Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
Hello! On 6/2/07, Eberhard Roloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] rsnapshot, doing backups to usb-drive(s)? ;-) [...] ===This is how it works:= [...] --you will have a full week of daily backups that you can restore from, either on a per file basis or as a whole. --But you only need to accomodate your data size plus slightly more, because the full backup any day is done by using symlinks, so you profit from the fact, that a very lare percentage of your data will most likely be identical from a given day to the next. That is just great! SUSE contains rsnapshot (I just had to go and install it immediately and start learning). Now if the great SUSE developers would have just more time and maybe implement a YaST GUI for that, you could suddenly have a SUSE Time Machine! Maybe even before OS X will have it. (Ok, yes, the OS X GUI for it is ... how should I put it... lot's of eye candy. You could get the job done with less of that I'm sure :-) -- HG. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-06-02 at 12:04 +0200, Eberhard Roloff wrote: However, for purposes of simplicity, lets assume that your son has data with a volume of 200GB (or less), that needs to be backed up regularly. If I had to backup all and every file on his computer, I should have 100 Tb of usb drives... You might have ignored the essence of rsnapshot and similar solutions. The beauty of these solutions is that backups are done by using symlinks. Lets see how this basically works and what you get as a result: ===This is how it works:= (assuming that you are doing a simple daily backup. In reality, you most probably will want to do weekly and monthly backups, as well) : day1: 200GB are backed up to the usb drive External usb hard drives are very convenient, but they are not reliable, unfortunately. They are exposed to handling, for instance, and a HD should not be even moved while spinning. Then, the chipsets used by those boxes are cheap and incomplete, they don't have the necessary functions to use SMART and thus asses the drive health. It is a very convenient way of adding large storage capacity which you can then move out to a cupboard or safe, but in fact they can and do die on you at the most unexpected moment. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGYUUjtTMYHG2NR9URAn03AJ9rTHXis5Qg1d18NZ/Yi1UzZsGPegCdEQTY LUafQi5HdBw2eTQwdATuhhM= =xPbD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
Eberhard Roloff wrote: In fact that means that your usb drive will only need to accomodate 200GB+ a little more. Ex 300GB will most likely do for a VERY long time. I think you did miss the point. I can dl a cd in 10 minutes and a dvd in four hours. I have a collection of 1000+ films. I have each month 4cd and 1 dvd of linux alpha distro (and often more) all this is filling my drive. I have also (right now) 4 hours of dv video (50Gb) and the 3 dvd O made from it (30Bg with the associated files I need to keep for editing purpose) all this is very important right now but will have nearly no interest in some days (only the dvd resulting will have meaning) it's impossible to backup all this, I already have problems keeping them one month :-) much data have an importance for a very small time. there is no other solution than selecting the part to backup manually... I know of database systems with several gigabytes of data, with small changes (think at wikipedia) I only want to say that no backup strategy is univesal, anybody must find one that suits his needs. yours or an other :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
Carlos E. R. wrote: The Saturday 2007-06-02 at 12:04 +0200, Eberhard Roloff wrote: However, for purposes of simplicity, lets assume that your son has data with a volume of 200GB (or less), that needs to be backed up regularly. If I had to backup all and every file on his computer, I should have 100 Tb of usb drives... You might have ignored the essence of rsnapshot and similar solutions. The beauty of these solutions is that backups are done by using symlinks. Lets see how this basically works and what you get as a result: ===This is how it works:= (assuming that you are doing a simple daily backup. In reality, you most probably will want to do weekly and monthly backups, as well) : day1: 200GB are backed up to the usb drive External usb hard drives are very convenient, but they are not reliable, unfortunately. They are exposed to handling, for instance, and a HD should not be even moved while spinning. Then, the chipsets used by those boxes are cheap and incomplete, they don't have the necessary functions to use SMART and thus asses the drive health. It is a very convenient way of adding large storage capacity which you can then move out to a cupboard or safe, but in fact they can and do die on you at the most unexpected moment. I understand Google did a paper on disk drives. They found that SMART was not a very good predictor in determining drive health. I think it was a three year study on their drive failures at Google. It was mentioned on a podcast Security Now http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm episode #81 -- Joseph Loo [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
jdd wrote: Eberhard Roloff wrote: In fact that means that your usb drive will only need to accomodate 200GB+ a little more. Ex 300GB will most likely do for a VERY long time. I think you did miss the point. I can dl a cd in 10 minutes and a dvd in four hours. I have a collection of 1000+ films. I have each month 4cd and 1 dvd of linux alpha distro (and often more) all this is filling my drive. I have also (right now) 4 hours of dv video (50Gb) and the 3 dvd O made from it (30Bg with the associated files I need to keep for editing purpose) all this is very important right now but will have nearly no interest in some days (only the dvd resulting will have meaning) it's impossible to backup all this, I already have problems keeping them one month :-) much data have an importance for a very small time. there is no other solution than selecting the part to backup manually... I know of database systems with several gigabytes of data, with small changes (think at wikipedia) I only want to say that no backup strategy is univesal, anybody must find one that suits his needs. yours or an other :-) jdd Have you thought of doing incremental backups? These are backups where only the changed files are backedup. In many of the Enterprise setups, they do a full backup once a week. Then on a daily basis they do incremental backups. This reduce the amount of data loss to a day. You might want to consider doing full backups once a month and weekly incremental. -- Joseph Loo [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-06-02 at 05:13 -0700, Joseph Loo wrote: I understand Google did a paper on disk drives. They found that SMART was not a very good predictor in determining drive health. I think it was a three year study on their drive failures at Google. I know, I read it. It doesn't predict all failures, but it does signal some of them, and can do some diagnostics, including a surface test. If the usb boxes' chipsets do not even support smart, testing the drives becomes more difficult. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGYZCftTMYHG2NR9URAk9sAJwOYEEmmRwi3NdSX+Q4ELWI2Dx3uQCeL2ff CPQ4bOnM/mWXnlkIESl9TX4= =D8pd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-06-02 at 05:18 -0700, Joseph Loo wrote: Have you thought of doing incremental backups? These are backups where only the changed files are backedup. In many of the Enterprise setups, they do a full backup once a week. Then on a daily basis they do incremental backups. This reduce the amount of data loss to a day. You might want to consider doing full backups once a month and weekly incremental. In his case, it is much more efficient to do manual backups, choosing exactly what to copy and when. They are quite large files. Even if you only change the name of a video file sized one gigabyte, the incremental backup program will save a full copy of that file, for instance. The next day he edits the tittles of an scene, and bang, it would save the whole file again. If the video editing takes, say, a week, he may backup the huge temporary files to another internal disk, temporarily, and then save the final product to the final media and/or permanent backup. A typical automated backup would save useless terabytes of data. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGYZJ5tTMYHG2NR9URArM4AJ9eQikdC0ArOCZLtKl9po/BRz2aowCeOi4v ao+hbyBJBctXd7r7obGbnh8= =AEzt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
Carlos E. R. wrote: They are quite large files. Even if you only change the name of a video file sized one gigabyte, the incremental backup program will save a full copy of that file, for instance. The next day he edits the tittles of an scene, and bang, it would save the whole file again. If the video editing takes, say, a week, he may backup the huge temporary files to another internal disk, temporarily, and then save the final product to the final media and/or permanent backup. A typical automated backup would save useless terabytes of data. two things: original dv video is si hudge backing it up on usual media is impossible (12Gb one hour and I have 6 in work!), the best backup there is an other dv tape if the video is important enough. the video application uses temporary files of the same size of the final dvd (4.5 Gb a dvd, 9 Gb for the hole files). I made 4 dvd the same week, and need to keep the files as long as I may edit the result. 4 x 9 Gb more of course, no incremental is meaningfull here. If I had money enough I would buy a raid 5 terabyte system, but it's not yet cheap enough (will come soon, I've seen a 1Tb (2x500Gb) usb drive for €300. but this is only temporary backup, once the final dvd is done I keep only the video_ts folder jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: backup for home users
Eberhard Roloff wrote: Yes I did. Sorry for this. no problem. One user one config :-) I wonder whether your type of usage, while being extremely impressive to me, fullfills what the subject backup for home users tries to promise. ;-)) I'm a completely home user (retired). My videos are for my daughters gigs (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8593837B6756B691) or my wife's theatre and I use two years old computers (two of them, one XP, One openSUSE), my 250Gb USB drive was only €120 - failed twice and was twice changed for a new one (3 years warrant). My 21 years old son bough it's one with summer work :-) I only want to say that no backup strategy is univesal, anybody must find one that suits his needs. yours or an other :-) I completely agree. And I never intended mine to be understood to work universally for anyone. It just does what I want and what I think I need. this is the key: know what you do and do what is needed :-)) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
