Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Curtis]

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:33 PM, Tom Fifield  wrote:
> On 03/08/16 03:44, Joshua Harlow wrote:
>>
>> Just a general pet-peeve of mine, but can we not have #rdo be the
>> tripleo user support channel, but say push people more toward #tripleo
>> or #tripleo-users or #openstack instead. I'd rather not have #rdo be the
>> way users get tripleo support, because at that point we might as well
>> call tripleo a redhat product and just move the repos to somewhere
>> inside redhat.
>
>
> To comment only generally on the support issue, in redhat's defense they
> (hat tip Steve Gordon, Rich Bowen and others I've likely forgot) are doing a
> good job contributing to Ask.OpenStack.org, including in areas outside of
> RDO.
>

I gave ask.o.o a shot. :) 12 views on my question, no answers.

Unfortunately, like it or not, tripleo, IMHO, is a single vendor
project at this point and it's pretty difficult for end users like
myself to find some support. I've always been able to pop into an IRC
channel and ask a question and normally get tons of help, tripleo
seems a little different in that regard at this time. Perhaps it's
just me.

Thanks,
Curtis.

>
>
>> -Josh
>>
>> Dan Sneddon wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking for myself and the other TripleO developers at Red Hat, we do
>>> try our best to answer user questions in #rdo. You will also find some
>>> production users hanging out there. The best times to ask questions are
>>> during East Coast business hours, or during business hours of GMT+1
>>> (we have a large development office in Brno, CZ with engineers that
>>> work on TripleO). There is also an RDO-specific mailing list available
>>> here:https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list
>>
>>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Fegan, Joe]

I hear you, Matt. TripleO is great, and v useful for what it is. But I agree 
that in our (been-there-done-that) experience, it was never intended to be a 
production-ready environment - and it isn’t.


Ø  I like the idea of OOO

I do too - we all do! But in a production environment it’s currently (imho) too 
difficult & too volatile, and it’s hard to see how that can be fixed without a 
fundamental shake up.


Ø  It's amazing how many times i've seen people try to reinvent this wheel, and 
how many times they've outright ignored the lessons of those who went before.

Yep, I hear ya. Things like installing the node with an operating system have 
already been done 9,000 times. Why reinvent Cobbler, when the real Cobbler 
already does that? Or Crowbar, or whatever? Makes no sense.

If you have ideas let me know directly (anyone!). I’m right in the middle of 
HPE’s OpenStack install/upgrade work and would really like to hear where you 
want us to go.

Thanks,
Joe.



From: Silence Dogood [mailto:m...@nycresistor.com]
Sent: 03 August 2016 16:09
To: Fegan, Joe <joe.fe...@hpe.com>
Cc: OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?


the v1 helion product was a joke for deployment at scale.  I still don't know 
whose hair brained idea it was to use OOO there and then. but it was hair 
brained at best.  From my perspective the biggest issue with helion, was insane 
architecture decisions like that one being made with no adherence to the 
constraints of reality.

I recall at around early 2015 or so, at an operators meetup someone asking if 
anyone was using OOO and the response was a room full of laughter.  And yet by 
this point helion had already decided to proceed with it, despite their own 
people telling them it would take years to make usable.



I like the idea of OOO but it takes time to harden that sort of deployment 
scenario.  And trying to build a generic tool to hit hardware in the wild is an 
exercise in futility, to a point.  Crowbar actually kind of made sense in so 
far as it was designed to let you write the connector bits you'd need to write. 
 I figure over time OOO will be forced into that sort of pattern as every 
automated deployment framework has been for the past 20 years or so.  It's 
amazing how many times i've seen people try to reinvent this wheel, and how 
many times they've outright ignored the lessons of those who went before.

-Matt

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Fegan, Joe 
<joe.fe...@hpe.com<mailto:joe.fe...@hpe.com>> wrote:
Hi folks,

I agree. HP(E) were major contributors to TripleO in the early days, and our V1 
Helion product was based on it. But, as Dan says, we wrote a new OpenStack 
installer from scratch for V2+. Mostly in Ansible. The sources are up on GitHub 
with an Apache2 license - feel free to take and use them. We call it HLM 
(Helion Lifecycle Manager) but you can call it whatever you want ;)

Our production experience and customer feedback with V1, TripleO were and are … 
“eventful”. And hard to debug / restart / continue. That was the main 
motivation for a newer and better install/upgrade mechanism. Of course I’m 
biased lol ;) The group working on it in HPE are all ex-public cloud and/or HPC 
production background, so we hope that we always have the real user perspective 
in mind.

Thanks,
Joe.



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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Kevin Bringard (kevinbri)]

>I like the idea of OOO but it takes time to harden that sort of deployment 
>scenario.  And trying to build a generic tool to hit hardware in the wild is 
>an exercise in futility, to a point.  
>Crowbar actually kind of made sense in so far as it was designed
> to let you write the connector bits you'd need to write.  I figure over time 
> OOO will be forced into that sort of pattern as every automated deployment 
> framework has been for the past 20 years or so.  It's amazing how many times 
> i've seen people try to reinvent
> this wheel, and how many times they've outright ignored the lessons of those 
> who went before.

When I worked for a large telecom doing huge OpenStack deploys this was exactly 
the problem we were running into. No two orders came with the hardware info in 
the same format, and when you're deploying hundreds of nodes a month just 
bootstrapping everything becomes a nightmare. We came up with an idea we called 
"Open Manifest" (we even considered trying to make it an extension of the Open 
Compute standards). It is effectively a standard BOM format in JSON. The idea 
being, with enough buying power, we could get hardware makers on board with 
providing information in a standard ingestible format which would make this 
exact problem much easier to deal with. Far less work to be done on the 
connector bits (clamps I think they were called in crowbar nomenclature), 
because you would just ingest a standard JSON blob into your bootstrapping 
process.

I submitted a talk on it a few years back (I think at the Essex summit), but 
folks didn't seem interested at the time. If it's something people might be 
interested in now I can probably dig up the notes and work we'd done on it.


-- Kevin
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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Silence Dogood]

the v1 helion product was a joke for deployment at scale.  I still don't
know whose hair brained idea it was to use OOO there and then. but it was
hair brained at best.  From my perspective the biggest issue with helion,
was insane architecture decisions like that one being made with no
adherence to the constraints of reality.

I recall at around early 2015 or so, at an operators meetup someone asking
if anyone was using OOO and the response was a room full of laughter.  And
yet by this point helion had already decided to proceed with it, despite
their own people telling them it would take years to make usable.



I like the idea of OOO but it takes time to harden that sort of deployment
scenario.  And trying to build a generic tool to hit hardware in the wild
is an exercise in futility, to a point.  Crowbar actually kind of made
sense in so far as it was designed to let you write the connector bits
you'd need to write.  I figure over time OOO will be forced into that sort
of pattern as every automated deployment framework has been for the past 20
years or so.  It's amazing how many times i've seen people try to reinvent
this wheel, and how many times they've outright ignored the lessons of
those who went before.

-Matt

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Fegan, Joe  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> I agree. HP(E) were major contributors to TripleO in the early days, and
> our V1 Helion product was based on it. But, as Dan says, we wrote a new
> OpenStack installer from scratch for V2+. Mostly in Ansible. The sources
> are up on GitHub with an Apache2 license - feel free to take and use them.
> We call it HLM (Helion Lifecycle Manager) but you can call it whatever you
> want ;)
>
>
>
> Our production experience and customer feedback with V1, TripleO were and
> are … “eventful”. And hard to debug / restart / continue. That was the main
> motivation for a newer and better install/upgrade mechanism. Of course I’m
> biased lol ;) The group working on it in HPE are all ex-public cloud and/or
> HPC production background, so we hope that we always have the real user
> perspective in mind.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Fegan, Joe]

Hi folks,

I agree. HP(E) were major contributors to TripleO in the early days, and our V1 
Helion product was based on it. But, as Dan says, we wrote a new OpenStack 
installer from scratch for V2+. Mostly in Ansible. The sources are up on GitHub 
with an Apache2 license - feel free to take and use them. We call it HLM 
(Helion Lifecycle Manager) but you can call it whatever you want ;)

Our production experience and customer feedback with V1, TripleO were and are 
... "eventful". And hard to debug / restart / continue. That was the main 
motivation for a newer and better install/upgrade mechanism. Of course I'm 
biased lol ;) The group working on it in HPE are all ex-public cloud and/or HPC 
production background, so we hope that we always have the real user perspective 
in mind.

Thanks,
Joe.


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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Tom Fifield]

On 03/08/16 03:44, Joshua Harlow wrote:

Just a general pet-peeve of mine, but can we not have #rdo be the
tripleo user support channel, but say push people more toward #tripleo
or #tripleo-users or #openstack instead. I'd rather not have #rdo be the
way users get tripleo support, because at that point we might as well
call tripleo a redhat product and just move the repos to somewhere
inside redhat.


To comment only generally on the support issue, in redhat's defense they 
(hat tip Steve Gordon, Rich Bowen and others I've likely forgot) are 
doing a good job contributing to Ask.OpenStack.org, including in areas 
outside of RDO.




-Josh

Dan Sneddon wrote:

Speaking for myself and the other TripleO developers at Red Hat, we do
try our best to answer user questions in #rdo. You will also find some
production users hanging out there. The best times to ask questions are
during East Coast business hours, or during business hours of GMT+1
(we have a large development office in Brno, CZ with engineers that
work on TripleO). There is also an RDO-specific mailing list available
here:https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list


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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Joshua Harlow]

Just a general pet-peeve of mine, but can we not have #rdo be the 
tripleo user support channel, but say push people more toward #tripleo 
or #tripleo-users or #openstack instead. I'd rather not have #rdo be the 
way users get tripleo support, because at that point we might as well 
call tripleo a redhat product and just move the repos to somewhere 
inside redhat.


-Josh

Dan Sneddon wrote:

Speaking for myself and the other TripleO developers at Red Hat, we do
try our best to answer user questions in #rdo. You will also find some
production users hanging out there. The best times to ask questions are
during East Coast business hours, or during business hours of GMT+1
(we have a large development office in Brno, CZ with engineers that
work on TripleO). There is also an RDO-specific mailing list available
here:https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list


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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Curtis]

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Dan Sneddon  wrote:
> On 08/02/2016 09:57 AM, Curtis wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm just curious who, if anyone, is using TripleO in production?
>>
>> I'm having a hard time finding anywhere to ask end-user type
>> questions. #tripleo irc seems to be just a dev channel. Not sure if
>> there is anywhere for end users to ask questions. A quick look at
>> stackalytics shows it's mostly RedHat contributions, though again, it
>> was a quick look.
>>
>> If there were other users it would be cool to perhaps try to have a
>> session on it at the upcoming ops midcycle.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Curtis.
>>
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>>
>
> Nearly every commercial customer of Red Hat OpenStack Platform (OSP)
> since version 7 (version 9 is coming out imminently) are using TripleO
> in production, since the installer is TripleO. That's hundreds of
> production installations, some of them very large scale. The exact same
> source code is used for RDO and OSP. HP used to use TripleO, but I
> don't think they have contributed to TripleO since they updated Helion
> with a proprietary installer.

Right, yeah, am very aware of RedHat's use of TripleO.

>
> Speaking for myself and the other TripleO developers at Red Hat, we do
> try our best to answer user questions in #rdo. You will also find some
> production users hanging out there. The best times to ask questions are
> during East Coast business hours, or during business hours of GMT +1
> (we have a large development office in Brno, CZ with engineers that
> work on TripleO). There is also an RDO-specific mailing list available
> here: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list

Cool, thanks. I don't think I've tried asking the RDO community
questions about TripleO. I will check it out.

Thanks,
Curtis.

>
> --
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> dsned...@redhat.com |  redhat.com/openstack
> 650.254.4025|  dsneddon:irc   @dxs:twitter
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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Dan Sneddon]

On 08/02/2016 09:57 AM, Curtis wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm just curious who, if anyone, is using TripleO in production?
> 
> I'm having a hard time finding anywhere to ask end-user type
> questions. #tripleo irc seems to be just a dev channel. Not sure if
> there is anywhere for end users to ask questions. A quick look at
> stackalytics shows it's mostly RedHat contributions, though again, it
> was a quick look.
> 
> If there were other users it would be cool to perhaps try to have a
> session on it at the upcoming ops midcycle.
> 
> Thanks,
> Curtis.
> 
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> 

Nearly every commercial customer of Red Hat OpenStack Platform (OSP)
since version 7 (version 9 is coming out imminently) are using TripleO
in production, since the installer is TripleO. That's hundreds of
production installations, some of them very large scale. The exact same
source code is used for RDO and OSP. HP used to use TripleO, but I
don't think they have contributed to TripleO since they updated Helion
with a proprietary installer.

Speaking for myself and the other TripleO developers at Red Hat, we do
try our best to answer user questions in #rdo. You will also find some
production users hanging out there. The best times to ask questions are
during East Coast business hours, or during business hours of GMT +1
(we have a large development office in Brno, CZ with engineers that
work on TripleO). There is also an RDO-specific mailing list available
here: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rdo-list

-- 
Dan Sneddon |  Principal OpenStack Engineer
dsned...@redhat.com |  redhat.com/openstack
650.254.4025|  dsneddon:irc   @dxs:twitter

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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Pedro Sousa]

Hi,

I'm using it with CentOS. I've installed mitaka from CentOS Sig Repos and
followed Redhat Documentation:
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en/red-hat-openstack-platform/8/director-installation-and-usage/director-installation-and-usage

Let me know if you have more questions.

Regards


On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Curtis  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm just curious who, if anyone, is using TripleO in production?
>
> I'm having a hard time finding anywhere to ask end-user type
> questions. #tripleo irc seems to be just a dev channel. Not sure if
> there is anywhere for end users to ask questions. A quick look at
> stackalytics shows it's mostly RedHat contributions, though again, it
> was a quick look.
>
> If there were other users it would be cool to perhaps try to have a
> session on it at the upcoming ops midcycle.
>
> Thanks,
> Curtis.
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[John van Ommen]

The 1.x versions of Helion Open Stack used Triple O.

On Aug 2, 2016 9:59 AM, "Curtis"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm just curious who, if anyone, is using TripleO in production?
>
> I'm having a hard time finding anywhere to ask end-user type
> questions. #tripleo irc seems to be just a dev channel. Not sure if
> there is anywhere for end users to ask questions. A quick look at
> stackalytics shows it's mostly RedHat contributions, though again, it
> was a quick look.
>
> If there were other users it would be cool to perhaps try to have a
> session on it at the upcoming ops midcycle.
>
> Thanks,
> Curtis.
>
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[Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?

[Curtis]

Hi,

I'm just curious who, if anyone, is using TripleO in production?

I'm having a hard time finding anywhere to ask end-user type
questions. #tripleo irc seems to be just a dev channel. Not sure if
there is anywhere for end users to ask questions. A quick look at
stackalytics shows it's mostly RedHat contributions, though again, it
was a quick look.

If there were other users it would be cool to perhaps try to have a
session on it at the upcoming ops midcycle.

Thanks,
Curtis.

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