Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee buyers, etc.)?
Perception is a funny thing.
Why is it that these coffee shop owners no longer see wireless as a
way to draw additional customers? In other words, are they taking
these customers for granted because they sit too long?
Is user behavior different when node use is free? Do they feel
obliged to buy more? Do free node users spend less time "camping"
because their use is more casual?
It would be very worthwhile to do a formal study.
---> Joe
At 11:31 PM -0400 9/30/03, Anthony Townsend wrote:
I think that no one has systematically asked these questions.
In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about
wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional
purchases. Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has
deliberately disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers
in their stores.
On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 07:20 pm, freelance writer wrote:
I promise to quiet down after this new thread, but my original
question about how to convince a small-business owner to share
their connection has raised a question which I think deserves some
consideration.
Are there any poll or survey results out there that would give a
small business-owner a good idea of what to expect if he or she
were to provide free wireless access?
Answering questions like
* "How much more time will a wireless laptop user spend than a
regular customer?"
* "What percentage of wireless users would go to a say, coffee shop
that provided access v. one that didn't? ("And what distances would
they go to do so, etc?"
* "How many purchases can the average coffee shop wireless user be
expected to make?"
I would have expected there to be dozens of studies, but I haven't
found any raw data or any journalistic references. Can someone
point me in the right direction, or, alternately, would anyone like
to help me in coordinating such a survey? I think it could be
really useful.
Thanks,
Dan
_
Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from
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===
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459 Broadway 2nd Floor
New York, NY 10013
vox: 212.982.9800
fax: 212.982.5499
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RE: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffeebuyers, etc.)?
I think something that might work... Is making the portal an additional
Point of Sale of the store owner. Have an order entry system built into
the portal. When users place orders through the portal their account is
given time credits. Their beverage get delivered to the table. They pay
up their cash and get to surf during the process. Keep a database
function running as a timer that decrements minutes from all the users
with currently active sessions. And you might have a good product...
Then again I could just want a method to avoid standing in line. With a
solution like that you can at least take some load off the staff
handling customer orders, avoid having the staff deal telling people the
new password information, collect demographics on your clientele,
collect clientele contact information, etc, etc, etc.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of freelance
writer
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by
coffeebuyers, etc.)?
Anthony,
Thanks for the response. I agree with you about the fear, but I wonder
how
much of it is myth.
Would anyone want to help find out?
I'm not a programmer, so I couldn't even do this in software, but also
wonder if anyone out there might be able to put together a turnkey box
like
the one I mentioned in my prior email, which would essentially time
connections out every x amount of time (hour and a half?), requiring
people
to purchase and not just lurk/leech. Not sure how it would work - maybe
just change a captive portal password hourly and display it on a
LCD/monitor
only staff can see?
Dan
>From: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "freelance writer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by
coffee
>buyers, etc.)?
>Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:31:04 -0400
>
>I think that no one has systematically asked these questions.
>
>In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about
>wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional
purchases.
>Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has deliberately
>disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers in their stores.
>
>On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 07:20 pm, freelance writer wrote:
>
>>I promise to quiet down after this new thread, but my original
question
>>about how to convince a small-business owner to share their connection
has
>>raised a question which I think deserves some consideration.
>>
>>Are there any poll or survey results out there that would give a small
>>business-owner a good idea of what to expect if he or she were to
provide
>>free wireless access?
>>
>>Answering questions like
>>* "How much more time will a wireless laptop user spend than a regular
>>customer?"
>>
>>* "What percentage of wireless users would go to a say, coffee shop
that
>>provided access v. one that didn't? ("And what distances would they go
to
>>do so, etc?"
>>
>>* "How many purchases can the average coffee shop wireless user be
>>expected to make?"
>>
>>I would have expected there to be dozens of studies, but I haven't
found
>>any raw data or any journalistic references. Can someone point me in
the
>>right direction, or, alternately, would anyone like to help me in
>>coordinating such a survey? I think it could be really useful.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>_
>>Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from
McAfee.
>>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>>
>>--
>>NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/
>>Un/Subscribe:
http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/
>>Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
>>
>
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Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffeebuyers, etc.)?
it really already exists in DHCP extensions but there are lack of clients using it ... ive always felt that there should be DHCP clients made exclusively w/ wireless extensions that could do safe messaging/polling ... (or overall work on establishing a secure protocol just for WiFi stuff - something that would avoid popup spam hell). its not really a matter of building something new as it is to getting an extension built into all the clients someone might use to connect on all different devices + operating systems. in the meantime it would be worthwhile to do say a 5 question survey on the free nodes before the user agreement or something + publish the results openly. - jon > wonder if anyone out there might be able to put together a turnkey box like > the one I mentioned in my prior email, which would essentially time > connections out every x amount of time (hour and a half?), requiring people > to purchase and not just lurk/leech. Not sure how it would -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
[nycwireless] Re: nycwireless Digest, Vol 8, Issue 1
I've tried verizon, and it rocks. Coverage everywhere, and it is reasonably speedy (at least 56k most of the time) Stay as far away from t-mobile as you can. I've used their network, and I consistently get 80% packet loss and speeds around that of a 1200 bps modem. It took 10 minutes to load yahoo.com. *D a n a S p i e g e l* *s o c i a b l e D E S I G N* *::* *www.sociableDESIGN.com* 123 Bank Street, Suite 510, New York, NY 10014 p +1 917 402 0422 :: e [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [nycwireless] cellular data services? From: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:28:32 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Has anyone seen a comparison of the all-you-can-eat 2.5G cellular data services? Any personal raves/rants TMobile Verizon Express SprintPCS Vision thanks -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
[nycwireless] Re: Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee buyers, etc.)?
What if there were a coffee shop where coffee and snacks were free, but Internet access, newspapers, power connections, copy machines, etc. had a fee, and to stay there you had to spend a certain amount per hour. And if you could earn credit by working there or providing your skilled labor - sys admin, graphic design, carpentry. Wrap your head around that one. Josh >Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:31:04 -0400 >From: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee buyers, >etc.)? >To: "freelance writer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > >I think that nosone has systematscally asked these questions. > >In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about >wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional >purchases. Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has >deliberately disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers in >their stores. > -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee buyers, etc.)?
There seems to be a lot of support for doing this sort of poll and so far,
no objections. Does the nycwireleless "staff" think its merit is sufficient
to use the nycwireless site (and hence visitors and community) as one means
of testing? Some kind of pop-up or sidebar, etc?
From: Joe Plotkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"freelance writer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee
buyers, etc.)?
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:09:31 -0400
Perception is a funny thing.
Why is it that these coffee shop owners no longer see wireless as a way to
draw additional customers? In other words, are they taking these customers
for granted because they sit too long?
Is user behavior different when node use is free? Do they feel obliged to
buy more? Do free node users spend less time "camping" because their use is
more casual?
It would be very worthwhile to do a formal study.
---> Joe
At 11:31 PM -0400 9/30/03, Anthony Townsend wrote:
I think that no one has systematically asked these questions.
In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about
wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional
purchases. Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has
deliberately disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers in
their stores.
On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 07:20 pm, freelance writer wrote:
I promise to quiet down after this new thread, but my original question
about how to convince a small-business owner to share their connection
has raised a question which I think deserves some consideration.
Are there any poll or survey results out there that would give a small
business-owner a good idea of what to expect if he or she were to provide
free wireless access?
Answering questions like
* "How much more time will a wireless laptop user spend than a regular
customer?"
* "What percentage of wireless users would go to a say, coffee shop that
provided access v. one that didn't? ("And what distances would they go to
do so, etc?"
* "How many purchases can the average coffee shop wireless user be
expected to make?"
I would have expected there to be dozens of studies, but I haven't found
any raw data or any journalistic references. Can someone point me in the
right direction, or, alternately, would anyone like to help me in
coordinating such a survey? I think it could be really useful.
Thanks,
Dan
_
Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
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===
Joe Plotkin
DSL/Marketing
Bway.net - NYC's Best Internet
===
Bway.net
459 Broadway 2nd Floor
New York, NY 10013
vox: 212.982.9800
fax: 212.982.5499
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
xDSL info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.bway.net
===
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Re: [nycwireless] Re: nycwireless Digest, Vol 8, Issue 1
I'm sorry, I'd have to disagree. I've used T-mobile extensively in my travels around the country, up to an including last week in Las Vegas and have never experienced the speeds you mention. I generally find their connection quite fast. I will probably be using them a lot less now that they are doing away with their prepaid plans (once I use up the minutes I already have) but connection speed has never been an issue anywhere I tried using them. Dana Spiegel wrote: > > I've tried verizon, and it rocks. Coverage everywhere, and it is > reasonably speedy (at least 56k most of the time) > Stay as far away from t-mobile as you can. I've used their network, and > I consistently get 80% packet loss and speeds around that of a 1200 bps > modem. It took 10 minutes to load yahoo.com. > > *D a n a S p i e g e l* > *s o c i a b l e D E S I G N* *::* *www.sociableDESIGN.com* > 123 Bank Street, Suite 510, New York, NY 10014 > p +1 917 402 0422 :: e [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Subject: > > [nycwireless] cellular data services? > > From: > > Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: > > Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:28:32 -0400 > > > > To: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Has anyone seen a comparison of the all-you-can-eat 2.5G cellular data > > services? Any personal raves/rants > > > > TMobile > > Verizon Express > > SprintPCS Vision > > > > thanks > > -- > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffeebuyers, etc.)?
Hello All,
I don't know if the NYCw website would be best for this, especially
since many wireless visitors of stores are not NYCw members. Unless we want
to stack the deck for wireless locations. I think a better approach would be
if someone camped out at a free & paid wireless location to ask a series of
questions to each wireless user. And better yet, while conduct these surveys
to have a laptop with a sign on the back saying, "Got Wireless? Yes, It's
Here!" To talk with potential wireless users, on why they don't do wireless
outside of their house, or explain the pros and cons.
-Ben
- Original Message -
From: "freelance writer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by
coffeebuyers, etc.)?
> There seems to be a lot of support for doing this sort of poll and so far,
> no objections. Does the nycwireleless "staff" think its merit is
sufficient
> to use the nycwireless site (and hence visitors and community) as one
means
> of testing? Some kind of pop-up or sidebar, etc?
>
>
> >From: Joe Plotkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"freelance writer"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee
> >buyers, etc.)?
> >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:09:31 -0400
> >
> >
> >Perception is a funny thing.
> >
> >Why is it that these coffee shop owners no longer see wireless as a way
to
> >draw additional customers? In other words, are they taking these
customers
> >for granted because they sit too long?
> >
> >Is user behavior different when node use is free? Do they feel obliged
to
> >buy more? Do free node users spend less time "camping" because their use
is
> >more casual?
> >
> >It would be very worthwhile to do a formal study.
> >
> >---> Joe
> >
> >At 11:31 PM -0400 9/30/03, Anthony Townsend wrote:
> >>I think that no one has systematically asked these questions.
> >>
> >>In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about
> >>wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional
> >>purchases. Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has
> >>deliberately disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers in
> >>their stores.
> >>
> >>On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 07:20 pm, freelance writer wrote:
> >>
> >>>I promise to quiet down after this new thread, but my original question
> >>>about how to convince a small-business owner to share their connection
> >>>has raised a question which I think deserves some consideration.
> >>>
> >>>Are there any poll or survey results out there that would give a small
> >>>business-owner a good idea of what to expect if he or she were to
provide
> >>>free wireless access?
> >>>
> >>>Answering questions like
> >>>* "How much more time will a wireless laptop user spend than a regular
> >>>customer?"
> >>>
> >>>* "What percentage of wireless users would go to a say, coffee shop
that
> >>>provided access v. one that didn't? ("And what distances would they go
to
> >>>do so, etc?"
> >>>
> >>>* "How many purchases can the average coffee shop wireless user be
> >>>expected to make?"
> >>>
> >>>I would have expected there to be dozens of studies, but I haven't
found
> >>>any raw data or any journalistic references. Can someone point me in
the
> >>>right direction, or, alternately, would anyone like to help me in
> >>>coordinating such a survey? I think it could be really useful.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Dan
> >>>
> >>>_
> >>>Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from
McAfee.
> >>>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/
> >>>Un/Subscribe:
http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/
> >>>Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
> >>>
> >>
> >>--
> >>NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/
> >>Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/
> >>Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
> >
> >
> >--
> >===
> >Joe Plotkin
> >DSL/Marketing
> >Bway.net - NYC's Best Internet
> >===
> >Bway.net
> >459 Broadway 2nd Floor
> >New York, NY 10013
> >
> >vox: 212.982.9800
> >fax: 212.982.5499
> >email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >xDSL info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >web: http://www.bway.net
> >===
>
> _
> Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now
> FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com
>
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> Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
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Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (bycoffeebuyers, etc.)?
Ben,
I don't think that that the nycw site should be the only source, but I do
think it's a good place to reach a lot of wireless users. Only asking
people who aren't in the know, so to speak, is not necessarily ideal,
either. I think we should do both: I aso agree about the
camp-out-at-coffe-shops thing (free and paid), and would be willing to do
some of that myself.
Dan
From: "Ben N. Serebin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage
(bycoffeebuyers, etc.)?
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:39:11 -0400
Hello All,
I don't know if the NYCw website would be best for this,
especially
since many wireless visitors of stores are not NYCw members. Unless we want
to stack the deck for wireless locations. I think a better approach would
be
if someone camped out at a free & paid wireless location to ask a series of
questions to each wireless user. And better yet, while conduct these
surveys
to have a laptop with a sign on the back saying, "Got Wireless? Yes, It's
Here!" To talk with potential wireless users, on why they don't do wireless
outside of their house, or explain the pros and cons.
-Ben
- Original Message -
From: "freelance writer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by
coffeebuyers, etc.)?
> There seems to be a lot of support for doing this sort of poll and so
far,
> no objections. Does the nycwireleless "staff" think its merit is
sufficient
> to use the nycwireless site (and hence visitors and community) as one
means
> of testing? Some kind of pop-up or sidebar, etc?
>
>
> >From: Joe Plotkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"freelance
writer"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by
coffee
> >buyers, etc.)?
> >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:09:31 -0400
> >
> >
> >Perception is a funny thing.
> >
> >Why is it that these coffee shop owners no longer see wireless as a way
to
> >draw additional customers? In other words, are they taking these
customers
> >for granted because they sit too long?
> >
> >Is user behavior different when node use is free? Do they feel obliged
to
> >buy more? Do free node users spend less time "camping" because their
use
is
> >more casual?
> >
> >It would be very worthwhile to do a formal study.
> >
> >---> Joe
> >
> >At 11:31 PM -0400 9/30/03, Anthony Townsend wrote:
> >>I think that no one has systematically asked these questions.
> >>
> >>In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about
> >>wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional
> >>purchases. Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has
> >>deliberately disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers in
> >>their stores.
> >>
> >>On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 07:20 pm, freelance writer wrote:
> >>
> >>>I promise to quiet down after this new thread, but my original
question
> >>>about how to convince a small-business owner to share their
connection
> >>>has raised a question which I think deserves some consideration.
> >>>
> >>>Are there any poll or survey results out there that would give a
small
> >>>business-owner a good idea of what to expect if he or she were to
provide
> >>>free wireless access?
> >>>
> >>>Answering questions like
> >>>* "How much more time will a wireless laptop user spend than a
regular
> >>>customer?"
> >>>
> >>>* "What percentage of wireless users would go to a say, coffee shop
that
> >>>provided access v. one that didn't? ("And what distances would they
go
to
> >>>do so, etc?"
> >>>
> >>>* "How many purchases can the average coffee shop wireless user be
> >>>expected to make?"
> >>>
> >>>I would have expected there to be dozens of studies, but I haven't
found
> >>>any raw data or any journalistic references. Can someone point me in
the
> >>>right direction, or, alternately, would anyone like to help me in
> >>>coordinating such a survey? I think it could be really useful.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Dan
> >>>
> >>>_
> >>>Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from
McAfee.
> >>>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/
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> >Joe Plotkin
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Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (bycoffeebuyers, etc.)?
Actually I agree with Ben here. If we want to pursue this research it
needs to be statistically valid and conducted professionally. Having
a self-selected group of NYCw users fill out a form on our own
website is not gonna give us valid results.
It would be good to find out how many wireless-capable coffee
drinkers know about all the free and paid options they have; what do
they choose and why. Might help us decide where to put our outreach
energies.
There are professional firms that do this sort of thing -- although
we would need to find sponsors to foot the bill. But its not
impossible, right?
-> Joe
At 12:03 PM -0400 10/1/03, freelance writer wrote:
Ben,
I don't think that that the nycw site should be the only source, but
I do think it's a good place to reach a lot of wireless users. Only
asking people who aren't in the know, so to speak, is not
necessarily ideal, either. I think we should do both: I aso
agree about the camp-out-at-coffe-shops thing (free and paid), and
would be willing to do some of that myself.
Dan
From: "Ben N. Serebin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage
(bycoffeebuyers, etc.)?
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:39:11 -0400
Hello All,
I don't know if the NYCw website would be best for this, especially
since many wireless visitors of stores are not NYCw members. Unless we want
to stack the deck for wireless locations. I think a better approach would be
if someone camped out at a free & paid wireless location to ask a series of
questions to each wireless user. And better yet, while conduct these surveys
to have a laptop with a sign on the back saying, "Got Wireless? Yes, It's
Here!" To talk with potential wireless users, on why they don't do wireless
outside of their house, or explain the pros and cons.
-Ben
- Original Message -
From: "freelance writer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by
coffeebuyers, etc.)?
There seems to be a lot of support for doing this sort of poll and so far,
no objections. Does the nycwireleless "staff" think its merit is
sufficient
to use the nycwireless site (and hence visitors and community) as one
means
of testing? Some kind of pop-up or sidebar, etc?
>From: Joe Plotkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"freelance writer"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee
>buyers, etc.)?
>Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:09:31 -0400
>
>
>Perception is a funny thing.
>
>Why is it that these coffee shop owners no longer see wireless as a way
to
>draw additional customers? In other words, are they taking these
customers
>for granted because they sit too long?
>
>Is user behavior different when node use is free? Do they feel obliged
to
>buy more? Do free node users spend less time "camping" because their use
is
>more casual?
>
>It would be very worthwhile to do a formal study.
>
>---> Joe
>
>At 11:31 PM -0400 9/30/03, Anthony Townsend wrote:
>>I think that no one has systematically asked these questions.
>>
>>In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about
>>wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional
>>purchases. Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has
>>deliberately disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers in
>>their stores.
>>
>>On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 07:20 pm, freelance writer wrote:
>>
>>>I promise to quiet down after this new thread, but my original question
> >>>about how to convince a small-business owner to share their connection
>>>has raised a question which I think deserves some consideration.
>>>
>>>Are there any poll or survey results out there that would give a small
>>>business-owner a good idea of what to expect if he or she were to
provide
>>>free wireless access?
>>>
>>>Answering questions like
>>>* "How much more time will a wireless laptop user spend than a regular
>>>customer?"
>>>
>>>* "What percentage of wireless users would go to a say, coffee shop
that
>>>provided access v. one that didn't? ("And what distances would they go
to
>>>do so, etc?"
>>>
>>>* "How many purchases can the average coffee shop wireless user be
>>>expected to make?"
>>>
>>>I would have expected there to be dozens of studies, but I haven't
found
>>>any raw data or any journalistic references. Can someone point me in
the
>>>right direction, or, alternately, would anyone like to help me in
>>>coordinating such a survey? I think it could be really useful.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>_
>>>Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from
McAfee.
>>>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clini
[nycwireless] 802.11g enhancement war heats up
802.11g enhancement war heats up 802.11g has not been in the market for long, but different vendors already compete with each other to make it go faster. Netgear recently launched its Super-G chip, claiming it could reach speeds of up to 108 Mbps. Now D-Link is bringing out a new chip, based on an alternative standard, which it claims is as fast as Netgear's. D-Link is more modest in its claim, however, saying that its DWL2000AP+ offers a "practical" throughput of around 34 Mbps. D-Link says that this is the same practical throughput one will get from Super-G. Practical speeds are always slower than theoretical speeds, so that the standard 802.11g, boasting 54 Mbps, in reality delivers a throughput closer to 28 Mbps. Netgrear and D-Link are using different technologies, neither of which specification is yet an accepted standard. Netgear is using the Atheros chipset, and it appears to use channel bonding using multiple radio slots for transmission. D-Link uses the TI chipset, which includes the PBCC modulation technology. Both standards only give the speed boost when the access point and Wi-Fi card come from the same vendor. D-Link says the TI scheme is better because it is more about compression of the data before it hits the airwaves and does not preclude transmission of normal 802.11b data at the same time as g+. It also has a heritage, as TI offered a similar speed boost to 802.11b, called b+. The IEEE's 802.11 standards site does not make any explicit reference to either method, so the market may well decide the winner. Prices are not yet available, but g+ should add no more than $15 to $20 to the price of a standard 802.11g base station. links: http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=displaynews&NewsID=494 http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/092980211n.html - jon pgp key: http://www.jonbaer.net/jonbaer.asc fingerprint: F438 A47E C45E 8B27 F68C 1F9B 41DB DB8B 9A0C AF47 -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (bycoffeebuyers, etc.)?
My primary interest here is in getting the data, so I'm not picky on how it gets done (I agree that a home-brew poll is probably sub-ideal). I'm willing to help in any way, meaning that if someone wants to deputize me to act in the interests of NYCw, I can make some phone calls to polling firms (as the hotmail nick suggests, I'm a writer and have some contacts who might be useful) and potential sponsers. I'd like to be involved no matter what, but if Terry/Ben/Dustin et al think they should make the calls, that would also work. From: Joe Plotkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "freelance writer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (bycoffeebuyers, etc.)? Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:16:26 -0400 Actually I agree with Ben here. If we want to pursue this research it needs to be statistically valid and conducted professionally. Having a self-selected group of NYCw users fill out a form on our own website is not gonna give us valid results. It would be good to find out how many wireless-capable coffee drinkers know about all the free and paid options they have; what do they choose and why. Might help us decide where to put our outreach energies. There are professional firms that do this sort of thing -- although we would need to find sponsors to foot the bill. But its not impossible, right? -> Joe At 12:03 PM -0400 10/1/03, freelance writer wrote: Ben, I don't think that that the nycw site should be the only source, but I do think it's a good place to reach a lot of wireless users. Only asking people who aren't in the know, so to speak, is not necessarily ideal, either. I think we should do both: I aso agree about the camp-out-at-coffe-shops thing (free and paid), and would be willing to do some of that myself. Dan From: "Ben N. Serebin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (bycoffeebuyers, etc.)? Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:39:11 -0400 Hello All, I don't know if the NYCw website would be best for this, especially since many wireless visitors of stores are not NYCw members. Unless we want to stack the deck for wireless locations. I think a better approach would be if someone camped out at a free & paid wireless location to ask a series of questions to each wireless user. And better yet, while conduct these surveys to have a laptop with a sign on the back saying, "Got Wireless? Yes, It's Here!" To talk with potential wireless users, on why they don't do wireless outside of their house, or explain the pros and cons. -Ben - Original Message - From: "freelance writer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffeebuyers, etc.)? There seems to be a lot of support for doing this sort of poll and so far, no objections. Does the nycwireleless "staff" think its merit is sufficient to use the nycwireless site (and hence visitors and community) as one means of testing? Some kind of pop-up or sidebar, etc? >From: Joe Plotkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Anthony Townsend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"freelance writer" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (by coffee >buyers, etc.)? >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:09:31 -0400 > > >Perception is a funny thing. > >Why is it that these coffee shop owners no longer see wireless as a way to >draw additional customers? In other words, are they taking these customers >for granted because they sit too long? > >Is user behavior different when node use is free? Do they feel obliged to >buy more? Do free node users spend less time "camping" because their use is >more casual? > >It would be very worthwhile to do a formal study. > >---> Joe > >At 11:31 PM -0400 9/30/03, Anthony Townsend wrote: >>I think that no one has systematically asked these questions. >> >>In fact, I think that many coffee shop owners are not excited about >>wireless users lurking since they don't make a lot of additional >>purchases. Rumor has it that more than one Starbucks' manager has >>deliberately disconnected the Tmobile APs to deter wireless campers in >>their stores. >> >>On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 07:20 pm, freelance writer wrote: >> >>>I promise to quiet down after this new thread, but my original question > >>>about how to convince a small-business owner to share their connection >>>has raised a question which I think deserves some consideration. >>> >>>Are there any poll or survey results out there that would give a small >>>business-owner a good idea of what to expect if he or she were to provide >>>free wireless access? >>> >>>Answering questions like >>>* "How much more time will a wireless laptop user spend than a r
Re: [nycwireless] Polls/surveys about wireless usage (bycoffeebuyers, etc.)?
can we summarize quickly how this poll would further the NYCwireless mission? (and for god's sake, please clip your replies) On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 01:40 pm, freelance writer wrote: My primary interest here is in getting the data, so I'm not picky on how it gets done (I agree that a home-brew poll is probably sub-ideal). I'm willing to help in any way, meaning that if someone wants to deputize me to act in the interests of NYCw, I can make some phone calls to polling firms (as the hotmail nick suggests, I'm a writer and have some contacts who might be useful) and potential sponsers. I'd like to be involved no matter what, but if Terry/Ben/Dustin et al think they should make the calls, that would also work. -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
Re: [nycwireless] 802.11g enhancement war heats up
Does anyone on list have any experience with either of these 802.11g chipsets? The most important question for me is how do these compare to the ORiNOCO Silver and and Cisco 350 for range when talking to 802.11b networks? Also what kind of driver support do they have. How good is the xBSD, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, Linux support? How is their support for older DOS based Windows clients such as Win97, WinME? -- Daniel << When truth is outlawed; only outlaws will tell the truth. >> - RLiegh On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, jon baer wrote: ]802.11g enhancement war heats up ]802.11g has not been in the market for long, but different vendors already ]compete with each other to make it go faster. Netgear recently launched its ]Super-G chip, claiming it could reach speeds of up to 108 Mbps. Now D-Link ]is bringing out a new chip, based on an alternative standard, which it ]claims is as fast as Netgear's. D-Link is more modest in its claim, however, ]saying that its DWL2000AP+ offers a "practical" throughput of around 34 ]Mbps. D-Link says that this is the same practical throughput one will get ]from Super-G. Practical speeds are always slower than theoretical speeds, so ]that the standard 802.11g, boasting 54 Mbps, in reality delivers a ]throughput closer to 28 Mbps. Netgrear and D-Link are using different ]technologies, neither of which specification is yet an accepted standard. ]Netgear is using the Atheros chipset, and it appears to use channel bonding ]using multiple radio slots for transmission. D-Link uses the TI chipset, ]which includes the PBCC modulation technology. Both standards only give the ]speed boost when the access point and Wi-Fi card come from the same vendor. ]D-Link says the TI scheme is better because it is more about compression of ]the data before it hits the airwaves and does not preclude transmission of ]normal 802.11b data at the same time as g+. It also has a heritage, as TI ]offered a similar speed boost to 802.11b, called b+. The IEEE's 802.11 ]standards site does not make any explicit reference to either method, so the ]market may well decide the winner. Prices are not yet available, but g+ ]should add no more than $15 to $20 to the price of a standard 802.11g base ]station. ] ]links: ] ]http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=displaynews&NewsID=494 ] ]http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/092980211n.html ] ]- jon ] ]pgp key: http://www.jonbaer.net/jonbaer.asc ]fingerprint: F438 A47E C45E 8B27 F68C 1F9B 41DB DB8B 9A0C AF47 ] ]-- ]NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ ]Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ ]Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ ] -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
