Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of > catching up with Linux distributions like Ubuntu and > can then set it's sights on a real desktop solution. > I think Mac OS/X is the only existing real > replacement for Windows for use by the general > public. I just came back from an excursion to Ubuntu 7.something (Dapper Drake) because I was trying to figure out that gethrtime() problem for Dennis, and, well, it looks and behaves exactly like Nevada. That's understandable since they both use GNOME, but what is not understandable to me is, what's all the fuss? They're almost identical in usability. A couple of memorabilia I brought back from that trip: a) on Ubuntu, my laptop's sound worked (the driver for the ChipSet hasn't been ported from sparc to i86pc on Solaris yet) b) the color scheme was obviously different than Nevada, but else they were the same! c) Ubuntu had a slightly newer GNOME, but I don't think that's an issue because Nevada is work in progress d) networking was *unreliable* in Ubuntu: the eth0 and eth1 were switched; the ifconfig command was obviously a homegrown attempt, diverging from the standard `ifconfig` command in System V e) Ubuntu kept trying to do DHCP, no matter what, in the most braindead way possible f) the GUI to configure networking did not work under Ubuntu - quite simply, there was no effect! One could tell where Nevada is lagging behind, and that is polishing the look (lots of icons are still missing in the start menu, something Ubuntu had), and audio effects, something that Ubuntu had polished but Nevada still has some polishing work to do. But, Nevada shone through again in terms of consistency (`ifconfig`) and ease of use, provided one was on equal footing on both systems (and I am definitely no stranger to Linux). All in all, I don't see what the fuss about Ubuntu is. On the surface it's almost identical to Nevada? And it took me a while to figure out what their "universe" and "multiverse" thing is... and apt-get still wouldn't pull and/or find the "tcsh" package. Pretty annoying for something so hyped up as `apt-get` and `dpkg`. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Fwd: Sun Device Detection Tool 1.2 is released
On 8/5/07, W. Wayne Liauh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How do I specify my $yourIP when operating as a dhcp client? > Use the loopback IP address 127.0.0.1, simply add your hostname to the existing line in /etc/hosts, beginning with 127.0.0.1 (and ::1 for IPv6) Patrick Ale WickedWicky ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 01:31 -0700, UNIX admin wrote: > > My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of > > catching up with Linux distributions like Ubuntu and > > can then set it's sights on a real desktop solution. > > I think Mac OS/X is the only existing real > > replacement for Windows for use by the general > > public. > > I just came back from an excursion to Ubuntu 7.something (Dapper > Drake) because I was trying to figure out that gethrtime() problem for > Dennis, and, well, it looks and behaves exactly like Nevada. That's > understandable since they both use GNOME, but what is not > understandable to me is, what's all the fuss? They're almost identical > in usability. > > A couple of memorabilia I brought back from that trip: > > a) on Ubuntu, my laptop's sound worked (the driver for the ChipSet > hasn't been ported from sparc to i86pc on Solaris yet) Have tried OpenSound? > b) the color scheme was obviously different than Nevada, but else they > were the same! > > c) Ubuntu had a slightly newer GNOME, but I don't think that's an > issue because Nevada is work in progress Hmm, well, both of them use GNOME - 7.04 uses GNOME 2.18.0 and Solaris uses 2.18.2 - which is actually a new version. > d) networking was *unreliable* in Ubuntu: the eth0 and eth1 were > switched; the ifconfig command was obviously a homegrown attempt, > diverging from the standard `ifconfig` command in System V Try using wireless with wpa - experience the joyful pain. > e) Ubuntu kept trying to do DHCP, no matter what, in the most > braindead way possible > > f) the GUI to configure networking did not work under Ubuntu - quite > simply, there was no effect! One could say the same thing about the Network tool in Solaris right now; activate/deactive don't work, for instance. > One could tell where Nevada is lagging behind, and that is polishing > the look (lots of icons are still missing in the start menu, something > Ubuntu had), and audio effects, something that Ubuntu had polished but > Nevada still has some polishing work to do. But, Nevada shone through > again in terms of consistency (`ifconfig`) and ease of use, provided > one was on equal footing on both systems (and I am definitely no > stranger to Linux). > > All in all, I don't see what the fuss about Ubuntu is. On the surface > it's almost identical to Nevada? And it took me a while to figure out > what their "universe" and "multiverse" thing is... and apt-get still > wouldn't pull and/or find the "tcsh" package. Pretty annoying for > something so hyped up as `apt-get` and `dpkg`. Shuttleworth is the Steve Jobs of the Linux world - I'm sure if I had a few bottles of wine under my belt, I too could bounce around hyping Solaris to the sky and beyond. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> Have tried OpenSound? Yes, I have, and I have an extremely negative opinion of it. First, sound via OpenSound was a hit'n'miss - after some fiddling, the sound *might* start working. This made it unreliable and frustrating to use. Second, the software as delivered is a very, very nasty hack that violates just about every known System V standard and spec in existence. For instance, the drivers are started by an /etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back then when I tried the software, no package had been delivered, the binaries were written into /usr, and so on. Extremely unprofessional, inspite of the firm's claim that they've "done UNIX for a very long time". If they have, then they learned very little in that time period about UNIX, apart from programming audio hardware on it. It was a really bleak day for me when it was anounced that OpenSound will be integrated into OpenSolaris. I would rather have no sound than have that stuff mess up the integrity of my operating system. I would rather port the sparc driver myself than take the "easy way out" and install that hack of software on my systems. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
UNIX admin wrote: > > Second, the software as delivered is a very, very nasty hack that violates > just about every known System V standard and spec in existence. > > For instance, the drivers are started by an /etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back > then when I tried the software, no package had been delivered, the binaries > were written into /usr, and so on. Extremely unprofessional, inspite of the > firm's claim that they've "done UNIX for a very long time". If they have, > then they learned very little in that time period about UNIX, apart from > programming audio hardware on it. > > It pays yo check your facts before slagging someone off, the current version is delivered as a package. They do still use /etc/init.d scripts to start OSS, but that can be fixed as part of the integration. > It was a really bleak day for me when it was anounced that OpenSound will be > integrated into OpenSolaris. > > I would rather have no sound than have that stuff mess up the integrity of my > operating system. > If something is integrated, how can it mess with the integrity of your operating system? Ian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> One could say the same thing about the Network tool > in Solaris right > now; activate/deactive don't work, for instance. "activate/deactivate"? What is that??? I ended up starting a GNOME terminal in Ubuntu and doing `ifconfig` the good ol' fashioned old-skool way. Eventually I got the interfaces, the routing and the DNS squared away, but Ubuntu kept trying to "unconfigure" my work and do DHCP the whole time; no matter; I've got the command line, which makes me the boss. Nothing beats the CLI, ever. I don't even know there are any GUI tools on Solaris for networking? What would I use them for, I can configure networking on Solaris within 15 seconds with my eyes blindfolded and hands tied behind my back, it's that easy. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] No virtual nic
I have just download and installed n66 on a new Intel machine and have xen up and running. I am trying to create a new Virtual machine but I get no NIC available to choose either on physical of virtual, I have tried to create a new virtual network but the wizard refuses to complete. # dladm show-link iprb0 type: legacymtu: 1500 device: iprb0 # svccfg -s xctl/xend listprop | grep nic config/default-nic astring iprb0 Any ideas This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> > For instance, the drivers are started by an > /etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back then when I tried > the software, no package had been delivered, the > binaries were written into /usr, and so on. Extremely > unprofessional, inspite of the firm's claim that > they've "done UNIX for a very long time". If they > have, then they learned very little in that time > period about UNIX, apart from programming audio > hardware on it. > > > > > It pays yo check your facts before slagging someone > off, the current > version is delivered as a package. What's it say up there? It says: "back then when I tried the software", that's what it says. Black on white. > They do still use > /etc/init.d > scripts to start OSS, but that can be fixed as part > of the integration. Pardon me if I'm not enthusiastic or thrilled about it. I'm quite sure the majority is hyped up about it though. > If something is integrated, how can it mess with the > integrity of your > operating system? To this I write: we'll just see how well it will be "integrated" with the operating system. I do beg your pardon for being skeptical about it, considering the company's track record. (And I don't mean Sun.) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 03:31 -0700, UNIX admin wrote: > > One could say the same thing about the Network tool > > in Solaris right > > now; activate/deactive don't work, for instance. > > "activate/deactivate"? What is that??? Excuse me? you claim you run Solaris and yet ignore the elephant in the room which is in: Administrator -> Network ? > I ended up starting a GNOME terminal in Ubuntu and doing `ifconfig` > the good ol' fashioned old-skool way. Eventually I got the interfaces, > the routing and the DNS squared away, but Ubuntu kept trying to > "unconfigure" my work and do DHCP the whole time; no matter; I've got > the command line, which makes me the boss. Nothing beats the CLI, > ever. For you, but for me, I can do both, but I want it quick and easy - one click. > I don't even know there are any GUI tools on Solaris for networking? > What would I use them for, I can configure networking on Solaris > within 15 seconds with my eyes blindfolded and hands tied behind my > back, it's that easy. Dear god - beating of chests is the last thing that UNIX needs for wider adoption. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
UNIX admin wrote: >>> For instance, the drivers are started by an >>> >> /etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back then when I tried >> the software, no package had been delivered, the >> binaries were written into /usr, and so on. Extremely >> unprofessional, inspite of the firm's claim that >> they've "done UNIX for a very long time". If they >> have, then they learned very little in that time >> period about UNIX, apart from programming audio >> hardware on it. >> >>> >>> >> It pays yo check your facts before slagging someone >> off, the current >> version is delivered as a package. >> > > What's it say up there? It says: "back then when I tried the software", > that's what it says. Black on white. > By that logic, I could say "back when I tried Solaris, it didn't support my hardware". What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, check out the current version first. >> If something is integrated, how can it mess with the >> integrity of your >> operating system? >> > > To this I write: we'll just see how well it will be "integrated" with the > operating system. I do beg your pardon for being skeptical about it, > considering the company's track record. (And I don't mean Sun.) > > Well, OSS worked on an failed to bugger up everything I've tried it on over the past 10 years or so. This being OpenSolaris, I'm sure you can chip in and help. Ian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
> Adobe alternatives: > http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/contentcreation/0,101068,39286832,00.htm > Homesite: http://www.osalt.com/nvu > MYOB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TurboCASH > Quicken: http://www.linux.com/articles/49400 See, I'm a recent Windows convert. I wasn't a fan of it, until I found an alternative few months ago that pleased me. That being Solaris. Now to the quote, no offense, did you actually use the actual applications and compared them to the alternatives you presented? Functionally and usability-wise, the open source equivalents are jokes. Just last night I was about to get a s%&# fit about GIMP, because while trying to be a Photoshop clone, it's being completely obnoxious about it and introduces me to semantics that make absolutely no sense in a editing and designing context. While I can easily cope with issues like that and grudgingly adapt (after all, my computer skills come from trial and erroring since I was 7 years old), someone else may just be annoyed and go back to good old Windows and the actual professional applications. Part of the gaining users is also having the big apps available. Something that isn't the case today, not even with Linux. I suppose, e.g. the Adobe applications can be very easily ported, considering MacOSX is BSD and as such probably able to compile on Solaris/Linux without much troubles, and that the Creative Suite uses a custom windowing kit ported to both Windows and MacOSX, that could aswell be ported to X11. Maybe this is a venue for Sun to try pushing some big apps onto their platform. Personally, I'm going as far as running Windows in QEMU, and some RDP hacks when I feel like I need the apps on the desktop, to use various kindof-lightweight applications, like the Microsoft Office suite. -mg This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> Well, OSS worked on an failed to bugger up everything I've tried it on > over the past 10 years or so. This being OpenSolaris, I'm sure you > can > chip in and help. Hmm, OSS in the past, I had experience problems with - since 4.0 was released, it worked beautifully. About the only gripe I have with it is that OSS and GNOME Sound Recorder/CDE Recorder is broken - hopefully in future builds, once OpenSound has be fully integrated into OpenSolaris, it should make things work out of the box without any problems. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 04:52 -0700, Mario Goebbels wrote: > > Adobe alternatives: > http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/contentcreation/0,101068,39286832,00.htm > > Homesite: http://www.osalt.com/nvu > > MYOB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TurboCASH > > Quicken: http://www.linux.com/articles/49400 > > See, I'm a recent Windows convert. I wasn't a fan of it, until I found > an alternative few months ago that pleased me. That being Solaris. > > Now to the quote, no offense, did you actually use the actual > applications and compared them to the alternatives you presented? > Functionally and usability-wise, the open source equivalents are > jokes. > > Just last night I was about to get a s%&# fit about GIMP, because > while trying to be a Photoshop clone, it's being completely obnoxious > about it and introduces me to semantics that make absolutely no sense > in a editing and designing context. > > While I can easily cope with issues like that and grudgingly adapt > (after all, my computer skills come from trial and erroring since I > was 7 years old), someone else may just be annoyed and go back to good > old Windows and the actual professional applications. > > Part of the gaining users is also having the big apps available. > Something that isn't the case today, not even with Linux. I suppose, > e.g. the Adobe applications can be very easily ported, considering > MacOSX is BSD and as such probably able to compile on Solaris/Linux > without much troubles, and that the Creative Suite uses a custom > windowing kit ported to both Windows and MacOSX, that could aswell be > ported to X11. > > Maybe this is a venue for Sun to try pushing some big apps onto their > platform. > > Personally, I'm going as far as running Windows in QEMU, and some RDP > hacks when I feel like I need the apps on the desktop, to use various > kindof-lightweight applications, like the Microsoft Office suite. Regarding GIMP, 2.4 will apparently take more of a "Photoshop look" - but ultimately the only real possibility is for Sun to work with wine and improve Windows compatibility - Adobe has flat out refused to support Sun and Solaris. There is very little Sun can do when Adobe is unwilling to play ball. It would be interesting to know whether Corel is willing to create a partnership in regards to Sun paying Corel in conjunction with mainsoft, to getting their applications running on Solaris. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
> My impression is that a current Nevada build with > Gnome desktop > will not work decently if it has less than 2 GB of > RAM. > > This is really bad. Firefox + Xserver will soon > consume 1.3 GB together > and a 1 GB system will start excessive paging. Is > this really needed? My system runs since yesterday noon without a reboot. My Firefox session is about 4 hours old. All together, it eats 320 megabytes currently. Yesterday evening I was also running Thunderbird for hours, as well running Compiz Fusion 0.5.1, watching a video with mplayer and using GIMP the same time, flipping across workspaces using the Expo plugin. Pagefile usage was 0% (Yes, I sometimes I paranoidly watch that indicator, because of the ZFS ARC and its default minimum memory claim, which is considerably). The only time I get it to trash to the swapfile is when running SecondLife. Just giving an example. If Xorg and Firefox make your system trash, then I suppose there's a huge problem somewhere else. (Using snv_65 here.) -mg This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
> More on the OS and why Solaris has the technology to > beat Windows as a game and other application > development platform: > http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story > 14918 On a related note, what I'd like to see is all various operating systems agreeing on a standard core API, on which such sandboxes, like mentioned in the article, could sit on and just run flawlessly (more or less). But that'll continue to be a dream. -mg This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a
> Gary Gendel wrote: > > For example: why install Sendmail if the user only > uses Thunderbird as a mail client? The only reason I > can think of is to support things like cron when it > needs to tell something that something is amiss. To > me cron shouldn't require a main server running on > the current host. It is these types of details that > keep the system complexity up plus confound and > confuse the home user > > The reason for this is that the bulk of UNIX users > have traditionally > used MUAs that didn't "talk" SMTP, and thus, relied > upon Sendmail or > some other MTA to send the actual mail (mutt, dtmail, > etc. are all > examples of these MUAs). Sendmail has also been used > to send mail off > after a job has completed (say, some scientific > workload). > > It might be the case that the ways of UNIX users have > changed from > tradition and Solaris should play catch up, but it > might also be the > case that you're looking at this from a somewhat > narrow, single > perspective. Its been my experience users that > migrate from Windows to > Linux have this problem. They tend to have the > mindset that what's > unneeded to them is generally what's unneeded to > everyone, because of > problems that are localized to Windows. I understand why sendmail is used, but I strongly believe we should have an eye towards a minimal implementation as we move forward. I don't put much stock in, "that's the way it has always been done". This is the mold that needs to be broken in order to move towards a "common man" desktop. I may have a narrow view, but I believe that I can provide a reasonable argument against the trend to assume unlimited resources are available. Many moons ago I wrote a logic simulator for IC design on a Sparc IPC with only 48 Megs of memory. I sold to one company that used the prevalent commercial simulator of the day. They had to have a server running 1/2 Gig of memory in order to do their simulations and could only run one simulation at a time for their entire department with this setup. I replaced it with my simulator that could do a simulation in 1/10th the time with better and more accurate results plus ran happily on each engineer's workstation. Talk about productivity improvement! Most modern X11 window managers alone would kill such a limited system today. At that time the OS took 8 Megs and X-windows/FVWM took another 12 Megs. Today, I find that many applications are written without any thought of resource conservation. Most Windows users won't take the time to shut off most of the unneeded services that are running on a stock installation, but I do. It improves boot/shutdown time and stability in the long run. Sendmail was just one example, but there are a lot more. I was just trying to make a point about the value of simplicity. For the desktop, would it be so terrible to replace the sendmail executable with one that runs "as needed" to support legacy programs that currently require it and not take a chunk out of the available resources all the time? I believe that the common home user does mostly email and web browsing. Given that in mind, can we really justify requiring many of these types of "workspace domain" services? These tend to bloat and slow down the system and degrade the user experience, but don't provide any real benefit. We can always add services for the more sophisticated user if required. This has the additional benefit of choice (sendmail, qmail, postfix, etc.). I was just adding to the original posting that asked us to reevaluate our intended audience. I see great merit in that. For my use, I have no issue with the existing situation, but if thought about from the majority of desktop users I believe the point is valid. > -- > Derek E. Lewis > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://delewis.blogspot.com > > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Fwd: Sun Device Detection Tool 1.2 is released
> > Hi Dennis, > > Would you please check if your host has a name? All the correct settings have already been in place. Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> I don't even know there are any GUI tools on Solaris > for networking? What would I use them for, I can > configure networking on Solaris within 15 seconds > with my eyes blindfolded and hands tied behind my > back, it's that easy. What if, for instance, you've installed OpenSolaris on a machine that had a network card OpenSolaris wasn't able to detect ? Network hasn't been configured, you naturally continue with the installation hoping to make it work after it boots (by looking up a driver, etc..). It's still not being detected, you file an RFE and insert some PCI Ethernet card you know works. Then you need to: 1) edit /etc/hosts 2) create /etc/defaultrouter 3) create /etc/hostname.rge0 (or whatever your interface was) 4) create /etc/resolv.conf 5) edit /etc/nsswitch.conf (add "dns" to hosts, ipnodes) 6) restart the network service ... and you magically have to remember all that, because you don't have any access to the Internet yet Now if you have solid experience with Solaris (as you do) it's easy & simple, if you don't, you'd be surprised if you'd say forget/didn't know about (e), but I sure hope you don't expect [i]everyone[/i] to know what nsswitch.conf is for and why "dns" wasn't there when your network card wasn't detected. In the end [i]good[/i] UI tools are absolutely essential. Saying that CLI is easy and always gives you more control is like saying that [i]ed[/i] should be used for coding on huge projects, does it give you more control ? will it allow you to do safe refactorings ? will it do code inspection for you ? will it correctly find usages for you ? A good IDE allows you to focus on your project, not coding details. A proper UI tool would verify that your input was correct (instead of having to look at 'svcs -xv' (which you'd also have to know of), and check the logs which aren't always that informative...), it would present all this information in one window, instead of being scattered through 4-5 files, and most importantly it would automate all the steps for you, so instead of spending on this N minutes you could set up your network in just under 30 seconds. The networking tool in OpenSolaris is okay (except that it doesn't update nsswitch and messed up my /etc/hosts), but it's certainly a step in the right direction... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Fwd: Sun Device Detection Tool 1.2 is released
Hi Dennis, Are you saying that after all the setting (set hostname and direct connection in java control panel), you still can not submit the report? If not, would you please open the java console and send me the java web start log? Thanks, Richard >> Hi Dennis, >> >> Would you please check if your host has a name? >> > > > All the correct settings have already been in place. > > Dennis > ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Fwd: Sun Device Detection Tool 1.2 is released
> > Hi Dennis, > > Are you saying that after all the setting No. I made no change. The network settings are correct. http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/Sun_Device_Detect_issue_000.png > (set hostname and direct connection in java control panel) What Java Control Panel ? What do you mean by "Control Panel" ? > you still can not submit the report? I still can not send the report. No change here. > If not, would you please open the java console and send me the java web > start log? Open what "Java Console" ? Where is the log you are looking for ? Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
Dear Ggendel, > My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of > catching up with Linux distributions like Ubuntu and > can then set it's sights on a real desktop solution. Indiana shoots up my expectations. I wouldn't just hope that Indiana will 'catch up" with Linux, I would rather "instigate" Indiana to surpass the best of the Operarating Systems in terms of User friendliness -Mac-, by asking Indiana to "understand" Solaris first. Understand what it is capable of. If Indiana feels insulted enough and provoked enough on this comment, the leaders and team members would see Solaris in a new light, as a very complex, very elaborate operating system, which has alll capabilities built in to it. For instance this complex and elaborate O/S originally designed for huge, mission critical networks has the capability built in to be simplified as an utterly simple operting system for those users who are on a spectrum far apart from the technically savvy, disciplined professionals who created and are improving the O/S. I would ask Indiana to create a release as simple as the first Google Home page that showed up on my screen in an era when Search engine home pages contained 2000 lines of text and 1000 links, all in one page... The user had to search for the search tab in a search engine, Google popped up with a page that was plain, simple, and utterly easy... Can Indiana surpass such a revolution in simplicity ? Not just in appearance... ( Ian Murdock, have I provoked you enough ) > For example: why install Sendmail if the user only > uses Thunderbird as a mail client? The only reason I > can think of is to support things like cron when it > needs to tell something that something is amiss. To > me cron shouldn't require a main server running on > the current host. It is these types of details that > keep the system complexity up plus confound and > confuse the home user. > On send mail and other features retained for the UNIX traditionals, I have some suggestions to be inserted in a response to dlewis's reply to this post by ggendel, which is also co-addressed to Ian Murdock. > Anyway, I enjoyed your diatribe. Thanks for the > entertaining diversion. > > Gary This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> Gary Gendel wrote: > > For example: why install Sendmail if the user only uses Thunderbird as a > > mail client? . It is these types of details that keep the system complexity up plus confound and confuse the home user > > the bulk of UNIX users ... relied upon Sendmail ... Sendmail has also been > used to send mail off > after a job has completed Its been my experience users that migrate from > Windows to Linux have >this problem. They tend to have the mindset that > what's unneeded to them is generally what's >unneeded to everyone, because of > problems that are localized to Windows. What I am writing is not only on Send mail... This is all on features that would confuse the average user, but features that are valuable, that need not be stripped altogether. Imagine a desktop interface that is three dimensional. It exists in later versions of Open Solaris, I have seen it, it is like a cube, so don't tell me you already have it. This is more like how the cube can be organized to reconcile this problem. Make six desktops, one on each surface of the cube. The front face of the cube is the common man and Ian Murdock's uncommon woman. I will call it Surface 1 ( Unix professionals would be inclined to call it Surface 0, don't, I will get confused. ) This will require no expertise, except some basic, very basic GUI navigation skills. The user broswes, checks mail, writes a letter, watches a video, listens to some music, blissfully logs off and goes away, The most advanced System Admin task that the user will ever perform in this plane is change his password, suing a change password GUI interface. Trust me, over 70% of all desktop users don't want anything more than the functionalities of this surface. Switch to the surface on the right, I will call it Surface 2, that the User will have access to after a simple warning that says that it requires moderate knowledge of computer settings.. You will find in this surface automatic updates, download privileges, change basic settings, add an icon, change network settings etc. ( I have not arrived at an optimal set of privileges///limitations for each level, but I think the idea is conveyed ) Switch on to the surface on the back, Surface 3, you have more advanced GUIs such as smc. Or this surface just has smc. Requires a Surface 3 password to swtich to. Switch to the surface 4 on the left, it is where you will find everything, including sendmail functionality, if the user chooses. The user who gets on to the plane is invariably the Unix familiar user, the advanced user who can get down to the Terminal, the terminal is there. The bottom of the cube is Surface 5, the root interface. The user will stay away from this plane if he is warned that it is dangerous ground. The top layer is for Sun. It is for Sun's support. Users may suscribe to remote desktop administration, which will have access to even the kernel files, in case Support wants to update it, but not the user's personal directory path. ( Is there a way of setting up such privileges as total access, except the user's directory ? ) The user may not even have to see this surface, it is a surface where there could be simultaneous activity even as the user is watching a movie in his own surface. If he so chooses, he can switch to this surface with "view only" privileges to watch unintelligible terminal messages flashing past ... What if you come up with six desktops rolled into one ? A mac on the face, a full scale GNOME on the right, a GNOME solaris on the back, a UNIX on the left, a Terminal at the bottom and a Remote Machine on top ? I would love to learn at least as much UNIX as it takes to send and receive mails from the command prompt, or from a command prompt like GUI, as in Mission Impossible ... Someday I will be on Surface 4. > > -- > Derek E. Lewis > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://delewis.blogspot.com > > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> The desktop for a common user vs a corporate revolves > around plug and play, Yes, it must be plug and play. Some technical executives I have talked to tend to believe that Solaris is already plug and play, it is not. Ian, the DVDs that I tried in one of the most recent releases of Nevada did not work, the audo CDs did not play... I have a PDA with Windows 5.0 that did not connect as a SD card reader, not as a USB device, let alone as a PDA... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> > My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of catching up with Linux > > distributions like Ubuntu Is that what Indiana would aspire for ? Catch up with Ubuntu Pathetic. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> The networking tool in OpenSolaris is okay No, it is not OKAY. Try configuring Internet in Windows XP, look at the kind of easy questions asked. Look at the help file menu that pops up in the unlikely even that the internet fails to configure If the task is desktop, you need to begin by admiring windows and mac. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, check out the current version first. > Ian Ian, you sound so easily irritated. And to tend to defend Sun, Solaris and Open Solaris. You could be so defensive in a Press Meet, not in a develper forum, you might want to hear more and more and more complaints, criticisms, cynical remarks, insults in order to know and understand what is missing and what needs to be done, to cause progress... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Compile errors during onnv-gate
Hi all, And now for something completely different. I pulled the ONNV source from the mercurial (spelling) repository. I get the following errors in the mail_msg: http://pastebin.com/m776bbbf0 The end result after 8 hour compilation is... SILK! ACK! I don't see any cpio archives in the archives directory, and I think it's cause of the error shown in the mail_msg. Can someone give me a guide line as of what I am doing wrong or how I can fix it? I am trying to compile on an Athlon 2400XP+ with Sun Studio Pro 12, which is shipped by default with Nevada 69. Thanks in advance! Patrick Ale WickedWicky ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
> Regarding GIMP, 2.4 will apparently take more of a > "Photoshop look" - > but ultimately the only real possibility is for Sun > to work with wine > and improve Windows compatibility - Adobe has flat > out refused to > support Sun and Solaris. There is very little Sun can > do when Adobe is > unwilling to play ball. Is this a "There's no business case" refusal or a "Duh, you SUCK!" refusal? Just wondering, because software politics become pretty stupid at times. After all, we finally got Flash 9. -mg This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
I have used Windows before, and I have configured network there, suffice to say in most cases the Networking tool in OpenSolaris works just fine and is just as easy to use as its windows counterpart. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> What if, for instance, you've installed OpenSolaris > on a machine that had a network card OpenSolaris > wasn't able to detect ? Network hasn't been > configured, you naturally continue with the > installation hoping to make it work after it boots > (by looking up a driver, etc..). It's still not being > detected, you file an RFE and insert some PCI > Ethernet card you know works. Sure, happens a lot. Happens to people every day. But I come from the Amiga platform, where hardware compatibility outside of Commodore's own peripherals was a risky venture. Point: I always get the hardware for my software, not the other way around. For example, I'm going to be looking for a new laptop; the laptop MUST have Nvidia graphics because I know that Nvidia *supports* Solaris I plan to put on that laptop. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Ok To start off. I have read this entire thread. I want to simply say, there is alot of closed minds in this , as well some brilliant thoughts. If you really wanted to take OpenSolaris to the wide vast market. 1. Make a developer version and a end user version (ease of use)) 2. Set up support for those end users and charge a small fee for that support (will help give donations to here or whatever you want to do with it) 3. Start off with user friendly videos that show the user the basics of getting started. As well make things easy for the users that migrate from windows to OpenSolaris. (Migrating subject videos). I do agree though that OpenSolrais is more for those that have already worked their way into Linux ( so a advanced video selection/ and or level 2 support (paid of course). This way it gives two ladders of migration. Once people become attached and hooked on the power and stability along with lighting fast reaction compared to windows/ as well no virus that eats at windows core and spyware/adware that takes the fun out of any OS. they will be more apt to learn more advanced methods of using OpenSolaris. This is my 2 cents and 1 dollar for the typing service:) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> > > My hope is that Indiana will make quick work of > catching up with Linux distributions like Ubuntu > > Is that what Indiana would aspire for ? Catch up with > Ubuntu Pathetic. That certainly seems like a proper goal for the time being, to simplify the process of installation (albeit my only grumble with the current installer is the lack of ZFS as a choice of FS) and to ease up the process of upgrade, improve package management interface. With the advent of KDE4, thanks to the guys from the opensolaris kde project, we'll have SunStudio built KDE for Solaris. And after some more libraries are ported (like boost without stlport, libburn, etc..) it'll have everything linux has and more. And don't forget, OpenSolaris is a free and open-source project, if you want to improve some of its parts to make it a number one choice desktop for everyone out there, why not do something about it ? Just take the code, improve it, send for review, I'm sure everyone will appreciate it. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 8/5/07, Mario Goebbels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Regarding GIMP, 2.4 will apparently take more of a > > "Photoshop look" - > > but ultimately the only real possibility is for Sun > > to work with wine > > and improve Windows compatibility - Adobe has flat > > out refused to > > support Sun and Solaris. There is very little Sun can > > do when Adobe is > > unwilling to play ball. > > Is this a "There's no business case" refusal or a "Duh, you SUCK!" > refusal? Just wondering, because software politics become pretty stupid at > times. After all, we finally got Flash 9. I thought it was an: "Adobe, if you promise not to support other *nixes, we'll kick out Quark, and make you the new star DTP application suite." (Just kidding..) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Samba smbpasswd
Have you tried "webmin"? You use your web browser to administer all services on your computer. That command is very neat and comes bundled with Solaris Express. Google for the web site. Highly recommended, as it only takes a push of a button on the web page, instead of complicated commands. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
Gangadhar Mylapuram (Home) writes: > > I don't think it's helpful at all to chase away people who want to use > > an OpenSolaris-based distribution in an unexpected or novel way. We > > actually do _want_ new users. > > > > > > I agree with you James, but who will solve Shiv's problems with Solaris. > Do you think that a Desktop OS like MacOS is in SUN's priority? I doubt it, but I don't fund such things. I think it'd be a great thing for a distribution (such as Nexenta) to take up. > We never compared Solaris with MacOS/ Windows from the desktop user > point of view, > we always compare with Linux, HP-Unix, IBM AIX . That's certainly not true. My former organization (Approachability) explicitly compared Solaris against Mac OS X. Check out the work currently being done in the NWAM project (which came from that group) and reconsider. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, check out the current > version first. > > >> Ian >> > > Ian, you sound so easily irritated. Far from it, but I do get fed up with whingers and people who spread FUD. Bashing a piece of software based on how it used to be is totally inappropriate for this list. I'm also irritated by people starting discussions about Solaris 10 on an OpenSolaris list. > And to tend to defend Sun, Solaris and Open Solaris. You could be so > defensive in a Press Meet, not in a develper forum, you might want to hear > more and more and more complaints, criticisms, cynical remarks, insults in > order to know and understand what is missing and what needs to be done, to > cause progress... > > If the complaints are directed at the current state of OpenSolaris and are accompanied by constructive suggestions for improvement, fine. OpenSolaris is an open source project, so if you think it's broken, help fix it. Whinging form the sidelines helps nobody. Ian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
On 8/5/07, Ian Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, check out the > current version first. > > > > > >> Ian > >> > > > > Ian, you sound so easily irritated. > Far from it, but I do get fed up with whingers and people who spread > FUD. Bashing a piece of software based on how it used to be is totally > inappropriate for this list. > I'm also irritated by people starting discussions about Solaris 10 on an > OpenSolaris list. Let's face it, Ian. Solaris/OpenSolaris does not have the best track record for usability. It is a preconception we are going to have to counter, person by person. If you are sick of it, you might as well unsubscribe from this list, as it's going to go on for a lot longer than it will take to fix the problems. I also feel that this list is an appropriate place, as any, for people to express their thoughts on what they think OpenSolaris is. (Even if some facts may be inaccurate, or out of date.) It takes time to overcome preconceived notions. e.g. - Apple used to be viewed as a manufacturer of underpowered, buggy, slow, overpriced machines. It took many years for people to come to respect Apple again. (In my opinion it was years after the core issues had been resolved). Now they are overpriced and, most importantly, desirable. ;) -Brian P.S. - OpenSolaris has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go.. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
Brandorr wrote: > > Let's face it, Ian. Solaris/OpenSolaris does not have the best track > record for usability. It is a preconception we are going to have to > counter, person by person. > I guess usability is in the eye of the beholder. From my perspective as a developer, windows usability drives me nuts. Sometimes I thing it the the same person signing up under a new alias in order to trot out the same thread over and over. > If you are sick of it, you might as well unsubscribe from this list, > as it's going to go on for a lot longer than it will take to fix the > problems. I probably should, I've been here since the beginning of 2005, when this used to be a stimulating and topical list. > I also feel that this list is an appropriate place, as any, for people > to express their thoughts on what they think OpenSolaris is. (Even if > some facts may be inaccurate, or out of date.) Well that is one of the reasons why the list is called opensolaris-discuss! Ian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Fwd: Sun Device Detection Tool 1.2 is released
Hi Dennis, The Java Control Panel can be started by run /usr/java/jre/bin/ControlPanel or /usr/bin/ControlPanel. Run the command will pop up the Java Contrl Panel ui. Choose the 'Advanced' will lead you to the 'Settings', choose 'Java Console' and set it as 'Show console', then next time, Java Console will show with log, when you run Sun Device Detection Tool next time. Click the 'General' will lead you to "Network Settings', press the 'Network Setting' button, in the 'Network Setting' window, choose 'Direct Connection'. You probably can submit report if you set the 'Direct Connection' in Java Control Panel and your host has a hostname. However, if you still can not submit the report, please send me the log in the Java Console. Thanks, Richard >> Hi Dennis, >> >> Are you saying that after all the setting >> > > No. > > I made no change. > > The network settings are correct. > > http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/Sun_Device_Detect_issue_000.png > > >> (set hostname and direct connection in java control panel) >> > > What Java Control Panel ? What do you mean by "Control Panel" ? > > >> you still can not submit the report? >> > > I still can not send the report. No change here. > > >> If not, would you please open the java console and send me the java web >> start log? >> > > Open what "Java Console" ? Where is the log you are looking for ? > > Dennis > ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Fwd: Sun Device Detection Tool 1.2 is released
> > Hi Dennis, > > The Java Control Panel can be started by run > /usr/java/jre/bin/ControlPanel or /usr/bin/ControlPanel. Run the command > will pop up the Java Contrl Panel ui. ah .. that works well ... okay I see : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/SDDT_JavaConsole_000.png > Choose the 'Advanced' will lead you to the 'Settings', choose 'Java > Console' and set it as 'Show console', then next time, Java Console will > show with log, when you run Sun Device Detection Tool next time. http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/SDDT_JavaConsole_001.png > Click the 'General' will lead you to "Network Settings', press the > 'Network Setting' button, in the 'Network Setting' window, choose > 'Direct Connection'. yep .. did that > You probably can submit report if you set the 'Direct Connection' in > Java Control Panel and your host has a hostname. However, if you still > can not submit the report, please send me the log in the Java Console. still can not .. was there supposed to be a log file created somewhere ? I guess you need me to copy and paste out of the console. Gee ... Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
UNIX admin wrote: >> Have tried OpenSound? > > Yes, I have, and I have an extremely negative opinion of it. > > First, sound via OpenSound was a hit'n'miss - after some fiddling, the sound > *might* start working. This made it unreliable and frustrating to use. > > Second, the software as delivered is a very, very nasty hack that violates > just about every known System V standard and spec in existence. > > For instance, the drivers are started by an /etc/init.d/ script (!?!?!), back > then when I tried the software, no package had been delivered, the binaries > were written into /usr, and so on. Extremely unprofessional, inspite of the > firm's claim that they've "done UNIX for a very long time". If they have, > then they learned very little in that time period about UNIX, apart from > programming audio hardware on it. > > It was a really bleak day for me when it was anounced that OpenSound will be > integrated into OpenSolaris. Why so much negativity? There's an awesome team in Sun working on adding OSS and nicely integrating it into OpenSolaris - making sure the files install into the right place, adding SMF support, etc... OSS being open source gives the opportunity to provide the best of both worlds - people who are experts in the field of sound, and those that are experts in the field of operating systems. Have some faith that good things will come out of it - I'm massively excited to see what they can produce. Glynn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 11:41 -0700, Mario Goebbels wrote: > > Regarding GIMP, 2.4 will apparently take more of a > > "Photoshop look" - > > but ultimately the only real possibility is for Sun > > to work with wine > > and improve Windows compatibility - Adobe has flat > > out refused to > > support Sun and Solaris. There is very little Sun can > > do when Adobe is > > unwilling to play ball. > > Is this a "There's no business case" refusal or a "Duh, you SUCK!" > refusal? Just wondering, because software politics become pretty > stupid at times. After all, we finally got Flash 9. Flash was supplied via an agreement with Macromedia - Adobe merely held up the original agreement. I doubt very much that Adobe would have created a Flashplayer for Solaris given Adobes refusal to provide Acrobat for Solaris - even after Sun offered to pay for the porting of it to Solaris x86. If Sun really wanted to 'punish' Adobe for their arrogance, create a great tool to create JavaFX content that allow creative types (aka non-programmers) to create easier and quicker than they could have with Adobe Flash. If Sun can really harm Adobes web side of the business then it'll put them on the back foot - for me, I have no love for Adobe, they're in the same boat of 'scum sucking roaches' as Microsoft. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 17:31 -0400, Brandorr wrote: > On 8/5/07, Ian Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > What nonsense, if you are going to criticise something, > check out the current version first. > > > > > >> Ian > >> > > > > Ian, you sound so easily irritated. > Far from it, but I do get fed up with whingers and people who > spread > FUD. Bashing a piece of software based on how it used to be > is totally > inappropriate for this list. > I'm also irritated by people starting discussions about > Solaris 10 on an > OpenSolaris list. > > Let's face it, Ian. Solaris/OpenSolaris does not have the best track > record for usability. It is a preconception we are going to have to > counter, person by person. > > If you are sick of it, you might as well unsubscribe from this list, > as it's going to go on for a lot longer than it will take to fix the > problems. I also feel that this list is an appropriate place, as any, > for people to express their thoughts on what they think OpenSolaris > is. (Even if some facts may be inaccurate, or out of date.) > > It takes time to overcome preconceived notions. > > e.g. - Apple used to be viewed as a manufacturer of underpowered, > buggy, slow, overpriced machines. It took many years for people to > come to respect Apple again. (In my opinion it was years after the > core issues had been resolved). Now they are overpriced and, most > importantly, desirable. ;) > > -Brian > > P.S. - OpenSolaris has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go.. But lets remember, this is a community project; if there are issues, rather than screaming from the sidelines - contribute. For example, if there is something wrong with a module, submit bug reports, if you think you can do it better, load up GLADE and create a mock up of something that would be superior then submit it to this group and advocate why the interface should be laid out that way. I do my bit of whinging and whining, but at the same time, alot of what is being whinged about, which Ian must accept, are issues which the community cannot address. No one pays attention to a sole individual asking a company for Solaris support - its up to Sun to use its corporate muscle - and if it means that Johnnathon needs to wheel out the spin machine and portray those who don't support Solaris as consumer hating, Microsoft supporting, monopoly supporting organisations - then so be it. Sometimes one needs to get a little nasty to get things done. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> Far from it, but I do get fed up with whingers and > people who spread > FUD. Bashing a piece of software based on how it > used to be is totally > inappropriate for this list. I have downloaded but not dissected the latest "oss" package. When I do an analysis then I'll post more. The package name is already busted (yes, I am an absolute attention-to-detail freak). Meanwhile, I do not consider myself to be either a "whinger" (whatever that is) nor a FUD spreader. I simply answered a series of questions, where I stated that I have a negative opinion of OSS based on my previous experiences... and I have installed OSS several times in the past, so it's not like I tried it and dismissed it right away; I even tried to fix it. I'm a very patient and persistent person, and I don't take such things lightly. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris "thinks" that my standalone desktop is a huge network....
> Why so much negativity? Because I work with Solaris "professionals" day in and day out and am forced to witness, by the nature of my job, the horrible hacking and perversion that is done to Solaris, especially to packaging. The company where I work went so far to "invent" their own "enhancements" to the Solaris System V packaging mechanisms, which are nothing more than horrible perversions of mechanisms that already exist in Solaris; in other words, we re-invented "hot water". Now this wouldn't be so bad if people involved simply admitted they didn't know what they were doing and asked for assistance; instead, they go straight on with their heads through the wall. There's just too much of that going around these days, even in the "wide world", and it really gets to me because I care deeply about Solaris, and about doing things cleanly and not hacking stuff up. Like I wrote before, I'm an attention to detail freak and an incurable perfectionst when it comes to such things, which makes it all the more painful to watch. To me, it's like packing salt into an already raw and bleeding wound. > There's an awesome team in Sun working on adding OSS > and nicely integrating it > into OpenSolaris - making sure the files install into > the right place, adding > SMF support, etc... OSS being open source gives the > opportunity to provide the > best of both worlds - people who are experts in the > field of sound, and those > that are experts in the field of operating systems. ... > > Have some faith that good things will come out of it > - I'm massively excited to > see what they can produce. That is good news for a change. You guys know what you're doing, and that's comforting. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
