Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Richard L. Hamilton]

> The nVIDIA device driver is written by nVIDIA, not
> Oracle!
> 
> Solaris/OpenSolaris is not specifically a Server or
> Workstation OS, it's an
> OS. People use it. Oracle/Sun currently only sells
> server-hardware. So, trying
> to derive from that fact, that Solaris/OpenSolaris is
> only a server OS is a
> conclusion done by someone. But, if people would be
> using Solaris/OpenSolaris
> more for Desktop, then that would be helping nVIDIA
> in porting/migrating (my
> guess).
> 

AFAIK, the Ultra 27 (fairly powerful x86 tower, notwithstanding the name)
and Sun Rays (thin client, used together with a server) are still sold,
so "Oracle/Sun currently only sells server-hardware" isn't accurate.
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Richard L. Hamilton]

> Ivan Wang wrote:
> > You need a distro built upon it to actually benefit
> from illumos, plus things like X Windows stack (FOX
> gate?,)
> 
> The FOX gate is obsolete and no longer maintained,
> since the project to
> replace all portions of the X consolidation with open
> source completed.
> The xnv-clone published by the X Consolidation
> project is fully open source,
> and is the exact source used in Nevada builds now.
> 
> http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+x-cons/
> 
> -- 
> -Alan Coopersmith-
> -alan.coopersm...@oracle.com
> Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window
> ow System

Hmm...didn't FOX gate have Martin's ports of drivers for some
of the legacy SPARC graphics hardware?  Having a fair bit of same
still in use, those are still a matter of concern for me.

It'd be great to see them separable from the basic X server, if Oracle
doesn't wish to maintain them, so that they could be an addition from
a separate repository, rather than requiring an entire alternative X server.

(it's understood that they don't support everything that the old Xsun did,
but every little bit helps; for instance, while I'd lose my XVR-1000,
I might still be able to use the Creator-3D or the XVR-100)

The opened version of Xsun (which would be minus certain 3rd party
functionality) might also let the rest of the old driver binaries work.

Either or both of those are presumably for the community to deal with;
but it would sure help if coexistence with (rather than replacement of)
"standard" software were possible.
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Alan Coopersmith]

Ivan Wang wrote:
> You need a distro built upon it to actually benefit from illumos, plus things 
> like X Windows stack (FOX gate?,)

The FOX gate is obsolete and no longer maintained, since the project to
replace all portions of the X consolidation with open source completed.
The xnv-clone published by the X Consolidation project is fully open source,
and is the exact source used in Nevada builds now.

http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+x-cons/

-- 
-Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com
 Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System

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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Ivan Wang]

Ugh, I am not sure people are missing the point here.
In fact, it's the point that illumos is an unburdened O/N, and O/N only.
You need a distro built upon it to actually benefit from illumos, plus things 
like X Windows stack (FOX gate?,) GNOME desktop or whatever desktop environment 
of choice by distro builder.

Where is that distro?

One cannot count on Indiana to switch, because if Oracle were to do it, it 
would be easier just resume /dev release after all. 
StormOS site hasn't been updated for several months I think.

It is the same reason, I think, why indiana is created, and as its predecessor, 
SXCE, for nevada code base.

As matter of fact, only when a distro using illumos emerges, current stagnancy 
can be improved. 

> I think people are missing the point here. This is
> just my $0.02, but
> the effort is akin to kernel.org. They are
> maintaining a fully-open
> base system in which others may build a distribution
> from. It is a lot
> of userland too, but its most akin to being kernel,
> libc, and what one
> expects in /sbin. They want to be upstream
> compatible. If a
> distribution wants to use their revision of ON as a
> _basis_ for their
> distribution, great. Efforts to support third party
> components will
> generally sit upon a full distribution, which is not
> being provided by
> IllumOS.
> 
> They mentioned that a "distribution" may be released,
> but its whole
> purpose is a bootstrap to help create a more complete
> full
> distribution. If you want a workstation/desktop
> class, one could for
> instance use StormOS or similar, which is a
> workstation/desktop
> edition above Nexenta Core by another third party. We
> are all talking
> about various building blocks here. One can't expect
> the end product
> from the group thats solely focused on engine parts.
> 
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>
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[devsk]

"Illumos" is quite a mouthful for most of the world population to pronounce and 
not a good catch-on name. I suggest ImOS (yeah, that's called "I am OS", 
contrasted with "I am a PC" and "I am a Mac"...;-)) as an acronym for Illumos.
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Re: [osol-discuss] New onnv distro naming suggestion

[Mike La Spina]

I like "Sonus" the reverse of the original SunOS. Hey! Maybe Larry won't 
disSonus. lol
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Re: [osol-discuss] New onnv distro naming suggestion

[Jonathan Edwards]

>> Unfortunately. Good project, dreadful name.
> in a way "illumos" interprets to SUN OS :) 

not quite .. illumos actually sounds a bit more like the latin masculine 
singular accusative case (direct object of a transitive verb) for that or those 
.. ie: we developed THAT, or Oracle abandoned THAT

I'd venture to guess some may have been thinking about something like 
illuminatiOS .. but that's a bit too long for a decent name.  Personally I get 
a kick out of some of the band name generators out there .. "Asphalt Prophet" 
anyone?
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Re: [osol-discuss] New onnv distro naming suggestion

[Peter Jones]

Re: The Illumos Project
Posted: Aug 4, 2010 5:46 AM   in response to: forquare
To: OpenSolaris » discuss

Click to reply to this thread   Reply

The Illumos Project
Posted: Jul 31, 2010 2:18 AM
To: OpenSolaris » discuss
Cc: Communities » advocacy » discuss

Click to reply to this thread Reply

A number of the community leaders from the OpenSolaris community have
been working quietly together on a new effort called Illumos, and we're
just about ready to fully disclose our work to, and invite the general
participation of, the general public.

We believe that everyone who is interested in OpenSolaris should be
interested in what we have to say, and so we invite the entire
OpenSolaris community to join us for a presentation on at 1PM EDT on
August 3, 2010.

You can find out the full details of how to listen in to our conference,
or attend in person (we will be announcing from New York City) by
visiting http://www.illumos.org/announce (The final details shall be
posted there not later than 1PM EDT Aug 1, 2010.)

We look forward to seeing you there!

- Garrett D'Amore & the rest of the Illumos Cast


I wish you luck however I hope you will shorten the project name to OSI or ICE 
as the name no doubt will not transfer so easily between languages, 
countries,disabilities, or cultures? Will you also considering a simplified 
logo of a sun or planet in MAC graphics style which seems very appropriate?

Maybe the first publiociy stunt would be a competition name for the new name on 
znet or the times? art students and mba's love this!
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[osol-discuss] Oracle podcast on Solaris for x86

[Lee Roth]

(Not sure if there will be any reference to OpenSolaris... but I posted it here 
anyway.)

http://www.oracle.com/podcasts/solaris-podcasts.html

[b]Oracle Solaris: Overview, Optimizations and x86 Offerings (MP3)[/b]
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OracleSolaris/~3/JYcM26E6EhI/8909036_Dan_Roberts_080210.mp3

Welcome to the Oracle Solaris: In A Class By Itself podcast. In this first 
episode, we'll provide an general update on the state of Oracle Solaris and 
then dive into the features and optimizations that make Oracle Solaris the best 
operating system for x86-based systems. We'll also discuss Oracle's new support 
offering for Oracle Solaris on third party x86 servers.
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Re: [osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Graham McArdle]

I was able to download the latest studio express version today with no 
problems. I doubt they're planning to close the program but maybe maintaining 
the download facility for a 'special' non-latest version for non-Solaris 10 is 
a different matter.
Perhaps a real target for Illumos is to maintain Solaris binary compatibility 
and sort out the build nightmare so that ON can be built by the latest Studio 
compiler for Solaris 10, rather than requiring an OpenSolaris-specific version 
of Studio. I think this would be welcomed upstream too.
Of course, it's easy to say - maybe if it was as easy to do it would already be 
done...
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[David Brodbeck]

On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Paul Gress wrote:

> On 08/ 4/10 02:26 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
>> 
>> On Aug 4, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Paul Gress wrote:
>>   
>>> Larry sees the profitable market as servers and databases.  HPC, won't help 
>>> databases.  HPC (high performance computers) basically are derived from 
>>> servers with additional components added to them to make them function as a 
>>> workstation, this is my interpretation, I'm sure some one will probably 
>>> correct me if I'm wrong.
>>> 
>> There are certainly desktop High Performance Computing applications, but 
>> it's much more common for HPC nodes to be servers of some description.  
>> Generally they're biased towards large amounts of CPU power, and/or have 
>> multiple GPU cards installed, to provide lots of computational speed.
>> 
>>   
> 
> Thanks for the added info.  In you opinion, does HPC have any benefit for 
> database applications.

I think generally it's more useful for highly parallel, 
computationally-intensive applications -- for example, scientific modeling, 
raytracing, finite element analysis, etc.  Databases tend to be more I/O 
intensive.

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System Administrator, Linguistics
University of Washington




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Re: [osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Alasdair Lumsden]

On 4 Aug 2010, at 21:48, Maurilio Longo wrote:

> Alasdair,
> 
> what about this link
> 
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/sunstudio/downloads/studio12-update1-136165.html

Ohh, yes, that works perfectly! Nice, thanks :-)

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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Paul Gress]

On 08/ 4/10 03:42 PM, John Martin wrote:

On 08/ 4/10 12:04 PM, Paul Gress wrote:


  When I read the
Hardware Compatability notes for PTC Pro-Engineer WF5, it states there
are no current plans for its next generation WF6 MCAD product to be
developed on Solaris 10. This means to me, ...


Careful asserting cause to effect.  Linux support for Wildfire
was dropped a long time ago when there were still plenty of
workstation choices from Linux vendors.



Yes, I remember.  And it was officially announced, where nothing has 
officially been announced for Solaris 10, just a note in the WF5 
hardware notes.  Also, with Linux I believe the main cause for non 
support are either one or two things if not both,  Red Had wouldn't 
throw any money their way or that the Linux Kernel was a moving target.  
When I first read about WF6, I always thought that they're talking about 
Solaris 10 and not Solaris Next, but as time goes by my thinking gets 
more swayed towards that Solaris is finished, at least with PTC.  And 
yes, I know I'm assuming, but with nothing officially announced, it's 
all I have.


Paul
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Re: [osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Maurilio Longo]

Alasdair,

what about this link

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/sunstudio/downloads/studio12-update1-136165.html

??

Best regards.

Maurilio.
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Re: [osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Alasdair Lumsden]

On 4 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Chris Ridd wrote:

> 
>  has links to the versions of Sun Studio 12 required for building ON et al.
> 
> But trying just now, those downloads require a support contract and not just 
> a valid (free) Sun account.
> 
> Is this a temporary or permanent problem?

I've had issues with "pca" (patch check advanced) downloading patches from 
SunSolve recently - I think they're having a big re-org.

I had a similar issue a while ago grabbing something else from SunSolve that 
was meant to be free but was throwing up that page, I used the contact form on 
the download page to ask Sun what was going on, and they replied saying it was 
a known issue and would be fixed eventually (it was working the next day).

So it might be worth using the contact form to find out whats going on.

Lets hope they haven't just made it a paid-for product. That would cause a lot 
of resentment/anger :-)

Alasdair
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Paul Gress]

On 08/ 4/10 02:26 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:

On Aug 4, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Paul Gress wrote:
   

Larry sees the profitable market as servers and databases.  HPC, won't help 
databases.  HPC (high performance computers) basically are derived from servers 
with additional components added to them to make them function as a 
workstation, this is my interpretation, I'm sure some one will probably correct 
me if I'm wrong.
 

There are certainly desktop High Performance Computing applications, but it's 
much more common for HPC nodes to be servers of some description.  Generally 
they're biased towards large amounts of CPU power, and/or have multiple GPU 
cards installed, to provide lots of computational speed.

   


Thanks for the added info.  In you opinion, does HPC have any benefit 
for database applications.  I imagine the high CPU count will but the 
GPU count won't, as in CUDA.  If this is true, why is Oracle not 
participating in any conferences or even updated their own web page 
(http://wikis.sun.com/display/HPCCommunity/Home), last updated on Oct 2009..


Paul
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[John Martin]

On 08/ 4/10 12:04 PM, Paul Gress wrote:


  When I read the
Hardware Compatability notes for PTC Pro-Engineer WF5, it states there
are no current plans for its next generation WF6 MCAD product to be
developed on Solaris 10. This means to me, ...


Careful asserting cause to effect.  Linux support for Wildfire
was dropped a long time ago when there were still plenty of
workstation choices from Linux vendors.


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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[David Brodbeck]

On Aug 4, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Paul Gress wrote:
> Larry sees the profitable market as servers and databases.  HPC, won't help 
> databases.  HPC (high performance computers) basically are derived from 
> servers with additional components added to them to make them function as a 
> workstation, this is my interpretation, I'm sure some one will probably 
> correct me if I'm wrong.

There are certainly desktop High Performance Computing applications, but it's 
much more common for HPC nodes to be servers of some description.  Generally 
they're biased towards large amounts of CPU power, and/or have multiple GPU 
cards installed, to provide lots of computational speed.

-- 

David Brodbeck
System Administrator, Linguistics
University of Washington




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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Paul Gress]

On 08/ 4/10 01:15 PM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:


As others have mentioned, CUDA and OpenCL are also useful on servers.

I guess, I'm getting, where you're after...

IF you want DESKTOPS, you need to have someone certify them (HCTS), so that
they appear in the HCL (Sun/Oracle isn't in that business currently/any
more). Solaris/OpenSolaris does not care, if it's run on a workstation or a
server, it runs on all... ;-)

   


Almost, you need apps to run on them.  Desktop apps would be Gimp, 
Openoffice, Gnucash, etc.  Workstation apps are MCAD, ECAD, Software for 
CATSCAN, Software for Molecule modeling, Weather prediction, and so on.  
They require much more computer horsepower.  Just certifying a platform 
doesn't create demand.  Sun years ago had this industry, the same as SGI 
had the Motion Video industry.  It seems Sun or Oracle let this go at 
acquisition time.  By stopping this, they saved a lot of money for 
development and paying various partners/vendors to continue development 
on Solaris.  Yes, this is how I see it, Sun had to pay Adobe for 
acroreader on the X86 platform.  I believe that has stopped here.  You 
will see upgrades to the 9.XX line (paid for), but not 10.XX line (not 
paid for).  Unless Larry sees a profit, it won't happen.  This is how I 
believe Larry made Sun profitable in the recent quarter.  He stopped the 
bleeding of money to various vendors to keep a non-profitable market open.


Larry sees the profitable market as servers and databases.  HPC, won't 
help databases.  HPC (high performance computers) basically are derived 
from servers with additional components added to them to make them 
function as a workstation, this is my interpretation, I'm sure some one 
will probably correct me if I'm wrong.  I don't believe Oracle is going 
to be pursuing this industry.  It doesn't help databases.


Paul


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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Matthias Pfützner]

You (Paul Gress) wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 11:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:
>>
>> I guess, I don't get, what you're after?
>>
>> The nVIDIA device driver is written by nVIDIA, not Oracle!
>>
>> Solaris/OpenSolaris is not specifically a Server or Workstation OS, it's an
>> OS. People use it. Oracle/Sun currently only sells server-hardware. So, 
>> trying
>> to derive from that fact, that Solaris/OpenSolaris is only a server OS is a
>> conclusion done by someone. But, if people would be using Solaris/OpenSolaris
>> more for Desktop, then that would be helping nVIDIA in porting/migrating (my
>> guess).
>>
>> You all here can help with that:
>>
>> Now with the 3rd-party hardware support option, you only need to certify your
>> workstations using the HCTS, and buy support contracts... ;-) It's up to the
>> end-user, what they use the software (or here: the OS) for... ;-)
>>
>>
>
> I guess you not getting where I'm going.  Nvidia is not going to write 
> device drivers if there's no market.  Without any more HPC and 
> Workstations, why would you write it?

As others have mentioned, CUDA and OpenCL are also useful on servers.

I guess, I'm getting, where you're after...

IF you want DESKTOPS, you need to have someone certify them (HCTS), so that
they appear in the HCL (Sun/Oracle isn't in that business currently/any
more). Solaris/OpenSolaris does not care, if it's run on a workstation or a
server, it runs on all... ;-)

> I have been using 
> Solaris/Opensolaris for 15 years as a Workstation.  I started with an 
> Ultra2 running Pro-Engineer a MCAD application, and continued through today 
> using Opensolaris on an HPZ800 Workstation.  Where I'm afraid is Oracle has 
> removed all Workstations from their product offering and hasn't updated the 
> HPC website for almost a year.  When I read the Hardware Compatability 
> notes for PTC Pro-Engineer WF5, it states there are no current plans for 
> its next generation WF6 MCAD product to be developed on Solaris 10.  This 
> means to me, that funding to keep development going has ceased, from Oracle 
> and PTC.

Oracle is not responsible for what PTC does with PTC Pro-Engineer...

> I believe this is only the tip of the Iceberg.  Without 
> Workstations being offered, the ECAD, MCAD and HPC communities will dry up.

As I said: If you want to run Solaris/OpenSolaris on a workstation, currently
you need to run Solaris/OpenSolaris on a non-Oracle HW. In order to have
Oracle recognize the need or see some revenue, those WorkStations would need
to be in the HCL and you would need to buy a support contract for them. That
might influence Oracle. If it would also influence PTC, I have no idea... ;-)

> Nvidia will waste their time developing a driver which no one can use.  

As stated: Solaris/OpenSolaris runs on more Workstations than only those that
once came from Sun. Have those certified, have those in use and PTC and nVIDIA
might re-think their current position...

> They need applications that require it.  I see IBM, the makers of Catia and 
> Solidworks announced a new CAD program to run on Windows, MacOS and Linux.  
> Where is Solaris/Opensolaris?  If Oracle isn't supporting their OS on 
> Workstations, why should anybody else?

Again: As stated clearly in:


http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/solaris/non-sun-x86-081976.html

Solaris IS supported on ALL systems listed as CERTIFIED in the HCL (by
Oracle!). And getting systems into the certified state in the HCL is by
running the HCTS. It's "as easy" as that... That's what I started saying in
the beginning. Yes, it's a chicken/egg problem, but currently there seems to
be no profitable market for Sun/Oracle workstations. Others have higher
volume, and can therefore be cheaper. And cheap counts in many cases. Again:
This is all my thinking!

> Paul

Matthias
-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER  | Bad ideas and features
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | don't die out.
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  |
Germany  | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Unix Haters Handbook
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Paul Gress]

On 08/ 4/10 12:48 PM, John Martin wrote:

On 08/ 4/10 11:24 AM, Paul Gress wrote:


Yes I believe that would be true if the OS was developed for
Workstations. The only commitment I see from Oracle is Servers and
Databases. Would CUDA help there?


Large scale GPGPU deployment is being done on servers.



As HPC?, and for what industry?  I guess I don't understand servers.  I 
at one point in time looked at utilizing Sun/Oracle Servers as a HPC for 
my MCAD, but I couldn't determine if any could fit a Nvidia Quadro 
FX5800 graphics card, let alone supply the additional power required.  I 
did find some with a PCI Express x16 slot.  I'm not sure if Oracle is 
pushing this type of computer any more.


Me I would love to see Oracle go gungho with Workstations and HPC's 
again.  I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary yet.


Paul
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[John Martin]

On 08/ 4/10 11:24 AM, Paul Gress wrote:


Yes I believe that would be true if the OS was developed for
Workstations. The only commitment I see from Oracle is Servers and
Databases. Would CUDA help there?


Large scale GPGPU deployment is being done on servers.
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Re: [osol-discuss] Wacom Pressure Sensitivity in VirtualBox

[valrh...@gmail.com]

Cool; thanks!
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[valrh...@gmail.com]

So CUDA is for numerical computation, and doesn't involve any display, per se. 
Of course you can visualize your results with the graphics card in many cases 
with OpenGL directly, but that's not the point.

There have long been rumors about a CUDA driver for Solaris / OpenSolaris, but 
it's never been official.

One technical detail: NVIDIA's compilers take either CUDA C -or- OpenCL, and 
compile the source code to a form of assembler called PTX, and that's fed to 
the graphics card. So by CUDA, I mean CUDA and OpenCL, since one driver will 
automatically support both, the way they have it architected and designed. They 
are not stupid; they want people to use their cards, so they support OpenCL 
more than anyone.

And, frankly, vendor independence isn't all it's cracked up to be in this 
situation. ATI/AMD have not invested much effort in getting their act together 
on OpenCL in the real world. Probably 95+% that I know of, doing real 
scientific or engineering work, are doing it with CUDA, because it's much more 
established, and the real investment isn't in the boards, but in the months and 
years it takes to learn the programming paradigm. 

But remember that, with any NVIDIA CUDA driver, it will always support the 
latest OpenCL, too (and any open distribution should loudly insist on that 
capability). It's not that I think people here should spend the resources doing 
that, but more to get in contact with NVIDIA and make sure their drivers are 
available.

I can tell you that it would be PERFECT for us to have a Nexenta-like 
non-desktop distribution based on IllumOS, where we could run a very efficient 
small OS and use it to deploy a lot of GPUs. Much as you want the OS and its 
details to be invisible for NAS storage, just presenting a mapped drive via NFS 
to the user, if you could do the same with a GPU for computing, that owuld be 
ideal. I just need a command line, access to a lot of storage and RAM, and 
that's it. SSHing in and out is perfectly fine; don't even need (or want) much 
of a GUI.

Right now, there is NO platform that would give my data the security and 
management features of ZFS, and the access to GPU computing. If IllumOS could 
do this in a reliable, straightforward manner, I could see it being deployed in 
a lot of places very quickly. Thanks!
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Paul Gress]

On 08/ 4/10 11:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:


I guess, I don't get, what you're after?

The nVIDIA device driver is written by nVIDIA, not Oracle!

Solaris/OpenSolaris is not specifically a Server or Workstation OS, it's an
OS. People use it. Oracle/Sun currently only sells server-hardware. So, trying
to derive from that fact, that Solaris/OpenSolaris is only a server OS is a
conclusion done by someone. But, if people would be using Solaris/OpenSolaris
more for Desktop, then that would be helping nVIDIA in porting/migrating (my
guess).

You all here can help with that:

Now with the 3rd-party hardware support option, you only need to certify your
workstations using the HCTS, and buy support contracts... ;-) It's up to the
end-user, what they use the software (or here: the OS) for... ;-)

   


I guess you not getting where I'm going.  Nvidia is not going to write 
device drivers if there's no market.  Without any more HPC and 
Workstations, why would you write it?  I have been using 
Solaris/Opensolaris for 15 years as a Workstation.  I started with an 
Ultra2 running Pro-Engineer a MCAD application, and continued through 
today using Opensolaris on an HPZ800 Workstation.  Where I'm afraid is 
Oracle has removed all Workstations from their product offering and 
hasn't updated the HPC website for almost a year.  When I read the 
Hardware Compatability notes for PTC Pro-Engineer WF5, it states there 
are no current plans for its next generation WF6 MCAD product to be 
developed on Solaris 10.  This means to me, that funding to keep 
development going has ceased, from Oracle and PTC.  I believe this is 
only the tip of the Iceberg.  Without Workstations being offered, the 
ECAD, MCAD and HPC communities will dry up.


Nvidia will waste their time developing a driver which no one can use.  
They need applications that require it.  I see IBM, the makers of Catia 
and Solidworks announced a new CAD program to run on Windows, MacOS and 
Linux.  Where is Solaris/Opensolaris?  If Oracle isn't supporting their 
OS on Workstations, why should anybody else?


Paul
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Re: [osol-discuss] Wacom Pressure Sensitivity in VirtualBox

[Ignacio Marambio Catán]

it does
http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/cdrecord.html

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:58 PM, valrh...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Okay, then, do tell me: does CDRecord support BluRay?
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Re: [osol-discuss] Wacom Pressure Sensitivity in VirtualBox

[valrh...@gmail.com]

Okay, then, do tell me: does CDRecord support BluRay?
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Matthias Pfützner]

You (Paul Gress) wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 09:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:
>>
>> I wasn't refering to Illumos adding anything. I just mentioned, that nVIDIA
>> does write the driver for all versions of Solaris and that they are therefore
>> the focal point of contact, just like you mentioned. I only asked you, as you
>> are in good contact with nVIDIA and might have known anything about their
>> possible plans w.r.t. CUDA or OpenCL... ;-) But: I know: No Comment...;-)
>>
>> And: Yes, if there's business, they'll do it, that's for sure...
>
> Yes I believe that would be true if the OS was developed for Workstations.  
> The only commitment I see from Oracle is Servers and Databases.  Would CUDA 
> help there?

I guess, I don't get, what you're after?

The nVIDIA device driver is written by nVIDIA, not Oracle!

Solaris/OpenSolaris is not specifically a Server or Workstation OS, it's an
OS. People use it. Oracle/Sun currently only sells server-hardware. So, trying
to derive from that fact, that Solaris/OpenSolaris is only a server OS is a
conclusion done by someone. But, if people would be using Solaris/OpenSolaris
more for Desktop, then that would be helping nVIDIA in porting/migrating (my
guess).

You all here can help with that:

Now with the 3rd-party hardware support option, you only need to certify your
workstations using the HCTS, and buy support contracts... ;-) It's up to the
end-user, what they use the software (or here: the OS) for... ;-)

  Matthias
-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER  | I report bugs to Sun and 
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | when I'm not ignored, I'm
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  | told that that's the way
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Mike Gerdts]

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Paul Gress  wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 09:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:
>
> I wasn't refering to Illumos adding anything. I just mentioned, that nVIDIA
> does write the driver for all versions of Solaris and that they are
> therefore
> the focal point of contact, just like you mentioned. I only asked you, as
> you
> are in good contact with nVIDIA and might have known anything about their
> possible plans w.r.t. CUDA or OpenCL... ;-) But: I know: No Comment...;-)
>
> And: Yes, if there's business, they'll do it, that's for sure...
>
>
>
> Yes I believe that would be true if the OS was developed for Workstations.
> The only commitment I see from Oracle is Servers and Databases.  Would CUDA
> help there?
>

CUDA and OpenCL seem to be heavily used in HPC for general purpose
calculations - not necessarily for displaying to a screen.  For
example...

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1226945999108.html

-- 
Mike Gerdts
http://mgerdts.blogspot.com/
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Joe Little]

I think people are missing the point here. This is just my $0.02, but
the effort is akin to kernel.org. They are maintaining a fully-open
base system in which others may build a distribution from. It is a lot
of userland too, but its most akin to being kernel, libc, and what one
expects in /sbin. They want to be upstream compatible. If a
distribution wants to use their revision of ON as a _basis_ for their
distribution, great. Efforts to support third party components will
generally sit upon a full distribution, which is not being provided by
IllumOS.

They mentioned that a "distribution" may be released, but its whole
purpose is a bootstrap to help create a more complete full
distribution. If you want a workstation/desktop class, one could for
instance use StormOS or similar, which is a workstation/desktop
edition above Nexenta Core by another third party. We are all talking
about various building blocks here. One can't expect the end product
from the group thats solely focused on engine parts.

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Paul Gress  wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 09:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:
>
> I wasn't refering to Illumos adding anything. I just mentioned, that nVIDIA
> does write the driver for all versions of Solaris and that they are
> therefore
> the focal point of contact, just like you mentioned. I only asked you, as
> you
> are in good contact with nVIDIA and might have known anything about their
> possible plans w.r.t. CUDA or OpenCL... ;-) But: I know: No Comment...;-)
>
> And: Yes, if there's business, they'll do it, that's for sure...
>
>
>
> Yes I believe that would be true if the OS was developed for Workstations.
> The only commitment I see from Oracle is Servers and Databases.  Would CUDA
> help there?
>
>
>
> But, like Adrian Cockcroft did twitter last night: "I predict that #illumos
> will be just as irrelevant as Solaris has been for the last few
> years. Legacy."
>
>
>
> Illumos will hopefully move in a somewhat Desktop/Workstation direction.
> But I don't see that for at least 3 months until they get the building
> process streamlined, then they can focus on enhancing it.
>
>
> Paul
>
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Paul Gress]

On 08/ 4/10 09:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:


I wasn't refering to Illumos adding anything. I just mentioned, that nVIDIA
does write the driver for all versions of Solaris and that they are therefore
the focal point of contact, just like you mentioned. I only asked you, as you
are in good contact with nVIDIA and might have known anything about their
possible plans w.r.t. CUDA or OpenCL... ;-) But: I know: No Comment...;-)

And: Yes, if there's business, they'll do it, that's for sure...

   



Yes I believe that would be true if the OS was developed for 
Workstations.  The only commitment I see from Oracle is Servers and 
Databases.  Would CUDA help there?





But, like Adrian Cockcroft did twitter last night: "I predict that #illumos
will be just as irrelevant as Solaris has been for the last few
years. Legacy."

   



Illumos will hopefully move in a somewhat Desktop/Workstation 
direction.  But I don't see that for at least 3 months until they get 
the building process streamlined, then they can focus on enhancing it.



Paul
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Matthias Pfützner]

John, you know me!

I only was dissatisfied by Adrian's comment, he also should know better!

  Matthias

You (John Martin) wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 09:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:
>
>> But, like Adrian Cockcroft did twitter last night:
>
> Mr. Ellison is backing Solaris.  Pick your horse.
>

-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER  | I report bugs to Sun and 
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | when I'm not ignored, I'm
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  | told that that's the way
Germany  | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | it's supposed to work.
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[John Martin]

On 08/ 4/10 09:40 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:


But, like Adrian Cockcroft did twitter last night:


Mr. Ellison is backing Solaris.  Pick your horse.
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Re: [osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Chris Ridd]

On 4 Aug 2010, at 14:43, Andras Barna wrote:

> you can get it from the IPS repo, right?

Yes, but the version in IPS is not the correct version required to build the 
open sourced consolidations.

Cheers,

Chris
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Re: [osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Andras Barna]

you can get it from the IPS repo, right?


On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Giovanni Tirloni  wrote:
>> > ools/sun_studio_12_tools> has links to the versions
>> of Sun Studio 12 required for building ON et al.
>>
>> But trying just now, those downloads require a
>> support contract and not just a valid (free) Sun
>> account.
>>
>> Is this a temporary or permanent problem?
>
> I downloaded Sun Studio 12 using my personal Sun account at home without any 
> problem last Saturday.
>
> Tried to download it at work today and got the following message: "You have 
> selected Content/Patches which requires a Specific type of Contract to 
> Access." I switched to my business account and it worked just fine.
>
> Looks like IllumOS just got a new goal: compile and boot with GCC / LLVM.
>
> --
> Giovanni Tirloni
> gtirl...@sysdroid.com
> --
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>



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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Matthias Pfützner]

John

You (John Martin) wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 05:27 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:
>> John Martin, any ideas?
>>
>> As this also would work for the "standard" Solaris, because at least, nVIDIA
>> already does provide the drivers for Solaris...
>
> I don't see how Illumos provides added incentive
> (ignoring potential open versus closed friction).
>
> NVIDIA owns CUDA.  Let them know how many Quadro boards
> you will buy.

I wasn't refering to Illumos adding anything. I just mentioned, that nVIDIA
does write the driver for all versions of Solaris and that they are therefore
the focal point of contact, just like you mentioned. I only asked you, as you
are in good contact with nVIDIA and might have known anything about their
possible plans w.r.t. CUDA or OpenCL... ;-) But: I know: No Comment...;-)

And: Yes, if there's business, they'll do it, that's for sure...

But, like Adrian Cockcroft did twitter last night: "I predict that #illumos
will be just as irrelevant as Solaris has been for the last few
years. Legacy."

And that coming from Adrian, former Mr Solaris... ;-(

Matthias

P.S.: The quote below is from the famous "Unix Haters Handbook", and appears
  here just by accident (/dev/random selection of signatures... ;-) )
-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER  | I report bugs to Sun and 
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | when I'm not ignored, I'm
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  | told that that's the way
Germany  | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | it's supposed to work.
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[John Martin]

On 08/ 4/10 05:27 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote:

John Martin, any ideas?

As this also would work for the "standard" Solaris, because at least, nVIDIA
already does provide the drivers for Solaris...


I don't see how Illumos provides added incentive
(ignoring potential open versus closed friction).

NVIDIA owns CUDA.  Let them know how many Quadro boards
you will buy.
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Re: [osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Giovanni Tirloni]

>  ools/sun_studio_12_tools> has links to the versions
> of Sun Studio 12 required for building ON et al.
> 
> But trying just now, those downloads require a
> support contract and not just a valid (free) Sun
> account.
> 
> Is this a temporary or permanent problem?

I downloaded Sun Studio 12 using my personal Sun account at home without any 
problem last Saturday.

Tried to download it at work today and got the following message: "You have 
selected Content/Patches which requires a Specific type of Contract to Access." 
I switched to my business account and it worked just fine. 

Looks like IllumOS just got a new goal: compile and boot with GCC / LLVM.

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gtirl...@sysdroid.com
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Peter Jones]

The Illumos Project
Posted: Jul 31, 2010 2:18 AM
To: OpenSolaris » discuss
Cc: Communities » advocacy » discuss

Click to reply to this thread   Reply

A number of the community leaders from the OpenSolaris community have
been working quietly together on a new effort called Illumos, and we're
just about ready to fully disclose our work to, and invite the general
participation of, the general public.

We believe that everyone who is interested in OpenSolaris should be
interested in what we have to say, and so we invite the entire
OpenSolaris community to join us for a presentation on at 1PM EDT on
August 3, 2010.

You can find out the full details of how to listen in to our conference,
or attend in person (we will be announcing from New York City) by
visiting http://www.illumos.org/announce (The final details shall be
posted there not later than 1PM EDT Aug 1, 2010.)

We look forward to seeing you there!

- Garrett D'Amore & the rest of the Illumos Cast


I wish you luck however I hope you will shorten the project name to OSI or ICE 
as the name no doubt will not transfer so easily between 
countries,disabilities, or cultures? Will  you also considering a simplified 
logo of a sun or planet in MAC graphics style which seems very appropriate?
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[osol-discuss] Access to Sun Studio tools for building ON is broken

[Chris Ridd]

 
has links to the versions of Sun Studio 12 required for building ON et al.

But trying just now, those downloads require a support contract and not just a 
valid (free) Sun account.

Is this a temporary or permanent problem?

Cheers,

Chris
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Re: [osol-discuss] Trouble formating usb external hard drive.

[Mike DeMarco]

> By the way, a duel is a formal fight between two
> persons armed with 
> deadly weapons.  I assume your operating systems
> aren't engages in 
> mortal combat!

Yes Duel boot Windows and Solaris. If ever there were two entities locked in 
mortal combat it is Windows and Solaris.

Thanks for the correction. Dual as in two
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Re: [osol-discuss] Trouble formating usb external hard drive.

[Mike DeMarco]

Thanks for the response.

This worked. The first time I setup the fdisk table and attempted to mkfs it 
complained about I/O error. I thought it may be a size thing with usb so I cut 
the partition size down to 500Gig. This went right through so I incremented to 
750G which also worked so I went back to 1Tbyte and it worked. Don't know why I 
got the IO error the first time but I am happy now..


Thanks
mike
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Tom Kranz]

> If you're going there, I'd be more interested in
> OpenCL, which
> is vendor-independent.  That for Nvidia devices,
> getting to OpenCL
> might also get one to CUDA along the way is to my
> mind secondary.

As an end result, that's a good goal to aim for - but there's already been a 
proof-of-concept port of CUDA to OpenSolaris, and so I'm assuming (eagerly 
hoping, actually) that CUDA could be a realistically achievable short-term 
solution.

Cheers,
TOM
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Richard L. Hamilton]

> John Martin, any ideas?
> 
> As this also would work for the "standard" Solaris,
> because at least, nVIDIA
> already does provide the drivers for Solaris...
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home_new.html
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/what_is_cuda_new.html
> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda_3_1_downloads.
> html
> 
> Also curious, although I guess, I would not do any
> active programming for
> it... ;-)

If you're going there, I'd be more interested in OpenCL, which
is vendor-independent.  That for Nvidia devices, getting to OpenCL
might also get one to CUDA along the way is to my mind secondary.
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Matthias Pfützner]

John Martin, any ideas?

As this also would work for the "standard" Solaris, because at least, nVIDIA
already does provide the drivers for Solaris...

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home_new.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/what_is_cuda_new.html
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda_3_1_downloads.html

Also curious, although I guess, I would not do any active programming for
it... ;-)

  Matthias

You (valrh...@gmail.com) wrote:
> Secondarily, is there any possible way you can talk to NVIDIA and get CUDA 
> support running with this? That would be an enormous watershed for some of us 
> who do GPU computing for scientific work. I need a robust filesystem and 
> management (ZFS is my only choice now), and it's painful to have to keep 
> Linux around mainly for CUDA. That would be huge, if you guys could swing it 
> somehow.


-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER  | Sie (Susanne Tamaro) ist 
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | auf eine geradezu hin-
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  | reißende Weise blöd.
Germany  | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Marcel Reich-Ranicki
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Re: [osol-discuss] New onnv distro naming suggestion

[Joerg Schilling]

Bruno Sousa  wrote:

> How about OpenOS ? ;)

It seems that you all look for nice names, but forget that we are not living in 
a vacuum. You need to find a name that is not yet in use and that has an 
available domain.

Jörg

-- 
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   j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni)  
   joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: 
http://schily.blogspot.com/
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Re: [osol-discuss] Wacom Pressure Sensitivity in VirtualBox

[Joerg Schilling]

"valrh...@gmail.com"  wrote:

> Thanks, and we've already been over this particular issue, and I'm still not 
> interested in using CDrecord at this point. I'd ask anyone else if they've 
> been able to use VirtualBox non-open-source to get DVD-writing access within 
> Windows? Thanks.

If you don't like to use the native method to write DVDs this is your 
decision...but please do not complain.

Jörg

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   joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: 
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Re: [osol-discuss] The Illumos Project

[Ben]

Love the sound of this project!

If there is a fork in the future, do we think that we can just point our 
installs to the Illumos repo and do `pkg image-update`?  Or am I missing the 
point somewhat?

Whatever happens, good luck to you guys!
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