Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project. I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging them from involvement in the project. This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth. I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that sanctions such techniques. If you recall we had a similar wave of such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a different product instead. I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other public website. "Daylight is the best antiseptic" as they say. I am not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public scrutiny loses its potency. But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads. Regards, -Rob
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
+1, what can I say apart from I am still here, and I mean to stay with AOO for a long time. Jan. On 1 November 2012 15:18, Rob Weir wrote: > I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are > being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to > discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project. > I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who > submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging > them from involvement in the project. > > This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth. > > I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and > bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that > sanctions such techniques. If you recall we had a similar wave of > such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external > parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and > telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a > different product instead. > > I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you > to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other > public website. "Daylight is the best antiseptic" as they say. I am > not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public > scrutiny loses its potency. But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads. > > > Regards, > > -Rob >
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
This should be a wake up call for the weak marketing effort it has been going. Lack of connection with major information providers and overal lack of PR. I hope this could change as we move forward. It also puts new light on the discussion on marketing efforts/support, funding and such. On 11/1/12, jan iversen wrote: > +1, what can I say apart from I am still here, and I mean to stay with AOO > for a long time. > > Jan. > > On 1 November 2012 15:18, Rob Weir wrote: > >> I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are >> being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to >> discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project. >> I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who >> submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging >> them from involvement in the project. >> >> This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth. >> >> I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and >> bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that >> sanctions such techniques. If you recall we had a similar wave of >> such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external >> parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and >> telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a >> different product instead. >> >> I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you >> to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other >> public website. "Daylight is the best antiseptic" as they say. I am >> not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public >> scrutiny loses its potency. But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> -Rob >> > -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
2012/11/1 Rob Weir > I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are > being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to > discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project. > I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who > submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging > them from involvement in the project. > > This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth. > > I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and > bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that > sanctions such techniques. If you recall we had a similar wave of > such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external > parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and > telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a > different product instead. > > I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you > to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other > public website. "Daylight is the best antiseptic" as they say. I am > not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public > scrutiny loses its potency. But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads. > There is and always will be people who do not understand what an opensource project is and behave like hooligans "defending" their soccer team. I hope they are just individuals and nothing more, but I fully agree to put each case under daylight. Regards Ricardo > > > Regards, > > -Rob >
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and people who are just blowing hot air. To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum, and have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart marketing, but by showing the developers, that we really care about their contributions. If I may say so, some developers might see "the apache way" as a limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms, I think we really need to focus on "the community" instead of telling people about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat the big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!! Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets not forget why we are all here. Jan On 1 November 2012 17:20, RGB ES wrote: > 2012/11/1 Rob Weir > > > I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are > > being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to > > discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project. > > I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who > > submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging > > them from involvement in the project. > > > > This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth. > > > > I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and > > bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that > > sanctions such techniques. If you recall we had a similar wave of > > such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external > > parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and > > telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a > > different product instead. > > > > I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you > > to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other > > public website. "Daylight is the best antiseptic" as they say. I am > > not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public > > scrutiny loses its potency. But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads. > > > > There is and always will be people who do not understand what an opensource > project is and behave like hooligans "defending" their soccer team. I hope > they are just individuals and nothing more, but I fully agree to put each > case under daylight. > > Regards > Ricardo > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > -Rob > > >
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
Hi Jan, We are all here as individuals with various and different amounts of time and energy. Many are employed to work on OpenOffice, but many like me are volunteers who have demanding day jobs. The key part of the Apache Way is that leadership comes from DOING and COMMUNICATING. You are new here with lots of admirable energy and work! This is what acquires merit in an Apache project! Since we ultimately can only control ourselves, do you have any suggestions about how we can more actively encourage participation? Best Regards, Dave On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:38 AM, jan iversen wrote: > Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and > people who are just blowing hot air. > > To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum, and > have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is > something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart marketing, > but by showing the developers, that we really care about their > contributions. > > If I may say so, some developers might see "the apache way" as a > limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms, I > think we really need to focus on "the community" instead of telling people > about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat the > big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in > EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!! > > Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really > really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets > not forget why we are all here. > > Jan > > On 1 November 2012 17:20, RGB ES wrote: > >> 2012/11/1 Rob Weir >> >>> I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are >>> being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to >>> discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project. >>> I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who >>> submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging >>> them from involvement in the project. >>> >>> This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth. >>> >>> I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and >>> bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that >>> sanctions such techniques. If you recall we had a similar wave of >>> such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external >>> parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and >>> telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a >>> different product instead. >>> >>> I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you >>> to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other >>> public website. "Daylight is the best antiseptic" as they say. I am >>> not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public >>> scrutiny loses its potency. But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads. >>> >> >> There is and always will be people who do not understand what an opensource >> project is and behave like hooligans "defending" their soccer team. I hope >> they are just individuals and nothing more, but I fully agree to put each >> case under daylight. >> >> Regards >> Ricardo >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> -Rob >>> >>
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
On 11/1/12 5:38 PM, jan iversen wrote: > Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and > people who are just blowing hot air. > > To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum, and > have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is > something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart marketing, > but by showing the developers, that we really care about their > contributions. > > If I may say so, some developers might see "the apache way" as a > limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms, I > think we really need to focus on "the community" instead of telling people > about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat the > big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in > EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!! > > Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really > really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets > not forget why we are all here. > well spoken, I can only agree. I think it was important to make it public that strange things are going on and that we don't support such a style. More important is that we focus on our project and that we welcome everybody who is interested to work on one of most important and biggest open source projects. Come and ask -> we the community will answer Come and do something -> we the community will guide you and will help you Come and have fun with us -> the pay for your work/contribution is the assurance that you help to make a product better that is used by millions of people all over the world. More than 22 million downloads, ~1 million per week. That is motivation from my point of view and we can do better in the future ;-) Let us have fun and let us continue our way. Juergen
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: > On 11/1/12 5:38 PM, jan iversen wrote: >> Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and >> people who are just blowing hot air. >> >> To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum, and >> have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is >> something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart marketing, >> but by showing the developers, that we really care about their >> contributions. >> >> If I may say so, some developers might see "the apache way" as a >> limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms, I >> think we really need to focus on "the community" instead of telling people >> about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat the >> big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in >> EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!! >> >> Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really >> really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets >> not forget why we are all here. >> > > well spoken, I can only agree. > > I think it was important to make it public that strange things are going > on and that we don't support such a style. More important is that we > focus on our project and that we welcome everybody who is interested to > work on one of most important and biggest open source projects. > > Come and ask -> we the community will answer > Come and do something -> we the community will guide you and will help you > Come and have fun with us -> the pay for your work/contribution is the > assurance that you help to make a product better that is used by > millions of people all over the world. More than 22 million downloads, > ~1 million per week. That is motivation from my point of view and we can > do better in the future ;-) > I like that last part! We should put that on the home page as a "news story" some time. As for me, I apologize for the distraction. I don't intend to make a big thing about this. My intention was only to make it publicly known that these things are happening. I think that likelihood of a public "outing", if this behavior is repeated, is a sufficient deterrent to repetition. If so, my note has served its purpose. -Rob > Let us have fun and let us continue our way. > > Juergen >
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote: > I think that likelihood of a public > "outing", if this behavior is repeated, is a sufficient deterrent to > repetition. If so, my note has served its purpose. > +1 FC
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
Hi Dave. Even though I have stopped my companies, I still have many other things to do than working on AOO, and when I had my companies I had limited time, so I can for sure follow you. Today I am just trying to help open source as such, because it has helped me a lot in my career. And to answer your question, yes I do have some ideas (but they might be wrong), I have listed some of the important ones below: - We need to focus more on people who want to help, instead of using all the legal stuff (which are necessary) as a buffer not to move things. (e.g. I got 2 volunteers working on a danish translation, highly motivated, now we are discussing details about how to release the stuff). I think Rob is having a lead here with his new web pages. - We do NOT want a war of religions between AOO and others, ASF is well known, upper end of free software, so we should be publicly asking for collaboration. - I think events like ApacheCon is nice, but events like FOSDEM is quite a lot more important for the "ordinary" openSource developer. - I would like to see more "marketing" for developers, instead of businesses...I think we need to get back to roots where a developers think its fun, and pride to develop AOO. We could easily e.g. make challenges like "who can solve this problem". I am new to AOO (so I am either interfering or bringing in new views), but I have quite some years of experience with openSource and I am a strong believer of ASF. The "apache way" is in many ways a limitation, but at the end it is the guarantee for a better end-user product. Please accept my apologies, if I have broken n-policies, but I think the question from Dave was well placed, and well formulated so it deserved a straight answer. Jan. On 1 November 2012 20:51, Dave Fisher wrote: > Hi Jan, > > We are all here as individuals with various and different amounts of time > and energy. Many are employed to work on OpenOffice, but many like me are > volunteers who have demanding day jobs. The key part of the Apache Way is > that leadership comes from DOING and COMMUNICATING. > > You are new here with lots of admirable energy and work! This is what > acquires merit in an Apache project! > > Since we ultimately can only control ourselves, do you have any > suggestions about how we can more actively encourage participation? > > Best Regards, > Dave > > On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:38 AM, jan iversen wrote: > > > Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and > > people who are just blowing hot air. > > > > To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum, > and > > have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is > > something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart > marketing, > > but by showing the developers, that we really care about their > > contributions. > > > > If I may say so, some developers might see "the apache way" as a > > limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms, > I > > think we really need to focus on "the community" instead of telling > people > > about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat > the > > big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in > > EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!! > > > > Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really > > really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets > > not forget why we are all here. > > > > Jan > > > > On 1 November 2012 17:20, RGB ES wrote: > > > >> 2012/11/1 Rob Weir > >> > >>> I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are > >>> being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to > >>> discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project. > >>> I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who > >>> submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging > >>> them from involvement in the project. > >>> > >>> This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth. > >>> > >>> I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and > >>> bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that > >>> sanctions such techniques. If you recall we had a similar wave of > >>> such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external > >>> parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and > >>> telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a > >>> different product instead. > >>> > >>> I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you > >>> to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other > >>> public website. "Daylight is the best antiseptic" as they say. I am > >>> not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public > >>> scrutiny loses its potency. But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads. > >>> > >> > >> There is and a
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
> - I would like to see more "marketing" for developers, instead of > businesses...I think we need to get back to roots where a > developers think > its fun, and pride to develop AOO. We could easily e.g. make > challenges > like "who can solve this problem". I think (or i hope) that both are not opposites. What I mean is, for example, the I professionally for many years, offering support for OpenOffice.org and thus also contribute to OOo to make known. I also have contributed for many years to OOo project volunteer, but not as a programmer, because I can not C++ or Java. (note: i can program, but in other languages, for example VB6, VB.Net, Visual Basic, Star Basic) "fun"? To me this is, for example, my work as a moderator in http://de.openoffice.info (note: my real name is "Jörg" but in the forum my nickname is "Stephan"). This is also voluntarily because the Forum is not commercially. Yes, to me it's fun to answer user questions, and because I'm still learning itself can. "pride"? I'm a little proud that http://de.openoffice.info is the largest german (respectively german speaking) Forum to Open Office (OpenOffice.org, StarOffice, Apache OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, ...), and I was able to contribute to. And I'm proud that in http://de.openoffice.info all free, or opensource, office-programs (or users) are welcome, because I do not like confrontation between different programs, users or communities. Greetings, Jörg
Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?
Hello, > The DocFou guys choose to split from the OO.o project. The > communities are > now separate. And users of LO are better served in LO forums, like AOO > users are better served on the AOO forums and lists, and not > the other way > around. > > I guess you´re not implying that we should start accepting > here questions > from Thinkfree Office, KDE Office, LO or any other office suite. I think there is a misunderstanding. I wanted to say is the only: before the creation of LibreOffice/TDF http://de.openoffice.info was a forum for OpenOffice.org and(!) StarOffice (and StarOffice 5.2) and(!) NeoOffice and(!) OxygenOffice and(!) go-oo because we saw no reason to split the forum into separate forums. After the founding of LibreOffice there were receivables the focus of the Forum, to LibreOffice relocate and we declined, because _there is no reason for such a special role of LibreOffice_ and as long as LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice are technically similar enough to questions in to answer a forum, we will do so. We are concerned about any content at http://de.openoffice.info office-software is derived from OpenOffice.org. When in doubt, apply the http://de.openoffice.info is independent. We do not let us be influenced by anyone in the past, and we will not do so in future. Not because of pressure or influence attempts, but also not because of (my) personal preference or sympathies. Independence is independence, and as moderator (and Admin) at http://de.openoffice.info i will preserve them. Greetings, Jörg
