Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Dileep V S]

Very interesting discussion that has helped us get some of our thoughts
clarified. We have started building a virtual folder as a service outside
Ethercis to cover our requirements and are hoping to migrate the structure
into the EHR server at a later date.

The plan is to cover both the things mentioned in Thomas's response. We
intend to get a list of compositions associated with a folder from this
service and pass it to the AQL to get what we want.

However, I am not sure how to rebuild the folder structure if it is lost.
We do not have any folder related information inside Compositions and so
the query can only go from folder to the composition and not the other way.
Keeping folder details in Composition may not be a good idea as folder is
meant to be virtual grouping and can have some dynamism around it. Also
same composition can, in theory, be part of multiple folders. There is also
the concept of a folder hierarchy that exists only within the folder
service.

regards

Dileep V S
*Founder*
HealtheLife Ventures LLP
m: +91 9632888113
a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:30 PM, Thomas Beale 
wrote:

>
> The easiest way to think about this question is: if someone trashed the
> Folder structure, could we (some admin app) rebuild it? The answer is
> interesting. It should normally be possible to rebuild the Folder /
> Composition association structure (it's not containment, just referencing),
> but of course, if you stored other information in the Folders, for example
> in the recently SEC-approved other_details structure, then you would lose
> that.
>
> So the Folder approach does two things:
>
>- represents a pre-built query result (the Folder/Composition
>associations) - giving instant access, and avoiding having to construct the
>query, which is usually somewhat messy.
>- allows other information to be stored directly about the thing the
>Folder represents, e.g. admission / stay in a facility.
>
> - thomas
>
> On 17/08/2018 16:20, Seref Arikan wrote:
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> When the fact that the Composition is associated to an encounter or
> episode of care is recorded by including a reference to that composition in
> a folder, some clinical context/information related to that composition is
> now stored outside the composition, by means of a refence in a folder
>
> Unless I'm missing an Aql feature that can help, you can no longer select
> those compositions via Aql (since Aql does not support/specify how to
> resolve refs)
>
> If you follow the encounter id approach you mentioned, then you could use
> Aql.
>
> In fact, if Ethercis had support for Folder, Dileep would still not be
> able to get those compositions with a singl query: he'd need to fetchs uids
> from a folder with one query, then perform a second query to get
> compositions in the way I suggested.
>
> I'm probably being unnecessarily picky here, just pointing at the
> difference between approaches and trying to put my finger on any downstream
> issues. I'm not doing a great job of it though :)
>
> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Ian McNicoll  wrote:
>
>> Hi Seref,
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand your concerns here. I think the use case is
>> where there is a need to group compositions by some other higher level
>> construct which usually reflect something like an admission, episode of
>> outpatient care or perhaps a community plan of care.
>>
>> As Dileep has indicated he probably would use folders if Ethercis
>> supported them. Another alternative is to create an Encounter ID for each
>> new encounter (which in Dileep's example, I think I would call an episode
>> of care, and simply tag each composition with that Encounter ID e.g create
>> a cluster archetype to hold this in every Composition/ other_context. I
>> have done that on other projects. So it is a case of looking of all
>> composition with EncounterId = x
>> Now I would probably go down the Folder route, if I could.
>> Ian
>> Dr Ian McNicoll
>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
>> office +44 (0)1536 414994
>> skype: ianmcnicoll
>> email: i...@freshehr.com
>> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>>
>>
>> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
>> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
>> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
>> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 13:59, Seref Arikan > .com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self contained units of
>>> information, at the very least using references to other means of
>>> expressing semantics (as in terminologies)
>>>
>>> What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics out of the
>>> composion and if we have multiple ways of doing that, it may hurt
>>> reusability of queries and data.
>>>
>>> Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs without
>>> losing its trace within the cmposition?
>>>
>>> (Sorry for the typos, on the phone..)
>>>
>>> On

Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Thomas Beale]

The easiest way to think about this question is: if someone trashed the 
Folder structure, could we (some admin app) rebuild it? The answer is 
interesting. It should normally be possible to rebuild the Folder / 
Composition association structure (it's not containment, just 
referencing), but of course, if you stored other information in the 
Folders, for example in the recently SEC-approved other_details 
structure, then you would lose that.


So the Folder approach does two things:

 * represents a pre-built query result (the Folder/Composition
   associations) - giving instant access, and avoiding having to
   construct the query, which is usually somewhat messy.
 * allows other information to be stored directly about the thing the
   Folder represents, e.g. admission / stay in a facility.

- thomas


On 17/08/2018 16:20, Seref Arikan wrote:

Hi Ian,

When the fact that the Composition is associated to an encounter or 
episode of care is recorded by including a reference to that 
composition in a folder, some clinical context/information related to 
that composition is now stored outside the composition, by means of a 
refence in a folder


Unless I'm missing an Aql feature that can help, you can no longer 
select those compositions via Aql (since Aql does not support/specify 
how to resolve refs)


If you follow the encounter id approach you mentioned, then you could 
use Aql.


In fact, if Ethercis had support for Folder, Dileep would still not be 
able to get those compositions with a singl query: he'd need to fetchs 
uids from a folder with one query, then perform a second query to get 
compositions in the way I suggested.


I'm probably being unnecessarily picky here, just pointing at the 
difference between approaches and trying to put my finger on any 
downstream issues. I'm not doing a great job of it though :)


On Friday, August 17, 2018, Ian McNicoll > wrote:


Hi Seref,

I'm not sure I understand your concerns here. I think the use case
is where there is a need to group compositions by some other
higher level construct which usually reflect something like an
admission, episode of outpatient care or perhaps a community plan
of care.

As Dileep has indicated he probably would use folders if Ethercis
supported them. Another alternative is to create an Encounter ID
for each new encounter (which in Dileep's example, I think I would
call an episode of care, and simply tag each composition with that
Encounter ID e.g create a cluster archetype to hold this in every
Composition/ other_context. I have done that on other projects. So
it is a case of looking of all composition with EncounterId = x
Now I would probably go down the Folder route, if I could.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: i...@freshehr.com 
twitter: @ianmcnicoll


Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org

Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL


On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 13:59, Seref Arikan
mailto:serefari...@kurumsalteknoloji.com>> wrote:

I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self
contained units of information, at the very least using
references to other means of expressing semantics (as in
terminologies)

What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics
out of the composion and if we have multiple ways of doing
that, it may hurt reusability of queries and data.

Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs
without losing its trace within the cmposition?

(Sorry for the typos, on the phone..)

On Friday, August 17, 2018, Thomas Beale
mailto:thomas.be...@openehr.org>>
wrote:

There is a bigger question of how best to model
'encounter' and 'admission', which some implementers are
doing with Folders, particularly DIPS in Norway. I suspect
that some version of using Folders (or else some kind of
tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the
long term approach to doing this.

- thomas


On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:

Hi,

Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific
compositions? Is there any sample for reference?

I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters
and maintain a collection of compositions per encounter.
I am using AQL to retrieve data per encounter and need to
pass the corresponding set of compositions.

Thanks in advance

regards



-- 
Thomas Beale

Principal, Ars Sema

Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Seref Arikan]

But folder does not contain COMPOSITIONS,  it contains object refs
https://www.openehr.org/releases/RM/latest/docs/common/common.html#_folder_class

You need some aql semantics to resolve those refs to whatever they're
pointing at, which does not exist as far as I know (q: what if object refs
are pointing at different types ? :) )

Contains is only applicable to parent/child/../descendant relationship of
object.property paths



On Friday, August 17, 2018, Ian McNicoll  wrote:

> Hi Seref,
>
> My understanding is that AQL can support FOLDER (assuming it is
> implemented) with something like
>
> Select c
> FROM EHR e CONTAINS FOLDER f CONTAINS COMPOSITION c
> Where folder f.name = "My lovely encounters"
>
> but I may be wrong (both in principle and practice)
>
> Ian
>
> Dr Ian McNicoll
> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
> office +44 (0)1536 414994
> skype: ianmcnicoll
> email: i...@freshehr.com
> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>
>
> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 16:20, Seref Arikan  kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ian,
>>
>> When the fact that the Composition is associated to an encounter or
>> episode of care is recorded by including a reference to that composition in
>> a folder, some clinical context/information related to that composition is
>> now stored outside the composition, by means of a refence in a folder
>>
>> Unless I'm missing an Aql feature that can help, you can no longer select
>> those compositions via Aql (since Aql does not support/specify how to
>> resolve refs)
>>
>> If you follow the encounter id approach you mentioned, then you could use
>> Aql.
>>
>> In fact, if Ethercis had support for Folder, Dileep would still not be
>> able to get those compositions with a singl query: he'd need to fetchs uids
>> from a folder with one query, then perform a second query to get
>> compositions in the way I suggested.
>>
>> I'm probably being unnecessarily picky here, just pointing at the
>> difference between approaches and trying to put my finger on any downstream
>> issues. I'm not doing a great job of it though :)
>>
>> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Ian McNicoll  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Seref,
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I understand your concerns here. I think the use case is
>>> where there is a need to group compositions by some other higher level
>>> construct which usually reflect something like an admission, episode of
>>> outpatient care or perhaps a community plan of care.
>>>
>>> As Dileep has indicated he probably would use folders if Ethercis
>>> supported them. Another alternative is to create an Encounter ID for each
>>> new encounter (which in Dileep's example, I think I would call an episode
>>> of care, and simply tag each composition with that Encounter ID e.g create
>>> a cluster archetype to hold this in every Composition/ other_context. I
>>> have done that on other projects. So it is a case of looking of all
>>> composition with EncounterId = x
>>> Now I would probably go down the Folder route, if I could.
>>> Ian
>>> Dr Ian McNicoll
>>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
>>> office +44 (0)1536 414994
>>> skype: ianmcnicoll
>>> email: i...@freshehr.com
>>> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>>>
>>>
>>> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
>>> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
>>> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
>>> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 13:59, Seref Arikan >> kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:
>>>
 I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self contained units
 of information, at the very least using references to other means of
 expressing semantics (as in terminologies)

 What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics out of the
 composion and if we have multiple ways of doing that, it may hurt
 reusability of queries and data.

 Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs without
 losing its trace within the cmposition?

 (Sorry for the typos, on the phone..)

 On Friday, August 17, 2018, Thomas Beale 
 wrote:

> There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and
> 'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, particularly
> DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using Folders (or else some
> kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the long term
> approach to doing this.
>
> - thomas
>
> On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions?
> Is there any sample for reference?
>
> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain
> a collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve 
> data
> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding s

Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Ian McNicoll]

Hi Seref,

My understanding is that AQL can support FOLDER (assuming it is
implemented) with something like

Select c
FROM EHR e CONTAINS FOLDER f CONTAINS COMPOSITION c
Where folder f.name = "My lovely encounters"

but I may be wrong (both in principle and practice)

Ian

Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: i...@freshehr.com
twitter: @ianmcnicoll


Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL


On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 16:20, Seref Arikan <
serefari...@kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> When the fact that the Composition is associated to an encounter or
> episode of care is recorded by including a reference to that composition in
> a folder, some clinical context/information related to that composition is
> now stored outside the composition, by means of a refence in a folder
>
> Unless I'm missing an Aql feature that can help, you can no longer select
> those compositions via Aql (since Aql does not support/specify how to
> resolve refs)
>
> If you follow the encounter id approach you mentioned, then you could use
> Aql.
>
> In fact, if Ethercis had support for Folder, Dileep would still not be
> able to get those compositions with a singl query: he'd need to fetchs uids
> from a folder with one query, then perform a second query to get
> compositions in the way I suggested.
>
> I'm probably being unnecessarily picky here, just pointing at the
> difference between approaches and trying to put my finger on any downstream
> issues. I'm not doing a great job of it though :)
>
> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Ian McNicoll  wrote:
>
>> Hi Seref,
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand your concerns here. I think the use case is
>> where there is a need to group compositions by some other higher level
>> construct which usually reflect something like an admission, episode of
>> outpatient care or perhaps a community plan of care.
>>
>> As Dileep has indicated he probably would use folders if Ethercis
>> supported them. Another alternative is to create an Encounter ID for each
>> new encounter (which in Dileep's example, I think I would call an episode
>> of care, and simply tag each composition with that Encounter ID e.g create
>> a cluster archetype to hold this in every Composition/ other_context. I
>> have done that on other projects. So it is a case of looking of all
>> composition with EncounterId = x
>> Now I would probably go down the Folder route, if I could.
>> Ian
>> Dr Ian McNicoll
>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
>> office +44 (0)1536 414994
>> skype: ianmcnicoll
>> email: i...@freshehr.com
>> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>>
>>
>> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
>> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
>> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
>> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 13:59, Seref Arikan <
>> serefari...@kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self contained units of
>>> information, at the very least using references to other means of
>>> expressing semantics (as in terminologies)
>>>
>>> What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics out of the
>>> composion and if we have multiple ways of doing that, it may hurt
>>> reusability of queries and data.
>>>
>>> Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs without
>>> losing its trace within the cmposition?
>>>
>>> (Sorry for the typos, on the phone..)
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Thomas Beale 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and
 'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, particularly
 DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using Folders (or else some
 kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the long term
 approach to doing this.

 - thomas

 On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:

 Hi,

 Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions?
 Is there any sample for reference?

 I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
 collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
 per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.

 Thanks in advance

 regards


 --
 Thomas Beale
 Principal, Ars Semantica 
 Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare
 
 Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation
 
 Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society
 
 Health IT blog  | Culture blog
  | The Objective Stance
 

Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Seref Arikan]

Hi Ian,

When the fact that the Composition is associated to an encounter or episode
of care is recorded by including a reference to that composition in a
folder, some clinical context/information related to that composition is
now stored outside the composition, by means of a refence in a folder

Unless I'm missing an Aql feature that can help, you can no longer select
those compositions via Aql (since Aql does not support/specify how to
resolve refs)

If you follow the encounter id approach you mentioned, then you could use
Aql.

In fact, if Ethercis had support for Folder, Dileep would still not be able
to get those compositions with a singl query: he'd need to fetchs uids from
a folder with one query, then perform a second query to get compositions in
the way I suggested.

I'm probably being unnecessarily picky here, just pointing at the
difference between approaches and trying to put my finger on any downstream
issues. I'm not doing a great job of it though :)

On Friday, August 17, 2018, Ian McNicoll  wrote:

> Hi Seref,
>
> I'm not sure I understand your concerns here. I think the use case is
> where there is a need to group compositions by some other higher level
> construct which usually reflect something like an admission, episode of
> outpatient care or perhaps a community plan of care.
>
> As Dileep has indicated he probably would use folders if Ethercis
> supported them. Another alternative is to create an Encounter ID for each
> new encounter (which in Dileep's example, I think I would call an episode
> of care, and simply tag each composition with that Encounter ID e.g create
> a cluster archetype to hold this in every Composition/ other_context. I
> have done that on other projects. So it is a case of looking of all
> composition with EncounterId = x
> Now I would probably go down the Folder route, if I could.
> Ian
> Dr Ian McNicoll
> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
> office +44 (0)1536 414994
> skype: ianmcnicoll
> email: i...@freshehr.com
> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>
>
> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 13:59, Seref Arikan  kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self contained units of
>> information, at the very least using references to other means of
>> expressing semantics (as in terminologies)
>>
>> What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics out of the
>> composion and if we have multiple ways of doing that, it may hurt
>> reusability of queries and data.
>>
>> Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs without losing
>> its trace within the cmposition?
>>
>> (Sorry for the typos, on the phone..)
>>
>> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Thomas Beale 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and
>>> 'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, particularly
>>> DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using Folders (or else some
>>> kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the long term
>>> approach to doing this.
>>>
>>> - thomas
>>>
>>> On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions?
>>> Is there any sample for reference?
>>>
>>> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
>>> collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
>>> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thomas Beale
>>> Principal, Ars Semantica 
>>> Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare
>>> 
>>> Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation
>>> 
>>> Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society
>>> 
>>> Health IT blog  | Culture blog
>>>  | The Objective Stance
>>> 
>>>
>> ___
>> openEHR-technical mailing list
>> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-
>> technical_lists.openehr.org
>>
>
___
openEHR-technical mailing list
openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org

Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Ian McNicoll]

Hi Seref,

I'm not sure I understand your concerns here. I think the use case is where
there is a need to group compositions by some other higher level construct
which usually reflect something like an admission, episode of outpatient
care or perhaps a community plan of care.

As Dileep has indicated he probably would use folders if Ethercis supported
them. Another alternative is to create an Encounter ID for each new
encounter (which in Dileep's example, I think I would call an episode of
care, and simply tag each composition with that Encounter ID e.g create a
cluster archetype to hold this in every Composition/ other_context. I have
done that on other projects. So it is a case of looking of all composition
with EncounterId = x
Now I would probably go down the Folder route, if I could.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: i...@freshehr.com
twitter: @ianmcnicoll


Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL


On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 13:59, Seref Arikan <
serefari...@kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:

> I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self contained units of
> information, at the very least using references to other means of
> expressing semantics (as in terminologies)
>
> What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics out of the
> composion and if we have multiple ways of doing that, it may hurt
> reusability of queries and data.
>
> Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs without losing
> its trace within the cmposition?
>
> (Sorry for the typos, on the phone..)
>
> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Thomas Beale  wrote:
>
>> There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and
>> 'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, particularly
>> DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using Folders (or else some
>> kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the long term
>> approach to doing this.
>>
>> - thomas
>>
>> On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? Is
>> there any sample for reference?
>>
>> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
>> collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
>> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> regards
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Beale
>> Principal, Ars Semantica 
>> Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare
>> 
>> Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation
>> 
>> Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society
>> 
>> Health IT blog  | Culture blog
>>  | The Objective Stance
>> 
>>
> ___
> openEHR-technical mailing list
> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
>
___
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openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org

Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Seref Arikan]

I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self contained units of
information, at the very least using references to other means of
expressing semantics (as in terminologies)

What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics out of the
composion and if we have multiple ways of doing that, it may hurt
reusability of queries and data.

Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs without losing
its trace within the cmposition?

(Sorry for the typos, on the phone..)

On Friday, August 17, 2018, Thomas Beale  wrote:

> There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and
> 'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, particularly
> DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using Folders (or else some
> kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the long term
> approach to doing this.
>
> - thomas
>
> On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? Is
> there any sample for reference?
>
> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
> collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> regards
>
>
> --
> Thomas Beale
> Principal, Ars Semantica 
> Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare
> 
> Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation
> 
> Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society
> 
> Health IT blog  | Culture blog
>  | The Objective Stance
> 
>
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Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Dileep V S]

We are working on the same lines. As Ethecis does not have folder concept
currently, we are doing this minimally outside as a different service.

 thanks for the pointer
Regards



On Fri 17 Aug, 2018, 5:28 PM Thomas Beale,  wrote:

> There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and
> 'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, particularly
> DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using Folders (or else some
> kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the long term
> approach to doing this.
>
> - thomas
>
> On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? Is
> there any sample for reference?
>
> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
> collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> regards
>
>
> --
> Thomas Beale
> Principal, Ars Semantica 
> Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare
> 
> Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation
> 
> Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society
> 
> Health IT blog  | Culture blog
>  | The Objective Stance
> 
> ___
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Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Thomas Beale]

There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and 
'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, 
particularly DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using 
Folders (or else some kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) 
will be the long term approach to doing this.


- thomas


On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote:

Hi,

Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? 
Is there any sample for reference?


I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain 
a collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve 
data per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.


Thanks in advance

regards



--
Thomas Beale
Principal, Ars Semantica 
Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare 

Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation 

Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society 

Health IT blog  | Culture blog 
 | The Objective Stance 

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Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Dileep V S]

thanks Ian, Seref

 regards

On Fri 17 Aug, 2018, 4:25 PM Ian McNicoll,  wrote:

> Beat me to it :(
>
> Ian
>
> Dr Ian McNicoll
> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
> office +44 (0)1536 414994
> skype: ianmcnicoll
> email: i...@freshehr.com
> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>
>
> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 11:52, Seref Arikan <
> serefari...@kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:
>
>> Modifying Ian's example for a/uid/value and using uid values instead of
>> names should do the trick
>>
>> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Dileep V S  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Ian,
>>>
>>> However my requirement is different. I seem to have confused you with
>>> the way my question was framed.
>>>
>>> What I meant by composition ID was in fact Composition UID. I want to
>>> query the same template (/name/value), but limited to specific commits
>>> (compositionUIDs).
>>>
>>> I hope that helps
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Dileep V S
>>> *Founder*
>>> HealtheLife Ventures LLP
>>> m: +91 9632888113
>>> a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
>>> w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Ian McNicoll  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Dileep,

 I do this by querying on the name attribute of the root composition
 archetype - see the examples in


 https://github.com/RippleOSI/Ripple-openEHR/blob/master/docs/bindings/Current%20Ripple%20Headings/Clinical%20notes/clinical_notes.md

 You can of course query on multiple names.

 where a/name/value matches {'Clinical Notes', 'Other Clinical Notes'}

 Going forward I would expect the list of allowable composition names to
 come from a controlled vocabulary or even a local terminology.

 Ian

 Dr Ian McNicoll
 mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
 office +44 (0)1536 414994
 skype: ianmcnicoll
 email: i...@freshehr.com
 twitter: @ianmcnicoll


 Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
 Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
 Director, HANDIHealth CIC
 Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL


 On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 10:54, Dileep V S  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions?
> Is there any sample for reference?
>
> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain
> a collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve 
> data
> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> regards
>
> Dileep V S
> *Founder*
> HealtheLife Ventures LLP
> m: +91 9632888113
> a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
> w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
> ___
> openEHR-technical mailing list
> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
>

 ___
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 openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org

 http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org


>>> ___
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>>
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Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Ian McNicoll]

Beat me to it :(

Ian

Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: i...@freshehr.com
twitter: @ianmcnicoll


Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL


On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 11:52, Seref Arikan <
serefari...@kurumsalteknoloji.com> wrote:

> Modifying Ian's example for a/uid/value and using uid values instead of
> names should do the trick
>
> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Dileep V S  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ian,
>>
>> However my requirement is different. I seem to have confused you with the
>> way my question was framed.
>>
>> What I meant by composition ID was in fact Composition UID. I want to
>> query the same template (/name/value), but limited to specific commits
>> (compositionUIDs).
>>
>> I hope that helps
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Dileep V S
>> *Founder*
>> HealtheLife Ventures LLP
>> m: +91 9632888113
>> a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
>> w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Ian McNicoll  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dileep,
>>>
>>> I do this by querying on the name attribute of the root composition
>>> archetype - see the examples in
>>>
>>>
>>> https://github.com/RippleOSI/Ripple-openEHR/blob/master/docs/bindings/Current%20Ripple%20Headings/Clinical%20notes/clinical_notes.md
>>>
>>> You can of course query on multiple names.
>>>
>>> where a/name/value matches {'Clinical Notes', 'Other Clinical Notes'}
>>>
>>> Going forward I would expect the list of allowable composition names to
>>> come from a controlled vocabulary or even a local terminology.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> Dr Ian McNicoll
>>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
>>> office +44 (0)1536 414994
>>> skype: ianmcnicoll
>>> email: i...@freshehr.com
>>> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>>>
>>>
>>> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
>>> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
>>> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
>>> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 10:54, Dileep V S  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions?
 Is there any sample for reference?

 I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
 collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
 per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.

 Thanks in advance

 regards

 Dileep V S
 *Founder*
 HealtheLife Ventures LLP
 m: +91 9632888113
 a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
 w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
 ___
 openEHR-technical mailing list
 openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org

 http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org

>>>
>>> ___
>>> openEHR-technical mailing list
>>> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>>>
>>> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
>>>
>>>
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Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Seref Arikan]

Modifying Ian's example for a/uid/value and using uid values instead of
names should do the trick

On Friday, August 17, 2018, Dileep V S  wrote:

> Thanks Ian,
>
> However my requirement is different. I seem to have confused you with the
> way my question was framed.
>
> What I meant by composition ID was in fact Composition UID. I want to
> query the same template (/name/value), but limited to specific commits
> (compositionUIDs).
>
> I hope that helps
>
> regards
>
> Dileep V S
> *Founder*
> HealtheLife Ventures LLP
> m: +91 9632888113
> a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
> w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Ian McNicoll  wrote:
>
>> Hi Dileep,
>>
>> I do this by querying on the name attribute of the root composition
>> archetype - see the examples in
>>
>> https://github.com/RippleOSI/Ripple-openEHR/blob/master/docs
>> /bindings/Current%20Ripple%20Headings/Clinical%20notes/clinical_notes.md
>>
>> You can of course query on multiple names.
>>
>> where a/name/value matches {'Clinical Notes', 'Other Clinical Notes'}
>>
>> Going forward I would expect the list of allowable composition names to
>> come from a controlled vocabulary or even a local terminology.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> Dr Ian McNicoll
>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
>> office +44 (0)1536 414994
>> skype: ianmcnicoll
>> email: i...@freshehr.com
>> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>>
>>
>> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
>> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
>> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
>> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 10:54, Dileep V S  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions?
>>> Is there any sample for reference?
>>>
>>> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
>>> collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
>>> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Dileep V S
>>> *Founder*
>>> HealtheLife Ventures LLP
>>> m: +91 9632888113
>>> a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
>>> w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
>>> ___
>>> openEHR-technical mailing list
>>> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>>> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_
>>> lists.openehr.org
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> lists.openehr.org
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>>
>
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Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Dileep V S]

Thanks Ian,

However my requirement is different. I seem to have confused you with the
way my question was framed.

What I meant by composition ID was in fact Composition UID. I want to query
the same template (/name/value), but limited to specific commits
(compositionUIDs).

I hope that helps

regards

Dileep V S
*Founder*
HealtheLife Ventures LLP
m: +91 9632888113
a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Ian McNicoll  wrote:

> Hi Dileep,
>
> I do this by querying on the name attribute of the root composition
> archetype - see the examples in
>
> https://github.com/RippleOSI/Ripple-openEHR/blob/master/
> docs/bindings/Current%20Ripple%20Headings/Clinical%
> 20notes/clinical_notes.md
>
> You can of course query on multiple names.
>
> where a/name/value matches {'Clinical Notes', 'Other Clinical Notes'}
>
> Going forward I would expect the list of allowable composition names to
> come from a controlled vocabulary or even a local terminology.
>
> Ian
>
> Dr Ian McNicoll
> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
> office +44 (0)1536 414994
> skype: ianmcnicoll
> email: i...@freshehr.com
> twitter: @ianmcnicoll
>
>
> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
> Director, HANDIHealth CIC
> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 10:54, Dileep V S  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? Is
>> there any sample for reference?
>>
>> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
>> collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
>> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Dileep V S
>> *Founder*
>> HealtheLife Ventures LLP
>> m: +91 9632888113
>> a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
>> w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
>> ___
>> openEHR-technical mailing list
>> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-
>> technical_lists.openehr.org
>>
>
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Re: AQL on specific list of compositions

[Ian McNicoll]

Hi Dileep,

I do this by querying on the name attribute of the root composition
archetype - see the examples in

https://github.com/RippleOSI/Ripple-openEHR/blob/master/docs/bindings/Current%20Ripple%20Headings/Clinical%20notes/clinical_notes.md

You can of course query on multiple names.

where a/name/value matches {'Clinical Notes', 'Other Clinical Notes'}

Going forward I would expect the list of allowable composition names to
come from a controlled vocabulary or even a local terminology.

Ian

Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: i...@freshehr.com
twitter: @ianmcnicoll


Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org
Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL


On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 10:54, Dileep V S  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? Is
> there any sample for reference?
>
> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
> collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> regards
>
> Dileep V S
> *Founder*
> HealtheLife Ventures LLP
> m: +91 9632888113
> a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
> w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
> ___
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> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
>
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AQL on specific list of compositions

[Dileep V S]

Hi,

Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? Is
there any sample for reference?

I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain a
collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve data
per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions.

Thanks in advance

regards

Dileep V S
*Founder*
HealtheLife Ventures LLP
m: +91 9632888113
a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100
w: healthelife.in  e: dil...@healthelife.in
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