Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Thomas Nau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back to Sun itself: in my opinion they dropped the desktop many years ago during the dot-gone era. They forgot about their own roots and the university kids at the time didn't learn Solaris but Linux and those are the ones to drive decisions today. Actually I do not believe that Sun as a This is what I did tell everybody already in the late 1990. We need to approach students at the universities because the students od today are the decision makers of tomorrow. But unfortunately the situation has become so bad now that Sun would need to agressivly approach the people in the univsersities who are responsible for the computer pools to make Solaris be present again in the universities. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Thu, 2006-06-01 at 16:14 +1200, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: Look at Rhythmbox; compare Rhythmbox to Amarok - I can sync my iPod, listen to music, create play lists etc. etc. all from the same application. FWIW, rhythmbox can do that too (in Dapper at least, patches heading upstream soon hopefully.) Look at the applications on KDE; they speak for themselves! maybe my writing ability at this time of the afternoon is rather crap, but setup two machines, and compare; compare the usability and integration of KOffice compared to OpenOffice.org; compare the ease of use of KDE PIM with Evolution. Compare the feature richness of Amarok compared to Rhythmbox. GNOME and KDE have always had different philosophies; KDE goes for the ability to configure everything, GNOME prefers decent defaults and uncluttered GUIs, with the ability to fine-tune things from the command line. If you want to debate those philosophies, feel free to do so on the appropriate GNOME or KDE list. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
I'm not talking servers but desktop clients. This means that they most likely for most of the time end up with big vendors such as Dell, IBM, Fujitsu Siemens, HP and so on. If you look closer up till recenty ALL of those business boxes came with the latest Intel chipset and CPU. 95% still do as it seems no one dares to put AMD in business PCs at a large scale. Working for the infrastructure department of a german university we also go through this once in a while. OS hardware support for this latest dies is always given for Windows as but looking at the UNIX side it gets much harder and Linux distros and developers to a pretty good job there. Even FreeBSD and the others are behind so no wonder that the small but very enthusiastic OpenSolaris community cannot really keep up coding for new chipsets and on-board devices. Even if they could I doubt such customers would go for it as Linux is just more hip and decision makers for sure don't get grilled for picking it. Maybe those people would even consider OpenSolaris not ready for business. Most of this paragraph was building up to a valid point, but the ending kind of ruined it for me :) You talk about business needs, but suddenly all that doesn't matter since Linux is hipper anyway. Is that what decision makers are paid for these days? And I've heard the you can't go wrong with IBM mantra, but it's the first time I hear of Linux as a safe bet. Not possessing any real data I can't disagree here, but it sounds a bit depressing. Sorry for ruining it but I feel the same as you about: depressed! I cannot proof that I'm right in any case but I've seen to many where people just acted as I wrote. About the mantra: with the adoption of Linux by the big players it was just a matter of time some managers started thinking like this. What they don't get is that the adoption at the same time means creating problems with inter-vendor-linux interoperability as each of them tends to improve it's distro Thomas - GPG fingerprint: B1 EE D2 39 2C 82 26 DA A5 4D E0 50 35 75 9E ED ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Wed, 31 May 2006, Paul Gress wrote: Artem Kachitchkine wrote: Most of this paragraph was building up to a valid point, but the ending kind of ruined it for me :) You talk about business needs, but suddenly all that doesn't matter since Linux is hipper anyway. Is that what decision makers are paid for these days? And I've heard the you can't go wrong with IBM mantra, but it's the first time I hear of Linux as a safe bet. Not possessing any real data I can't disagree here, but it sounds a bit depressing. While I agree this is true today, I believe Solaris will win in the long run. What it has now, that Linux doesn't have, is a stable ABI. More commercial software will be ported due to this fact. I really wish this becomes true. Comparing what's available today and how small ISVs react on a porting request for Solaris x86 rises some doubt for me. You are really making a good point about the ABI and it causes a lot of trouble but still too many people seem to be just blind or unwilling to recognize It appears in a reasonable amount of time Solaris will have most of the gnu software running. No doubt about that but two important features are hardware and small ISVs if you talk business or education Thomas - GPG fingerprint: B1 EE D2 39 2C 82 26 DA A5 4D E0 50 35 75 9E ED ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? why not just buy out Trolltech, release Qt under CDDL? C++ -- Darren J Moffat ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Alan DuBoff wrote On 05/31/06 22:28,: On Wednesday 31 May 2006 08:50 pm, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: So, what is it? is Solaris a desktop or a server operating system? come on, admit it, you're just burning to say, Matty, its a server OS! No, most folks at this point are just burning to ask, what the [EMAIL PROTECTED] does this have to do with OpenSolaris?. Let's try to stick to discussions based on OpenSolaris. This is the ON consolidation at this point. OpenSolaris is far more than ON at this point - have you checked out the downloads page recently? NWS, JDS, X, packaging software from Install, pieces of DevPro, pieces of G11N, 4 manuals from Pubs. And work in progress with more code from multiple consolidations coming over the next months. Bonnie ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On May 31, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Artem Kachitchkine wrote: ...Even if they could I doubt such customers would go for it as Linux is just more hip and decision makers for sure don't get grilled for picking it. Maybe those people would even consider OpenSolaris not ready for business. Most of this paragraph was building up to a valid point, but the ending kind of ruined it for me :) You talk about business needs, but suddenly all that doesn't matter since Linux is hipper anyway. Is that what decision makers are paid for these days? And I've heard the you can't go wrong with IBM mantra, but it's the first time I hear of Linux as a safe bet. Not possessing any real data I can't disagree here, but it sounds a bit depressing. He's pointing out how the rest of the universe outside of Sun sees Linux. I can't say I disagree with him on his point. Not that *I personally* see Linux as a safe bet, but that decision makers definitely do. The tech press (which lots of CIOs read) portrays Linux in a good light to the IT world, that's for sure. -john ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? http://www.sun.com/software/star/gnome/faq/generalfaq.xml#q23 has some of the answers - it's missing a few reasons, like C++ is a nightmare to use for system libraries since we'd have to tie it to Sun Studio and lock out all g++ users or pick one of the generations of the g++ ABI and lock out all other versions of g++. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Thursday 01 June 2006 06:44 am, Bonnie Corwin wrote: OpenSolaris is far more than ON at this point - have you checked out the downloads page recently? NWS, JDS, X, packaging software from Install, pieces of DevPro, pieces of G11N, 4 manuals from Pubs. How does Sun package this up then? I guess this is confusing to me, this implies these are available, but are they integrated together? Certainly there is a lot of OSS in Solaris (i.e., the distribution as we all know it), but how is Sun integrating those together so that the those software packages are seamlessly integrated into OpenSolaris? And work in progress with more code from multiple consolidations coming over the next months. This is good. -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Thursday 01 June 2006 06:48 am, John Martinez wrote: On May 31, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Artem Kachitchkine wrote: ...Even if they could I doubt such customers would go for it as Linux is just more hip and decision makers for sure don't get grilled for picking it. Maybe those people would even consider OpenSolaris not ready for business. Most of this paragraph was building up to a valid point, but the ending kind of ruined it for me :) You talk about business needs, but suddenly all that doesn't matter since Linux is hipper anyway. Is that what decision makers are paid for these days? And I've heard the you can't go wrong with IBM mantra, but it's the first time I hear of Linux as a safe bet. Not possessing any real data I can't disagree here, but it sounds a bit depressing. He's pointing out how the rest of the universe outside of Sun sees Linux. I can't say I disagree with him on his point. Not that *I personally* see Linux as a safe bet, but that decision makers definitely do. The tech press (which lots of CIOs read) portrays Linux in a good light to the IT world, that's for sure. I completely agree. Linux is considered a safe bet by many, since it is talked about and the momentum of it continues to snowball. The real challenge for Solaris/OpenSolaris is wether it can overcome being shadow'd by this snowball effect of a less product. I won't say a bad product, I won't say inferior, just less of a product in the sense of the function and feature that it offers. Solaris is less in some ways also. For me to say that Solaris/OpenSolaris is more of a product might have little impact, I also had a BETAMAX Pro deck in my garage, and a host of OS/2 manuals alongside...more doesn't always win, unfortunately. With that said, Solaris is now open with OpenSolaris. Our community is allowed to innovate on it now, and the community can work with Sun. This was a huge step, IMO. Many of the bean counters and IT folks are either 1) sticking with Solaris and moving to commodity hardware, or 2) in some cases replacing Linux that they had previously selected and had problems with. This is afterall the first time that Sun is actually behind and promoting Solaris on x86/x64 systems, and the x64 product is ahead of any other 64-bit OS in it's category. Sun has the software, Sun has the hardware to back it up with systems coming out. If Sun can just market the product correctly, they have a winner. -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Thursday 01 June 2006 10:46 am, James Carlson wrote: I'm confused. I thought integration (beyond the usual design and archtectural considerations in each project) was a job for particular distributions, not something that Open Solaris itself provides. You'll find all those non-ON things Bonnie mentioned on the web site today. What more did you want? http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/ So, someone shows up to eat dinner. Instead of a meal presented to them on a plate, there's a bag of groceries to prepare. How many of those folks do you think will come back and eat at this resturaunt again? Why assemble ON even? Why not make them assemble that themself and add whatever device drives they need? Maybe the SPARC miniroot can be brought down in size that way so it can fit easily on a CD. -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Alan DuBoff writes: You'll find all those non-ON things Bonnie mentioned on the web site today. What more did you want? http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/ So, someone shows up to eat dinner. Instead of a meal presented to them on a plate, there's a bag of groceries to prepare. Right. How many of those folks do you think will come back and eat at this resturaunt again? I'd be disappointed, too, if I walked into a grocery store and expected restaurant service. The checkout people would probably be just as puzzled by my order. ;-} If they wanted a restaurant instead of a grocery store, they should have looked up restaurants instead. 'Solaris Express' is one such restaurant. 'BeleniX' is another. 'SchilliX' a third. And so on. Why assemble ON even? Why not make them assemble that themself and add whatever device drives they need? Maybe the SPARC miniroot can be brought down in size that way so it can fit easily on a CD. The consolidations are groups of (sometimes loosely) related software that are built and developed together. Within each consolidation, you've got a bunch of projects. A group of consolidations gives you a WOS -- wad of stuff -- and that's what we (Sun) put into our own distribution. ON is assembled because that's what's convenient for development work. We could certainly break it down into smaller parts, provided that we take care of the hidden dependencies among those parts such that they can be built and developed separately. -- James Carlson, KISS Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Alan DuBoff wrote: On Thursday 01 June 2006 06:44 am, Bonnie Corwin wrote: OpenSolaris is far more than ON at this point - have you checked out the downloads page recently? NWS, JDS, X, packaging software from Install, pieces of DevPro, pieces of G11N, 4 manuals from Pubs. How does Sun package this up then? I guess this is confusing to me, this implies these are available, but are they integrated together? Certainly there is a lot of OSS in Solaris (i.e., the distribution as we all know it), but how is Sun integrating those together so that the those software packages are seamlessly integrated into OpenSolaris? We don't - OpenSolaris is just source code - you can download a tarball with ON source, another with X source, another with JDS source, and so on. They are integrated together by the various distros. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Alan DuBoff wrote: So, someone shows up to eat dinner. Instead of a meal presented to them on a plate, there's a bag of groceries to prepare. How many of those folks do you think will come back and eat at this resturaunt again? If they want a restaurant meal, they go to a restaurant. If they want a pre-assembled distro, they get Solaris Express, Schillix, Nexenta, or Belenix. Some people like to cook up their own concoctions - they go to the grocery store or download the OpenSolaris sources. Why assemble ON even? Why not make them assemble that themself and add whatever device drives they need? Maybe the SPARC miniroot can be brought down in size that way so it can fit easily on a CD. It's always fit on a CD - CD based install couldn't work if it didn't. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Thursday 01 June 2006 11:20 am, James Carlson wrote: I'd be disappointed, too, if I walked into a grocery store and expected restaurant service. The checkout people would probably be just as puzzled by my order. ;-} If they wanted a restaurant instead of a grocery store, they should have looked up restaurants instead. 'Solaris Express' is one such restaurant. 'BeleniX' is another. 'SchilliX' a third. And so on. But how can you point out that JDS, X, or any other OSS is a part of OpenSolaris? This makes no sense to me. Big deal, Sun uses them in the entree at thier resturaunt, seems these were being pointed out as being a part of OpenSolaris. -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:19:22AM -0700, Rich Teer wrote: Agreed, although I have some concern about the marketing aspects. Keep on marketing to the converted, but I think the biggest challenge for Sun's marketroids is converting the uninitiated, i.e., creating more Sun/Solaris brand awareness. absolutely. Time for another sun/solaris marketing splurge. Sun did it a year ago or so, when they started to ramp up x86 again. you started seeing solaris all over the place on the net, like slashdot, and various trade mags. It should be a yearly, or even twice yearly, thing, i think. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Thu, 2006-06-01 at 14:51 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Alan DuBoff wrote: But how can you point out that JDS, X, or any other OSS is a part of OpenSolaris? This makes no sense to me. How can you claim they are not? That makes no sense to me. They are available on opensolaris.org and form a part of the OS distros people use. What makes them any less part of OpenSolaris? It is confusing.. :-) Lets consider Xorg for instance. It is part of opensolaris.org site and some integration work being done. But the fact that it is tarballed at opensolaris.org or used in various distros does not prove anything. There are upstreams where all these OSS projects are developed. OpenSolaris community contributes quite a bit to those projects but it doesn't give us any rights to say that Xorg is now part of OpenSolaris *upstream* (i.e. where OpenSolaris developed). But yes, Xorg is part of some OpenSolaris-based distributions. Erast ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/73711 12000 PCs running Solaris soince 1993 are now migrating to Linux. It is a pitty to see that this important costomer got lost because of wrong information from the Linux camp. They wanted OpenSource kde and claimed that they need to move away from Solaris in order to get this. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
If I'm reading the articles correctly, when they made the decision two years ago the information was, unfortunately, valid. Regards, Glenn Joerg Schilling wrote: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/73711 12000 PCs running Solaris soince 1993 are now migrating to Linux. It is a pitty to see that this important costomer got lost because of wrong information from the Linux camp. They wanted OpenSource kde and claimed that they need to move away from Solaris in order to get this. Jrg -- Glenn Weinberg Vice President, Operating Platforms Group Sun Microsystems, Inc. 17 Network Circle, MS UMPK17-301 Menlo Park, CA 94025 US Phone x86207/+1 650 786 6207 Fax +1 650 786 7077 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Glenn Weinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm reading the articles correctly, when they made the decision two years ago the information was, unfortunately, valid. They did make the final decision last year. The process did start in autumn 2000 when the Linux Verband Deutschland did aproach the OFD Niedersachsen and did tell them that Sun will shut down Solaris x86 support. The final convincing work did start in autumn 2004. This is wy I did aproach Sun marketing at that time when I was in Menlo Park. From the information I have, the final decision must have been made recently. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
They did make the final decision last year. The process did start in autumn 2000 when the Linux Verband Deutschlanddid aproach the OFD Niedersachsen and did tell them that Sun will shut down Solaris x86 support. The final convincing work did start in autumn 2004.This is wy I did aproach Sun marketing at that time when I was in Menlo Park. That's really, and I mean REALLY dirty. What an absolute shame, especially with the cause being such disgusting actions on the part of LVD. :( From the information I have, the final decision must have been made recently. Yarr, let's loot and ransack LVD! In all seriousness, I hope now with larger community involvement we can spot FUD campaigns like this one before they become successful, and Sun can intervene. David ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
David J. Orman wrote: They did make the final decision last year. The process did start in autumn 2000 when the Linux Verband Deutschland"did aproach the OFD Niedersachsen and did tell them that Sun will shut down Solaris x86 support. The final convincing work did start in autumn 2004.This is wy I did aproach Sun marketing at that time when I was in Menlo Park. That's really, and I mean REALLY dirty. What an absolute shame, especially with the cause being such disgusting actions on the part of LVD. :( We need to be fair here. Sun did "defer" Solaris for x86 in 2002. We didn't really get it fully back on track until Solaris 10 in 2005. So even in late 2004 all a customer had from us was statements of intent, not an actual product. From the information I have, the final decision must have been made recently. Yarr, let's loot and ransack LVD! In all seriousness, I hope now with larger community involvement we can spot FUD campaigns like this one before they become successful, and Sun can intervene. If someone tries something like this now, it would in fact be FUD and we could vigorously combat it. We couldn't do that prior to the release of Solaris 10, and to some extent even OpenSolaris. There is no question Sun made mistakes that we're still trying to recover from. Regards, Glenn -- Glenn Weinberg Vice President, Operating Platforms Group Sun Microsystems, Inc. 17 Network Circle, MS UMPK17-301 Menlo Park, CA 94025 US Phone x86207/+1 650 786 6207 Fax +1 650 786 7077 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 5/31/06, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glenn Weinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm reading the articles correctly, when they made the decision two years ago the information was, unfortunately, valid. They did make the final decision last year. The process did start in autumn 2000 when the Linux Verband Deutschland did aproach the OFD Niedersachsen and did tell them that Sun will shut down Solaris x86 support. The final convincing work did start in autumn 2004. This is wy I did aproach Sun marketing at that time when I was in Menlo Park. From the information I have, the final decision must have been made recently. Noone from OFD Niedersachsen has contacted KDE Solaris to at least ask a generic question about whether or not KDE is supported on Solaris X86. --Stefan -- Stefan Teleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
We need to be fair here. Sun did defer Solaris for x86 in 2002. We didn't really get it fully back on track until Solaris 10 in 2005. So even in late 2004 all a customer had from us was statements of intent, not an actual product. Good point. I wasn't involved with Sun at all during this time period, so I didn't realize this was true. If someone tries something like this now, it would in fact be FUD and we could vigorously combat it. We couldn't do that prior to the release of Solaris 10, and to some extent even OpenSolaris. Makes sense. There is no question Sun made mistakes that we're still trying to recover from. Well, I'm glad at least the mistakes are realized and that the company is headed in the right direction now. I guess that's the first key to recovery at least in this sense. Thank you for the clarification, David ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Wednesday 31 May 2006 11:49 am, Glenn Weinberg wrote: We need to be fair here. Sun did defer Solaris for x86 in 2002. We didn't really get it fully back on track until Solaris 10 in 2005. So even in late 2004 all a customer had from us was statements of intent, not an actual product. I wouldn't go that far, since Sun even continued shipping S9U2+ for x86, starting around November of 2002. IOW, I believe Sun missed the first S9 release due to the indefinite delay (which turned out to be definite anyway;-) but picked the ball back up with either S9U1 or S9U2 on x86. A product is a pretty good statement of intention, IMO, not to dispute you!wink There is no question Sun made mistakes that we're still trying to recover from. I think there's a track record forming that is becoming impressive though. Sometimes when you're eating steak all the time, a hot dog doesn't taste so bad. If they did in fact convert over to Linux, they might not be the first to realize how good that steak tasted to begin with, or how poor the hot dog starts tasting over time. OTOH, some folks make a stable diet on hot dogs...:-/ -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Hi all On Wed, 31 May 2006, Stefan Teleman wrote: On 5/31/06, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glenn Weinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm reading the articles correctly, when they made the decision two years ago the information was, unfortunately, valid. They did make the final decision last year. The process did start in autumn 2000 when the Linux Verband Deutschland did aproach the OFD Niedersachsen and did tell them that Sun will shut down Solaris x86 support. The final convincing work did start in autumn 2004. This is wy I did aproach Sun marketing at that time when I was in Menlo Park. From the information I have, the final decision must have been made recently. Noone from OFD Niedersachsen has contacted KDE Solaris to at least ask a generic question about whether or not KDE is supported on Solaris X86. As other already said: a number of mistakes were made some years back which really confused the not too many Solaris x86 people out in the wild. Nevertheless we should complain about but focus on what's ahead. Before S10 and OpenSolaris came along Solaris simply wasn't ready for a mass market. Maybe for a customer as the mentioned one but it simply lacked a lot of things people just want to have. More on this further down. Another point mentioned in the refered article targets the support for the latest greatest hardware. In my opinion this is a valid and severe point for the OS. Customers like the fiscal authorities usually have to do tenders to get a large number of almost identical PC style hardware. I'm not talking servers but desktop clients. This means that they most likely for most of the time end up with big vendors such as Dell, IBM, Fujitsu Siemens, HP and so on. If you look closer up till recenty ALL of those business boxes came with the latest Intel chipset and CPU. 95% still do as it seems no one dares to put AMD in business PCs at a large scale. Working for the infrastructure department of a german university we also go through this once in a while. OS hardware support for this latest dies is always given for Windows as but looking at the UNIX side it gets much harder and Linux distros and developers to a pretty good job there. Even FreeBSD and the others are behind so no wonder that the small but very enthusiastic OpenSolaris community cannot really keep up coding for new chipsets and on-board devices. Even if they could I doubt such customers would go for it as Linux is just more hip and decision makers for sure don't get grilled for picking it. Maybe those people would even consider OpenSolaris not ready for business. Back to Sun itself: in my opinion they dropped the desktop many years ago during the dot-gone era. They forgot about their own roots and the university kids at the time didn't learn Solaris but Linux and those are the ones to drive decisions today. Actually I do not believe that Sun as a company really changed it's attitude. Sure they support AMD/Intel and have nice servers and some workstations based on. Sure Solaris is a great OS and in the meantime the compilers are superb. Also lots of old friends such as Oracle are loyal to x86 but too many of the smaller ISVs didn't really start yet supporting s10x86. They are either Linux addicts or are still scared the Sun folks may change their mind again. This leads to a situation where schools such as universities and others cannot provide solutions to their customers, students and staff, not because of the OS but because of a lack of supported applications. Sounds like a Catch 22 to me As long as this problem isn't solved or at least aggresivly addressed we will be in a similar postions as the BSDs and Apple used to be. The solution? I don't really know but have a new project/community for OpenSolaris every other day and already 3 (4?) distributions creates a lot of friction. Maybe we, the OpenSolaris supporters, should ask the people capable of kernel developing, to put more focus on the desktop by supporting new commodity hardware. The more poeple you meet running Solaris on their laptop/desktop the more others become aware of the choice they have. The choice named *BSD is around for a decade but they also just didn't manage or didn't want to make it 'sexy' enough. We should make sure to be ready when people recognize that choices are important and that stability and backwards compatibility are key. A hard way and tough job but times were never better then today. Well, sorry for a long comment on a tiny headline Thomas - GPG fingerprint: B1 EE D2 39 2C 82 26 DA A5 4D E0 50 35 75 9E ED ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
I'm not talking servers but desktop clients. This means that they most likely for most of the time end up with big vendors such as Dell, IBM, Fujitsu Siemens, HP and so on. If you look closer up till recenty ALL of those business boxes came with the latest Intel chipset and CPU. 95% still do as it seems no one dares to put AMD in business PCs at a large scale. Working for the infrastructure department of a german university we also go through this once in a while. OS hardware support for this latest dies is always given for Windows as but looking at the UNIX side it gets much harder and Linux distros and developers to a pretty good job there. Even FreeBSD and the others are behind so no wonder that the small but very enthusiastic OpenSolaris community cannot really keep up coding for new chipsets and on-board devices. Even if they could I doubt such customers would go for it as Linux is just more hip and decision makers for sure don't get grilled for picking it. Maybe those people would even consider OpenSolaris not ready for business. Most of this paragraph was building up to a valid point, but the ending kind of ruined it for me :) You talk about business needs, but suddenly all that doesn't matter since Linux is hipper anyway. Is that what decision makers are paid for these days? And I've heard the you can't go wrong with IBM mantra, but it's the first time I hear of Linux as a safe bet. Not possessing any real data I can't disagree here, but it sounds a bit depressing. -Artem. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 6/1/06, Stefan Teleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/31/06, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glenn Weinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm reading the articles correctly, when they made the decision two years ago the information was, unfortunately, valid. They did make the final decision last year. The process did start in autumn 2000 when the Linux Verband Deutschland did aproach the OFD Niedersachsen and did tell them that Sun will shut down Solaris x86 support. The final convincing work did start in autumn 2004. This is wy I did aproach Sun marketing at that time when I was in Menlo Park. From the information I have, the final decision must have been made recently.Noone from OFD Niedersachsen has contacted KDE Solaris to at least ask a generic question about whether or not KDE is supported on SolarisX86.One assumes that when Sun is solely backing GNOME, that there is no 'officiallly supported' KDE for Solaris - all very nice to have a 'community working on it' but companies like the warm fuzzy feeling knowing that there are people they can ring up and abuse when things go wrong. Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? why not just buy out Trolltech, release Qt under CDDL?Matty ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 6/1/06, Artem Kachitchkine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not talking servers but desktop clients. This means that they most likely for most of the time end up with big vendors such as Dell, IBM, Fujitsu Siemens, HP and so on. If you look closer up till recenty ALL of those business boxes came with the latest Intel chipset and CPU. 95% still do as it seems no one dares to put AMD in business PCs at a large scale. Working for the infrastructure department of a german university we also go through this once in a while. OS hardware support for this latest dies is always given for Windows as but looking at the UNIX side it gets much harder and Linux distros and developers to a pretty good job there. Even FreeBSD and the others are behind so no wonder that the small but very enthusiastic OpenSolaris community cannot really keep up coding for new chipsets and on-board devices. Even if they could I doubt such customers would go for it as Linux is just more hip and decision makers for sure don't get grilled for picking it. Maybe those people would even consider OpenSolaris not ready for business. Most of this paragraph was building up to a valid point, but the ending kind ofruined it for me :) You talk about business needs, but suddenly all that doesn'tmatter since Linux is hipper anyway. Is that what decision makers are paid for these days? And I've heard the you can't go wrong with IBM mantra, but it'sthe first time I hear of Linux as a safe bet. Not possessing any real data Ican't disagree here, but it sounds a bit depressing. Linux is more a GET (good enough technology) - take one average free operating system - could be anything, FreeBSD would have been just as valid; market to the hilt with some cool ad, which gets the name Linux out there in the no-techy world, the start pushing middleware and overpriced services - like the crack seller offering the first hit, IBM will hype, suck and strap you into their web of 'support services'. The problem with Sun, they couldn't market their way out of a paper bag; when am I going to start seeing Solaris or Java advertisements on television? when am I going to open up New Zealand Management magazine, and see a big A4 advertisement promoting Solaris and Solaris Enterprise Software kit? The problem with Sun, they're a company run by engineers; the last company who did that, Digital, is no longer with us. Some times it actually pays to hire some hype merchants and have a marketing department that does actually more than crap 'mock ads', gifs pushed out by double click, and gimics of 'free server for 60 days'. Matty ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Artem Kachitchkine wrote: I'm not talking servers but desktop clients. This means that they most likely for most of the time end up with big vendors such as Dell, IBM, Fujitsu Siemens, HP and so on. If you look closer up till recenty ALL of those business boxes came with the latest Intel chipset and CPU. 95% still do as it seems no one dares to put AMD in business PCs at a large scale. Working for the infrastructure department of a german university we also go through this once in a while. OS hardware support for this latest dies is always given for Windows as but looking at the UNIX side it gets much harder and Linux distros and developers to a pretty good job there. Even FreeBSD and the others are behind so no wonder that the small but very enthusiastic OpenSolaris community cannot really keep up coding for new chipsets and on-board devices. Even if they could I doubt such customers would go for it as Linux is just more hip and decision makers for sure don't get grilled for picking it. Maybe those people would even consider OpenSolaris not ready for business. Most of this paragraph was building up to a valid point, but the ending kind of ruined it for me :) You talk about business needs, but suddenly all that doesn't matter since Linux is hipper anyway. Is that what decision makers are paid for these days? And I've heard the you can't go wrong with IBM mantra, but it's the first time I hear of Linux as a safe bet. Not possessing any real data I can't disagree here, but it sounds a bit depressing. While I agree this is true today, I believe Solaris will win in the long run. What it has now, that Linux doesn't have, is a stable ABI. More commercial software will be ported due to this fact. It appears in a reasonable amount of time Solaris will have most of the gnu software running. Paul ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Wednesday 31 May 2006 06:38 pm, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: One assumes that when Sun is solely backing GNOME, that there is no 'officiallly supported' KDE for Solaris - all very nice to have a 'community working on it' but companies like the warm fuzzy feeling knowing that there are people they can ring up and abuse when things go wrong. I don't get it. How would someone on Linux have a real company support KDE? Presumably the company is question will be running on Linux, using KDE. Who will they ring up? Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? why not just buy out Trolltech, release Qt under CDDL? Sun offers you the ability to replace your desktop with anything you like. If you don't like GNOME, use another, such as KDE. That's what I do. I can't answer why Sun doesn't buy out Trolltech, because I don't know. I see no reason they should though. Why does that matter to you? -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 6/1/06, Alan DuBoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 31 May 2006 06:38 pm, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: One assumes that when Sun is solely backing GNOME, that there is no 'officiallly supported' KDE for Solaris - all very nice to have a 'community working on it' but companies like the warm fuzzy feeling knowing that there are people they can ring up and abuse when things go wrong.I don't get it. How would someone on Linux have a real company support KDE?Presumably the company is question will be running on Linux, using KDE. Who will they ring up?RHEL ships with GNOME and KDE - one assumes that Red Hat supports both, in way of technical support, and depending on the level of support, provide fixes for bugs and security issues as well. Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? why not just buy out Trolltech, release Qt under CDDL? Sun offers you the ability to replace your desktop with anything you like. Ifyou don't like GNOME, use another, such as KDE. That's what I do.What I mean is you purchase a copy of Solaris x86, KDE is sitting right there, and you can ring up and get technical support ranging from 'how do I setup this printer to this is a bug, fix it. I can't answer why Sun doesn't buy out Trolltech, because I don't know. I see no reason they should though. Why does that matter to you?Because KDE is a wonderfully integrated desktop with great software such as Kopete, Amarok, KOffice etc. etc. Need I say, its the eXPerience of KDE, the fact that everything works nicely together. Matty ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On May 31, 2006, at 3:38 PM, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: One assumes that when Sun is solely backing GNOME, that there is no 'officiallly supported' KDE for Solaris - all very nice to have a 'community working on it' but companies like the warm fuzzy feeling knowing that there are people they can ring up and abuse when things go wrong. Sun has the resources it has, and they are allocated how they are. With all of the issues you have stated you encountered with Solaris as a desktop OS, don't you think they should be focusing on getting *one* thing working before spreading their limited resources thin? Yikes, you want the world, and you want it NOW! Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? why not just buy out Trolltech, release Qt under CDDL? Is your solution to everything Sun buying out/paying off *insert random company here with questionable value to Sun*? David ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 6/1/06, David J. Orman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 31, 2006, at 3:38 PM, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: One assumes that when Sun is solely backing GNOME, that there is no 'officiallly supported' KDE for Solaris - all very nice to have a 'community working on it' but companies like the warm fuzzy feeling knowing that there are people they can ring up and abuse when things go wrong.Sun has the resources it has, and they are allocated how they are.With all of the issues you have stated you encountered with Solaris as a desktop OS, don't you think they should be focusing on getting*one* thing working before spreading their limited resources thin?Yikes, you want the world, and you want it NOW!So, what is it? is Solaris a desktop or a server operating system? come on, admit it, you're just burning to say, Matty, its a server OS! Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? why not just buy out Trolltech, release Qt under CDDL?Is your solution to everything Sun buying out/paying off *insertrandom company here with questionable value to Sun*?Lets see; on one had you have a bag of half baked rubbish, collated together, and called GNOME every 6 months OR you have on the other hand, a desktop where all the applications have been developed to work together in an integrated fashioned, called KDE. Sun has limited resources, is it wise to invest so much time and money into a desktop (GNOME) that requires so much TLC when the better option would have been to choose KDE which is already 'there' interms of desktop usability, integration, well written documentation, good GUI based development tools etc. etc. But hey, you keep drinking the GNOME koolaid, one day GNOME just might actually achieve something besides being a 'me too' desktop.Matty ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Trolltech Hey, that's not a bad name ;) -Artem. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On May 31, 2006, at 5:50 PM, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: So, what is it? is Solaris a desktop or a server operating system? come on, admit it, you're just burning to say, Matty, its a server OS! Don't make the mistake again of putting words in my mouth. Solaris is both, and it is improving quite nicely in both areas. I'd say the desktop part is developer oriented right now, or administrator oriented, not normal people oriented. This is improving however. The server part is no different, however. Most linux distros are easier to administrate for somebody who hasn't spent time in UNIX before. That doesn't make them technically better, but they are (generally) more usable from a newbie's perspective. Again, Solaris (OSOL) is improving in this area. So, both. Don't attempt a career as a psychologist. Lets see; on one had you have a bag of half baked rubbish, collated together, and called GNOME every 6 months OR you have on the other hand, a desktop where all the applications have been developed to work together in an integrated fashioned, called KDE. That is your opinion. You are entitled to it, and you are of course welcome to express it. I would, however, suggest you express it with civility, something you seem to have not learned yet. Sun has limited resources, is it wise to invest so much time and money into a desktop (GNOME) that requires so much TLC when the better option would have been to choose KDE which is already 'there' interms of desktop usability, integration, well written documentation, good GUI based development tools etc. etc. Funny, Ubuntu doesn't seem to be having a problem being usable. Last I checked, Ubuntu was Gnome. I believe RH's default is Gnome 2.8, and the large majority of people using RH use Gnome. Between those two distros, you've got a heck of a lot of gnome in the desktop- unix space. KDE has a place too (Suse), but it's quite obvious Gnome isn't the pile of garbage you allude to. But hey, you keep drinking the GNOME koolaid, one day GNOME just might actually achieve something besides being a 'me too' desktop. What is that supposed to mean? Sorry, I'm not caught up with the pre- teen lingo. As for the second part, I think Gnome has already done that, seeing as it's one of the most widely deployed desktop environment in the unix space. David PS - I personally prefer KDE myself, that doesn't mean I'm going to run around bashing projects WITH NO BASIS like you are. PLEASE support your statements from now on, better yet - don't make them. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 6/1/06, Artem Kachitchkine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TrolltechHey, that's not a bad name ;)Well, it wasn't started by me, my company would have been, Bitter and Twisted Technology Limited.Matty ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 6/1/06, Kaiwai Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/1/06, David J. Orman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 31, 2006, at 3:38 PM, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: One assumes that when Sun is solely backing GNOME, that there is no 'officiallly supported' KDE for Solaris - all very nice to have a 'community working on it' but companies like the warm fuzzy feeling knowing that there are people they can ring up and abuse when things go wrong. Sun has the resources it has, and they are allocated how they are. With all of the issues you have stated you encountered with Solaris as a desktop OS, don't you think they should be focusing on getting *one* thing working before spreading their limited resources thin? Yikes, you want the world, and you want it NOW! So, what is it? is Solaris a desktop or a server operating system? come on, admit it, you're just burning to say, Matty, its a server OS! opensolaris is less than a year old, solaris is a server os and people are working to make it desktop friendly, even in this short time there was a huge improvement in the area, solaris now has wireless drivers and runs well on laptops, Gnome is in the process of being updated to the latest version, things like hal are being ported to solaris; Rome wasnt built in a day Which brings up the other question - why on gods green earth did SUN go with GNOME? why not just buy out Trolltech, release Qt under CDDL? Is your solution to everything Sun buying out/paying off *insert random company here with questionable value to Sun*? Lets see; on one had you have a bag of half baked rubbish, collated together, and called GNOME every 6 months OR you have on the other hand, a desktop where all the applications have been developed to work together in an integrated fashioned, called KDE. it's funny, the top three linux players (redhat, suse and ubuntu imho) seem to disagree and are strongly backing gnome, have you ever tried ubuntu? it makes a great desktop and it looks really polished Sun has limited resources, is it wise to invest so much time and money into a desktop (GNOME) that requires so much TLC when the better option would have been to choose KDE which is already 'there' interms of desktop usability, integration, well written documentation, good GUI based development tools etc. etc. I'm getting really tired of this, it's better for YOU, what makes you think the rest of the world think alike? all i've heard you say during the last few days is sun should do this or buy that do you realize that this is an opensolaris mainling list and sun is just one more player in the community? But hey, you keep drinking the GNOME koolaid, one day GNOME just might actually achieve something besides being a 'me too' desktop. you're more than free not to use it, i told you this once before and i will repeat it, if you think you can do a better job start your own opensolaris distribution, ship KDE and whatever else you want, if you're right and people would rather kde over gnome, you might even make some cash from it. nacho ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On 6/1/06, David J. Orman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 31, 2006, at 5:50 PM, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: So, what is it? is Solaris a desktop or a server operating system? come on, admit it, you're just burning to say, Matty, its a server OS!Don't make the mistake again of putting words in my mouth. Solaris isboth, and it is improving quite nicely in both areas. I'd say thedesktop part is developer oriented right now, or administrator oriented, not normal people oriented. This is improving however.The server part is no different, however. Most linux distros areeasier to administrate for somebody who hasn't spent time in UNIX before. That doesn't make them technically better, but they are(generally) more usable from a newbie's perspective. Again, Solaris(OSOL) is improving in this area. So, both. Don't attempt a career asa psychologist. But the thing is, my requirements are *very* simple; if KDE 3.5.2 worked, along with Amarok, and the performance of the Solaris xorg was 'snappy' rather than the current sloppy; I'd be a very happy man. Lets see; on one had you have a bag of half baked rubbish, collated together, and called GNOME every 6 months OR you have on the other hand, a desktop where all the applications have been developed to work together in an integrated fashioned, called KDE. That is your opinion. You are entitled to it, and you are of coursewelcome to express it. I would, however, suggest you express it withcivility, something you seem to have not learned yet.How so? I tried to get something moving in GNOME a while back - what did I get 'thats someone elses responsibility' in respects to getting a tool up and running to make administration a Linux machine a little easier. Sun has limited resources, is it wise to invest so much time and money into a desktop (GNOME) that requires so much TLC when the better option would have been to choose KDE which is already 'there' interms of desktop usability, integration, well written documentation, good GUI based development tools etc. etc.Funny, Ubuntu doesn't seem to be having a problem being usable. Last I checked, Ubuntu was Gnome. I believe RH's default is Gnome2.8, and the large majority of people using RH use Gnome. Betweenthose two distros, you've got a heck of a lot of gnome in the desktop-unix space. KDE has a place too (Suse), but it's quite obvious Gnome isn't the pile of garbage you allude to.Look at Rhythmbox; compare Rhythmbox to Amarok - I can sync my iPod, listen to music, create play lists etc. etc. all from the same application. But hey, you keep drinking the GNOME koolaid, one day GNOME just might actually achieve something besides being a 'me too' desktop. What is that supposed to mean? Sorry, I'm not caught up with the pre-teen lingo. As for the second part, I think Gnome has already donethat, seeing as it's one of the most widely deployed desktopenvironment in the unix space. KDE still sits at around 60%. From what it appears; the overseas marketshare is alot higher. DavidPS - I personally prefer KDE myself, that doesn't mean I'm going torun around bashing projects WITH NO BASIS like you are. PLEASEsupport your statements from now on, better yet - don't make them. Look at the applications on KDE; they speak for themselves! maybe my writing ability at this time of the afternoon is rather crap, but setup two machines, and compare; compare the usability and integration of KOffice compared to OpenOffice.org; compare the ease of use of KDE PIM with Evolution. Compare the feature richness of Amarok compared to Rhythmbox.Matty ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: ... So, what is it? is Solaris a desktop or a server operating system? come on, admit it, you're just burning to say, Matty, its a server OS! I don't understand why you are under the impression that Sun can't have an OS that runs just fine on a desktop and also runs just fine on a server. Yes, there are definite gaps in the desktop... but amazingly enough these are being dealt with through projects and sub-communities: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/device_drivers/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/communities/kde http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/games/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/immigrants/ Are you contributing to any of these? ... Lets see; on one had you have a bag of half baked rubbish, collated together, and called GNOME every 6 months OR you have on the other hand, a desktop where all the applications have been developed to work together in an integrated fashioned, called KDE. Sun has limited resources, is it wise to invest so much time and money into a desktop (GNOME) that requires so much TLC when the better option would have been to choose KDE which is already 'there' interms of desktop usability, integration, well written documentation, good GUI based development tools etc. etc. You would probably be surprised to find out that there is actually a solid, well-reasoned and technical basis for Sun's decision to use gnome rather than kde. I know this has been hashed over time and time again in various newsgroups and mailing lists. Of course, you probably wouldn't be interested to read answer #23 in this document: http://www.sun.com/software/star/gnome/faq/generalfaq.xml James C. McPherson -- Solaris Datapath Engineering Data Management Group Sun Microsystems ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun lost one of it's biggest and oldest x86 customer
On Wednesday 31 May 2006 08:50 pm, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: So, what is it? is Solaris a desktop or a server operating system? come on, admit it, you're just burning to say, Matty, its a server OS! No, most folks at this point are just burning to ask, what the [EMAIL PROTECTED] does this have to do with OpenSolaris?. Let's try to stick to discussions based on OpenSolaris. This is the ON consolidation at this point. Thanks, -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
