Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Yes, just take a look at the legal suit against Google. It all started from the open-source Android project. And if you're talking about ROI, and this involves Google, there's all reasons for Oracle to go for it. So, I'd imagine another Google (or some monster company with deep pockets) using OpenIndiana/Illumos in future, and there you go... another setback for open source. This could very well be the scenario. A company as renowned as Apple might someday replace their operating system with Illumos, you never know. As mentioned before, best to put this matter to rest permanently. On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: > > On Dec 27, 2011, at 5:15 AM, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote: > > >> > >> Best course of action is to ignore it, don't look at it, and especially > >> don't download it. > >> > > > > What kind of hysteria is this I have no idea! Even if you look at the > > code and use it, how can one prove that you have actually stolen code? > > It comes from years of watching various patterns of behavior of several > companies, Oracle included, in the tech sector and both related and > unrelated lawsuits play out in the US legal system. I'm in the US and view > things through that perspective. > > The bottom line is that anyone can bring suit against anyone for just > about anything, and in civil matters especially, unlike criminal, it's not > presumed innocent until proven guilty. As a result, right or wrong, > sometimes the innocent party is left with the sometimes much more difficult > task of proving they didn't do something. Plus, these types of legal > matters can be long and drawn out and extremely expensive - look how long > Caldera/SCO has been able to drag out the Linux related lawsuits. That's > time and money few open source projects have or can remotely afford to lose. > > > There are many cases where people working independently have found the > > same solutions to identical problems! > > Yes, that's true, but that's not really the point. The point is just the > whiff of someone using that code to copy functionality into another project > could be enough to start a legal chain of events that effectively dooms or > severely cripples that project. > > Until officially acknowledged that it's a legitimate release, the safest > and most prudent course of action is to steer well clear of that code drop. > Do I like it? No. But from a risk to benefit relationship, the risk is just > too great for the potential benefit, and so it's best to err on the side of > caution. > > > Not to mention that this code > > does not contain anything that can be classified as innovation! > > I'm sure Oracle would beg to differ. Let's not give them reason to make > that difference of opinion a legal argument. > > Greg > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Dec 27, 2011, at 5:15 AM, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote: >> >> Best course of action is to ignore it, don't look at it, and especially >> don't download it. >> > > What kind of hysteria is this I have no idea! Even if you look at the > code and use it, how can one prove that you have actually stolen code? It comes from years of watching various patterns of behavior of several companies, Oracle included, in the tech sector and both related and unrelated lawsuits play out in the US legal system. I'm in the US and view things through that perspective. The bottom line is that anyone can bring suit against anyone for just about anything, and in civil matters especially, unlike criminal, it's not presumed innocent until proven guilty. As a result, right or wrong, sometimes the innocent party is left with the sometimes much more difficult task of proving they didn't do something. Plus, these types of legal matters can be long and drawn out and extremely expensive - look how long Caldera/SCO has been able to drag out the Linux related lawsuits. That's time and money few open source projects have or can remotely afford to lose. > There are many cases where people working independently have found the > same solutions to identical problems! Yes, that's true, but that's not really the point. The point is just the whiff of someone using that code to copy functionality into another project could be enough to start a legal chain of events that effectively dooms or severely cripples that project. Until officially acknowledged that it's a legitimate release, the safest and most prudent course of action is to steer well clear of that code drop. Do I like it? No. But from a risk to benefit relationship, the risk is just too great for the potential benefit, and so it's best to err on the side of caution. > Not to mention that this code > does not contain anything that can be classified as innovation! I'm sure Oracle would beg to differ. Let's not give them reason to make that difference of opinion a legal argument. Greg ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/26/11 14:15, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: (Many people took contact with them, they know that the code is out, but they are not acting against it). Do not make the same mistake as the Ars headline and confuse not talking to you about it as not caring about it or not doing anything about it. Oracle does many many things you will never hear about. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/26/11 08:21, Nikola M wrote: I know there must be reluctance of accepting that Solaris11 released code is truly under CDDL (for parts that are) . But under what license could it be, since Solaris11 is derived code from CDDL-licensed Opensolaris? Under the new license Oracle chose to release it under, as allowed by either owning the copyrights or having signed agreements with the other copyright owners. Nothing in the CDDL says that anyone who chooses to release code under the CDDL is promising to release all future versions of the code under the CDDL as well - Sun always talked about having a closed, commercial release of Solaris 11 some day alongside OpenSolaris. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Frankly, I don't see why anybody would even be tempted to look at the new code. Most of the people who actually worked on the features that made Solaris unique have moved to companies within the OI/Illumos ecosystem. Various reports by news sites seem to indicate that there's not much exciting in the leaked code anyway. Mike ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/27/11 01:44 PM, Gary Driggs wrote: > Any more than they already are? Budget conscious orgs already have > many free alternatives so that argument falls flat. Even Oracle offers > Linux with their x86 server sales. If they're trying /that/ hard to > push Solaris 11, why sell Oracle Linux at all? Would suing a couple of > fledgling open source projects really send droves of new Solaris 11 > licensees to Oracle? Whiskey tango foxtrot indeed. I also think that this matter is too blown out of proportions. One thing is sure by now, that community does not believe Oracle. Kind of trust that is needed to be established toward Oracle, that would help Oracle being more prosperous and respected is made with Positive announcements and actions. Solaris11 code is there, so people can not say anymore for S11 it is closed source. And wither it is CDDL or not, will be proven in time. Oracle might never address this with announcement. It will be good for them if they do, but they just might not. That leaves us with the S11 code that is visible. So Oracle can pull from Illumos code they might like to import in Solaris11 (their code is released) and Illumos will not import any code from Solaris11 unless Oracle gives positive announcement. That is fine with me, and now let's go back to improving Openindiana and Illumos. Just one thing I think is wrong with idea of ignoring Oracle S11 code is not to even look at it. I think - if it is there, Look at it if you want it to see it as a blueprint for compatibility implementation. Those who develop, contribute and share their ideas and findings have ability to give service and products to other people and get payed for it. Who is developing - wins. So lets, use Illumos and Openindiana, report bugs, advocate, talk about things we would like to have, develop , learn and use it to make services that might help us all living and steering our lives and companies in software that is better for ourselves. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Dec 27, 2011, at 4:08 AM, Dmitry Kozhinov wrote: > If Oracle would succeed in shutting down OpenSolaris-derived projects (other > than Sol11), people may start buying Sol11. Here's ROI. Any more than they already are? Budget conscious orgs already have many free alternatives so that argument falls flat. Even Oracle offers Linux with their x86 server sales. If they're trying /that/ hard to push Solaris 11, why sell Oracle Linux at all? Would suing a couple of fledgling open source projects really send droves of new Solaris 11 licensees to Oracle? Why do people have this impression that corporations are staffed at all levels by mustache twisting villains? Have you met your local Oracle reps recently? How about your local Microsoft reps? Cisco? IBM? Intel? Ask them about their kids, their next vacation, and their current plans for world domination? Seriously, whiskey tango foxtrot? -Gary ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
> > Best course of action is to ignore it, don't look at it, and especially > don't download it. > What kind of hysteria is this I have no idea! Even if you look at the code and use it, how can one prove that you have actually stolen code? There are many cases where people working independently have found the same solutions to identical problems! Not to mention that this code does not contain anything that can be classified as innovation! A.S. PS Some years ago, I legally got a copy of the source code of Solaris 8. It was almost impossible to use it! So I guess the same applies to this archive. -- Apostolos Syropoulos Xanthi, Greece ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
If Oracle would succeed in shutting down OpenSolaris-derived projects (other than Sol11), people may start buying Sol11. Here's ROI. > But launching a legal attack against individuals or projects that have > little to no money to hire legal counsel is not a sound business > practice. What's the ROI for them & their stock holders? ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Dec 27, 2011, at 2:19 AM, "Joshua M. Clulow" wrote: > You can pretty much guarantee that the only time this will ever be publicly > addressed, if indeed it ever is at all, will be in the form of legal > proceedings. Against who/m? Torrent users/sites? Mailing lists? Open source projects? There's certainly a lot of panic about this that I don't feel is founded in rational thinking. In fact, it sounds a lot like FUD. Perhaps anyone that gives a damn at Oracle knows that once released, code can't be unreleased. Cisco realized that when their PIX firewall source was stolen and released in the wild. They just routed around it by rewriting their next release from scratch & enhanced their security procedures. Perhaps Oracle will do the same. But launching a legal attack against individuals or projects that have little to no money to hire legal counsel is not a sound business practice. What's the ROI for them & their stock holders? Very little unless they find significant evidence of their intellectual property being used for profit by some entity with enough cash worth going after. So please calm down, people. Also, if you're a contributing developer, please steer away from the source released since there may be IP in there that's patented or protected by copyright. In other words, don't be stupid & don't panic. -Gary ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 27 December 2011 21:11, Daniel Kho wrote: > Well, I'm pretty sure Oracle knows this by now. If they don't issue a press > release (or an order, etc.) on this anytime soon, then I smell fish. It > could very well be that it is part of Oracle's official strategy to trap > open-source projects like Illumos/OI. I am entirely certain that a statistically significant number of people within Oracle are aware of the leak. It's been in the press, for goodness sake. Unlike Soylent Green, however, Oracle is not people. It's a corporation; one with a firmly established behaviour pattern, if not iron-clad policy, of clandestine dealings and abject silence. You can pretty much guarantee that the only time this will ever be publicly addressed, if indeed it ever is at all, will be in the form of legal proceedings. > Let's wait and see if Orcl says anything within this week. Silence on their > part could very well mean it's a trap. > Anyhow, it's best to stay away from that code. It's biohazard as Robin > said, until proven otherwise. It's not only best, it is (as has been stated emphatically already) absolutely vital to steer clear if you wish to contribute to illumos (or OpenIndiana) in the future. I think we've covered this in just about every possible phrasing by now, and it would be best to lay it to rest permanently. No good can come from the leak itself, or from talking about it any more. Cheers. -- Joshua M. Clulow UNIX Admin/Developer http://blog.sysmgr.org ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Well, I'm pretty sure Oracle knows this by now. If they don't issue a press release (or an order, etc.) on this anytime soon, then I smell fish. It could very well be that it is part of Oracle's official strategy to trap open-source projects like Illumos/OI. Let's wait and see if Orcl says anything within this week. Silence on their part could very well mean it's a trap. Anyhow, it's best to stay away from that code. It's biohazard as Robin said, until proven otherwise. On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: > I seriously doubt this was a deliberate trojan horse release from Oracle. > For one if that were ever proven it could be a game changer in court wrt > trade secrets etc. > > More likely this was released by someone who did not have authority to > release it. > > That still doesn't eliminate the risk to oi/illumos if someone knowingly > puts code from that solaris 11 code, even flagged as cddl, in to illumos. > All it takes is for Oracle to start taking action against usage from that > drop and by then the code tree and those working with it are tainted. Once > tainted it is very hard to clean it up again. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Robin Axelsson" > To: > Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked? > Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 3:50 pm > > > I think fears that this might be a ruse on Oracle's side to put > OI/Illumos in trouble are probably healthy to have. Probably the best > course of action is to treat the source as a piece of biohazard while > doing absolutely nothing until we see an official reaction from Oracle. > All I was trying to say on this thread was at least pretend to give them > the benefit of the doubt and put a cheesy smile on the face. > > After all it is difficult for anyone who is framed as evil or a criminal > to do good or redeem oneself. Maybe Oracle will decide to cooperate with > the OI/Illumos folks some day in the future. So it would be a shame if > too much of badmouthing, calumny and slander would put a slight pall on > such a cooperation in the future. > > On 2011-12-26 23:15, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: > > Oracle has rights over their code and trademarks, but as well > > responsibilities. > > > > The code could only be distributed by someone who was granted clearance > to > > the code (someone with a contractual relationship with Oracle). > > > > Oracle is allowing the continuation of the circumstances that are > > distributing the code across the Internet (Many people took contact with > > them, they know that the code is out, but they are not acting against > it). > > If this would be the breach of a trade secret they would have the power > and > > duty to prevent it from spreading in the net. > > > > Code marked with Oracle's trademarks went in the public domain with CDDL > > headers. If the CDDL headers were misused, they should correct them, or > > remove the files from the public domain. No one but Oracle has the duty > to > > protect the right use of the code released under their trademarks. > > > > In my modest opinion Oracle is liable itself for the distribution of the > > code under CDDL headers, no matter what is the protocol usually followed > in > > official releases. The code is in the public domain, uses their > trademarks, > > and contains legal guidelines how to use it. Oracle has responsabilities > > over the 3 facts. > > > > My personal guess would be to put in contrast (file by file) the former > > Opensolaris code with the data that was released. If the code is marked > as > > CDDL in both, and the data has sufficient similarities, I would simply > use > > it following the CDDL norms. > > > > Maybe it could be a good idea to ask Oracle to say if they have something > > against it. I would just formulate the question so they have to respond, > > and send it to sufficient addressees. > > > > I am not an OI developer, neither a layer, I am just dropping ideas as > > others do... > > > > Please correct me if I am wrong... > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Gregory Youngblood > > wrote: > > > >> Oracle owns copyright they don't have to follow cddl if they choose not > to. > >> > >> Irrelevant if these files have cddl license stamped on them. Could have > >> been done by anyone. Until or if this is officially recognized by > Oracle as > >> an official release it is poison fruit. Anything or one that looks at > this > >> and incorporates
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
I seriously doubt this was a deliberate trojan horse release from Oracle. For one if that were ever proven it could be a game changer in court wrt trade secrets etc. More likely this was released by someone who did not have authority to release it. That still doesn't eliminate the risk to oi/illumos if someone knowingly puts code from that solaris 11 code, even flagged as cddl, in to illumos. All it takes is for Oracle to start taking action against usage from that drop and by then the code tree and those working with it are tainted. Once tainted it is very hard to clean it up again. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: "Robin Axelsson" To: Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked? Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 3:50 pm I think fears that this might be a ruse on Oracle's side to put OI/Illumos in trouble are probably healthy to have. Probably the best course of action is to treat the source as a piece of biohazard while doing absolutely nothing until we see an official reaction from Oracle. All I was trying to say on this thread was at least pretend to give them the benefit of the doubt and put a cheesy smile on the face. After all it is difficult for anyone who is framed as evil or a criminal to do good or redeem oneself. Maybe Oracle will decide to cooperate with the OI/Illumos folks some day in the future. So it would be a shame if too much of badmouthing, calumny and slander would put a slight pall on such a cooperation in the future. On 2011-12-26 23:15, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: > Oracle has rights over their code and trademarks, but as well > responsibilities. > > The code could only be distributed by someone who was granted clearance to > the code (someone with a contractual relationship with Oracle). > > Oracle is allowing the continuation of the circumstances that are > distributing the code across the Internet (Many people took contact with > them, they know that the code is out, but they are not acting against it). > If this would be the breach of a trade secret they would have the power and > duty to prevent it from spreading in the net. > > Code marked with Oracle's trademarks went in the public domain with CDDL > headers. If the CDDL headers were misused, they should correct them, or > remove the files from the public domain. No one but Oracle has the duty to > protect the right use of the code released under their trademarks. > > In my modest opinion Oracle is liable itself for the distribution of the > code under CDDL headers, no matter what is the protocol usually followed in > official releases. The code is in the public domain, uses their trademarks, > and contains legal guidelines how to use it. Oracle has responsabilities > over the 3 facts. > > My personal guess would be to put in contrast (file by file) the former > Opensolaris code with the data that was released. If the code is marked as > CDDL in both, and the data has sufficient similarities, I would simply use > it following the CDDL norms. > > Maybe it could be a good idea to ask Oracle to say if they have something > against it. I would just formulate the question so they have to respond, > and send it to sufficient addressees. > > I am not an OI developer, neither a layer, I am just dropping ideas as > others do... > > Please correct me if I am wrong... > > > > On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Gregory Youngblood > wrote: > >> Oracle owns copyright they don't have to follow cddl if they choose not to. >> >> Irrelevant if these files have cddl license stamped on them. Could have >> been done by anyone. Until or if this is officially recognized by Oracle as >> an official release it is poison fruit. Anything or one that looks at this >> and incorporates it into any projects risks the destruction of that >> project. Something I am sure Oracle wouldn't mind happening to illumos or >> openindiana. >> >> This is no different than someone stealing Windows code, slapping gpl >> licenses on the code and releasing it. They were not legally authorized to >> put that license on that code and release it so it does not count and in >> court it would not be recognized. Same as a locksmith making an extra copy >> of your housekey and giving it to someone saying tale anything you want. >> >> Best course of action is to ignore it, don't look at it, and especially >> don't download it. >> >> Greg >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone >> >> - Reply message - >> From: "Nikola M" >> To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana"> Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked? >> Date:
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
I think fears that this might be a ruse on Oracle's side to put OI/Illumos in trouble are probably healthy to have. Probably the best course of action is to treat the source as a piece of biohazard while doing absolutely nothing until we see an official reaction from Oracle. All I was trying to say on this thread was at least pretend to give them the benefit of the doubt and put a cheesy smile on the face. After all it is difficult for anyone who is framed as evil or a criminal to do good or redeem oneself. Maybe Oracle will decide to cooperate with the OI/Illumos folks some day in the future. So it would be a shame if too much of badmouthing, calumny and slander would put a slight pall on such a cooperation in the future. On 2011-12-26 23:15, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: Oracle has rights over their code and trademarks, but as well responsibilities. The code could only be distributed by someone who was granted clearance to the code (someone with a contractual relationship with Oracle). Oracle is allowing the continuation of the circumstances that are distributing the code across the Internet (Many people took contact with them, they know that the code is out, but they are not acting against it). If this would be the breach of a trade secret they would have the power and duty to prevent it from spreading in the net. Code marked with Oracle's trademarks went in the public domain with CDDL headers. If the CDDL headers were misused, they should correct them, or remove the files from the public domain. No one but Oracle has the duty to protect the right use of the code released under their trademarks. In my modest opinion Oracle is liable itself for the distribution of the code under CDDL headers, no matter what is the protocol usually followed in official releases. The code is in the public domain, uses their trademarks, and contains legal guidelines how to use it. Oracle has responsabilities over the 3 facts. My personal guess would be to put in contrast (file by file) the former Opensolaris code with the data that was released. If the code is marked as CDDL in both, and the data has sufficient similarities, I would simply use it following the CDDL norms. Maybe it could be a good idea to ask Oracle to say if they have something against it. I would just formulate the question so they have to respond, and send it to sufficient addressees. I am not an OI developer, neither a layer, I am just dropping ideas as others do... Please correct me if I am wrong... On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: Oracle owns copyright they don't have to follow cddl if they choose not to. Irrelevant if these files have cddl license stamped on them. Could have been done by anyone. Until or if this is officially recognized by Oracle as an official release it is poison fruit. Anything or one that looks at this and incorporates it into any projects risks the destruction of that project. Something I am sure Oracle wouldn't mind happening to illumos or openindiana. This is no different than someone stealing Windows code, slapping gpl licenses on the code and releasing it. They were not legally authorized to put that license on that code and release it so it does not count and in court it would not be recognized. Same as a locksmith making an extra copy of your housekey and giving it to someone saying tale anything you want. Best course of action is to ignore it, don't look at it, and especially don't download it. Greg Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: "Nikola M" To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" On 12/26/2011 07:31 AM, Nikola M wrote: Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? It's a trap that smells much worse than SCO's attempt to kill Linux via lawsuit. Stay away from it. You wouldn't want OpenIndiana or illumos to be tainted by it - if they are, they'll be sued into oblivion, and they will cease to exist. If Oracle releases the source to Solaris 11 through normal channels, then, by all means, have at it. But this isn't it. Well, surely Illumos will not use that code directly at first as you said. Until there are concerns such as you said. But nature of CDDL is that it provides protection for lawsuits aether for source that in under CDDL or for so called "patents" and it extends to derived work. If someone want its patents or exclusive rights it should not derive its OS (Solaris11) from code under Free software license that provides "open forever" clause. Point is, (and someone also said it) that only way Oracle can stop others for using CDDL-ed work and Oracle's derived work from Opensolaris is not to release it for some time. And that is exactly what Oracle did. It did not released updates on code for some time and once code is out it does not matter who made it available. Maybe Oracle would have legal trouble from someone if code is NOT p
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Oracle has rights over their code and trademarks, but as well responsibilities. The code could only be distributed by someone who was granted clearance to the code (someone with a contractual relationship with Oracle). Oracle is allowing the continuation of the circumstances that are distributing the code across the Internet (Many people took contact with them, they know that the code is out, but they are not acting against it). If this would be the breach of a trade secret they would have the power and duty to prevent it from spreading in the net. Code marked with Oracle's trademarks went in the public domain with CDDL headers. If the CDDL headers were misused, they should correct them, or remove the files from the public domain. No one but Oracle has the duty to protect the right use of the code released under their trademarks. In my modest opinion Oracle is liable itself for the distribution of the code under CDDL headers, no matter what is the protocol usually followed in official releases. The code is in the public domain, uses their trademarks, and contains legal guidelines how to use it. Oracle has responsabilities over the 3 facts. My personal guess would be to put in contrast (file by file) the former Opensolaris code with the data that was released. If the code is marked as CDDL in both, and the data has sufficient similarities, I would simply use it following the CDDL norms. Maybe it could be a good idea to ask Oracle to say if they have something against it. I would just formulate the question so they have to respond, and send it to sufficient addressees. I am not an OI developer, neither a layer, I am just dropping ideas as others do... Please correct me if I am wrong... On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: > Oracle owns copyright they don't have to follow cddl if they choose not to. > > Irrelevant if these files have cddl license stamped on them. Could have > been done by anyone. Until or if this is officially recognized by Oracle as > an official release it is poison fruit. Anything or one that looks at this > and incorporates it into any projects risks the destruction of that > project. Something I am sure Oracle wouldn't mind happening to illumos or > openindiana. > > This is no different than someone stealing Windows code, slapping gpl > licenses on the code and releasing it. They were not legally authorized to > put that license on that code and release it so it does not count and in > court it would not be recognized. Same as a locksmith making an extra copy > of your housekey and giving it to someone saying tale anything you want. > > Best course of action is to ignore it, don't look at it, and especially > don't download it. > > Greg > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone > > - Reply message - > From: "Nikola M" > To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" > > Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked? > Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 12:28 pm > > > Ray Arachelian wrote: > > On 12/26/2011 07:31 AM, Nikola M wrote: > >> Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, > >> besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? > >> > > It's a trap that smells much worse than SCO's attempt to kill Linux via > > lawsuit. Stay away from it. You wouldn't want OpenIndiana or illumos > > to be tainted by it - if they are, they'll be sued into oblivion, and > > they will cease to exist. > > > > If Oracle releases the source to Solaris 11 through normal channels, > > then, by all means, have at it. But this isn't it. > > Well, surely Illumos will not use that code directly at first as you said. > Until there are concerns such as you said. > > But nature of CDDL is that it provides protection for lawsuits aether > for source that in under CDDL or for so called "patents" and it extends > to derived work. If someone want its patents or exclusive rights it > should not derive its OS (Solaris11) from code under Free software > license that provides "open forever" clause. > > Point is, (and someone also said it) that only way Oracle can stop > others for using CDDL-ed work and Oracle's derived work from Opensolaris > is not to release it for some time. > And that is exactly what Oracle did. It did not released updates on code > for some time and once code is out > it does not matter who made it available. > Maybe Oracle would have legal trouble from someone if code is NOT > published by any mean. In this way Oracle is protected. > > Code is available, it is there, it is under CDDL because it is > opensolaris derived work and one can use it as every derived code that > came out from
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Oracle owns copyright they don't have to follow cddl if they choose not to. Irrelevant if these files have cddl license stamped on them. Could have been done by anyone. Until or if this is officially recognized by Oracle as an official release it is poison fruit. Anything or one that looks at this and incorporates it into any projects risks the destruction of that project. Something I am sure Oracle wouldn't mind happening to illumos or openindiana. This is no different than someone stealing Windows code, slapping gpl licenses on the code and releasing it. They were not legally authorized to put that license on that code and release it so it does not count and in court it would not be recognized. Same as a locksmith making an extra copy of your housekey and giving it to someone saying tale anything you want. Best course of action is to ignore it, don't look at it, and especially don't download it. Greg Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: "Nikola M" To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked? Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 12:28 pm Ray Arachelian wrote: > On 12/26/2011 07:31 AM, Nikola M wrote: >> Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, >> besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? >> > It's a trap that smells much worse than SCO's attempt to kill Linux via > lawsuit. Stay away from it. You wouldn't want OpenIndiana or illumos > to be tainted by it - if they are, they'll be sued into oblivion, and > they will cease to exist. > > If Oracle releases the source to Solaris 11 through normal channels, > then, by all means, have at it. But this isn't it. Well, surely Illumos will not use that code directly at first as you said. Until there are concerns such as you said. But nature of CDDL is that it provides protection for lawsuits aether for source that in under CDDL or for so called "patents" and it extends to derived work. If someone want its patents or exclusive rights it should not derive its OS (Solaris11) from code under Free software license that provides "open forever" clause. Point is, (and someone also said it) that only way Oracle can stop others for using CDDL-ed work and Oracle's derived work from Opensolaris is not to release it for some time. And that is exactly what Oracle did. It did not released updates on code for some time and once code is out it does not matter who made it available. Maybe Oracle would have legal trouble from someone if code is NOT published by any mean. In this way Oracle is protected. Code is available, it is there, it is under CDDL because it is opensolaris derived work and one can use it as every derived code that came out from any such free software / open source license that has requirement of publishing source code for derived work. Thing is, if it is not good thing for Illumos to use it, someone else might use it freely and make something out of it. Others concerned and frightened (majority I suppose) might not touch it as a precaution but to see is as a blueprint for constructing something compatible maybe, if compatibility with Oracle Solaris is needed in the future. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Ray Arachelian wrote: > On 12/26/2011 07:31 AM, Nikola M wrote: >> Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, >> besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? >> > It's a trap that smells much worse than SCO's attempt to kill Linux via > lawsuit. Stay away from it. You wouldn't want OpenIndiana or illumos > to be tainted by it - if they are, they'll be sued into oblivion, and > they will cease to exist. > > If Oracle releases the source to Solaris 11 through normal channels, > then, by all means, have at it. But this isn't it. Well, surely Illumos will not use that code directly at first as you said. Until there are concerns such as you said. But nature of CDDL is that it provides protection for lawsuits aether for source that in under CDDL or for so called "patents" and it extends to derived work. If someone want its patents or exclusive rights it should not derive its OS (Solaris11) from code under Free software license that provides "open forever" clause. Point is, (and someone also said it) that only way Oracle can stop others for using CDDL-ed work and Oracle's derived work from Opensolaris is not to release it for some time. And that is exactly what Oracle did. It did not released updates on code for some time and once code is out it does not matter who made it available. Maybe Oracle would have legal trouble from someone if code is NOT published by any mean. In this way Oracle is protected. Code is available, it is there, it is under CDDL because it is opensolaris derived work and one can use it as every derived code that came out from any such free software / open source license that has requirement of publishing source code for derived work. Thing is, if it is not good thing for Illumos to use it, someone else might use it freely and make something out of it. Others concerned and frightened (majority I suppose) might not touch it as a precaution but to see is as a blueprint for constructing something compatible maybe, if compatibility with Oracle Solaris is needed in the future. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/26/2011 07:31 AM, Nikola M wrote: > > Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, > besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? > It's a trap that smells much worse than SCO's attempt to kill Linux via lawsuit. Stay away from it. You wouldn't want OpenIndiana or illumos to be tainted by it - if they are, they'll be sued into oblivion, and they will cease to exist. If Oracle releases the source to Solaris 11 through normal channels, then, by all means, have at it. But this isn't it. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Ummm, Larry has been watching epic movies again! It is a legal Trojan horse!... how innovative!; they drop their own trade secrets marked as CDDL and wait for the unaware computer enthusiast to use it and sue him badly! He is truly worst than Gargamel... Well the only option he had to prevent anyone using the work built on the top of CDDL code was to keep it for himself... certainly sharing it in bittorrent was not a good idea. Larry, no, no, no... that was a silly thing to do. Considering the possibilities I would say that someone within Oracle shared the code, I don't see any reason why anyone would want to modify the code. Those might be just newer versions of stuff released previously... maybe someone should try to figure it out. Such a pretty girl... but... I know nothing about her past... ummm should I stay away from her?... well maybe not, maybe it is a better idea to meet her a bit better. On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > There is no way of knowing if the source has been altered or tampered with. > > Short of a cryptographically signed release or a statement from oracle, > best and safest option is to ignore it and stay far far away from the code. > > Jamon > > Nikola M wrote: > > >Open Indiana wrote: > >> It's like sneezing in a dark-room, now Oracle can wait outside to see > who > >> all catched the flue. > >> > >> ;-) > >Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, > >besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? > > > >Also CDDL is saying derived work holds the same license as previous CDDL > >work. That goes for Oracle Solaris 11. > > > >If Internally in Oracle, source is developed with CDDL headers and > >developing on top of already open and existing CDDL licensed code, then > >does it matter WHO released the code? > > > >Solaris11 It is derived work from Opensolaris, it is same-licensed, it > >is CDDL. > >And maybe Oracle just does not want to acknowledge publicly that Solaris > >11 is open product, like it was Opensolaris. > >Or it was planned at some later time to be publicized. > > > >*Best option is to develop Illumos separately but with S11 CDDL-ed code > >released it leaves Oracle the ability to import Illumos changes they > >like, because their S11 code is published. > > > >Anyway, one Oracle statement about S11 source that is marked with CDDL > >and released, might prove beneficial to Oracle and anyone else. > >Maybe Oracle did not want to make CDDL-derived work available, using its > >power of owning rights to Opensolaris code itself, > >but once CDDL-ed derived work is published, it stays as it is and it > >seems to me there is no coming back for Oracle, > >but to play with the crowd and acknowledge S11 is open source, under > >CDDL and use it to boost Solaris11 support and hardware sales. > >CDDL enforces its license on derived work on similar way Mozilla license > >and GPL licenses do. > >Maybe releasing the S11 code is best thing for Oracle, anyway. > > > > > >___ > >OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > >OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > >http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Jamon Camisso wrote: > There is no way of knowing if the source has been altered or tampered with. > > Short of a cryptographically signed release or a statement from oracle, best > and safest option is to ignore it and stay far far away from the code. > There is of course huge amount of work needed if someone wants to audit all code changes since Opensolaris to check does code include or not something bad inside. And Oracle signing the code will be great I suppose, because than source will be confirmed and will be known who to blame if something nasty is in the code. But Oracle knows that. They also know that there will be very few people brave to take Solaris11 source and make new distribution with it. (There already Illumos) And it will be hard from technological standpoint, for a start. And it is everything Oracle wants. They can take CDDL-ed contributions from Illumos and make reluctant all those wanting their enhancements from the Solaris to get in some other product. So to say in such a way, Solaris11 code release, no matter in what way release is done with CDDL code, is in favor of Oracle. Community already has Illumos and it is going it's way and Oracle lost the lead in Opensolaris continuation in favor of Illumos and Openindiana and other future distributions made on Illumos. This seems to me like Oracle quiet coming back - to the scene with new technologies in Solaris11 Oracle introduced since Opensolaris through to the Solaris11 release. Someone might think it could be harmful to Open source projects, but how actually CDDL released opensolaris fork, that Solaris11 is - could be bad? *Maybe it is great to be reluctant to introduce S11 code in illumos, but why not take a look at it and try to be compatible? More I think about it all, more I am thinking Oracle actually did what he needed to do stay afloat before making Solaris11 release based on Opensolaris code. They closed development because most of development relevant to them was coming from Oracle, anyway. And they did not want the hassle of maintaining Opensolaris community and be a center of outside development. And they wanted to make money on Solaris11 release, of course, sell more hardware and release the code only after Solaris 11 is out, to fulfill CDDL license, but with no need to spend their resources outside company. Oracle does not want to have anything with community of new users, contributors and collaborators , they want communities of well-paying customers. And one-way contributions in Solaris. I know there must be reluctance of accepting that Solaris11 released code is truly under CDDL (for parts that are) . But under what license could it be, since Solaris11 is derived code from CDDL-licensed Opensolaris? (now it is in open) ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
There is no way of knowing if the source has been altered or tampered with. Short of a cryptographically signed release or a statement from oracle, best and safest option is to ignore it and stay far far away from the code. Jamon Nikola M wrote: >Open Indiana wrote: >> It's like sneezing in a dark-room, now Oracle can wait outside to see who >> all catched the flue. >> >> ;-) >Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, >besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? > >Also CDDL is saying derived work holds the same license as previous CDDL >work. That goes for Oracle Solaris 11. > >If Internally in Oracle, source is developed with CDDL headers and >developing on top of already open and existing CDDL licensed code, then >does it matter WHO released the code? > >Solaris11 It is derived work from Opensolaris, it is same-licensed, it >is CDDL. >And maybe Oracle just does not want to acknowledge publicly that Solaris >11 is open product, like it was Opensolaris. >Or it was planned at some later time to be publicized. > >*Best option is to develop Illumos separately but with S11 CDDL-ed code >released it leaves Oracle the ability to import Illumos changes they >like, because their S11 code is published. > >Anyway, one Oracle statement about S11 source that is marked with CDDL >and released, might prove beneficial to Oracle and anyone else. >Maybe Oracle did not want to make CDDL-derived work available, using its >power of owning rights to Opensolaris code itself, >but once CDDL-ed derived work is published, it stays as it is and it >seems to me there is no coming back for Oracle, >but to play with the crowd and acknowledge S11 is open source, under >CDDL and use it to boost Solaris11 support and hardware sales. >CDDL enforces its license on derived work on similar way Mozilla license >and GPL licenses do. >Maybe releasing the S11 code is best thing for Oracle, anyway. > > >___ >OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list >OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org >http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Open Indiana wrote: > It's like sneezing in a dark-room, now Oracle can wait outside to see who > all catched the flue. > > ;-) Maybe it is truly CDDL for the parts marked like that, besides, why would Oracle keep CDDL headers if it is not CDDL anymore? Also CDDL is saying derived work holds the same license as previous CDDL work. That goes for Oracle Solaris 11. If Internally in Oracle, source is developed with CDDL headers and developing on top of already open and existing CDDL licensed code, then does it matter WHO released the code? Solaris11 It is derived work from Opensolaris, it is same-licensed, it is CDDL. And maybe Oracle just does not want to acknowledge publicly that Solaris 11 is open product, like it was Opensolaris. Or it was planned at some later time to be publicized. *Best option is to develop Illumos separately but with S11 CDDL-ed code released it leaves Oracle the ability to import Illumos changes they like, because their S11 code is published. Anyway, one Oracle statement about S11 source that is marked with CDDL and released, might prove beneficial to Oracle and anyone else. Maybe Oracle did not want to make CDDL-derived work available, using its power of owning rights to Opensolaris code itself, but once CDDL-ed derived work is published, it stays as it is and it seems to me there is no coming back for Oracle, but to play with the crowd and acknowledge S11 is open source, under CDDL and use it to boost Solaris11 support and hardware sales. CDDL enforces its license on derived work on similar way Mozilla license and GPL licenses do. Maybe releasing the S11 code is best thing for Oracle, anyway. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
My personal theory is the whole matter is being kept as quiet as possible by Oracle so that Larry can maintain the element of surprise when he attack the leaker's home with his MiG. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
That was a good article, tnks! I remember those estrange days when nothing was said about what happened to Opensolaris, somehow the silence reminds me of WWII; It makes more psychological damage to make someone disappear without telling a word, than executing him in public. I wonder if this thing we found in the torrent are the remains of it... maybe they are just teasing us. :-P History will tell. On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Gary wrote: > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > > > True, if anyone posts a single comment or thought about the code, all of > Oracle will hunt down this list > > and all its members! Even thinking about looking at that source code, is > thought crime! Beware! > > That's either tongue in cheek or more than a bit alarmist. Either way, > you don't have to open Pandora's torrent as someone else has already > looked for you and come up with this brief, high-level assessment: > > "... the 108MB tarball appears to contain most or all of the source > for the kernel of Solaris 11, based on our review of the code. While > the majority of the code in the archive is marked with the licensing > header for the Common Development and Distribution License, there is > also a significant amount of code and makefiles covered by Oracle and > other companies' copyrights that did not carry the CDDL, as well as > older code bearing Sun Microsystem's copyright in a directory of the > archive named 'closed.' > > That proprietary code includes the source for Solaris' kernel-level > cryptographic framework daemon, logical link control driver, and code > for mounting NFS filesystems. A significant portion of the code in > 'closed,' however, also carried the CDDL header; it's not clear if > Oracle intended to make this previously open code closed or not." > > q.v. > http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/12/disgruntled-employee-oracle-doesnt-seem-to-care-about-solaris-11-code-leak.ars > > I'm sure Ars' lawyers are standing by -- or rather, hanging nearby in > their hammocks, sipping their Mai Thais, and dreaming about fat sacks > of cash from St. Nicholas. > > -Gary > > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > True, if anyone posts a single comment or thought about the code, all of > Oracle will hunt down this list > and all its members! Even thinking about looking at that source code, is > thought crime! Beware! That's either tongue in cheek or more than a bit alarmist. Either way, you don't have to open Pandora's torrent as someone else has already looked for you and come up with this brief, high-level assessment: "... the 108MB tarball appears to contain most or all of the source for the kernel of Solaris 11, based on our review of the code. While the majority of the code in the archive is marked with the licensing header for the Common Development and Distribution License, there is also a significant amount of code and makefiles covered by Oracle and other companies' copyrights that did not carry the CDDL, as well as older code bearing Sun Microsystem's copyright in a directory of the archive named 'closed.' That proprietary code includes the source for Solaris' kernel-level cryptographic framework daemon, logical link control driver, and code for mounting NFS filesystems. A significant portion of the code in 'closed,' however, also carried the CDDL header; it's not clear if Oracle intended to make this previously open code closed or not." q.v. http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/12/disgruntled-employee-oracle-doesnt-seem-to-care-about-solaris-11-code-leak.ars I'm sure Ars' lawyers are standing by -- or rather, hanging nearby in their hammocks, sipping their Mai Thais, and dreaming about fat sacks of cash from St. Nicholas. -Gary ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Roy, I couldn't agree more... You all deserve a penance: Go back home and tell one hundred holy Larrys! On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: >> >> This seems potentially bad all the way around to me. Hopefully this >> >> turns out to be a real, officially blessed release and not a leak. >> >> >> > >> > It doesn't look to be official, since it does contain some closed >> > source >> > code but is mostly CDDL and even contains an OPENSOLARIS.LICENSE >> >> Sounds like you have looked at the code. If true, please do not post >> anything about it here. > > True, if anyone posts a single comment or thought about the code, all of > Oracle will hunt down this list and all its members! Even thinking about > looking at that source code, is thought crime! Beware! > > Vennlige hilsener / Best regards > > roy > -- > Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk > (+47) 97542685 > r...@karlsbakk.net > http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ > -- > I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det > er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av > idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og > relevante synonymer på norsk. > > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
> >> This seems potentially bad all the way around to me. Hopefully this > >> turns out to be a real, officially blessed release and not a leak. > >> > > > > It doesn't look to be official, since it does contain some closed > > source > > code but is mostly CDDL and even contains an OPENSOLARIS.LICENSE > > Sounds like you have looked at the code. If true, please do not post > anything about it here. True, if anyone posts a single comment or thought about the code, all of Oracle will hunt down this list and all its members! Even thinking about looking at that source code, is thought crime! Beware! Vennlige hilsener / Best regards roy -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 r...@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ -- I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
And on the heels of my cynicism is useful information from Alan. I'd just like to apologize if my comments offended or annoyed anyone working at Oracle, still doing doing Good Things. My cynicism and frustration wasn't meant to be directed at them, but at the Oracle organization's decisions in the past, and possibly future. cheers, Brian On 12/20/11 10:05 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: On 12/20/11 03:43, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The code comes together with legal guidelines how to use it... as long as those guidelines are followed, there is nothing wrong about it. If I take something you wrote and post it without your permission under a license you didn't approve it to be distributed under, I'm sure you'd agree there's something very wrong with that. I can't relicense Linux to CDDL by just throwing up a torrent of its sources with a bunch of CDDL notices in. Without any sort of Oracle statement that this is an intentional release, and with no links to it from an official Oracle site (including opensolaris.org), you have to assume it's unauthorized. [Just to be clear, I am *NOT* any sort of authorized Oracle spokesman and not issuing any statement on behalf of Oracle. I am simply an engineer with many years of experience dealing with software licensing around open source projects, offering my personal perspective. This is always true for things I post to mailing lists, but most especially true in this case.] This is not marked as classified or proprietary, Have you checked every file in it for such markings? Preparing the source releases is not a simple process, and if someone unfamiliar with that process was to just grab it, they might well include such files, either by mistake or malicious intent. Of course, you also have no guarantee that any file you find on an anonymous torrent is the actual unmodified source code, and has not been tampered with in any way to sneak in subtle back doors or other issues, or that it's the final product with all the showstopper bugs fixed. -- --- Brian Wilson, Solaris SE, UW-Madison DoIT Room 3114 CS&S608-263-8047 brian.wilson(a)doit.wisc.edu 'I try to save a life a day. Usually it's my own.' - John Crichton --- ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/20/11 03:43, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The code comes together with legal guidelines how to use it... as long as those guidelines are followed, there is nothing wrong about it. If I take something you wrote and post it without your permission under a license you didn't approve it to be distributed under, I'm sure you'd agree there's something very wrong with that. I can't relicense Linux to CDDL by just throwing up a torrent of its sources with a bunch of CDDL notices in. Without any sort of Oracle statement that this is an intentional release, and with no links to it from an official Oracle site (including opensolaris.org), you have to assume it's unauthorized. [Just to be clear, I am *NOT* any sort of authorized Oracle spokesman and not issuing any statement on behalf of Oracle. I am simply an engineer with many years of experience dealing with software licensing around open source projects, offering my personal perspective. This is always true for things I post to mailing lists, but most especially true in this case.] This is not marked as classified or proprietary, Have you checked every file in it for such markings? Preparing the source releases is not a simple process, and if someone unfamiliar with that process was to just grab it, they might well include such files, either by mistake or malicious intent. Of course, you also have no guarantee that any file you find on an anonymous torrent is the actual unmodified source code, and has not been tampered with in any way to sneak in subtle back doors or other issues, or that it's the final product with all the showstopper bugs fixed. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/20/11 08:13 AM, Robin Axelsson wrote: On 2011-12-20 13:24, Dave Koelmeyer wrote: On 12/21/11 12:43 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The most they can do is politely asking not to use it. Am I wrong? Yes. This is Oracle we're talking about here. I can't quite believe anyone is even seriously contemplating this. Perhaps it is best to wait and see what the people at Oracle will say or do. Maybe the leak came because the Solaris development didn't gain the momentum they desired or expected. If that's the case then maybe it might be possible to convince them to collaborate more closely and contribute more to the Illumos/OI project. There's no need to be more hostile than necessary. Friendly suggestion - google/search Oracle lawsuit open source. I got 1.22 million hits on google, though a lot are repeat news on Oracle suing Google about Android. Oracle *does* go after open source projects that they think are using code they shouldn't, the instant they come up with financial justification (i.e. it's worth more to them than it will cost), and sometimes even without it. Illumos exists in part to the fact that Oracle committed one of the nastiest anti-open source acts against OpenSolaris in trying to kill it. No matter how many times Larry says they're good with open source, and how many people and groups work there on open source things, the organization still sues and makes anti-open source decisions. There, got that bit of cynicism out of my system for the moment. Have a nice day! :) Brian 'opinions my own, etc, etc.' -- --- Brian Wilson, Solaris SE, UW-Madison DoIT Room 3114 CS&S608-263-8047 brian.wilson(a)doit.wisc.edu 'I try to save a life a day. Usually it's my own.' - John Crichton --- ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Tue, 2011-12-20 at 15:13 +0100, Robin Axelsson wrote:
> On 2011-12-20 13:24, Dave Koelmeyer wrote:
> > On 12/21/11 12:43 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote:
> >> The most they can do is politely asking not to use it.
> >>
> >> Am I wrong?
> >
> > Yes. This is Oracle we're talking about here. I can't quite believe
> > anyone is even seriously contemplating this.
> >
> Perhaps it is best to wait and see what the people at Oracle will say or
> do. Maybe the leak came because the Solaris development didn't gain the
> momentum they desired or expected.
>
> If that's the case then maybe it might be possible to convince them to
> collaborate more closely and contribute more to the Illumos/OI project.
> There's no need to be more hostile than necessary.
Ah, the young and naive. So cute. Goochi, goochi, goo. Time for
baby's nap...
See Christopher Chan's post when you wake up :-{
--
Regards-- Ken Gunderson
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 15:13, Robin Axelsson wrote: > Perhaps it is best to wait and see what the people at Oracle will say or do. Well, with the Friday the 13th memo, there were no comments from Oracle afterwards... -- Venlig hilsen / Kind regards Jeppe Toustrup (aka. Tenzer) ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 2011-12-20 13:24, Dave Koelmeyer wrote: On 12/21/11 12:43 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The most they can do is politely asking not to use it. Am I wrong? Yes. This is Oracle we're talking about here. I can't quite believe anyone is even seriously contemplating this. Perhaps it is best to wait and see what the people at Oracle will say or do. Maybe the leak came because the Solaris development didn't gain the momentum they desired or expected. If that's the case then maybe it might be possible to convince them to collaborate more closely and contribute more to the Illumos/OI project. There's no need to be more hostile than necessary. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 08:24 PM, Dave Koelmeyer wrote: On 12/21/11 12:43 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The most they can do is politely asking not to use it. Am I wrong? Yes. This is Larry we're talking about here. I can't quite believe anyone is even seriously contemplating risking his ire. There, fixed that for you. :-D ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/21/11 12:43 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The most they can do is politely asking not to use it. Am I wrong? Yes. This is Oracle we're talking about here. I can't quite believe anyone is even seriously contemplating this. -- Dave Koelmeyer http://blog.davekoelmeyer.co.nz ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Dec 20, 2011, "LinuxBSDos.com" wrote: > Sounds like you have looked at the code. If true, please do not post anything > about it here Yeah, no spoilers, man. The release notes & Oracle fora posters already told us that JumpStart, lu, nwam, SMC, wcadmin, Xsun, CDE, and sun4u architecture have all died mysterious deaths, that our hero, ZFS, took a job as a cryptographer with a shadow government that allegedly clones data, and a couple of neurotic & schizophrenic yet somehow familiar families of strangers led by IPS package manager, automated installer, & network virtualization have moved in to the suburbs where they've thoroughly frightened their Linux & BSD neighbors. Will ZFS continue his obvious affair with the cute demon down the lane? Will Larry & Linus finally admit their true love for each other? And what will become of poor old Mr. UltraSPARC II now that sexy, young Mr. SPARC T4 has moved to town? These questions — and many others — will be answered in the next episode of... All My Child Processes. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Oracle really knows how to earn the hearts of everyone... using bittorrent... how innovative! The code comes together with legal guidelines how to use it... as long as those guidelines are followed, there is nothing wrong about it. This is not marked as classified or proprietary, does it even have the level of clearance to be considered a leak? It is built on the top of opensource, it is not classified, therefore is not a leak. The channel how it was distributed is not the usual one (that might reflect an internal problem in Oracle, internal problems are to be solved internally, we have nothing to do with that), but no one but Oracle could had possibly released that code (intentionally or by an organizational malfunction). The most they can do is politely asking not to use it. Am I wrong? Is it worth to ask a lawyer? I assume that the code might have some good use... Br On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Mark wrote: > On 20/12/2011 6:29 a.m., Gregory Youngblood wrote: >> >> This seems potentially bad all the way around to me. Hopefully this turns >> out to be a real, officially blessed release and not a leak. >> > > It doesn't look to be official, since it does contain some closed source > code but is mostly CDDL and even contains an OPENSOLARIS.LICENSE > > > > > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
> On 20/12/2011 6:29 a.m., Gregory Youngblood wrote: >> This seems potentially bad all the way around to me. Hopefully this >> turns out to be a real, officially blessed release and not a leak. >> > > It doesn't look to be official, since it does contain some closed source > code but is mostly CDDL and even contains an OPENSOLARIS.LICENSE > Sounds like you have looked at the code. If true, please do not post anything about it here. -- Fini D. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 20/12/2011 6:29 a.m., Gregory Youngblood wrote: This seems potentially bad all the way around to me. Hopefully this turns out to be a real, officially blessed release and not a leak. It doesn't look to be official, since it does contain some closed source code but is mostly CDDL and even contains an OPENSOLARIS.LICENSE ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
It's like sneezing in a dark-room, now Oracle can wait outside to see who all catched the flue. ;-) -Original Message- From: Bill Sommerfeld [mailto:sommerf...@alum.mit.edu] Sent: maandag 19 december 2011 19:21 To: openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked? On 12/19/11 07:53, Chris Ridd wrote: > But what if the changed code in the leaked code was licensed under the CDDL. Would that make it OK to reuse outside of Oracle? You're asking for legal advice. Any legal advice you get on this list is worth less than what you paid for it. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 12/19/11 07:53, Chris Ridd wrote: But what if the changed code in the leaked code was licensed under the CDDL. Would that make it OK to reuse outside of Oracle? You're asking for legal advice. Any legal advice you get on this list is worth less than what you paid for it. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
Gregory, Must say, this was my first thought of it. It could be a fairly insidious way to 'infect' the process... Even without 20 years' experience in IP Law, it's easy to imagine lots of (unpleasant) discussion about 'Derivative Works'. Lou Picciano - Original Message - From: "Gregory Youngblood" To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 12:29:05 PM Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked? This seems potentially bad all the way around to me. Hopefully this turns out to be a real, officially blessed release and not a leak. Given the question as to the origin of this code drop, and the potential huge downside if it turns out to be a leak and not an official code drop, then I would say everyone in Illumos/OI and related communities are best steering clear of the code. Not even steering clear, but deliberately going out of the way to avoid looking at it or anything related to it. All it takes is someone that even accidentally has unclean hands from seeing the code and then later, perhaps unknowingly, coming up with an idea that is close enough to what was done in the leaked code to potentially doom or cause a major set back to the project(s). Even avoiding looking at the code is not an assurance that Oracle won't at some point later attempt to apply legal pressure to make things difficult by using the allegation of code from the leak being used without permission. Look how long SCO has managed to drag out it's battle with all things Linux, even after it was found not to own the copyrights. Hopefully steering clear of the code will decrease the chances of unfounded legal attacks later. In my opinion, if this is a code leak and not a release, it's a great disservice to everyone involved. Greg On Dec 19, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Jonathan Adams wrote: > it wouldn't need to be a disgruntled Oracle employee, they still deal > with Intel, and other manufacturers ... just needs to be someone with > access to the code and no emotional ties to Oracle. > > If code is tagged with the CDDL, can that code not be CDDL? if so a > third party with no involvement, or an automated system could remove > files from the archive that don't have the CDDL leaving only > Open-licensed code available. > > Jon > > On 19 December 2011 16:44, Michael Kerpan wrote: >> I'm assuming that a disgruntled employee made this dump out of >> frustration with the current situation. Still, given that the CDDL >> licenses on most files are almost certainly simply leftovers from the >> Sun era, the code is useless to OpenIndiana and not legally binding. >> I'd even go as far as to say that this is a BAD thing as there's now >> tempting code out there that if it accidentally made its way into OI >> or FreeBSD or any of the other projects using code from the >> OpenSolaris era could cause MAJOR legal problems for those projects. >> >> Mike >> >> ___ >> OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list >> OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org >> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
This seems potentially bad all the way around to me. Hopefully this turns out to be a real, officially blessed release and not a leak. Given the question as to the origin of this code drop, and the potential huge downside if it turns out to be a leak and not an official code drop, then I would say everyone in Illumos/OI and related communities are best steering clear of the code. Not even steering clear, but deliberately going out of the way to avoid looking at it or anything related to it. All it takes is someone that even accidentally has unclean hands from seeing the code and then later, perhaps unknowingly, coming up with an idea that is close enough to what was done in the leaked code to potentially doom or cause a major set back to the project(s). Even avoiding looking at the code is not an assurance that Oracle won't at some point later attempt to apply legal pressure to make things difficult by using the allegation of code from the leak being used without permission. Look how long SCO has managed to drag out it's battle with all things Linux, even after it was found not to own the copyrights. Hopefully steering clear of the code will decrease the chances of unfounded legal attacks later. In my opinion, if this is a code leak and not a release, it's a great disservice to everyone involved. Greg On Dec 19, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Jonathan Adams wrote: > it wouldn't need to be a disgruntled Oracle employee, they still deal > with Intel, and other manufacturers ... just needs to be someone with > access to the code and no emotional ties to Oracle. > > If code is tagged with the CDDL, can that code not be CDDL? if so a > third party with no involvement, or an automated system could remove > files from the archive that don't have the CDDL leaving only > Open-licensed code available. > > Jon > > On 19 December 2011 16:44, Michael Kerpan wrote: >> I'm assuming that a disgruntled employee made this dump out of >> frustration with the current situation. Still, given that the CDDL >> licenses on most files are almost certainly simply leftovers from the >> Sun era, the code is useless to OpenIndiana and not legally binding. >> I'd even go as far as to say that this is a BAD thing as there's now >> tempting code out there that if it accidentally made its way into OI >> or FreeBSD or any of the other projects using code from the >> OpenSolaris era could cause MAJOR legal problems for those projects. >> >> Mike >> >> ___ >> OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list >> OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org >> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
it wouldn't need to be a disgruntled Oracle employee, they still deal with Intel, and other manufacturers ... just needs to be someone with access to the code and no emotional ties to Oracle. If code is tagged with the CDDL, can that code not be CDDL? if so a third party with no involvement, or an automated system could remove files from the archive that don't have the CDDL leaving only Open-licensed code available. Jon On 19 December 2011 16:44, Michael Kerpan wrote: > I'm assuming that a disgruntled employee made this dump out of > frustration with the current situation. Still, given that the CDDL > licenses on most files are almost certainly simply leftovers from the > Sun era, the code is useless to OpenIndiana and not legally binding. > I'd even go as far as to say that this is a BAD thing as there's now > tempting code out there that if it accidentally made its way into OI > or FreeBSD or any of the other projects using code from the > OpenSolaris era could cause MAJOR legal problems for those projects. > > Mike > > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
I'm assuming that a disgruntled employee made this dump out of frustration with the current situation. Still, given that the CDDL licenses on most files are almost certainly simply leftovers from the Sun era, the code is useless to OpenIndiana and not legally binding. I'd even go as far as to say that this is a BAD thing as there's now tempting code out there that if it accidentally made its way into OI or FreeBSD or any of the other projects using code from the OpenSolaris era could cause MAJOR legal problems for those projects. Mike ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
according to the reports I listed, the general consensus is that it's licensed under CDDL ... but I haven't looked at it to confirm. Jon On 19 December 2011 15:53, Chris Ridd wrote: > > On 19 Dec 2011, at 14:38, Jonathan Adams wrote: > >> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?65756-Solaris-11-source-code-leaked >> >> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Oracle-Solaris-11-Kernel-Source-Leaked-241597.shtml >> >> Has this been "leaked"? do we want to try to look/keep well clear in >> order to see where ZFS changes are made with encryption, to enable >> support? > > I would suspect that it would be definitely something to avoid looking at, to > avoid any possibility of legal threats from Oracle. > > But what if the changed code in the leaked code was licensed under the CDDL. > Would that make it OK to reuse outside of Oracle? > > Chris > > ___ > OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list > OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 19 Dec 2011, at 14:38, Jonathan Adams wrote: > http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?65756-Solaris-11-source-code-leaked > > http://news.softpedia.com/news/Oracle-Solaris-11-Kernel-Source-Leaked-241597.shtml > > Has this been "leaked"? do we want to try to look/keep well clear in > order to see where ZFS changes are made with encryption, to enable > support? I would suspect that it would be definitely something to avoid looking at, to avoid any possibility of legal threats from Oracle. But what if the changed code in the leaked code was licensed under the CDDL. Would that make it OK to reuse outside of Oracle? Chris ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On 19.12.11. 15:38, Jonathan Adams wrote: > http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?65756-Solaris-11-source-code-leaked > > http://news.softpedia.com/news/Oracle-Solaris-11-Kernel-Source-Leaked-241597.shtml > > Has this been "leaked"? do we want to try to look/keep well clear in > order to see where ZFS changes are made with encryption, to enable > support? If it is true, and Orcl planned to come out with it in some time in the future, then this "leak" is truly not such a good situation... If that it is what it seems, code can be used just to watch it (for ideas etc) but one needs to rewrite in free implementation anything alike that is changed since Opensolaris close-down. Looks to me that Orcl better step up soon to say that they are collaborating in the future anyway in the open manner and and that such "leaks" are not necessary for such a big and respectful company to gain open-source oriented customers and public. They already have tons of open source products - that are open and commercial at the same time everywhere already and in the future, it is for sure. Anyway, Just small clarification from Oracle that code release is blessed by them could clear things up. And will gain respect from wider Solaris community and future customers. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?65756-Solaris-11-source-code-leaked http://news.softpedia.com/news/Oracle-Solaris-11-Kernel-Source-Leaked-241597.shtml Has this been "leaked"? do we want to try to look/keep well clear in order to see where ZFS changes are made with encryption, to enable support? ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
