Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
On Thursday 01 August 2002 09:45, Fink, Dan wrote: Case in point, many databases with few dbas. Logging in each morning to each database and checking status and metrics is very inefficient. By the time all the databases are checked, the day is over. This leaves no time to diagnose and repair problems. Scheduled jobs (cron/AT/dbms_job) that query the database/logs and send email is more effecient. At this point you have a tool. A monitoring tool, properly architected and configured, can assist greatly by allowing the dbas to focus on preventing problems and not wasting time determining that there is nothing to worry about. Dan, Advantages of rolling your own: * they do what you want, and only what you want * if your needs change, you can modify them * you don't have to deal with tech support to fix your tools * you have to learn how stuff works to monitor it Well, that last bullet point seems to be temporary with me, I seem to forget stuff after not being close to it for awhile. That also serves to point out what a disconnect GUI tools are. shameless_self_promotion You want some tools? Reserve your copy of Perl for Oracle DBA's. :) /shameless_self_promotion Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
If I may add one more... * upgrades (database, OS, monitoring tool) are virtually painless. Except for a few path changes and/or a few query changes for v$ or DBA_ tables. Good luck upgrading OEM in place on the same machine AND maintinaining all your scheduled jobs without interruption. Which reminds me of another one: * cost Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/02/02 12:59PM On Thursday 01 August 2002 09:45, Fink, Dan wrote: Case in point, many databases with few dbas. Logging in each morning to each database and checking status and metrics is very inefficient. By the time all the databases are checked, the day is over. This leaves no time to diagnose and repair problems. Scheduled jobs (cron/AT/dbms_job) that query the database/logs and send email is more effecient. At this point you have a tool. A monitoring tool, properly architected and configured, can assist greatly by allowing the dbas to focus on preventing problems and not wasting time determining that there is nothing to worry about. Dan, Advantages of rolling your own: * they do what you want, and only what you want * if your needs change, you can modify them * you don't have to deal with tech support to fix your tools * you have to learn how stuff works to monitor it Well, that last bullet point seems to be temporary with me, I seem to forget stuff after not being close to it for awhile. That also serves to point out what a disconnect GUI tools are. shameless_self_promotion You want some tools? Reserve your copy of Perl for Oracle DBA's. :) /shameless_self_promotion Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Hey Jared, When the book is coming out, I am waiting with my credit card on hand ... Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L shameless_self_promotion You want some tools? Reserve your copy of Perl for Oracle DBA's. :) /shameless_self_promotion Jared *This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you.*2
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Jared, I agree with your advantages. I am a big believer in the last point. If you don't know how stuff works, you are helpless in the absence of the tool (I'm dealing with this frustration right now...not me, but someone else who can't live without a certain tool). I am a big believer in figuring out how things work (a few on the list can vouch for me on that one...), but it is not always the most economical method to manage many systems. There comes a point where you don't need to reinvent the wheel and update it for each new release. I don't have access to the advance releases and all platforms of the oracle server, so I am limited in what I can do, even if I had the time. Any tool, whether it is GUI or TUI (like a shell script that runs in a cron and emails), can cause disconnect. The fault lies not in the tool, but in the user. Tools don't cause disconnects, People do... Dan Waiting for Perl for Oracle DBA's to hit the shelves at SoftPro Fink -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Thursday 01 August 2002 09:45, Fink, Dan wrote: Case in point, many databases with few dbas. Logging in each morning to each database and checking status and metrics is very inefficient. By the time all the databases are checked, the day is over. This leaves no time to diagnose and repair problems. Scheduled jobs (cron/AT/dbms_job) that query the database/logs and send email is more effecient. At this point you have a tool. A monitoring tool, properly architected and configured, can assist greatly by allowing the dbas to focus on preventing problems and not wasting time determining that there is nothing to worry about. Dan, Advantages of rolling your own: * they do what you want, and only what you want * if your needs change, you can modify them * you don't have to deal with tech support to fix your tools * you have to learn how stuff works to monitor it Well, that last bullet point seems to be temporary with me, I seem to forget stuff after not being close to it for awhile. That also serves to point out what a disconnect GUI tools are. shameless_self_promotion You want some tools? Reserve your copy of Perl for Oracle DBA's. :) /shameless_self_promotion Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
SoftPro doesn't seem to know about it yet. However, Bookpool.com, Amazon.com, Powells.com and of course, Ora.com all seem to know about it. Jared Fink, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/02/2002 02:28 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Jared, I agree with your advantages. I am a big believer in the last point. If you don't know how stuff works, you are helpless in the absence of the tool (I'm dealing with this frustration right now...not me, but someone else who can't live without a certain tool). I am a big believer in figuring out how things work (a few on the list can vouch for me on that one...), but it is not always the most economical method to manage many systems. There comes a point where you don't need to reinvent the wheel and update it for each new release. I don't have access to the advance releases and all platforms of the oracle server, so I am limited in what I can do, even if I had the time. Any tool, whether it is GUI or TUI (like a shell script that runs in a cron and emails), can cause disconnect. The fault lies not in the tool, but in the user. Tools don't cause disconnects, People do... Dan Waiting for Perl for Oracle DBA's to hit the shelves at SoftPro Fink -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Thursday 01 August 2002 09:45, Fink, Dan wrote: Case in point, many databases with few dbas. Logging in each morning to each database and checking status and metrics is very inefficient. By the time all the databases are checked, the day is over. This leaves no time to diagnose and repair problems. Scheduled jobs (cron/AT/dbms_job) that query the database/logs and send email is more effecient. At this point you have a tool. A monitoring tool, properly architected and configured, can assist greatly by allowing the dbas to focus on preventing problems and not wasting time determining that there is nothing to worry about. Dan, Advantages of rolling your own: * they do what you want, and only what you want * if your needs change, you can modify them * you don't have to deal with tech support to fix your tools * you have to learn how stuff works to monitor it Well, that last bullet point seems to be temporary with me, I seem to forget stuff after not being close to it for awhile. That also serves to point out what a disconnect GUI tools are. shameless_self_promotion You want some tools? Reserve your copy of Perl for Oracle DBA's. :) /shameless_self_promotion Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Dan, you as someone who figures out how things work? Nah :) I'm STILL trying to understand the deep detail you went into on the undo segments. Okay my two cents on this. Tools are great IF you know their limitations. And the only way to know the limitations is to know how to do it manually. For years I supported production systems. While in the office, I had the advantage of many of the monitoring tools. If there was a problem in the middle of the night, the dial-up line didn't really support my running the tool I also don't always have the luxury of time to invent that wheel. Too few DBAs with too many projects means I'll take whatever tools I can get. On the other hand, I have a developer here, senior person, who moans and whines when she can't use SQL Navigator or PL/SQL Debugger to write code and test it. I mean, you CAN use SQL*Plus to do this but you'd think we were putting her on the rack when she has to. Rachel --- Fink, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jared, I agree with your advantages. I am a big believer in the last point. If you don't know how stuff works, you are helpless in the absence of the tool (I'm dealing with this frustration right now...not me, but someone else who can't live without a certain tool). I am a big believer in figuring out how things work (a few on the list can vouch for me on that one...), but it is not always the most economical method to manage many systems. There comes a point where you don't need to reinvent the wheel and update it for each new release. I don't have access to the advance releases and all platforms of the oracle server, so I am limited in what I can do, even if I had the time. Any tool, whether it is GUI or TUI (like a shell script that runs in a cron and emails), can cause disconnect. The fault lies not in the tool, but in the user. Tools don't cause disconnects, People do... Dan Waiting for Perl for Oracle DBA's to hit the shelves at SoftPro Fink -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Thursday 01 August 2002 09:45, Fink, Dan wrote: Case in point, many databases with few dbas. Logging in each morning to each database and checking status and metrics is very inefficient. By the time all the databases are checked, the day is over. This leaves no time to diagnose and repair problems. Scheduled jobs (cron/AT/dbms_job) that query the database/logs and send email is more effecient. At this point you have a tool. A monitoring tool, properly architected and configured, can assist greatly by allowing the dbas to focus on preventing problems and not wasting time determining that there is nothing to worry about. Dan, Advantages of rolling your own: * they do what you want, and only what you want * if your needs change, you can modify them * you don't have to deal with tech support to fix your tools * you have to learn how stuff works to monitor it Well, that last bullet point seems to be temporary with me, I seem to forget stuff after not being close to it for awhile. That also serves to point out what a disconnect GUI tools are. shameless_self_promotion You want some tools? Reserve your copy of Perl for Oracle DBA's. :) /shameless_self_promotion Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
The right way to start working with Oracle is GUI, which hides some complexity of DB. Then usage should smoothly include/move to nice user-friendly command-line user interface, which allows greater flexibility, speed, control... whatever pluses there are. But the point is that OCP's supposed to be measurement for good professional experience which, in my opinion may not include GUI usage, but must include command-line tools. Especially that not every GUI is available for free and is accesible on any site. This point directs to another conclusion - Oracle wants us to buy this GUI staff. Once again confirm OCP programm is all about Oracle Corp. and it's money and not about us, our employers, client... whatever. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:58 PM Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
I disagree with you guys. I am using the Database Configuration Assistance and Dbastudio a lot and had no problem with them. As for the tnsnames you can use name server or do as we do and start checking out the OID for central repository of databases. The GUI tools are a little :-) on the heavy side but they do their functions. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:58 PM Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Nothing wrong with tools! ;P I'll shut up now, before I get swatted by DG for piping my sales critter head up above the crowd : Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -Original Message- Jahnke Sent: 01 August 2002 16:33 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello I do not state that Oracle's GUI tools are all unusable. The point is that the developers basically have to take of their instances without having that much Oracle DBA know how. They don't even want to deal OID and the like. But to have the same level of comfortableness that for example SQL Server (or DB2 UDB) offer (with GUI tool support) out of the box, you have to setup a bunch of extra stuff on Oracle (like OID). That's what annoys them. And I a) don't have the time and b) are not supposed to spend time on setting up OID (or anything else) for them. Another valid example would be the fact that on DB2 UDB and SQL Server, you have visual support for explain plan. Not that it makes much of a difference (same content, different presentation), but people like that GUI stuff and that leads to them regarding Oracle as stone-age-out-of-date stuff, especially (or only) if their used to work in a Windoze environment. Regards, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Behalten Sie den Ueberblick - mit dem neuen BasicOverView, unserer Seminaruebersicht fuer das 2. Halbjahr 2002. Sie haben noch kein Exemplar? Schreiben Sie eine E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] oder rufen Sie uns an unter 0 18 03 / 73 64 62 73! Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. August 2002 16:08 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA I disagree with you guys. I am using the Database Configuration Assistance and Dbastudio a lot and had no problem with them. As for the tnsnames you can use name server or do as we do and start checking out the OID for central repository of databases. The GUI tools are a little :-) on the heavy side but they do their functions. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:58 PM Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
As with any tool, they are very valuable when properly used and when you know the limitations. The key is that you are able to function without them, though perhaps not as effeciently. Case in point, many databases with few dbas. Logging in each morning to each database and checking status and metrics is very inefficient. By the time all the databases are checked, the day is over. This leaves no time to diagnose and repair problems. Scheduled jobs (cron/AT/dbms_job) that query the database/logs and send email is more effecient. At this point you have a tool. A monitoring tool, properly architected and configured, can assist greatly by allowing the dbas to focus on preventing problems and not wasting time determining that there is nothing to worry about. Any tool is limited by the original design. The tool monitors, reports, allows only certain conditions and actions. How many tools still focus on buffer cache hit ratio? To the person with a hammer, every problem is a nail. When confronted with a phillips-head screw, the hammer is less than useful. No tool is a substitute for knowledge or skill. In fact, it can prevent the acquisition of knowledge. I have also seen people so dependent on a single tool that they cannot handle any situation that the tool does not directly address. I always tell junior dbas to learn sql and sqlplus. Why? Sqlplus will be on every oracle database server. It is the least common denominator. OEM is nice, but what happens when you can't use the network to attach to the db server and you have to use good old command line? I'd say that any tool is useful if: A) it promotes effeciency in your daily tasks and B) you are able to properly deal with situations in the absence of the tool. Just my $.02. Dan Fink -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
where's the mallet? wack-away! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Nothing wrong with tools! ;P I'll shut up now, before I get swatted by DG for piping my sales critter head up above the crowd : Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -Original Message- Jahnke Sent: 01 August 2002 16:33 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello I do not state that Oracle's GUI tools are all unusable. The point is that the developers basically have to take of their instances without having that much Oracle DBA know how. They don't even want to deal OID and the like. But to have the same level of comfortableness that for example SQL Server (or DB2 UDB) offer (with GUI tool support) out of the box, you have to setup a bunch of extra stuff on Oracle (like OID). That's what annoys them. And I a) don't have the time and b) are not supposed to spend time on setting up OID (or anything else) for them. Another valid example would be the fact that on DB2 UDB and SQL Server, you have visual support for explain plan. Not that it makes much of a difference (same content, different presentation), but people like that GUI stuff and that leads to them regarding Oracle as stone-age-out-of-date stuff, especially (or only) if their used to work in a Windoze environment. Regards, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Behalten Sie den Ueberblick - mit dem neuen BasicOverView, unserer Seminaruebersicht fuer das 2. Halbjahr 2002. Sie haben noch kein Exemplar? Schreiben Sie eine E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] oder rufen Sie uns an unter 0 18 03 / 73 64 62 73! Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. August 2002 16:08 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA I disagree with you guys. I am using the Database Configuration Assistance and Dbastudio a lot and had no problem with them. As for the tnsnames you can use name server or do as we do and start checking out the OID for central repository of databases. The GUI tools are a little :-) on the heavy side but they do their functions. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:58 PM Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
What? You mean you didn't instantly bring up Net8 Assistant and show that SQL Server clown what a REAL GUI TOOL works like? Kevin Kennedy First Point Energy Corporation If you take RAC out of Oracle you get OLE! What can this mean? Ducking and running for cover just as quick as I can 8-) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: kkennedy INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Currently IBM is trumpeting its lead in the database market over Oracle. IBM is also proudly boasting of its automated database management features. I think it is a safe bet that Oracle is working feverishly on its own automated database management features. MS SQL and its easy-to-use GUI interfaces is so last year. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello I do not state that Oracle's GUI tools are all unusable. The point is that the developers basically have to take of their instances without having that much Oracle DBA know how. They don't even want to deal OID and the like. But to have the same level of comfortableness that for example SQL Server (or DB2 UDB) offer (with GUI tool support) out of the box, you have to setup a bunch of extra stuff on Oracle (like OID). That's what annoys them. And I a) don't have the time and b) are not supposed to spend time on setting up OID (or anything else) for them. Another valid example would be the fact that on DB2 UDB and SQL Server, you have visual support for explain plan. Not that it makes much of a difference (same content, different presentation), but people like that GUI stuff and that leads to them regarding Oracle as stone-age-out-of-date stuff, especially (or only) if their used to work in a Windoze environment. Regards, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Behalten Sie den Ueberblick - mit dem neuen BasicOverView, unserer Seminaruebersicht fuer das 2. Halbjahr 2002. Sie haben noch kein Exemplar? Schreiben Sie eine E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] oder rufen Sie uns an unter 0 18 03 / 73 64 62 73! Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. August 2002 16:08 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA I disagree with you guys. I am using the Database Configuration Assistance and Dbastudio a lot and had no problem with them. As for the tnsnames you can use name server or do as we do and start checking out the OID for central repository of databases. The GUI tools are a little :-) on the heavy side but they do their functions. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:58 PM Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Title: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Right. He was too embarrassed. -Original Message- From: kkennedy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA What? You mean you didn't instantly bring up Net8 Assistant and show that SQL Server clown what a REAL GUI TOOL works like? Kevin Kennedy First Point Energy Corporation If you take RAC out of Oracle you get OLE! What can this mean? Ducking and running for cover just as quick as I can 8-) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: kkennedy INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Title: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA You guys are too funny. For real - so last year. -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Currently IBM is trumpeting its lead in the database market over Oracle. IBM is also proudly boasting of its automated database management features. I think it is a safe bet that Oracle is working feverishly on its own automated database management features. MS SQL and its easy-to-use GUI interfaces is so last year. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello I do not state that Oracle's GUI tools are all unusable. The point is that the developers basically have to take of their instances without having that much Oracle DBA know how. They don't even want to deal OID and the like. But to have the same level of comfortableness that for example SQL Server (or DB2 UDB) offer (with GUI tool support) out of the box, you have to setup a bunch of extra stuff on Oracle (like OID). That's what annoys them. And I a) don't have the time and b) are not supposed to spend time on setting up OID (or anything else) for them. Another valid example would be the fact that on DB2 UDB and SQL Server, you have visual support for explain plan. Not that it makes much of a difference (same content, different presentation), but people like that GUI stuff and that leads to them regarding Oracle as stone-age-out-of-date stuff, especially (or only) if their used to work in a Windoze environment. Regards, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Behalten Sie den Ueberblick - mit dem neuen BasicOverView, unserer Seminaruebersicht fuer das 2. Halbjahr 2002. Sie haben noch kein Exemplar? Schreiben Sie eine E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] oder rufen Sie uns an unter 0 18 03 / 73 64 62 73! Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. August 2002 16:08 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA I disagree with you guys. I am using the Database Configuration Assistance and Dbastudio a lot and had no problem with them. As for the tnsnames you can use name server or do as we do and start checking out the OID for central repository of databases. The GUI tools are a little :-) on the heavy side but they do their functions. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:58 PM Hi That's true. You should at least have the option to use (usable;) GUI tools. Just yesterday, I had a developer (who usually works with SQL Server) asking me wether he always has to mess around with this client thing ... *what client thing ?*. Actually, he meant the tnsnames.ora. After a short monologue about Oracle Names and OID, he just popped up some SQL Server GUI stuff, that displayed a catalog of all DB servers, all databases, no files to maintain, no nothing, just works. So, what does one say then to justify the Oracle way ? Not much. Since usability influences decision makers (and younger developers) a lot, Oracle might loose here with the You don't know all the command line tool options and SQL statements by heart ? - You're too stupid to work with Oracle, go ask your local Oracle guru or study your $%§ss off and get certified. Regards Stefan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Unfortunately, we have no choice but to use the java-infested, half-baked ruinStaller. Don't even get me started about the DataBase Cremation Assistant! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:25 PM ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Title: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA You're on target there. Don't start. It's not just a job it's an adventure. I must say that I used the DBCA twice. After cleaning up the mess it made the first time, I just had it create the scripts for me. After 'fixing' the scripts to do it right and give me what I wanted, I've since been able to skip that particular Gooey. Dan. -Original Message- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Unfortunately, we have no choice but to use the java-infested, half-baked ruinStaller. Don't even get me started about the DataBase Cremation Assistant! Don Granaman [OraSaurus]
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Unfortunately, MS SQL Server's GUI tools are better in that it is actually useful and it works. How come? Most of my younger peers prefer to use SQL Server (never mind it's shortcomings) simply because it's more GUI than Oracle - hence easier Oracle is losing the future here by screwing up it's GUI tools (my opinion). How I wish TOAD could come to the rescue. ltiu On Wednesday 31 July 2002 23:18, Straub, Dan wrote: You're on target there. Don't start. It's not just a job it's an adventure. I must say that I used the DBCA twice. After cleaning up the mess it made the first time, I just had it create the scripts for me. After 'fixing' the scripts to do it right and give me what I wanted, I've since been able to skip that particular Gooey. Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
When people pass exams they tend to say the exam was easy. When they fail the exam they tend to say either I didn't study enough or It was hard, that one! Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now). Also heard an Oracle trainer say that the 9i exams are easier then the 8i exams but do not now if this is true or not. Hope this is of help, Neil. -Original Message- Sent: 25 July 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Also, isn't Oracle now REQUIRING you to go to THEIR classes to get your certification? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 14:19, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up enough to whip out a couple of tests, but once you got past them, you'd probably have to do the other tests the hard way -- study for them. I would rate the individual classes as more likely to help you through the OCP, one test at a time. Dennis Williams DBA, 20% OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July 26th) is the last day of our Summer Promotion that entitles you to save 50% off our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp. That's right, save $1,749. We have only a handful of remaining seats for our Live, Online, Instructor-led course, so call us and register today!! In case you have lost the previous email I sent, here's the facts: Because the classes must go on...whether there are only 5 or as many as 15 students enrolled...we've decided to allow you the opportunity to register for a seat in one of our upcoming courses for 50% OFF. That's right, instead of the normal $3,499 registration fee for our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp, you can register for only $1,749. Here's what you get: - A 5 week blended eLearning program that includes Instructor Led Training in our Virtual Classroom environment. That's right, you simply need to login to the Virtual Classroom at the designated time to receive Live, Instructor Led Training...without having to leave your home or office! - The course includes training for all 5 Oracle8i OCP DBA exams, plus as a FREE BONUS we are including our Oracle9i New Features for Administrators course that will prepare you for the Oracle9i Upgrade exam. That's a === message truncated === = Pete Barnett Lead Database Administrator The Regence Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Peter Barnett INET
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM When people pass exams they tend to say the exam was easy. When they fail the exam they tend to say either I didn't study enough or It was hard, that one! Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now). Also heard an Oracle trainer say that the 9i exams are easier then the 8i exams but do not now if this is true or not. Hope this is of help, Neil. -Original Message- Sent: 25 July 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Also, isn't Oracle now REQUIRING you to go to THEIR classes to get your certification? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 14:19, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up enough to whip out a couple of tests, but once you got past them, you'd probably have to do the other tests the hard way -- study for them. I would rate the individual classes as more likely to help you through the OCP, one test at a time. Dennis Williams DBA, 20% OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July 26th) is the last day of our Summer Promotion that entitles you to save 50% off our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp. That's right, save $1,749. We have only a handful of remaining seats for our Live, Online, Instructor-led course, so call us and register today!! In case you have lost the previous email I sent, here's the facts: Because the classes must go on...whether there are only 5 or as many as 15 students enrolled...we've decided to allow you the opportunity to register for a seat in one of our upcoming courses for 50% OFF. That's right, instead of the normal $3,499 registration fee for our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp, you can register for only $1,749. Here's what you get: - A 5 week blended eLearning program that includes Instructor Led Training in our Virtual Classroom environment. That's right, you simply need to login to the Virtual Classroom at the designated time to receive Live, Instructor Led Training...without having to leave your home or office! - The course includes training for all 5 Oracle8i OCP DBA exams, plus as a FREE BONUS we are including our Oracle9i New Features for Administrators course
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Yes, i seem to recall whilst on the crashes, dumps and corruptions seminar that it was mentioned that Oracle are moving away from command line tools in favour of GUI tools in much the same way that server manager is no longer available - does anyone know if this is truly the case? Will command line tools go the way of the dodo? I do 99% of my work (be it serious or not) from the command line and would truly miss the choice if it were taken away. Lewis Bishop --- Barclays Enable/ISS/OPTS - Oracle OCP Database Consultant Phone - 020 8298 3418 Mobile - 07950 380857 Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: 30 July 2002 15:28 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This header confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Corporate IT THE WOOLWICH -- Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM When people pass exams they tend to say the exam was easy. When they fail the exam they tend to say either I didn't study enough or It was hard, that one! Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now). Also heard an Oracle trainer say that the 9i exams are easier then the 8i exams but do not now if this is true or not. Hope this is of help, Neil. -Original Message- Sent: 25 July 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Also, isn't Oracle now REQUIRING you to go to THEIR classes to get your certification? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 14:19, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up enough to whip out a couple of tests, but once you got past them, you'd probably have to do the other tests the hard way -- study for them. I would rate the individual classes as more likely to help you through the OCP, one test at a time. Dennis Williams DBA, 20% OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July 26th) is the last day of our Summer Promotion that entitles you to save 50% off our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp. That's right, save $1,749. We have only a handful of remaining seats for our Live, Online, Instructor-led course, so call us and register today!! In case you have lost the previous email I sent, here's the facts: Because the classes must go
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
I don't know the answer to your question. But I prefer the command line. You know exactly what is going on whereas with GUI tools you don't know what is going on behind the scenes. Most Unix admin people I know also prefer the command line. My 0.02 Euros worth, Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:20 AM Yes, i seem to recall whilst on the crashes, dumps and corruptions seminar that it was mentioned that Oracle are moving away from command line tools in favour of GUI tools in much the same way that server manager is no longer available - does anyone know if this is truly the case? Will command line tools go the way of the dodo? I do 99% of my work (be it serious or not) from the command line and would truly miss the choice if it were taken away. Lewis Bishop --- Barclays Enable/ISS/OPTS - Oracle OCP Database Consultant Phone - 020 8298 3418 Mobile - 07950 380857 Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: 30 July 2002 15:28 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This header confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Corporate IT THE WOOLWICH -- Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM When people pass exams they tend to say the exam was easy. When they fail the exam they tend to say either I didn't study enough or It was hard, that one! Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now). Also heard an Oracle trainer say that the 9i exams are easier then the 8i exams but do not now if this is true or not. Hope this is of help, Neil. -Original Message- Sent: 25 July 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Also, isn't Oracle now REQUIRING you to go to THEIR classes to get your certification? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 14:19, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up enough to whip out a couple of tests, but once you got past them, you'd probably have to do the other tests the hard way -- study for them. I would rate the individual classes as more likely to help you through the OCP, one test at a time. Dennis Williams DBA, 20% OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
GUI tools are simply a front-end presentation layer for SQL commands. GUI tools do not bypass the SQL command-line layer; they only abstract it. Command-line tools (such as SQL*Plus) use the same API as the GUI tools, but simply do a lot less abstraction on the presentation. Command-line tools will never go the way of the dodo, because they are part of the diagnostic process for GUI tools, if nothing else. Also, since the days of ISPF and JCL (anybody recognize those), on platforms from OS/360 through Windows, it has proven impossible to wean users away from command-line, especially for batch processing... The functionality for Server Manager command-line was migrated in it's entirety into SQL*Plus (near as I can tell, including ORADEBUG), so Oracle eliminated svrmgrl not so much as a way of deprecating command-line utilities in general, but rather to consolidate redundant products... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:20 AM Yes, i seem to recall whilst on the crashes, dumps and corruptions seminar that it was mentioned that Oracle are moving away from command line tools in favour of GUI tools in much the same way that server manager is no longer available - does anyone know if this is truly the case? Will command line tools go the way of the dodo? I do 99% of my work (be it serious or not) from the command line and would truly miss the choice if it were taken away. Lewis Bishop --- Barclays Enable/ISS/OPTS - Oracle OCP Database Consultant Phone - 020 8298 3418 Mobile - 07950 380857 Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: 30 July 2002 15:28 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This header confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Corporate IT THE WOOLWICH -- Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM When people pass exams they tend to say the exam was easy. When they fail the exam they tend to say either I didn't study enough or It was hard, that one! Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now). Also heard an Oracle trainer say that the 9i exams are easier then the 8i exams but do not now if this is true or not. Hope this is of help, Neil. -Original Message- Sent: 25 July 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Also, isn't Oracle now REQUIRING you to go to THEIR classes to get your certification? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 14:19, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up enough to whip out a couple of tests, but once you got past them, you'd probably have to do the other tests the hard way -- study for them. I would rate the individual classes as more likely to help you through the OCP, one test at a time. Dennis Williams DBA, 20% OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) Gaja Vaidyanatha has recently moved to Oracle, and server tools are now his responsibility. I challenged him to turn OEM into something I would actually be willing to use. :) Jared Alexandre Gorbatchev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 07:28 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Title: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan.
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
I fit that category as well. I talked to him last night he's gonna try :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) Gaja Vaidyanatha has recently moved to Oracle, and server tools are now his responsibility. I challenged him to turn OEM into something I would actually be willing to use. :) Jared Alexandre Gorbatchev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 07:28 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Being a hardcore SQL*Plus hacker as well I was amazed to find a freebie on the net that I actually liked and used. It will work with any JDBC accessible database (being written itself in java). All you have to do is load your JDBC driver of choice. It also provides a panel for entering SQL commands directly (for you hardcore types). The name of the tool is DBVisualizer and is available at the following URL: http://www.minq.se/products/dbvis/index.html --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) Gaja Vaidyanatha has recently moved to Oracle, and server tools are now his responsibility. I challenged him to turn OEM into something I would actually be willing to use. :) Jared Alexandre Gorbatchev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 07:28 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bill Pass INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Tim: I take exception to the age thing here. Yes, I remember rewriting the MVS procs for Oracle's MVS implementation because they never checked to see if MPM was running in the background task manager of SDSF. Add to it that I wrote (helped Oracle) a complete TSO Dialog Manager interface to all of the Oracle tools that ran on the mainframe. GUI tools hide the work involved in solving the problem Go Command Line!!! Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Product Architect Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:38 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA GUI tools are simply a front-end presentation layer for SQL commands. GUI tools do not bypass the SQL command-line layer; they only abstract it. Command-line tools (such as SQL*Plus) use the same API as the GUI tools, but simply do a lot less abstraction on the presentation. Command-line tools will never go the way of the dodo, because they are part of the diagnostic process for GUI tools, if nothing else. Also, since the days of ISPF and JCL (anybody recognize those), on platforms from OS/360 through Windows, it has proven impossible to wean users away from command-line, especially for batch processing... The functionality for Server Manager command-line was migrated in it's entirety into SQL*Plus (near as I can tell, including ORADEBUG), so Oracle eliminated svrmgrl not so much as a way of deprecating command-line utilities in general, but rather to consolidate redundant products... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:20 AM Yes, i seem to recall whilst on the crashes, dumps and corruptions seminar that it was mentioned that Oracle are moving away from command line tools in favour of GUI tools in much the same way that server manager is no longer available - does anyone know if this is truly the case? Will command line tools go the way of the dodo? I do 99% of my work (be it serious or not) from the command line and would truly miss the choice if it were taken away. Lewis Bishop --- Barclays Enable/ISS/OPTS - Oracle OCP Database Consultant Phone - 020 8298 3418 Mobile - 07950 380857 Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: 30 July 2002 15:28 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This header confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Corporate IT THE WOOLWICH -- Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM When people pass exams they tend to say the exam was easy. When they fail the exam they tend to say either I didn't study enough or It was hard, that one! Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now). Also heard an Oracle trainer say that the 9i exams are easier then the 8i exams but do not now if this is true or not. Hope this is of help, Neil. -Original Message- Sent: 25 July 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Also, isn't Oracle now REQUIRING you to go to THEIR classes to get your certification? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 14:19, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Snip The functionality for Server Manager command-line was migrated in it's entirety into SQL*Plus (near as I can tell, including ORADEBUG), so Oracle eliminated svrmgrl not so much as a way of deprecating command-line utilities in general, but rather to consolidate redundant products... /snip Except you still can't select from V$AQ in sqlplus even in 9i... just a teeny little thing... but (per a dozen hits on metalink) it only works in server manager... ajw -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tim: I take exception to the age thing here. Yes, I remember rewriting the MVS procs for Oracle's MVS implementation because they never checked to see if MPM was running in the background task manager of SDSF. Add to it that I wrote (helped Oracle) a complete TSO Dialog Manager interface to all of the Oracle tools that ran on the mainframe. GUI tools hide the work involved in solving the problem Go Command Line!!! Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Product Architect Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:38 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA GUI tools are simply a front-end presentation layer for SQL commands. GUI tools do not bypass the SQL command-line layer; they only abstract it. Command-line tools (such as SQL*Plus) use the same API as the GUI tools, but simply do a lot less abstraction on the presentation. Command-line tools will never go the way of the dodo, because they are part of the diagnostic process for GUI tools, if nothing else. Also, since the days of ISPF and JCL (anybody recognize those), on platforms from OS/360 through Windows, it has proven impossible to wean users away from command-line, especially for batch processing... The functionality for Server Manager command-line was migrated in it's entirety into SQL*Plus (near as I can tell, including ORADEBUG), so Oracle eliminated svrmgrl not so much as a way of deprecating command-line utilities in general, but rather to consolidate redundant products... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:20 AM Yes, i seem to recall whilst on the crashes, dumps and corruptions seminar that it was mentioned that Oracle are moving away from command line tools in favour of GUI tools in much the same way that server manager is no longer available - does anyone know if this is truly the case? Will command line tools go the way of the dodo? I do 99% of my work (be it serious or not) from the command line and would truly miss the choice if it were taken away. Lewis Bishop --- Barclays Enable/ISS/OPTS - Oracle OCP Database Consultant Phone - 020 8298 3418 Mobile - 07950 380857 Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: 30 July 2002 15:28 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This header confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Corporate IT THE WOOLWICH -- Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM When people pass exams they tend to say the exam was easy. When they fail the exam they tend to say either I didn't study enough or It was hard, that one! Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
If anyone can... he might be able to.
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I fit that category as well. I talked to him last night he's gonna
try :)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools.
I fit that category. :)
Gaja Vaidyanatha has recently moved to Oracle, and server tools
are now his responsibility.
I challenged him to turn OEM into something I would actually
be willing to use. :)
Jared
Alexandre Gorbatchev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
07/30/2002 07:28 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year
Oracle veteran DBA
Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in
OCP
exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while
hardcore
DBAs might never use GUI tools.
Alexandre
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM
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RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Title: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA I'd like to add another free gui thats kind of neat, DataBee DBATool utility. You can find it at http://www.databee.com -Rich -Original Message- From: Bill Pass [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Being a hardcore SQL*Plus hacker as well I was amazed to find a freebie on the net that I actually liked and used. It will work with any JDBC accessible database (being written itself in java). All you have to do is load your JDBC driver of choice. It also provides a panel for entering SQL commands directly (for you hardcore types). The name of the tool is DBVisualizer and is available at the following URL: http://www.minq.se/products/dbvis/index.html --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) Gaja Vaidyanatha has recently moved to Oracle, and server tools are now his responsibility. I challenged him to turn OEM into something I would actually be willing to use. :) Jared Alexandre Gorbatchev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 07:28 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Oracle's politic is to make us using GUI tools. This is reflected in OCP exams, so I can conclude that for newbies exams become easier while hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. Alexandre - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:03 PM -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bill Pass INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
No, I use a hex editor and directly write the bits to disk. Isn't that the way everyone here does it? Jared Straub, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 10:25 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Hex editor? geez you youngsters have it soft, in MY day we ran magnets over the disks to encode the ones and zeros :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I use a hex editor and directly write the bits to disk. Isn't that the way everyone here does it? Jared Straub, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 10:25 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
coding? ha! I used to flip switches to load my programs directly into core memory! and then I had to read the results from the light console! up-hill both-ways in a snow-storm! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hex editor? geez you youngsters have it soft, in MY day we ran magnets over the disks to encode the ones and zeros :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I use a hex editor and directly write the bits to disk. Isn't that the way everyone here does it? Jared Straub, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 10:25 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Every single message I get on this post gets blocked: Can't tell you but how I am wondering what is being said! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The original message content contained a virus or was blocked due to blocking rules and has been removed. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
GROAN Here we go again. So who's gonna be the first one with the abacus joke this time? --Walt (who makes Rachel look like a spring chicken) Weaver Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hex editor? geez you youngsters have it soft, in MY day we ran magnets over the disks to encode the ones and zeros :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I use a hex editor and directly write the bits to disk. Isn't that the way everyone here does it? Jared Straub, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 10:25 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Who's got time for an abacus? It takes a lot of effort to chisel those bits into the stone tablets. Used to take a lot longer before I got my electric chisel 8-) Kevin Kennedy First Point Energy Corporation If you take RAC out of Oracle you get OLE! What can this mean? -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L GROAN Here we go again. So who's gonna be the first one with the abacus joke this time? --Walt (who makes Rachel look like a spring chicken) Weaver Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hex editor? geez you youngsters have it soft, in MY day we ran magnets over the disks to encode the ones and zeros :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I use a hex editor and directly write the bits to disk. Isn't that the way everyone here does it? Jared Straub, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 10:25 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: kkennedy INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
At least you had a light console. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L coding? ha! I used to flip switches to load my programs directly into core memory! and then I had to read the results from the light console! up-hill both-ways in a snow-storm! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hex editor? geez you youngsters have it soft, in MY day we ran magnets over the disks to encode the ones and zeros :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I use a hex editor and directly write the bits to disk. Isn't that the way everyone here does it? Jared Straub, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/2002 10:25 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Title: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Ha! I use to bang rocks together in sea water so that the sand could be used to make the first silicon chip 1,000,000 years later. Of course that was in my younger days.. Jerry Whittle ACIFICS DBA NCI Information Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 618-622-4145 -Original Message- From: kkennedy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Who's got time for an abacus? It takes a lot of effort to chisel those bits into the stone tablets. Used to take a lot longer before I got my electric chisel 8-) Kevin Kennedy First Point Energy Corporation If you take RAC out of Oracle you get OLE! What can this mean? -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:46 PM GROAN Here we go again. So who's gonna be the first one with the abacus joke this time? --Walt (who makes Rachel look like a spring chicken) Weaver Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:20 PM Hex editor? geez you youngsters have it soft, in MY day we ran magnets over the disks to encode the ones and zeros :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I use a hex editor and directly write the bits to disk. Isn't that the way everyone here does it? Jared Straub, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...hardcore DBAs might never use GUI tools. I fit that category. :) What about the OUI? Don't you use that? :) Dan.
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Funny, I just heard a seasoned Oracle consultant say that the 9i exams were considerably more difficult than the 8i exams. --- McBain, Neil SITI-ITDSEL314 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just completed my Oracle 8i OCP DBA using only ten years of experience and the Sybex books (thoroughly recommended, except Backup Recovery does not cover enough RMAN syntax). I believe if you sit the 9i OCP exams then you do have to attend one Oracle course (except if you had sat an Oracle 9i exam prior to a certain date this year), however you can sit the 8i exams and then the 9i upgrade exam without requiring the course (or I hope this is true, since I am studying for the upgrade exam now). Also heard an Oracle trainer say that the 9i exams are easier then the 8i exams but do not now if this is true or not. Hope this is of help, Neil. -Original Message- Sent: 25 July 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Also, isn't Oracle now REQUIRING you to go to THEIR classes to get your certification? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 14:19, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up enough to whip out a couple of tests, but once you got past them, you'd probably have to do the other tests the hard way -- study for them. I would rate the individual classes as more likely to help you through the OCP, one test at a time. Dennis Williams DBA, 20% OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July 26th) is the last day of our Summer Promotion that entitles you to save 50% off our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp. That's right, save $1,749. We have only a handful of remaining seats for our Live, Online, Instructor-led course, so call us and register today!! In case you have lost the previous email I sent, here's the facts: Because the classes must go on...whether there are only 5 or as many as 15 students enrolled...we've decided to allow you the opportunity to register for a seat in one of our upcoming courses for 50% OFF. That's right, instead of the normal $3,499 registration fee for our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp, you can register for only $1,749. Here's what you get: - A 5 week blended eLearning program that includes Instructor Led Training in our Virtual Classroom environment. That's right, you simply need to login to the Virtual Classroom at the designated time to receive Live, Instructor Led Training...without having to leave your home or office! - The course includes training for all 5 Oracle8i OCP DBA exams, plus as a FREE BONUS we are including our Oracle9i New Features for Administrators course that will prepare you for the Oracle9i Upgrade exam. That's a === message truncated === = Pete Barnett Lead Database Administrator The Regence Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Peter Barnett INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
every time I've gone to www.oracle.com and clicked oracle university lately, it hangs my browser (IE6). On 26 Jul 2002 at 4:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm. Good point. Anyone know how we can verify that if you take the 8i exams and pass you can just do the upgrade exam without the additional course? Is there a time when 8i exams will not be offered any more or any other time constraint and does any one know? ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Hi, the requirement for an instructor-led course is only for people wishing to gain the 9i DBA OCP credential from scratch. It's not required for people taking the 8i course, upgrading from 8i or those who've already taken an exam towards the 9i OCP credential. And the evidence is at http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/index.html?dba9i_ocpcoursereq.html regards, Mike Hately (9i OCP DBA since January =) ) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 26 July 2002 13:56To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Hmm. Good point. Anyone know how we can verify that if you take the 8i exams and pass you can just do the upgrade exam without the additional course? Is there a time when 8i exams will not be offered any more or any other time constraint and does any one know? This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. You should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you. Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426. England. Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1 1DP.
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
I had a friend of mine take it with mixed reactions. Basically they walk you through the Sybex books and answer questions. He found it useful but it in no way prepared him to take the tests. With 8 years of experience you might be better off just reading the Sybex books yourself. Also the Oracle Press OCP review books are really good as well. My advise would be save the money and go through the books yourself. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:53:43 -0800 Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July 26th) is the last day of our Summer Promotion that entitles you to save 50% off our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp. That's right, save $1,749. We have only a handful of remaining seats for our Live, Online, Instructor-led course, so call us and register today!! In case you have lost the previous email I sent, here's the facts: Because the classes must go on...whether there are only 5 or as many as 15 students enrolled...we've decided to allow you the opportunity to register for a seat in one of our upcoming courses for 50% OFF. That's right, instead of the normal $3,499 registration fee for our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp, you can register for only $1,749. Here's what you get: - A 5 week blended eLearning program that includes Instructor Led Training in our Virtual Classroom environment. That's right, you simply need to login to the Virtual Classroom at the designated time to receive Live, Instructor Led Training...without having to leave your home or office! - The course includes training for all 5 Oracle8i OCP DBA exams, plus as a FREE BONUS we are including our Oracle9i New Features for Administrators course that will prepare you for the Oracle9i Upgrade exam. That's a total of 6 courses! - Sybex and Oracle Press Exam Guides that cover the topics of all 6 exams - The Self Test Software practice tests for all 6 exams (This is worth $600 itself) - OCP Mentoring. You have 24x7 access to our OCP Mentors via our Mentor Forum and Chat Rooms. - eFlash Cards. Electronic Flash Cards quiz you on important topics of each exam. - An easy, step by step Syllabus for Success for each exam module will guarantee certification success. 94% of our students pass the first time they take their exams! - Unlimited access to recorded sessions for review or to retake if you had to miss a class (try THAT with traditional classroom training!). As a matter of fact, because our OCP program is so flexible, effective, and inexpensive, it is becoming a fast favorite among Oracle Professionals. Here are just a few of the comments we have received so far... --- There was so much information that I needed to know for each exam, but my Instructor made it a point to explain every area that was expected to be tested on the exams. Because of the Instructor's insights into the exam topics, I was able to spend less time in overall studying. ~Brenda Thomas, PeopleSoft --- --- I can't say enough about the personal attention I received by my Instructor and Mentors at OraKnowledge. They helped me when I needed better explanations and they provided the motivation to stay on track ~William Jennings, Ernst Young Consulting --- As always, we will be extending our 100% money back guarantee on your training: If you fail any exam the first time through, we will buy your next test voucher AND provide you with one on one mentoring and coaching to identify your weak areas. If you fail twice, we will refund 100% of your money...no questions asked. **FAIR WARNING** To get in on this 50% discount you must register within the next 10 days because the sale will be ending at midnight on July 26th. Also, since we only have a LIMITED NUMBER OF SEATS REMAINIG, this offer may end early if all seats have been sold!! Our upcoming eBoot Camp Schedule includes either DAY or EVENING courses:
RE: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
Paula - I'm skeptical whether a boot camp could cover all the material involved in the OCP tests. I could see where you might come out tuned up enough to whip out a couple of tests, but once you got past them, you'd probably have to do the other tests the hard way -- study for them. I would rate the individual classes as more likely to help you through the OCP, one test at a time. Dennis Williams DBA, 20% OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July 26th) is the last day of our Summer Promotion that entitles you to save 50% off our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp. That's right, save $1,749. We have only a handful of remaining seats for our Live, Online, Instructor-led course, so call us and register today!! In case you have lost the previous email I sent, here's the facts: Because the classes must go on...whether there are only 5 or as many as 15 students enrolled...we've decided to allow you the opportunity to register for a seat in one of our upcoming courses for 50% OFF. That's right, instead of the normal $3,499 registration fee for our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp, you can register for only $1,749. Here's what you get: - A 5 week blended eLearning program that includes Instructor Led Training in our Virtual Classroom environment. That's right, you simply need to login to the Virtual Classroom at the designated time to receive Live, Instructor Led Training...without having to leave your home or office! - The course includes training for all 5 Oracle8i OCP DBA exams, plus as a FREE BONUS we are including our Oracle9i New Features for Administrators course that will prepare you for the Oracle9i Upgrade exam. That's a total of 6 courses! - Sybex and Oracle Press Exam Guides that cover the topics of all 6 exams - The Self Test Software practice tests for all 6 exams (This is worth $600 itself) - OCP Mentoring. You have 24x7 access to our OCP Mentors via our Mentor Forum and Chat Rooms. - eFlash Cards. Electronic Flash Cards quiz you on important topics of each exam. - An easy, step by step Syllabus for Success for each exam module will guarantee certification success. 94% of our students pass the first time they take their exams! - Unlimited access to recorded sessions for review or to retake if you had to miss a class (try THAT with traditional classroom training!). As a matter of fact, because our OCP program is so flexible, effective, and inexpensive, it is becoming a fast favorite among Oracle Professionals. Here are just a few of the comments we have received so far... --- There was so much information that I needed to know for each exam, but my Instructor made it a point to explain every area that was expected to be tested on the exams. Because of the Instructor's insights into the exam topics, I was able to spend less time in overall studying. ~Brenda Thomas, PeopleSoft --- --- I can't say enough about the personal attention I received by my Instructor and Mentors at OraKnowledge. They helped me when I needed better explanations and they provided the motivation to stay on track ~William Jennings, Ernst Young Consulting --- As always, we will be extending our 100% money back guarantee on your training: If you fail any exam the first time through, we will buy your next test voucher AND provide you with one on one mentoring and coaching to identify your weak areas. If you fail twice, we will refund 100% of your money...no questions asked. **FAIR WARNING** To get in on this 50% discount you must register within the next 10 days because the sale will be ending at midnight on July 26th. Also, since we only have a LIMITED NUMBER OF SEATS REMAINIG, this offer may end early if all seats have been sold!! Our upcoming eBoot Camp Schedule includes either DAY or EVENING courses:
Re: Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA
8 years of experience and working steadily? Personally, I would not think it's required. The experience and resume should be able to do most of the talking. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/25/2002 10:53 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Guys: Is this worth $1,749 for 8 year Oracle veteran DBA Guys, I have been working hard on Oracle systems at various levels - various platforms, etc. for 8 years. It has been a long time since I have taken a course. Would like to go to IOUG. Reading e-mails I have made up my mind - I think it gives me more options to get certified. Problem has been I work and have 2 small kids. Also, I am a consultant who has been steadily applied - not a problem but it means I am either working on systems or with my kids. I am thinking this is a way to save myself the time I don't have and force the commitment - is it worth it? I know an unfair question but by taking this and the exams will I indeed completed what it takes to become certified for 9I? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Tomorrow (Friday July 26th) is the last day of our Summer Promotion that entitles you to save 50% off our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp. That's right, save $1,749. We have only a handful of remaining seats for our Live, Online, Instructor-led course, so call us and register today!! In case you have lost the previous email I sent, here's the facts: Because the classes must go on...whether there are only 5 or as many as 15 students enrolled...we've decided to allow you the opportunity to register for a seat in one of our upcoming courses for 50% OFF. That's right, instead of the normal $3,499 registration fee for our Oracle8i / 9i DBA eBoot Camp, you can register for only $1,749. Here's what you get: - A 5 week blended eLearning program that includes Instructor Led Training in our Virtual Classroom environment. That's right, you simply need to login to the Virtual Classroom at the designated time to receive Live, Instructor Led Training...without having to leave your home or office! - The course includes training for all 5 Oracle8i OCP DBA exams, plus as a FREE BONUS we are including our Oracle9i New Features for Administrators course that will prepare you for the Oracle9i Upgrade exam. That's a total of 6 courses! - Sybex and Oracle Press Exam Guides that cover the topics of all 6 exams - The Self Test Software practice tests for all 6 exams (This is worth $600 itself) - OCP Mentoring. You have 24x7 access to our OCP Mentors via our Mentor Forum and Chat Rooms. - eFlash Cards. Electronic Flash Cards quiz you on important topics of each exam. - An easy, step by step Syllabus for Success for each exam module will guarantee certification success. 94% of our students pass the first time they take their exams! - Unlimited access to recorded sessions for review or to retake if you had to miss a class (try THAT with traditional classroom training!). As a matter of fact, because our OCP program is so flexible, effective, and inexpensive, it is becoming a fast favorite among Oracle Professionals. Here are just a few of the comments we have received so far... --- There was so much information that I needed to know for each exam, but my Instructor made it a point to explain every area that was expected to be tested on the exams. Because of the Instructor's insights into the exam topics, I was able to spend less time in overall studying. ~Brenda Thomas, PeopleSoft --- --- I can't say enough about the personal attention I received by my Instructor and Mentors at OraKnowledge. They helped me when I needed better explanations and they provided the motivation to stay on track ~William Jennings, Ernst Young Consulting --- As always, we will be extending our 100% money back guarantee on your training: If you fail any exam the first time through, we will buy your next test voucher AND provide you with one on one mentoring and coaching to identify your weak areas. If you fail twice, we will refund 100% of your money...no questions asked. **FAIR WARNING** To get in on this 50% discount you must register within the next 10 days because the sale will be ending at midnight on July 26th. Also, since we only have a LIMITED NUMBER OF SEATS REMAINIG, this offer may end early if all seats have been sold!! Our upcoming eBoot Camp Schedule includes either DAY or EVENING courses: - July 29th, 2002 Class meets Mon, Tues, Wed from 1pm-4pm EST (10am-1pm PST)
