RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-09 Thread Tom Miller
check the dns settings on the client.  Just this week I had something
similar.  The DNS suffixes on the PC were wrong.  The staff member
connects to a state system via VPN, and I think the state staff added
those suffixes.  There were not needed in any case, so I removed them. 
Then all was good.  

 Ray rz...@qwest.net 4/9/2010 1:02 AM 
New machine or one that's already got an account in ADUC?

-Original Message-
From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:06 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

What’s the actual (complete) error message?

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com 

c - 312.731.3132



-Original Message-
From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:31 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Unable to join computer to Domain

Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with: 
The network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get
emails from the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-09 Thread Bob Anderson
Brian, and all  

It turns out the computer had parts failing and we ended up wiping it 
completely and starting over from scratch. It would not even respond to a 
regedit.

All is well now and runs faster.

Thanks again to all

Bob 
IT Manager


-Original Message-
From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:06 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

What’s the actual (complete) error message?

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132



-Original Message-
From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:31 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Unable to join computer to Domain

Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-08 Thread Brian Desmond
What’s the actual (complete) error message?

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132



-Original Message-
From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:31 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Unable to join computer to Domain

Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-08 Thread Ray
New machine or one that's already got an account in ADUC?

-Original Message-
From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:06 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

What’s the actual (complete) error message?

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132



-Original Message-
From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:31 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Unable to join computer to Domain

Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~



RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread John Aldrich
Silly question, but you *have* verified that the DNS servers are correct for 
the domain controllers? What about using the LMHOSTS file and hard-coding the 
DC IP addresses as well? That might help. Failing that, I'd say it's about time 
to nuke it and rebuild it.

-Original Message-
From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:31 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Unable to join computer to Domain

Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
? Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~



Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread Erik Goldoff
you don't give much to go on, like the OS of the workstation, what version
of domain ( 2003 AD, 2008 AD, etc )
Have you checked for duplicate machine name, tried NewSid, verified your DNS
is pointing to a DC, check DNS for your workstation record, etc ...
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Bob Anderson
bander...@kentwatersports.comwrote:

 Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as
 entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The
 network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails
 from the domain but just not join it

 Thanks in advance
 Bob Anderson

 IT Manager
 Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
 433 Park Ave. S
 New London OH 44851
 419-929-7021 x315
  Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
 ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread David Lum
You need to be able to at minimum FQDN one of the DC's \\server.domain.local. I 
usually see the error message you mention when the wrong DNS servers are 
specified.

David Lum // SYSTEMS ENGINEER 
NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION
(Desk) 971.222.1025 // (Cell) 503.267.9764



-Original Message-
From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:31 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Unable to join computer to Domain

Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread RichardMcClary
WELL...  back in the Win95 days (and perhaps on a Windows 2000 machine), I 
had this happen perhaps 3 times.

There are some MS domain controller testers which may tell you if any of 
your DCs have DNS issues.

Meanwhile, on those three problem machines, I actually needed to pull the 
NIC and remove ALL networking.  Then, after putting the NIC back in, 
loading the drivers, and then re-installing networking services, they 
could join the domain.

Now that I've not seen that particular problem in like 8-9 years, we have 
Vista and Windows 7 machines where the administrator who opens and 
completes the setup for an OEM install finds they are lacking sufficient 
rights to do much of anything despite being listed as The 
Administrator!...
--
Richard D. McClary
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group 
ASPCAR
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
Urbana, IL  61802
 
richardmccl...@aspca.org
 
P: 217-337-9761
C: 217-417-1182
F: 217-337-9761
www.aspca.org
 
The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is 
from The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to AnimalsR (ASPCA
R) and is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may 
contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not 
the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution, copying or use of the contents of this 
e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me by reply email 
and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any 
printout thereof.
 

Bob Anderson bander...@kentwatersports.com wrote on 04/06/2010 08:30:59 
AM:

 Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far 
 as entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back 
 with:  The network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine
 can get emails from the domain but just not join it
 
 Thanks in advance
 Bob Anderson
 
 IT Manager
 Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
 433 Park Ave. S
 New London OH 44851
 419-929-7021 x315
 �� Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
 
 
 
 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
 ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread Bob Anderson
Sorry for that.
This is a XP sp3 box with hard wired IP addresses for machine and DNS servers 
The machine was renamed while not on the domain.  I have added the machine name 
in AD and done both direct add and network discovery.

Bob
IT Manager

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

you don't give much to go on, like the OS of the workstation, what version of 
domain ( 2003 AD, 2008 AD, etc )
Have you checked for duplicate machine name, tried NewSid, verified your DNS is 
pointing to a DC, check DNS for your workstation record, etc ...
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Bob Anderson 
bander...@kentwatersports.commailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com wrote:
Hello,
   I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
• Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~






~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread Miller Bonnie L .
The computer name is not over 15 characters long?
Can you look up the domain by name via nslookup?
Can you ping all of the dcs in your site by fqdn?

-B

From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

Sorry for that.
This is a XP sp3 box with hard wired IP addresses for machine and DNS servers 
The machine was renamed while not on the domain.  I have added the machine name 
in AD and done both direct add and network discovery.

Bob
IT Manager

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

you don't give much to go on, like the OS of the workstation, what version of 
domain ( 2003 AD, 2008 AD, etc )
Have you checked for duplicate machine name, tried NewSid, verified your DNS is 
pointing to a DC, check DNS for your workstation record, etc ...
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Bob Anderson 
bander...@kentwatersports.commailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com wrote:
Hello,
   I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
• Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~










~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread Bob Anderson
Bonnie,
NSlookup returns both DC by name and ping works to both DCs 
Computer name is 10 characters long

Bob
IT Manager

From: Miller Bonnie L. [mailto:mille...@mukilteo.wednet.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:53 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

The computer name is not over 15 characters long?
Can you look up the domain by name via nslookup?
Can you ping all of the dcs in your site by fqdn?

-B

From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

Sorry for that.
This is a XP sp3 box with hard wired IP addresses for machine and DNS servers 
The machine was renamed while not on the domain.  I have added the machine name 
in AD and done both direct add and network discovery.

Bob
IT Manager

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

you don't give much to go on, like the OS of the workstation, what version of 
domain ( 2003 AD, 2008 AD, etc )
Have you checked for duplicate machine name, tried NewSid, verified your DNS is 
pointing to a DC, check DNS for your workstation record, etc ...
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Bob Anderson 
bander...@kentwatersports.commailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com wrote:
Hello,
   I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far as 
entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back with:  The 
network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can get emails from 
the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
• Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~














~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread Christopher Bodnar
when you specify the domain to join, have you tried both NetBIOS name and 
FQDN? For example ACME vs. ACME.COM ? Also how are you specifying the 
admin credentials? acme\jdoe  ? Have you tried using a UPN 
(j...@acme.com)? 


Chris Bodnar, MCSE
Systems Engineer
Distributed Systems Service Delivery - Intel Services
Guardian Life Insurance Company of America
Email: christopher_bod...@glic.com
Phone: 610-807-6459
Fax: 610-807-6003



From:   Bob Anderson bander...@kentwatersports.com
To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com
Date:   04/06/2010 09:32 AM
Subject:Unable to join computer to Domain



Hello,
 I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get 
as far as entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back 
with:  The network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can 
get emails from the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
�� Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~



-
This message, and any attachments to it, may contain information
that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under
applicable law.  If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution, copying, or communication of this message is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the
message and any attachments.  Thank you.
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~


RE: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread Mayo, Bill
If the computer somehow got renamed while off the domain, I would assume
that the link between the computer account and the domain is broken.
What I would suggest is:
 
1) Delete the computer account via ADUC.
2) On the computer, change the domain to a temporary workgroup and
reboot.
3) After rebooting, change the domain back to your domain. 
 
Bill Mayo



From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain



Sorry for that.  

This is a XP sp3 box with hard wired IP addresses for machine and DNS
servers The machine was renamed while not on the domain.  I have added
the machine name in AD and done both direct add and network discovery.

 

Bob 

IT Manager

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

 

you don't give much to go on, like the OS of the workstation, what
version of domain ( 2003 AD, 2008 AD, etc )

Have you checked for duplicate machine name, tried NewSid, verified your
DNS is pointing to a DC, check DNS for your workstation record, etc ...

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Bob Anderson
bander...@kentwatersports.com wrote:

Hello,
   I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far
as entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back
with:  The network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can
get emails from the domain but just not join it

Thanks in advance
Bob Anderson

IT Manager
Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

 

 

 

 

 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: Unable to join computer to Domain

2010-04-06 Thread Harry Singh
Nltest /sc_verify:domain from the workstation.

On 4/6/10, Mayo, Bill bem...@pittcountync.gov wrote:
 If the computer somehow got renamed while off the domain, I would assume
 that the link between the computer account and the domain is broken.
 What I would suggest is:

 1) Delete the computer account via ADUC.
 2) On the computer, change the domain to a temporary workgroup and
 reboot.
 3) After rebooting, change the domain back to your domain.

 Bill Mayo

 

 From: Bob Anderson [mailto:bander...@kentwatersports.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:49 AM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: RE: Unable to join computer to Domain



 Sorry for that.

 This is a XP sp3 box with hard wired IP addresses for machine and DNS
 servers The machine was renamed while not on the domain.  I have added
 the machine name in AD and done both direct add and network discovery.



 Bob

 IT Manager



 From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:40 AM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: Unable to join computer to Domain



 you don't give much to go on, like the OS of the workstation, what
 version of domain ( 2003 AD, 2008 AD, etc )

 Have you checked for duplicate machine name, tried NewSid, verified your
 DNS is pointing to a DC, check DNS for your workstation record, etc ...

 On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Bob Anderson
 bander...@kentwatersports.com wrote:

 Hello,
I have a computer that refuses to join the domain. I get as far
 as entering the admin password to join the domain and it comes back
 with:  The network location cannot be reachedHowever the machine can
 get emails from the domain but just not join it

 Thanks in advance
 Bob Anderson

 IT Manager
 Kent Sporting Goods Inc.
 433 Park Ave. S
 New London OH 44851
 419-929-7021 x315
 P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
 ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~












 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
 ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~