Re: [opensuse] Re: www.betterdesktop.org
+1 On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 19:09 -0400, Alexander Antoniades wrote: The participation link still doesn't answer where decisions regarding the future of OpenSuse are made and how people can influence their outcome. I realize there are probably private mailing lists and such where overall decisions on feature sets are made and goals are set, and they don't need the needless pestering of people who aren't actively involved in the project, but some insight into this process would go a long way. From my perspective exploring Linux over the past couple of years it has been this last mile of communication that has been downfall of the community-based distribution model. I realize that if I download the latest development builds, hang out on IRC, monitor the development mailings lists and such I'll have some idea on where OpenSuse is headed with new releases, even if I'm still not sure what I can do to change it. But if I'm someone who's just using 10.0 everyday, who files bug reports and answers questions in forums, I really don't have any idea on potential big changes until they are more or less done. This IMHO is the challenge for distributions is to actually build a true community and not be so top down/insular as to exclude anyone who's not completely involved in development. This is why people change distributions so much, is because major changes like spatial nautilus just show up in a new build and there's not much the average user can do to keep it from happening or even know it's coming. Thanks, Sander On 10/16/05, Christoph Thiel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Alexander Antoniades wrote: I do think that this is the problem with communication in many open source projects is that we think that signing up for a users mailing list will give us some insight and say in future releases, whereas it seems to be more of a first level support situation. Some of what this thread is talking about goes beyond offering patches and bug reports and more into the general direction of the project. For example please don't make OpenSuse yet-another-gtk-centric distribution isn't exactly a bug report/patch situation. How does someone who's not a developer or Novell employee get involved in the openness you discuss, and find out what's being planned for upcoming releases? There are many ways to get involved... I'd recommend you to read [1] first. Running the latests development version that's available on openSUSE.org would be another way to find out where the develment is happening. If you want to suggest new features or packages, the wishlists on the wiki would be the place to go... Regards Christoph [1] http://www.opensuse.org/How_to_participate - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: www.betterdesktop.org
On Monday 17 October 2005 00:09, Alexander Antoniades wrote: From my perspective exploring Linux over the past couple of years it has been this last mile of communication that has been downfall of the community-based distribution model. say what??? But if I'm someone who's just using 10.0 everyday, who files bug reports and answers questions in forums, I really don't have any idea on potential big changes until they are more or less done. But still considerably more than you'll get with other operating systems This IMHO is the challenge for distributions is to actually build a true community and not be so top down/insular as to exclude anyone who's not completely involved in development. And spend so much time asking for comments and trying to take them on board that nothing actually gets released? The Linux kernel community development model is the most relevant - it is run on the benevolent dictator model, and seems to work pretty well. Too many chiefs and not enough braves is bad, but too many braves and no chiefs is even worse. This is why people change distributions so much, is because major changes like spatial nautilus just show up in a new build and there's not much the average user can do to keep it from happening or even know it's coming. No, it's because many users are scared they'll miss some gee-whiz feature, so they go around various distros checking which has the most gee-whiz features rather than picking one and actually sticking with it to do some everyday work. -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: www.betterdesktop.org
On 10/16/05, Christoph Thiel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We had that kind of openness from day 0 - just go ahead, file a bugreport, attach a patch and discuss it with the developers. But be aware of the fact that we might not accept your patch - which has nothing to do with openness, but with the fact that the responsible developer / project manager will have the final say. Christoph, I do think that this is the problem with communication in many open source projects is that we think that signing up for a users mailing list will give us some insight and say in future releases, whereas it seems to be more of a first level support situation. Some of what this thread is talking about goes beyond offering patches and bug reports and more into the general direction of the project. For example please don't make OpenSuse yet-another-gtk-centric distribution isn't exactly a bug report/patch situation. How does someone who's not a developer or Novell employee get involved in the openness you discuss, and find out what's being planned for upcoming releases? Sander P.S. I'm glad to hear about the in improvements YaST you mentioned, as that is the one weakness I've found in so far. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: www.betterdesktop.org
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Alexander Antoniades wrote: I do think that this is the problem with communication in many open source projects is that we think that signing up for a users mailing list will give us some insight and say in future releases, whereas it seems to be more of a first level support situation. Some of what this thread is talking about goes beyond offering patches and bug reports and more into the general direction of the project. For example please don't make OpenSuse yet-another-gtk-centric distribution isn't exactly a bug report/patch situation. How does someone who's not a developer or Novell employee get involved in the openness you discuss, and find out what's being planned for upcoming releases? There are many ways to get involved... I'd recommend you to read [1] first. Running the latests development version that's available on openSUSE.org would be another way to find out where the develment is happening. If you want to suggest new features or packages, the wishlists on the wiki would be the place to go... Regards Christoph [1] http://www.opensuse.org/How_to_participate - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: www.betterdesktop.org
The participation link still doesn't answer where decisions regarding the future of OpenSuse are made and how people can influence their outcome. I realize there are probably private mailing lists and such where overall decisions on feature sets are made and goals are set, and they don't need the needless pestering of people who aren't actively involved in the project, but some insight into this process would go a long way. From my perspective exploring Linux over the past couple of years it has been this last mile of communication that has been downfall of the community-based distribution model. I realize that if I download the latest development builds, hang out on IRC, monitor the development mailings lists and such I'll have some idea on where OpenSuse is headed with new releases, even if I'm still not sure what I can do to change it. But if I'm someone who's just using 10.0 everyday, who files bug reports and answers questions in forums, I really don't have any idea on potential big changes until they are more or less done. This IMHO is the challenge for distributions is to actually build a true community and not be so top down/insular as to exclude anyone who's not completely involved in development. This is why people change distributions so much, is because major changes like spatial nautilus just show up in a new build and there's not much the average user can do to keep it from happening or even know it's coming. Thanks, Sander On 10/16/05, Christoph Thiel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Alexander Antoniades wrote: I do think that this is the problem with communication in many open source projects is that we think that signing up for a users mailing list will give us some insight and say in future releases, whereas it seems to be more of a first level support situation. Some of what this thread is talking about goes beyond offering patches and bug reports and more into the general direction of the project. For example please don't make OpenSuse yet-another-gtk-centric distribution isn't exactly a bug report/patch situation. How does someone who's not a developer or Novell employee get involved in the openness you discuss, and find out what's being planned for upcoming releases? There are many ways to get involved... I'd recommend you to read [1] first. Running the latests development version that's available on openSUSE.org would be another way to find out where the develment is happening. If you want to suggest new features or packages, the wishlists on the wiki would be the place to go... Regards Christoph [1] http://www.opensuse.org/How_to_participate - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
