Re: [Opensim-dev] Legacy region XML support - Remove?

[Fly Man]

Some people still use the old format to load regions, makes it easier to
load balance the region server when doing rolling restarts :)


2014-04-12 3:14 GMT+02:00 Justin Clark-Casey :

> I don't see any problem with removing this - it's an extremely old format
> that I'd be surprised if anybody still uses.
>
>
> On 11/04/14 02:03, Melanie wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the RegionInfo class supports an ancient form of XML, one that is
>> based on attributes rather than tags.
>>
>> At this point, we believe no one uses this format anymore. Further,
>> NINI offers another form of XML that is much more up to date and a
>> better replacement for the ancient XML in any case.
>>
>> The affected installations would be those that use pre-0.6
>> configuration files (regions.xml) or use web loading.
>>
>> The old config files would need to be redone by hand in .ini format,
>> and people who web-load would need to change the server scripts to
>> provide the same data in the new format, which is not too hard a task.
>>
>> I propose to remove the support for the legacy format, which has
>> last been updated in 2007 and has been unused for two major revisions.
>>
>> Thoughts are welcome.
>>
>> Melanie
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>>
>>
>
> --
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> OSVW Consulting
> http://justincc.org
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Legacy region XML support - Remove?

[Fly Man]

+1 as long as there's a good wiki page written to convert the old files to
the new format


2014-04-11 3:58 GMT+02:00 James Stallings II :

> For my part, I thought it was long gone :)
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Melanie  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the RegionInfo class supports an ancient form of XML, one that is
>> based on attributes rather than tags.
>>
>> At this point, we believe no one uses this format anymore. Further,
>> NINI offers another form of XML that is much more up to date and a
>> better replacement for the ancient XML in any case.
>>
>> The affected installations would be those that use pre-0.6
>> configuration files (regions.xml) or use web loading.
>>
>> The old config files would need to be redone by hand in .ini format,
>> and people who web-load would need to change the server scripts to
>> provide the same data in the new format, which is not too hard a task.
>>
>> I propose to remove the support for the legacy format, which has
>> last been updated in 2007 and has been unused for two major revisions.
>>
>> Thoughts are welcome.
>>
>> Melanie
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>
>
>
> --
> ===
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> http://simhost.com
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>
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

[Fly Man]

I think sometimes it matters that there's a stable release schedule, Sept
2013 is far in the past and there has been a lot of changes in Opensim
since then.

Strangely enough there haven't been "in between" releases or something like
that. At this moment I think a lot of grid owners are sweating as a new
release might blow their support channels as the users will want to new
features asap.

My advice: Do a "in between" release so people can see the changes and use
the 0.8 release as the large release for a lot of features that people have
been wanting. Use the "in between" to see if there's any large issues
arising.


2014-04-02 19:17 GMT+02:00 Robert Martin :

> from my POV i would think that a Freeze For Release would be a good
> idea since a constant MUST DO NEW FEATURE thing is what prevents
> having a good release.
>
> One thing that would be nice as a sidebar would be for there to be a
> single shell exe that starts the webserver then starts the sim and
> gives an all clear when the sim is ready (of course having a good
> working web control panel would be good).
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Ai Austin  wrote:
> >
> >> From: Jim Williams 
> >> Not only do I not want to do development, I want to use the system which
> >> was developed.  ... So, you may drop dead for all I care.  You are not
> >> helping to protect my environment.
> >
> >
> > Whoooaaa Jim... take it easy... that's way out of order in an open source
> > contributed effort community.. and really not nice on a list for the
> > developers who put their time and effort in to give us all software we
> can
> > enjoy and use.
> >
> > I for one will be very pleased to see the stable release of 0.8.0 which
> > testing is showing is very stable and up-to-date running on our own
> grid, on
> > add-on regions on OSGrid and doing hypergrid jumps to a range of other
> > grids.  I am very glad that Justin one again is willing to take on the
> > release preparation on behalf of all of us in the community.. developers,
> > testers, documenters, wiki and blog writers, and users.
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] varregion and map teleporting improvements

[Fly Man]

The code in Firestorm is based on the 256x256 code that was in the old code
from LL before.

Suggestion is to send a message to CinderCase
(@DropDeadCinder)
on Twitter or send in a JIRA in the Firestorm JIRA


2014-01-28 GarminKawaguichi :

>  There is a significant difference between Singularity and FireStorm for
> OpenSim in the full rendering of the Mini-Map of VarRegion.
>
> - Singularity Viewer 1.8.4 (5614) Jan 25 2014 21:38:13 (Singularity Alpha)
> The VarRegion and objects are rendered correctly by the Mini-map
> http://www.magalaxie.com/opensim/201401281649SingMiniMap.png
>
> - Firestorm 4.5.1 (38838) Oct 28 2013 01:35:58 (Firestorm-Beta) with
> OpenSimulator support
> The objects are rendered correctly on the Mini-map (in their right places) but
> only the terrain of the SW region is displayed in the entire window.
> http://www.magalaxie.com/opensim/201401281627FireMiniMap.png
>
>
> We do not know if this is due to OpenSimulator server or FireStorm viewer.
>
>  Another thing: is there the equivalent of Mantis for bugs and suggestions
> about VarRegion? And is it possible to have an indication of the version
> of VarRegion and the master found in 
> git://opensimulator.org/git/opensimbranch varregion? We
> clone it with Tortoise-git.
>
> MML
>
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] libopenmetaverse now on github

[Fly Man]

Congrats on getting it on Github.

2012/6/2 Latif Khalifa 

> Hi All,
>
> Just a quick heads-up: the new home for libopenmetaverse source is now
> on github:
>
> https://github.com/openmetaversefoundation/libopenmetaverse
>
> Latif
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Gainsay ultra minimalist web front end

[Fly Man]

Congrats on this minimal version of a WebUI for Robust

Fly-Man-

2012/5/23 James Stallings II 

> Greetings Metaverse :)
>
> I am proud to announce the general availability of a new opensim web
> front-end called 'Gainsay', now available at GitHub.
>
> The design philosophy of this front-end is very straightforward, and it's
> featureset is exceedingly limited. It goes something like this:
>
> Featureset:
>  - allow anonymous web-originated requests for grid access via simple web
> form
>  - provide a means for a grid operator to review, approve, or remove
> requests supplied anonymously via the web
>
> This highly constrained feature set allows the system to be incredibly
> lightweight, as there is no need to support user login or related
> operations from the web. All administrative operations occur directly on
> the system in user space. Security is therefor inherited from the operating
> system.
>
> All code is in PHP; two html files with embedded PHP and three CLI PHP
> user space commands.
>
> It is very simple to set up, provided one has already installed apache,
> mysql, PHP and opensim (pretty typical toolchain dependencies+application
> in our community).
>
> Documentation was the first thing written, big fat readme included in the
> repo.
>
> The package isn't perfect yet (probably some typos here and there in the
> user feedback) and no doubt there are places the documentation could be
> touched up (and will be in the quite near future).
>
> It cries out for testing, and your feedback is not only appreciated but
> solicited. Find it at http://github.com/JamesStallings/gainsayWFE
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> Cheers
> James/Hiro
>
> --
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Re: [Opensim-dev] [PROPOSAL] Adding platform type to the grid_info

[Fly Man]

It's kinda strange that a lot of people have responded so far but none of
them are Core developers.

Now either the Core developers are very busy or they see no need to
responding on this feature request.
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Updating Datasnapshot

[Fly Man]

Nope, Maybe *kcozens* changes things around lately but I never used
gridserverURL because it was too unpredictable for OSSearch

Fly-Man-

2012/3/11 Nebadon Izumi 

> any chance this could break OSSearch module on forge? (
> http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/ossearch/ )
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Diva Canto wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm about to update the DataSanpshot module to include relevant
>> information that has been added to OpenSim in the last couple of years. I'd
>> like to take this opportunity to clean up some things that were there as
>> sketches for what would come, but before I do, I want to make sure that no
>> one is using those. Here's an example of the top of one of the snapshot
>> files:
>>
>> 
>> 5e6d615b-c7b0-**40b4-9868-87924d533d62
>> http://ucigrid01.nacs.**uci.edu:9001<http://ucigrid01.nacs.uci.edu:9001>
>> 
>> Diva's Office 1
>> 1183074511762432
>> 
>> 
>> http://127.0.0.**1:8003 <http://127.0.0.1:8003>
>> 
>> Diva's Office
>> 
>> ...
>>
>> As seen, way back then we added a node called  that had a child
>> called . That was a guess name at the time meant to capture
>> what is now known as the Gatekeeper. Before I rename this to GatekeeperURL:
>> is anyone relying on the existence of this field called ?
>>
>>
>> __**_
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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[Opensim-dev] [PROPOSAL] Adding platform type to the grid_info

[Fly Man]

Goodmorning,

After breaking down about 20 new parts of code in viewers, one of the
pieces is still around in many: The Hippo GridManager

But 1 of the pieces hasn't had any changes to it recently, the platform
part.

I would like to propose to add platform to the grid_info that an Opensim
based grid has other options available then for instance Secondlife.

Please add the according pieces to the Robust server so viewers would be
able to be noticed about what kind of grid they're connecting to.

Kind regards,

Fly-Man-
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Improved OSSearch & OSProfile

[Fly Man]

The changes you made looks good, but if possible: Can you grab the latest
code from the Forge and make a Diff to your own code.

Makes it easier to see what you exactly changed.

Fly-Man-

2011/10/23 Argus 

> Hi.
>
> I have done some changes to the OSSearch and OSProfile module. The changes
> require the webservices and the os modules to be updated.
>
> After implementation the inworld search will show the classifieds and the
> search is improved. Maybe someone of the devs could aply the changes to
> Forge ;)
>
> Profile Module
> -
>
> - Added the inworld search for classiefieds to the Profile Module as the
> Classifieds are created and saved by the Profile Module.
>
> Search Module
> -
>
> - Removed the classifieds which are now in the profile module
> - improved the seach by keywords...
> - added a db cleanup option to "register.php". This removes all old data
> from the database. This is to improve the search and keep the db smaler.
> This also requires a new field in regions table...
>
>
> Michelle Argus
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] DisplayNames

[Fly Man]

Maybe it's just a matter of reading the Mantis that explains the messages
needed for Display names.

http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5326

2011/6/27 Teravus Ovares 

> At the moment, I don't think anyone within the core of OpenSimulator
> has researched this.If you'd like to examine it, it might be best
> to take a look at how libOpenMetaverse managed it from the client side
> and then see how you can apply it server side.Implementing
> DisplayNames 'will' require C# knowledge and some minimal knowledge
> about how OpenSimulator is structured.  My guess, though, as I said, I
> have not researched this particular feature, is it would also require
> either base XML understanding ..  or an understanding about how to use
> the libOMV OSD type objects.  It would require an understanding of
> what CAPABILITIES are and how to register your new CAPABILITY with the
> SEED CAPABILITY.
>
> Regards
>
> Teravus
>
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Tyler McMaster
>  wrote:
> > What message does the viewer send for display names?
> >
> >
> > I'm trying to make a plugin that enables display names.
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar appearance using SL viewer 2

[Fly Man]

AvatarPicksRequest is when the profile of an avatar is being requested, to
be exact the Picks of that user.

OpenSim.Profile is one of the modules that grabs this message in order to
show the Picks that the user has

Fly-Man-

2010/8/26 Olli Aro 

>  Ok have now had time to produce a proper test case for the problem I am
> facing.
>
>
>
> Environment:
>
>
>
> OpenSim version: OpenSim head revision from today
>
> OpenSim mode: Standalone
>
> OS: Windows XP
>
> Database: sqlite and mysql
>
>
>
> *Test sequence 1 using the latest SL viewer:*
>
>
>
> 1)  Create a new user via console
>
> 2)  Login the user
>
> Following messages appear in the log:
>
> 08:28:50 - [SCENE]: Received request for wearables of test test
>
> 08:28:53 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 66c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a-024e-585989bfaba9
>
> 08:28:53 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 77c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a-024e-585989bfabc9
>
> 08:28:53 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id d34
>
> 2e6c1-b9d2-11dc-95ff-0800200c9a66
>
> 08:28:53 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 77c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a--585989bf
>
> 08:28:53 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 77c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a--5859892f
>
> 08:29:04 - [GENERICMESSAGE]: Not handling GenericMessage with method-type
> of: av
>
> atarpicksrequest
>
> 3)  Added all body parts and shirt and pants
>
> 4)  Wear all of the above (side note: it seems like the eyes never
> show up in viewer 2. Anyone else noticed this?)
>
> 5)  Changed the sex to male
>
> 6)  Logout (please see file inventory_after_avatar_creation.csv for
> database state)
>
> 7)  Login the avatar
>
> Avatar appears naked and the following appears in the log:
>
> 08:41:55 - [GENERICMESSAGE]: Not handling GenericMessage with method-type
> of: av
>
> atarpicksrequest
>
> 8)  Wear clothes again
>
> 9)  Logout (please see file inventory_after_relogin.csv for database
> state)
>
> 10)   Quit OpenSim
>
> 11)   Start OpenSim
>
> 12)   Login the avatar
>
> All inventory items appear ok but the avatar has reverted to female and the
> following in the log:
>
> 08:48:40 - [GENERICMESSAGE]: Not handling GenericMessage with method-type
> of: av
>
> atarpicksrequest
>
>
>
> *Test sequence 2 using the latest SL viewer:*
>
>
>
> Exactly like sequence 1 but restarted the server after step 6. Exactly the
> same results so this does not seem to be related to persisting the data at
> server shutdown.
>
>
>
> *Test sequence 3 using older version 1 SL viewer:*
>
>
>
> When wearing any item things seem to work fine in the UI but I get the
> following errors in the log:
>
>
>
> 10:48:18 - [APPEARANCE]: AvatarIsWearing
>
> 10:48:18 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 66c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a-024e-585989bfaba9
>
> 10:48:18 - [APPEARANCE]: Can't find inventory item
> 66c41e39-38f9-f75a-024e-58598
>
> 9bfaba9 for Shape, setting to default
>
> 10:48:18 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 77c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a-024e-585989bfabc9
>
> 10:48:18 - [APPEARANCE]: Can't find inventory item
> 77c41e39-38f9-f75a-024e-58598
>
> 9bfabc9 for Skin, setting to default
>
> 10:48:18 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id d34
>
> 2e6c1-b9d2-11dc-95ff-0800200c9a66
>
> 10:48:18 - [APPEARANCE]: Can't find inventory item
> d342e6c1-b9d2-11dc-95ff-08002
>
> 00c9a66 for Hair, setting to default
>
> 10:48:18 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 77c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a--585989bf
>
> 10:48:18 - [APPEARANCE]: Can't find inventory item
> 77c41e39-38f9-f75a--58598
>
> 9bf for Shirt, setting to default
>
> 10:48:18 - [LOCAL INVENTORY SERVICES CONNECTOR]: Could not find item with
> id 77c
>
> 41e39-38f9-f75a--5859892f
>
> 10:48:18 - [APPEARANCE]: Can't find inventory item
> 77c41e39-38f9-f75a--58598
>
> 92f for Pants, setting to default
>
>
>
> After steps 7 and 12 all appears ok and is worn.
>
>
>
> *Conclusion:*
>
> * *
>
> Maybe someone else is able to find something more from the information
> above but what stands out for me is that with viewer 2 we always get the
> following message in the logs:
>
>
>
> 08:41:55 - [GENERICMESSAGE]: Not handling GenericMessage with method-type
> of: avatarpicksrequest
>
>
>
> While with viewer 1 that line is not there.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Olli
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] SL viewer 2 testing

[Fly Man]

2010/8/4 Justin Clark-Casey 

> On 03/08/10 14:40, Olli Aro wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Have been playing around with SL viewer 2 and the latest OpenSim
>> version(well moap branch actually) the last couple of days. While it
>> seems to be mostly working fine there are couple of snags I have
>> noticed. Thought will start a mailing list thread in order to collect
>> them. Maybe other people can add on this and then we will have a full
>> picture on how far we are for compatibility?
>>
>> So here we go:
>>
>> 1) World map is not working – It seems like the map tiles are named ok
>> but the images are coming from somewhere else. The small map is working
>> ok.
>>
>
> Yes, I remember hearing that the map tile location was hard-coded for
> Linden Lab but this has since been changed.  I'm not yet sure how to change
> this, though.
>

Justin, please have a look at the link that the OMV crew posted earlier
about getting it fixed.

It seems that in Snowglobe this patch is still on hold but it allows the
viewer to set the MapURL where to find the tiles
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Re: [Opensim-dev] JSON or XML for serialization in the OpenSim database?

[Fly Man]

My 2 cents in this conversation:

I think that XML at this moment is a better solution then JSON, provided
that there's a good DTD to accompany it.

JSON, in my opinion, makes it harder to do debugging on a deeper level

Fly-man-
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Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7 RC2 problems

[Fly Man]

I have no clue if Diva did try to compile it with .NET 4.0 but the 32 bit
version is for the older machines that run Opensim Robust for some time

So, I hope that it's just a way of compiling that Diva did and that it's
better to compile the source against .NET 3.5 or make sure there's no .NET
4.0 pieces in it ...

2010/7/3 Michael Cerquoni 

> is it possible that this could be debug stuff? perhaps this binary is
> compiled with debug and thus wont run without .net 4??  I know this
> particular .exe file comes precompiled not something we do at compile time.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Michael Cerquoni wrote:
>
>> I thought .net 4 was officially released? (
>> http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/) but that aside, i was able
>> to verify what your saying, thanks for clarifying that.  I know
>> OpenSimulator has not officially made .net 4 the official version, but it
>> seems Microsoft has now, I think windows update only has .net 4 now and not
>> 3.5.1 anymore.  The more odd part is I did not think OpenSimulator used
>> anything that was .net 4 only, this would likely mean it also does not run
>> under mono either, because mono doesn't support any .net 4 functions yet
>> either.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Fly Man wrote:
>>
>>> Nebadon,
>>>
>>> The issues are not in the source package but the precompiled version.
>>> When trying to run Robust.32BitLaunch.exe the following is being displayed
>>> on screen
>>>
>>> (see attached image)
>>>
>>> In English, it failed to initialise the .NET 4 layers because it lacks
>>> the bits on the machine.
>>>
>>> Since these are all Windows machines that are only running .NET 3.5 on
>>> it, it's rather strange that the source has been compiled with .NET 4.0 and
>>> then released.
>>>
>>> And yes, when I compile the RC2 myself with the .NET 3.5 parser and
>>> VS2010 there's no issue being mentioned.
>>>
>>> I just find it strange that before all releases are being released with
>>> .NET 3.5 and all of a sudden the latest is compiled with .NET 4.0 which
>>> isn't officially released yet
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
>
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[Opensim-dev] 0.7 RC2 problems

[Fly Man]

Nebadon,

The issues are not in the source package but the precompiled version. When
trying to run Robust.32BitLaunch.exe the following is being displayed on
screen

(see attached image)

In English, it failed to initialise the .NET 4 layers because it lacks the
bits on the machine.

Since these are all Windows machines that are only running .NET 3.5 on it,
it's rather strange that the source has been compiled with .NET 4.0 and then
released.

And yes, when I compile the RC2 myself with the .NET 3.5 parser and VS2010
there's no issue being mentioned.

I just find it strange that before all releases are being released with .NET
3.5 and all of a sudden the latest is compiled with .NET 4.0 which isn't
officially released yet
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[Opensim-dev] 0.7 RC2 problems

[Fly Man]

Morning,

With the new version that you released, it seems that without installing
.NET 4.0 I can't run the RC2 on a standard Windows machine.

Could you please either recompile with .NET 3.5 and re-release the RC2 or
make sure that the .NET 4.0 parts are removed from the source.

Kind regards
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[Opensim-dev] A small message about Fly-Man- Projects

[Fly Man]

For the people that haven't seen me around for some time:

In the months May and June I was doing battle against a resident bacteria
that got the better of me for some weeks.

Until the official 0.7 release is made, I won't be working on any of the
projects that are on my name.

The changes that are being done on Master and other branches are too
extensive to follow at some times and that's why I will be waiting for a
stable 0.7 release before I start making changes to the projects.

Until then, I will be working on recovering my health.

Kind regards,

Fly-Man-
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Running FreeSwitch with OpenSim

[Fly Man]

Well, this is a simple question with an even easier answer:

Don't start FreeSwitch first, start Opensim first and then Freeswitch.

The link /api/freeswitch-config doesn't exist in the Opensim instance
because it's not implemented.

Also see the Wiki page about more info

http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Freeswitch_Module
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Re: [Opensim-dev] forge.opensimulator.org is currently down

[Fly Man]

Well, I would rather see Git inclusion in the Gforge first, before we do a
clean slate 

2010/4/17 Robert Martin 

> Could somebody please purge projects that are inactive (hint if you
> have been "planning" for the last 6 months your project is going
> nowhere)??
> --
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Re: [Opensim-dev] on to 0.7

[Fly Man]

Mark, Others,

When something doesn't work in 0.6.9, it's definitly not going to be working
in 0.7.

I am one of the maintainers for the OpenSim.Search, Opensim.Profle and
OpenSim.FakeCurrency at this moment.

Both Search and Profile work with the latest 0.7 ( with many adjustments at
my side) but there's a lot of tweaking that needs to be done for the
FakeCurrency in order to get things working.

There's 2 ways that I can incorporate FakeCurrency back into the 0.7:

1. Abandon it as the whole Core community sees no use for it

2. Try to recreate the whole module that it will be run as a seperate
process next to the ROBUST so when people really want to use it, it doesn't
interfere with the Core functions.

BUT:

In order to get to the 2, the Core needs to realise that parts of the
currency implementation were killed when moving around tables and removing
pieces of code.

I'd like to have a working implementation as a POC (Proof of Concept) where
other people can extend to it but as of this moment, not even a single
person took the liberty or time to have a conversation about how we can
solve this.

Note for developers: You threw out something that's embedded in many pieces
of the original code, even groups uses some of these parts.

So, in conclusion: Currency wasn't seen as a Core priority and has been
removed from the Core as it's too dangerous.

However, I think Currency is one of the key pieces in some of the code parts
(Groups/Search/Profile) that definitly needs more love then it's getting at
this moment.

Fly

2010/3/30 Mark Malewski 

>
> *> A working release version would really be good when*
> *> the standard modules that used to work in 0.6.8 would*
> *> work again. .*
>
> Right, but wouldn't it make more sense to skip 0.6.9, and just focus on 0.7
> and focus on getting the modules to work with 0.7 (since 0.6.9 will be
> deprecated as soon as 0.7 is released), so wouldn't it make much more sense
> to just focus our efforts on 0.7?
>
> Or can we just break up into two teams (a 0.6.9 team, and a 0.7 team?)
>  Jason can lead the 0.6.9 team, and Diva can lead the 0.7 team?
>
> Personally, I'd prefer to focus my efforts on documentation and bug
> testing/reporting for the upcoming 0.7 release.  I don't want to waste too
> much time on 0.6.9 (since the documentation is almost the same) and I'd
> really like to begin working on documentation and tutorials (and a User
> Guide) for the upcoming 0.7 release and 3+ additional weeks of time is quite
> a bit (since I have a very busy schedule as well, and 3 additional weeks to
> work on the 0.7 candidate would be VERY helpful to me personally).  So could
> we please post a 0.7-pre.rc1 binary, so that those wanting to work on
> documentation and testing for 0.7 RC can at least start?
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Fly Man wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I think I can mention about 4 Manti that definitly are worth and in need
>> of being helped before 0.7:
>>
>> #3522:* *After login sometimes the avatar is in over 10 kilometers height
>> and looks to the stars
>>
>> #4405 <http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=4405>: Even if object
>> was attached to avatar, the attachment of the object comes off by next
>> login.
>>
>> #4561: Set Home makes the users table show random values
>>
>> #2549: Avatars always login into T pose
>>
>> I still see some MRM patches that Adam would need to validate, so I won't
>> argue about those.
>>
>> BUT:
>>
>> A working release version would really be good when the standard modules
>> that used to work in 0.6.8 would work again. .
>>
>> Fly Man
>>
>> 2010/3/25 
>>
>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I would like to try to make a list of things that need to happen for 0.7
>>> to be tagged. Here's the start. Please add things that you think are
>>> missing. Note that this is not about fixing all problems with OpenSim, it's
>>> about tagging 0.7 as a relatively stable release, which will then allow all
>>> downstream projects to adapt to the new architecture and DB schema.
>>>
>>> - GridUser service in place, replacing the home info storage that is
>>> currently done awkwardly by the presence service
>>>
>>> - Estate owner feature restored, as a replacement of Master Avatar
>>>
>>> - Assorted DB migration issues fleshed out and fixed (several mantis)
>>>
>>> - Remote Admin bugs fixed (#4603)
>>>
>>> - Fix #4622
>>>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] OpenSim 0.6.9.rc1 binary and source packages available

[Fly Man]

So, this release is the exact time release before it just collapsed on any
modules that worked before ?

2010/3/26 Justin Clark-Casey 

> Hi folks,
>
> I've just made source and binary packages for OpenSim 0.6.9.rc1 available
> at
>
> http://dist.opensimulator.org/
>
> Please test and file feedback as necessary.  I have created a 0.6.9.RC1
> release category in Mantis for this.  I'm anticipating a period of 3 or 4
> weeks before actual release.
>
> This release is taken just before the presence-refactor changes occurred,
> so all the existing wiki documentation should be valid (such as it is).
>  Afaik, all the database tables are also structured as they were for 0.6.8.
>
> I'm deliberately only posting to this mailing list in order to get the most
> highly informed feedback.  I'd appreciate it if this notice wasn't posted to
> the wiki or elsewhere yet.
>
> As per previous OpenSim releases, only complete showstopper bugs will hold
> up the release.  The single such bug at the moment is
> http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=4437
>
> which describes the problems in using SQLite with Mono 2.4.3 and above.  I
> hope to see this resolved one way or another.
>
> --
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> http://justincc.org
> http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: [Opensim-dev] on to 0.7

[Fly Man]

Hello all,

I think I can mention about 4 Manti that definitly are worth and in need of
being helped before 0.7:

#3522:* *After login sometimes the avatar is in over 10 kilometers height
and looks to the stars

#4405 <http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=4405>: Even if object was
attached to avatar, the attachment of the object comes off by next login.

#4561: Set Home makes the users table show random values

#2549: Avatars always login into T pose

I still see some MRM patches that Adam would need to validate, so I won't
argue about those.

BUT:

A working release version would really be good when the standard modules
that used to work in 0.6.8 would work again. .....

Fly Man

2010/3/25 

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to try to make a list of things that need to happen for 0.7 to
> be tagged. Here's the start. Please add things that you think are missing.
> Note that this is not about fixing all problems with OpenSim, it's about
> tagging 0.7 as a relatively stable release, which will then allow all
> downstream projects to adapt to the new architecture and DB schema.
>
> - GridUser service in place, replacing the home info storage that is
> currently done awkwardly by the presence service
>
> - Estate owner feature restored, as a replacement of Master Avatar
>
> - Assorted DB migration issues fleshed out and fixed (several mantis)
>
> - Remote Admin bugs fixed (#4603)
>
> - Fix #4622
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] about the user information in 0.7 (master)

[Fly Man]

Morning,

The whole set of info that used to be in the users table will now move to
the osprofile module completly

Whenever I have time to edit and make sure that I can send the whole set
right through, then it will be available on the Gforge

And some of the methods mentioned in your resume are being send from Core so
that's why some of the methods have no names inside.

2010/3/17 ssm2017 

> hello
> i would like to know where the user basic/profile infos will be stored
>
> i have tried to make a resume here :
> http://d4os.isgreat.org/doc/dev/d4os-main-architecture/io/database/users
>
> i think that the infos will be stored in the osprofile module and then
> i have watched the osprofile module code and made a resume here :
>
> http://d4os.isgreat.org/doc/dev/d4os-main-architecture/integrated-external-projects/osprofile/xmlrpc
>
> did i get the good infos or is it another solution that will exist ?
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Re: [Opensim-dev] opensimwi

[Fly Man]

You should either multiply the values with 256 or divide it by 256

2010/3/4 Ideia Boa 

>  multiply by 256 the value of the coordinates in the files
>
>
> On 04-03-2010 21:43, john felipe urrego mejia wrote:
>
> version of opensimwi not work with the OpenSim version 0.6.8, I've tried
> many times and gets me an error on the islands with their coordinates and I
> regresca users who register for this medium
>
> greetings
>
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] merge has happened

[Fly Man]

Thanks for the notice Diva

And might I add to it:

Thanks for breaking about 100% of the working modules !!

2010/3/2 

> News!
>
> Melanie tagged 0.6.9 from master with corresponding 0.6.9-post-fixes now
> waiting for improvements. Testers wanted for 0.6.9-post-fixes.
>
> The presence-refactor branch has been merged onto master, which is now
> pre-0.7.
>
> Anyone trying the master branch, please be aware of the architectural
> changes that happened:
> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/ROBUST#An_Example_Conversion_From_URM_To_R
>
> The usual warning: don't use the master branch for anything that is vaguely
> similar to a production grid. We have been tagging releases for a reason...
>
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[Opensim-dev] Communcation between projects

[Fly Man]

It seems there's a small misunderstanding about what the word *communication
*means in OpenSim

In my honest opinion, there's a list of all the people that are working on
something, like a module or pieces of code that extend Opensim to a working
system.

But for some reason, I'm getting the feeling that the communication within
the developers groups for OpenSim is way off

Example: I am working on getting Profiles 100% working inside OpenSim. At
this moment, 95 % of this is achieved by the module that is on the Gforge at
this moment

After the "mistake" that's called merge the whole module at this moment
isn't working.

BUT: and I quote from IRC now:

[20:38]  Fly-Man-, there are no profiles in the latest opensim
code
[20:38]  there's always going to be bumps in the road
[20:38]  jhurlima2: Jupz, I know that now
[20:38]  as you discovered
[20:38]  the whole Iprofile is deleted
[20:38]  yes
[20:38]  since the whole IProfile was a part of the
OpenSim.Profile
[20:38]  I have a module that's dead now
[20:39]  and let's see
[20:39]  * Fly-Man- DOESN"T like DEAD modules in a working grid
[20:39]  i'm working on a new profile module right now. want me
to add you to the project?
[20:39]  jhurlima2: No
[20:39]  I wanted a working OpenSim,Profile

*Huh, did Jhurliman just say that there's another group working on profiles
at the same time as I am ??*

- Q: Since when are you working on it ?
- Q: Care to explain what's wrong with OpenSim.Profile ?
- Q: Maybe send a email to the creator(s) of the OpenSim.Profile to announce
that you're working on a new one ?


So, let me ask a simple question about communication:

*Who is working on what at this moment and why isn't there a mentioning on
this development list about it ??*
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[Opensim-dev] Broken Modules after presence-refactor merge into trunk

[Fly Man]

Hello,

It seems that for some reason, *no one *decided to check if any of the
currently working modules would work against the presence-refactor branch.

Since the merge from presence-refactor branch in trunk I have 4 non working
modules that were working before in the presence-refactor branch tests that
I did

These are the error message I now get when trying to compile Opensim with
the modules Search, Profile, Currency and Email

*- The type or namespace name 'Cache' does not exist in the namespace
'OpenSim.Framework.Communications' (are you missing an assembly
reference?)
addon-modules\OpenSimSearch\Modules\SearchModule\OpenSearch.cs

- 'OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.SceneCommunicationService' does not
contain a definition for 'GenerateAgentPickerRequestResponse' and no
extension method 'GenerateAgentPickerRequestResponse' accepting a first
argument of type 'OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.SceneCommunicationService'
could be found (are you missing a using directive or an assembly
reference?)

- The type or namespace name 'CachedUserInfo' could not be found (are you
missing a using directive or an assembly reference?)
addon-modules\OpenSimCurrency\Modules\CurrencyModule\OpenCurrency.cs

- 'OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene' does not contain a definition for
'CommsManager' and no extension method 'CommsManager' accepting a first
argument of type 'OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.Scene' could be found (are
you missing a using directive or an assembly reference?)
addon-modules\OpenSimCurrency\Modules\CurrencyModule\OpenCurrency.cs

*
So, whenever someone feels like telling me who made the hickups and how to
fix them, I would be very happy
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Status of presence refactor?

[Fly Man]

2010/2/23 Cristina Videira Lopes 

> Let's bring the focus of this thread back. We're about to merge the
> presence-refactor branch into the master branch, and then we'll need
> testers, some of us will be working overtime to fix the bugs, and hopefully
> Fly-Man- will update Wiredux sometime soon. Then a big effort in
> documentation will start.
> There's a lot of work to do. The last thing we need is switching
> development tools.
>
>
Uhm, at this moment there is no Wiredux that will work with master or
presence-refactor.

The version I am developing for my own grids is not nearly finished up so
don't expect a new version of Wiredux within the coming 2 months.

And as I heard, there's about 4 groups working on the followup version of
Wiredux so I find it strange that my name comes up for Wiredux as there's
enough other ppl working on it as well
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Web interface for OpenSim

[Fly Man]

John,

Which webinterface do you mean ??

If you mean the Wiredux, at this moment that won't work anymore. There have
been some changes that are not implemented into the Wiredux.

There are some ppl working on a new development on a Webinterface but I
think that it won't be here soon.

2010/2/9 john felipe urrego mejia 

> hello friends, this time of upset because I could not successfully run the
> Web interface for OpenSim, the only problem I find is the name of the table
> in MYSQL containing regions, with its location X, Y, name, and these things
>
>
> thanks
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Re: [Opensim-dev] User services refactoring status

[Fly Man]

Diva,

That was a discussion that has been done on the #opensim-dev channel and so
far, I haven't seen a single documentation point entrusted to the Wiki about
the new ROBUST components

Maybe it's a good idea for you to lead the way ?

2010/1/8 

> Impalah Shenzhou wrote:
>
> > There is only one thing I really miss for making this: the interfaces
> > between simultator->UGAIM are not clearly documented and we have to
> > navigate into code to konow what we have to do.
>
> I have pointed to the code, because that's all there is at the moment,
> and it's not even finished. That is not to say that that's all there
> ever will be. Documentation is in the near future, at least for me, as
> something that will be increasingly important for the project, critical
> even. I'm not sure core devs can do it alone, though -- in fact, I'm
> pretty sure we can't. I think we need to organize this community of
> users-developers much better than we have been doing before to produce
> "The OpenSim Guide." It can't be a free-for-all, anarchic, design-free
> wiki like we have been having so far (this is my opinion only, and
> doesn't represent any official position of the core devs, but I'm
> sticking to it). We need leaders (i.e. "Wikipedia admins"). Personally I
> would love to see the emergence of a group of people here who would
> become the "core documenters". Those people would work very closely with
> core devs in order to "extract" the knowledge out of our heads and into
> documentation.
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Re: [Opensim-dev] User services refactoring status

[Fly Man]

In other words:

Wiredux won't use those connectors but will grab to the database itself.
Wiredux is not a .NET application so it will go directly to the database.

I will wait until the refactoring is done, have a look what's wrecked and
maybe fix it.

2010/1/5 

> Putting PHP in front of the DBs is one of the most natural things to do
> from here on -- not just the things that Wiredux does, but for a lot
> more! In fact, the entire collection of OpenSim.Services that are
> provided as reference implementations can be replaced with
> implementations in Apache+PHP.
>
> Calls from the simulators to the services are now all neatly packaged in
> OpenSim.Services.Connectors (these are the "out" connectors). Just
> browse through those connectors and check out the wire protocols, then
> do the receiving end in PHP. Many of them are using standard web forms,
> others use XMLRPC, others use custom-made HTTP-based dialects.
>
> Calls from outside to the simulators are packaged in
> OpenSim.Server.Handlers. Again, check them out and, if not using .NET,
> write your own client for them. If using .NET/mono you can import the
> DLL OpenSim.Connectors.dll, and reuse the existing connectors as-is.
>
> But that's not all. Since now the interactions between the simulators
> and the resource services are all formalized in interfaces
> (OpenSim.Services.Interfaces), and the handlers and connectors in the
> simulator are loaded dynamically, you can replace the connectors and
> handlers themselves. In other words, if you want OpenSim to talk web
> services, roll your own Web Services handlers and connectors under those
> interfaces, and you're done -- you'll have to use .NET for this part,
> though.
>
> Tom Willans wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > First thanks for all your work.
> >
> > I assume from this that the webredux will no longer work without
> > modification and will need updating. ( Thanks again here).
> > Is there any information about the new authentication approach anywhere,
> > if not in detail then an overview. Is LDAP on the horizon?
> >
> > I am mostly interested in linking php based frontends to opensim and
> > hence accessing the database directly. Particularly relevant is moving
> > away from using UUIDs.
> > Please forgive me if I am missing something but I assume there are no
> > web-services that can be called and calling C# from php is not a very
> > good solution.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Tom
> > On 5 Jan 2010, at 10:37, Ai Austin wrote:
> >
> >> At 18:32 04/01/2010, opensim-dev-requ...@lists.berlios.de
> >>  wrote:
> >>> To be honest, I don't think Sqlite should be a database type that we
> >>> (OpenSim) should keep alive in the project,
> >>
> >>
> >> It is useful to have a double click and go out of the box solution
> >> which people can try out and test with.
> >>
> >> One other use of SQLite that I am aware of and fine very useful is
> >> for the really simple and handy single region hosted on your own
> >> system that is connected to the New World Grid for any avatar using
> >> the "New World Studio" packaged version of Opensim. See
> >> http://www.newworldgrid.com/lang/en-us/land/free-land
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de 
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> > Tom Willans
> > Managing Director
> > Bessacarr Publications Ltd
> > 3 Highfield, Hatton Park, Warwick, CV35 7TQ
> > tom.will...@bessacarr.com 
> > +44 (0) 1926 402055   +44 (0) 121 288 0281
> > Registered in England and Wales at the above address.  Company No:
> > 4925067. VAT No:GB 823 9317 24.
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the
> > individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are
> > solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
> > Bessacarr Publications Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient you
> > have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination,
> > forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
> > Please return it to the sender immediately. The contents of this message
> > may be legally privileged.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
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Re: [Opensim-dev] User services refactoring status

[Fly Man]

Tom, yes, the Wiredux as it's posted on the Gforge is outdated and won't
have a update that will support the new basics.

In time, I hope to release a new version of the OpenWiredux that will
support the new basics but this will take some more time.

2010/1/5 Tom Willans 

> Hi,
>
> First thanks for all your work.
>
> I assume from this that the webredux will no longer work without
> modification and will need updating. ( Thanks again here).
> Is there any information about the new authentication approach anywhere, if
> not in detail then an overview. Is LDAP on the horizon?
>
> I am mostly interested in linking php based frontends to opensim and hence
> accessing the database directly. Particularly relevant is moving away from
> using UUIDs.
> Please forgive me if I am missing something but I assume there are no
> web-services that can be called and calling C# from php is not a very good
> solution.
>
> Thanks.
> Tom
> On 5 Jan 2010, at 10:37, Ai Austin wrote:
>
> At 18:32 04/01/2010, opensim-dev-requ...@lists.berlios.de wrote:
>
> To be honest, I don't think Sqlite should be a database type that we
>
> (OpenSim) should keep alive in the project,
>
>
>
> It is useful to have a double click and go out of the box solution
> which people can try out and test with.
>
> One other use of SQLite that I am aware of and fine very useful is
> for the really simple and handy single region hosted on your own
> system that is connected to the New World Grid for any avatar using
> the "New World Studio" packaged version of Opensim. See
> http://www.newworldgrid.com/lang/en-us/land/free-land
>
> ___
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> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
> Tom Willans
> Managing Director
> Bessacarr Publications Ltd
> 3 Highfield, Hatton Park, Warwick, CV35 7TQ
> tom.will...@bessacarr.com
> +44 (0) 1926 402055   +44 (0) 121 288 0281
> Registered in England and Wales at the above address.  Company No: 4925067.
> VAT No:GB 823 9317 24.
>
> This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the
> individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are
> solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
> Bessacarr Publications Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient you have
> received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding,
> printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. Please return it
> to the sender immediately. The contents of this message may be legally
> privileged.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] User services refactoring status

[Fly Man]

Diva,

To be honest, I don't think Sqlite should be a database type that we
(OpenSim) should keep alive in the project,

Setting up a simple MySQL server is made easier these days with products
like Xampp and others.

I would call for a vote to exclude Sqlite from the code.

At this moment, the most working Opensim database implementations are MySQL
and MSSQL

Nhibernate can be used for any of the other database servers that exists
(but i know that there's no one maintaining Nhibernate)


2010/1/4 

> Hi everyone,
>
> Just an quick message to let you know about the status of the
> refactoring, and to ask for help in some parts.
>
> Between Christmas and now, Melanie and I have re-engineered the way that
> OpenSim handles users, agents, and avatars, and the persistent data
> associated with all of these. This is the final push on the refactoring
> (and improvement) work that started back in May. This last piece of the
> work is being done in the branch presence-refactor.
>
> There are several new services that correspond to breaking up the user
> server into smaller pieces, i.e. things that the user server already did
> but in very awkward manner. Namely: user accounts (it's just that,
> accounts), authentication (manages passwords, auth tokens and the like),
> presence (knows where agents are), avatar (manages the 'carcass') and
> friends (social net basics). All of these have been made fairly generic,
> and this will enable a whole new level of extending OpenSim. For
> example, strings are used in important identifiers instead of UUIDs.
>
> Additionally, what was previously known as "Interregion Comms" (Local
> and REST) is now a simulation service provided by the sims. This last
> service makes agent transfers consistent throughout their existence --
> login and TPs -- and allows for future alternative ways of driving agents.
>
> ETA on merging this with master branch is next weekend. I think we're on
> track to have OpenSim 0.7 sometime in January. This will also allow us
> to start taking security seriously right after 0.7 is tagged.
>
> I encourage you to check out the branch and, at least, look through
> OpenSim.Services.Interfaces, which now tell the story quite well. The
> really brave can try it out on test grids/standalones. (Please use test
> grids/DBs only for the time being!) Notice the configuration files which
> now have a lot more in them. NOTE: only works for MySQL at the moment.
>
> This leads me to the asking-for-help part. The DB schema has changed
> substantially. We have been doing this with MySql. We need help to make
> the same changes to SQLite and MSSQL, if these are to be supported from
> here on. I know we can count on StrawberryFride to update the MSSQL
> connector. However, for SQLite... it has been falling through the
> cracks. There is already a show-stopper bug in it that makes the SQLite
> connector not work with mono 2.4.3 and higher
> (http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=4463). Unless someone steps
> in and takes care of the SQLite connector, I'm afraid it will go the way
> of the dinosaurs.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Diva / Canto
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Re: [Opensim-dev] SLoodle in OpenSim: Email module

[Fly Man]

Morning Andy,

This can be solved by putting the Emailmodule on in the OpenSim.ini and
making sure you have a local mailserver that can route the emails the right
way

2009/12/10 Andy Konstandinidis 

> Hello! I'm trying to use SLoodle in Opensim! I have setup my Opensim server
> and it is working fine. I have also loaded the .oar file of the Sloodle set.
> Yet when I try to configure the sloodle set to connect to the moodle site
> (by touching it in the 3D world) I get an error:
> SLOODLE Set 0.9 (RC1) -- COMPLETE (Fix 1.0): llGetNextEmail: email module
> not configured
>
> Anyone know how this issue can be resolved? Thanks!
>
> --
> Andreas Konstantinidis
>
> Research Assistant, SEERC (South- East European Research Center)
> PhD Candidate, Informatics Dept., A.U.TH .
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Konstantinidis
>
> Research Assistant, SEERC (South- East European Research Center)
> PhD Candidate, Informatics Dept., A.U.TH.
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Leaving Project

[Fly Man]

Adam,

You hit the nail right on his head with this passage:

*The big problem here is there’s a very real lack of viewer developers in
this community – there is some overlap between server & network engineers
(like the OS community) and 3D Viewer Developers here, but not much. If we
do have 3D devs in the community who haven’t done anything and feel like
contributing – you really should be talking to some of the ‘next gen viewer’
 projects and seeing if we can get something awesome done faster.
*
And maybe someone should explain WHY people won't burn their hands on the
viewer

Main reason: There's a clausule on the Website and internally about "*Look
at viewer code, and there's 6 months no working on OpenSim"*

So any person that would like to keep working on OpenSim doesn't look at
viewer code, and vice versa.

That's about the main reason that some viewer developers won't co-operate
with OpenSim and the other way, developers from OpenSim can't help viewer
developers

But that's just my 2 cents about that passage.
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Re: [Opensim-dev] [opensim-dev] LLVM with mono

[Fly Man]

Yes, I have tested this out. It seems that memory management is better
in the LLVM but a region server doesn't go any faster with or without
it

2009/10/11 Christophe, Jean-Charles Narbonne :
> Quote from mono 2.6 changelog:
>
> LLVM backend
>
> This is a new and experimental feature in Mono. It is now possible to
> compile Mono to use the LLVM code generation engine as an optimizing
> compiler for Mono.
>
> When enabled, LLVM will be used for most code instead of Mono's Just in Time
> compiler (there are a few pieces that are not yet supported by LLVM and in
> those cases Mono will fallback to its internal engine).
>
> Keep in mind that using LLVM has an impact on JIT performance, so this is
> not recommended for desktop scenarios where startup speed is important. LLVM
> should be used only for long-running applications or applications where
> long-term computational speed is more important than startup speed.
>
> The SciMark score on Mono goes from 482 to 610.
>
> Due to problems with autotools on windows, the llvm support is currently
> commented out. It can be enabled by applying this patch, and passing
> --enable-llvm=yes to configure.
>
> Does anybody tryed it?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Christophe Narbonne
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] [Opensim-users] 50+ avies

[Fly Man]

Adam, will this mean a new machine in the datacenter next to the old
one or a replacement machine ?

Because if the old machine keeps running, it might make a good
comparison machine for testing

2009/10/8 Frisby, Adam :
> Actually, WP is running on positively ancient hardware. We're 
> (DeepThink+simhost) scheduled to donate a new box to replace it this month 
> coming (along with plaza03 which will also be getting an update).
>
> Adam
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: opensim-users-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-users-
>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of d...@metaverseink.com
>> Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 2:22 PM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de; opensim-us...@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: [Opensim-users] 50+ avies
>>
>> In case you are missing all the excitement, this morning we were able
>> to
>> pile 52 people-driven avies in OSGrid's Wright Plaza under 600M of RAM,
>> and after that sim had been up for 10 hours, with a previous peak
>> presence of 36. This sim is running on average hardware, nothing fancy.
>>
>> It eventually crashed, likely due to an overly conservative lock still
>> present somewhere. But I think we just turned an important corner on
>> the
>> way to 1.0.
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Re: [Opensim-dev] OpenSim 0.7 Release Candidate with ALL working OpenSim Modules

[Fly Man]

My 2 cents here:

If you want a distribution that works, MAKE IT

I'm investing time of my own into OpenSim and making sure that the
modules that I created ALWAYS work with the latest versions of Core.

Some people even ask me sometimes why I take the time to make sure
that the modules I created or that I contributed on work with both a
release version but also the trunk.

Simple answer: I want to make sure that even a simple soul can
download, drop in a module and have it working.

Fly-Man-

2009/10/1 Frisby, Adam :
> Well, to be honest OpenSim is designed so you don’t need to compile
> something to install a module.
>
>
>
> It should be just dumped into the OpenSim dir as a .dll, and it should be
> picked up and loaded automatically – so people doing modules; you can ship
> binaries, and they will be reasonably compatible with a range of OpenSim
> versions (but occasionally yes they will need to be recompiled to work
> against trunk – especially during big internal shakeups). But that’s up to
> you.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Joshua Garvin
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 September 2009 4:28 PM
> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] OpenSim 0.7 Release Candidate with ALL working
> OpenSim Modules
>
>
>
> Mark's comment wasn't very well organized or thought out.  It was basically
> just an explosion of his frustration with OpenSim.
>
> But that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a few good points hidden in
> there.
>
> I believe that looking at most other software projects in the world, you
> would find that "core" or "base" products did not come into existence in a
> vacuum.  They were developed with a specific end product in mind that solved
> an immediate need and/or desire.  The developers of the end product most
> likely worked heavily on the core products. The effect of that end product
> was the world getting to see how great the technology is.  Once people see
> the possibilities your core provides, they will build other great products
> from it.
>
> I don't intend to say that the first end product has to share a repository
> with the core code.  Just that there needs to be an end product being work
> on by core developers.
>
> Do you need to include _every_ module in your releases?  No.  But you have
> to do whatever it takes to make using the most common modules as easy as
> possible.  If half or even a 5th of your potential users want module X, then
> it's fairly important that it's easy to install without knowing c#.
>
> You can do all of this the other way around -- but you're only hurting your
> own popularity.
>
> Be excellent to each other and party on dudes!
> - Joshua
> ___
> Joshua Garvin
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Melanie  wrote:
>
> Holdit!
>
> OpenSim is NOT A PRODUCT. OpenSim is a BASE other people can make a
> product out of. So, OpenSim aims to include as little as possible,
> distros are the ones who will put it together and relicense it as
> they see fit.
>
> OpenSim Core is not a maker of distros. We are not a product
> company. We are a loose association of people who share an interest.
> We don't _want_ to make a "product", because we can't support a
> product. We make "bits and pieces" and let those with support staff
> handle productizing it.
>
> Melanie
>
> Mark Malewski wrote:
>> Diva,
>>
>> *>> It would just be nice to get everything integrated back into core (or
>> as
>>>> OpenSim modules).
>>>*
>> *>This would be terrible. *
>>
>> Diva, please explain WHY would having a working OpenSim distro be
>> terrible?
>>  Having something that actually "works" is terrible?  In my opinion, just
>> the opposite is true.
>>
>> You can spend your whole life developing things (that no one actually
>> uses,
>> and that don't actually work or do much of anything, and that no one will
>> ever use) or you can make a WORKING product that is usable, and that is
>> EASY
>> to use, and that people will use.
>>
>> You seem to prefer the latter.
>>
>>
>> *> I think you, and maybe others here, may need to understand better this
>>>concept of extensible systems. That's at the very core of OpenSim from
>>>the beginning, even before I started contributing -- OpenSim is not an
>>>application, it's a platform with which to build applications.
>> *
>> I think you need to sit down

Re: [Opensim-dev] Simpler configuration files

[Fly Man]

In short, we added the config-include so the modules that ppl can
download and compile themselves don't need to be in the large
OpenSim.ini file

At this moment, there's talk about a new development that might give
the user the possibility to create their own OpenSim.ini file just by
answering some simple questions at the start.

I have ensembled a small team for this to look at this option, so in
other words:

To be continued 

2009/10/1 Melanie :
> That would make things more complicated for the average user, who
> can't reliably copy parts of one text file to another.
>
> They would also again have to read the entire file to find the
> settings they need to change.
>
> config-include was a great boon on the way to simplicity, and it is
> the direction in which we will continue. We have no intention of
> going back to one monolithic config file a new user will take hours
> to read, and despair over it.
>
> Simplification is part of the distro makers, we, as platform
> designers, are under no such onus.
>
> Melanie
>
>
> Mircea Kitsune wrote:
>> This is a topic I wanted to bring up for a while, which I think is an 
>> important part of Opensim that may need to be tweaked. In my opinion 
>> Opensims configuration files are too many and too complex, and this makes it 
>> difficult to maintain your settings especially for newer users. There's too 
>> many ini files the owner needs to edit, as well as opensim.ini being too 
>> large and a lot of work being needed  to keep your changes between 
>> opensim.ini.example updates.
>>
>> I think the issue has worsened since the config-include folder system, which 
>> spreads a part of the configuration to even more files. The settings a user 
>> must tweak in order to run Opensim are currently split between three 
>> locations: opensim.ini, Regions\myRegion.xml and config-include\*.ini. Imo 
>> this is rather difficult to maintain, and I would suggest simplifying the 
>> configuration if possible to have it use less files spread to fewer places 
>> and without the user having to follow a big file to make changes. I thought 
>> about a way to do it and this would be my idea:
>>
>> config-include would be removed and opensim.ini.example become opensim.ini 
>> containing all settings again. However the user would not have to modify 
>> anything in opensim.ini, and instead write new settings to a new .ini file 
>> (eg: mycfg.ini) which is loaded after opensim.ini and overwrites its 
>> settings. Any setting from opensim.ini that the user would want to change he 
>> would copy to mycfg.ini with the new value. For instance, if the user would 
>> only want to enable "gridmode = false" (for the sake of example) instead of 
>> editing it from opensim.ini they would go to the empty mycfg.ini and add the 
>> lines "[Startup] | gridmode = true". The order of .ini files to be loaded 
>> could be specified in a separate ini file, which would list opensim.ini 
>> first and mycfg.ini second.
>>
>> This would allow the user to keep an updated opensim.ini with all default 
>> settings, without having to manually copy everything when updating from the 
>> example file. Also they wouldn't have to chase so many lines to find an 
>> important setting they wish to tweak, but tweak it from their own little 
>> list of settings. There could even be default templates, such as 
>> standalone.ini and grid.ini. When the user wants to connect to osgrid, they 
>> just select the grid.ini template and change the network settings there, 
>> then mycfg.ini would only include sim properties like physics settings. I 
>> think a single folder with all .inis would be the best way to go.
>>
>> Just my idea of it... I know the current config-include system is somehow 
>> similar to this, but all of the main settings are still tweaked from 
>> opensim.ini copied from opensim.ini.example and the configuration is spread 
>> between opensim.ini and the files in config-include instead of being in one 
>> place. I'd like to hear more opinions on this, and how and if the 
>> configuration of Opensim could be simplified. What do you think?
>>
>> _
>> Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out!
>> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Stepping down from OpenSim core

[Fly Man]

Stefan, I think it's a loss to the OpenSim Core that you're stepping down

But I hope you find time again to climb back on board at a later time

Fly Man

2009/9/24 Justin Clark-Casey :
> Sorry to hear this Stefan - the project certainly can take up a lot of time 
> and
> I think that it's very hard to balance this (probably true for any reasonably
> sized open-source project).
>
> All the best for the future.
>
> Stefan Andersson wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> just letting you know I'm stepping down from OpenSim core.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since Tribal Media keeled over, my life situation simply does not allow
>> me neither to participate in the dev community regularly nor contribute
>> code. I have committed exactly three characters since we moved to git.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I have come to respect the most in OpenSim is the disrespectful
>> attitude against 'talk'.
>>
>>
>>
>> OpenSim has always been about participating thru effort; testing,
>> promoting, writing, coding, building. So while discussion has always
>> been welcome, any kind of demands have always been met with "do it
>> yourself, or pay someone to do it". A harsh sentiment, but ultimately
>> the only viable attitude in a project like this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean Dague disliked the term 'founding four', feeling that just because
>> you were among the first didn't automatically give you authority. Back
>> then, I didn't agree; for some time now, I have.
>>
>>
>>
>> So rather than lingering, I'm leaving.
>>
>>
>>
>> I wish to thank all core devs, past and present; thank you all
>> gridnauts, testers, hosts, customers and partners - It's been an
>> immensely satisfying ride. Hope to see you all on the 3D Web.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Stefan Andersson aka lbsa71
>>
>> http://lbsa71.net/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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>
> --
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> Justin Clark-Casey
> http://justincc.org
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[Opensim-dev] Changes to the OpenSimulator website

[Fly Man]

Since there's long talk about this:

I would like to start by giving out an announcement about the
OpenSimulator website that some people have been saying the last
months:

"What the heck is this website, what does it do and where's the info"

After I heard this over and over again, we started the Wiki Hours on
Wright Plaza on Osgrid only to hear that about everyone thinks the
same about the website.

Talking in the opensim-dev channel made me realise that it's time to
grab the bull with its horns and submit a request/suggestion to all
the questions asked.

Request to make the website OpenSimulator.org a new site:
---

* Make the current wiki a readonly version under /oldwiki

* Make a new webpage for the OpenSimulator website

** This can easily be made in Drupal or any other CMS system

* Add a new Wiki to the website that has the latest plugins and
MediaWiki version

* Check the old wiki for things that are recent enough to transport to
the new Wiki and transport them

In the opensim-dev channel was also the suggestion to add a new
category to the Mantis "Documentation" and that ppl can add Mantises
about things that need documentation.

Further: I am suggesting that there are going to be policies to abide
by (especially thanks to teravus to mention this)

Please reply on this request with a +1 or a -1 and explain why, how
you see this.
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Re: [Opensim-dev] pruning reference servers in core

[Fly Man]

+1 from me as well. I know I was against it at first but the new
ROBUST made life a lot easier on the grids I manage

2009/9/15 Nebadon Izumi :
> +1 from me, i also spoke with Adam about this and he agrees that as long as
> we dont have to rewrite the protocols for OSgrid's Asset Fragstore to
> accommodate it then its fine to remove.
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:06 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Now that summer vacation is over and everyone seems to be back, it's
>> time to revisit this thread. It's been one month, and no one has stepped
>> up to bringing the old Grid.InventoryServer up to date with the new
>> requirements. The simulators can still talk to old server, but really
>> poorly, after failures; and they don't take advantage of the new
>> streamlined interactions that avoid downloading the entire inventory
>> into the simulators.
>>
>> In this past month, OSGrid has switched the inventory service to ROBUST,
>> and lots of other grids have followed. The newly released IAR tool has
>> been developed nicely for the new interface too.
>>
>> So -- I propose we drop the old Asset and Inventory servers now, so that
>> we stop supporting old code. Any objections?
>>
>> Again, the door is always open for someone to step up and maintain those
>> servers as alternatives -- even write/maintain connectors for them, and
>> write/maintain corresponding pre-packaged configurations that use them.
>> But without that kind of commitment, we're bound to make things very
>> confusing by having multiple reference implementations of the same
>> things, some of which are not evolving, and only one pre-packaged
>> configuration that assumes the new interfaces.
>>
>> Crista
>>
>> d...@metaverseink.com wrote:
>> > Ping me when you tune in to the IRC, if you still have questions after
>> > reading this. The additions are really easy. Look in
>> > OpenSim/Server/Handlers/Inventory/InventoryServerInConnector.cs, in my
>> > local repo (the one currently in head is outdated)
>> >
>> > http://github.com/diva/Diva-s-OpenSim-Tests/blob/21b5ebdc1f59ee449f56e40d8cbb9f3f5b3de644/OpenSim/Server/Handlers/Inventory/InventoryServerInConnector.cs
>> >
>> > The 2 service handlers that you need to add and implement are these:
>> >
>> > m_httpServer.AddStreamHandler(
>> >      new RestDeserialiseSecureHandler>(
>> >     "POST", "/SystemFolders/", GetSystemFolders, CheckAuthSession));
>> >
>> > m_httpServer.AddStreamHandler(
>> >      new RestDeserialiseSecureHandler(
>> >     "POST", "/GetFolderContent/", GetFolderContent, CheckAuthSession));
>> >
>> > You can copy and paste the implementations I have there.
>> > Let me know when you're done, so that I can push my local mods.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > MW wrote:
>> >> If you can provide the details of those two handlers that need adding
>> >> to
>> >> the old servers, I can have a go at implementing them; dependent on how
>> >> much work it involves.
>> >>
>> >> --- On *Thu, 13/8/09, d...@metaverseink.com //*
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>     From: d...@metaverseink.com 
>> >>     Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] pruning reference servers in core
>> >>     To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> >>     Date: Thursday, 13 August, 2009, 5:01 PM
>> >>
>> >>     I'm fine with waiting until September before pruning reference
>> >>     implementations down to one of each. But someone needs to give love
>> >> to
>> >>     Grid.Inventory, because I don't have time for loving so many
>> >> servers :-)
>> >>
>> >>     The current improvement I'm doing right now (eliminating the need
>> >> to
>> >>     pass the entire inventory around) only works for the new-style
>> >>     inventory
>> >>     service. It can easily be made to work for the old one. Whoever
>> >> wants
>> >>     Grid.Inventory to support the simulators' [much more reasonable]
>> >> needs
>> >>     should make the necessary improvements to it.. I'll be happy to
>> >> explain
>> >>     what the server needs to do -- 2 additional service handlers. I
>> >> still
>> >>     haven't pushed my local commits, and I can wait a little bit for a
>> >>     Grid.InventoryServer lover to step up and volunteer. But I don't
>> >> think
>> >>     it's reasonable to hold this improvement until September; I already
>> >>     have
>> >>     it, and it's almost ready to be pushed out to grids out there.
>> >> Passing
>> >>     thousands of inventory items upon region crossings and TPs is
>> >> probably
>> >>     one of the worst things in OpenSim right now, and needs fixing.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>     MW wrote:
>> >>      > I'm fine with the AssetInventoryServer being removed as soon as
>> >>     possible
>> >>      > because I don't think anyone uses it.
>> >>      >
>> >>      > But believe we should at least wait a couple of more weeks
>> >> before
>> >>     the
>> >>      > Grid.InventoryServer
>> >>      > and Grid.AssetServer are removed, so that everyone gets a chance
>> >>     to have
>> >>      > their say/vote. As a number of people are on vacation around
>> >>

Re: [Opensim-dev] pruning reference servers in core

[Fly Man]

Why wait until September when the solution is already on the Wiki:

1) Delete the old Grid.Asset and Grid.Inventory servers

2) Copy the new OpenSim.Server.exe to OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe and
OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe

3) Copy the .config files: OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe.config and
OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe.config and edit them so they'll use
the same log file like they did before

4) Create the new OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.ini and
OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.ini like mentioned on the Wiki

5) Edit those like mentioned and run them

I think the solution to this "problem" is easily fixed by doing this
and commiting the whole bunch again then waiting until September

2009/8/13  :
> I'm fine with waiting until September before pruning reference
> implementations down to one of each. But someone needs to give love to
> Grid.Inventory, because I don't have time for loving so many servers :-)
>
> The current improvement I'm doing right now (eliminating the need to
> pass the entire inventory around) only works for the new-style inventory
> service. It can easily be made to work for the old one. Whoever wants
> Grid.Inventory to support the simulators' [much more reasonable] needs
> should make the necessary improvements to it. I'll be happy to explain
> what the server needs to do -- 2 additional service handlers. I still
> haven't pushed my local commits, and I can wait a little bit for a
> Grid.InventoryServer lover to step up and volunteer. But I don't think
> it's reasonable to hold this improvement until September; I already have
> it, and it's almost ready to be pushed out to grids out there. Passing
> thousands of inventory items upon region crossings and TPs is probably
> one of the worst things in OpenSim right now, and needs fixing.
>
>
> MW wrote:
>> I'm fine with the AssetInventoryServer being removed as soon as possible
>> because I don't think anyone uses it.
>>
>> But believe we should at least wait a couple of more weeks before the
>> Grid.InventoryServer
>> and Grid.AssetServer are removed, so that everyone gets a chance to have
>> their say/vote. As a number of people are on vacation around this time.
>>
>> Personally as long as the ROBUST servers are fully tested on multiple
>> grids that have a quite heavy load/userbase, then I'm okay with removing
>> the old servers, as long as there is total agreement; I know a few
>> people have said they don't want to swap to ROBUST.
>>
>>
>> --- On *Tue, 11/8/09, Frisby, Adam //* wrote:
>>
>>
>>     From: Frisby, Adam 
>>     Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] pruning reference servers in core
>>     To: "opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" 
>>     Date: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009, 10:09 PM
>>
>>     Please do. I'd like a 0.6.X release shortly after every
>>     networkinterface version change if possible - since it makes compat
>>     with the latest stable release always a headache.
>>
>>     Adam
>>
>>      > -Original Message-
>>      > From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>>     
>>     [mailto:opensim-dev-
>>      > boun...@lists.berlios.de
>>     ] On Behalf Of Justin
>>     Clark-Casey
>>      > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August 2009 12:04 PM
>>      > To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>     
>>      > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] pruning reference servers in core
>>      >
>>      > d...@metaverseink.com  wrote:
>>      > > Dear devs,
>>      > >
>>      > > I'm finally changing the way the simulator caches inventory.
>>     This is
>>      > all
>>      > > good, and it's the beginning of the much awaited user services
>>      > > refactoring. This requires a few small changes in the inventory
>>      > services
>>      > > interface, as well as additions to the implementation(s). So...
>>      > >
>>      > > We now have 3 -- yes 3! -- different inventory servers in core.
>>     (and
>>      > 3
>>      > > asset servers too). I think it's time to make a decision on what to
>>      > keep
>>      > > and what to drop, because evolving this ecosystem of
>>     implementations
>>      > in
>>      > > core is unscalable.
>>      > >
>>      > > With this, I'm proposing that we drop the old Grid.InventoryServer,
>>      > the
>>      > > old Grid.AssetServer and the AssetInventoryServer (CB1). Some
>>     people
>>      > may
>>      > > still be using the old servers, so it's time to switch everybody to
>>      > > ROBUST. Asking in the IRC, it looks like no one is using
>>      > > AssetInventoryServer.
>>      > >
>>      > > Comments? Objections?
>>      >
>>      > Might be an idea to knock out a 0.6.7 first before making that
>>     switch.
>>      >
>>      > --
>>      > justincc
>>      > Justin Clark-Casey
>>      > http://justincc.wordpress.com
>>      > ___
>>      > Opensim-dev mailing list
>>      > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>     
>>      > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>     ___
>>     Opensim-dev mailing l

Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency

[Fly Man]

Yes, that was the one I was referring too.

Melanie maintains the OpenCurrency on the Gforge and she also has a
RMT module that she's been using.

2009/7/11 Melanie :
> Well, I am maintaining the sample currency module on forge now and
> keeping it available.
>
> I believe you are aware that I have a commercial RMT module, and had
> it for more than a year.
>
> We have simply decided it can't be in core, but we are still making
> it as easy to access and integrate it as we can.
> We're not against people having money. If we were, we would have
> remove the interfaces.
> We just can't risk it in core.
>
> Melanie
>
> Fly Man wrote:
>> Well, what a long discussion about something that was already decided
>> long ago 
>>
>> There is the OpenCurrency module for those that want to play around
>> with it and there are some other ppl working on Money related things.
>>
>> The removal of the SampleMoney module was 1 of the things that I left
>> the OpenSim development scene, as the name of the module said: "It's
>> SAMPLE money"
>>
>> I know there 3 people working on a real currency module as we speak
>> and 1 of them has succesfully integrated it into the OpenSim now.
>>
>> The story continues ...
>>
>> 2009/7/8 Snowdrop Short :
>>> The core developers have for valid reasons (whatever others may think
>>> and argue, they are - at least - subjectively valid) for not including a
>>> money module.
>>>
>>> I think it would be best to let this debate rest. I believe continuing
>>> to argue for a money module to be part of the core, is showing
>>> ingratitude to the core developers who has put in such a great effort on
>>> the project and completely needless.
>>>
>>> OpenSim is licensed via BSD, one of the most liberate licenses currently
>>> in common use, nothing prevents a money module from being implemented,
>>> either in close or open source. Furthermore I am convinced that the core
>>> will accept patches for hooks, if the current hooks prove in-adequate.
>>> (This has been done for other out-of-core modules).
>>>
>>> Even if the core team should decide a money module was within the scope
>>> of the project, it would still require volunteers to implement the
>>> module, so I fail to see the real difference between an out-of-core
>>> module for handling money and an in-core one.
>>>
>>> If all the passion thrown into this debate was directed towards creating
>>> an out-of-core module, it would spring into existence quite rapidly.
>>>
>>> /Snowcrash
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 17:17 +0200, Colin B. Withers wrote:
>>>> Hi Neb,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, I do get the point, but I am simply not convinced of the
>>>> arguments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Opensim is unsafe, understandably so. Right now, it is in the alpha
>>>> stage, but that is no reason not to pursue code from alpha, through
>>>> beta, and onto release.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me put it this way, quite clearly..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If I, or anyone else, wanted to to use Opensim as a platform for a
>>>> virtual world, (not during alpha, or beta, but after it is released)
>>>> and that virtual would was to have commerce, ala SL, and due to the
>>>> Opensim policy of no currency module in core I went to a third party
>>>> and procured a currency module, I would have a situation where the two
>>>> most critical elements of a commerce system, ie:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> a) The asset server (produced by the core developers of opensim), and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> b) A currency module (produced by VW$$$.inc)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> are sourced from different suppliers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now, please explain to me the difference between:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i) People losing money due to a malfunction in the currency module,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ii) People losing assets (that have a monetary value, having been
>>>> bought with real $$$ through the currency module) due to an asset
>>>> server malfunction?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?

[Fly Man]

R.O.B.U.S.T sounds more like it

2009/7/9 Stefan Andersson :
> How about “Redesigned OpenSim Basic Universal Server Technology” –
> R.O.B.U.S.T? ;)
>
>
>
> Btw, You will hear no end of references to LoA from me:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1jzVJjk32E
>
>
>
> /Stefan
>
>
>
> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Laurent B.
> Sent: den 9 juli 2009 14:01
>
> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
>
>
>
> +1 for B.U.S.T : in B.U.S.T we trust !
>
>
>
> Laurent
>
>> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:03:58 +0200
>> From: drscofi...@xyzzyxyzzy.net
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
>> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
>>
>>
>> Sean Hennessee wrote:
>> > MW wrote:
>> >> I also would rather a different name than BUST, and also before any
>> >> protocol changes are done, see full documentation about the plans.
>> >
>> > How about BOSS? Basic Open Simulator Servers?
>>
>> +1
>>
>> --
>> dr dirk husemann  virtual worlds research  ibm zurich research lab
>> SL: dr scofield  drscofi...@xyzzyxyzzy.net  http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/
>> RL: h...@zurich.ibm.com - +41 44 724 8573 - http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/
>> ___
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
>
> 
>
> Discutez sur Messenger où que vous soyez ! Mettez Messenger sur votre mobile
> !
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency

[Fly Man]

Well, what a long discussion about something that was already decided
long ago 

There is the OpenCurrency module for those that want to play around
with it and there are some other ppl working on Money related things.

The removal of the SampleMoney module was 1 of the things that I left
the OpenSim development scene, as the name of the module said: "It's
SAMPLE money"

I know there 3 people working on a real currency module as we speak
and 1 of them has succesfully integrated it into the OpenSim now.

The story continues ...

2009/7/8 Snowdrop Short :
> The core developers have for valid reasons (whatever others may think
> and argue, they are - at least - subjectively valid) for not including a
> money module.
>
> I think it would be best to let this debate rest. I believe continuing
> to argue for a money module to be part of the core, is showing
> ingratitude to the core developers who has put in such a great effort on
> the project and completely needless.
>
> OpenSim is licensed via BSD, one of the most liberate licenses currently
> in common use, nothing prevents a money module from being implemented,
> either in close or open source. Furthermore I am convinced that the core
> will accept patches for hooks, if the current hooks prove in-adequate.
> (This has been done for other out-of-core modules).
>
> Even if the core team should decide a money module was within the scope
> of the project, it would still require volunteers to implement the
> module, so I fail to see the real difference between an out-of-core
> module for handling money and an in-core one.
>
> If all the passion thrown into this debate was directed towards creating
> an out-of-core module, it would spring into existence quite rapidly.
>
> /Snowcrash
>
>
> On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 17:17 +0200, Colin B. Withers wrote:
>> Hi Neb,
>>
>>
>>
>> No, I do get the point, but I am simply not convinced of the
>> arguments.
>>
>>
>>
>> Opensim is unsafe, understandably so. Right now, it is in the alpha
>> stage, but that is no reason not to pursue code from alpha, through
>> beta, and onto release.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let me put it this way, quite clearly..
>>
>>
>>
>> If I, or anyone else, wanted to to use Opensim as a platform for a
>> virtual world, (not during alpha, or beta, but after it is released)
>> and that virtual would was to have commerce, ala SL, and due to the
>> Opensim policy of no currency module in core I went to a third party
>> and procured a currency module, I would have a situation where the two
>> most critical elements of a commerce system, ie:
>>
>>
>>
>> a) The asset server (produced by the core developers of opensim), and
>>
>>
>>
>> b) A currency module (produced by VW$$$.inc)
>>
>>
>>
>> are sourced from different suppliers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, please explain to me the difference between:
>>
>>
>>
>> i) People losing money due to a malfunction in the currency module,
>>
>>
>>
>> ii) People losing assets (that have a monetary value, having been
>> bought with real $$$ through the currency module) due to an asset
>> server malfunction?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that there is just as much, or even more risk, of
>> people losing valuable assets from the asset server, than from the
>> currency module.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is it then the devs' position that the asset server is (or eventually
>> will be) immune from the risk of loss of assets?
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not believe that position could ever be held. Even after so much
>> development work, both on the code and the backbone, SL still loses
>> its residents' assets (the huge losses sustained by residents just 2
>> or 3 weeks ago is testament to that).
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any real difference between:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Using US$10 to buy inworld currency, that does not show up then on
>> my balance,
>>
>> 2. Getting the inworld currency, but later due to a glitch, losing US
>> $10's worth of inworld currency
>>
>> 3. Buying an object inworld that costs the inworld currency equivalent
>> to US$10, and the object disappearing from my inventory?
>>
>>
>>
>> To my mind, in all three cases, I am US$10 down.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just don't see how BOTH these statements can be true at the same
>> time:
>>
>>
>>
>> Currency module = big risk
>>
>> Asset server = no risk
>>
>>
>>
>> And I have never argued that the devs should be responsible for risk
>> (it is the devs themselves that are arguing that they have that risk,
>> and hence the need to divest themselves of it). My position is that
>> all risk is on the grid owner, and that risk can be mitigated (as SL
>> does) by a carefully worded TOS.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rock
>>
>>
>>
>> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Nebadon
>> Izumi
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 4:39 PM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rock,
>>
>> I do beleive your missing the point entirely, the reason we do not
>> wish to implement any money systems at this t

[Opensim-dev] Until we meet again or Goodbye

[Fly Man]

After 2 days of consideration and not hearing anything from the people
that I expected a response from, I came to the conclusion that it is
time to say "Goodbye"

This morning I released the 10 developers that were working on various
projects related to OpenSim and told them that I would see them again
in September for a new project

After all, that's just life ... A project stops and you send people home.


Some household things:


* The OpenSim.Search and OpenSim.Profile projects are being maintained
by Melanie, if she has time for them.

* All other projects that I did are in private mode and can be
released by a Gforge Admin if they need to go public again.


-- This isn't a simple thing for me to do, as I know many of you were
counting on a working Search and Profile.

But look on the bright side, at least now someone else can have a go
at it, make it better and sweeter  --


I am off to get myself a long vacation and after that, maybe I will
decide that OpenSim development is good again.


But I will leave you all with a Chinese Curse someone told me at a meeting once:


"May you live in interesting times"


Until we meet again


Fly Man
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Thomas,

The dispute has everything to do with OpenSim in general and not only
with those 2 people.

As it's not only OpenSimWiredux but the Search, Profile and Email
projects that are closed

And those are, at this moment, part of an OpenSim implementation.

2009/6/1 Thomas Grimshaw :
> Fly Man,
>
> Your dispute with these two people is nothing to do with us, or this
> list. You need to resolve your differences in person.
> With respect, attempting to hold projects at ransom is not going to get
> you anywhere.
>
> ~Tom
>
> Fly Man wrote:
>> Adam,
>>
>> Let's be reasonable then.
>>
>> All I am asking for is that 2 people that, in my eyes, did something
>> wrong apologize to me and say that they're sorry about it.
>>
>> Then we can leave this whole discussion behind us and go on with doing
>> the things we do best.
>>
>> Is that too much to ask from them ??
>>
>> 2009/6/1 Frisby, Adam :
>>
>>> Fly-Man-,
>>>
>>> When you bring out the big guns, and you aren't on solid ground - people 
>>> tend to look down at you - when you start a conversation out in 
>>> confrontation, then confrontation you will get.
>>>
>>> Regarding, 'revoking' the license, you simply cannot do that legally (go 
>>> check with a lawyer) - once you have placed code under one of the OSI 
>>> licenses, there is simply no way to 'undo' that action down the road. If it 
>>> were possible to undo an OSI license, then people would be setting up code, 
>>> then charging people for it retroactively years later. It also means that a 
>>> project cannot be killed by one angry developer.
>>>
>>> Likewise, you cannot change the license on an existing piece of code - you 
>>> can release new versions, or co-release the old code under a new license 
>>> (if you are the complete copyright owner and have no outside 
>>> contributions), however the old license is still considered working and 
>>> valid.
>>>
>>> Re: the forge itself - I am very, very loathe to remove any code or 
>>> projects from the forge without an exceptionally good reason. A spat with 
>>> other developers because they did something while you were gone, is not a 
>>> good reason.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
>>>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Fly Man
>>>> Sent: Sunday, 31 May 2009 7:54 PM
>>>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge
>>>>
>>>> Well, I can keep repeating myself but I won't ...
>>>>
>>>> If the 2 people that started this "meaningless discussion" just take
>>>> up the glove and stop throwing dirt, then I have no problem with
>>>> ending this discussion and reclaiming the projects and work on them
>>>> like I did before.
>>>>
>>>> But as I have read for the past 6 hours, people tend to agree on one
>>>> thing: "There can only be losers in this discussion"
>>>>
>>>> And maybe I need to explain why I am still argueing about this :
>>>>
>>>> When I develop things ( for the business that i make money with for a
>>>> living since 5 months) and someone  "forgot" to communicate with me
>>>> and started this useless discussion, that those people know that they
>>>> did something they shouldn't do a second time.
>>>>
>>>> We are all here to make OpenSim something to be proud of.
>>>>
>>>> And I enjoy working on the new technology just like every other
>>>> developer.
>>>>
>>>> But when I need to call out the big guns just to get my point set,
>>>> that disappoints me.
>>>>
>>>> 2009/6/1 Charles Krinke :
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Fly-Man:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to suggest we step back from a "point of honor" and try
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> figure out how to work together.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are times in this project when passions rise high and this is
>>>>>
>>>> one of
>>>>
>>>>> those times. I would really like to find a way to move forward
>>>>>
>>>> without
>>>>
>>>

Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Adam,

Let's be reasonable then.

All I am asking for is that 2 people that, in my eyes, did something
wrong apologize to me and say that they're sorry about it.

Then we can leave this whole discussion behind us and go on with doing
the things we do best.

Is that too much to ask from them ??

2009/6/1 Frisby, Adam :
> Fly-Man-,
>
> When you bring out the big guns, and you aren't on solid ground - people tend 
> to look down at you - when you start a conversation out in confrontation, 
> then confrontation you will get.
>
> Regarding, 'revoking' the license, you simply cannot do that legally (go 
> check with a lawyer) - once you have placed code under one of the OSI 
> licenses, there is simply no way to 'undo' that action down the road. If it 
> were possible to undo an OSI license, then people would be setting up code, 
> then charging people for it retroactively years later. It also means that a 
> project cannot be killed by one angry developer.
>
> Likewise, you cannot change the license on an existing piece of code - you 
> can release new versions, or co-release the old code under a new license (if 
> you are the complete copyright owner and have no outside contributions), 
> however the old license is still considered working and valid.
>
> Re: the forge itself - I am very, very loathe to remove any code or projects 
> from the forge without an exceptionally good reason. A spat with other 
> developers because they did something while you were gone, is not a good 
> reason.
>
> Adam
>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Fly Man
>> Sent: Sunday, 31 May 2009 7:54 PM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge
>>
>> Well, I can keep repeating myself but I won't ...
>>
>> If the 2 people that started this "meaningless discussion" just take
>> up the glove and stop throwing dirt, then I have no problem with
>> ending this discussion and reclaiming the projects and work on them
>> like I did before.
>>
>> But as I have read for the past 6 hours, people tend to agree on one
>> thing: "There can only be losers in this discussion"
>>
>> And maybe I need to explain why I am still argueing about this :
>>
>> When I develop things ( for the business that i make money with for a
>> living since 5 months) and someone  "forgot" to communicate with me
>> and started this useless discussion, that those people know that they
>> did something they shouldn't do a second time.
>>
>> We are all here to make OpenSim something to be proud of.
>>
>> And I enjoy working on the new technology just like every other
>> developer.
>>
>> But when I need to call out the big guns just to get my point set,
>> that disappoints me.
>>
>> 2009/6/1 Charles Krinke :
>> >
>> > Dear Fly-Man:
>> >
>> > I would like to suggest we step back from a "point of honor" and try
>> to
>> > figure out how to work together.
>> >
>> > There are times in this project when passions rise high and this is
>> one of
>> > those times. I would really like to find a way to move forward
>> without
>> > pushing anyone into a corner.
>> >
>> > Your enthusiasm, work ethic and code has been good for the grid
>> deployments
>> > and all I can say is that I am sorry that you and others have gotten
>> to the
>> > place where the need exists to make the statements said today.
>> >
>> > So, please, please, lets figure out how to just work together.
>> >
>> > Charles
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 
>> > From: Fly Man 
>> > To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:53:35 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge
>> >
>> > Kyle, please read back what I posted earlier before you start to
>> throw
>> > with words that I won't respond to:
>> >
>> > * There's 2 people that just need to apoligize and then we can all
>> get
>> > back to what we're good in.
>> >
>> > Unless those people step up and take responsibilty about their
>> > actions, then it means that on the 2nd of June
>> > I need to consult with a lawyer about the further steps that need to
>> be
>> > taken
>> >
>> > 2

Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Well, I can keep repeating myself but I won't ...

If the 2 people that started this "meaningless discussion" just take
up the glove and stop throwing dirt, then I have no problem with
ending this discussion and reclaiming the projects and work on them
like I did before.

But as I have read for the past 6 hours, people tend to agree on one
thing: "There can only be losers in this discussion"

And maybe I need to explain why I am still argueing about this :

When I develop things ( for the business that i make money with for a
living since 5 months) and someone  "forgot" to communicate with me
and started this useless discussion, that those people know that they
did something they shouldn't do a second time.

We are all here to make OpenSim something to be proud of.

And I enjoy working on the new technology just like every other developer.

But when I need to call out the big guns just to get my point set,
that disappoints me.

2009/6/1 Charles Krinke :
>
> Dear Fly-Man:
>
> I would like to suggest we step back from a "point of honor" and try to
> figure out how to work together.
>
> There are times in this project when passions rise high and this is one of
> those times. I would really like to find a way to move forward without
> pushing anyone into a corner.
>
> Your enthusiasm, work ethic and code has been good for the grid deployments
> and all I can say is that I am sorry that you and others have gotten to the
> place where the need exists to make the statements said today.
>
> So, please, please, lets figure out how to just work together.
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Fly Man 
> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:53:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge
>
> Kyle, please read back what I posted earlier before you start to throw
> with words that I won't respond to:
>
> * There's 2 people that just need to apoligize and then we can all get
> back to what we're good in.
>
> Unless those people step up and take responsibilty about their
> actions, then it means that on the 2nd of June
> I need to consult with a lawyer about the further steps that need to be
> taken
>
> 2009/6/1 Kyle Hamilton :
>> How about you check out the subversion tree at the last revision
>> without the "whole mess that it is now"?  That's what revision control
>> systems are for, so you can check out old revisions.  You can control
>> your own experience -- while everyone else can cooperate as they want
>> to.
>>
>> You should do this instead of bitching on the mailing list and
>> essentially saying "IT'S MY BALL AND I'M GOING HOME".
>>
>> You're thus making a huge deal out of, literally, nothing.  Which
>> means you're a drama whore at best, and a troll at worst.
>>
>> Get a grip.  I will also point out that the main OpenSim project trunk
>> isn't clean, and that branches are made to maintain specific
>> milestones, and so your objection to "as long as the main trunk is
>> clean" isn't even in line with what the community has (loosely)
>> standardized on.  Yes, this might fly in the face of other projects'
>> conventions, but this is what we have to deal with and have to live
>> with as a part of working with OpenSim.
>>
>> -Kyle H
>>
>> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Fly Man 
>> wrote:
>>> Ideia, this problem can easily be resolved by 2 people that just say
>>> sorry and revert back the things that they added to the OpenSimWiredux
>>> so I can take a clean copy of the code without the whole mess that it
>>> is now.
>>>
>>> So, in other words as some won't know what I said on #opensim-dev:
>>>
>>> Jamenai: Please send me an email, explaining why you added things to
>>> the Wiredux, stating that you didn't contact me before adding this and
>>> that you will revert the source back to the rev that I added. It's
>>> okay with me to make a new branch where you fiddle with all your stuff
>>> as long as the main trunk is clean
>>>
>>> Nebadon: Please send me an email, telling me that you were wrong to
>>> think that I left the scene just because of the Money Debacle. And
>>> that you did know about me being in a small holiday until the 1st of
>>> June as mentioned in several announcements that I did on all the IRC
>>> channels.
>>>
>>> When those 2 people have made their excuses, I will no longer have a
>>> need to ask for deletion of the projects and will be

Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Kyle, please read back what I posted earlier before you start to throw
with words that I won't respond to:

* There's 2 people that just need to apoligize and then we can all get
back to what we're good in.

Unless those people step up and take responsibilty about their
actions, then it means that on the 2nd of June
I need to consult with a lawyer about the further steps that need to be taken

2009/6/1 Kyle Hamilton :
> How about you check out the subversion tree at the last revision
> without the "whole mess that it is now"?  That's what revision control
> systems are for, so you can check out old revisions.  You can control
> your own experience -- while everyone else can cooperate as they want
> to.
>
> You should do this instead of bitching on the mailing list and
> essentially saying "IT'S MY BALL AND I'M GOING HOME".
>
> You're thus making a huge deal out of, literally, nothing.  Which
> means you're a drama whore at best, and a troll at worst.
>
> Get a grip.  I will also point out that the main OpenSim project trunk
> isn't clean, and that branches are made to maintain specific
> milestones, and so your objection to "as long as the main trunk is
> clean" isn't even in line with what the community has (loosely)
> standardized on.  Yes, this might fly in the face of other projects'
> conventions, but this is what we have to deal with and have to live
> with as a part of working with OpenSim.
>
> -Kyle H
>
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Fly Man  wrote:
>> Ideia, this problem can easily be resolved by 2 people that just say
>> sorry and revert back the things that they added to the OpenSimWiredux
>> so I can take a clean copy of the code without the whole mess that it
>> is now.
>>
>> So, in other words as some won't know what I said on #opensim-dev:
>>
>> Jamenai: Please send me an email, explaining why you added things to
>> the Wiredux, stating that you didn't contact me before adding this and
>> that you will revert the source back to the rev that I added. It's
>> okay with me to make a new branch where you fiddle with all your stuff
>> as long as the main trunk is clean
>>
>> Nebadon: Please send me an email, telling me that you were wrong to
>> think that I left the scene just because of the Money Debacle. And
>> that you did know about me being in a small holiday until the 1st of
>> June as mentioned in several announcements that I did on all the IRC
>> channels.
>>
>> When those 2 people have made their excuses, I will no longer have a
>> need to ask for deletion of the projects and will be a happy camper
>> once again.
>>
>> It's not in my natural nature to be like this, but for some people
>> this might sound like nagging.
>>
>> No, it's not nagging, it's getting right what is wrong at this moment.
>>
>> 2009/6/1 Ideia Boa :
>>> Fly-Man
>>>
>>> I do not know who is right in your disagreement, but I think if you had
>>> something you were thinking that was not being done in the most correct, I
>>> think the only way would have launched the discussion on mail-list
>>> #opensim-dev and not just you away from everything and remove the work you
>>> did, the work of all is very important and only a small opinion can make a
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> See that I am not defending anyone, I'm only making an observation of what I
>>> read in a mail-list
>>>
>>>
>>> Ideia Boa
>>> www.worldsimterra.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fly Man wrote:
>>>
>>> Addition to the previous message:
>>>
>>> This means that all the source needs to be deleted as stated under
>>> BSD.license and will not be re-uploaded to the Gforge or any other Gforge or
>>> SVN like system.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Ideia, this problem can easily be resolved by 2 people that just say
sorry and revert back the things that they added to the OpenSimWiredux
so I can take a clean copy of the code without the whole mess that it
is now.

So, in other words as some won't know what I said on #opensim-dev:

Jamenai: Please send me an email, explaining why you added things to
the Wiredux, stating that you didn't contact me before adding this and
that you will revert the source back to the rev that I added. It's
okay with me to make a new branch where you fiddle with all your stuff
as long as the main trunk is clean

Nebadon: Please send me an email, telling me that you were wrong to
think that I left the scene just because of the Money Debacle. And
that you did know about me being in a small holiday until the 1st of
June as mentioned in several announcements that I did on all the IRC
channels.

When those 2 people have made their excuses, I will no longer have a
need to ask for deletion of the projects and will be a happy camper
once again.

It's not in my natural nature to be like this, but for some people
this might sound like nagging.

No, it's not nagging, it's getting right what is wrong at this moment.

2009/6/1 Ideia Boa :
> Fly-Man
>
> I do not know who is right in your disagreement, but I think if you had
> something you were thinking that was not being done in the most correct, I
> think the only way would have launched the discussion on mail-list
> #opensim-dev and not just you away from everything and remove the work you
> did, the work of all is very important and only a small opinion can make a
> difference.
>
> See that I am not defending anyone, I'm only making an observation of what I
> read in a mail-list
>
>
> Ideia Boa
> www.worldsimterra.com
>
>
>
> Fly Man wrote:
>
> Addition to the previous message:
>
> This means that all the source needs to be deleted as stated under
> BSD.license and will not be re-uploaded to the Gforge or any other Gforge or
> SVN like system.
>
>
> 
> ___
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> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Well, there is a way to revoke that and that has just been done.

The projects are closed. In the meanwhile, development has seized on
those projects (which I personally think is just wrong because this
can be solved by 2 people)

I clearly stated to people that I wasn't happy about the way some
things were handled before and that I would be away for some time.

That people then start to make assumptions about things and start to
change things on their own is just wrong.

2009/5/31 Thomas Grimshaw :
> Fly Man,
>
> It simply doesn't work like that. You didn't make any mention of a
> creative commons license at the time of posting. The projects have been
> clearly tagged as BSD, i'm afraid there's no way for you to revoke that.
>
> Tom.
>
> Fly Man wrote:
>> Thomas, everything I posted on the Gforge is under my own license
>> first, then the BSD license applies.
>>
>> So in other words, my own license is CC Attribution-Noncommercial-No
>> Derivative Works
>>
>> After that, the BSD license that the Gforge has.
>>
>> 2009/5/31 Thomas Grimshaw 
>>
>>> Fly Man,
>>>
>>> Everything that you posted on Forge under the BSD license is in the
>>> public domain. Of course, anything else you have made publicly is not.
>>>
>>> I hope that your quarrel works itself out.
>>>
>>> ~Tom
>>>
>>> Fly Man wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's still a restriction on the things I made personally, those are
>>>> licensed to me.
>>>>
>>>> Those aren't available on the trunks of those projects and those
>>>> pieces are closed source.
>>>>
>>>> As long as the 2 things I mentioned in the #opensim-dev are being
>>>> handled, I won't have to call upon these drastic measurements.
>>>>
>>>> 2009/5/31 Mike Dickson mailto:mike.dick...@hp.com>>
>>>>
>>>>     I'm only using the WiRedux stuff of the modules you listed personally.
>>>>     But I don't think the BSD license works the way you think it does.
>>>>     Attribution is certainly required by the license and no reason you
>>>>     couldn't do a closed source version based on it.  But what you put out
>>>>     under a BSD license is sort of in the wild. There's no real
>>>>     provision to
>>>>     restrict after the fact...
>>>>
>>>>     Mike
>>>>
>>>>     On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 17:29 +, Fly Man wrote:
>>>>     > Addition to the previous message:
>>>>     >
>>>>     > This means that all the source needs to be deleted as stated under
>>>>     > BSD.license and will not be re-uploaded to the Gforge or any other
>>>>     > Gforge or SVN like system.
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>
>>>>     ___
>>>>     Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>     Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de <mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de>
>>>>     https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Thomas, everything I posted on the Gforge is under my own license
first, then the BSD license applies.

So in other words, my own license is CC Attribution-Noncommercial-No
Derivative Works

After that, the BSD license that the Gforge has.

2009/5/31 Thomas Grimshaw 
>
> Fly Man,
>
> Everything that you posted on Forge under the BSD license is in the
> public domain. Of course, anything else you have made publicly is not.
>
> I hope that your quarrel works itself out.
>
> ~Tom
>
> Fly Man wrote:
> > There's still a restriction on the things I made personally, those are
> > licensed to me.
> >
> > Those aren't available on the trunks of those projects and those
> > pieces are closed source.
> >
> > As long as the 2 things I mentioned in the #opensim-dev are being
> > handled, I won't have to call upon these drastic measurements.
> >
> > 2009/5/31 Mike Dickson mailto:mike.dick...@hp.com>>
> >
> >     I'm only using the WiRedux stuff of the modules you listed personally.
> >     But I don't think the BSD license works the way you think it does.
> >     Attribution is certainly required by the license and no reason you
> >     couldn't do a closed source version based on it.  But what you put out
> >     under a BSD license is sort of in the wild. There's no real
> >     provision to
> >     restrict after the fact...
> >
> >     Mike
> >
> >     On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 17:29 +, Fly Man wrote:
> >     > Addition to the previous message:
> >     >
> >     > This means that all the source needs to be deleted as stated under
> >     > BSD.license and will not be re-uploaded to the Gforge or any other
> >     > Gforge or SVN like system.
> >     >
> >     >
> >
> >     ___
> >     Opensim-dev mailing list
> >     Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de <mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de>
> >     https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

But I will be waiting for a positive ending of this misunderstanding between
developers that not have tried to communicate with each other

2009/5/31 Mike Dickson 

> I'm only using the WiRedux stuff of the modules you listed personally.
> But I don't think the BSD license works the way you think it does.
> Attribution is certainly required by the license and no reason you
> couldn't do a closed source version based on it.  But what you put out
> under a BSD license is sort of in the wild. There's no real provision to
> restrict after the fact...
>
> Mike
>
> On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 17:29 +, Fly Man wrote:
> > Addition to the previous message:
> >
> > This means that all the source needs to be deleted as stated under
> > BSD.license and will not be re-uploaded to the Gforge or any other
> > Gforge or SVN like system.
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

There's still a restriction on the things I made personally, those are
licensed to me.

Those aren't available on the trunks of those projects and those pieces are
closed source.

As long as the 2 things I mentioned in the #opensim-dev are being handled, I
won't have to call upon these drastic measurements.

2009/5/31 Mike Dickson 

> I'm only using the WiRedux stuff of the modules you listed personally.
> But I don't think the BSD license works the way you think it does.
> Attribution is certainly required by the license and no reason you
> couldn't do a closed source version based on it.  But what you put out
> under a BSD license is sort of in the wild. There's no real provision to
> restrict after the fact...
>
> Mike
>
> On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 17:29 +, Fly Man wrote:
> > Addition to the previous message:
> >
> > This means that all the source needs to be deleted as stated under
> > BSD.license and will not be re-uploaded to the Gforge or any other
> > Gforge or SVN like system.
> >
> >
>
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[Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Addition to the previous message:

This means that all the source needs to be deleted as stated under
BSD.license and will not be re-uploaded to the Gforge or any other Gforge or
SVN like system.
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[Opensim-dev] Removal of project on GForge

[Fly Man]

Goodmorning everyone,

As a result of argument between Nebadon, Jamenai and myself about
OpenWiredux I decided to step down as a developer on that project.

Also the other projects that I maintain have seized development.

Please remove the following projects from the Gforge asap as they'll be
closed source until further notice:

- OpenEmail
- OpenProfile
- OpenSearch (depending on Melanie if she want it)
- TerrainSculptor
- OpenSim.Gui
- OpenWiredux

I would like to receive an email with the confirmation that all of these
projects have been deleted from the Gforge.

There will be a check afterwards to make sure the projects have succesfully
been deleted.
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Re: [Opensim-dev] MoneyModule Breaking changes. Warning! Action Required.

[Fly Man]

Good afternoon all,

The code for the SampleMoney from SVN has been transported to a Gforge
project

http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/opencurrency/

Fly Man


2009/5/9 Teravus Ovares 

> Good morning everyone,
>
> The OpenSimulator core developers have voted to remove all code and
> logic from SVN that maintains and manages any state related to
> money/currency.   This affects anyone who was previously using the
> SampleMoneyModule and the XMLRPC external hooks for outside code.
>
> The IMoneyModule interface will still exist, and the now crippled
> SampleMoneyModule has been moved to it's own assembly that we intend
> for people to replace with a module that they developed individually.
> OpenSim.Region.ReplaceableModules.MoneyModule.dll
>
> If you previously used the MoneyModule External XMLRPC hooks, please
> consult with the OpenSimWi developers.  They are continuing the effort
> there.
>
> I repeat, these changes are breaking to users and module developers.
> This notice will give you time to evaluate changes that need to be
> made to accomodate the new structure.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Teravus
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[Opensim-dev] Ini file(s) loading

[Fly Man]

I would like to know why we load the OpenSim.ini at first

Working on some region server that will enable or disable things whatever
the region is that they're commited to. This means I need to change code by
hand now

The OpenSim.ini is the standard one, then I want to disable or enable bits
(different ScriptEngine, different Physics Engine) and at this time this is
not a possibility

So I would like to have a option that loads the OpenSim.ini at first, then
loads the stuff in another folder "extended" or be able to grab additional
things from the web
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