New Standard Proposal
PDF is a standard for creating and reading documents Acrobat reader is free and equivalent free software (opensource in french). It is indeed the need, in my opinion, the doctors, requesting documents. However PDF is not done to create a system of information. This requires tools (language) to enable the computer to swallow, sort and manipulate data. It's totally different. Best regard's Dr R LONJON France Selon Eddy Rospide edrs22 at yahoo.com: PDF would require at the very least the Adobe Acrobat Reader on the local machine to be read. While I understand the finality of using PDF for medical purposes, it becomes even more difficult to work with if you want to convert it to plan text for query purposes. Eddy
Dr LONJON France XML versions of the ADL
Hello heath In the examples you show, located at http://svn.openehr.org/knowledge/archetypes/dev. there is a french version pending and write? This is that there are people interested in doing the job? best regard's Dr R LONJON Clermont Fd - France Selon Heath Frankel heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com: Greg and others, We have configured an auto-build process to convert the ADL archetypes to XML located at http://svn.openehr.org/knowledge/archetypes/dev. They now all exist and are valid against the RM 101 XML Schema. Let me know if you find any issues with the XML content. Regards Heath
DV_QUANTITY_RATIO - remove from specification
Hello, The semantic debate, if I understood door well on the way to represent an exploitable data by a computer. The topic is the numeration formulates red chalk. it exists an unit well to know the number of globules counted on the one hand by reference to an unit of volume and a percentage in relation to the other cells in the same unit of volume. Excuse me if my remark is to quoted of the question, because my comprehension of the technical English is basic. cordially Dr R LONJON France Selon Sam Heard sam.heard at oceaninformatics.biz: Dear Tim The reality is that PCV and Red Cell Distribution width are proportions and as such have no units. So the new data type meets the needs you have identified. One aspect is to constrain the magnitude (which is a function) and might usefully be set. Cheers, Sam Tim Churches wrote: Sam Heard wrote: Yes, and replaced with Proportion which is a more general concept. Sam Surely a proportion has to be constrained to lie between 0.0 and 1.0? How can that be used to express quantities without units which are greater than one (without the added complication of a multiplier). A ratio has no such constraints. Or have I misunderstood what is intended? Tim C Mattias Forss wrote: 2006/12/8, Thomas Beale Thomas.Beale at oceaninformatics.biz mailto:Thomas.Beale at oceaninformatics.biz: Mattias Forss wrote: Does this mean that the ratio constraint could as of now be removed from the archetype editors? Will the DV_RATIO class be removed from the specifications as well? If not, should the editors change the current ratio constraint to be of a DV_RATIO instead of a DV_QUANTITY_RATIO? this is the expected approach. I know it is annoying for us to make this software change, but we cannot escape the fact that there were some categories of clinical data that were not properly addressed by the current data types. Not sure what your answer is here, can the ratio constraint be removed from the editors or not? I think that the new DV_PROPORTION class could be used instead of DV_QUANTITY when there are no units, e.g. only the property 'Qualified real' and the empty string as a unit or a missing unit attribute in the item list of C_QUANTITY and only a magnitude attribute. The current ADL parser doesn't expect empty or null units which is correct according to the specification of C_QUANTITY_ITEM in the archetype profile package. Hence, there should always be a unit specified for each item in the item list of C_QUANTITY in archetypes and it cannot be empty because quantified data with no units could be represented with the DV_PROPORTION data type, right? DV_COUNT will take care of countable things - also with no units. Otherwise, anything else with no units I think will end up being a DV_PROPORTION - is we think of proportion as the idea of relative amount, how much of a total, then it is quite a wide concept that is likely to cover many situations. Sam and I believe your assumption is pretty safe at the moment. Understood, the proportion data type makes a lot more sense than the DV_QUANTITY_RATIO which allowed a lot of different quantifiable data types. There is no need to make things more complicated than they are and the simplification with DV_PROPORTION is great. If you have a look at the blood film archetype (here: http://my.openehr.org/wsvn/knowledge/archetypes/dev/adl/openehr/ehr/entry/observation/openEHR-EHR-OBSERVATION.blood_film.v1.adl?op=filerev=0sc=0 http://my.openehr.org/wsvn/knowledge/archetypes/dev/adl/openehr/ehr/entry/observation/openEHR-EHR-OBSERVATION.blood_film.v1.adl?op=filerev=0sc=0) you will see that the elements named 'Packed cell volume (PCV)' and 'Plateletcrit' are quantity data types with empty units, but maybe they could be changed to proportion data types instead? If not, then the specification of C_QUANTITY_ITEM must be changed. Sam - I imagine this is right - can you check this? Although we have not yet uploaded cleaner archetypes with all the changes everyone wants, we have nearly done all the changes to the tools, and the next generation of archetypes on the openEHR website should address everything. After that we should be able to proceed faster, since I think we will have removed all the anomalies in tools with respect to the specification, and also fixed a few anomalies in the specfication. It would be great if the archetypes could be updated soon. Could I get a listing of the changes so I can update the Java archetype editor accordingly? Regards, Mattias ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical
Templates and archetypes-Prise de Contact
Bonjour, Votre message (renvoi automatique ) bi lingue .. sezmble indiquer que vous ?tes un peu francophone ( et teamlog ?) Je suis ? l'initiative d'un projet visant ? mettre sur le site openehr.org ( en accord avec T Baele) une version en fran?ais des documents qui sont surtout en anglais . Je fais appel ? toutes les competences et bonne volont? , a titre b?n?vole , susceptible de donner un peu de leur temps pour realiser une traduction fran?aise .. Si vous maitrisez parfaitement l'anglais et le fran?ais .. vous ?tes la perle rare .. que je recherche .. Seriez vous interess?e ? Bien cordialement Dr R LONJON Selon Sandrine VILLAEYS svi at teamlog.com: Je suis en cong?s jusqu'au mercredi 2 novembre inclus. I'm in vacation until the 2nd of November, 2005 included. Sandrine Villaeys - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org -- - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
Templates and archetypes-Prise de Contact
Hi All, Thank you Thomas for the translation and explanations!!! My message would not have to appear it on the list...who is in English language It is a mistake.. (of recipient) I ask you to accept my apologies Dr LONJON Selon Thomas Beale Thomas.Beale at OceanInformatics.biz: For the non French speakers here (most of the group) - I will quickly translate so that no-one feels uncomfortable with stuff they can't read on this list! Dr Lonjon is simply looking for some help amongst francophone openEHR members who could help with translating the openEHR documents into french. (for the francophones reading this, probably best to organise such things with Dr Lonjon directly, or stick to english as far as possible in this list; thanks). - thomas beale Dr LONJON Roger wrote: Bonjour, Votre message (renvoi automatique ) bi lingue .. sezmble indiquer que vous ?tes un peu francophone ( et teamlog ?) Je suis ? l'initiative d'un projet visant ? mettre sur le site openehr.org ( en accord avec T Baele) une version en fran?ais des documents qui sont surtout en anglais . Je fais appel ? toutes les competences et bonne volont? , a titre b?n?vole , susceptible de donner un peu de leur temps pour realiser une traduction fran?aise .. Si vous maitrisez parfaitement l'anglais et le fran?ais .. vous ?tes la perle rare .. que je recherche .. Seriez vous interess?e ? Bien cordialement Dr R LONJON Selon Sandrine VILLAEYS svi at teamlog.com: Je suis en cong?s jusqu'au mercredi 2 novembre inclus. I'm in vacation until the 2nd of November, 2005 included. Sandrine Villaeys - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org -- - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org -- ___ CTO Ocean Informatics (http://www.OceanInformatics.biz) Research Fellow, University College London (http://www.chime.ucl.ac.uk) Chair Architectural Review Board, openEHR (http://www.openEHR.org) - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org -- - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
Issue 1
Hi all, the exercise of medicine is an art. This is not an exact science as the physics. With the biology, the anatomo-pathology, the x'ray explorations and R.M.Imaging, the physician gets information that are validated. They are validated because there was physical signal registration that was digital, pictures in RMI. These pictures, as blades of microscope, can be reread, in the time by other physicians. They have a statute of data validated by the physician and therefore publishable in the file of cares of the sick. The diagnosis makes by the physician is the result of a reasoning, from one wholes of information that it to on his patient. One teaches it to students future physicians. The diagnosis is sometimes fast, but often it asks for a delay of several days weeks or years!! or never !! Hypoth?seses, elaborate by the physician, are only some likely, probable information. In France, there is an agreement to say that it is about personal Notes that are not validated.and what are the property of the physician. They are not therefore publishable and especially no opposable in judicial proc?s case. In short according to Shannon (theory of information), too much information, no precise, mask the good information to take a decision. Distressed for my English!! Dr R LONJON France - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
status of BitKeeper in openEHR
Hello Thomas !! You have big problems !! with bitKeeper ?? CMS ?? see CPS ( in french) www.nuxeo.com Il existe CPS ( un bon produit sous ZOPE et Python) qui permet de la publication et du travail ccoperatif sur les documents . Avez vous perdu ou non lu mes messages pr?c?dents ?? qui sont sans r?ponse de votre part . Amiti?s Dr R LONJON France Selon Thomas Beale thomas at deepthought.com.au: Dear all, BitMover Inc has recently decided to withdraw its open license, and we are going to be forced to change our CM system for openEHR. This is a huge disappointment, since BitKeeper really is the rolls-royce application in its class, and is ideally suited to open development. However, they have made a decision, and given some leeway for people like us to change. I am not 100% sure of what you will be experiencing currently if you try to do a pull with your current copy of BK; if you are experiencing problems, please let us know. Some people may be thinking told you so, but as a quick defence of our choice I would note: - we placed quite some weight on Linus Torvalds' choice of BK 2 years ago, and also some other large open source projects - we started using BK in openEHR at the end of 1993. THe most likely alternative, Subversion, was much less mature then - the choice has absolutely minimised our manual work in CM for the period we have had it. We will most likely move to subversion, and set up a subversion server on openEHR.org. Subversion is essentially the new CVS and handles moves and renames properly, and also has some semblance of change sets. The biomedical engineering group at the university of Valencia where I have been for the last couple of days have been using it for a while and report no problems, and showed me integrations with Eclipse and JBuilder. (Not sure if refactoring inside those tools does the right things to Subversion, but we'll test that). Unless anyone in the community has some strong reason or evidence why subversion would not be a good choice, we will migrate in the next few weeks. We cannot guarantee that all interior versions of openEHR repositories will be kept intact when migrating the files, but we will do our best. We will announce further details as we know them. - thomas beale -- ___ CTO Ocean Informatics (http://www.OceanInformatics.biz) Research Fellow, University College London (http://www.chime.ucl.ac.uk) Chair Architectural Review Board, openEHR (http://www.openEHR.org) - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org -- - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
The Uncertainty Decision was: Dr R LONJON Confidence indicator !
Hello, I read opinions expressed on the topic. This question is important in France. The government took the decision that all citizen is going to have an electronic medical file.personal (DMP acronym) In principle all physicians with the authorization of the patient will have an access to this medical file for me it is about a medical file published a little like a weblog (to private and controlled acc?s) It is completely different of the electronic medical file that every physician must create and hold up to date for his/her/its patient in his/her/its cabinet. we call it the software profession.( logiciel m?tier in french ) This DMP should receive information exported from the software profession of the physician. The difficulty is to decide: 1 - what information must be published, 2 - this information is it reliable, so that another physician can use him and not to ask for a new exam 3 - if the physician producer of information, has a space of liberty, so that his/her/its responsibility implication is not systematically.? The solution would be can be to differentiate well: 1 - an information validated by the physician and that gives him the opposable information statute. He/it accepts to hire his/her/its responsibility. It is an information that is certified by documents as the imagery, the biopsy, the biologic analyses. 2 - an information proposed by the physician and that gives him the likely, possible information statute, but of which the level of certainty is not sufficient to have the opposable information statute. In this case the responsibility of the physician, be able to not be put in reason, while using this information no validated like proof. It is a legislative and legal probl?me, that is different of a computer analysis, but that is real. Indulgence for my English and thank you. Dr R LONJON France Selon Gerard Freriks gfrer at luna.nl: Sam, I agree. Suggestion In otherwords any clinical (or non-clinical) concept model must be able to express the view of the author about certainty. 3 states are sufficient for starters: likely (as default) not-likely certain When a person attaches new information to the EHR and is of the opinion that whole or parts of a received extract (or EHR) need an other qualifyer then via versioning he must be able to annotate this by adding his beliefs about certainty. Gerard -- private -- Gerard Freriks, arts Huigsloterdijk 378 2158 LR Buitenkaag The Netherlands +31 252 544896 +31 654 792800 On 27 Apr 2005, at 23:25, Sam Heard wrote: Arild and Tim This is clearly an issue. In the CIP project the group wanted to be able to say that a diagnosis was a working diagnosis. We have archetyped a number of concepts that I think will enable the clinician to express these levels of uncertainty without resorting to confidence ratings on all entries in the record. Arild has shown that you could not possibly do a mastectomy without rating your certainty at 100% - or you will be sued. And not treating a pneumonia in a newborn with a certainty of only 20% will probably get you in trouble. These sort of explicit ratings are - in my opinion - very problematic. The solution lies in the recording constructs used for many years: 1. To express differential diagnoses (with or without probabilities) and to note key excluded diagnoses as well. 2. To express a diagnosis as a problem (such as lump in left breast) even if the likelihood of cancer is 100% clinically until the histology is returned. 3. To be able to label a diagnosis as a working diagnosis - ie it is likely enough to warrant the current management - but not certain. Appendicitis is a good example. So the archetypes for problem, problem-diagnosis (specialised) and differential diagnosis should meet these needs. Comments? Sam -- - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
Dr R LONJON Confidence indicator !
hello philippe and thomas, excuse me to intervene, in English of bad quality. in medicine for me, a result must be validated and must be signed by the producer. This result is therefore automatically a total confidence level. It is a very important notion on the legal plan when these results are put to disposition on a shared medical file (server web) Inversely if this result is approximate, with a coefficient of mistake importing, it is not about a validated data and therefore publishable, because consequences in r?ponsabilit? for their author are unforeseeable if the patient carries complaint. I am unaware of this aspect of the problem so enters in your reflection. Cordially Dr R LONJON france Selon Thomas Beale thomas at deepthought.com.au: Philippe AMELINE wrote: Hi Koray, Don't you think that Null is not a singularity (I mean an isolated point), but the extreme value of a linear cursor we could name validity or confidence. To give a matter of fact example, I could say that : I can provide a value without any comment : I am confident in the quality level of the measurement process I can provide a value saying that an average (or poor) level of quality must be noticed when using this information I can decide not to provide a value and explain why Hi Philippe, our analysis in GEHR/openEHR has always been that confidence are null-flavour are two different things: - null / data quality - indicates that some datum was not obtainable - confidence is likelihood of being correct a datum is, in the opinion of the health care professional (or maybe someone else); it can only be set when there is a value - thomas - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org -- - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
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hi, If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org ( Unsubscribe you from this list !! ) regard's Selon Minal Thakkar mthakkar at siu.edu: Unsubscribe me from this list mthakkar at siu.edu - If you have any questions about using this list, please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
