusted network.  You're double NAT'ing,
but that's usually not a problem for SOHO environments.  I've done
this before for a friend who wanted something similar, and it worked
for them.  I wouldn't want to run a "big business" on it, but that
doesn't seem to be what's under discussion.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 2008-2009 Season:  Tosca | The Barber of Seville
> Recently Announced:  Virginia Opera's 35th Anniversary Season 2009-2010
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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Kent, Larry CTR USA IMCOM]

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE

I can't "believe" your spell checker isn't working...:) 

-Original Message-
From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 2009-02-19 5:42
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I can't beleive that guy is a CTO.

--
ME2



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Kurt Buff  wrote:
> Is this at home?
>
> For personal implementations, I follow Bruce's advice:
>
>
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/0
1/securitymatters_0110
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33, Murray Freeman 
wrote:
>> I hope this is on topic. I have a Dell 700m laptop and a Netgear
rangemax
>> mimo "G" router. I'm using WPA2, but from time to time, a baloon pops
up
>> from the icon in the systray stating that my connection is unsecure.
If I
>> right click and select "view wireless networks" it indicates that my
network
>> is in fact secured with WPA2. Any ideas why I get the baloon, and is
there
>> another way to insure that I am WPA2 secured in fact? I've noticed
this for
>> months now.
>>
>>
>> Murray
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Kent, Larry CTR USA IMCOM]

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE

his = Shook's
 

-Original Message-
From: Peter van Houten [mailto:peter...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 2009-02-20 9:16
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER

I think that's why Martin [with his tongue firmly in his cheek] said
"back in the day"...

--
Peter van Houten

> On the 20/02/2009 15:37, Ziots, Edward wrote the following:
>
> WEP? Who in the good lord still uses it and thinks they are secure?
WPA2
> TKIP + MIC or Certificates for authentication..
>
> Z
>
> Edward E. Ziots
> Network Engineer
> Lifespan Organization
> Email: ezi...@lifespan.org
> Phone: 401-639-3505
> MCSE, MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network +
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:mblackst...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:13 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> That's like back in the day.
>
> What's your WEP key?
> Here you go:
> kgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI
> Don't write it down!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:09 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>
> LOL!
>
> --
> ME2
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Martin Blackstone
>   wrote:
>> That's my AP password!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: RE: SECURING WIFI ROUTER
>>
>>
>
T24gMTkgRmViIDIwMDkgYXQgMTU6NTQsIFNlYW4gUmVjdG9yICB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBI/7Rz
> IHJp
>
Z2h0IG9uIHRoZSBtb25leS4gU2VjdXJpdHkgdGhyb3VnaCBvYnNjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBmYWxz
> ZSBz
>
ZWN1cml0eS4gDQoNClNTSUQgaGlkaW5nIGFuZCBNQUMgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGlzIHVzZWxlc3Mg
> YWdh
>
aW5zdCB0aGUgcmVhbCBiYWQgZ3V5cywgYW5kIHRoZSANCmF1dG9tYXRlZCB0b29scyBub3cg
> d29y
>
ayBhcm91bmQgdGhvc2UgdHdvIHRoaW5ncyB0cml2aWFsbHkuDQoNCltkZXZpbCdzIGFkdm9j
> YXRl
>
IG1vZGVdDQpXaGF0IGlzIGEgcGFzc3dvcmQgLS0gb3IgYSBXUEEyIGtleSAtLSBidXQgYW5v
> dGhl
>
ciBmb3JtIG9mIFNCTz8NClsvZG1hXQ0KDQoNCi0tDQpBbmd1cyBTY290dC1GbGVtaW5nDQpH
> ZW9B
>
cHBzLCBUdWNzb24sIEFyaXpvbmENCjEtNTIwLTI5MC01MDM4DQorLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
> LS0t
>
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0rDQoNCg0KDQoNCn4gRmluYWxseSwgcG93ZXJmdWwgZW5kcG9p
> bnQg
>
c2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCBJU04nVCBhIHJlc291cmNlIGhvZyEgfg0KfiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5z
> dW5i
>> ZWx0c29mdHdhcmUuY29tL0J1c2luZXNzL1ZJUFJFLUVudGVycHJpc2UvPiAgfg=

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~