Re: first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain...

[Greg Moore]

> I got calls from six different recruiters within two days

So none of them had a handful of resumes on their desk from Oracle DBA's
desperately seeking work

;-)


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Re: Duhvelopers and DB-ehs?

[Rachel Carmichael]

okay, I'm in awe here.


>From: "Don Granaman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Duhvelopers and DB-ehs?
>Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:26:24 -0800
>
>RE: Duhvelopers and DB-ehs?OK.  I've resisted the temptation so far, but 
>(puffing out chest)...
>
>In one job in my distant past, at a turnkey software/systems shop, four 
>(initially two) of us used to administer about half a dozen in house Oracle 
>servers and remotely administer about 2-3 dozen of our clients' database 
>servers.  They were scattered all over the US and Canada and we all did 
>database and Unix systems administration "part time".  About 80% of our 
>time was spent in custom software/systems design and development.  
>Everybody got Oracle DBA training, but nobody was a full-time DBA or 
>systems administrator.  (A very novel approach that resulted in very few 
>deeply imbedded application performance issues!)
>
>From late 1997 until mid-1999 I administered up to about 45 Oracle 
>databases (each was 10-200 GB & OLTP) by myself - including 
>design/modeling, code reviews and tuning, physical server configuration 
>(sizing systems, creating raw devices, etc.), and production database 
>administration.  I was the only Oracle DBA in the entire company for my 
>first 18 months there!  We actually had about 12 distinct Oracle-based 
>application systems, most with distinct dev, functional test, performance 
>test, and production databases.  These were spread over more than 40 Sun 
>servers ranging from Ultra 2s to E10Ks.  Three of the production systems 
>were on Sun PDB cluster and Oracle parallel server.  Critical?  At least 
>four were the core components of the trading systems at one of the world's 
>largest online brokerages - serious 24 x forever with (usually) million+ 
>dollar costs for any downtime.
>
>Actually the number was about 24 databases until Jan 1999.  At that time, 
>they gave me some help - the guy who was the (only) DBA for the Informix 
>system (which was phased out the following Fall) - to retrain as an Oracle 
>DBA.  Two weeks later I was asked to create 21 new databases on 17 new 
>servers - within nine days.  I made it with a little under an hour to 
>spare.  That brought the total up to about 45.  By August, the ex-Informix 
>DBA was doing Oracle full time and they had hired some more help (all with 
>no significant Oracle experience!) - and,  of course, added another 20-30 
>databases!  When I left a couple of months ago (no surprise is it?) we had 
>42 production Oracle databases on 35 production servers, with a total of 
>over 160 databases on over 120 servers, administered by 6 DBAs.  We also 
>had over 100 other servers (Web servers, WebLogic servers, Tuxedo servers, 
>etc.) that had the Oracle client (including Pro*C)installed - which we also 
>maintained.
>
>Of course I was working an average of about 95 hours/week much of that 
>time... And sleeping less than half that.
>
>For none of these did I ever have any significant 3rd party tools (BMC 
>Patrol, etc.).  I did develop a *LOT* of homegrown scripts and automation 
>though. [I still prefer, with a very few select exceptions, homegrown tools 
>over commercial tools.]  The other key was in *ADAMANTLY INSISTING* on 
>being able to set things up "right" at the start.  Having enough space on 
>(at least most) test systems to load (or clone) production-sized databases 
>helped also.
>
>This sounds kinda like "When I was a kid, we had to walk five miles to 
>school in neck-deep snow - uphill both ways!" doesn't it?  Unfortunately, 
>its true.  I have references and the complete lack of an outside life to 
>prove it!  Since I left, I've been decompressing and going through social 
>rehabilitation  ["Hi, my name is Don.  I haven't been on a bridge call in 
>over two months."  (Smattering of applause...)]
>
>-Don Granaman
>[certifiable OraSaurus and shameless braggart]
>
>PS:  Most of, and certainly the best of, the DBA's I've ever worked with 
>had significant prior experience as developers (not "duhvelopers").
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Weaver, Walt
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 12:18 PM
>   Subject: RE: Duhvelopers and DB-ehs?
>
>
>   Yeah, well, in a previous life I was in charge of 27 databases on 9 
>servers ALL BY MYSELF. Didn't have anybody working with me, man. Zilch. 
>Nada.
>
>   And, of course, I'm not going to talk about the nature of the systems 
>'cause then it wouldn't sound so impressive
>
>   --Walt Weaver
> Bozeman, Montana
> -Original Message-
> From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 10:38 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Duhvelopers and DB-ehs?
>
>
> We do about the same number with 6 DBAs...
>
> (not that that means sh*t without talking about the nature of the 
>systems, of course)


__

RE: An Interesting Grouping Question

[Larry Elkins]

Ian,

Stephane mentioned the possibility of using analytical functions. I know
that you have used the analytical functions in the past so you may have
already taken Stephane's idea and run with it, and maybe Stephane has as
well. If not, here is Stephane's solution modified so that the DB function
"course_index" (and the call to it) is replaced with an in-line view using
the ROW_NUMBER function.

Note in the following select that "course_set", using the in-line view with
the ROW_NUMBER function, returns the same results as Stephane's calculation
using the DB function. I included the use of Stephane's code calling his
function for comparison purposes.

SELECT
  x.emplid,
  sum(x.course_id * power(10,z.stephane - 1)) course_set,
  sum(x.course_id * power(10,course_index(x.emplid,x.course_id) - 1)) Steph
FROM
  ian x,
  (SELECT emplid,
  course_id,
  ROW_NUMBER() OVER (PARTITION BY emplid
 ORDER BY course_id desc) as stephane
   FROM   ian) z
WHERE
  x.emplid= z.emplidand
  x.course_id = z.course_id
GROUP BY
  x.emplid
ORDER BY
  2,1

When you showed the groupings, you had emplid's with the same courses on a
single line separated by commas. I'm not sure if that is how you want the
output, or, if you were simply showing the pairings. If you want the output
like that, then obviously the above isn't doing that, and with the number of
matching emplid's unknown in the "real" world, a call to a DB function to
get them on the same line would be needed.

I've got a question that maybe someone can answer. One approach I tried was
using the CAST function. This required creating a  type (not a purely
relational approach):

create or replace type IanTableType as table of number
/

  1  select emplid,
  2 cast(multiset(select course_id from ian x where x.emplid =
ian.emplid ) as IanTableType) x
  3  from ian
  4* group by emplid
SQL> /

EMPLID X
-- --
 1 IANTABLETYPE(1)
 2 IANTABLETYPE(2, 3)
 3 IANTABLETYPE(3, 4, 5)
 4 IANTABLETYPE(3, 4, 5)
 5 IANTABLETYPE(2, 3)
 6 IANTABLETYPE(1)
 7 IANTABLETYPE(2)
 8 IANTABLETYPE(3, 4)

8 rows selected.

Now this gives me each emplid on a single line with the courses they took.
If I could order by the CAST function I could accomplish the same thing as
in the prior query. But, you can't order by the CAST function, at least not
directly. Any tricks to simulate this or get around it?


Regards,

Larry G. Elkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
214.954.1781

>
> I don't think you can, unless, perhaps, you use the analytical functions
> which I have never had the opportunity to play with.  Problem number 1
> is getting an identifier for each set of courses. Since you must get
> this through a 'GROUP BY', the only chance is a numerical expression. An
> obvious candidate is something like sum(course_id * power(10, n -1))
> where n is the order (starting with 1) of course ids suitably ordered
> for each employee - restarting from 1 with each employee. Getting n is
> the trouble. You cannot get it through rownums and in-line views, it
> would require some kind of ugly three-way correlation between views in
> the FROM clause and a subquery. The best solution I see, but it's not a
> 'pure play' one, is to create a function
>
>   create or replace function course_index(p_emplid in number,
>   p_course_id in number)
>   return number
>   as
> n_val  number;
>   begin
> select a.n
> into n_val
> from (select b.course_id, rownum n
>   from (select course_id
> from courses_taken
> where emplid = p_emplid
> order by 1 desc) b) a
> where a.course_id = p_course_id;
> return n
>   exception
> when no_data_found then
>  return null;
>  end;
>
>  Then it becomes relatively easy to write
>
>   select emplid, sum(course_id * power(10, course_index(emplid,
> course_id) - 1) course_set
>   from courses_taken
>   group by emplid
>
>   and then to do whatever you want.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Stephane Faroult
> Oriole Corporation
> Voice:  +44  (0) 7050-696-269
> Fax:+44  (0) 7050-696-449
> Performance Tools & Free Scripts

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Re: diff 8.1.6 & 8.1.7

[Paul Drake]

tran wrote:
> 
> Hi Guy,
> 
> Could someone  kindly tell me what's difference between 8.1.6 & 8.1.7
> 
> Tran

one of them is supported after 31-OCT-2001.
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file/tablespace deleted at the OS level

[Charlie Mengler]

Oracle V9.0.1 Solaris 2.6 a development instance

I made more than one mistake which resulted in me
deleting a file that held single table tablespace. Now
the instance won't STARTUP (naturally). Since I
can easily recreate the data, I'd like to know how
to convince Oracle to ignore the missing file and
startup.

If my recovery steps fail, I'll get all the files for this
instance restored from Thursday's cold backups.

TIA & HAND!

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Re: RE: Duhvelopers and DB-ehs?

[Gary Weber]

A modern day classic!

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:20 PM


> I am in charge of 273 databases at sites throughout the world, some of
them
> in places with no electricity where we have an elephant on a treadmill
> supplying power. I personally had to once step in for the elephant when he
> was feeling under the weather.
>
> All of these databases are 26 x 8, meaning 26 hours a day eight days a
week
> since we have to deal with the additional day caused by the international
> date line, and two extra hours because of some places have weird time
zones.
> On certain days the International Time committee adds a leap second to the
> day which means that on those days I have to work an extra second * 273
> databases which adds up to several minutes.
>
> On 19 of those databases, due to the lack of funds for storage, I have to
do
> a backup to paper, i.e. I have to manually read every table through select
> statements and write them down on paper using a broken pencil.
>
> We are planning on sending a few databases out onto satellites, one of
them
> on a probe to Neptune. I will also be in charge of the backup/uptime for
> those mission-critical systems, since they will be used as the back-end
for
> a
> website that receives thousands of hits per minute (a Britney Spears fan
> club site).
>
> I am the only human DBA. We have three helper monkeys at remote locations
> but they are currently on strike.
>
> I have to run off now because the coffee machine is broken and no one is
> here to fix it except me. I had to carve my own coffe cup out of wood
> because I can't afford ceramic.
>

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Re: file/tablespace deleted at the OS level

[Rachel Carmichael]

startup mount
alter tablespace offline drop;
alter database open;
drop tablespace including contents;
create tablespace 


shutdown and do another backup

offline drop tells oracle to ignore the fact that it's not there, you're 
going to get rid of it anyway.

I'm doing this from memory here, check the docs to make sure it's tablespace 
offline drop and not datafile offline drop



>From: Charlie Mengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: file/tablespace deleted at the OS level
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 09:05:20 -0800
>
>Oracle V9.0.1 Solaris 2.6 a development instance
>
>I made more than one mistake which resulted in me
>deleting a file that held single table tablespace. Now
>the instance won't STARTUP (naturally). Since I
>can easily recreate the data, I'd like to know how
>to convince Oracle to ignore the missing file and
>startup.
>
>If my recovery steps fail, I'll get all the files for this
>instance restored from Thursday's cold backups.
>
>TIA & HAND!
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Charlie Mengler
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
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>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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Re: file/tablespace deleted at the OS level

[Joe Testa]

ÌÌÌ

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noarchivelog mode.

startup mount
alter database datafile 'filename' offline drop;
alter database open;
drop tablespace ;

joe


Charlie Mengler wrote:
> 
> Oracle V9.0.1 Solaris 2.6 a development instance
> 
> I made more than one mistake which resulted in me
> deleting a file that held single table tablespace. Now
> the instance won't STARTUP (naturally). Since I
> can easily recreate the data, I'd like to know how
> to convince Oracle to ignore the missing file and
> startup.
> 
> If my recovery steps fail, I'll get all the files for this
> instance restored from Thursday's cold backups.
> 
> TIA & HAND!
> 


-- 
Joe Testa  
Performing Remote DBA Services, need some backup DBA support?
For Sale: Oracle-dba.com domain, its not going cheap but feel free to
ask :)
IM: n8xcthome or joen8xct
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Re: file/tablespace deleted at the OS level

[Paul Drake]

Charlie,

What I have used in the past in testing only.
For this example, lets call them fodder_data and fodder_index.

startup mount
alter database datafile 'F:\ORACLE\ORADATA\TEST\FODDER_DATA01.DBF'
offline drop;
alter database datafile 'F:\ORACLE\ORADATA\TEST\FODDER_INDEX01.DBF'
offline drop;
alter database open;
drop tablespace fodder_data including contents;
drop tablespace fodder_index including contents;
alter database backup controlfile to trace;
quit

ref - http://tahiti.oracle.com/pls/tahiti/tahiti.tabbed?section=75578

but I'd test it out first ...

Paul


Charlie Mengler wrote:
> 
> Oracle V9.0.1 Solaris 2.6 a development instance
> 
> I made more than one mistake which resulted in me
> deleting a file that held single table tablespace. Now
> the instance won't STARTUP (naturally). Since I
> can easily recreate the data, I'd like to know how
> to convince Oracle to ignore the missing file and
> startup.
> 
> If my recovery steps fail, I'll get all the files for this
> instance restored from Thursday's cold backups.
> 
> TIA & HAND!
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Charlie Mengler
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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Re: file/tablespace deleted at the OS level

[Rachel Carmichael]

I *said* I wasn't sure it was drop datafile or drop tablespace :)

I sit corrected 


>From: Joe Testa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: file/tablespace deleted at the OS level
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 09:46:21 -0800
>
>ÌÌÌ
>X-Declude-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [63.36.117.230]
>X-Declude-Spoolname: D104b238.SMD
>X-Note: This E-mail was sent from 1cust230.tnt2.circleville.oh.da.uu.net. 
>([63.36.117.230]).
>X-Note: Please send abuse reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>noarchivelog mode.
>
>startup mount
>alter database datafile 'filename' offline drop;
>alter database open;
>drop tablespace ;
>
>joe
>
>
>Charlie Mengler wrote:
> >
> > Oracle V9.0.1 Solaris 2.6 a development instance
> >
> > I made more than one mistake which resulted in me
> > deleting a file that held single table tablespace. Now
> > the instance won't STARTUP (naturally). Since I
> > can easily recreate the data, I'd like to know how
> > to convince Oracle to ignore the missing file and
> > startup.
> >
> > If my recovery steps fail, I'll get all the files for this
> > instance restored from Thursday's cold backups.
> >
> > TIA & HAND!
> >
>
>
>--
>Joe Testa
>Performing Remote DBA Services, need some backup DBA support?
>For Sale: Oracle-dba.com domain, its not going cheap but feel free to
>ask :)
>IM: n8xcthome or joen8xct
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Joe Testa
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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Re: !! Keeping the list alive

[Jared Still]

Just to add to my previous comment:

I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.

The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
DBA in database related matters.

Not a duhveloper in the bunch.

Ya gotta love it!

Jared

On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
>
> Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
>
> And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
> "Thomas, Kevin"
>  list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping the
> list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> Please respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
> we
> all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
> topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> application if your lives depended on it...
>
> (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
> wait for fireworks)
>
>
> "hit any user to continue"
> __
>
> Kevin Thomas
> Technical Analyst
> Deregulation Services
> Calanais Ltd.
> (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> Tel: 0141 568 2377
> Fax: 0141 568 2366
> http://www.calanais.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
>
> make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
> we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
> :)
>
> From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
>
> under-worked
>
> >
> >  <>
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> >  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
>
> you
>
> >than I
> >
> >  > realized.
> >  >
> >  > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> >  > so many emails
> >  > about
> >  > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right
>
> now.
>
> >  --
> >  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >  --
> >  Author:
> >INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >  Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
>
> 538-5051
>
> >  San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> >Lists
>
> 
>
> >  To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
>
> message
>
> >  to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and
>
> in
>
> >  the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >  (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You
>
> may
>
> >  also send the HELP command for other information (like
>
> subscribing).
>
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.ora

Re: An Interesting Grouping Question | One Solution

[Jared Still]

You got it.

Jared

On Friday 31 August 2001 15:40, MacGregor, Ian A. wrote:
> One will definitely need a separator so one can tell course 111 from course
> concat(course 1, course 11).  I  should have indicated that.  If you are
> asking why you used a colon specifically, I don't know.
>
> Ian MacGregor
> Stanford Linear Acclerator Center
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:08 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: MacGregor, Ian A.
>
>
>
> Ian,
>
> You just had to throw down the gauntlet, didn't you?   :)
>
> Here's my solution.  You may consider it cheating, as I've done pretty much
> what your
> developer came up with, but I used a stored funtion.
>
> This can probably be done in 'pure' SQL, but I don't have enough time to
> ponder it right now.
>
> Incidentally, I concatenate a ':' in the string with every course id?
> Guess why?  ;)
>
> Jared
>
>  create the test table
>
> drop table ian;
>
> create table ian ( emp_id number(2), course_id number(2));
>
>
> insert into ian values( 1, 1 );
> insert into ian values( 2, 2 );
> insert into ian values( 2, 3 );
> insert into ian values( 3, 3 );
> insert into ian values( 3, 4 );
> insert into ian values( 3, 5 );
> insert into ian values( 4, 3 );
> insert into ian values( 4, 4 );
> insert into ian values( 4, 5 );
> insert into ian values( 5, 2 );
> insert into ian values( 5, 3 );
> insert into ian values( 6, 1 );
> insert into ian values( 7, 2 );
> insert into ian values( 8, 3 );
> insert into ian values( 8, 4 );
>
> commit;
>
>
> --- create the function
>
> create or replace function get_course_set( emp_id_in ian.emp_id%type )
> return varchar2
> is
>vCourseStr varchar2(100);
> begin
>
>for emprec in (
>   select course_id
>   from ian
>   where emp_id = emp_id_in
>) loop
>   vCourseStr := vCourseStr || to_char(emprec.course_id) || ':' ;
>end loop;
>
>return vCourseStr;
>
> end;
> /
>
> --- run the test
>
> col course_set format a30 head 'COURSE SET'
>
> break on course_set skip 1
>
> select
>get_course_set(emp_id) course_set
>, emp_id
> from ian
> group by emp_id
> order by 1
> /
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "MacGregor,
> Ian A."  To: Multiple recipients of
> list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   cc:
> ford.EDU>Subject: RE: An Interesting
> Grouping Question | One Solution Sent by:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> om
>
>
> 08/31/01 11:00
> AM
> Please respond
> to ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I could not think of a way to do it with any of the analytical functions.
> The developer's method was  to make an array with
> one element being the emplid and the other a string with all that employees
> courses sorted and concatenated  together.  Then one can group the
> employees by comparing the strings.
>
> There are many superb SQL programmers on the list.   I thought one might
> take a stab at it.
>
> Ian MacGregor
> Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:47 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
> "MacGregor, Ian A." wrote:
> > Given the following Table
> >
> > emplid   course_id
> > --   -
> >  1   1
> >  2   2
> >  2   3
> >  3   3
> >  3   4
> >  3   5
> >  4   3
> >  4   4
> >  4   5
> >  5   2
> >  5   3
> >  6   1
> >  7   2
> >  8   3
> >  8   4
>
> ---
>-
>
> > What statement would you write  to  group employees by the set of courses
>
> they have taken.  In otherwords  each employee in a group must have taken
> the same as the others in  the group, not one class more nor less.  In this
> example the employees making up the groups would be
>
> > 1,6
> > 2,5
> > 3,4
> > 7
> > and 8
> >
> > I had this posed by one of my developers.   He had also come up with a
>
> solution which didn't take a relational approach.  The approach is not
> exotic, and I suspect it will be proposed by many people.  He'd like a
> relational one.
>
> > Ian MacGregor
> > Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I don't think you can, unless, perhaps, you use the analytical functions
> which I have never had the opportunity to play with.  Problem number 1
> is getting an identifier for each set of courses. Since you must get
> this through a 'GROUP BY', the only chance is a numerical expression. An
> obviou

Re: database consistency tools ?

[Jared Still]

Didn't??

Got news for you, they still need it.

Jared


On Friday 31 August 2001 11:45, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
> oh, just about never :)   but it would do basically the same thing. It's
> just that Oracle rarely ever needs to do this and Sybase rarely DIDN'T need
> to do this
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: database consistency tools ?
> >Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:49:09 -0700
> >
> >
> >That's probably a logical equiv.
> >
> >How often do you actually run it though?  :)
> >
> >Jared
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Rachel
> > Carmichael"  To: Multiple recipients of
> >list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  > ail.com> Subject: Re: database
> >consistency tools ?
> > Sent by:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > om
> >
> >
> > 08/30/01 06:06
> > PM
> > Please respond
> > to ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Jared,
> >
> >having been a sybase dba (I know, forgive me for straying)... we ran dbcc
> > a
> >
> >lot.
> >
> >Oracle equivalent (poor equivalent) would be "analyze table validate
> >structure"  maybe?
> >
> >Rachel
>
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jared Still
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: financial problems with fatcity.com

[Jared Still]

Hmm, lemme try again.



S*u*b*s*c*r*i*p*t*i*o*n service is definitely not an option.

Neither Bruce or I can manage something like that.

Jared

On Wednesday 29 August 2001 12:35, Jacques Kilchoer wrote:
> -Original Message-
>
> >Alex, that is an excellent idea! I second that notion.
>
> "doh.state.fl.us"? Does that University count Homere Simpson amongst its
> proud alumni?
>
>
> Please excuse the long e-mail, but since the suggestion has been made to
> make this a "subscription" list, I will share some of the issues that I am
> grappling with (along with others) as part of a volunteer moderator at an
> internet message board, where we are currently debating a fee-based message
> board instead of free membership.
>
> My personal opinion (though of course this would be Mr. Still and Mr.
> Bergman's decision) is that having a "subscription" list would be very hard
> to manage. If someone who has provided valuable responses (e.g. a Steve
> Adams) doesn't pay his fee, do you immediately unsubscribe him from the
> list? Do you prevent him from posting an answer? What's the grace period
> for non-payment of fees? Would there be a trial period, or would you have
> to pay before you can even see what the list is like? Paying before you can
> see the content would diminish new membership, and new membership is
> essential to the survival of a list such as this one. If you have a free
> introductory period, I could sign up with a different "free" e-mail (e.g.
> hotmail) every month and never pay. Only the "honest" people would pay,
> which would end up being the same as asking for voluntary donations.
> Another issue - how many people would go try out another "free" list?
> Charging a fee may mean the demise of this list. I think that the list is
> worth a modest fee, but what percentage of the membership will think so?
> What if a person has paid for membership, but is posting messages
> disruptive to the list (e.g. spam or insults.) Do you refund their fee when
> you remove them from the list? Do they have more rights as a "paying
> customer"? How about the archives? Would you have to pay to see them? What
> about people that always ask questions, but never answer any? Would they be
> charged more? Would some of our "experts" become resentful since they are
> paying Mr. Bergman and giving out more information than they are receiving?
> I can very well imagine a person thinking "why should I give out free
> answers when Mr. Bergman 'profits' from my expertise?" (Of course I realize
> that there is very little, if any, 'profit' involved, but some people may
> not be convinced of that.)
>
> These are all difficult questions that would be faced by the person
> maintaining the list. Without charging enough to make the list profitable,
> it might not be worth the headache.


Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="Attachment: 1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Description:

- end returned message -

---
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jared Still
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

OT: financial problems with fatcity.com

[Charlie Mengler]

Another way of saying it -

Nothing is impossible for the person who does NOT have to do it.


Jared Still wrote:

> Hmm, lemme try again.
>
> 
>
> S*u*b*s*c*r*i*p*t*i*o*n service is definitely not an option.
>
> Neither Bruce or I can manage something like that.
>
> Jared
>
> On Wednesday 29 August 2001 12:35, Jacques Kilchoer wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> >
> > >Alex, that is an excellent idea! I second that notion.
> >
> > "doh.state.fl.us"? Does that University count Homere Simpson amongst its
> > proud alumni?
> >
> >
> > Please excuse the long e-mail, but since the suggestion has been made to
> > make this a "subscription" list, I will share some of the issues that I am
> > grappling with (along with others) as part of a volunteer moderator at an
> > internet message board, where we are currently debating a fee-based message
> > board instead of free membership.
> >
> > My personal opinion (though of course this would be Mr. Still and Mr.
> > Bergman's decision) is that having a "subscription" list would be very hard
> > to manage. If someone who has provided valuable responses (e.g. a Steve
> > Adams) doesn't pay his fee, do you immediately unsubscribe him from the
> > list? Do you prevent him from posting an answer? What's the grace period
> > for non-payment of fees? Would there be a trial period, or would you have
> > to pay before you can even see what the list is like? Paying before you can
> > see the content would diminish new membership, and new membership is
> > essential to the survival of a list such as this one. If you have a free
> > introductory period, I could sign up with a different "free" e-mail (e.g.
> > hotmail) every month and never pay. Only the "honest" people would pay,
> > which would end up being the same as asking for voluntary donations.
> > Another issue - how many people would go try out another "free" list?
> > Charging a fee may mean the demise of this list. I think that the list is
> > worth a modest fee, but what percentage of the membership will think so?
> > What if a person has paid for membership, but is posting messages
> > disruptive to the list (e.g. spam or insults.) Do you refund their fee when
> > you remove them from the list? Do they have more rights as a "paying
> > customer"? How about the archives? Would you have to pay to see them? What
> > about people that always ask questions, but never answer any? Would they be
> > charged more? Would some of our "experts" become resentful since they are
> > paying Mr. Bergman and giving out more information than they are receiving?
> > I can very well imagine a person thinking "why should I give out free
> > answers when Mr. Bergman 'profits' from my expertise?" (Of course I realize
> > that there is very little, if any, 'profit' involved, but some people may
> > not be convinced of that.)
> >
> > These are all difficult questions that would be faced by the person
> > maintaining the list. Without charging enough to make the list profitable,
> > it might not be worth the headache.
>
> 
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="Attachment: 1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Description:
> 
> - end returned message -
>
> ---
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jared Still
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Charlie Mengler
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Dejam, Ruth]

Jared,

You are so incredibly lucky.  I work for VoiceStream - a bazillion
duhvelopers and DB-ehs?.

~Ruth

Chaos, panic, and disorder - My work here is done!

-Original Message-
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Just to add to my previous comment:

I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.

The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
DBA in database related matters.

Not a duhveloper in the bunch.

Ya gotta love it!

Jared

On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
>
> Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
>
> And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
> "Thomas, Kevin"
>  list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping
the
> list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> Please respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
> we
> all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range
of
> topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> application if your lives depended on it...
>
> (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
> wait for fireworks)
>
>
> "hit any user to continue"
> __
>
> Kevin Thomas
> Technical Analyst
> Deregulation Services
> Calanais Ltd.
> (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> Tel: 0141 568 2377
> Fax: 0141 568 2366
> http://www.calanais.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers
who
>
> make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
> we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
> :)
>
> From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
>
> under-worked
>
> >
> >  <>
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> >  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
>
> you
>
> >than I
> >
> >  > realized.
> >  >
> >  > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> >  > so many emails
> >  > about
> >  > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right
>
> now.
>
> >  --
> >  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >  --
> >  Author:
> >INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >  Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
>
> 538-5051
>
> >  San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
Mailing
> >Lists
>
> 
>
> >  To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
>
> message
>
> >  to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
and
>
> in
>
> >  the message BODY, inclu

Re: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rachel Carmichael]

if 40 is small, is 16 microscopic? (and of that 16, 5 are consultants)


>From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800
>
>
>Just to add to my previous comment:
>
>I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.
>
>The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
>I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
>un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
>DBA in database related matters.
>
>Not a duhveloper in the bunch.
>
>Ya gotta love it!
>
>Jared
>
>On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> > Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
> >
> > Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> > so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
> >
> > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> > but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
> >
> > Jared
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Thomas, Kevin"
> > of
> > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> > Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping 
>the
> > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> > Please respond to
> > ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> > couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie 
>(and
> > we
> > all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range 
>of
> > topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> > guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> > application if your lives depended on it...
> >
> > (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, 
>and
> > wait for fireworks)
> >
> >
> > "hit any user to continue"
> > __
> >
> > Kevin Thomas
> > Technical Analyst
> > Deregulation Services
> > Calanais Ltd.
> > (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> > Tel: 0141 568 2377
> > Fax: 0141 568 2366
> > http://www.calanais.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> > no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers 
>who
> >
> > make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen 
>when
> > we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> > >
> > >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> > >
> > >: )
> > >
> > >Patrice Boivin
> > >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> > >
> > >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> > >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> > >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> > >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> > >
> > >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  -Original Message-
> > >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> > >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >
> > >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> > >
> > >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
> >
> > under-worked
> >
> > >
> > >  <>
> > >
> > >  > -Original Message-
> > >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> > >  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
> >
> > you
> >
> > >than I
> > >
> > >  > realized.
> > >  >
> > >  > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> > >  > so many emails
> > >  > about
> > >  > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right
> >
> > now.
> >
> > >  --
> > >  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > >  --
> > >  Author:
> > >INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >  Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
> >
> > 538-5051
> >
> > >  San Diego, California 

Datawarehouse suggestions?

[Rachel Carmichael]

Okay, first the rant they want me to build a new database to hold logs 
of every time someone hits a page on our website or uses one of the 
functions on the site.  Without a new server or disk, on a box that 
currently holds the OLTP database, on a disk array that is RAID 5 and that 
EMC wants to take BACK disks from. In other words, they want magic.  Where 
did I leave that rabbit and hat?

end rant, here's the setup:

Conservative estimate says that one of the two main tables (at least for 
now) will grow to a GB in a year or two, the other will hit 500M in that 
timeframe. Rough estimates of # of rows is 273M for the first table, 70M for 
the second over 2 years. Rows are < 200 bytes at max.  There will be several 
small lookup tables and the number of logging tables will increase over 
time.

They are NOT talking about purging data, ever. And we are hoping that the 
volume INCREASES, not decreases or remains the same, which means the space 
estimates are no more realistic than throwing a dart at a board and picking 
a number.

Oh yeah, did I mention that they want this to be a reporting database for 
external customers (read revenue stream) and want these external people to 
be able to query on any combination of columns -- so they want indexes on 
EVERY column.

I will have a nightly maintenance window for loads of prior day's data. I'm 
thinking to do a shutdown, change the init.ora to tune for heavy batch, 
startup, drop indexes, load data, recreate indexes, shutdown, backup, 
startup with init.ora tuned for querying.


question:

I've always worked on either batch reporting databases or OLTP, this will be 
the first semi, sort of data warehouse for me. Advice please on how to build 
this, as I am doing this one from scratch and can plan it.

I'm thinking:

database will be 8.1.7, Solaris 2.7

rbs and temp tablespaces as LMTs, remaining tablespaces dictionary-managed

db_block_size 16K

a "large table" tablespace with initial/next at 10M
a "large index" tablespace as above

a "small table" tablespace with initial/next at 16K
a "small index" tablespace as above

possibly partitioning (I have to check our licenses) on the timestamp field.

Any suggestions, gotchas, "this is WRONG, here's how to do it" comments?

Thanks

Rachel


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
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USE_HASH hint

[Greg Moore]

Does anyone know why a USE_HASH hint that's properly coded might not work?
Without it my query uses nested loops, but with it the plan changes to
sort-merge, not a hash join like I want.

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Author: Greg Moore
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sqlldr80- error

[Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran]

Hi gurus,

Greetings.

c:\> sqlldr80 userid=msalah/msalah@qtel control=c:\test.ctl

ORA-12203: TNS:unable to connect destination
SQL*Loader-704: Internal error: ulconnect : OCIServerAttach [-1]

But am able to connect with SQL*Plus with the same username/password.

Why it's showing this error, then?.

Am using oracle 8.0.4, on Win NT.

Rgds,
Nirmal.
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Nirmal Kumar  Muthu Kumaran
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