Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
That is easy for somebody to say like you. Can anybody else on this mailing list say they found the ar2317 datasheet over the internet? What is your definition of many? My experience comes from living in china for 3 years. Statistically most chinese universities don't do anything with linux. On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:30 AM, tedunix tedu...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for sharing documents, Jason. In fact, the document can easily get from the Internet; Addtionally, you probably don't know about China and chinese's college education, nowadays, many universities have offered course about linux. Maybe you don't find the right people. 2010/7/17 linux_pro snipe...@gmail.com In China, this datasheet is full of the underground market. Just openwrt not made it. I believe that not only China, the more countries there is such a thing. thanks jason. thanks florian. 2010/7/16 Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com They have these datasheets and STILL can't do it. ouch. jason duhamell wrote: I would like to hire people to move to china, I am sick of the people building stuff not knowing what they are building. Education is a huge problem in china and not many universities teach linux. If anybody would like to discuss that, feel free to join in the conversation. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com mailto: spud...@gmail.com wrote: I'm positive it's not his own NDA that is being violated, he's just resourceful and weird things happen in China. He never made such an agreement and is not bound by the scary little grey watermarks, and neither are we. The only people or projects at any real risk here are whoever leaked it and broke their NDA contract, but then Atheros would have to be smart enough to individually tag each released PDF with an identifier that can't be scrubbed or modified in order to trace a leak back to its source. Considering this PDF doesn't even have the simple options enabled for no print and no cut/paste I completely doubt they did any of that. Also it was generated by cairo graphics, an open source graphics package with a PDF output generator, so it's probably already been scrubbed or Atheros is too cheap to use real Adobe software to generate its datasheets. Technically most of the reverse engineering that goes on in order for this project to exist in the first place is just as dangerous and/or illegal. There is code from improperly packaged GPL tarballs that still has Broadcom Proprietary Do Not Distribute or at least their copyright in the headers, and Linksys/Belkin/whoever didn't get legally kicked in the balls for it. Basically it would cost them more to chase and enforce their NDA than it would be worth, on a product this old. They already moved on to the AR9xxx series, and that's what they would more likely stomp on people for, if even. Of course still toss in the token We can't be involved with this type of thing as a good measure, but then don't negate it completely by basically saying but I still want these if you email me secretly in more or less the same sentence. You might as well have just said thanks. Florian Fainelli wrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 15:05:51 jason duhamell wrote: fuck them. open source all the way. You can express your point of view, I do not really care, but you do not have to impact the project in its whole by violating your own NDA and pushing such a datasheet in a public mailing-list. What happens if Atheros wants to take down the site? Think twice before you type Send please. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.org mailto:flor...@openwrt.orgwrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
Thanks for sharing documents, Jason. In fact, the document can easily get from the Internet; Addtionally, you probably don't know about China and chinese's college education, nowadays, many universities have offered course about linux. Maybe you don't find the right people. 2010/7/17 linux_pro snipe...@gmail.com In China, this datasheet is full of the underground market. Just openwrt not made it. I believe that not only China, the more countries there is such a thing. thanks jason. thanks florian. 2010/7/16 Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com They have these datasheets and STILL can't do it. ouch. jason duhamell wrote: I would like to hire people to move to china, I am sick of the people building stuff not knowing what they are building. Education is a huge problem in china and not many universities teach linux. If anybody would like to discuss that, feel free to join in the conversation. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com mailto: spud...@gmail.com wrote: I'm positive it's not his own NDA that is being violated, he's just resourceful and weird things happen in China. He never made such an agreement and is not bound by the scary little grey watermarks, and neither are we. The only people or projects at any real risk here are whoever leaked it and broke their NDA contract, but then Atheros would have to be smart enough to individually tag each released PDF with an identifier that can't be scrubbed or modified in order to trace a leak back to its source. Considering this PDF doesn't even have the simple options enabled for no print and no cut/paste I completely doubt they did any of that. Also it was generated by cairo graphics, an open source graphics package with a PDF output generator, so it's probably already been scrubbed or Atheros is too cheap to use real Adobe software to generate its datasheets. Technically most of the reverse engineering that goes on in order for this project to exist in the first place is just as dangerous and/or illegal. There is code from improperly packaged GPL tarballs that still has Broadcom Proprietary Do Not Distribute or at least their copyright in the headers, and Linksys/Belkin/whoever didn't get legally kicked in the balls for it. Basically it would cost them more to chase and enforce their NDA than it would be worth, on a product this old. They already moved on to the AR9xxx series, and that's what they would more likely stomp on people for, if even. Of course still toss in the token We can't be involved with this type of thing as a good measure, but then don't negate it completely by basically saying but I still want these if you email me secretly in more or less the same sentence. You might as well have just said thanks. Florian Fainelli wrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 15:05:51 jason duhamell wrote: fuck them. open source all the way. You can express your point of view, I do not really care, but you do not have to impact the project in its whole by violating your own NDA and pushing such a datasheet in a public mailing-list. What happens if Atheros wants to take down the site? Think twice before you type Send please. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.org mailto:flor...@openwrt.orgwrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:39 PM, jason duhamell ps2chi...@gmail.com wrote: ar2317 datasheet ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
fuck them. open source all the way. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.orgwrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
Still wonder why they make these so hard to get and mark them obnoxiously like it's going to burn down their company if the wrong people get their hands on them. jason duhamell wrote: ar2317 datasheet ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
to protect their customers competition I guess. but its easier to steal then to invent and releasing datasheets could only help their sales, not damage it. its just 1980's anti business thinking. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com wrote: Still wonder why they make these so hard to get and mark them obnoxiously like it's going to burn down their company if the wrong people get their hands on them. jason duhamell wrote: ar2317 datasheet ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
On Friday 16 July 2010 15:05:51 jason duhamell wrote: fuck them. open source all the way. You can express your point of view, I do not really care, but you do not have to impact the project in its whole by violating your own NDA and pushing such a datasheet in a public mailing-list. What happens if Atheros wants to take down the site? Think twice before you type Send please. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.orgwrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
its the apple vs microsoft issue back from the 1980's when apple wanted to restrict its prices and sales to only a few people. Microsoft flooded the market with windows and let anybody make software for it. Apple at that time was chasing pirates and forcing their market to shrink. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:13 PM, jason duhamell ps2chi...@gmail.com wrote: to protect their customers competition I guess. but its easier to steal then to invent and releasing datasheets could only help their sales, not damage it. its just 1980's anti business thinking. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com wrote: Still wonder why they make these so hard to get and mark them obnoxiously like it's going to burn down their company if the wrong people get their hands on them. jason duhamell wrote: ar2317 datasheet ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
I'm positive it's not his own NDA that is being violated, he's just resourceful and weird things happen in China. He never made such an agreement and is not bound by the scary little grey watermarks, and neither are we. The only people or projects at any real risk here are whoever leaked it and broke their NDA contract, but then Atheros would have to be smart enough to individually tag each released PDF with an identifier that can't be scrubbed or modified in order to trace a leak back to its source. Considering this PDF doesn't even have the simple options enabled for no print and no cut/paste I completely doubt they did any of that. Also it was generated by cairo graphics, an open source graphics package with a PDF output generator, so it's probably already been scrubbed or Atheros is too cheap to use real Adobe software to generate its datasheets. Technically most of the reverse engineering that goes on in order for this project to exist in the first place is just as dangerous and/or illegal. There is code from improperly packaged GPL tarballs that still has Broadcom Proprietary Do Not Distribute or at least their copyright in the headers, and Linksys/Belkin/whoever didn't get legally kicked in the balls for it. Basically it would cost them more to chase and enforce their NDA than it would be worth, on a product this old. They already moved on to the AR9xxx series, and that's what they would more likely stomp on people for, if even. Of course still toss in the token We can't be involved with this type of thing as a good measure, but then don't negate it completely by basically saying but I still want these if you email me secretly in more or less the same sentence. You might as well have just said thanks. Florian Fainelli wrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 15:05:51 jason duhamell wrote: fuck them. open source all the way. You can express your point of view, I do not really care, but you do not have to impact the project in its whole by violating your own NDA and pushing such a datasheet in a public mailing-list. What happens if Atheros wants to take down the site? Think twice before you type Send please. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.orgwrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
I would like to hire people to move to china, I am sick of the people building stuff not knowing what they are building. Education is a huge problem in china and not many universities teach linux. If anybody would like to discuss that, feel free to join in the conversation. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com wrote: I'm positive it's not his own NDA that is being violated, he's just resourceful and weird things happen in China. He never made such an agreement and is not bound by the scary little grey watermarks, and neither are we. The only people or projects at any real risk here are whoever leaked it and broke their NDA contract, but then Atheros would have to be smart enough to individually tag each released PDF with an identifier that can't be scrubbed or modified in order to trace a leak back to its source. Considering this PDF doesn't even have the simple options enabled for no print and no cut/paste I completely doubt they did any of that. Also it was generated by cairo graphics, an open source graphics package with a PDF output generator, so it's probably already been scrubbed or Atheros is too cheap to use real Adobe software to generate its datasheets. Technically most of the reverse engineering that goes on in order for this project to exist in the first place is just as dangerous and/or illegal. There is code from improperly packaged GPL tarballs that still has Broadcom Proprietary Do Not Distribute or at least their copyright in the headers, and Linksys/Belkin/whoever didn't get legally kicked in the balls for it. Basically it would cost them more to chase and enforce their NDA than it would be worth, on a product this old. They already moved on to the AR9xxx series, and that's what they would more likely stomp on people for, if even. Of course still toss in the token We can't be involved with this type of thing as a good measure, but then don't negate it completely by basically saying but I still want these if you email me secretly in more or less the same sentence. You might as well have just said thanks. Florian Fainelli wrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 15:05:51 jason duhamell wrote: fuck them. open source all the way. You can express your point of view, I do not really care, but you do not have to impact the project in its whole by violating your own NDA and pushing such a datasheet in a public mailing-list. What happens if Atheros wants to take down the site? Think twice before you type Send please. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.org wrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
They have these datasheets and STILL can't do it. ouch. jason duhamell wrote: I would like to hire people to move to china, I am sick of the people building stuff not knowing what they are building. Education is a huge problem in china and not many universities teach linux. If anybody would like to discuss that, feel free to join in the conversation. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com mailto:spud...@gmail.com wrote: I'm positive it's not his own NDA that is being violated, he's just resourceful and weird things happen in China. He never made such an agreement and is not bound by the scary little grey watermarks, and neither are we. The only people or projects at any real risk here are whoever leaked it and broke their NDA contract, but then Atheros would have to be smart enough to individually tag each released PDF with an identifier that can't be scrubbed or modified in order to trace a leak back to its source. Considering this PDF doesn't even have the simple options enabled for no print and no cut/paste I completely doubt they did any of that. Also it was generated by cairo graphics, an open source graphics package with a PDF output generator, so it's probably already been scrubbed or Atheros is too cheap to use real Adobe software to generate its datasheets. Technically most of the reverse engineering that goes on in order for this project to exist in the first place is just as dangerous and/or illegal. There is code from improperly packaged GPL tarballs that still has Broadcom Proprietary Do Not Distribute or at least their copyright in the headers, and Linksys/Belkin/whoever didn't get legally kicked in the balls for it. Basically it would cost them more to chase and enforce their NDA than it would be worth, on a product this old. They already moved on to the AR9xxx series, and that's what they would more likely stomp on people for, if even. Of course still toss in the token We can't be involved with this type of thing as a good measure, but then don't negate it completely by basically saying but I still want these if you email me secretly in more or less the same sentence. You might as well have just said thanks. Florian Fainelli wrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 15:05:51 jason duhamell wrote: fuck them. open source all the way. You can express your point of view, I do not really care, but you do not have to impact the project in its whole by violating your own NDA and pushing such a datasheet in a public mailing-list. What happens if Atheros wants to take down the site? Think twice before you type Send please. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.org mailto:flor...@openwrt.orgwrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Jason from Shenzhen
In China, this datasheet is full of the underground market. Just openwrt not made it. I believe that not only China, the more countries there is such a thing. thanks jason. thanks florian. 2010/7/16 Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com They have these datasheets and STILL can't do it. ouch. jason duhamell wrote: I would like to hire people to move to china, I am sick of the people building stuff not knowing what they are building. Education is a huge problem in china and not many universities teach linux. If anybody would like to discuss that, feel free to join in the conversation. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Spudz76 spud...@gmail.com mailto: spud...@gmail.com wrote: I'm positive it's not his own NDA that is being violated, he's just resourceful and weird things happen in China. He never made such an agreement and is not bound by the scary little grey watermarks, and neither are we. The only people or projects at any real risk here are whoever leaked it and broke their NDA contract, but then Atheros would have to be smart enough to individually tag each released PDF with an identifier that can't be scrubbed or modified in order to trace a leak back to its source. Considering this PDF doesn't even have the simple options enabled for no print and no cut/paste I completely doubt they did any of that. Also it was generated by cairo graphics, an open source graphics package with a PDF output generator, so it's probably already been scrubbed or Atheros is too cheap to use real Adobe software to generate its datasheets. Technically most of the reverse engineering that goes on in order for this project to exist in the first place is just as dangerous and/or illegal. There is code from improperly packaged GPL tarballs that still has Broadcom Proprietary Do Not Distribute or at least their copyright in the headers, and Linksys/Belkin/whoever didn't get legally kicked in the balls for it. Basically it would cost them more to chase and enforce their NDA than it would be worth, on a product this old. They already moved on to the AR9xxx series, and that's what they would more likely stomp on people for, if even. Of course still toss in the token We can't be involved with this type of thing as a good measure, but then don't negate it completely by basically saying but I still want these if you email me secretly in more or less the same sentence. You might as well have just said thanks. Florian Fainelli wrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 15:05:51 jason duhamell wrote: fuck them. open source all the way. You can express your point of view, I do not really care, but you do not have to impact the project in its whole by violating your own NDA and pushing such a datasheet in a public mailing-list. What happens if Atheros wants to take down the site? Think twice before you type Send please. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Florian Fainelli flor...@openwrt.org mailto:flor...@openwrt.orgwrote: On Friday 16 July 2010 14:59:03 Roman Yeryomin wrote: Thanks Jason, datasheet is always valuable stuff! Yeah especially if you are not allowed to distribute it. Please send such stuff in private in order not to compromise the project with potential legal issues. -- Florian ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org mailto:openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
