[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Geoff Huston]

> On 13 Jul 2022, at 4:40 pm, Brian E Carpenter  
> wrote:
> 
> On 14-Jul-22 10:45, Jay Daley wrote:
>>> On 13 Jul 2022, at 23:36, Stan Rivett >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As a small ISP, my question is, what benefit do I get by adding IPv6? I 
>>> have enough IPv4 addresses for all my clients and although I get the 
>>> occasional client asking when we'll make IPv6 available, when I ask them 
>>> why they want it, the answer is mostly something that sounds like "because 
>>> IPv6"
>> It’s not all in one direction - Do you provide hosting services and if so 
>> then do those people who host with you want to maximise the reach of 
>> whatever it is they are hosting?
> 
> If they have good reason to handle IPv6 clients at scale, they can always use 
> Cloudflare while remaining on IPv4 in-house. I don't know if Cloudflare 
> publish stats.

There is https://radar.cloudflare.com/

I’m not sure what the IPv6 section of that report is measuring - Traffic 
volumes? session counts? Something else?

Geoff
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Brian E Carpenter]

On 14-Jul-22 10:45, Jay Daley wrote:




On 13 Jul 2022, at 23:36, Stan Rivett mailto:s...@netspeed.nz>> wrote:


As a small ISP, my question is, what benefit do I get by adding IPv6? I have enough IPv4 
addresses for all my clients and although I get the occasional client asking when we'll 
make IPv6 available, when I ask them why they want it, the answer is mostly something 
that sounds like "because IPv6"


It’s not all in one direction - Do you provide hosting services and if so then 
do those people who host with you want to maximise the reach of whatever it is 
they are hosting?


If they have good reason to handle IPv6 clients at scale, they can always use 
Cloudflare while remaining on IPv4 in-house. I don't know if Cloudflare publish 
stats.

   Brian



Jay



Stan Rivett
--
Netspeed
PO Box 5691
Dunedin
P: +64 3 481 7245
C: +64 21 323 841
--


On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 at 09:47, Brian E Carpenter mailto:brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If that anecdote is true, they're doing something wrong. What I hear is 
there is no performance impact in general, with some reports of bulk data 
moving faster with IPv6 (probably due to some kind of MTU issue).

Regards
    Brian Carpenter

On 14-Jul-22 09:16, Juha Saarinen wrote:
> Anecdotally, I’m hearing that some smaller ISPs don’t run IPv6 on their 
networks because it kills performance for their customers.
>
> Doesn’t seem like the right way to fix the issue, but small budgets etc.
>
> –
> Juha Saarinen
> https://twitter.com/juhasaarinen 
>
>> On 14/07/2022, at 08:52, Matt Brown mailto:m...@mattb.net.nz>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html 
 
> shows steady growth, and just passed 
the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady progress given the enormity of the protocol changes 
introduced and the lack of backward compatibility.
>>
>> However https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption 
 
> does show 
NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the 3 ISPs I've used recently for various 
residential connections  have made it possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, 
but then it disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :(
>>
>
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Stan Rivett]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 at 10:42, Michael Hallager  wrote:

> On 2022-07-14 10:36, Stan Rivett wrote:
> > As a small ISP, my question is, what benefit do I get by adding IPv6?
> > I have enough IPv4 addresses for all my clients and although I get the
> > occasional client asking when we'll make IPv6 available, when I ask
> > them why they want it, the answer is mostly something that sounds like
> > "because IPv6"
>
> IPv6 is largely not about the client. Its about what is good for the
> co-operative network we call The Internet.
>
> The other benefit is having the network ready and operational for when
> it does become strictly required.
>
> Michael
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Call me a cynic but I suspect I'll be in a rest home by the time that
happens.
Stan
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Ian Batterbee]

That used to be true, due to a lack of ASIC/FPGA acceleration for IPv6
packets, forcing them to go through the control plane.   I would hope that
most, if not all vendors now do hardware switching for IPv6 on anything
build in the last 10 years.



On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 at 09:16, Juha Saarinen  wrote:

> Anecdotally, I’m hearing that some smaller ISPs don’t run IPv6 on their
> networks because it kills performance for their customers.
>
> Doesn’t seem like the right way to fix the issue, but small budgets etc.
>
> –
> Juha Saarinen
> https://twitter.com/juhasaarinen
>
> On 14/07/2022, at 08:52, Matt Brown  wrote:
>
> 
> Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html shows steady
> growth, and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady
> progress given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the lack
> of backward compatibility.
>
> However
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
> does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the
> 3 ISPs I've used recently for various residential connections  have made it
> possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, but then it
> disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :(
>
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Jay Daley]

> On 13 Jul 2022, at 23:36, Stan Rivett  wrote:
> 
> 
> As a small ISP, my question is, what benefit do I get by adding IPv6? I have 
> enough IPv4 addresses for all my clients and although I get the occasional 
> client asking when we'll make IPv6 available, when I ask them why they want 
> it, the answer is mostly something that sounds like "because IPv6"

It’s not all in one direction - Do you provide hosting services and if so then 
do those people who host with you want to maximise the reach of whatever it is 
they are hosting?  

Jay

> 
> Stan Rivett
> --
> Netspeed
> PO Box 5691
> Dunedin
> P: +64 3 481 7245
> C: +64 21 323 841
> --
> 
> 
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 at 09:47, Brian E Carpenter  > wrote:
> If that anecdote is true, they're doing something wrong. What I hear is there 
> is no performance impact in general, with some reports of bulk data moving 
> faster with IPv6 (probably due to some kind of MTU issue).
> 
> Regards
> Brian Carpenter
> 
> On 14-Jul-22 09:16, Juha Saarinen wrote:
> > Anecdotally, I’m hearing that some smaller ISPs don’t run IPv6 on their 
> > networks because it kills performance for their customers.
> > 
> > Doesn’t seem like the right way to fix the issue, but small budgets etc.
> > 
> > –
> > Juha Saarinen
> > https://twitter.com/juhasaarinen 
> > 
> >> On 14/07/2022, at 08:52, Matt Brown  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html 
> >>  
> >>  >> > shows steady 
> >> growth, and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady 
> >> progress given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the 
> >> lack of backward compatibility.
> >>
> >> However 
> >> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
> >>  
> >> 
> >>  
> >>  >>  
> >> >
> >>  does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of 
> >> the 3 ISPs I've used recently for various residential connections  have 
> >> made it possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, 
> >> but then it disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :(
> >>
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Stan Rivett]

As a small ISP, my question is, what benefit do I get by adding IPv6? I
have enough IPv4 addresses for all my clients and although I get the
occasional client asking when we'll make IPv6 available, when I ask them
why they want it, the answer is mostly something that sounds like "because
IPv6"

Stan Rivett
--
Netspeed
PO Box 5691
Dunedin
P: +64 3 481 7245
C: +64 21 323 841
--


On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 at 09:47, Brian E Carpenter 
wrote:

> If that anecdote is true, they're doing something wrong. What I hear is
> there is no performance impact in general, with some reports of bulk data
> moving faster with IPv6 (probably due to some kind of MTU issue).
>
> Regards
> Brian Carpenter
>
> On 14-Jul-22 09:16, Juha Saarinen wrote:
> > Anecdotally, I’m hearing that some smaller ISPs don’t run IPv6 on their
> networks because it kills performance for their customers.
> >
> > Doesn’t seem like the right way to fix the issue, but small budgets etc.
> >
> > –
> > Juha Saarinen
> > https://twitter.com/juhasaarinen
> >
> >> On 14/07/2022, at 08:52, Matt Brown  wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html <
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html> shows steady growth,
> and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady progress
> given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the lack of
> backward compatibility.
> >>
> >> However
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
> <
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption>
> does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the
> 3 ISPs I've used recently for various residential connections  have made it
> possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, but then it
> disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :(
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > NZNOG mailing list -- nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Geoff Huston]

the data shows a slightly higher IPv6 use on weekends and public holidays over 
weekdays. This pattern is more widespread than just NZ of course.

Geoff


> On 13 Jul 2022, at 2:44 pm, Daniel  wrote:
> 
> AS18119 has been providing native V6 for over 15 years and is available on 
> all our connections throughout Australasia and the US.
> 
> That said, only a couple of our business customers use V6.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Geoff Huston 
> To: Matt Brown 
> Cc: Richard Hector , nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz 
> 
> Subject: [nznog] Re: IPv6 status?
> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 21:16:04 +
> 
> A detailed breakdown of what we see using ad-based measurement is at 
> https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/NZ
> .
> 
> Things have been relatively stable since the start of 2020 in NZ. 
> 
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Jul 2022, at 1:51 pm, Matt Brown <
>> m...@mattb.net.nz
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 12:50 AM Richard Hector <
>> rich...@walnut.gen.nz
>> > wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> We've passed the 10th anniversary of World IPv6 Launch Day, but it 
>> doesn't seem like we've got very far?
>> 
>> Globally 
>> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
>>  shows steady growth, and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow 
>> but steady progress given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced 
>> and the lack of backward compatibility.
>> 
>> However 
>> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
>>  does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the 
>> 3 ISPs I've used recently for various residential connections  have made it 
>> possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, but then it 
>> disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :( 
>> 
>> 
>> What happened to the Task Force? The site says it's archived, or is 
>> there a new one?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Richard
>> ___
>> NZNOG mailing list -- 
>> nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz
>> 
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>> nznog-le...@list.waikato.ac.nz
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Matt Brown
>> m...@mattb.net.nz
>> 
>> +64 20 4099 3329 
>> www.mattb.net.nz
>> 
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Geoff Huston]

It sure looks that way!


> On 13 Jul 2022, at 3:03 pm, Ahmad Saeed  wrote:
> 
> Hi
>  
> Just wondering if I’m correct if I say  our largest BB provider is not using 
> IPv6
>  
> https://www.apnic.net/community/ipv6/ipv6-in-your-region/?cc=NZ
>  
> 
>  
> Regards
>  
> Ahmad Saeed
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2022 9:47 AM
> To: Juha Saarinen ; Matt Brown 
> Cc: Richard Hector ; nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz
> Subject: [nznog] Re: IPv6 status?
>  
> If that anecdote is true, they're doing something wrong. What I hear is there 
> is no performance impact in general, with some reports of bulk data moving 
> faster with IPv6 (probably due to some kind of MTU issue).
>  
> Regards
> Brian Carpenter
>  
> On 14-Jul-22 09:16, Juha Saarinen wrote:
> > Anecdotally, I’m hearing that some smaller ISPs don’t run IPv6 on their 
> > networks because it kills performance for their customers.
> > 
> > Doesn’t seem like the right way to fix the issue, but small budgets etc.
> > 
> > –
> > Juha Saarinen
> > https://twitter.com/juhasaarinen
> > 
> >> On 14/07/2022, at 08:52, Matt Brown  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html 
> >>  shows steady growth, 
> >> and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady progress 
> >> given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the lack of 
> >> backward compatibility.
> >> 
> >> However 
> >> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-i
> >> pv6-adoption 
> >>  >> ipv6-adoption> does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% -
> >> anecdotally, none of the 3 ISPs I've used recently for various
> >> residential connections  have made it possible to get IPv6 - Starlink
> >> did for a few months initially, but then it disappeared when they
> >> moved to their NZ routed ranges :(
> >> 
> > 
> > ___
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Brian E Carpenter]

If that anecdote is true, they're doing something wrong. What I hear is there 
is no performance impact in general, with some reports of bulk data moving 
faster with IPv6 (probably due to some kind of MTU issue).

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 14-Jul-22 09:16, Juha Saarinen wrote:

Anecdotally, I’m hearing that some smaller ISPs don’t run IPv6 on their 
networks because it kills performance for their customers.

Doesn’t seem like the right way to fix the issue, but small budgets etc.

–
Juha Saarinen
https://twitter.com/juhasaarinen


On 14/07/2022, at 08:52, Matt Brown  wrote:


Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html 
 shows steady growth, and 
just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady progress given the 
enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the lack of backward compatibility.

However 
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption 

 does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the 3 ISPs 
I've used recently for various residential connections  have made it possible to get 
IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, but then it disappeared when they 
moved to their NZ routed ranges :(



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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Juha Saarinen]

Anecdotally, I’m hearing that some smaller ISPs don’t run IPv6 on their 
networks because it kills performance for their customers.

Doesn’t seem like the right way to fix the issue, but small budgets etc.

– 
Juha Saarinen
https://twitter.com/juhasaarinen 

> On 14/07/2022, at 08:52, Matt Brown  wrote:
> 
> 
> Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html shows steady 
> growth, and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady 
> progress given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the lack 
> of backward compatibility.
> 
> However 
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
>  does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the 3 
> ISPs I've used recently for various residential connections  have made it 
> possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, but then it 
> disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :( 
> 
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Geoff Huston]

A detailed breakdown of what we see using ad-based measurement is at 
https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/NZ.

Things have been relatively stable since the start of 2020 in NZ. 


Geoff



> On 13 Jul 2022, at 1:51 pm, Matt Brown  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 12:50 AM Richard Hector  wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We've passed the 10th anniversary of World IPv6 Launch Day, but it 
> doesn't seem like we've got very far?
> 
> Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html shows steady 
> growth, and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady 
> progress given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the lack 
> of backward compatibility.
> 
> However 
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
>  does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the 3 
> ISPs I've used recently for various residential connections  have made it 
> possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, but then it 
> disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :( 
> 
> 
> What happened to the Task Force? The site says it's archived, or is 
> there a new one?
> 
> Cheers,
> Richard
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Matt Brown
> m...@mattb.net.nz
> +64 20 4099 3329 www.mattb.net.nz
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Matt Brown]

On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 12:50 AM Richard Hector 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We've passed the 10th anniversary of World IPv6 Launch Day, but it
> doesn't seem like we've got very far?
>

Globally https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html shows steady
growth, and just passed the 40% native IPV6 mark. It's slow but steady
progress given the enormity of the protocol changes introduced and the lack
of backward compatibility.

However
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
does show NZ is lagging the average on only 19% - anecdotally, none of the
3 ISPs I've used recently for various residential connections  have made it
possible to get IPv6 - Starlink did for a few months initially, but then it
disappeared when they moved to their NZ routed ranges :(


> What happened to the Task Force? The site says it's archived, or is
> there a new one?
>
> Cheers,
> Richard
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>


-- 
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[nznog] Re: IPv6 status?

[Jay Daley]

> On 13 Jul 2022, at 13:50, Richard Hector  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> We've passed the 10th anniversary of World IPv6 Launch Day, but it doesn't 
> seem like we've got very far?
> 
> What happened to the Task Force? The site says it's archived, or is there a 
> new one?

Not really answering your questions, but if it’s stats you’re after:

https://www.apnic.net/community/ipv6/ipv6-in-your-region/?cc=NZ

From my perspective we’ve come a long way, these things just take time.

Jay

> 
> Cheers,
> Richard
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-- 
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j...@daley.org.nz



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[nznog] IPv6 status?

[Richard Hector]

Hi all,

We've passed the 10th anniversary of World IPv6 Launch Day, but it 
doesn't seem like we've got very far?


What happened to the Task Force? The site says it's archived, or is 
there a new one?


Cheers,
Richard
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