Re: [Oorexx-devel] An example run (Re: One more trace entry for exiting a routine or method with a trace prefix of

[Chip Davis]

Have to admit, Rony's "out-arrows" do make a much more 
immediately-visible eyecatcher.  Would that be appropriate for 
"Signal" as well, since it (may) violate the routine nesting structure?


-Chip-

On 4/10/2024 7:40 AM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:


Here an example program that uses a routine and methods (and 
internal routines) for getting an impression on the trace output:


say "hi" o=.test~new say "o~hi :" o~hi say "o~ho :" o~ho say
"pp(abc):" pp(abc) ::routine pp res=br(arg(1)) return res br:
return "[" || arg(1) || "]" ::class test ::method hi return "hi"
::method ho res=mbr("ho") return res mbr: return pp(arg(1)) --
::options trace all ::options trace labels

Here the output of "::options trace labels" using "I> Method "HI" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
I> Method "HO" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 19 *-*   mbr:
>I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 10 *-*   br:
I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 10 *-*   br:
O>":

hi
>I> Method "HI" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
>O> Method "HI" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
o~hi   : hi
>I> Method "HO" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 19 *-*   mbr:
>I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 10 *-*   br:
>O> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
>O> Method "HO" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
o~ho   : [ho]
>I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 10 *-*   br:
>O> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
pp(abc): [ABC]

---

Here the output of "::options trace all" using "I> Method "HI" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 15 *-* return "hi"
I> Method "HO" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 17 *-* res=mbr("ho")
 19 *-*   mbr:
 20 *-*   return pp(arg(1))
>I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
  8 *-* res=br(arg(1))
 10 *-*   br:
 11 *-*   return "[" || arg(1) || "]"
  9 *-* return res
I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
  8 *-* res=br(arg(1))
 10 *-*   br:
 11 *-*   return "[" || arg(1) || "]"
  9 *-* return res
O>":

  1 *-* say "hi"
hi
  2 *-* o=.test~new
  3 *-* say "o~hi   :" o~hi
>I> Method "HI" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 15 *-* return "hi"
>O> Method "HI" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
o~hi   : hi
  4 *-* say "o~ho   :" o~ho
>I> Method "HO" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 17 *-* res=mbr("ho")
 19 *-*   mbr:
 20 *-*   return pp(arg(1))
>I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
  8 *-* res=br(arg(1))
 10 *-*   br:
 11 *-*   return "[" || arg(1) || "]"
  9 *-* return res
>O> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
 18 *-* return res
>O> Method "HO" with scope "TEST" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
o~ho   : [ho]
  5 *-* say "pp(abc):" pp(abc)
>I> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
  8 *-* res=br(arg(1))
 10 *-*   br:
 11 *-*   return "[" || arg(1) || "]"
  9 *-* return res
>O> Routine "PP" in package 
"G:\test\orx\trace\examples4docs\hmm\test_labels.rex".
pp(abc): [ABC]

---

Personally I would prefer "invocation (">I>" is internally dubbed entering invocation) and it 
would probably make it easier to locate the invocation pairs in 
simple runs.


So, if you compare the trace output what would you like better, what 
would you think is more intuitive and maybe easier to spot? After 
all this is Rexx and should it make as easy as possible on the 
programmers! :)


---rony





___
Oorexx-devel mailing list

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Working with TraceObjects, maybe adding OBJECT, removing OBJECTID, and adding STACKFRAME?

[Chip Davis]

Seems more Rexx-ish, unless its specification might conflict with a 
future usage of the term in that context.

-Chip-

On 4/2/2024 4:19 PM, Rony wrote:
Another question: offline I got the suggestion to change the NR 
entry in TraceObject to NUMBER. What do you think?



___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Musings with tracing multithreaded ooRexx programs, mt91.rex: on two Rexx interpreter instances (RII)

[Chip Davis]

As a life-long unabashed fan of Trace, I can see that anyone doing 
non-trivial multithreaded Rexx programming would need far more 
information than 'Trace I' can provide.  However, the sheer volume of 
information necessary seems to present no universally acceptable 
format to interactively deal with such complexity.


Could we not define Mike's "basic-multithreading" Trace format as an 
interactive trace option, and have another mechanism that writes 
Rony's "multithread-the-world" Trace information to another 
device/file for formatting as desired?


The latter would not be an "interactive" trace per se, but perhaps it 
would help to narrow the scope of the problem.  Not unlike sprinkling 
a couple of SNAP dumps in your Assembler, in order to determine the 
point at which you want to take an ABEND dump.


-Chip-
RIP: Les Kohler



___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] I think I've seen the future...

[Chip Davis]

I tripped-up myself one time too many because the numeral 1 looks so 
much like the letter l in so many fonts, that I self-imposed the use 
of the '=', '+', and '-' on all numeric parse positions, and taught 
that accordingly.


As for the "stem update & increment index in one statement" trick 
itself, I can't make any claim to origination, but I do remember 
getting very tired of enclosing two statements in a 'Do-End' block.  I 
am glad you found it useful too.


I would be astounded if there is anything I have ever written in Rexx 
that Mike didn't do first.


-Chip-

On 1/24/2023 1:01 PM, Michael Lueck wrote:

Greetings Walter,


WalterPachl wrote:

What is the '=' good for?



Emphasized position move back to the beginning? That was how Mike 
and Chip dreamed it up... so I captured it, and have used the 
pattern repeatedly.


I am thankful,






___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] I think I've seen the future...

[Chip Davis]

Thanks for the name-check, Michael, but I do not deserve the "Mr. 
Parse" moniker.  John Chapman did not invent the apple-seed, he merely 
travelled the country planting nurseries for others to tend.


-Chip-

On 1/23/2023 10:50 AM, Michael Lueck wrote:

Greetings ooRexx'ers,

CV Bruce wrote:
It kind of seems like the days when people checked the assembler 
created by the compiler to make sure the compiler was “doing it 
right”.


Those were the days.

Or former MS developer Dave Plumber writing Windows GUI code in 
Assembly here:


Hello, Assembly! Retrocoding the World's Smallest Windows App in x86 
ASM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0zxIfJJLAY

Also this was an impressive video

Comparing C to machine language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOyaJXpAYZQ

I do not suspect any AI tool will "think" of the wizardry of MFC and 
Mr. Parse (aka Chip) at RexxLA  Symposiums back in the early 2000's


#!/usr/local/bin/rexx
trace a

delimtag    = '  '
instr   = '    This is a   line break! Another 
line    break also! '

linebreak   = X2C('0A')

.output~LineOut(instr)
/* Strip instr to set initial value of AP we will be processing */
AP = instr~strip()
.output~LineOut(AP)
OUTline = ''
/* Optimizing thanks to MFC & MrParse */
do forever
  parse var AP BP (delimtag) AP
  /* Strip the Left side of the value in AP */
  AP = AP~strip('L')
  /* Check to see if we are at the end of the line */
  if AP = '' then leave
  /* Basically this is a final else, attach it to the output */
  OUTline = OUTline || BP || linebreak
  .output~LineOut(OUTline)
end /* do forever */

OUTline = OUTline || BP

.output~LineOut(OUTline)

exit 0

I have used that format of parse line many times since then and 
always I leave behind:

/* Optimizing thanks to MFC & MrParse */
in the code just before the parse call.

I am thankful,





___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Question ad copyright string

[Chip Davis]

While I agree with Jon about readability, I scanned the web for "how 
to format a copyright notice" and found not a single example that used 
a comma (or any break besides a space) between the date and the 
copyright holder.


-Chip-

On 12/22/2022 11:59 AM, Sahananda Sahananda wrote:

It reads better WITH the comma imho, but then, who reads it?

Jon

On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 at 16:53, Rony G. Flatscher 
mailto:rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at>> wrote:


While creating a little script that does bulk updates to the
copyright statements in all files I noticed that there are two
styles in use, one with a comma immediately following the year
portion, one without that comma, e.g.:

ooconsole/en-US/ooconsole.xml:10:# Copyright (c) 2014-2014 Rexx 
Language Association. All rights reserved.
   ootest/en-US/testoorexx.xml:10:# Copyright (c) 2005-2014*,*  
Rexx Language Association. All rights reserved.

Which form should the updated copyright string take, with the
comma or without the comma after the year portion?

---rony

___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Ad current samples\ole\apps

[Chip Davis]

Then may I suggest that you do as you would with your spouse, and say 
"I heard you, and I don't have an answer right now, but I will get 
back to you within X ."


There are few things I loathe more, than when I ask something and get 
silence in response.  That is a classic passive-aggressive ploy and is 
corrosive to any productive collaboration.  At least let me know that 
my question was received, and that some sort of thoughtful response 
will be forthcoming.


-Chip-

On 6/6/2022 10:36 AM, Erich Steinböck wrote:

| silence is taken as approval
Rony, I've already said multiple times and in no unclear words that 
my silence just means I haven't written an answer and in no way is 
an approval.

I'm really getting tired of this.




___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Question ad Apple versions

[Chip Davis]

Let's hope that's a false equivalence, P.O.  Godot never showed up, 
and those waiting for him eventually decide to move on, but remain 
stuck where they were.


-Chip-

On 10/28/2021 11:16 AM, P. O. Jonsson wrote:

I see no reason to wait with a release. We have been waiting for Godot long 
enough :-(




___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Suggested samples\ole\apps\samp09.rex (Re: Two questions ad samples\ole\apps

[Chip Davis]

Warnock's Dilemma notwithstanding, I'd say /"Qui tacet consentit"/ 
applies here Rony.


-Chip-

On 3/29/2021 12:26 PM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:


Still, I would like to change the Excel sample09.rex, if no one 
objects!




___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Quirk of the Day

[Chip Davis]

Hear, hear!

On 11/10/2020 8:56 AM, Mike Cowlishaw wrote:

So it would seem that that CRX is the most correct .. even the error message
uses the current NUMERIC DIGITS.  Arguable (although I don't think ANSI
defined how error messages are constructed -- but maybe it did?).
  
Anyway, hats off to the late Brian Marks!




___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Quirk of the Day

[Chip Davis]

We must be careful we don't cut ourselves on such a sharp edge-case.  
The salient arguments boil down to:
 - The Principle of Least Astonishment argues for modifying ooRexx to 
match the behavior of other Rexx'es.

 - The Policy of Least Exceptions argues that ooRexx has the right rule.

The purist in me contends that the ooRexx behavior is the correct one, 
and we should simply update the errortext: "DIGITS value must be a 
positive whole number expressible under the current setting of 
"NUMERIC DIGITS nn"; found "dd".  We could do that for ooRexx and 
NetRexx, but the likelihood of any IBM Rexx processor following suit, 
is nil.


There is a valid argument for making ooRexx consistent with all the 
other Rexx'es out there, especially the huge installed base of IBM 
Rexx code.  One might hope that the number of ooRexx programs affected 
by this change could be expressed in Numeric Digits 2, but who knows 
where (or how critical) that code may be.  This will also require 
documenting (and test-casing) this exception to the current behavior.  
But it won't be the only place that the design of Rexx has bent an 
ideal consistency to the reality of dealing with humans.


As big a fan of consistency as I am, I'm afraid I come down on the 
more pragmatic PLA side of this issue, especially given the expected 
amount of code affected.


-Chip-



___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Short cutting logical operators

[Chip Davis]

+1e1000

On 9/5/2020 3:48 PM, Mike Cowlishaw wrote:
Rony, this was added to NetRexx back in the 1990s.   ooRexx does it 
differently, for whatever reason.   Whatever the case, it is always 
better to 'spell out' the short-circuits in the code rather than 
rely on weird notations, surely?   That way, people who read the 
code later can see exactly what the programmer intended, rather than 
having to infer it from some piece of code and notation that quite 
possibly was wrongly coded in the first place.  Very few C coders 
understand the difference between '&' and '&&', for example. They 
randomly use both until the compiler complains.
In short: if the programmer wanted to 'save time' with a 
short-circuit then it would be better if they learned to make their 
code simpler and more readable.  If they wanted to do a second test 
only if the first succeeded, they can always write that explicitly.  
And anyone who later reads that code will thank them for it.
That's why Rexx was designed to be (and hopefully still is): a 
language that is understandable -- and, more importunately, usable 
-- to most people.

Mike

--
*From:* Rony G. Flatscher [mailto:rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at]
*Sent:* 05 September 2020 19:30
*To:* oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
*Subject:* Re: [Oorexx-devel] Short cutting logical operators

On 04.09.2020 15:51, Mike Cowlishaw wrote:

I think you all know my opinion on weird notations in languages
that are only known and used by a few 'elite' programmers --
yet are all-too-easily misunderstood by less-practiced (or
simply less-able or infrequent) programmers...


Yes, I think everyone concurs.

However, the question still remains, if one wishes to add the
ability to short-circuit to Rexx (like programmers coming from
C/++/#, Java etc are accustomed to and surprised that this
concept is not available in Rexx), how to do it.

Currently Rick added the comma as a delimiter indicating a
short-circuit using and concatenations. Then, if
short-circuiting or concatenations should be supported, how to
allow them to be expressed in a "Rexxish" manner that is not
only known to a few 'elite' programmers, but anyone who comes
from C/++/# or Java?

---rony




--
*From:* Erich Steinböck [mailto:erich.steinbo...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* 04 September 2020 14:22
*To:* Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
*Subject:* Re: [Oorexx-devel] Short cutting logical operators

You're right.
I've often wondered whether a method call really *must*
evaluate all its arguments upfront.
What about lazy evaluation? Only evaluate an argument when
it is actually required, i. e. accessed for the first time?

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 3:17 PM Rick McGuire
mailto:object.r...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hmmm, I found an awkward bit with this proposal. For
the operators, these are all transformed into method
calls under the cover, so "a | b" gets executed as
"a~'|'(b)", where the object on the left hand side does
the evaluation of the condition. This allows any class
to override the '|' and '&'. With the overrides, the
evaluation needs to be handled directly by the operator
code because there's no way to delay evaluation of a
method argument, and it would be very difficult to
allow something like that to exist. I'm not sure I'm
comfortable with '*|' and '*&' be special cases as
operators.

Rick

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:03 AM Rick McGuire
mailto:object.r...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

There's been a bit of a discussion about the
short-cutting conditional lists implemented by IF,
WHEN, et al. I find that construct very useful, but
as the discussion on the list has revealed, it has
its limitations.

It would actually be fairly trivial to implement
AND and OR operators that can do short-cut
evaluation. Of course, this is not possible for
XOR, which always requires both values. The real
questions are 1) should it be done and 2) what
should the operator be. I've been tentatively using
*& and *| in my thinking about this, but there are
certainly other possibilities.

Rick





___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


___
Oorexx-devel mailing list

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Documentation: using less bold font for some elements ?

[Chip Davis]

Gosh, Gil.  Don't say _that_.  These days you're better off saying, 
"My hemorrhoids are flaring up and I can't sit at the computer" than 
let people speculate that you've come down with SARS-CoV2 ... :-X


On 3/24/2020 10:57 AM, Gil Barmwater wrote:


FYI - my "silence" on this thread is not due to lack of interest or 
having no comment but rather to being a bit "under the weather" at 
the moment. As soon as I am able, I will offer my thoughts.




___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Another successful run on creating the rxmath.html documentation!

[Chip Davis]

I will channel our dearly departed Les Koehler and suggest that, given 
the average age of the Rexx-programming cohort, a larger font may be 
better.  :-)


-Chip-

On 3/9/2020 4:56 PM, Gil Barmwater wrote:


It has been suggested that the font-size used for the body of the 
HTML files is a bit too small. I have created a version of the 
rxmath book with a slightly larger font-size and I would like some 
feedback on your preference - the original, smaller 
 version 
versus the newer, larger 
 
version. You need to download them both, unzip them to separate 
folders and open the index.html file of each folder in your browser 
window. You can then navigate through the book(s) and see which 
version you prefer. TIA,


Gil

On 3/8/2020 4:51 PM, Gil Barmwater wrote:


Newest version of rxmath HTML files/folders is here 
. I 
believe I've gotten the majority of the issues handled so please 
have another look.


Thanks, Gil

On 3/8/2020 11:52 AM, Gil Barmwater wrote:


Hi P.O.,

Thanks for doing the detailed comparison and confirming that the 
differences were ones of which I was aware.


I have experimented with deleting the width=297 from BOTH the div 
tags and the span tags and the results look great! Now to find how 
that attribute is getting generated!


Gil

On 3/8/2020 10:19 AM, P.O. Jonsson wrote:

Dear Gil,

Rony have given most of the information already but I have listed 
some differences as seen in the output, please have a look in the 
attached pdf


For what is is worth: most differences I can see are to your 
advantage! I think this is coming a long way already.





H�lsningar/Regards/Gr�sse,
P.O. Jonsson
oor...@jonases.se 



Am 08.03.2020 um 15:11 schrieb Gil Barmwater 
mailto:gbarmwa...@alum.rpi.edu>>:


Thanks a lot Rony for that research! I had noticed that the HTML 
produced by Publican used object tags while the newer Docbook 
stylesheets produced img tags but that is as far as I had 
gotten. Now to see where the width=297 comes from and what 
happens when it is removed. Thanks again! GB


On 3/8/2020 9:47 AM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 07.03.2020 20:52, Gil Barmwater wrote:


I've made more progress here and now have a set of HTML files, 
etc. for the rxmath book. In spite of the fact that the source 
is essentially the same and the stylesheets are as well, the 
output appears different in a number of ways. I can only 
attribute this to the different versions of the DocBook 
stylesheets being used by the two processes or possibly the 
different way the two handle xinclude. I have put the zipped 
folder in my Dropbox here 
 
and would appreciate feedback on what to tackle in order to 
make them look better.


Your HTML renderings look great, even better than P.O. Publican 
renderings, congratulations !!


The area that needs attention is how the size for the graphics 
gets defined, it is also where your renderings look better than 
Publican's, where clipping occurs. Example:


  * 2.3 RxCalcSqrt()

  o Gil's HTML text for the syntax diagram:

  o Publican's HTML text for the syntax diagram:
 

The general problem with the definition of the size of the 
syntax diagrams lies in setting the width to the absolute value 
"297" pixels!


The original docbook text for this is:



The svg has a bounding box of 472x68:

http://www.w3.org/2000/svg;  width="472" height="68">

So it seems that "297" is probably hardcoded in the xsl.

This has in principal the downside that all images, 
irrespectible how wide they are in reality, get 
reduced/enlarged to fit the 297px width. This makes the syntax 
diagrams look irregularily sized and ugly. (In the Publican 
case it is even worse as there the object-element is used which 
will clip the image.)


Consulting [1] one can see that 297px width corresponds to 
159.28 mm = 15.93 cm = 6.22 in.


Looking at all the svg bounding boxes in the rxmath book, the 
widest one is "funcs_rxcalcpower.svg" with a width of 634 px = 
167.75 mm = 16.78 cm = 6.55 in. If rendering for paper the 
printable width (A4) is wide enough to host the syntax diagram 
without any distortion or clipping.


Therefore I would suggest to remove the width attribute from 
the img element (and use the img element [2] over the object 
element [3]).


Finally, both, the Publican and Gil's HTML renderings show that 
the svg images display and scale in the highest resolution.
@P.O.: there would be� no need anymore to recreate the HTML 
renderings for the rexxpg book.


So, Gil, thumbs up!� +1

Great job!

---rony

[1] "Convert Pixel (X) to Millimeter": 

[2] HTML "img" element: 

Re: [Oorexx-devel] RFB: rexxpg book: changed rexxc documentation

[Chip Davis]

OK, I understand that the limiting factor is the language 
_feature__level_ employed by the program, not the _language level_ of 
the interpreter.  Unfortunately, many (most?) programmers are probably 
not going to be aware of that level of granularity.  That leaves us 
with the more accurate but somewhat unhelpful ...


"Binary programs produced by 'rexxc' can be run only on a Rexx 
interpreter of the same architecture (32/64-bit) that supports the 
highest feature level used in the program."


... because most of us won't have any idea what that "highest feature 
level" is.  Are feature levels documented in the Reference? Is there a 
flag to tell the interpreter to display the highest feature level 
being employed in the program?


-Chip-

On 3/8/2020 3:44 PM, Rick McGuire wrote:
Except for the fact it is not at all correct. The ability for a 
program to run does not depend at all on the interpreter it is 
compiled with, but just by the language features used by the 
program. For example, assuming there is a new 5.1 release available, 
a program that will run on 5.0 recompiled with the 5.1 interpreter 
will run just fine on either 5.0 or 5.1. However, if it is updated 
to take advantage of a new language feature that has been introduced 
by version 5.1, then the compiled image will be marked as requiring 
a 5.1 level of the interpreter.


Rick

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 3:31 PM Rony G. Flatscher 
mailto:rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at>> wrote:


    On 08.03.2020 19:55, Chip Davis wrote:

Well, as a grammar-nerd I must point out the misplaced "only"
and to being confused by the last clause.

My re-cast would be:

"Binary files produced by rexxc can be run only on an
interpreter of the same bitness and the same (or higher)
language level as that of the rexxc that created them."

Grammatically it is cleaner; I'm just not sure why the phrase
"the interpreter that compiling copy of rexxc was supplied
with" is necessary.


Your version simplifies it even more and thereby making it
clearer it seems! Not being a native English speaker I leave it
for others to judge whether the phrase "the interpreter ..."
should remain or not. The rexxpg book now reflects Chip's
suggestion without the phrase.

---rony




On 3/8/2020 1:13 PM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:


How about formulating Jon's suggestion then as follows:

Binary files produced by a version of rexxc can only be
run on an interpreter of the same or higher language level
and the same bitness as the interpreter that compiling
copy of rexxc was supplied with.

Would that be understandable and correct?

---rony


On 08.03.2020 17:58, Rick McGuire wrote:



On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 12:50 PM Jon Wolfers
mailto:sahana...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Rony,

The created binary file is dependent on the Rexx
language level and the bitness (32 or 64 bit) of the
Rexx interpreter used for creating the binary file.
Each time the Rexx language level gets increased by a
new release of Rexx or each time you switch the
bitness of the Rexx interpreter you need to run rexxc
again. 



I think the English in this sentence is great, but I
think it approaches the situation serially.  Ie through
time you have one language level & bitness interpreter
and then you move to another. Having used ooRexx in a
production environment this is not always what is going
on.  For much of the time, I had my test machine on a
newer release than my clients as I was testing and making
changes to support the upgrade as well as stepwise
improvements to the program suite and coping with changes
in the business.  Most of my suite was deployed
uncompiled, but for security & license reasons there were
some modules that needed to be compiled. When I upgraded
my programs and the language levels I had to be mindful
to replace not only the modules where the source had
changed, but also all the compiled ones where there was a
change of interpreter.

I think your sentence is good enough, but wonder if it
would be better to say something like

Binary files produced by a version of rexxc can only be
run on (?with?by?) an interpreter of the same language
level and bitness as the interpreter that compiling copy
of rexxc was supplied with.  The language level changes
with each release of ooRexx.

This is not strictly true. One of the goals with the rewrites
I did with this release was to try to maintain
release-to-release compatibility wherever possible. The
translator keeps track of the minimum level needed to execute
the image. New featu

Re: [Oorexx-devel] RFB: rexxpg book: changed rexxc documentation

[Chip Davis]

Well, as a grammar-nerd I must point out the misplaced "only" and to 
being confused by the last clause.


My re-cast would be:

"Binary files produced by rexxc can be run only on an interpreter of 
the same bitness and the same (or higher) language level as that of 
the rexxc that created them."


Grammatically it is cleaner; I'm just not sure why the phrase "the 
interpreter that compiling copy of rexxc was supplied with" is necessary.


On 3/8/2020 1:13 PM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:


How about formulating Jon's suggestion then as follows:

Binary files produced by a version of rexxc can only be run on
an interpreter of the same or higher language level and the same
bitness as the interpreter that compiling copy of rexxc was
supplied with.

Would that be understandable and correct?

---rony


On 08.03.2020 17:58, Rick McGuire wrote:



On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 12:50 PM Jon Wolfers > wrote:


Hi Rony,

The created binary file is dependent on the Rexx language
level and the bitness (32 or 64 bit) of the Rexx
interpreter used for creating the binary file. Each time
the Rexx language level gets increased by a new release of
Rexx or each time you switch the bitness of the Rexx
interpreter you need to run rexxc again. 



I think the English in this sentence is great, but I think it
approaches the situation serially.  Ie through time you have
one language level & bitness interpreter and then you move to
another.  Having used ooRexx in a production environment this
is not always what is going on.  For much of the time, I had my
test machine on a newer release than my clients as I was
testing and making changes to support the upgrade as well as
stepwise improvements to the program suite and coping with
changes in the business.  Most of my suite was deployed
uncompiled, but for security & license reasons there were some
modules that needed to be compiled.  When I upgraded my
programs and the language levels I had to be mindful to replace
not only the modules where the source had changed, but also all
the compiled ones where there was a change of interpreter.

I think your sentence is good enough, but wonder if it would be
better to say something like

Binary files produced by a version of rexxc can only be run on
(?with?by?) an interpreter of the same language level and
bitness as the interpreter that compiling copy of rexxc was
supplied with.  The language level changes with each release of
ooRexx.

This is not strictly true. One of the goals with the rewrites I did 
with this release was to try to maintain release-to-release 
compatibility wherever possible. The translator keeps track of the 
minimum level needed to execute the image. New features added in 
releases after 5.0 will flag that they need a newer release, so the 
language level in the compiled image is tied to the features being 
used, not to the level of interpreter used to compile it. Of course 
currently, the only language level is that used by 5.0, but the 
mechanism is in place to maintain that compatibility.


Rick


what do you think?

Jon

On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 16:13, Rony G. Flatscher
mailto:rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at>> wrote:

Hi Jon,

thank you very much for your fast feedback!

On 08.03.2020 17:04, Jon Wolfers wrote:

I think it reads well, but the last paragraph on the page
about rxmigrate needs to be replaced imho.

My understanding is that a new version of rexxc is
provided with each release and programs compiled with
rexxc will only run on the release of the interpreter that
they were compiled for.  That is my experience - is it
correct?  If so then I think it would be good to say so.


Hmm, excellent point! Also, one should mention that there
is a difference between 32- and 64-bit images.

How about some text like:

The created binary file is dependent on the Rexx
language level and the bitness (32 or 64 bit) of the
Rexx interpreter used for creating the binary file.
Each time the Rexx language level gets increased by a
new release of Rexx or each time you switch the bitness
of the Rexx interpreter you need to run rexxc again.

How does that sound?

---rony



On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:53, Rony G. Flatscher
mailto:rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at>>
wrote:

"RFB" is meant to mean "request for feedback"!

Changed the rexxpg book in the section "Appendix A.
Distributing Programs without Source" (i.e. "rexxc")
to reflect changes that have occurred:

  * It would be great to get brief feedback whether
this is understandable the way it is now.

  * Also, please 

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Testsuite

[Chip Davis]

Agreed.

But could you please write the updated code to still allow for an 
"OS/2" possibility, if only for historical (and sentimental) reasons?


-Chip-

On 2/25/2019 6:24 AM, Enrico Sorichetti via Oorexx-devel wrote:


The  code to detect the system is pretty outdated



    -- test for default command processor
    parse source os .                  -- get name of operating system
    os1=os~left(1)~translate           -- get first character in uppercase
    if pos(os1, "O W") > 0 then do     -- OS2, Windows ?
       self~assertSame("CMD", addr, "default address environment for" 
pp(os)"="pp(addr) "not" pp("CMD"))

       end
    else do                            -- all Unix platforms should 
default to "sh"
       self~assertSame("sh", addr, "default address environment for" 
pp(os)"="pp(addr) "not" pp("sh"))

       end




It does not detect OPenBSD

E




___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Unix and rename

[Chip Davis]

This has always been a philosophical minefield.  Unless you want to 
convene a huge (and mortally contentious) Standards Committee to 
resolve exactly what it means to "move" a file in all possible 
filesystems, the only defensible solution is to make the function a 
wrapper that simply punts the issue down to the underlying OS.


This was one of the major issues I had to deal with when writing the 
CP/CMS-to-AIX Rexx program abstraction layer.  None of the filesystem 
operations worked exactly the same, or returned the same set of 
errors.  I remember COPYFILE being especially difficult to implement 
in AIX.


IMHO, shell commands should be issued only as ADDRESSed commands.  To 
establish Rexx surrogates for them is just asking for trouble.  I'd 
deprecate whatever legacy behavior the functions have now and leave it 
to the programmer to decide if, e.g., '-noclobber' is an option or the 
default.


-Chip-

On 2/12/2019 7:47 AM, Rick McGuire wrote:
Starting to run my new unit tests on Linux and I've hit an interesting 
difference between Windows and Linux. On Windows, the SysFileMove() 
function fails if the target file exists, but on Linux, the rename() 
function appears to work on the rename, which was unexpected. The docs 
for the rename() function aren't really clear about that situation. Is 
that expected?


Interestingly, the old rexxutil code had a test for the new and the 
old files resolving to the same target, which the rename() docs 
explicitly allow. So we have one situation where an error is expected 
and another where an error is returned that would be allowed by the 
system. Does anybody have thoughts on how this should work?



___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Two new RFEs ...

[Chip Davis]

Rony,

I would like to think that
  ADDRESS [ env | SYSTEM | ENVIRONMENT ] ... cmd
would be a trivial and non-controversial enhancement to aid 
cross-platform Rexx code.  I've never been wild about the null string 
being a default for anything.  (I have a faint memory that once two 
Address'ed environments were set up, one could toggle from one to the 
other with simply 'Address'.  I find that reprehensible coding and 
would never have used it, so perhaps that is a false memory in the 
first place.)


I vaguely remember seeing the 'PARSE ARRAY ...' suggestion come up but 
don't recall the discussion or any consensus/objections.  Could you 
provide a brief review?


-Chip-

On 9/4/2018 11:47 AM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
While discussing on this list in the past there were two ideas that 
came up and which I just documented in the request-for-enhancement 
(RFE) tracker of ooRexx, such that they do not get forgotten:


  * *PARSE ARRAY arr template*

  * *ADDRESS: Add the Synonyms SYSTEM and ENVIRONMENT for ""
*

Any feedback, discussion appreciated!

---rony


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Discussion: Adding variable references to ooRexx.

[Chip Davis]

Not wild about any of the suggestions so far.  The @ implies that what follows 
is the location of something, not the thing itself.  Do we really need to be 
concerned about variables in Classic Rexx on platforms that don't run ooRexx in 
the first place?
-Chip-
 Original message From: Mike Cowlishaw  
Date: 4/12/18  21:58  (GMT-05:00) To: 'Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List' 
 Subject: Re: [Oorexx-devel] Discussion: 
Adding variable references to ooRexx. 

Yes, I wasn't keen on arrows or '^' either 
:-).

  
  

 
But I'm even more un-keen on 
'&'.  <>
 
How about '*', then, as being still 
being one of the two ends of the C 
  notation? 
  

  I’m even less keen on using *. Now that C++ allows you to declare 
  arguments as being references rather than pointers, I've been moving away 
from 
  using pointers as arguments.  
   
   A resemblance to exec2 is not 
  that strong of an argument when you consider a large portion of the ooRexx 
  users have never even heard of the language.   
   
That really isn't true .. almost all ooRexx users are Rexx users, 
mostly ex- (or current) mainframers.

   
   
   And 
  it's not like every variable is going to suddenly acquiring a leading '&'. 
  This will generally be used in a few selective place, such as situations 
where 
  you wish to return multiple values back from a call or method.  
   
However or wherever it is used it would 
be inexplicable, and if it is used only rarely then it would be even more 
baffling when it appears.  What does the 'and' operator have to do with 
references?  
 
This would be a classic example of 
a bewildering notation that makes a language inscrutable.  When seen, 
users would be forced to open the manual to figure out what it 
does.   In short: maybe a nice addition to Perl, but it has no 
place in a Rexx language.
 
Mike
 --
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] portable (usb) ooRexx 5.00

[Chip Davis]

I'm inclined to err on the side of caution, myself.  After all, this 
is introducing a new keyword for the ADDRESS statement with a 
potential for breakage; e.g.


  with = 'C:\Chip\bin\'
  Address COMMAND 'DIR' with

At the very least, that will generate an astonishing error message 
("Error 25: Invalid sub-keyword found" on Regina) in previously 
working code.  I don't think we should spring that on the community 
without a fair amount of warning.


We'll need  to update the existing test units for 'Address' and the docs.

Rick may have something ready in a week but I'm inclined to treat it 
as a prototype until we have all our other ducks in a row.  We have 
experience with, and thus a fairly high level of confidence in the 
current 5.0.0 release candidate.  Let's get it out unchanged and use 
it's announcement to draw attention to the long-awaited 'Address-With' 
feature, "coming soon".


ooRexx 4.2.0 has been out for four (!) years.  Let us not delay 5.0.0 
any longer.


-Chip-

On 3/30/2018 12:42 PM, Rick McGuire wrote:
Hmmm, I'm very much of the opposite opinion. I could have something 
working in a week or two. I've got a fair amount of the code written 
already, although I'm now at the tedious part of doing the command 
parsing and getting all of the error messages defined. The only part 
I'm really missing is the handling of the redirection of the actual 
command.


I do want to note that currently, I am only implementing the version 
of this that uses full command invocation, i.e.,


ADDRESS env command WITH INPUT STEM a.

But not the version where you set a persistent invocation state for an 
environment


ADDRESS env WITH INPUT STEM a.

There are some aspects of that I don't like, so I'm going to have to 
think that one over a bit. It might still be doable, but I'm not 
committing to it. The full command version is the part everybody 
wants, so we can always roll out the fuller support later if there is 
demand.


Rick

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 11:51 AM, Gil Barmwater 
> wrote:


While I, too, am excited about ADDRESS WITH and am sure we will
move much more quickly with Rick's involvement than if I were
tackling it alone, I cannot estimate how long this will take to
complete.  So, my recommendation is to NOT hold the release of
5.0.0 for any longer than necessary to resolve the other issues
that have already been identified.  We can do a 5.1.0 when ADDRESS
WITH is ready and/or the RXAPI issues are resolved.  FWIW.

Gil

On 3/30/2018 11:02 AM, René Jansen wrote:

Moritz,

After Gil’s talk I am also excited about ADDRESS WITH (and the
fact that it has been taken up by Rick) so we might hold off
the freeze for some time until we have all infrastructure and
installers ready (and maybe have ADDRESS WITH). Maybe this
gives us also time to look into the portable version again. I
personally think this would be a great boost for takeup.

I remember you had a set of patches to turn the sockets of
rxapi into pipes. I do not remember if this was windows-only
or also included linux/macos.

The issues with rxapi:

- you must be authorized to run it on its port
- the firewall must allow access (cost me great headaches on
Z, where the standard image for a Linux VM was very
restrictive, and you got a timeout and no message)
- you must be authorized to start it, so that means a service
on windows or some systemd / startup item
- it writes a PID file so whoever starts it, must be
authorized to write there

Thing is, solutions must work for the three main platforms,
that is the reason of my question.

best regards,


René




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



-- 
Gil Barmwater





--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Multiple Rexx interpreter instances and .local, a problem

[Chip Davis]

If I don't understand this issue, it won't be the first time. Just 
ignore me.  ;-|


It sounds as if Rony is talking about a Rexx program that, through no 
fault of its own, is dispatched on a different Rexx execution instance 
from the one on which it initialized its variables.  (Possibly as a 
result of running in one of those densely woven interface packages 
he's fond of creating. :-)


In essence, there's now a need for a new .LOCAL, residing in the 
execution space somewhere between the classic .LOCAL and .GLOBAL.


If that is not correct, I'm sure no one will be surprised. 
Regardless, I'll have to leave the solution as "an exercise for the 
student".  ;-)


-Chip-

On 9/21/2017 8:44 AM, René Jansen wrote:
This sounds like a needed documentation change - the programmer needs 
to know that .local is indeed not global.


Best regards,

René.

On 21 Sep 2017, at 06:38, Rony G. Flatscher > wrote:



On 20.09.2017 17:13, Erich Steinböck wrote:

Not sure if I correctly understand, but:
if you're not happy about .LOCAL being local, then put your stuff 
into .ENVIRONMENT.
This is not about happiness, it is about being sure that the 
contract between a Rexx coder and the ooRexx runtime holds.


.local is documented to be usable for the Rexx programmer to store 
and fetch values. When a Rexx object's code gets executed on a 
different Rexx interpreter instance, .local all of a sudden (and 
"silently") is changed and does not have the content, the Rexx 
programmer relies to be there (as that program placed values 
beforehand).


As a result such Rexx code may break unexpectedly.

Or with other words: a Rexx object is dependent on the .local object 
it used to store values. Changing that .local object without notice 
breaks the runtime environment integrity for such an object.


---rony



On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Rony G. Flatscher 
> wrote:


A Rexx interpreter instance will create a .local environment (a
directory) that is local to the Rexx interpreter instance, ie.
all programs being executed in it. (The .environment
environment - a directory - will be available to all Rexx
interpreter instances.)

The .local directory contains entries for (in alphabetical order):

DEBUGINPUT
ERROR
INPUT
OUTPUT
STDERR
STDIN
STDOUT
STDQUE
SYSCARGS
TRACEOUTPUT

Rexx programs may use .local to store all sort of data they
might need while executing or coupling different Rexx programs
with each other. Such Rexx programs are *dependent* on .local
having all entries available to them, that they - or
cooperating Rexx programs - place/store in .local.

The problem: currently, when running code from Rexx
packages/programs on different Rexx interpreter instances, do
*not* have entries available in .local to them, if they run on
a different Rexx interpreter instance!

Please note: when formulating "running code from a Rexx
program" any Rexx code that executes is meant, e.g. the method
Rexx code of Rexx objects which happen to run on a different
Rexx interpreter instances (maybe including UNINIT code). Or
globally shared public routines that use .local for their
purposes, and get executed in different Rexx interpreter
instances, and the like.

As a result, such Rexx code might behave in an undetermined
manner or even break when run in a different Rexx interpreter
instance, if they cannot access the .local environment they
placed/stored their objects in.

---rony



--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org ! 
http://sdm.link/slashdot

___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 


https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot



___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] High memory usage in ooRexx

[Chip Davis]

Not in any way to assert that ooRexx does not have scaling issues, 
when I hear hoof-beats I think "horses" not "reindeer". ;-)  I would 
want to be very sure that the long execution times and random 
anomalies were not caused by my code before asking volunteers to debug it.


-Chip-

On 6/29/2017 11:11 AM, Erich Steinböck wrote:

Hi P.O.,

executing other peoples code .. please give it a try

I can run code if you provide it as a platform-independent test case.  
I have no Mac, and the Mac binaries you provide won't run on Ubuntu or 
Windows, the platforms I can test on.


tr.rex gets stuck in the routine split_data

The code in tr.rex is inefficient when applied to a large data set.  
It seems to be likely that this leads to the very long run-time and 
high memory consumption you experience. Let me give you an example of 
the gains that may be achieved by coding things differently: using 
string append and wordPos(), this code will take a minute to execute 
for n = 10


call random , , 42
rs = ""
do n
   r = random(1, n % 2)
   if rs~wordPos(r) = 0 then do
 rs = rs r
 stem.r = r
   end
   else
 stem.r = stem.r r
end
say time("e")~format(, 2) "sec"

Achieving something very similar using StringTable and Array, will run 
in a tenth of a second for the same n


call time "r"
call random , , 42
table = .StringTable~new(n)
do n
   r = random(1, n % 2)
   if \table~hasIndex(r) then
 table[r] = .Array~of(r)
   else
 table[r]~append(r)
end
say time("e")~format(, 2) "sec"

A change like this gives a 600-fold improvement, and the numbers you 
are working with are much larger than 10.



I also noted, that the DE-EN-Cleaned.txt you provide, contains more 
than 56% duplicate lines - cleaning this might also bring some 
improvement.

The gains are getting




On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:46 PM, P.O. Jonsson > wrote:



Hälsningar/Regards/Grüsse,
P.O. Jonsson
oor...@jonases.se 

Hello again Erich,

I know executing other peoples code can be a p.i.t.a. but please
give it a try. Se it as a golden opportunity to stress test ooRexx :-)


Am 28.06.2017 um 21:21 schrieb Erich Steinböck
>:

Please download the complete test set and let it run and

I neither have a Mac nor do I have 50 GB of memory


I can share my machine over remote logon if that would help or we
can try to look at it using a shared screen. You do not need much
memory to run the program, 5 GB is more than sufficient for ONE
instance of the program, and that is enough to simulate the problem.



I had a REPRODUCIBLE scenario where this problem occurs
Out of 1200 or so runs it was only this single run that
produced memory bloating

see if you can reproduce the memory problem

Can you explain the problem in more detail? What exactly happens
when you run which command with what arguments? What are you
expecting to happen instead and why?


The problem is that the program tr.rex gets stuck in the routine
split_data (in the main loop when I break it)) or in sort_data (on
the ~Stablesort, presumably) for 1000 times longer for certain
intermediate data (read below) than for other. It is not so much
more data compared to other runs that I would expect this memory
load. While being in one of these routines the memory allocation
for the rexx process goes up and up and up until you have no more
memory (and start to swap). At the beginning the memory allocated
to the rexx process is negligible so you can try it with any
memory that runs.


it finished in 7 hours 1200 individual ooRexx processes

What does "1200 individual ooRexx processes" mean? Are you
starting you program with 1200 different sets of arguments?
Sequentially or in parallel? Which one of the programs shows the
issue? Is it always the same one?


In order to use all cores/threads on my machine I use a bash shell
script to launch/spawn up to at most 24 instances of the same
program in parallel, running on the *same* data but with different
parameters, producing *different* intermediate data files (_RAW
files) that are read and processed in Split_data and handed over
to Sort_data. When one chunk of data is processed that process
finishes (tr.rex exits) and another one is started to do the same
over and over again up to around 1200 individual runs for one
batch. There is only one rexx program and the problem only arises
for specific parameters in combination with specific input data. I
have provided you two examples, one that runs like a charm and
another one that never finishes.


why is the interpreter not warning me when I overwrite an
object with a string?

You're not overwriting an object with a string, 

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Question: an already required package will not get created from scratch, if in a different interpreter instance

[Chip Davis]

Thank you Rony, for your elaboration of this issue, and you 
willingness to allow others to fine-tune your prose.  Allow me to don 
my grammar-pedant garb.


I would suggest a few edits to your suggested documentation updates, 
the first of which addresses an error that has been there for a long time:


"The initialization code for the ::REQUIRES file will only be executed 
on the first reference."


This is a perfect, and all too common, example of the "misplaced 
modifier".  The word "only" (being nestled snugly within the 
verb-phrase "will be executed") refers to the action ("executed"), not 
that which is being executed ("first reference").  "He only shot the 
last black rhino" vs. "He shot only the last black rhino" or "He shot 
the last black rhino only", for comparison.


A more accurate construction would be:

"The initialization code for the ::REQUIRES file will be executed on 
the first reference only."


However, with Rony's elaboration, the best placement for "only" would be:

"The initialization code ("prolog") for the ::REQUIRES file will be 
executed on only the first reference in each interpreter instance."


As for Rony's additions, the verb "get" implies an action of receiving 
which, while common in the vernacular, is not the best choice for 
precision.  While "is" may be a boring little verb, it is the better 
choice.  Also, this sentence is an example of where a semi-colon 
should be used to join very closely related sentences to avoid 
creating a "run-on" sentence.


"Once a program is loaded by a ::REQUIRES statement in a program it is 
globally cached; other references to that same program by ::REQUIRES 
statements in other programs will resolve to the previously loaded 
program."


By the same token:

"Each interpreter instance has its own copy of the .local environment 
that is shared among all programs executed by it."


I'm afraid the next sentence desperately needs recasting:

"If a program that was loaded already in another interpreter instance 
is referenced with a ::REQUIRES statement for the first time, then the 
initialization code ("prolog") for
the ::REQUIRES file will be executed, in case it needs to tailor the 
.local environment."


Consider:

"If a ::REQUIRES statement references for the first time a program 
that was already loaded in another interpreter instance, the 
initialization code ("prolog") for that ::REQUIRES file will be 
executed in order to tailor the .local environment."


Respectfully submitted,

-Chip-

On 6/4/2017 1:53 PM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 04.06.2017 19:32, Erich Steinböck wrote:


The loaded packages are managed on a global basis

Will file a documentation RFE to document these important aspects

Exactly what kind of information do you see missing from the docs?


In rexxref.pdf, "3.7 ::REQUIRES": the paragraph (right before the 
figure with "ProgramA", "ProgramB" and "ProgramC"):


::REQUIRES directives can be placed anywhere after the main
section of code in the package. The order of ::REQUIRES directives
determines the search order for classes and routines defined in
the named programs and also the load order of the referenced
files. Once a program is loaded by a ::REQUIRES statement in a
program, other references to that same program by ::REQUIRES
statements in other programs will resolve to the previously loaded
program. The initialization code for the ::REQUIRES file will only
be executed on the first reference.

could get the information added in green:

::REQUIRES directives can be placed anywhere after the main
section of code in the package. The order of ::REQUIRES directives
determines the search order for classes and routines defined in
the named programs and also the load order of the referenced
files. Once a program is loaded by a ::REQUIRES statement in a
program it gets globally cached and other references to that same
program by ::REQUIRES statements in other programs will resolve to
the previously loaded program. The initialization code("prolog")
for the ::REQUIRES file will only be executed on the first
referencein each interpreter instance.

In rexxpg.pdf, "8.1. Rexx Interpreter API", extend the second 
paragraph that reads:


If you use the older RexxStart (Section 9.3.3, “The RexxStart
Function”) API to run a Rexx program, the Rexx environment
initializes, runs a single program, and the environment is
terminated. With the RexxCreateInterpreter() API, you have fine
grain control over how the environment is used. You are able to
create a tailored environment, perform multiple operations
(potentially, on multiple threads), create objects that persist
for longer than the life of a single program, etc. An application
can create an interpreter instance once, and reuse it to run
multiple programs.

with the green text:

If you use the older RexxStart (Section 9.3.3, “The RexxStart

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Multi-line literals

[Chip Davis]

As long as we're going "extra-ANSI", wouldn't the square brackets [ 
... ] be more indicative of a "block" of data?  Or are they already 
being used and I missed it?

-Chip-

On 11/2/2016 9:48 AM, Mike Cowlishaw wrote:
>> +1
>
> Equally to 'blow' the use of {} for just one rarely-needed syntax would be a
> profligate waste :-).
>
> So, reserving a character inside for specific purposes would make sense (and
> make the notation more obvious -- we know all too well that in some fonts,
> etc., it's hard to tell '{' from '(', as every C programmer has learned the
> hard way :-}.
>
> So, maybe:   {"escapable character string\n... like NetRexx"}  and perhaps
> allow {'this too'}.  This would allow future extensions using { and } for
> other purposes -- such as to include C code [{C ..?.. C}], or regular
> expressions.
>
> (I always thought early Pascal's comment syntax (* ... *) was better than
> PL/I's /* ... */ because of its better indication of start and end.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> ___
> Oorexx-devel mailing list
> Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
>

--
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Getting Started Questions

[Chip Davis]

Gil, please document your steps so the rest of us superannuated 
canines can follow your lead.

-Chip-

On 9/13/2016 9:18 AM, Rick McGuire wrote:
> Gil, the C++ package has a batch file that will set a bunch of
> environment variables and also add the needed directories to your
> path.  With the version I'm using, this is called VCVarsAll.bat. I'm
> not sure what the bat file is named for the express version, but it
> probably starts with VCVars. This batch file is also how you can
> specify whether you wish to build your code as 32-bit or 64-bit.
>
> Rick
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Gil Barmwater
> > wrote:
>
> The recent RexxLA Symposium inspired me to start looking at
> writing and
> building external routines and methods in C++ and, eventually,
> building
> the ooRexx project from a checked-out copy on Source Forge.  I decided
> to start with the excellent presentation from last year's Symposium by
> Rony so I downloaded his presentation, code and makefiles and reviewed
> them enough to feel like I could attempt to get them to work.  But I
> needed a C++ package so, at Rene's suggestion at this year's
> Symposium,
> I downloaded and installed Visual Studio Express (I chose not to
> install
> Community even though that was the link that Rene supplied).  This
> is a
> huge package - 12GB - that took a long time to install but it
> eventually
> completed.
>
> Now I'm confused as to what to do next!  Do I need to do anything in
> Visual Studio to get the C++ tools - like NMAKE - installed? Typing
> nmake (or cl even) at a command prompt gives me "'nmake' is not
> recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or
> batch
> file."  So clearly, the C++ tools are not in my path.
>
> Any help for this old dog trying to learn new tricks is greatly
> appreciated!
>
> --
>
> Gil Barmwater
>
>
> 
> --
> ___
> Oorexx-devel mailing list
> Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> 
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
> 
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> ___
> Oorexx-devel mailing list
> Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
>

--
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] New operating system DARWIN

[Chip Davis]

That happens a lot.  And the whole world speaks ASCII, too... :-/

On 8/17/2016 3:52 PM, Mike Cowlishaw wrote:
> OK thanks.
>
> [On big-endian platforms, you may be forgetting System Z.]
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> No, it runs on Intel these days. Besides Power and Sparc there are
> not many big endian platforms anymore. ARM can do both, but runs
> little endian mostly the days.
> Moritz
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 06:09 Mike Cowlishaw  > wrote:
>
>
> [Off-topic side-question.]
>
> I had (and still have) a virtual machine with a stand-alone
> Darwin operating
> system, because it was the only big-endian PC operating system
> that I could
> find for testing arithmetic code that was endian-sensitive.
>
> Just wondering if it is still big-endian?
>
> Mike

--
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] New operating system DARWIN

[Chip Davis]

This might benefit from a little more discussion since the ANSI 
Standard is of no help here.

The purpose of the first token returned from PARSE SOURCE is to 
provide enough information to the running application that it has a 
fighting chance of knowing if what it's getting ready to do, will work.

If all the current Windows builds do indeed return "WindowsNT" we've 
had a problem for some time.  (I'm still running WinXP; how would I 
know?)  At the very least it should indicate the architecture, if not 
the OS name, so that the application could be warned about such 
changes as the enhanced application security and other "improvements".

We have had issues with ooRexx backwards compatibility (ain't going 
there) so I'd say let the string start with "Windows" and suffix it 
with the appropriate major release indicator string (and architecture).

I notice that my version of Regina displays:

parse version v ; say v
REXX-Regina_3.7(MT) 5.00 14 Oct 2012
---
parse source s ; say s
WIN32 COMMAND C:\Chip\bin\rxtry.rx

I'd like to see "Windows7(32)".  Just about anything is more useful 
than "WindowsNT".

-Chip-


On 8/16/2016 2:44 PM, Erich Steinböck wrote:
> With René's ooRexx5 buiild on MacOS X we have a new operating system
> name "DARWIN", which parse source will return.
>
> From some older Rexx scripts I can see that we seem to have had builds
> which returned "MACOS" as the first parse source token.
>
> Do we want "DARWIN" to be the OS indicator for our new Mac OS build,
> or do we want to use the previous "MACOS" name (backwards compatibility)?
>
>
> Currently all Windows builds return "WindowsNT", all Linux flavours
> (Red-hat-based, Debian-based, etc.) return "LINUX".  Non-Linux Unixes,
> like AIX, HP-UX, or Mac OS, seem to have used to return their own OS
> names.
>
>
> I'm also noting that our code base in some areas ignores anything
> except Linux or Windows. E. g. some regression are either Linux or
> Windows-specific.  Or e. g. DARWIN has neither a SysWinVer nor a
> SysLinVer function ..
>
> Your comments are welcome ..
>
> Erich
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> ___
> Oorexx-devel mailing list
> Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
>


--
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Running ooRexx without superuser power ... (Re: ooRexxUnit return codes

[Chip Davis]

My apologies.  I missed the fact that the only way you were able to 
run ooRexx on a Shared Server was to patch and rebuilt the processor 
from source.  Not likely we'll get much interest from users on shared 
or corporate Linux systems with that requirement.

I've upvoted your RFE.

-Chip-

On 7/5/2016 1:39 PM, Michael Lueck wrote:
> Greetings Chip,
>
> Chip Davis wrote:
>> Would you care to describe your magic incantation?
>
>
>
> Most of the documentation is in that RFE...
>
>
> "#542 Support non-root interpreter installation and execution on Unix-like 
> systems"
> https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/feature-requests/542/
>
>
> Specifically changing on of the ooRexx source files:
>
> rexxapi\server\platform\unix\APIService.cpp
>
> // For testing purposes comment out the following line to force RXAPI to
> // run as a foreground process.
> #undef RUN_AS_DAEMON
>
> #ifdef RUN_AS_DAEMON
> #define OOREXX_PIDFILE "/var/run/ooRexx.pid"
> bool run_as_daemon = true;
> #else
> #define OOREXX_PIDFILE 
> "/kunden/homepages/35/d157794216/htdocs/opt/oorexx/var/run/ooRexx.pid"
> bool run_as_daemon = true;
> #endif
>
>
> Then building and installing from the patched source.
>
> My organization standard was to in my home directory build an opt/ directory, 
> then package names as the next level... and to consider that directory as the 
> virtual root. Thus .../var/run/ right where
> ooRexx wanted to place its PID file in the first place.
>
> I am thankful,
>

--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Running ooRexx without superuser power ... (Re: ooRexxUnit return codes

[Chip Davis]

Michael,

I have a couple of those Shared Web Hosting accounts, primarily to 
support a cluster of Mailman listservers.  I had always thought that 
there was no way to install ooRexx on any of them for exactly the 
reason you describe: no root access and/or the lack of directory 
permissions.

Would you care to describe your magic incantation?  Or perhaps offer 
the procedure as a presentation at the Symposium?  It would make an 
excellent companion to Les' user-experience presentation on how to 
install Regina (and ooRexx) on a thumbdrive. ;-)

I'm running Linux at 2.6.32-642.el6.x86_64 if that matters.

If this has been a secret to only me, someone please point me to the 
documentation of how to do it.  (And if there is none, shouldn't that 
be on someone's To-Do list?)

I would be grateful... ;-)

-Chip-

On 7/4/2016 11:04 PM, Michael Lueck wrote:
> Greetings Erich,
>
> Erich Steinböck wrote:
>> What kind of request is this?
>>
>> A build - time request?
>
>> Or a run-time request?
>
>
> I thought it could only be done as a build-time request, as once the binaries 
> are built, I would not see how it possible to enforce a prefix upon the 
> binaries.
>
> That RFE went round and round between Mark and myself... I trying to point 
> out that the prefix option was supported natively in the Linux version of the 
> source code and build tools capabilities...
> just that it did not actually work due to the hard coded PID file path in the 
> ooRexx source code, and Mark rejecting to accept it as a bug/defect against 
> ooRexx.
>
> I tried to research how other OSS/FS projects handled their PID file, and 
> building from source with a custom prefix path... I do not exactly remember 
> what conclusion that research produced. I believe
> I went asking in the MySQL developer group as MySQL also uses a PID file.
>
> I recall it being very hard to get folks on the ooRexx developer team to 
> understand typical Linux Shared Web Hosting providers restrictions. The fact 
> that I as a customer of hosting company am NOT
> granted a root account seemed to be the point of disconnect.
>
> All's well that ends well... ooRexx is still reliably working in Linux Share 
> Web Hosting:
>
> (uiserver):u40009095:~ > which rexx
> /kunden/homepages/35/d157794216/htdocs/opt/oorexx/bin/rexx
>
> (uiserver):u40009095:~ > rexx -v
> Open Object Rexx Version 4.2.0
> Build date: Mar  2 2014
> Addressing Mode: 32
>
> Copyright (c) IBM Corporation 1995, 2004.
> Copyright (c) RexxLA 2005-2013.
> All Rights Reserved.
> This program and the accompanying materials are made available under
> the terms of the Common Public License v1.0 which accompanies this
> distribution or at
> http://www.oorexx.org/license.html
>
>
> I am thankful,
>


--
Attend Shape: An AT Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT Park in San
Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
http://sdm.link/attshape
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Ad higher resolution image of the ooRexx logo (Re: ooRexx doc and builds

[Chip Davis]

I too prefer the interlinked 'O's over the original logo (which is 
what is on my everyday laptop bag) if for no other reason than it does 
not look like a pair of googly-eyes.  (That term comes from the 
Barney Google comic strip and song of the twenties, not the search 
engine.)

-Chip-

On 6/28/2015 8:10 AM, Jon Wolfers wrote:
 Hi All,

 the 'original' logo was designed by Julian Choy, and I didn't have
 anything to do with it's adoption.  Personally I like Rony's logo with
 the interlinked 'O's better, but it may be that others are more
 attached to the old one, in which case they should say so here.  I
 don't know where the resources for the old one would be now, and I'm
 not keen to disturb Mark for this.

 Jon

 On 28 June 2015 at 13:02, René Jansen rvjan...@xs4all.nl
 mailto:rvjan...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 Hi Rony,

 this is a nice on, thanks! I will speak to Jon about this; I see
 them as a very viable alternative.

 Thanks!

 best regards,

 René.

   On 28 jun. 2015, at 13:46, Rony G. Flatscher
 rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at mailto:rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at wrote:
  
   On 25.06.2015 17:47, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
   On 25.06.2015 17:01, René Jansen wrote:
   The good news is, I can build the ooRexx documentation now in
 an automated way with Jenkins (with help from Jean-Louis, altough
 I decided to build on Linux in the end because of too much hassle
 on MacOSX - but I needed all his tips anyway). So somewhere this
 weekend we will have nightly builds of the docs on the website.
  
   My first (1) question is, do we have a higher resolution
 image of the ooRexx logo? This one is not print resolution (it is
 not even screen resolution and has artifacts) and it needs to be
 replaced. Also (2), we need a keep-together on the word
 “documentation because it is being split on the title pages.
   Did you find any in the meantime? Originally the logo got
 created by a friend of Mark Hessling,
   whose name escaped me (an Australian if I am not mistaken),
 maybe Mark still has a copy of them.
  
   If not, I can offer the ooRexx icons I have been using for the
 BSF4ooRexx project, which are
   availabe in all sort of renderings (have to research where I
 placed his originals, which included
   svg, if not mistaken; I attach oorexx_256.png). They got
 created by Graham Wilson (South Africa)
   who made them freely available for the Rexx/ooRexx project as a
 support measurement for the Rexx
   project(s). As a result I have
  
   ---rony
  
  
 
 oorexx_256.png--
   Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
   OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
   network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via
 email  sms
   for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction.
 Download now
  
 
 http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o___
   Oorexx-devel mailing list
   Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 mailto:Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
   https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


 
 --
 Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
 OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
 network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms
 for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction.
 Download now
 http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 mailto:Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel




 --
 Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
 OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
 network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms
 for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
 http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o



 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



--
Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now

Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx and the mainframe...

[Chip Davis]

Very interesting, Dave.  Too bad it arrived mere days before the VM 
Workshop; it would have made an excellent presentation.  As soon as I 
get my current all-consuming project flying, I'll have a look at it.

Not quite sure about your question; are you asking if issuing a Linux 
command with redirection is anything other that enclosing it in quotes?

The ANSI Standard specifies an elegant enhancement to the 'Address' 
statement (ADDRESS ... WITH ...) that performs redirection of a 
command (individually or globally) without using '' or '' but I 
don't think ooRexx implemented it.  Regina does, however.

-Chip-

On 6/17/2015 1:16 PM, Dave Jones wrote:
 Hello, all.

 This just appeared on the IBM z/VM web download page:

 The runREXX Framework
 Overview

 Do you want to develop, test and run REXX programs with a few mouse
 clicks? Then the provided runREXX framework will do the trick for you.

 The framework allows to develop REXX programs intuitivly in an eclipse
 framework. This could be classic REXX but also ooREXX.

 runREXX is fully implemented in REXX by taking in account the context of
 the selected file to be processed.

 runREXX also contains a preprocessor to create reusable functions and
 allow selective unit testing of a part of a program or the program
 itself. Other built in features are provided such as to create source
 code documentation. For example it supports creating html from
 BookMaster tags (using the tool B2H).

 By using eclipse as the underlying framework it enriches runREXX with
 its capabilities dependend on which eclipse based distribution is used.
 One nice built-in feature of eclipse is the file compares and searches
 with refactoring support. The other is the use of source code library
 systems to manage eclipse project contents.

 You can locate the package here:

 http://www.vm.ibm.com/download/packages/descript.cgi?RUNREXX

 Note that the package requires ooRexx on the workstation.

 On an unrelated matter, what is the canonical method in ooRexx running
 on Linux for issuing a Linux command and capturing the command's normal
 STDOUT output and STDERR, too?


--
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Current rail-diagrams in ooRexx 5.0 docs wrong

[Chip Davis]

We all can agree that the existing ASCII-art rail diagrams are 
unacceptable, from both an esthetic and information-transfer 
standpoint.  We must adopt an alternative.

While Jean-Louis' renderings are much better, they suffer from the 
visual clutter of unnecessary arrowheads.  The flow through a rail 
diagram is left-to-right except for a repetition of a term, which in 
ASCII-art required a back-arrow (e.g. MIN) to distinguish it from a 
default value.

Erich's arrow-free diagrams accomplish this distinction with curved 
lines.  J-L's approach uses the same curved lines but inserts multiple 
arrowheads which add nothing but visual clutter.

I very much prefer the clean renderings of Erich's approach because it 
has no internal arrowheads at all.  Also, it has the ability to use 
bold fonts, which is useful to denote a value taken as a constant.

Regardless of the tool eventually adopted, we really must go back 
through the diagrams and verify their accuracy.  I happened to notice 
that the diagrams differ in their depictions of Overlay() and I'm not 
sure either one is totally correct.

It must be noted that Erich's RexxRef5 file is only 6 Meg whereas the 
JLF RexxRef4.2 is not quite twice as large.  I doubt all those extra 
arrowheads made that much difference, but it's worth comparing the 
size of the two approaches within the same document.

-Chip-

On 6/14/2015 11:55 AM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
 The syntax rail-diagrams that currently get created are wrong in the
 areas, where there are optional arguments. The optional arguments are
 not identifiable and it is not clear what the default values would be,
 if an optional value is left out.

 This is probably due to a limitation in the rail-diagram tool that is
 being used, which I understand is some service on the WWW which has
 these limitations. Judging from studying the thread that David Ashley
 started (2014-07-31, 17:57)
 https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/mailman/message/32669824/ until the
 last post where this shortcoming was pointed out, without any further
 feedback by David Ashley:
 https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/mailman/message/32699294/
 (2014-08-09, 18:32, by J. Leslie Turriff).

 ---

 Not all developers may be aware, that years before that Jean-Louis has
 suggested svn-syntax-rail-diagrams to replace the (rather ugly)
 ASCII-syntax-rail-diagrams already. He not only suggested it but did
 all the necessary work and came up with beautiful PDFs and HTMLs
 renderings that include syntax rail-diagrams that are able to document
 optional arguments and default values. Unfortunately (and for no
 apparent reasons that I am aware of), years ago, his hard work was not
 picked up and put into production for the ooRexx distributions.

 Maybe it is worthwhile at this point of development to take a look at
 the different presentations of syntax-rail-diagrams,

   * rendered as ASCII-snytax-rail-diagrams (just load the ooRexx 4.2.0
 rexxref.pdf from your ooRexx installation),
   * the current 5.0 rexxref.pdf rendering (thanks to Erich in his
 svn-sandbox, 'sandbox/erich/docs/build' which one gets when
 checking out the ooRexx project with svn) at
 
 https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/code-0/HEAD/tarball?path=/sandbox/erich/docs/build
 named rexxref5.pdf and
   * the ooRexx 4.2.0 rexxref.pdf by Jean-Louis at
 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20049088/oorexx/docs/trunk/index.html.

 You can find all three versions of the PDF-documentation at
 http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/ so it is easier for you to
 load and compare them (listed in the same order is above):

   * ooRexx 4.2.0 official ASCII-syntax-rail-diagrams:
 http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/rexxref.pdf,
   * ooRexx 5.0.0, Erich's preliminary rendering
 http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/rexxref5.pdf,
   * ooRexx 4.2.0, Jean Louis's renderings:
 http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/rexxref4.2-jlf.pdf.

 Then in all three versions go to chapter Functions - Built-in
 Functions - Stream and compare the syntax rail-diagrams of the
 three, and I think you will see for yourself, why I suggest to go with
 Jean-Louis' solution for creating correct and still very nice looking
 syntax rail-diagrams for the project.

 ---rony



 --



 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


--
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Looking Forwards...

[Chip Davis]

No, Jon.  Rony has it right, and one of the few things we can do fight 
it is to publicly boycott them.

I had a Facebook account before I discovered how little control I had 
over my personal information.  (Sharing personal information is, after 
all, their primary product.)  So I deactivated my account.  They said 
Fine, your account is now deactivated, but if you ever want to 
reactivate it, just log back in.  It appears that while my account 
may not be active, they are keeping all of my data around somewhere.

My LinkedIn account has generated exactly zero business for me (and 
terabytes of UCE).  They seem to be following a Facebook trajectory, 
so it too will soon get the axe, for whatever good it will do me.

-Chip-

On 4/19/2015 7:21 AM, Jon Wolfers wrote:
 Moritz - I echo pretty much what Rony has said.  Thank you for what
 you have done.  I don't have a facebook account - not through any
 principle, I just don't want to lose the time that it would take to
 keep up.  Google also subscribed me to google+ and I have never used it.

 I hope that someone else on the list can join you here.  If not, then
 I will bite the bullet and sign up to FB and activate G+.

--
BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT
Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard
Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises
http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_
source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15utm_medium=emailutm_campaign=VA_SF
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Maybe an Odd Question

[Chip Davis]

Wow!  What a great idea.  I'm submitting an enhancement request to 
Thunderbird.

-Chip-

On 10/22/2014 3:38 AM, erich.steinboeck wrote:
 grumble...gmail...grumble


 Rick, Gmail has got a nice Undo Send feature that you can enable in
 your Settings (click on the gear-wheel, then Settings) under

 *Enable Undo Send* Y/N
 *Send cancellation period*: xx *seconds*

 After sending a mail, you will then – for the duration of the
 cancellation period – see a message at the top *Your message has been
 sent. Undo*, where Undo can be clicked. Setting that period to 10
 seconds usually gives me enough time to cancel any unintentional sending.

 On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Rick McGuire wrote:

 grumble...gmail...grumble...not slickedit...grumble.

 Anyway, that would add 1 to the object and return a new object.


--
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] DISCUSS: #158 Add iteration over a supplier to DO/LOOP

[Chip Davis]

My nano-cent contribution is that this ('with index i item v over x') 
seems to be a much more Rexx-ish syntax than the previous proposals.

-Chip-

On 10/13/2014 8:46 AM, Rick McGuire wrote:
 I am most definitely not trying to redefine how OVER works and really
 can't for compatibility reasons.  I'm trying to address the situations
 where iteration over a collection where both the item and index are
 significant and having the loop instruction handle a lot of the
 details to prevent errors.  Supplier was supposed to be that iterator
 mechanism, but by itself, is proving to be hard to use and error prone.

 Right now, I'm finding I'm not comfortable about how the parsing of
 this instruction has to proceed.  The validity of the list of
 variables cannot be determined until you encounter the WITH keyword.
 I think this can work, but perhaps we should try some other
 approaches.  Maybe something completely keyword based?

 loop with index i item v over x

 The with keyword indicates you have multiple variables, the item and
 index keywords indicate which variable gets which value, removing the
 argument about what is the appropriate order to specify these... and
 one or the other variable can be optional, depending what you need.
 The OVER keyword can still be used, but know the loop can examine the
 result and decide what the most appropriate iteration means should be
 for the type of object it receives.

 Rick

 On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:13 AM, Brandon Cherry
 bran...@safedatausa.com mailto:bran...@safedatausa.com wrote:

 On 10/11/2014 7:22 AM, Rick McGuire wrote:
  Right now, I'm thinking I quite like Walter's suggestion of using WITH
  as the keyword.  I think it should be possible to also make the second
  variable optional, which would make is similar to DO OVER, but not
  necessarily identical, because the single variable will either be always
  an index or always a value, where DO OVER assignments are determined by
  what the OVER object returns for MAKEARRAY.
 
   Rick

 I would like with to be reserved for something like a resource that
 needs to be setup and torn down. That is how this instruction is
 currently used in other languages. Using it for what is proposed
 will be
 just another quirk to ooRexx and make it harder for people who
 might be
 switching from another language.

 Here are some examples:

 -- file is closed
 do file with handle
 -- file is opened
 char = handle~charin(1)
 end
 -- file is closed

 Exact syntax I am not sure of but the basic idea being that file
 would
 be some arguments defining file path and open type. The handle being
 the variable you can reference in the do block. This could also make
 working with semaphores, sockets, and who knows what else easier, too.

 Have you given some thought to just defining an iterator class and
 making the over instruction only handle iterators? I have generally
 assumed that supplier is suppose to be the closest thing in ooRexx
 that
 is similar to that. Something to think about since you are wanting to
 redefine how over works.
 --
 Brandon Cherry

 
 --
 Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer
 Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS
 Reports
 Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper
 Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 mailto:Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel




 --
 Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer
 Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports
 Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper
 Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho



 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


--
Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer
Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports
Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper
Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Testers wanted...

[Chip Davis]

Well Rick, I find flying a helicopter not that hard to learn too but 
most folks beg to differ.  ;-)

You need to gently coach Les or Walter through the process and have 
them tell the rest of us mere mortals that it's easier than it looks.

Is there a tutorial or readily available documentation on the care and 
feeding of the test framework?  Sometimes, getting over the first 
learning curb is the biggest hurdle.

-Chip-

On 10/4/2014 5:35 PM, Rick McGuire wrote:
 We have the build machine issues more or less worked out so that we're
 getting daily builds on the trunk version again.  Anybody interested
 in writing test cases for any of the new features?  ...cue the sound
 of crickets chirping :-)

 You will need to learn how to write tests using the test framework,
 which seriously, is not that hard to learn and there are lots of
 examples in our test suite to work from.

--
Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer
Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports
Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper
Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] More square brackets

[Chip Davis]

For Classic Rexx compatibility, perhaps:

  = eval-both AND
- = short-circuit AND
|  = eval-both OR
|- = short-circuit OR
 = eval-both XOR

OTOH, if the ooRexx '' and '|' operators are already defined to 
short-circuit, how about:

  = short-circuit AND
+ = eval-both AND
|  = short-circuit OR
|+ = eval-both OR
 = eval-both 

?

-Chip-

On 9/24/2014 10:17 AM, Rick McGuire wrote:
 I've started coding this up, and the , syntax for list creation
 looks very doable.  The meaning of the , depends on the context, as
 already noted, but the contexts are absolutely unambiguous so it is
 always possible to assign the correct meaning.

 However, I want to circle back around to the discussion of the
 short-circuited AND.  We can't eliminate the usage on IF/WHEN, etc.,
 but on the other hand, there are certainly contexts where an and
 operator that uses short-circuit logic might be useful.  One could
 argue that an OR version could also be useful.  I don't believe this
 is possible for XOR, since the result always depends on both values.
 Are there any operator combinations that would make sense?  Doubling
 up obviously doesn't work because  and || are already operators.

 Rick

 On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Mike Cowlishaw m...@speleotrove.com
 mailto:m...@speleotrove.com wrote:

 __

 __
 On further reflection, the conditional expression cannot
 be merged with a simple redefinition.  The conditional
 expressions have the shortcut feature where not all of
 the expressions need to be evaluated.  The conditionals
 will still need to be a special case because of that.

 Also on further reflection .. perhaps the
 conditional case could drop the shortcut
 feature.   In other words: all the expressions
 are evaluated, and if any of them are true
 then the THEN/WHEN path is taken.

 No, we can't do that.  The whole point of that feature
 was to allow for the shortcut to happen!  This allows
 for tests like

 if a~isa(.String), a~length  0 then

 to work.  This instruction would give an error if all
 of the expressions are evaluated because the second
 test is only value if the first test is true. Making
 that change would break every single program I've
 written that uses that construct since I only use that
 sort of conditional because of the shortcut behaviour.

 Understood ... shortcut mechanism is good.  What I'm
 suggesting is that my choice of using commas to
 indicate that behavior could perhaps be improved upon,
 especially given the recent discussion.
 Or, more generally ... some way to apply shortcuts in
 all expressions, not just in the IF/WHEN special case.
 I don't think ooRexx needs to follow NetRexx in this
 .. hindsight has value.


 ooRexx has already followed NetRexx in this and even gone a
 little beyond in adding this also to while and until loop
 conditions.  I don't see how shortcutting would have any
 meaning in the other places where we'd wish to generate lists
 of items.  All of the expressions really need to be evaluated
 in those situations to generate the array.  The list usage in
 conditionals really is quite a different construct.  In
 addition to the shortcut evaluation, they also do not allow
 omitted expressions, which work just fine in the other
 contexts (e.g., argument lists).

 I don't really see much value into trying to force-fit these
 together.  It's not really necessary to have everything work out.
 I guess I wasn't explicit enough.  I was thinking that using
 commas for the 'short cut' case was short sighted, and maybe a
 different syntax for that would be better.  So the comma
 notation would always be 'evaluate them all' and something
 different would be 'this is a sequence of logical tests
 that can be short-circuited'.   (Consider  vs.  in C.)
 Commas might indeed be the best, here, but worth exploring
 alternatives, briefly at least?
 Mike


 
 --
 Slashdot TV.  Video for Nerds.  Stuff that Matters.
 
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=160591471iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 mailto:Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel




 

Re: [Oorexx-devel] REXXLA site presentation abstracts

[Chip Davis]

On 8/5/2014 5:44 PM Walter Pachl said:
 Nothing as bad as a book cover without pages :-(
 --
 Walter
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Perhaps, Walter.

We all have our nothing's as bad list.  Rick, for example, has a 
thing about speculative informal bug reports.  I, otoh, have gotten 
very testy about folks hijacking a discussion thread, thereby 
polluting the original discussion subject while burying the new one in 
the archives and in any threaded listing.

You can't fool any sensible mailer into creating a new discussion 
topic by hitting Reply and replacing the original 'Subject:' and 
body text of the email.  The mailer knows you hit Reply instead of 
New Mail (or whatever it is on your mailer) and will still include 
references to the original postings in your new posting.

I administer so many discussion listservers that I have literally lost 
count (more than ten, less than twenty, I think).  This is a pervasive 
problem so I have highlighted the hotlink in each posting's footer (e.g.):

New Subject: Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

This makes it easy for subscribers to start a new discussion subject 
while reading a posting on a different topic.  It still doesn't 
register with many of my subscribers. :-(

But I do not administer the OORexx discussion lists, and I know you to 
be a man of formidable intellectual skills and experience, so I will 
simply point out that it takes exactly the same number of clicks (one) 
to Reply to an irrelevant posting as it does to use the link at the 
bottom of every posting to start a new topic.  You don't even have to 
clear out the 'Subject:' line or the quoted lines in the body of the 
bogus reply.

As to your original request:

RexxLA has always been a volunteer-supported (dis-)organization of 
members demanding that some cat or another desperately needs to be 
belled.  Thus, 99% of the work has always been done by 1% of the 
membership.  Currently, that 1% is René, for whom I have the utmost 
respect and sympathy, having worn those shoes for many years myself.

Very likely, the Symposium presentations are still extant and simply 
need to be collected, collated, and uploaded to the RexxLA website. 
This is not likely to be a task that will rise to the urgency of 
getting the latest NetRexx release stable and available, or whatever 
René is doing these days to earn a living.

It would, however, be an ideal task for a motivated retired Rexx 
enthusiast to undertake.  I can think of several excellent candidates, 
can you?

Best Regards,

-Chip-


--
Infragistics Professional
Build stunning WinForms apps today!
Reboot your WinForms applications with our WinForms controls. 
Build a bridge from your legacy apps to the future.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=153845071iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] pSeries Access for ooRexx from IBM

[Chip Davis]

Depending on the level of z/OS or z/VM access required (probably not 
sysprog) I may have a possibility with an academic institution.  Let 
me know if I should pursue.

-Chip-

On 7/9/2014 10:31 AM David Ashley said:
 The group I am working with does not provide zSeries resources. I am
 looking into other possibilities at IBM for zSeries resources.

 David Ashley

 On Wed, 2014-07-09 at 16:23 +0200, René Jansen wrote:
 Hi David,

 I think this would be a good addition to the range, and when provided with 
 access I would certainly use it. I hope the limited access aspect does not 
 add overhead to the build process.

 Would it be possible to get a similar deal for Z (z/OS, z/Linux?) access?

 best regards,

 René Jansen.

 On 9 jul. 2014, at 16:00, David Ashley w.david.ash...@gmail.com wrote:

 All -

 I have been in discussions with IBM about providing two Linux pSeries
 VMs for the ooRexx project through their PartnerWorld program. One VM
 would run RHEL 7.0 and the other SLES 11.3. I have not gone public with
 these discussions until now because I figured that it would probably not
 work out. But now we have come to a point where I need feedback from the
 project team because it looks like we really can get access to these
 VMs.

 The sticky point is that the access would be a limited time access but
 with the possibility of subsequently renewing that access multiple
 times. That means that when the access runs out we could reactivate it
 when we needed it again in the future for the same period.

 I think that this arrangement would be acceptable but I want
 confirmation from the team before I proceed. We can get a 30 day access
 period with no trouble at all. Longer periods, up to 180 days, will be
 more work (mostly on IBM's part) but is still doable.

 This access would allow us to be able to break into the pSeries market
 with no monetary outlay. We could do periodic builds and testing on
 these VMs with very little work on our part.

 So what does everyone think about this?

 David Ashley


 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
 Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
 Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
 Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
 Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
 Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
 Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



--
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] pSeries Access for ooRexx from IBM

[Chip Davis]

I misunderstood.

I gather you don't really need z/OS (or z/VM) as much as a RedHat 
z/Linux LPAR.  I don't know if they are running Linux on the bare 
metal or if it's a guest under Z/VM, but I'll check.  Does it matter?

-Chip-

On 7/9/2014 3:57 PM David Ashley said:
 Actually, to start with, we would only need an LPAR that has RHEL
 installed on it. Marist College already supplies us with an LPAR for
 SLES on zSeries.

 David Ashley

 On Wed, 2014-07-09 at 13:30 -0400, Chip Davis wrote:
 Depending on the level of z/OS or z/VM access required (probably not
 sysprog) I may have a possibility with an academic institution.  Let
 me know if I should pursue.

 -Chip-

 On 7/9/2014 10:31 AM David Ashley said:
 The group I am working with does not provide zSeries resources. I am
 looking into other possibilities at IBM for zSeries resources.

 David Ashley

 On Wed, 2014-07-09 at 16:23 +0200, René Jansen wrote:
 Hi David,

 I think this would be a good addition to the range, and when provided with 
 access I would certainly use it. I hope the limited access aspect does not 
 add overhead to the build process.

 Would it be possible to get a similar deal for Z (z/OS, z/Linux?) access?

 best regards,

 René Jansen.

 On 9 jul. 2014, at 16:00, David Ashley w.david.ash...@gmail.com wrote:

 All -

 I have been in discussions with IBM about providing two Linux pSeries
 VMs for the ooRexx project through their PartnerWorld program. One VM
 would run RHEL 7.0 and the other SLES 11.3. I have not gone public with
 these discussions until now because I figured that it would probably not
 work out. But now we have come to a point where I need feedback from the
 project team because it looks like we really can get access to these
 VMs.

 The sticky point is that the access would be a limited time access but
 with the possibility of subsequently renewing that access multiple
 times. That means that when the access runs out we could reactivate it
 when we needed it again in the future for the same period.

 I think that this arrangement would be acceptable but I want
 confirmation from the team before I proceed. We can get a 30 day access
 period with no trouble at all. Longer periods, up to 180 days, will be
 more work (mostly on IBM's part) but is still doable.

 This access would allow us to be able to break into the pSeries market
 with no monetary outlay. We could do periodic builds and testing on
 these VMs with very little work on our part.

 So what does everyone think about this?

 David Ashley


 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community 
 Edition
 Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
 Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
 Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
 Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
 Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
 Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
 Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
 Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



 --
 Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
 Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
 Quickly connect

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Remainder operation for complex numbers

[Chip Davis]

Mike,

All the definitions I can find for remaindering are essentially 
variants of modulus/modulo.  The modulus of a complex number is 
pretty well defined as simply the length of the vector.

It's not clear to me what sort of value one would expect to get from a 
remainder of the quotient of the integer division of two imaginary 
numbers; an integer modulus and an integer angle, maybe?

-Chip-

On 6/10/2014 1:33 PM Mike Cowlishaw said:
 Worth doing right, I'd say.  The place to ask is the IEEE 754 mailing
 list (open to all), which is (a) very quiet at the moment and (b)
 followed by all the best people in the world to answer such a
 question.  Be clear that you want the Remainder rather than the Modulus.
 Mike

 --
 *From:* Rick McGuire [mailto:object.r...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* 10 June 2014 16:25
 *To:* Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
 *Subject:* [Oorexx-devel] Remainder operation for complex numbers

 This is a challenge for the mathematically inclined members of our
 audience:  Now would you define a remainder operation on complex
 numbers?

 I decided I would update some of the ooRexx samples for some of
 the newer language features, since many of these samples are are
 20+ years old.  I started with the complex number one, and during
 my ad hoc testing, I was surprised to see that

 5+0i // 2+0i was giving a result of 2+0i.  This is clearly wrong.
   The method implementing // just took the algorithm for division
 and changed the operator to //.  This worked for the % operation,
 but fails badly for //.  The code is this:

a=real/* get real and imaginaries for   */
b=imaginary/* both numbers   */
c=divisor~real
d=divisor~imaginary
qr=((b*d)+(a*c))//(c**2+d**2)/* generate the new result values */

 qi=((b*c)-(a*d))//(c**2+d**2)

 For both imaginary values zero, this results in a*c//c**2, or in
 my example 10//4, which is off by a factor of 2.  I'm inclined to
 just delete this method, but if somebody can come up with a
 reliable algorithm, I'd consider putting it in.

 Rick



 --
 HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
 Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
 Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
 Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing  Easy Data Exploration
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems



 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


--
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing  Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Remainder operation for complex numbers

[Chip Davis]

IANAM, so this is more of a inclination by a mathematically 
challenged member ...

The 'remainder' for two numbers 'a'  'b' is 'x=a%b' with the sign of 
'a' preserved in 'x'.  The 'modulus' OTOH, preserves the sign of 'b'.

It's not clear to me how that information would be preserved with 
imaginary operands.

Could we simply declare that the '//' operator on complex numbers 
would be the modulus?  Then it becomes relatively easy:

   x + yi = (a + bi) % (c + di)

   m = sqrt( x**2, y**2 )

I can see no way that the operation could return the quadrant in which 
the imaginary point lies, however.

-Chip-

On 6/10/2014 11:25 AM Rick McGuire said:
 This is a challenge for the mathematically inclined members of our
 audience:  Now would you define a remainder operation on complex numbers?

 I decided I would update some of the ooRexx samples for some of the
 newer language features, since many of these samples are are 20+ years
 old.  I started with the complex number one, and during my ad hoc
 testing, I was surprised to see that

 5+0i // 2+0i was giving a result of 2+0i.  This is clearly wrong.  The
 method implementing // just took the algorithm for division and
 changed the operator to //.  This worked for the % operation, but
 fails badly for //.  The code is this:

a=real/* get real and imaginaries for   */
b=imaginary/* both numbers   */
c=divisor~real
d=divisor~imaginary
qr=((b*d)+(a*c))//(c**2+d**2)/* generate the new result values */

 qi=((b*c)-(a*d))//(c**2+d**2)

 For both imaginary values zero, this results in a*c//c**2, or in my
 example 10//4, which is off by a factor of 2.  I'm inclined to just
 delete this method, but if somebody can come up with a reliable
 algorithm, I'd consider putting it in.

 Rick


 --
 HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
 Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
 Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
 Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing  Easy Data Exploration
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems



 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


--
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing  Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Remainder operation for complex numbers

[Chip Davis]

[ Funny how you have to see something in print before you recognize 
that it's wrong... :-/ ]

On 6/10/2014 1:42 PM I said:
 IANAM, so this is more of a inclination by a mathematically
 challenged member ...

Apparently true.

 The 'remainder' for two numbers 'a'  'b' is 'x=a%b' with the sign of
 'a' preserved in 'x'.  The 'modulus' OTOH, preserves the sign of 'b'.

Patently false.  That should have been 'x=a-((a%b)*b)' I'm afraid.

I'm still not sure if there is useful purpose (besides orthogonality) 
for a remainder of complex numbers operator.

-Chip-

--
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing  Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] WG: [Oorexx-users] How's the shell seeing what Rexx is doing internally, and why does it care?

[Chip Davis]

I can't help in any practical way Walter, but the most common reason 
for this is that you replied to the post from an account that didn't 
match the account to which it was sent.

This can happen when one is reading Oorexx-devel on a smart phone 
that doesn't allow (or make it easy) to specify the appropriate 
From: address for your reply.

Otherwise, I don't know why it thinks you are not subscribed.

-Chip-

On 4/28/2014 3:09 AM Walter Pachl said:
 Again...
 Who can help me

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: oorexx-users-ow...@lists.sourceforge.net
 [mailto:oorexx-users-ow...@lists.sourceforge.net]
 Gesendet: Montag, 28. April 2014 09:02
 An: christel.u.w.pa...@chello.at
 Betreff: AW: [Oorexx-users] How's the shell seeing what Rexx is doing
 internally, and why does it care?

 You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been
 automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are being rejected
 in error, contact the mailing list owner at
 oorexx-users-ow...@lists.sourceforge.net.


--
Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.  Get 
unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available.
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx Web Site Download Page

[Chip Davis]

I agree that the oorexx.org/download.html page has gotten a little 
long, but it would be quite manageable if it reflected only the latest 
version of ooRexx.  I'd put the older versions on a separate page and 
link to that from the main download page.

I don't think I'm alone in finding Sourceforge to be obstreperously 
obtuse.  You need a burrowing link to it to find anything.  (See how 
many tries it takes a neophyte to find the ooRexx page if you make him 
start at http://sourceforge.net).

Once there, I think the Looking for the latest version? prompt 
probably does more harm than good, given the number of platforms 
ooRexx supports these days.  I'm quite sure ...windows.x86_32.exe 
isn't going to cut it for most visitors, especially the naïve ones who 
are most likely to use the latest version link.

If there is no way to make latest version point to the '4.2.0' 
parent folder, then replace it with the string It depends... or 
eliminate it altogether.  Won't most folks assume that the parent 
directory with the highest numerical value is the latest version?

Sourceforge is heavily mirrored, so I don't think replacing the 
individual download files on ooRexx with a Sourceforge link is an 
exposure, and it certainly cuts down on the synchronization issues. 
OTOH, having a single link per version is not significantly better 
than a single link to the ooRexx Project, imho.

I think the highest and best use of the ooRexx download page is to 
better organize and explain the confusing (to neophytes) package 
naming conventions: I'm running Ubuntu.  Which of the eight files do 
I want? or especially I'm running Windows7 in 32-bit mode on 64-bit 
hardware...?

The Sourceforge page gives no way to answer such common questions. 
I'd like to see a more hierarchical table, with elaborations of the 
various distinctions between the downloadable files, culminating in a 
single link to the Sourceforge package.

Something like:

Ubuntu 13.30
   32-bit Intel
 http://sourceforge.net/ooRexx__.i386.deb
   64-bit Intel
 http://sourceforge.net/ooRexx__.x86_64.deb

Ubuntu 12.04 Long Term Support
   32-bit Intel
 http://sourceforge.net/ooRexx__.i386.deb
   64-bit Intel
 http://sourceforge.net/ooRexx__.x86_64.deb

SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11.10
   32-bit Intel
 http://sourceforge.net/ooRexx__.i586.rpm
   64-bit Intel
 http://sourceforge.net/ooRexx__.x86_64.rpm
   s390 IBM
 http://sourceforge.net/ooRexx__.s390.rpm

this would provide a welcome value add to the ooRexx site, I think.

-Chip-

On 3/11/2014 11:37 AM David Ashley said:
 All -

 The download page on the main ooRexx web site is getting a little too
 crowded with the old releases. I was about to update it with the new
 4.2.0 release when I changed my mind and decided it was time to do
 something else with this page.

 First, I have some observations.

 1. Listing the individual files for download is error prone at best. A
 simple typo can make the link useless.
 2. Listing details for the old releases is not very useful. Usually
 people want the latest version.

 So I suggest we only list each version as a link to the SourceForge
 repository (there would be a different link for each version). That way
 the SF repository becomes the only real place from which to download
 files and we do not have to maintain two places that list the files for
 download.

 Opinions/suggestions?

 David Ashley


 --
 Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
 Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
 applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
 this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



--
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Debug downloads

[Chip Davis]

How does this utility NOT go by the name Windbag?  ;-)

That's nearly as bad as the z/VM TCP/IP installation wizard that was 
pushed back a release because the developers named it IPWIZ.

-Chip-

On 2/20/2014 12:25 PM Mike Cowlishaw said:
 __
 I'm curious Mike, do you have a VC++ debugger installed, and if so is
 it the Express version?

 The debugger I start on boot is started via the command:
'windbg -IS'
 which I think is from VC [++?] and yes I think the Express
 version, but quite an old one.


 windbg used to be distributed in the device driver kit and is
 different than the VC++ debugger.  It is supposed to be more
 powerful, but I don't know if it has just in time debugging, if it
 breaks in automatically when a crash happens on the system.
 Hmm, yes, on a bit of googling, looks like it's part of the
 Windows SDK.   Still, anyone writing apps for Windows would
 install that.
 Looking up some details on windbg, reminded me that the debug
 build may not be helpful without the .pdb files that are produced
 during the compile?
 No idea.  I guess I'll install (and lastest SDK/windbg) and wait
 for something to happen.   Of course, nothing will, now  :-)
 Mike

--
Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications
Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls.
Read the Whitepaper.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx Web Sites

[Chip Davis]

Wow!

Wish I had known about this tool long ago.  Super easy to install and 
use :-) and embarrassing to read the reports on one's sites :-/

Thanks Mike!

-Chip-

On 1/10/2014 10:55 Mike Cowlishaw said:
 Gentlemen ... I recommend Xenu (free software) to you -- it will check
 all of the links on a website and report broken/bad/other problems to
 you in a single report.   I use it on my site every few months or so.

--
CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
Critical Workloads, Development Environments  Everything In Between.
Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. 
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] HowTo Articles

[Chip Davis]

Very nice, David!  And very useful.

Aside from a couple of typos, the only thing I would change is to move 
the Legal Notice to the last page; it was hard to find the start of 
your text.

-Chip-

On 1/3/2014 17:40 David Ashley said:
 All -

 One of the things I have been asked about multiple times is a way to
 host articles and possibly blogs on one of the ooRexx servers. Well I
 decided to at least provide some article support. So I wrote my first
 Howto article and put it up on the Build Machine. You can get to the
 article using the URL:

 http://build.oorexx.org/howto/MimeTypesAndEmail/

 The article was created using a mostly standard Publican article DTD. It
 looks pretty good and was pretty easy to create (I wrote this one over a
 two day part time period).

 Please note that there is no external hypertext link to this article
 anywhere yet except in this email. So if we decide not to host these
 things this way nothing will need to be changed. If we decide to go
 ahead I will add a hypertext link on the web site pages.

 Of course, I would encourage everyone to think about articles they want
 see or create themselves.

 Oh, and let me know what you think about the article itself.

 David Ashley


 --
 Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
 organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
 affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
 Java,.NET,  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


--
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
Java,.NET,  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Windows installer: Finish page

[Chip Davis]

True, but I'd think that non-newbies (which should be larger 
population, one hopes) would find it quite helpful.

-Chip-

On 12/17/2013 11:54 Walter Pachl said:
 Can we see a draft?

 I doubt that readme (showing mosty changes) is useful to a newbie

 Walter

 *Von:*Mike Cowlishaw [mailto:m...@speleotrove.com]
 *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 17. Dezember 2013 17:44
 *An:* 'Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List'
 *Betreff:* Re: [Oorexx-devel] Windows installer: Finish page

 I'm attaching snapshot of the Finish page.  Not sure if it will be
 stripped or not.

 Looks excellent!

 Rick's suggestion of readme rather than licence is good (assuming the
 readme is useful/up to date -- I haven't looked at it for a while).

 Mike



 --
 Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
 organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
 affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
 Java,.NET,  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk



 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


--
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
Java,.NET,  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Bug or Not?

[Chip Davis]

If you are referring to 'umask u-x,g=x,o+w', this removes execute 
permission for the owner ('user'), adds write permission for 'others' 
and sets the group permissions to be only the execute permission, 
removing any others.  IOW, the executable bit is set for the group and 
all other group permissions are reset.

-Chip-

On 12/15/2013 09:50 Uli Zinngrebe said:
 On Saturday 14 Dec 2013 18:12:11 Rick McGuire wrote:
 Ok, the fix has been committed to both trunk and branch.  Someone needs to
 check this out on a non-Windows system.


 File permissions now adapt to umask settings.
 In the second example I'm not sure whether umask means
 - that the executable bit for group may  be set or
 - that the executable bit for group must be set.

 Cheers, Uli


 uli@ulmo:~ rpm -q ooRexx
 ooRexx-4.2.0-9713.opensuse1220.x86_64

 uli@ulmo:~ uname -a
 Linux ulmo 3.4.11-5-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Sep 24 21:27:36 UTC 2012
 (ca8d6ae) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


 uli@ulmo:~ rexx -e  'umask';call lineout file, test;'ls -l' file
 0022
 -rw-r--r-- 1 uli users 5 Dec 15 15:30 FILE


 uli@ulmo:~ rm FILE
 uli@ulmo:~ umask u-x,g=x,o+w
 uli@ulmo:~ rexx -e  'umask';call lineout file, test;'ls -l' file
 0160
 -rwrw- 1 uli users 0 Dec 15 15:45 FILE


 --
 Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
 organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
 affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
 Java,.NET,  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


--
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
Java,.NET,  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] collclasses.xml Now Ready for Checking

[Chip Davis]

Re: future update and correctness -

Could the production of the diagram be automated?

Isn't the information in the class diagram available by inspection 
methods?  If not, the meta-question is Shouldn't they be?

-Chip-

On 12/12/2013 06:51 Rick McGuire said:

 Still have to go and make a detailed check that everything is
 correct, but my first impressions are this is really great! We
 might want to consider expanding this even further by making the
 class names and the method names xrefs using the technique we're
 using for the inherited method tables.  We might want to convert
 those tables to the same format as well...but I suspect that's an
 exercise for a future update.

 On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 6:23 PM, David Ashley wrote:

 I finished replacing the class diagrams in collclasses.xml. Rexxref
 now builds correctly. A new rexxref will be ready in the morning.

 Please let me know if the new table format is acceptable.

--
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
Java,.NET,  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] On the topic of enchaining SysFileTree...

[Chip Davis]

On 8/28/2012 08:46 Rony G. Flatscher said:
 On 28.08.2012 13:02, Michael Lueck wrote:
 Chip Davis wrote:
 SysFileTree() otoh, was never intended for interactive use and is more
 accurately regarded as a application interface to the file system.
 snip

 IMHO, of course.
 So was that a +1 for my RFE?
 Hmm, only after reading this did I conclude that I could do a +1 on your RFE 
 right there at:
 https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/feature-requests/482/.

 Just did that and saw that you yourself had not done that vote up.

I had not bumped the RFE because I wanted to initiate a discussion 
about the implementation of it, first.  Specifically, Michael 
suggested a flag to indicate that every file should be returned.

My point was that return every file should be the default behavior, 
and that the interface could use flags, RE's, wildcards, arguments, or 
whatever, to indicate something less than every file was desired.

I know the backwards compatibility argument will be raised, but the 
current behavior is not consistent across all filesystems now.  The 
only reasonable default behavior is for SysFileTree() to return all 
the files it can see on whatever filesystem it is scanning.

I have now bumped this RFE, primarily to encourage someone to look at 
the issue.  I would prefer that the solution suggested by the RFE not 
be the way it is implemented.

-Chip-


--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Ad sorting arrays: request for discussion/thoughts ...

[Chip Davis]

On 8/28/2012 09:38 Rony G. Flatscher said:
 On 28.08.2012 15:22, Mark Miesfeld wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Dan Carter gwcar...@ezlink.com wrote:
 Rony, I just tried to vote, but there was no response when clicking the
 button.  What else must I do to register a vote?
 It worked okay for me.  I voted up and then back to abstain with no
 problem.  It's possible that you need to be logged in to SourceForge
 for your vote to count.
 Mark is probably right, you would need to login to Sourceforge with your 
 Sourceforge account. It
 also seems that the site remembers who voted, such that one is able to remove 
 a vote or change it later.

Indeed, I went to the RFE link and the voting buttons did not work, so 
I logged in and returned to the RFE page where they still did not 
work.  Refreshing the page after logging in to Sourceforge did the trick.

-Chip-


--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] On the topic of enchaining SysFileTree...

[Chip Davis]

On 8/28/2012 14:08 Rony G. Flatscher said:
 On 28.08.2012 19:32, Mark Miesfeld wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Chip Davis c...@aviatrexx.com wrote:
 On 8/28/2012 08:46 Rony G. Flatscher said:
 Just did that and saw that you yourself had not done that vote up.
 I had not bumped the RFE because I wanted to initiate a discussion
 Actually I think Rony meant Michael had not bumped up his own RFE, but
 that's not that relevant.

 about the implementation of it, first.  Specifically, Michael
 suggested a flag to indicate that every file should be returned.

 My point was that return every file should be the default behavior,
 and that the interface could use flags, RE's, wildcards, arguments, or
 whatever, to indicate something less than every file was desired.

 I know the backwards compatibility argument will be raised, but the
 But what about backwards compatibility?

 I agree with you that the reasonable default for the S flags would
 have been all files.  But it wasn't implemented that way on Unix-like
 systems.  It's been that way for a long time, probably forever.  If we
 suddenly changed the behavior, programs like the ones Michael has
 already written and has been using would no longer produce the same
 results.

 Is that okay to do just because the original default wasn't reasonable?

 That's the question I'm interested in.
 This is an interesting question!

 What, if one just regards the current behaviour on Unix systems to be a (long 
 standing) bug, rather
 than a RFE?
 :)

As one who frequently raises the backward-compatibility issue, I fully 
recognize the issue with changing SysFileTree.  That's why I was 
reticent to vote for this RFE.  But it is broken now; fixing it will 
probably require more effort than writing a new routine.

Which means the best solution is a new routine.  Call it SysFileList 
if you will.  I'm with Rony in that all of the various implementations 
of SysFileTree that mimicked the behavior of a particular platform's 
interactive list files command ('ls', 'listfile', 'dir', et al.) 
were doomed to cross-platform failure from the start.

It's time we implemented a truly cross-platform file list utility, 
where the default is to return all files.

IMHO, of course.

-Chip-


--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] On the topic of enchaining SysFileTree...

[Chip Davis]

Historically, commands that listed files, limited the display for one 
reason or another.  LISTFILE in CMS showed only one minidisk at a 
time, 'ls' in Unix (Multics?) omitted 'dot-files', TSO limited you to 
the low-level qualifier or a single PDS.  The main reason was to save 
console printer/display real estate, which was at a premium for 
interactive use.

SysFileTree() otoh, was never intended for interactive use and is more 
accurately regarded as a application interface to the file system.  
 From that standpoint, SysFileTree() should, by default, return ALL 
files.  Wildcards (RE's) and arguments may be provided to limit the 
information returned, but the basic behavior should be to return 
everything.  Especially now that memory is cheap and I/O is not.

IMHO, of course.

-Chip-

On 8/27/2012 22:06 Michael Lueck said:
 Mark Miesfeld wrote:
 Opening up a RFE is the only way to get that enhancement.  But,
 opening up a RFE is not guaranteed to get it.
 I took that as a hint that a prior RFE was not on file.

 I had to hunt around for the developer links to the SF site. Finally found 
 a static link to the RFE tracker at the ooRexx site. ( 
 http://www.oorexx.org/support/ ) Through the many SF redesigns, most
 all of the useful links have been lost at the main link ( 
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/ ):

 My RFE as follows:
 https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/feature-requests/482/

 Sincerely,



--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Thinking about a next release ...

[Chip Davis]

It depends, Mark.

Does the new ooDialog have any backward compatibility issues?  Will 
anyone have to touch any of their existing ooDialog routines just 
because they need a particular bugfix in ooRexx?

If so, option 3 is preferable.  Keep them separate, so a user can get 
the latest bugfixes without having to commit also to changing their 
ooDialog stuff.

If not, option 1 is preferable because it provides a tangible and 
attractive hook to draw attention to the latest ooRexx release.

I would leave the XML update for a later release.  It's always nice to 
have some sort of tantalizing new functionality to point to, rather 
than just a bugfix release.

IMHO, of course,

-Chip-

On 7/10/2012 3:50 PM Mark Miesfeld said:
 Hi All,

 Thinking ahead to the next release ...

 I've finally finished up with everything I wanted for ooDialog, so it
 is ready to go into a regular beta / release cycle.  In addition, Rick
 has done a lot with XML.  I think those 2 extensions would make a good
 base for a next release.

From watching the svn notices, I see a lot done with XMl, but I don't
 have any sense of how much work still needs to be done there.

 Coupled with this are two other things I'd like to do.  1.) I'd like
 to not go so long between releases, especially when we have some fixed
 bugs.  2.) I'd like to do releases of some of the extensions
 independent of the interpreter releases.

 So, I thought maybe we could kick it around a little and see what
 makes sense to do going forward.  I see 3 possibilities for the
 ooDialog release I want to do:

 1.) Put the current ooDialog stuff that is ready in the 4.1 fixes
 branch.  Do a bug fix + ooDialog release with a beta starting in
 August.

 2.) Do a release with ooDialog and XML as major enhancements.  Start a
 beta around August if that's practical with the XML stuff.

 3.) I can do an ooDialog only beta / release independent of the
 interpreter.  ooDialog would have an installer that drops it into any
 4.1.0 ooRexx installation.

 Liked to hear what people think.

 --
 Mark Miesfeld

 --
 Live Security Virtual Conference
 Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
 threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
 will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
 threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel



--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] ANSI Rexx API

[Chip Davis]

On 6/11/2012 10:06 PM Michael Lueck said:
 David Ashley wrote:
 The real problem here is that no one has stood up and cried foul
 and even if they did there is no active Rexx community who
 would/could create/approve a new standard.

 Comes to mind one person who presented at RexxLA 10'ish years ago
 had their own implementation of Rexx that was floating point
 arthritic orientated instead of mfc's Base 10 arthritic standard...

Gotta love that damned auto-correct... ;-)

-Chip-

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Some basic problem with the command linearguments

[Chip Davis]

On 3/17/12 17:44 Mike Cowlishaw said:
  On 3/17/12 15:58 Rick McGuire said:
 Rexxpaws and rexxhide are probably going to nerd the same
 correction.
  
 'nerd' the same correction?  :-))) 

Looks like a Freudian slip-of-the-thumb... :-)

-Chip-

--
This SF email is sponsosred by:
Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Is it possible to customize the main sourceforge project page?

[Chip Davis]

Not that we haven't all seen websites of such poor design that a 3270 
green-screen wouldn't be more readable or useful... :-/

-Chip-

On 3/13/12 14:07 Mike Cowlishaw said:
Maybe we could get Les to do it?  ;-) 
  
 Hmm, I foresee a webpage with five 4-word lines of (3270 font) 
 characters  :-)
  
 Come to think of it, I think I have authentic bitmaps for 3270 fonts 


--
Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Need for root perms for ooRexx 4.x Linux

[Chip Davis]

On 2/13/12 13:05 rvjansen said:
 I am also an interested party, 
 as I, again, am at a client site where I am -kind of- server admin but 
 not root - and the demo/usb install mode would be an asset for ooRexx 
 anyway.

Please add me as another Interested Party.  I have three shared 
servers running Linux 2.6.18-274.17.1.el5PAE that I would like to 
Rexx-enable.

-Chip-

--
Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Change ooRexx License

[Chip Davis]

David, it's been over an hour and I haven't seen anything on the Board 
list.  Can you verify that your post went through?

-Chip-

On 1/30/12 22:29 David Ashley said:
 I sent a separate not to the RexxLA Board with the same content as below.


--
Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooDialog - Drag-Drop - How should it look?

[Chip Davis]

I have to agree with Mark, Oliver.  The cursor should indicate what 
will happen if I release the mouse button.  It would very unfriendly 
to let nothing happen.  That eliminates options A  C.

That was not the way it was done in OS/2, iirc.  Perhaps it was true 
within the Workplace Shell, but that might have been because you could 
drag anything anywhere.  I don't think that was the rule for general 
CUA applications.

BTW, just for completeness, the cursor should not change on button 
down.  It should take button down plus dragging outside of the local 
box, right?

One metric I use is the How easy is this behavior to explain to my 84 
year old mother?  :-)

-Chip-

On 1/10/12 00:39 Mark Miesfeld said:
 I'm not sure I see what the differences in the 3 approaches are.
  
 In all three, if, when you press the mouse button down, the thing below 
 is not 'draggable', then nothing happens.
  
 When you are dragging something, the recommended approach is to indicate 
 to the user that the dragged item either can be dropped and something 
 will happen, or it can not be dropped and if dropped nothing will 
 happen.  If the user drops the item when it is indicated that it can be 
 dropped and nothing happens - then that would seem to be a bug in the 
 program.
  
 Anyhow, in ooDialog you are going to be limited to what you can produce 
 as a cursor.  If you can produce a cursor that looks like the thing you 
 are dragging, then you can use that.  If you can produce a cursor that 
 looks like the thing being dragged with a No symbol over-laid on the 
 picture you can use that.
  
 In most places where you see a picture of the item being dragged, and 
 always if the picture is bigger than a cursor, the drag and drop is 
 being implemented through COM, or the application is painting the 
 picture while the dragging is being done over its client window.  
 Painting images in ooDialog is next to impossible.  Which is why you are 
 going to be limited to using cursors.
  
 --
 Mark Miesfeld
 
 On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Oliver Sims 
 oliver.s...@simsassociates.co.uk 
 mailto:oliver.s...@simsassociates.co.uk wrote:
 
 __
 If I build some sort of drag/drop framework for the Guide, then I
 need to define how drag/drop should *look*.
 I've been experimenting with my Windows system, dragging stuff
 around and seeing what happens to the mouse cursor.
 There seem to be three broad options:
  
 Approach A (Windows XP Native Drag/Drop)
 - On pickup (button1 down), either nothing happens or the mouse
 cursor changes to a little picture of the thing picked up.
 - When it's dragged over other programs (or the screen background)
 either the cursor does not change, or it changes to a no-entry sign.
 - If I drop when the mouse is a little picture, then either (a)
 nothing happens, or (b) the target says it can't handle it, or (c)
 it accepts the drop and something changes on the target window.
 - If I drop when the cursor is a no-entry, then nothing happens.
  
 Approach B (see sample ooDialog drag/drop program userDlg.rex)
 - On pickup, the mouse cursor changes to a no-entry sign. 
 - When it's dragged over other programs (or the screen background)
 the cursor stays as a no-entry sign, but if it's dragged over an
 ooDialog dialog that will accept a drop, then the cursor changes to
 a little picture.
 - If I drop when the cursor is a little picture, something happens
 (assuming the ooDialog code is well-mannered).
 - If I drop when the cursor is a no-entry, then nothing happens.
  
 Approach C (a possible alternative approach with ooDialog):
 - On pickup, the mouse cursor changes to a little picture of the
 thing picked up.
 - When dragged over any non-ooDialog window, the cursor remains as a
 little window, but if it's dragged over an ooDialog dialog that will
 NOT accept a drop, then the cursor changes to a no-entry sign.
 -  If I drop when the cursor is a little picture, then if the target
 is an ooDialog dialog that will accept a drop then something
 happens. Otherwise nothing happens.
 - If I drop when the cursor is a no-entry, then nothing happens.
  
  
 Which of these options should be used (for the Guide at least)? My
 own preference is, I think, Approach B.
  
 Any thoughts? I did check my dusty 20-year-old CUA manuals, and
 while it seems to suggest approach C, I know that the context of was
 the OS2 desktop (as opposed to use by applications). So not a lot of
 help there...
  
 Thanks for any thoughts,
 Oliver
 
 
 --
 Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a
 complex
 infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure
 access to
 virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily 

Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooDialog - just a thought about mouse buttons

[Chip Davis]

I'm SO glad you mentioned that, Oliver!  That was my first thought 
when I saw WM_LBUTTONDOWN.  I guess Microsoft didn't learn much from 
their exposure to CUA in OS/2... ;-)

Besides, consensus standards are _so_ last century.

-Chip-

On 1/5/12 21:50 Oliver Sims said:
 Back in CUA days, there was a move to call the left mouse button Button 1
 instead of Left Button on the grounds that for left-handed people it was
 not a left button but a right one. I suppose that particular battle was lost
 a long time ago, but if not, would it be a good idea in ooDialog to use the
 CUA standard?


--
Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex
infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to
virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual 
desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure 
costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] [ oorexx-Bugs-3429383 ] Locating External Files inconsistency

[Chip Davis]

Yes, but that was simply a bug report against 4.0.1 that was applied 
to 4.1.0.  I found what looks like the original RFE to change the 
behavior of 3.2.0 to always look in the caller's directory first.

RFE136 seems to be the point at which ooRexx 'Call' routine lookup 
diverges from IBM Object REXX, and Classic Rexx for that matter.

THAT is where the the trail ends.  I can find no reference to that RFE 
in any of the Tracker or Forums files.  It shows up in five postings 
to the Oorexx-svn mailing list.  Those postings are nothing but SVN 
update logs which include the line:

  +  * 136 - Add source of caller to function search order.

The earliest mention of 136 is as an RFE update 4087 to 3.2.0 on 
2009-02-06 03:11:42 + (Fri, 06 Feb 2009).

I can find no information on who submitted the RFE, the rationale 
behind it, or any discussion of its merits, necessity, unintended 
consequences, or anything else.  I have not gone so far as to checkout 
the 3.2.0 source to see if there is any commentary in the code, and 
frankly that shouldn't be necessary.

-Chip-

On 10/31/11 13:31 Uli Zinngrebe said:
 On Sunday 30 Oct 2011 05:54:21 Mark Miesfeld wrote:
 On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Mark Miesfeld miesf...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Chip Davis c...@aviatrexx.com wrote:


 It's doubtful to me that the behavior changed between 4.0.1 and 4.1.0.
 But, he did attach a test program, so I'll give it a try.
 Well, that was a surprise, the behavior did change between 4.0.1 and
 4.1.0.  I got this result under 4.0.1:

 
 Are you aware of bug ID 2978925 ? 
 (External search path: skips same takes current directory) 
 
 Cheers, Uli
 
 --
 Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook 
 in minutes. BlackBerry App World#153; now supports Android#153; Apps 
 for the BlackBerryreg; PlayBook#153;. Discover just how easy and simple 
 it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 

--
Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook 
in minutes. BlackBerry App World#153; now supports Android#153; Apps 
for the BlackBerryreg; PlayBook#153;. Discover just how easy and simple 
it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] [ oorexx-Bugs-3429383 ] Locating External Files inconsistency

[Chip Davis]

I'm not going to weigh in on whether the current search algorithm is 
the correct one.

Yes, 4.2.0 is (now) working as it is documented, after two attempts to 
get there, apparently.

However, the documentation itself has been changed from the IBM Object 
REXX implementation and there seems to be no record of that being 
discussed or documented.

If someone replaces your Facebook photo with one of Brad Pitt, you 
might prefer the new one, but I want to know who did it and how they 
got away with it.

-Chip-

On 10/31/11 18:14 CVBruce said:
 I just want to add that when I tested the sample program, I got different 
 results than the author of the bug.  Consider that on Linux/Unix/MacOS that 
 the current directory is not automatically searched, unless it is in the 
 environment PATH variable.  Perhaps people that are used to Windows add the 
 current directory to PATH, but people that grew up on UNIX have been 
 trained not to do that for security reasons.
 
 In the sample program there are four calls to HEY.  My results under ooRexx 
 4.0.1 were:
 Hello!
 Hello!
 ERROR HEY not found
 ERROR HEY not found
 This was due to direcories 'a' and 'b' not being in my PATH.
 
 While my results under ooRexx 4.2.0 were:
 Hello!
 Hello!
 Hello!
 Hello!
 
 My personal opinion is that ooRexx 4.2.0 is working as the documentation 
 indicates it should work.  Also, I think that the way it is documented to 
 work is the way I would like it to work, if I had a choice.
 
 The next question is, is there a workaround for the person who entered the 
 bug report.  Could the person alter the PATH in the environment to attain the 
 desired results?
 
 Bruce
 On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Chip Davis wrote:
 
 Yes, but that was simply a bug report against 4.0.1 that was applied 
 to 4.1.0.  I found what looks like the original RFE to change the 
 behavior of 3.2.0 to always look in the caller's directory first.

 RFE136 seems to be the point at which ooRexx 'Call' routine lookup 
 diverges from IBM Object REXX, and Classic Rexx for that matter.

 THAT is where the the trail ends.  I can find no reference to that RFE 
 in any of the Tracker or Forums files.  It shows up in five postings 
 to the Oorexx-svn mailing list.  Those postings are nothing but SVN 
 update logs which include the line:

  +  * 136 - Add source of caller to function search order.

 The earliest mention of 136 is as an RFE update 4087 to 3.2.0 on 
 2009-02-06 03:11:42 + (Fri, 06 Feb 2009).

 I can find no information on who submitted the RFE, the rationale 
 behind it, or any discussion of its merits, necessity, unintended 
 consequences, or anything else.  I have not gone so far as to checkout 
 the 3.2.0 source to see if there is any commentary in the code, and 
 frankly that shouldn't be necessary.

 -Chip-

 On 10/31/11 13:31 Uli Zinngrebe said:
 On Sunday 30 Oct 2011 05:54:21 Mark Miesfeld wrote:
 On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Mark Miesfeld miesf...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Chip Davis c...@aviatrexx.com wrote:


 It's doubtful to me that the behavior changed between 4.0.1 and 4.1.0.
 But, he did attach a test program, so I'll give it a try.
 Well, that was a surprise, the behavior did change between 4.0.1 and
 4.1.0.  I got this result under 4.0.1:

 Are you aware of bug ID 2978925 ? 
 (External search path: skips same takes current directory) 

 Cheers, Uli

 --
 Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook 
 in minutes. BlackBerry App World#153; now supports Android#153; Apps 
 for the BlackBerryreg; PlayBook#153;. Discover just how easy and simple 
 it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

 --
 Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook 
 in minutes. BlackBerry App World#153; now supports Android#153; Apps 
 for the BlackBerryreg; PlayBook#153;. Discover just how easy and simple 
 it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 
 
 --
 Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook 
 in minutes. BlackBerry App World#153; now supports Android#153; Apps 
 for the BlackBerryreg; PlayBook#153;. Discover just how easy and simple 
 it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] [ oorexx-Bugs-3429383 ] Locating External Files inconsistency

[Chip Davis]

On 10/31/11 20:44 Mark Miesfeld said:
 Earlier Chip wrote:
  
 There was indeed a change to the 'Call' search order between 3.2.0 and
 4.0.0.  I was able to track it as far back as an SVN update on 6Feb09
 to the main/trunk/CHANGES document.  It listed the RFE 136 - Add
 source of caller to function search order but that was the end of the
 trail.  I can find no documentation for 136 anywhere.
  
 If you look up the 136 item in the Request for Enhancement tracker 
 you can see that Rick opened it and stated the rational for it.  He 
 opened it in February of 2007 and implemented it in August 2008.

My entire participation in this discussion started with not being able 
to find any reference to RFE-166636.  My mistake was thinking that one 
could search on the Artifact ID.  Once I figured out how to find the 
RFE item however, there still wasn't much there.

 That gave anyone, that wanted to make the effort, the opportunity to 
 discuss it for about a year and a half.

That's a little disingenuous, Mark.  Most of us don't have the time to 
follow every little issue that comes up.  That's the responsibility of 
an Architecture Review Board, or absent that, a vibrant community of 
developers.  Absent both of them, shit happens.

 You can see that Rony was in 
 favor of it, he just was curious as to where it would be put in the 
 search order.  I could have objected to it, but I didn't.

Indeed.  One question (that was never answered) is hardly what I would 
call a sufficient review of a proposal that changes the behavior of 
the language processor in a non-backwards-compatible way.

 Anyone can subscribe to the SVN, Bug, RFE, and similar lists and track 
 every single thing the developers are doing.  Anyone can subscribe to 
 the developers list and discuss these things as they are done / as they 
 appear.

And I have been, since Mar07.  Unfortunately, this all happened in 
Feb07 and the only other reference to the issue was when you closed a 
whole slew of items en masse.  Yeah, I looked at a few of them and 
then mass-filed the rest.  Not that it would have mattered; it was 
already released by that point (Sep10).

 Anyone could have spoke up when Rick committed the implementation.  The 
 final release wasn't done until around August 2009, which gave anyone 
 about a year to object to the change.  Anything committed can be easily 
 rolled back.
 
 So, no one spoke up, no one objected, the change was finalized by the 
 release of 4.0.0.

Translating to Vogon:

There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning 
charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local 
planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so 
you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far 
too late to start making a fuss about it now. … What do you mean 
you’ve never been to Alpha Centauri? Oh, for heaven’s sake, mankind, 
it’s only four light years away, you know. I’m sorry, but if you can’t 
be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own 
lookout. Energize the demolition beams.

 I don't see how the lack of a prior design document should keep us
 from discussing how this particular bug request should be handled.
  
 Exactly.  We should discuss how the bug report should be handled.  
 Especially since it's not real clear if it is or is not a bug.

No need.  Once RFE-136 was implemented, and the documentation 
updated to reflect it, Uli's BUG-2978925 was valid in that the 
behavior didn't match the updated documentation for some reason.

Now that it does, Jerry's BUG-3429383 _must_ be closed as WAD.  The 
fact that his working program is behaving differently between 3.2.0 
and 4.1.0 is his own fault for not subscribing to (and assiduously 
following) Oorexx-rfes.

 I would vote that this isn't a bug, but working as documented.  I
 would offer to change this bug into an enhancement request.

Dishancement request?

 Although we have two changes here.  The implementation of RFE 136 
 and the fix of Bug 2978925.  The fix for bug 2978925 definitely changed 
 the behaviour from 4.0.1 to 4.1.0.  I haven't had the time to check 
 behavior between 3.2.0 and 4.0.0.  And I haven't given the exact details 
 here a lot of deep thought.  So, it's not entirely clear where we are at 
 here.

Fair enough.  I wasn't either until I did a lot of digging.

 Did the implementation of RFE 136 change existing, *documented* 
 behavior?

Yes.

 Was the implementation of RFE 136 not completely correct so it 
 needed the 2978925 bug fix to match the documentation?

Apparently.

 Or did the implementation of RFE 136 have an unintended consequence 
 that introduced bug 2978925?

It doesn't look like it, but who knows?  The issue was that it wasn't 
working as (newly) documented on Linux.

 ...  And besides, if you put Brad Pitt's photo on my Facebook page,
 no one would notice the difference, since I'm mistaken for him quite
   

Re: [Oorexx-devel] [ oorexx-Bugs-3429383 ] Locating External Files inconsistency

[Chip Davis]

Thanks for the pointer to the tracker attachment, Bruce.  (And I 
really appreciate your including it in your reply so I didn't have to 
go looking for it!)

That makes it clear that the submitter was not conflating the ooRexx 
'Call' search order with the command invocation search order.

There was indeed a change to the 'Call' search order between 3.2.0 and 
4.0.0.  I was able to track it as far back as an SVN update on 6Feb09 
to the main/trunk/CHANGES document.  It listed the RFE 136 - Add 
source of caller to function search order but that was the end of the 
trail.  I can find no documentation for 136 anywhere.

-Chip-

On 10/30/11 01:46 CVBruce said:
 On the other hand, I did check the ooRexx 3.1.0 documentation, and it doesn't 
 mention checking the execution directory at all, so this is a change.

--
Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook 
in minutes. BlackBerry App World#153; now supports Android#153; Apps 
for the BlackBerryreg; PlayBook#153;. Discover just how easy and simple 
it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

[Oorexx-devel] [ oorexx-Bugs-3429383 ] Locating External Files inconsistency

[Chip Davis]

I don't understand this.  Has the submitter misunderstood that the 
search order for subroutines/functions is not necessarily the same as 
that for commands?

The former is documented in Sect.7.2.1.1 and seems to be nearly 
identical to the way it's described in my OS/2 REXX Reference (with 
the substitution of directory of invoking program for function 
package.

The latter has always been under control of the addressed environment. 
  There's never been any way that the Rexx processor could (or should, 
imo) control that.

What I don't understand (partially because I can't see his test code) 
is how he got different results prior to 4.1.0.

What am I missing?

-Chip-

On 10/27/11 17:23 SourceForge.net said:
 Bugs item #3429383, was opened at 2011-10-27 13:23
 
 Initial Comment:
 In Version 4.1.0, it appears that the search order as defined in the Rexx 
 Reference Manual Section 7.2.1.1 Locating External Files,page 376, was 
 partially implemented. In previous versions of rexx, all the way down to 
 PC-DOS Rexx, the search order began in the current directory. Now CALL 
 works as defined in list item 1. The search for a direct invocation of the 
 external .rex program still begins in the current directory. If there are 2 
 .rex programs with the same name in 2 different directories a CALL to the 
 .rex program invokes the rexx program that was in the directory that the 
 calling program called it. Even if I change directories, I still get the 
 version of the program from the original directory. On the other hand if I do 
 a direct invocation of the program I get the version of the program for the 
 current directory. There are side effects of this. Doing a CALL invokes the 
 program as a SUBROUTINE and a direct invocation causes the program to be 
 treated as a COMM
AND. I have several programs that function differently based on how they were 
invoked.
 
 I've included a sample to show the difference. Here is the console output:
 [C:\]\a\test
 Hello!!!
 Hello!!!  - This used to be Hi!!! prior to 4.1.0
 Hello!!!
 Hi!!!
 
 [C:\]
 
 If I had my druthers I would prefer to have the search the way it was prior 
 to 4.1.0. That way, all I have to do is change directories to the version I 
 want. This was a great development tool. I didn't have to modify the original 
 code to begin development on a new level of the program.
 
 Also, in Section 7.2.1.1 there appears to be a couple of document problems 
 that I picked up on:
 
 The second and third list items are the same.
 
 The paragraph below the first group of list items, beginning with the The 
 second element..., second sentence, has 2 contains in a row.
 
 Operating environment is Windows XP Professional, SP1 32bit w/ ooRexx 4.1.0
 
 --


--
Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook 
in minutes. BlackBerry App World#153; now supports Android#153; Apps 
for the BlackBerryreg; PlayBook#153;. Discover just how easy and simple 
it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

[Oorexx-devel] Update on Lee Peedin

[Chip Davis]

I just got an update on Pragmatic Lee's condition this morning: he is
still in the hospital recovering from open-heart surgery to bypass
five arteries but he is steadily improving.  He still had a slight
fever last night so they are going to keep him a little longer before
sending him home.

I suspect that he is suffering as much from the withholding of his
laptop (and cigarettes) as from the surgery. ;-)  Now, I'm not up on
current cardiac post-op protocols, but I would think he'll get his
laptop back before the cigarettes.

And I'm sure he will appreciate a cheery note from his friends and
colleagues when he can get back online at l...@safedatausa.com and
lpee...@nc.rr.com sometime next week.  It may be a while before he can
resume his competitive archery, however.

-Chip-




--
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a 
Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your 
business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx as portable App

[Chip Davis]

Thanks, Mark.  That's what I was looking for.

There are many times that I am working on a student/client computer 
and really wish I had Rexx available, but am not allowed to install 
anything.  Now I can keep all my Rexx tools on a stick with the 
interpreter and run from that.

-Chip-

On 8/25/10 04:31 Mark Miesfeld said:
 On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Chip Davis c...@aviatrexx.com wrote:
 
 As an alternative, would it be possible to simply copy all of the
 files in the installed ooRexx directory structure to the USB memory
 stick, plug it into a non-ooRexx computer, update the PATH to include
 the memory stick, and run from the stick?
 
 Chip,
 
 Yes that should work just the same.  If you used it on the same
 computer, where the USB stick always came up with the same drive
 letter you could write a simple batch file to set the path.  Or have
 the drive letter be input to the batch file.  Or copy a simple Rexx
 program to the root ooRexx directory and be a little creative with the
 setup.  You could have the Rexx program figure out what the path
 should be, then write it out to a batch file and invoke it.  You just
 need to cd into the ooRexx root directory to invoke the Rexx program
 from the command line.
 
 Using a USB stick was really what I had in mind, it was just simpler
 to do  a quick demo with a zip file.
 
 --
 Mark Miesfeld
 
 --
 Sell apps to millions through the Intel(R) Atom(Tm) Developer Program
 Be part of this innovative community and reach millions of netbook users 
 worldwide. Take advantage of special opportunities to increase revenue and 
 speed time-to-market. Join now, and jumpstart your future.
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-atom-d2d
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 

--
Sell apps to millions through the Intel(R) Atom(Tm) Developer Program
Be part of this innovative community and reach millions of netbook users 
worldwide. Take advantage of special opportunities to increase revenue and 
speed time-to-market. Join now, and jumpstart your future.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-atom-d2d
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Opinions Wanted

[Chip Davis]

That's interesting.  I played around with Forth back in the mid-70's and, while 
I have never been a fan of RPN, I remember being impressed with its flexibility.

What I don't remember is there being any sort of list construct that took an 
index.  None of the stacks did.  Then again, there were a number of variants of 
Forth over the years.  Perhaps mine was a minimal implementation.  Is it 
possible that your Forth had self-created a 0-based list word?

I know exactly where my Forth textbook is on my bookshelves, but they are three 
states away right now, so I'll just have to take your word for it.  Regardless, 
in the pantheon of quirky non-human-oriented programming languages, Forth has 
to 
rank fairly high.  Not bad for an astronomer in the late 50, tho...

-Chip-

On 1/12/10 04:33 Jack Woehr said:
 Chip Davis wrote:
 _Only_C_programmers_ adjust their thinking to start lists with '0'.

   
 Nah, we did that in Forth too.
 

--
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community
Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support
A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy
Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev 
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Opinions Wanted

[Chip Davis]

On 1/11/10 20:29 John Bodoh asked:
  Is a programmer thinking zero based or one base when they are programming
  for REXX?

All _people_ start lists with '1'.

All _programmers_ (before the mid-seventies) started lists with '1'.

_Only_C_programmers_ adjust their thinking to start lists with '0'.

Their bike handlebars were misaligned ten degrees to the left since they got 
it. 
  When they get on a bike with the handlebars aligned with the axis of the 
wheel, they will quickly accommodate because that's what _people_ do.

While there are many issues of program language design that are matters of 
taste, style, peculiar environment, and such, this is one where Ritchie simply 
got it wrong.  He had his reason, but that is exactly one of those cases where 
a 
short-term impediment should not be allowed to drive design.

If a C programmer uses Rexx (in any flavor) he will have to adjust his thinking 
on quotes, strings, operators, and quite a few other matters besides the first 
index of a list.

I, too, agree that Mike has the best approach.  A flag will indicate 0- or 
1-based indices with the latter the default.  You could use the same mechanism 
for other differences such as the treatment of the double-quote if you wish.

-Chip-

--
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community
Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support
A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy
Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev 
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Opinions Wanted

[Chip Davis]

David,

Unlike the respondents so far, I do have a strong opinion (to the surprise of 
no 
one, I'm sure).  My conviction is based on philosophical grounds because all 
the 
other reasons are ephemeral, and you are about to cast something in stone.

If you are creating something to be used by a Rexx programmer, it should adhere 
to the Rexx Philosophy, if at all possible.

The counter-arguments are good ones (or you wouldn't have a dilemma) but none 
of 
them justify abandoning a core principal of the language's design.

Programmers of C (and all its derivatives) are the only people on the face of 
the Earth who see no reason for cardinal numbers to match their ordinals.  Go 
into a fast-food restaurant and ask for a cheeseburger, a fish sandwich, fries, 
and an iced tea.  Then tell them to add bacon to the first item and cancel the 
third.  I doubt you'll be happy with your meal.

Zero-based indices are an impediment to learning programming, a continual 
source 
of errors, and provide no value to the programmer.  The fact that the compiler 
avoids one subtraction operation per index lookup is of no benefit to the 
programmer on whose behalf the tool is being created.

As for the specific questions that have been posed:

  C programmers who
  have programmed to this interface in the past will be more comfortable
  with the zero-based numbering system. But I also want to bring in those
  C and Perl programmers into the Rexx arena and that means having them
  get used to a one-based system.

I fail to see how any human, surrounded by one-based lists in real life, would 
have to get used to a one-based system, unless C and Perl programmers fail to 
fall into that category.  It's a minor conceptual adjustment for them, versus 
the significant cognitive dissonance created by going the other direction.

  Also, all the documentation and examples for the system I am interfacing
  to ooRexx is for C and Perl programmers. Thus all those docs and
  examples are zero-based meaning that translating the examples to Rexx
  involves some updating of the source program number constants.

This is a situation that could easily change.  We have 'way too many examples 
of 
design constraints that were implemented due to temporary resource limitations 
that continue to constrain long after the limitations are lifted.  Yes, it will 
take effort to correct the documentation for the Rexx implementation, but 
that 
is just a SMoEditing.  The delta effort to change to one-based indices will 
probably be lost in the larger documentation effort anyway.  At some point, the 
C/Perl programmers will still have their docs, the Rexx programmers will have 
theirs.

The same thing applies to ooDialog, indeed the poster child for the way NOT to 
implement a C-based package in the Rexx environment.  Again, such a fundamental 
design decision should not be based to the current (and mutable) condition of 
the documentation.  At some point, there will be ample and sufficient ooDialog 
documentation for ooRexx.  No doubt it will still differ from the Microsoft 
documentation in many ways other than the base of indices.  The situation will 
be no different from converting OLE recorder generated VB code to the 
equivalent 
ooRexx.

The other pro is that now ooDialog will do exactly what the human programmer 
expects.  Special cases such as the meaning of a -1 index are already 
inconsistent and will need to be addressed and documented as the special cases 
they are.  That is not a reason to abandon the sensibility of using human 
indices.

You'll notice that I've consistently referred to Rexx, not ooRexx.  It is 
important that there not be an ooRexx philosophy that differs from the Rexx 
Philosophy.  It is that novel approach to program language design that allowed 
Rexx to be so widely accepted and still in use thirty years later.  The further 
ooRexx strays from it, the less it has to offer programmers over other 
(non-human-oriented) programming languages like Perl (which is obviously 
oriented towards non-humans :-) or Python.

Unfortunately, this raises the fundamental question of what does ooRexx offer 
the object-oriented programmer?  It's easy to rattle off the benefits of Rexx, 
just read them from Mike's manifesto from the first chapter of TRL.  Why 
exactly 
would a C(++), Perl, Python, Ruby, or Java programmer be interested in 
yet-another-OO language?  What does ooRexx give you that is compelling?  It 
does 
not appear that simply being object oriented extensions to Rexx has been the 
path to wide acceptance.

Thank you for raising this issue.  We seem to have long ago abandoned the Rexx 
principle of document, discuss, _then_ code.

-Chip-

On 1/9/10 18:24 Mark Miesfeld said:
 On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:43 AM, David Ashley david.ashley@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 I am working on an ooRexx interface to something that is normally
 programmed in C. Of course, C uses zero-based indexes for thing like
 memory, array positions, etc. My code 

Re: [Oorexx-devel] oorexx on z/os?

[Chip Davis]

I was trying to avoid putting the fine point on it, Bruce.

The Stream I/O routines were available as part of the REXX compiler runtime 
library, for which you needed a license.  The inclusion of the Stream I/O 
functions into the native TSO/REXX interpreter involved a secret back-door 
download from an IBM FTP (not web) site (subsequently removed).

The installation was far from straight-forward and (AFAICT) never successfully 
accomplished at the system level, where it would have been a locally-supported 
mod at any rate.  Requiring that much effort to include Stream I/O support made 
it far from universally available and thus little-used.

Furthermore, the Stream I/O functions were not part of the SMP/E maintenance 
stream for the TSO/REXX interpreter, and thus prohibited in many shops.

It was, and still is, *NOT* part of the TSO/REXX interpreter and no amount of 
begging, pleading, cajoling, or hounding of TPTB within IBM was ever able to 
convince them that the *interpreter* (which is used far more than the compiler) 
should support native Rexx I/O on z/OS, as it does on all other IBM platforms.

Bottom Line: If no one in RexxLA has the inclination and z/OS expertise/access, 
we'll never see ooRexx ported there.

-Chip-

On 11/19/09 23:43 CVBruce said:
 Not true.  The I/O steam was available as a download for Z/OS, and  it  
 was included in the Rexx/MVS compiler.
 
 Bruce
 On Nov 19, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
 
 Not to put too fine a point on it, but we were never even able to  
 get IBM to
 port Classic Stream I/O to the z/OS.

 -Chip-

 On 11/19/09 20:04 Earl Hodil said:
 Here's a stupid question: Why doesn't IBM do the port?

 Earl

 - Original Message -
 From: Rick McGuire object.r...@gmail.com
 To: Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
 oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [Oorexx-devel] oorexx on z/os?


 Yeah, and a lot of people have been saying that for years, but nobody
 with z/os skills has ever put any real effort into working on a port.
 Without that, it's never going to happen.

 Rick

 On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Earl Hodil
 eho...@mail.open-softech.com wrote:
 My bad. I misinterpreted what I read.

 I still think it would be killer on z/os, though.

 earl

 - Original Message -
 From: Rick McGuire object.r...@gmail.com
 To: Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
 oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:56 PM
 Subject: Re: [Oorexx-devel] oorexx on z/os?


 I'm not aware of anybody getting oorexx to run on z/os. It does run
 on z/linux, but that's a horse of a different color.

 Rick

 On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Earl Hodil
 eho...@mail.open-softech.com wrote:
 Hello everyone,

 I had occasion this past year to convert a classic REXX program  
 that ran
 on
 z/os to an oorexx program that ran on linux for one of my  
 customers. Most
 things converted just fine. The work centered around the I/O  
 interfaces,
 sockets and files. The sockets weren't too bad, but there are some
 differences. The files, though, required a wholesale rewrite.

 Now I have sniffed around the archives enough to know that  
 somebody has
 oorexx up and running on z/os. I suspect that it is entirely a  
 creature
 of
 the unix side of the house. Is there any thought to making oorexx  
 the
 default interpreter on z/os? I know that right now it would break  
 a lot
 of
 programs, and not just because of EXECIO. I have a product,  
 REXXTOOLS/MVS
 that is pretty widespread and would need to be accounted for.

 I just wanted you to know that I stand ready to help in any way  
 that I
 can.

 Sincerely,

 Earl Hodil
 Open Software Technologies
 --
 Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
 2008
 30-Day
 trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
 and
 focus
 on
 what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
 Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


 --
 Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
 30-Day
 trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
 and focus
 on
 what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
 Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


 --
 Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
 30-Day
 trial. Simplify your report design

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Requesting ideas for filename extension ...

[Chip Davis]

Hi Moritz,

Yes, I agree that the concept of encoding file metadata in the filename is an 
unreliable anachronism; it goes 'way back to some of the earliest filesystems.

However, that is the mechanism by which Windows associates icons, which is the 
problem that Rony is trying to solve in as thoughtful a way as possible.  This 
issue, while related, has nothing to do with finding the executable for a data 
file, for which the shebang line is a fairly elegant solution on *nix systems. 
To my knowledge, the magic number line has not been implemented in the Windows 
command processor, so we are stuck with file extensions to make the association 
to executables and icons (and probably a couple of other things).

OS/2 had an elegant file association mechanism that allowed you to assign an 
icon to a file based on its type property, or just by dragging an image to the 
existing icon for the file and dropping it on top of it.  No registry mucking 
was required.

Those were the days... sigh

-Chip-

On 10/12/09 16:34 Moritz Hoffmann said:
 Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
 Hi there,

 in preparation of packaging BSF4Rexx 4.0 for the beta-test I would like
 to take advantage of those new icons that Gray Wilson has kindly created
 for BSF4Rexx and OOo (OpenOffice support via BSF4Rexx). In order to be
 able to utilize these icons, there need to be distinguished filetypes
 with which the icons can get associated.
 
 I would not use file extensions that are longer than 3 characters - it's 
 just not handy when working with it.
 And those working on Unix systems know, that the file extensions have no 
 meaning at all. Sometimes, it is used to determine what application 
 opens a file, but there is no general rule. The association works via 
 the magic files discussed in the other message.
 
 Even for a rexx script running in Java or written for OOo, there are no 
 extensions required. The use of the shebang avoids it generally. That 
 means, that the type of file is obvious from the file itself, and there 
 is no need to rely on (unsafe) information concluded from some extension.
 
 I have not dealt with BSF4Rexx so far, but I guess you have some special 
 command to invoke it. Then, place the command at the script's first line 
 like this:
 
 #!/usr/local/bin/you_interpreter_here
 
 HTH,
 Moritz
 
 --
 Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
 is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
 developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
 ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 

--
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Requesting ideas for filename extension ...

[Chip Davis]

I'm with Klass on this one, Rony.  And you really should avoid case-sensitivity 
as well.

There are only three pieces of information that the extension must convey: 
'Rexx', 'BSF4Rexx(Java)', and 'OpenOffice'.  It's not necessary to specify that 
it is Open Object Rexx, since that's the only Rexx that is applicable.  By 
the same token, BSF4Rexx is a tad more obscure than Java, so Java would 
be 
a more valuable identifier.

One suggestion would be simply '.jro', except that there is too great a 
possibility that it will collide with another extension in the Java namespace. 
In fact, the proliferation of Java application files is making it difficult to 
assign with confidence any extension that starts with '.j'.

Besides, I feel that the beginning of the extension should indicate the source 
language of the file.

For that reason, I would suggest that all BSF4Rexx ooRexx programs use a 
'.rxj*' 
extension.  After all, the whole point is that the code is written in Rexx, not 
Java, for the Java environment.  The 'j' identifies the file as input to the 
BSF4Rexx Java interface, and further suffixes would identify the application 
environment to which the program communicates.

Thus, an ooRexx program that simply interfaces the Java virtual machine would 
have an extension of '.rxj'.  This extension is not likely to be used by 
anything else. (Fortunately, NetRexx uses '.nrx'. ;-)

An ooRexx program that uses the BSF4Rexx Java framework to access OpenOffice 
would have an extension of '.rxjo' (or '.rxjoo' if you're concerned about 
application namespace collisions with only one letter).  One which accesses SQL 
would be '.rxjs', '.rxjsq', or even '.rxjsql'.  The suffix characters are where 
you want to have the ability to disambiguate a multitude of target applications.

Orthographically yours,

-Chip-

On 10/11/09 17:57 Klaas. said:
 Op 10-oct-09 schreef Rony G. Flatscher:
 
 Hi there,
 
 in preparation of packaging BSF4Rexx 4.0 for the beta-test I would like
 to take advantage of those new icons that Gray Wilson has kindly created
 for BSF4Rexx and OOo (OpenOffice support via BSF4Rexx). In order to be
 able to utilize these icons, there need to be distinguished filetypes
 with which the icons can get associated.
 
 For this reason I will rename all BSF4Rexx-Rexx-programs to the file
 extension .jrexx (Java-Rexx), which is the filetype in use on the MacOS.
 
 My problem currently: what filetype should Rexx programs have that are
 written for scripting OpenOffice.org (or StarOffice for that matter)?
 One idea, as this support builds upon BSF4Rexx was .jrexxOOo. But it
 may be the case that this name is too long, too cumbersome, too error
 prone (because of OOo, which is the official acronym for
 OpenOffice.org). So I would request alternative ideas for a filetype
 that denotes Rexx programs that script OOo. Any ideas would be most welcome!
 
 My idea would be to avoid this .jrexxOO..  at all cost.
 Is there a reason to not use the usual .rexx or maybe .jrexx?
 I would say that as long as the OpenOffice macro's etc are
 placed in the correct library where the system could find 
 them everything is fine.
  
 
 
 
 --
 Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
 is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
 developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
 ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 

--
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Groan!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chip Davis]

Not to mention the curious coincidence that 2**128 is a decimal value that 
requires NUMERIC DIGITS 39 to express, which happens to be the answer to the 
Marks Factoid: How many DIGITS would it take to express the circumference of 
the 
known universe in units of the radius of a hydrogen atom?

-Chip-

On 10/8/09 16:18 Rick McGuire said:
 I seriously wasn't expecting to see 128-bit processors in my lifetime
 (or at least before my retirement).  And 256-bit gives you an address
 space in the range of the estimated number of particles in the
 universe!
 
 Just for the giggle factor, 2*128 bytes would require a stack of punch
 cards approximately 1.37x10**17 LIGHT YEARS tall!
 
 Rick
 
 On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Mike Cowlishaw m...@uk.ibm.com wrote:
 [Oorexx-devel] Groan!

 http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/enterprise/352270/microsoft-leaks-
 details-of-windows-8-and-windows-9

 I'm hoping this is a simple as just recompiling!
 Think of it as an opportunity to leapfrog them and go straight to 256-bit!!
   :-))

 Mike


 

 Unless stated otherwise above:
 IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
 741598.
 Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU





 --
 Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
 is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
 developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
 ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel


 
 --
 Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
 is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
 developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
 ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 

--
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Inconsistent behavior between Windows and Linux

[Chip Davis]

 one 
platform to another.

Besides, programmers doing porting are more than likely familiar with both 
platforms before undertaking such a project.  They should already understand 
the 
differences and be prepared to compensate for them.

Therefore, I hereby rescind my concurrence with both of your compelling (but 
flawed) arguments on the grounds of recently uncovered evidence.

My considered opinion is that ooRexx should follow the TSO/REXX model: 
establish 
a search order for those things which are ooRexx, and defer to the platform for 
everything else.  That is what programmers are going to expect, and violating 
programmer expectation raises the astonishment factor.

-Chip-

 On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Chip Davisc...@aviatrexx.com wrote:
 David -

 I'm afraid your example does not demonstrate the mechanism.  Try:

 [dash...@localhost ~]$ ad/prototype.rex

 and see if it finds the executable without the current directory being in the
 PATH variable.

 In your example, the shell knows that '.' is a pseudo-directory entry found 
 in
 every directory, which points to the inode of the directory it's in (a here
 pointer).  It's the same sort of directory entry as '..' which points to the
 inode of the parent directory of the one it's in.  This can be verified by
 inspecting the output of 'ls -lai'.

 The shell knows that it can construct absolute paths from the '.' and '..'
 tokens, and provides a few of its own like '~' and a few variants.  These are
 shortcuts for absolute paths, and the shell substitutes them into the 
 otherwise
 relative path you specified on the command line.

 For example, if your current directory was '/home/dashley/foo/bin' and you
 issued '../../ad/prototype.rex' the shell would have found it without 
 consulting
 the PATH variable.

 The same thing would happen if you issued: '~/ad/prototype.rex' from your
 username from any directory on the system.  Or '~dashley/ad/prototype.rex' 
 from
 any username anywhere on your system.

 Technically, all of the above are examples of specifying an absolute path,
 despite the fact that some of them do not start with a slash.

 When the shell has enough information from the command line to generate an
 absolute path, it does not refer to the PATH variable.

 I was going to describe that mechanism in my original post but I thought that
 such shell shortcuts were already understood.  My major point was that MS-DOS
 unilaterally and automatically adds the current directory to the PATH search
 list, doing so in the worst possible position for security, reliability, 
 etc.,
 and leaving no way to un-include the current directory from the PATH.  And 
 now
 ooRexx is making the same mistake.

 -Chip-

 On 6/26/09 18:10 David Ashley said:
 Chip -

 That is not correct, at least not on Linux as the following shows.

 [dash...@localhost ~]$ echo $PATH
 /usr/lib/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/lib/ccache:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/opt/ibm/c4eb/bin:/home/dashley/bin:/usr/kerberos/bin
 [dash...@localhost ~]$ pwd
 /home/dashley
 [dash...@localhost ~]$ ./ad/prototype.rex
 return type = int *
 function name = fname
 arg 1 type = int
 arg 1 name = arg1
 arg 2 type = char *
 arg 2 name = arg2
 arg 3 type = long *
 arg 3 name = arg3
 [dash...@localhost ~]$

 The /home/dashley subdir is not in the PATH but the program was found.
 Thus a relative path does not have to have its root path in the PATH.

 David Ashley

 Chip Davis wrote:
 On 6/26/09 16:05 Mark Miesfeld said:

 On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Rick McGuireobject.r...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

 So the bug is that it is found on Windows.  The bug is not that it
 should be found on Linux.

 Well, I only called it a bug on Windows because his example fails on 
 3.2.0.

 Not to be pedantic, but one could make the case that it _is_ a bug in 
 Window,
 albeit a long-standing one.

 In Linux/UNIX, a relative-path command will not be found unless its 
 directory
 was specified in the PATH variable.  The current directory could be 
 specified in
 the PATH with a dot or an extraneous delimiter (':') but is not required.

 If the current directory is not specified, it is not searched for a
 relative-path command.  This is useful when it was necessary to restrict 
 the
 directories from which commands can be issued.

 There are many ways to get malware onto a naive user's current directory, 
 so it
 is strongly recommended that if the current directory is in the user's 
 PATH, it
 should be at the end, and thus the last directory searched.

 MS-DOS (a re-implementation of UNIX for the PC) not only automatically 
 included
 the current directory in the PATH (hey, it's more convenient) but put it 
 at the
 beginning (hey, it's marginally faster).  Which made it trivially easy to 
 lure a
 naive user to a directory, whereupon he issues 'dir' which invokes a local
 executable that does bad things.

 The UNIX/Linux approach provides a mechanism to prevent picking up 
 executables
 from the local

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Inconsistent behavior between Windows and Linux

[Chip Davis]

On 6/26/09 16:05 Mark Miesfeld said:
 On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Rick McGuireobject.r...@gmail.com wrote:
 So the bug is that it is found on Windows.  The bug is not that it
 should be found on Linux.
 
 Well, I only called it a bug on Windows because his example fails on 3.2.0.

Not to be pedantic, but one could make the case that it _is_ a bug in Window, 
albeit a long-standing one.

In Linux/UNIX, a relative-path command will not be found unless its directory 
was specified in the PATH variable.  The current directory could be specified 
in 
the PATH with a dot or an extraneous delimiter (':') but is not required.

If the current directory is not specified, it is not searched for a 
relative-path command.  This is useful when it was necessary to restrict the 
directories from which commands can be issued.

There are many ways to get malware onto a naive user's current directory, so it 
is strongly recommended that if the current directory is in the user's PATH, it 
should be at the end, and thus the last directory searched.

MS-DOS (a re-implementation of UNIX for the PC) not only automatically included 
the current directory in the PATH (hey, it's more convenient) but put it at the 
beginning (hey, it's marginally faster).  Which made it trivially easy to lure 
a 
naive user to a directory, whereupon he issues 'dir' which invokes a local 
executable that does bad things.

The UNIX/Linux approach provides a mechanism to prevent picking up executables 
from the local directory.  The Windows, and now ooRexx, approach do not.  More 
importantly, there is no way to override the ooRexx search order if the user 
has 
need to.

-Chip-

--
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Inconsistent behavior between Windows and Linux

[Chip Davis]

David -

I'm afraid your example does not demonstrate the mechanism.  Try:

[dash...@localhost ~]$ ad/prototype.rex

and see if it finds the executable without the current directory being in the 
PATH variable.

In your example, the shell knows that '.' is a pseudo-directory entry found in 
every directory, which points to the inode of the directory it's in (a here 
pointer).  It's the same sort of directory entry as '..' which points to the 
inode of the parent directory of the one it's in.  This can be verified by 
inspecting the output of 'ls -lai'.

The shell knows that it can construct absolute paths from the '.' and '..' 
tokens, and provides a few of its own like '~' and a few variants.  These are 
shortcuts for absolute paths, and the shell substitutes them into the otherwise 
relative path you specified on the command line.

For example, if your current directory was '/home/dashley/foo/bin' and you 
issued '../../ad/prototype.rex' the shell would have found it without 
consulting 
the PATH variable.

The same thing would happen if you issued: '~/ad/prototype.rex' from your 
username from any directory on the system.  Or '~dashley/ad/prototype.rex' from 
any username anywhere on your system.

Technically, all of the above are examples of specifying an absolute path, 
despite the fact that some of them do not start with a slash.

When the shell has enough information from the command line to generate an 
absolute path, it does not refer to the PATH variable.

I was going to describe that mechanism in my original post but I thought that 
such shell shortcuts were already understood.  My major point was that MS-DOS 
unilaterally and automatically adds the current directory to the PATH search 
list, doing so in the worst possible position for security, reliability, etc., 
and leaving no way to un-include the current directory from the PATH.  And now 
ooRexx is making the same mistake.

-Chip-

On 6/26/09 18:10 David Ashley said:
 Chip -
 
 That is not correct, at least not on Linux as the following shows.
 
 [dash...@localhost ~]$ echo $PATH
 /usr/lib/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/lib/ccache:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/opt/ibm/c4eb/bin:/home/dashley/bin:/usr/kerberos/bin
 [dash...@localhost ~]$ pwd
 /home/dashley
 [dash...@localhost ~]$ ./ad/prototype.rex
 return type = int *
 function name = fname
 arg 1 type = int
 arg 1 name = arg1
 arg 2 type = char *
 arg 2 name = arg2
 arg 3 type = long *
 arg 3 name = arg3
 [dash...@localhost ~]$
 
 The /home/dashley subdir is not in the PATH but the program was found. 
 Thus a relative path does not have to have its root path in the PATH.
 
 David Ashley
 
 Chip Davis wrote:
 On 6/26/09 16:05 Mark Miesfeld said:
   
 On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Rick McGuireobject.r...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 So the bug is that it is found on Windows.  The bug is not that it
 should be found on Linux.
 
 Well, I only called it a bug on Windows because his example fails on 3.2.0.
 

 Not to be pedantic, but one could make the case that it _is_ a bug in 
 Window, 
 albeit a long-standing one.

 In Linux/UNIX, a relative-path command will not be found unless its 
 directory 
 was specified in the PATH variable.  The current directory could be 
 specified in 
 the PATH with a dot or an extraneous delimiter (':') but is not required.

 If the current directory is not specified, it is not searched for a 
 relative-path command.  This is useful when it was necessary to restrict the 
 directories from which commands can be issued.

 There are many ways to get malware onto a naive user's current directory, so 
 it 
 is strongly recommended that if the current directory is in the user's PATH, 
 it 
 should be at the end, and thus the last directory searched.

 MS-DOS (a re-implementation of UNIX for the PC) not only automatically 
 included 
 the current directory in the PATH (hey, it's more convenient) but put it at 
 the 
 beginning (hey, it's marginally faster).  Which made it trivially easy to 
 lure a 
 naive user to a directory, whereupon he issues 'dir' which invokes a local 
 executable that does bad things.

 The UNIX/Linux approach provides a mechanism to prevent picking up 
 executables 
 from the local directory.  The Windows, and now ooRexx, approach do not.  
 More 
 importantly, there is no way to override the ooRexx search order if the user 
 has 
 need to.

 -Chip-

 --
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

   
 
 
 
 
 --
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Fwd: Need a name for a new version of RexxCreateQueue

[Chip Davis]

Well, you know you can trust me to have an orthogonal take on this...

IMHO, the only problem with the OS/2-style RexxCreateQueue is that it tries to 
subsume two discrete operations: 1) verifying whether a queue by the supplied 
name already exists, and 2) creating a new queue.

This is a fine idea if most of the time, you simply want to create a queue and 
don't care what it is named.  One call to RexxCreateQueue and a uniquely-named 
queue is created, the name returned to you, and you're off to the races.

However, if you simply want to verify that a specific queue has already been 
created, it still takes two operations because sometimes the first step will 
have created a new queue that you don't want, so now you must delete it.

Also, if you want to create a specific named queue, it often requires a minimum 
of three operations: 1) attempt to create a queue by that name, 2) verify that 
a 
queue by that name doesn't already exist and if so, delete the uniquely-named 
queue created by step 1, and 3) come up with different name and try again.  If 
you do this in a loop and append an index to the name to attempt to make it 
unique, this could go on for quite a few iterations.

On the face of it, this is exactly the same problem as creating a temporary 
work 
file.  When you open temp.wrk, the return code tells you whether or not a 
file 
by that name already exists.  The open operation doesn't automagically create a 
temp.wrk1 that you have to come back and erase if you don't want it.

So rather than create a whole 'nother RexxCreateQueue (which is the perfect 
name) why not simply add an option to make it return a null string instead of 
mindlessly creating a unique queue?  That separates the query operation from 
the 
create operation, and avoids having to come up with yet another very similar 
function with a slightly different name.

This would kill several birds with a single stone.  If the major objection is 
the automatic creation of a unique queue, that behavior can be suppressed in 
favor of a string such as Stream('temp.wrk','c','query exists') returns.  It 
also satisfies the RFE for a RexxQueueExists operation.  And it would be 
backwards-compatible in exactly the same way as the explicit OPEN and CLOSE 
operations were added to Stream.

It seems to me that any conceptual parallelism between the Queue and Stream 
operations should be exploited.

-Chip-

On 9/22/08 13:31 Rick McGuire said:
 Given that this has all been rewritten anyway, I'd like a do over on
 something I did 20 years ago.  The RexxCreateQueue API will create a
 new queue with a unique name if the requested name already exists.  I
 really don't remember why we decided to do it this way with the
 original OS/2 implementation 20 years ago, but I have a vague memory
 that it was something the OS/2 people wanted.  Frankly, this has
 generally not worked out real well.  In most cases, the create
 operation is called for the purposed of creating the queue if it
 doesn't already exists.  The current behavior means the caller need to
 check the returned name and then delete the additional queue if one
 was created.  Generally, a pain.
 
 I'd like to create a new version of the API (and expose it in the
 RxQueue() function and the RexxQueue class) that behaves the way
 people generally want this to work, which is to make sure that the
 queue exists.  This is fairly easy to dothe biggest hang up is
 what to call the operation?  The best I've come up with so far is
 RexxOpenQueue(), but it's not create an open operation.
 RexxGetQueue() might also work, but a Get implies something is
 returned, which is not really the case.
 
 We have an RFE for an exists operation also, so I'll probably add a
 RexxQueueExists() API at the same time.
 
 Rick


-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK  win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Railroad tracks in docs

[Chip Davis]

I agree with John: ASCII-art rail diagrams can be a visual disaster, but often 
no worse than the typesetter-only massive (and massively nested) braces, 
brackets, commas, and ellipses of the IBM documentation style they replaced.

And he's also right about the flexibility of rail diagrams when it comes to 
complex syntax with nested required options and other dependent relationships.

I also agree with David that while presentation might not be everything, it 
should be the first thing.  Immediate clarity should be the goal, with explicit 
accuracy available should the user need to drill down to that level.

I've seen examples of most of the other documentation styles mentioned and none 
of them jump out at me as sufficiently superior to what we have to justify the 
wholesale conversion of the ooRexx documentation yet.

As for automating the documentation update process, I recall a utility some 
time 
ago that took a set of BNF specifications (or was it yacc?) and would output 
the 
syntax diagrams.  Probably not applicable in this case, but 'twould be nice if 
the diagrams were autogenerated from the source.  It would also provide another 
component of the test suite.

-Chip-

On 8/25/08 12:15 John R bodoh said:
 I prefer railroad track diagrams...when they're done right.  When railroad
 tracks are done with dashes, pluses, and 'OR' characters they look horrible.
 However, when done with box characters (horizontal rules, Tees, vertical
 rules), they look great.
 
 The example you show is not very sophisticated and is an example that makes
 the OVERLAY   syntax look OK.  However, an example that has a choice
 group with many choices would look horrible.
 
 I don't know how the railroad track diagram is generated but in DITA (and
 BookMaster), they use syntax markup language which makes it very easy to
 change the diagram. 
 
 Thanks,
  
  
 
 Be Wise with iWiseT
 John Bodoh
 Senior Designer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  919-460-4721
 The infraWise/IRC Group of Companies 
 204 Shannon Oaks
 Cary, North Carolina, USA
 NC 27518
 www.infraWise.com
  
  
  
  
  
 -Original Message-
 From: Rick McGuire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 11:30 AM
 To: Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
 Subject: [Oorexx-devel] Railroad tracks in docs

 I've never been a big fan of railroad track diagrams for syntax
 diagrams, but they were an IBM standard so they sort of got imposed on
 the Object Rexx docs.  Now that I've had to update a few of these, I'm
 even less of a fan of these.  I find them hard to read, hard to
 update, and easy to get wrong.  I much prefer the simpler syntax that
 MFC used in TRL.  For example, here's the railroad track diagram for
 OVERLAY()

 -OVERLAY(new,target---
 --+---+--)
+-,--+---+--+-+-+
 +-n-+  +-,--++--+--+-+
 +-length-+  +-,pad-+

 vs. Mike's syntax in TRL:

 OVERLAY(new,target[,[n][,[length][,pad]]])

 This is much easier to scan from left-to-right to see what arguments
 are optional, and is also easier to update to add additional
 arguments.  Anybody else in favor of changing this?

 Rick

 -
 This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
 challenge
 Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK  win great
 prizes
 Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the
 world
 http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 
 
 -
 This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
 Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK  win great prizes
 Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
 http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/
 ___
 Oorexx-devel mailing list
 Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel
 
 


-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK  win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel

Re: [Oorexx-devel] Where are we at with running unit tests?

[Chip Davis]

On 6/30/08 14:48 Mark Miesfeld said:
 The Clipboard test case that failed did a clipboard copy immediately
 followed by a clipboard paste.
 
   cb1~copy(Some text)
   text = cb2~paste
 
 Sometimes text would be the empty string.  I think that was just
 timing.  If you query the clipboard to see if it has data after the
 copy, then do the paste, it works every time.  Normally you would
 query the clipboard to see if it has data before doing a paste anyway.

uh, Mark...  Is this behavior documented?  I'm not at all sure that I would 
have 
thought to query the clipboard any more than I would have thought to re-read 
a 
just-written file record to see if it has data.

A copy operation, immediately followed by a paste operation, that failed on 
occasion would definitely raise my astonishment factor...

-Chip-


-
Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW!
Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
___
Oorexx-devel mailing list
Oorexx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oorexx-devel