Re: [OGF-L] PI status for works NOT in your section 15
In a message dated 3/1/2005 4:49:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not worried about anything. I posted to a thread on RPG.net where a person was asking about using the terms "beholder" and "mind flayer" and I said that they couldn't be used because they were the declared PI of WotC. I in turn claimed, that the only parties involved in a specific instance of the OGL are those listed in Section 15. I noted that it was a multi-party license involving you with all the parties listed in your Section 15 (the contributors). Further I claimed that only the PI designations in the works that are listed in Section 15 are likely binding on you. Those are the only ones which you have accepted a grant for, and so those are the only parties you owe consideration to, and only in exchange for the grants you have accepted. Were that not the case then you would be bound by every PI designation in every work everywhere even if you had never seen the PI designation. Again, that would raise the issue of third party beneficiaries. I contended that, in terms of OGL applicability, if you didn't use the SRD, then you are not bound by the PI declarations from a work you are not sourcing in your own product, so you wouldn't be bound by the SRD's PI designations. That wouldn't free you from copyright or trademark infringement, just that the PI of the SRD is irrelevant to you if you haven't listed the SRD in your section 15. Anyone other than Chris strongly disagree with these basic premises. Chris seems to think they are flawed in some way. In my opinion, any work not in your Section 15 is a work you haven't accepted a grant from and for which you owe no consideration. Now, an interesting question could arise if you have accepted a grant from work A in work B, are you then bound not to use A's PI in all your subsequent works or only in those which you source directly from work A? Perhaps that's a question for another day. Lee ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [OGF-L] PI status for works NOT in your section 15
On 1 Mar 2005 at 16:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That wouldn't free you from copyright or trademark infringement, just that the PI of the SRD is irrelevant to you if you haven't listed the SRD in your section 15. Unless you are doing a product for Action! (which also uses the OGL - or any other system using the OGL, excepting the d20 System), it is impossible to do a product (using the d20 system) without listing the SRD in your section 15. That is the System Reference Document from which all other products using the (game engine developed by wotc) is a derivative of. If you do not list that in your section 15, then you are in violation of the OGL itself. Remember, the Section 15 is meant to show where your non-original OGC came from. And the SRD is where everything originally came from, at least for the core mechanics. TANSTAAFL Rasyr (Tim Dugger) System Editor Iron Crown Enterprises - http://www.ironcrown.com E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [OGF-L] PI status for works NOT in your section 15
In a message dated 3/1/2005 5:47:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unless you are doing a product for Action! (which also uses the OGL - or any other system using the OGL, excepting the d20 System), it is impossible to do a product (using the d20 system) without listing the SRD in your section 15. That is the "System Reference Document" from which all other products using the (game engine developed by wotc) is a derivative of. You can easily do it. Design your own game. Or use FUDGE. LowDie. Action! There are 3 open systems plus anything you design on your own that doesn't require the SRD. If you do not list that in your section 15, then you are in violation of the OGL itself. Not for your own games (that aren't based on the SRD) and not for those 3 games. And the SRD is where everything originally came from, at least for the core mechanics. No, it's where all d20-based stuff comes from. It's not where everything comes from. Your company, for example, has plenty of things that it could release without the SRD, Tim. Lee ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [OGF-L] PI status for works NOT in your section 15
On 1 Mar 2005 at 18:05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/1/2005 5:47:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unless you are doing a product for Action! (which also uses the OGL - or any other system using the OGL, excepting the d20 System), it is impossible to do a product (using the d20 system) without listing the SRD in your section 15. That is the System Reference Document from which all other products using the (game engine developed by wotc) is a derivative of. You can easily do it. Design your own game. Or use FUDGE. LowDie. Action! There are 3 open systems plus anything you design on your own that doesn't require the SRD. Go back and read the first sentence I wrote... hehe especially the part in the parenthesis. If you do not list that in your section 15, then you are in violation of the OGL itself. Not for your own games (that aren't based on the SRD) and not for those 3 games. And the SRD is where everything originally came from, at least for the core mechanics. No, it's where all d20-based stuff comes from. It's not where everything comes from. Your company, for example, has plenty of things that it could release without the SRD, Tim. Please note that I did take into account that there are other systems using the OGL, and that I was excluding them from my comments. Also, I have absolutely no idea what the situation would be if you were doing something for Action! with the OGL and wanted to use something declared by another company as PI (using the OGL for the d20 system), but my gut instinct says no, because both use the OGL, and thus both would be bound by it, no matter that you are using different system ref docs. TANSTAAFL Rasyr (Tim Dugger) System Editor Iron Crown Enterprises - http://www.ironcrown.com E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [OGF-L] PI status for works NOT in your section 15
In a message dated 3/1/2005 6:27:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Go back and read the first sentence I wrote... hehe especially the part in the parenthesis. I saw it, but I only saw the words "Action System" and my brain blotted out the "or any other system" part. In my enthusiasm I thought of the other two systems that just went OGL. And missed the "or any other systems" part. My bad. Lee ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [OGF-L] PI status for works NOT in your section 15
In a message dated 3/1/2005 6:27:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, I have absolutely no idea what the situation would be if you were doing something for Action! with the OGL and wanted to use something declared by another company as PI (using the OGL for the d20 system), but my gut instinct says no, because both use the OGL, and thus both would be bound by it, no matter that you are using different system ref docs. The reason why I am not certain about this is that there's grant and consideration. I owe you nothing until you give me something (barring third party beneficiaries). So, if you OGL something and put it on the market and I take no OGC from your product, you and I aren't in a contract yet. There's been an offer, but no acceptance of your particular offer. You are not a "Contributor" to my project yet. If I use Mark Arsenault's Action System via the OGL then I have a contract with Mark, but no contract yet with you. That's my gut, right or wrong. Lee ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
