Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Andreas Hanke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about a pattern for console users instead? A pattern that includes software which is rarely used or unnecessary on desktops, but handy for the console. Some ideas for this pattern include: mc findutils-locate Surely useful on the desktop as well. Maybe, a subset of the beagle tools could be part of the console pattern. antiword vorbis-tools (for ogg123) lynx These days, we prefer w3m... You forgot to mention emacs-nox ;) -- Karl Eichwalder RD / Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH Key fingerprint = B2A3 AF2F CFC8 40B1 67EA 475A 5903 A21B 06EB 882E - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Marc Collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: that could be nice if somebody could post the pattern for gnome, kde... suse use and we could said what package is not really used Check the files in: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/suse/setup/descr/ Just look at i586.pat, e.g.: kde-10.2-15.i586.pat kde_basis-10.2-15.i586.pat ... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgpKwFjhMvSjY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Andreas Hanke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Andreas Jaeger schrieb: I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several patterns... What about a pattern for console users instead? A pattern that includes software which is rarely used or unnecessary on desktops, but handy for the console. Yes, this is an idea. I'll work on it the next days and take your list as first proposal, Thanks, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgpqy2cPoNFnu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Andreas Jaeger wrote: Check the files in: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/suse/setup/descr/ Just look at i586.pat, e.g.: kde-10.2-15.i586.pat kde_basis-10.2-15.i586.pat I'd love to have a yast-development pattern :) Lukas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Lukas Ocilka [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andreas Jaeger wrote: Check the files in: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/suse/setup/descr/ Just look at i586.pat, e.g.: kde-10.2-15.i586.pat kde_basis-10.2-15.i586.pat I'd love to have a yast-development pattern :) Feel free to create it yourself and add it in a private repository ;-) Or start proposing it here... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgp1pB01sLr29.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Hi, Andreas Jaeger schrieb: I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several patterns... What about a pattern for console users instead? A pattern that includes software which is rarely used or unnecessary on desktops, but handy for the console. Some ideas for this pattern include: mc findutils-locate antiword vorbis-tools (for ogg123) lynx xpdf-tools (for pdftotext, can be used as pdf reader) sox (for /usr/bin/play) cdrecord bsd-games This pattern should aim against feature-parity with the desktop on the console. Andreas Hanke - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Am Montag, 21. August 2006 20:17 schrieb Andreas Jaeger: [...] We currently have a base pattern that is an extended core. I'm appending the list below and would like you to send me a proposal - either as definition or as list of what you would consider such a CORE. The question is then also what to do with the packages that are currently in the basis but should not be in the new CORE. Required (must have packages): [...] autoyast2 autoyast2-installation autoyast2-utils Are these needed for automatic installation or only for creating an installation server? gnome-icon-theme Without GUI, why do we need this? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Dňa Št 24. August 2006 13:24 Marcel Hilzinger napísal: Am Montag, 21. August 2006 20:17 schrieb Andreas Jaeger: [...] We currently have a base pattern that is an extended core. I'm appending the list below and would like you to send me a proposal - either as definition or as list of what you would consider such a CORE. The question is then also what to do with the packages that are currently in the basis but should not be in the new CORE. Required (must have packages): [...] autoyast2 autoyast2-installation autoyast2-utils Are these needed for automatic installation or only for creating an installation server? autoyast2-installation is the installation-part, that's necessary for installation autoyast2 is a frontend to prepare an autoinstallation profile autoyast2-utils are helpers for creating automatic installation infrastructure. They might help you set up an customized instlalation server. Stano - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Andreas Jaeger wrote: This is only a proposal - I really just wrote it up in five minutes. Maybe it's entirely in appropriate. Maybe the selection is 1-2-3 step: Primary qualifier, secondary qualifier, plus add-ons (things you might want to do regardless of which type of system): Experienced User, Kernel development, I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several patterns... I haven't got the time to participate in this discussion right now, but I think it's very important. I'd really like to work out a detailed proposal and then submit that for debate. I still think that the user should be given the opportunity to define the role of the system using some predefined categories/roles, plus a number of auxilliary groups that aren't really tied to any role as such. I hope you guys haven't sorted it out by the time I'm back :-) /Per Jessen, Zürich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
* Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Aug 23. 2006 09:20]: I haven't got the time to participate in this discussion right now, but I think it's very important. I'd really like to work out a detailed proposal and then submit that for debate. I still think that the user should be given the opportunity to define the role of the system using some predefined categories/roles, plus a number of auxilliary groups that aren't really tied to any role as such. Thats very welcome and we look forward to your proposal. I hope you guys haven't sorted it out by the time I'm back :-) Given the 'speed' of the current discussion, I don't think so ;-) Klaus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Per Jessen wrote:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
This is only a proposal - I really just wrote it up in five minutes.
Maybe it's entirely in appropriate.
Maybe the selection is 1-2-3 step: Primary qualifier, secondary
qualifier, plus add-ons (things you might want to do regardless of
which type of system): Experienced User, Kernel development,
I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several
patterns...
I haven't got the time to participate in this discussion right now, but
I think it's very important. I'd really like to work out a detailed
proposal and then submit that for debate. I still think that the user
should be given the opportunity to define the role of the system using
some predefined categories/roles, plus a number of auxilliary groups
that aren't really tied to any role as such.
I hope you guys haven't sorted it out by the time I'm back :-)
/Per Jessen, Zürich
That is how I see the future of package management for non technical
users, and that is the reason to post skeleton of would be hardware
roles on:
http://en.opensuse.org/Patterns/Framework
I expected to see additions, changes, comments here and on wiki page.
The title Framework might be not really appropriate for list of
hardware roles alone, but that's a wiki, anyone can move it to more
appropriate named page and leave title Framework for more general topics
about patterns, like rules how to create them, what logic to follow by
package/subpattern inclusion etc.
Present discussion looks like we discuss selections that were renamed to
patterns with added ability to use whole selection as building element
for another selection.
Without defined computer roles that selection/pattern is build for, end
result will be:
- for end user similar to selection system, need for a lot of external
help and extra explanation what to install, starting with explanation of
basic terms like KDE, GNOME, X Window System (xorg) etc.
- for builders easier package management, as now it will be possible to
define macro package ie. pattern for inclusion in another
selection/pattern.
The word pattern suggests that the talk is about, for instance, usage
patterns (use cases) as base for software selection and that is what
every user new or old will understand easily. That means we should
define usage patterns, first, than fill the space with packages. Going
the other way around is possible for already known, often present usage
patterns like:
IBM_PC_(and_compatible):[Home | Personal_Use]:Basic {Internet, etc},
and it will actually produce fast results, that are needed too, but for
a long run without
Computer Usage Patterns [list | tree | classification | categorization]
there will be again a lot of overlapping and attempts to include too
much in every pattern just as it might be useful, and because there are
no general rules how to create pattern. BTW, that general rules would be
actual Pattern Framework.
Apropos name pattern:
Pattern concept allows to nest and join package selections, so there are
actually at least 4 different meanings:
- Pattern as a concept
- General Pattern: top level pattern, computer role
- Pattern as a software selection
- Subpattern: as a part of bigger block, predefined software selection
that might be complex and used as stand alone installation, but it can
be small complement to main selection.
I'm sure that naming has to be discussed too as proper naming will help
a lot communication as well as pattern definition language work, and
as a side effect, prevent conversion of new and good idea back to fresh
painted old stuff.
--
Regards,
Rajko.
-
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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Klaus Kaempf wrote: * Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Aug 23. 2006 09:20]: I haven't got the time to participate in this discussion right now, but I think it's very important. I'd really like to work out a detailed proposal and then submit that for debate. I still think that the user should be given the opportunity to define the role of the system using some predefined categories/roles, plus a number of auxilliary groups that aren't really tied to any role as such. Thats very welcome and we look forward to your proposal. I hope you guys haven't sorted it out by the time I'm back :-) Given the 'speed' of the current discussion, I don't think so ;-) Klaus Speed of current discussion can't be faster, as it is chance to organize software management in complete new way, so longer is better. -- Regards, Rajko. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Andreas Jaeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * KDE-BASIS * KDE-Devel * KDE-Edutainment * KDE-Games * KDE-Help * KDE-IMAGE * KDE-Internet * KDE-Multimedia * KDE-Office * KDE-System * KDE-Utilities What about kdesdk (Kbabel,etc)? Will it be part of KDE-Devel? Yes, that's what I would propose. The packages are not added all yet. That's what we did in the past. I'd rather vote to classify a translation tools as Office or Productivity stuff. LaTeX needs a place, I'm not sure yet where. Productivity ;) In the past it was part of SGML/XML and LaTeX AKA Textprocessing tools. Of course, you can do much more with these tools. -- Karl Eichwalder RD / Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH Key fingerprint = B2A3 AF2F CFC8 40B1 67EA 475A 5903 A21B 06EB 882E - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Having a defined CORE has its merits, Andreas Required (must have packages): .. yast2 yast2-bootloader yast2-core yast2-country etc etc May I ask why all YaST-packages are required. My cutlist is not great cause those packages are indeed required but why is ea yast2-dns-server required? Or am I walking on the wrong road? Azerion - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andreas Jaeger wrote: I only made a minimal list of patterns - and now want to open a new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have. I can add everything I find usefull - but please tell me what you find usefull ;-) Without having thought a lot about it - the initial selection by patterns/groupings is meant to give the user a system with a set software suitable for the primary purpose(s) of the machine being installed. So what are the typical main roles of an openSUSE system? Desktop | +--- Desktop for/with multimedia +--- Desktop for development +--- Desktop for office/backoffice +--- etcetera I added for now - and did this only for KDE, GNOME will come later - a generic KDE desktop pattern and a few sub patterns: * KDE-BASIS * KDE-Devel * KDE-Edutainment * KDE-Games * KDE-Help * KDE-IMAGE * KDE-Internet * KDE-Multimedia * KDE-Office * KDE-System * KDE-Utilities | Laptop +--- (not sure how to divide this) I don't know either. | Server | +--- Fileserver +--- Internetserver (DNS, web etc.) +--- Database +--- Directory +--- Firewall, network server +--- etcetera I have now: * Directory (LDAP) * Fileserver * Mailserver * LAMP * XEN * Internet Gateway | [other roles?] Development - not sure how to structure this. This is only a proposal - I really just wrote it up in five minutes. Maybe it's entirely in appropriate. Maybe the selection is 1-2-3 step: Primary qualifier, secondary qualifier, plus add-ons (things you might want to do regardless of which type of system): Experienced User, Kernel development, I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several patterns... Primary and secondary qualifier could fit into one page/window in a tree-style display as the above, and going to the 2nd window for add-ons could be made optional, such that new-bies or non-techies would have a fast-path, whereas techies and/or experienced users would still have the option of a detailed selection etc. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgpoRHdaF4J3w.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
* Andreas Jaeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Aug 21. 2006 14:48]: I added for now - and did this only for KDE, GNOME will come later - a generic KDE desktop pattern and a few sub patterns: * KDE-BASIS * KDE-Devel * KDE-Edutainment * KDE-Games * KDE-Help * KDE-IMAGE * KDE-Internet * KDE-Multimedia * KDE-Office * KDE-System * KDE-Utilities In order to facilitate discussions about patterns, I used some scripts and graphviz to generate dependency graphs. See http://en.opensuse.org/Patterns/Content#Pattern_Content and ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/kkaempf/graphs/index.html (sync in progress) I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several patterns... So what is an 'experienced user' and what does he expect from a system ? Klaus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Am Montag, 21. August 2006 14:48 schrieb Andreas Jaeger: Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andreas Jaeger wrote: [...] I added for now - and did this only for KDE, GNOME will come later - a generic KDE desktop pattern and a few sub patterns: * KDE-BASIS * KDE-Devel * KDE-Edutainment * KDE-Games * KDE-Help * KDE-IMAGE * KDE-Internet * KDE-Multimedia * KDE-Office * KDE-System * KDE-Utilities What about kdesdk (Kbabel,etc)? Will it be part of KDE-Devel? Laptop +--- (not sure how to divide this) I don't know either. I don't think there is need for a special laptop pattern. Powersave stuff should work with any PC. All the rest depends on specific laptops, so it shouldn't be installed on each laptop. E.g if you have an Acer laptop, why would you need sony laptop settings in Kcontrol? Or if you have a Dell, your probably not interested in IBM Thinkpad settings. These moduls are only workarounds for non working hard/software. Of course it would be great, if such packages could be installed automatically for the specific laptop only. Server +--- Fileserver +--- Internetserver (DNS, web etc.) +--- Database +--- Directory +--- Firewall, network server +--- etcetera I have now: * Directory (LDAP) * Fileserver Samba, NFS? * Mailserver * LAMP * XEN * Internet Gateway [other roles?] Database (MySQL, PostgreSQL) Development - not sure how to structure this. This is only a proposal - I really just wrote it up in five minutes. Maybe it's entirely in appropriate. Maybe the selection is 1-2-3 step: Primary qualifier, secondary qualifier, plus add-ons (things you might want to do regardless of which type of system): Experienced User, Kernel development, I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several patterns... Primary and secondary qualifier could fit into one page/window in a tree-style display as the above, and going to the 2nd window for add-ons could be made optional, such that new-bies or non-techies would have a fast-path, whereas techies and/or experienced users would still have the option of a detailed selection etc. Actually I would recommend to take over the old selections for the new patterns in expert mode. For newbies/non techies we should make new patterns, e.g First choice: [] KDE system [] Gnome system [] System with minimal desktop [] System without graphical desktop [] Expert Second choice (if choosen one of the above): [x] KDE system (base, help included) [] Edutainment [] Games [] Graphics [] Internet-Tools [] Multimedia [] Office [] System Utilities [] Development [] Artwork [] Wallpapers [] Fonts [] Screensavers [] Icons [ ] Gnome system (base, help included) [] Edutainment [] Games [] Graphics [] Internet-Tools [] Multimedia [] Office [] System Utilities [] Development [] Artwork [] System with minimal desktop [] Windowmaker [] Graphics [] Internet-Tools [] Multimedia [] Artwork [] Icewm [] Fvwm2 [] Xfce4 [] File and printserver [] Directory server (LDAP) [] Mailserver [] LAMP [] XEN [] Internet Gateway [] System without graphical desktop [] File and printserver [] Directory server (LDAP) [] Mailserver [] LAMP [] XEN [] Internet Gateway There should always be an Expert button, which gives back the possibility to choose one of the selections we had until 10.1, so old users wont be frustrated. Here there is also place for things like LaTeX. And: please keep the very good patterns for kde-development and gnome-development including almost everything one needs to compile a KDE/GTK app! -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Marcel Hilzinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Am Montag, 21. August 2006 17:11 schrieben Sie: [...] I did not add Artwork, that's in the base for me. Yes, but there are tonns of icon themes, window decos etc. Also the screensaver modules are not mandatory. Some more fonts for a default install would also be nice (see Ubuntu/Mandriva). What about the pictures in /usr/share/wallpapers are they Gnome/KDE only? Perhaps one wallpaper package would be enugh for both desktops. Ok, I'm considering it now ;-). [...] Have a look at factory by the end of the week (or at Alpha4) and then let's refine them together... OK. That's a better way. You're doing the work, we will complain ;-) Mmmh :-(. I'll have to figure something out so that it works the other way round ;-) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgpqIxMTSkx3M.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Anders Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here's an idea that I've been toying with for a long time now: How about a SUSE-CORE that is really CORE? Something that contains only the bare essentials of the system, such as glibc, kernel and a few other things. A really barebones system. We currently have a base pattern that is an extended core. I'm appending the list below and would like you to send me a proposal - either as definition or as list of what you would consider such a CORE. The question is then also what to do with the packages that are currently in the basis but should not be in the new CORE. If people like this, we can use it. I'm open for ideas... On top of this you have add-on products on separate media, such as KDE Desktop, Gnome Desktop, development tools, mail server, gaming system and so on. In each, the relevant configuration utilities, yast modules etc are included, so you only see on your system what you have installed That's more radical then I think - but something to discuss further. This would have two benefits: with a core system that is really core, it would be far easier to maintain separate from everything else. The subsystems could also be developed, tested and maintained separately, so you could have a two year release cycle of core, and a 1 year release cycle of KDE Desktop (for example). You want the kernel to be updated more often than every 2 years... The second benefit would be that it would be much easier for third party companies to create offerings that go in as an add-on on top of SUSE-CORE. Far fewer combinations to test, Moving away from the monolithic distribution is my idea. I think it would improve maintainability a lot Having a defined CORE has its merits, Andreas Required (must have packages): aaa_base aaa_skel acl ash attr audit-libs autoyast2 autoyast2-installation autoyast2-utils bash bzip2 checkmedia coreutils cpio cpp cracklib cups-client cups-libs curl cyrus-sasl cyrus-sasl-saslauthd db db-utils dbus-1 device-mapper diffutils e2fsprogs ed eject ethtool evms file filesystem fillup findutils glibc gnome-icon-theme grep groff gzip hwinfo insserv iproute2 iptables iputils kbd klogd krb5 ksymoops ldapcpplib less libacl libattr libcap libcom_err libgcc libnscd libxcrypt liby2util libzypp limal limal-bootloader limal-perl logrotate lvm2 m4 mailx make mdadm mingetty mkinitrd mkisofs mktemp module-init-tools multipath-tools ncurses net-tools netcfg openssh openssl pam pam-modules parted perl permissions procps psmisc pwdutils reiserfs rpm sed openSUSE-release suse-build-key sysconfig sysfsutils syslog-ng sysvinit tar tcpd util-linux vim w3m wget yast2 yast2-bootloader yast2-core yast2-country yast2-dhcp-server yast2-dns-server yast2-firewall yast2-hardware-detection yast2-installation yast2-instserver yast2-ldap yast2-ldap-client yast2-mail-aliases yast2-mouse yast2-ncurses yast2-network yast2-nfs-client yast2-nfs-server yast2-nis-client yast2-nis-server yast2-ntp-client yast2-online-update yast2-online-update-frontend yast2-packager yast2-pam yast2-perl-bindings yast2-pkg-bindings yast2-printer yast2-runlevel yast2-samba-client yast2-samba-server yast2-schema yast2-security yast2-storage yast2-storage-lib yast2-support yast2-sysconfig yast2-tftp-server yast2-theme-SuSELinux yast2-trans-stats yast2-transfer yast2-tune yast2-update yast2-users yast2-xml zlib #ifdef __ia64__ elilo efibootmgr ia32el #endif #if defined(__i386__) || defined (__x86_64__) microcode_ctl grub lilo #endif #ifdef __powerpc__ lilo #endif Recommended (should have - selected by default) packages: qlogic-firmware OpenIPMI SuSEfirewall2 acpid at autofs bc bind-libs bind-utils binutils blocxx bootcycle bootsplash compat compat-libstdc++ compat-openssl097g convmv cpufrequtils cron dbus-1-glib delayacct-utils deltarpm dhcpcd dmraid dos2unix dosfstools expat fbset finger freetype2 gawk gdb gdbm gettext glib2 glibc-i18ndata glibc-locale gnome-filesystem gpart gpg gpm hal hdparm hfsutils ifplugd info initviocons ipmitool ivman jfsutils joe ksh libevent libgcrypt libgpg-error libgssapi libidn libjpeg liblcms libmng libpcap libpfm libpng librpcsecgss libstdc++ libtiff libtool libusb libxml2 libxslt libzio linux32 log4net lsof lukemftp man man-pages master-boot-code mcelog mono-core mono-data mono-web mpt-status netcat nfs-utils nfsidmap nscd ntfsprogs numactl openct openldap2-client opensc openslp openslp-server patch pax pciutils pcre pcsc-lite pdisk pfmon pmtools popt portmap postfix powerpc32 powersave powersave-libs ppp pptp prctl procinfo procmail providers readline recode release-notes resmgr rsh rsync rug salinfo sash scpm screen scsi sharutils siga smartmontools smpppd sqlite star strace sudo suseRegister suspend syslinux tcpdump tcsh telnet terminfo timezone udev unzip usbutils utempter vlan wireless-tools wol wvdial wvstreams xfsprogs xinetd xntp yast2-backup yast2-boot-server yast2-bootfloppy yast2-cd-creator yast2-heartbeat
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Per Jessen a écrit : by role: So what are the typical main roles of an openSUSE system? Desktop | +--- Desktop for/with multimedia +--- Desktop for development +--- Desktop for office/backoffice +--- etcetera | Laptop +--- (not sure how to divide this) | Server | +--- Fileserver +--- Internetserver (DNS, web etc.) +--- Database +--- Directory +--- Firewall, network server +--- etcetera | [other roles?] by kind of desktop: * kde * gnome * windowmaker * xfce * others (fvwm,...) * no graphics at all jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
jdd wrote: by kind of desktop: * kde * gnome * windowmaker * xfce * others (fvwm,...) * no graphics at all Some of that choice - KDE/Gnome/other - is today made even before you choose groups of software. I still think the grouping should be mostly about the role the system is intended for, but obviously the type of desktop is important. The other choices you have listed - windowmaker, xfce, fvwm, etc - are probably less often used, and whilst the grouping/software config must be flexible, we also have to draw a line. The grouping is after all a compromise between a completely default install without options, and the other extreme of having to select all packages yourself :-) /Per
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
For Laptops:Laptop+--- Personal Laptop (fully featured, multimedia, office, web +++)+--- Business Laptop (Office suite, web, mindmanager, groupware, project organizer)+--- Tablet (configured tablet, handwriting recognition, virtual keyboard, doodle tool of sorts, PIM software) +--- Web surfing only (guess, prepared with java, flash ++. Reduced menu, lighter desktopmanager (often old computers))Divide them into the most frequently used purposes of a laptop On 8/12/06, Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jdd wrote: by kind of desktop: * kde * gnome * windowmaker * xfce * others (fvwm,...) * no graphics at allSome of that choice - KDE/Gnome/other - is today made even before you choose groups of software.I still think the grouping should be mostlyabout the role the system is intended for, but obviously the type ofdesktop is important.The other choices you have listed - windowmaker, xfce, fvwm, etc - are probably less often used, and whilst thegrouping/software config must be flexible, we also have to draw a line.The grouping is after all a compromise between a completely defaultinstall without options, and the other extreme of having to select all packages yourself :-)/Per-- Helsing Kristian Alvestad
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: new discussion on what kind of patterns we should have
Per Jessen wrote: jdd wrote: by kind of desktop: * kde * gnome * windowmaker * xfce * others (fvwm,...) * no graphics at all Some of that choice - KDE/Gnome/other - is today made even before you choose groups of software. I still think the grouping should be mostly about the role the system is intended for, but obviously the type of desktop is important. The other choices you have listed - windowmaker, xfce, fvwm, etc - are probably less often used, and whilst the grouping/software config must be flexible, we also have to draw a line. The grouping is after all a compromise between a completely default install without options, and the other extreme of having to select all packages yourself :-) /Per You proposal is the way to go. I think that wiki would be the best place to make wishes and extensions to your basic proposal. With little luck with Patterns advertising, so that many users can find the discussion page, there will be sufficient interest and activity to make good base for Andreas. I'll add Patterns to categories Development, Package Management and YaST. Link from Patterns to Patterns/Framework where will be discussed the general way how to set patterns up, with your proposal. Than it is up to Andreas to put link to article and discussion in some more prominent place like News or similar. -- Regards, Rajko. Visit http://en.opensuse.org/MiniSUSE
