RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines Amen. btw, some other "authorities" don't think vaccines had the played the sole, or even majority role, in disappearance or "de-virulence" of a given disease. Read, for example "Evolution of Infectious Diseases" by Dr. Paul Ewald. He is a professor at Amherst College. The book has many many many references: it is essentially a long academic paper, bound and printed for consumption by the common man ( that would be you and I :-) hth Ross -Original Message-From: Hagedorn, Linda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:35 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: OT - Vaccines Paraphrased from http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010821/us/religion_immunizations_1.html Casper, Wyo. U.S. District Court Judge William Downes barred the state of Wyoming Dept of Health from holding hearings to determine the level of sincerity about some parents religious convictions in refusing to have their children immunized. Wyoming officials had made hepatitis B mandatory for entry into the public school system. Some parents refused on religious grounds and argued that the administrative hearings held to determine their sincerity about the issue violated their constitutional right to freedom of religion. The Judge agreed. -- So the bottom line is parents can refuse the 'pretend-mandatory' immunizations for their children, and it does have a constitutional underpinning. -Original Message- From: MacGregor, Ian A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Small pox is extinct in the wild. A few years ago the U.S. and Russia were to destroy their last vials. Both countries backed off citing scientific reasons. I cannot say whether it was the vaccine which stopped you from getting polio, but I certainly agree that the vaccine is what has made that crippling disease so rare. That does not mean one should not question some of the vaccine protocols nor the chemicals used a preservatives. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The interesting thing about this thread is the fact that most of the childhood diseases our children get shots to prevent still exist in most third-world countries. The last I heard smallpox has been eliminated from North America, not the world. Now, if the shots were doing no good and the diseases would eventually just disappear it seems to me this would have already happened in those countries? I wonder why there always has to be some conspiracy involved. My goodness, cloning, bioengineered foods, DNA evidence, the government and vaccines!?! What will be next? I think indoor plumbing was just a Citywide conspiracy to collect Sewage/Water fees. We now know better about a lot of things including the general welfare of kids that get the vaccines. Yes, your child could do without them and be just fine unless they come across some other child who has contracted the disease. The reason I didn't have Polio and Smallpox when I was a kid is because of the vaccinations. I knew a poor soul that had polio and it's a horrible disease. Thank goodness for off-topic Fridays. It's good to debate :) ps. This reflects my opinion, not fact. Have a heart and take it with a sense of humor before flaming in public. --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: "Babette Turner-Underwood" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally "learning" for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with "new" vaccines...before it is developed, or ful
RE: OT - Vaccines
Hannibal, I wouldn't have thought that you fell under that category - common man ?!!? Surely people that enjoy a bit of homo-sapien meat from time to time are not all that common at all? :^P Dorothy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 16:16 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Amen. btw, some other authorities don't think vaccines had the played the sole, or even majority role, in disappearance or de-virulence of a given disease. Read, for example Evolution of Infectious Diseases by Dr. Paul Ewald. He is a professor at Amherst College. The book has many many many references: it is essentially a long academic paper, bound and printed for consumption by the common man ( that would be you and I :-) hth Ross -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - Vaccines [kidz 'r hell]
relax, it will probably get worse! when my son was about 18 months old, and we were in barcelona on vacation, he stuck his head through a very elaborate decorative curved wrought iron stair railing (one of the many architectural wonders there: http://aleph.kubos.org/AN/img/barca/vicen_gd.jpg , http://aleph.kubos.org/AN/img/barca/p223p10s.jpg , http://www.jpmoser.com/images/p-vic3.jpg , http://www.jpmoser.com/images/p-torto1.jpg , http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rybsk001/Barcelona/quadras.jpg , http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rybsk001/Barcelona/discordgaudipc.jpg , http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rybsk001/Barcelona/discordhouse.jpg , http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rybsk001/Barcelona/chimney.jpg , http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rybsk001/Barcelona/guellview.jpg , http://www.bryceandpalazzola.com/archtours/Barcelona/b21.GIF , etc: http://www.rutamodernisme.com ) in an old school we were visiting, and the bombers (fire department) had to come with one of those jaws of life type machines, and cut the railing all up to get head out. the stair railing was a very intricate floral design, and he stuck his head in the rough equivalent of a v shaped racoon trap, and couldn't get it out. during all the chaos and screaming, I was asking my wife what the hell the EMTs and fire dept rescue people where saying in catalan. in the midst of all the noise, one of the EMTs (a woman) looked up, and (in pretty good english), said the following very important observation to me: you must be one of those americans that can't speak any other languages very well!!! comic relief in hindsight. :) regards, ep Kathy Duret wrote: ...But how can I explain this to him when he is uncontrollably sobbing ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines Paraphrased from http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010821/us/religion_immunizations_1.html Casper, Wyo. U.S. District Court Judge William Downes barred the state of Wyoming Dept of Health from holding hearings to determine the level of sincerity about some parents religious convictions in refusing to have their children immunized. Wyoming officials had made hepatitis B mandatory for entry into the public school system. Some parents refused on religious grounds and argued that the administrative hearings held to determine their sincerity about the issue violated their constitutional right to freedom of religion. The Judge agreed. -- So the bottom line is parents can refuse the 'pretend-mandatory' immunizations for their children, and it does have a constitutional underpinning. -Original Message- From: MacGregor, Ian A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Small pox is extinct in the wild. A few years ago the U.S. and Russia were to destroy their last vials. Both countries backed off citing scientific reasons. I cannot say whether it was the vaccine which stopped you from getting polio, but I certainly agree that the vaccine is what has made that crippling disease so rare. That does not mean one should not question some of the vaccine protocols nor the chemicals used a preservatives. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The interesting thing about this thread is the fact that most of the childhood diseases our children get shots to prevent still exist in most third-world countries. The last I heard smallpox has been eliminated from North America, not the world. Now, if the shots were doing no good and the diseases would eventually just disappear it seems to me this would have already happened in those countries? I wonder why there always has to be some conspiracy involved. My goodness, cloning, bioengineered foods, DNA evidence, the government and vaccines!?! What will be next? I think indoor plumbing was just a Citywide conspiracy to collect Sewage/Water fees. We now know better about a lot of things including the general welfare of kids that get the vaccines. Yes, your child could do without them and be just fine unless they come across some other child who has contracted the disease. The reason I didn't have Polio and Smallpox when I was a kid is because of the vaccinations. I knew a poor soul that had polio and it's a horrible disease. Thank goodness for off-topic Fridays. It's good to debate :) ps. This reflects my opinion, not fact. Have a heart and take it with a sense of humor before flaming in public. --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: Babette Turner-Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have
RE: OT - Vaccines
Linda, I don't mean to be flippant but I am almost positive in about 13-16 years in the future there will be times when you will look back on those moments with EXTREME fondness Lee -Original Message- Sent: 16 August 2001 21:13 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components and/or its affiliates, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipients or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kathy Duret INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
RE: OT - Vaccines
Hi Ross - you wrote - ...Children who have evidence of immunity as demonstrated by laboratory confirmation of immunity or a reliable medical history of disease are exempt from such requirement || This says, basically, that is it really ambiguous.lol Actually, they're referring to titers (which give a laboratory confirmation of immunity). For some diseases, a history of the disease renders you immune, thus if you have had those diseases, you are exempt. For other diseases, in certain circumstances (not childhood immunizations), if I remember correctly, you are not considered immunized until your titer reaches a certain level. I believe HepB for occupational exposure was or is one of those. After July 1, 2001, all children who have not yet received immunization against hepatitis B shall receive such immunization prior to entering sixth grade || This says, basically, that you have to have HiB before sixth grade ( 12 years old) not..three years old HiB is Haemophilus B (spelling?), not Hepatitis B. Hepatitis B is normally abbreviated HepB. I cannot, in good conscience agree that it is mandated.there are so many loopholes...exemptions...exclusionscaveats... It is a skein of confusion and misinformation, generated by The Board. It is actually mandated, although one can get around it using exemptions as you note. If I remember correctly, the VDH immunization guidelines (like, I believe, most state vaccination guidelines), are based on the CDC (US Centers for Disease Control) recommendations, not a separate determination by the state (or Commonwealth in this case) Board of Health. Lisa Auerbach (who worked for 8 years in a district office of the Virginia Department of Health.) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Lisa Corell Auerbach INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
From: MacGregor, Ian A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:28:10 -0800 However, it was decided to allow the stocks of vaccines with thimerosal to be used rather than discarded. It was this same logic (but we spent money on this and we'd have to record a loss on the books) that the drug companies used as a rationale for not discarding HIV-tainted blood product that they distributed to the nation's hemophiliacs, thus infecting them with HIV. I believe that's called pre-meditated murder in most places. God, I really hate doing things for the profit margin _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components and/or its affiliates, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or
RE: OT - Vaccines
Linda, I agree with Lee. My kids are 11,12 and 15. It is hard to remember when they were 4 months old. When I see small children now, I can't help but smile and laugh. It is absolutely amazing to watch small children learn and accomplish the smallest things - like rolling over and crawling! Enjoy him! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 5:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Linda, I don't mean to be flippant but I am almost positive in about 13-16 years in the future there will be times when you will look back on those moments with EXTREME fondness Lee -Original Message- Sent: 16 August 2001 21:13 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components and/or its affiliates, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipients or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kathy Duret INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line
RE: OT - Vaccines
Over here in the UK, we have our children done in two stages. They have the first at around 4 months, then go back 2/3 months later for the second. There was actually a story on the news a week or so back about a doctor being had up for offering the choice to parents to have the jab all in one. These parents actually proferred to have the shots at the same time.. I am also just like you Linda, both me and my partner took our little girl to have her shots. Though she cried for only a couple of minutes or so - it is still hard to watch somebody inflict pain on your little bundle of joy.. Mark -Original Message- Lee - lerobe Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:26 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Linda, I don't mean to be flippant but I am almost positive in about 13-16 years in the future there will be times when you will look back on those moments with EXTREME fondness Lee -Original Message- Sent: 16 August 2001 21:13 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components and/or its affiliates, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipients or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kathy Duret INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
RE: OT - Vaccines
I just meant I hate the vaccinations. They are a necessary evil for me as I have to take him to day care. I do give him the infant Tylenol. But how can I explain this to him when he is uncontrollably sobbing from the shots? Don't get me wrong...this age I love. Every day is a new experience. I wish I could keep him at this age for a bit longer. He loves to show me how he can touch his toes and how he has a front and a back to his hand. He is grabbing everything (Dad taught him how to grab the remote control from me already!) and loves his dogs and vice versa. He has brought so much joy to my life. I never thought I would rather stay at home with him then work. I have always been a work-a-holic. Now I have to force myself to work cause I miss him so. I can't wait for the weekend to be with him. Kathy -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 6:31 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Linda, I agree with Lee. My kids are 11,12 and 15. It is hard to remember when they were 4 months old. When I see small children now, I can't help but smile and laugh. It is absolutely amazing to watch small children learn and accomplish the smallest things - like rolling over and crawling! Enjoy him! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 5:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Linda, I don't mean to be flippant but I am almost positive in about 13-16 years in the future there will be times when you will look back on those moments with EXTREME fondness Lee -Original Message- Sent: 16 August 2001 21:13 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components
Re: OT - Vaccines
Kathy Duret wrote: I just meant I hate the vaccinations. They are a necessary evil for me as I have to take him to day care. I do give him the infant Tylenol. But how can I explain this to him when he is uncontrollably sobbing from the shots? *** You don't. You comfort them and they forget it within the hour. --Scott _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: Babette Turner-Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name
RE: OT - Vaccines
The interesting thing about this thread is the fact that most of the childhood diseases our children get shots to prevent still exist in most third-world countries. The last I heard smallpox has been eliminated from North America, not the world. Now, if the shots were doing no good and the diseases would eventually just disappear it seems to me this would have already happened in those countries? I wonder why there always has to be some conspiracy involved. My goodness, cloning, bioengineered foods, DNA evidence, the government and vaccines!?! What will be next? I think indoor plumbing was just a Citywide conspiracy to collect Sewage/Water fees. We now know better about a lot of things including the general welfare of kids that get the vaccines. Yes, your child could do without them and be just fine unless they come across some other child who has contracted the disease. The reason I didn't have Polio and Smallpox when I was a kid is because of the vaccinations. I knew a poor soul that had polio and it's a horrible disease. Thank goodness for off-topic Fridays. It's good to debate :) ps. This reflects my opinion, not fact. Have a heart and take it with a sense of humor before flaming in public. --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: Babette Turner-Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes
RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING CHILDREN! How on earth can a parent make the right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do all you parents do this without going batty But thanks for sharing all this info. -Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines actually, while the overall rate may well have dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record in this department: Read this and *weep* http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc. In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to increased vaccination: A quote: * In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA had the third lowest infant mortality rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The greatest percentage of these deaths is from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol. Happily, at least one country thinks it has a solution: http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199 3-v8-n4-p229.htm A quote: (2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in Japan in 1975 when first inoculations were postponed until the 24th month of life. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: Babette Turner-Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12
RE: OT - Vaccines
Lisa, we have to go batty, part of being a parent. Joe One who is 40 next jan with an 11 and 5 year old, with an 8 month old tagging along, am i insane?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/17/01 02:08PM YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING CHILDREN! How on earth can a parent make the right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do all you parents do this without going batty But thanks for sharing all this info. -Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines actually, while the overall rate may well have dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record in this department: Read this and *weep* http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc. In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to increased vaccination: A quote: * In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA had the third lowest infant mortality rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The greatest percentage of these deaths is from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol. Happily, at least one country thinks it has a solution: http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199 3-v8-n4-p229.htm A quote: "(2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in Japan in 1975 when first inoculations were postponed until the 24th month of life." -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: "Babette Turner-Underwood" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally "learning" for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with "new" vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathi
Re: OT - Vaccines
Lisa, chill. grin You by definition get batty the minute you have kids. All the rest is details. You've seen my brood, briefly, so you know how nuts it can get (I had to throw out the boots BTW evil grin). A lot of the info comes from the net, with suspect sources. Believe it if you will. Or not. Personally I'd like to see the evidence backing up some of these apocryphal claims against vaccines, etc. A lot of what is presented as evidence is very poorly designed or extrapolated. Examine the actual studies. Do they really exist? If so, how was the data compiled. If you are not of an analytical bent, get a friend or doctor to look over the abstract or actual data. I was vaccinated (including some of the really good ones you get in the military that make you sick for a week) and my kids are vaccinated with no ill effects so far. I see it as a better preventative than hoping some internet site with a sensationalistic agenda MIGHT be correct in their assertions. And if I'm wrong? Well, I never did desire to live forever - that would be too boring for words after a point... Scott Shafer Converse, TX Koivu, Lisa wrote: YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING CHILDREN! How on earth can a parent make the right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do all you parents do this without going batty But thanks for sharing all this info. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
Joe. I can say without hesitation that, yes. You are insane. But, we like you that way. Kevin (just escaped from the insane-asylum.) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, we have to go batty, part of being a parent. Joe One who is 40 next jan with an 11 and 5 year old, with an 8 month old tagging along, am i insane?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/17/01 02:08PM YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING CHILDREN! How on earth can a parent make the right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do all you parents do this without going batty But thanks for sharing all this info. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L actually, while the overall rate may well have dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record in this department: Read this and *weep* http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc. In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to increased vaccination: A quote: * In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA had the third lowest infant mortality rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The greatest percentage of these deaths is from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol. Happily, at least one country thinks it has a solution: http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199 http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-19 9 3-v8-n4-p229.htm A quote: (2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in Japan in 1975 when first inoculations were postponed until the 24th month of life. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: Babette Turner-Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three
RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines
-How do all you parents do this without going
batty
Beer As a matter of fact, It's time to go
home and throw back a couple of pints of a good ale!
-Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001
1:09 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: OT - Vaccines
YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING
CHILDREN!
How on earth can a parent make the
right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty
unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry
about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do
all you parents do this without going batty
But thanks for sharing all this
info.
-Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines
actually, while the overall rate may well have
dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record
in this department:
Read this and *weep*
http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf
Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR
have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most
of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc.
In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to
increased vaccination:
A quote:
* In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA
had the third lowest infant
mortality
rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of
the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The
greatest percentage of these deaths is
from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).
The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable
http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm
SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol.
Happily, at least one country thinks it has a
solution:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199
3-v8-n4-p229.htm
A quote: "(2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in
Japan in 1975 when first inoculations
were postponed until the 24th month of life."
-Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate
has dropped.
From: "Babette Turner-Underwood"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug
2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these
vaccines that are forced upon our
children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies
and ADHD and ...?? Something has
changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker
than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
-
babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yikes.the immune
system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very
much in development at early
ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than
us older folks...the system is literally
"learning" for the first few years or
more. Pounding this system with "new" vaccines...before it is
developed, or fully able
to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically
hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me.
Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and
mumps...) but we get it by host to
host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into
the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are
introduced into the body than if they had to
pass through the skin or mucosal
linings just a thought. -Original
Message- Sent: Thursday, August
16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple
recipients of list ORACLE-L
Give
the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot.
Works wonders. I've got two who
just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the
link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always
looking for things to read about
newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now
requiring children to have TB
shots before they can be entered into day
care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been
exposed to the virus because of the
potential side effects.
It is really hard to see my 4 month
old get three shots (they
RE: OT - Vaccines
Joe, I hear you on that, I've four of my own between 16 and 8. We may not be insane, but we could be idiots ;-0 HELP Rodd Holman On 17 Aug 2001 10:23:07 -0800, JOE TESTA wrote: Lisa, we have to go batty, part of being a parent. Joe One who is 40 next jan with an 11 and 5 year old, with an 8 month old tagging along, am i insane?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/17/01 02:08PM YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING CHILDREN! How on earth can a parent make the right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do all you parents do this without going batty But thanks for sharing all this info. -- Rodd Holman Enterprise Data Systems Engineer LodgeNet Entertainment Corporation (605) 988-1373 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
Actually, cases of SIDS can be directly linked to infants sleeping on their backs instead of their stomachs. There have been a lot of studies that seem to indicate that this singlehandedly reduced SIDS related deaths by a significant number. Perhaps the fact that you lift most of your body weight into the air just to get a breath has something to do with it? I would suspect that it's not good for anybody to sleep on their stomachs especially children with developing lungs. As far as Japan goes let's just mention one other tidbit here. They have a greater incidence of stomach cancer than any other developed country. Perhaps their infant's experiences have something to do with diet? Raw fish is probably not good for anybody when eaten in mass quantities. Ooops, that opens up another can of worms indeed :) This is a great off-topic thread. My kudos to the one that originated it. There's a free vaccine in it for you as a thank you gift :O --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L actually, while the overall rate may well have dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record in this department: Read this and *weep* http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc. In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to increased vaccination: A quote: * In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA had the third lowest infant mortality rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The greatest percentage of these deaths is from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol. Happily, at least one country thinks it has a solution: http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199 3-v8-n4-p229.htm A quote: (2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in Japan in 1975 when first inoculations were postponed until the 24th month of life. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: Babette Turner-Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night
RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines
Don't
be, having kids is the most wonderful thing in the world! And you start
losing your mind when you get pregnant!
Believe it or not one of the best resources I have is
just talking to other women at Baby's R Us, grocery store and the doctor's
office. They will let you know what works and what doesn't. Also,
each baby and pregnancy is quite different. You learn by trial and
unfortunately error with each.
Kathy
-Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001
11:09 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: OT - Vaccines
YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING
CHILDREN!
How on earth can a parent make the
right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty
unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry
about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do
all you parents do this without going batty
But thanks for sharing all this
info.
-Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines
actually, while the overall rate may well have
dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record
in this department:
Read this and *weep*
http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf
Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR
have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most
of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc.
In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to
increased vaccination:
A quote:
* In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA
had the third lowest infant
mortality
rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of
the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The
greatest percentage of these deaths is
from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).
The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable
http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm
SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol.
Happily, at least one country thinks it has a
solution:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199
3-v8-n4-p229.htm
A quote: "(2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in
Japan in 1975 when first inoculations
were postponed until the 24th month of life."
-Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate
has dropped.
From: "Babette Turner-Underwood"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug
2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these
vaccines that are forced upon our
children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies
and ADHD and ...?? Something has
changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker
than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
-
babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yikes.the immune
system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very
much in development at early
ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than
us older folks...the system is literally
"learning" for the first few years or
more. Pounding this system with "new" vaccines...before it is
developed, or fully able
to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically
hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me.
Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and
mumps...) but we get it by host to
host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into
the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are
introduced into the body than if they had to
pass through the skin or mucosal
linings just a thought. -Original
Message- Sent: Thursday, August
16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple
recipients of list ORACLE-L
Give
the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot.
Works wonders. I've got two who
just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the
link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always
looking for things to read about
newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now
requiring children to have TB
shots before th
RE: OT - Vaccines
Yep... kids suck the brains right out of you within 10 min of labor. You don't KNOW you are doing the right thing... you have to have faith that you at least are not deliberately harming them, or preventing them from being helped. Worst thing that has ever happened to mine is the got a sore hip from the MMR (bigger needle) and got real whiny for a day and a half... ear infections and teething are usually worse that what they got. Are we creating sicker kids... probably... but not from vaccines, more from overuse of antibiotics for EVERYTHING. If the fever wasn't over 102, and I knew it wasn't strap, I generally tried to let them fight it on their own. In general, I have been scared to death of just about everything since my oldest was born. My latest big worry is... HE has decided he loves to look at rattle snakes while he is rock climbing! But they are wonderful sources of learning, humility and hope. April Wells Corporate Systems Amarillo TX -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, chill. grin You by definition get batty the minute you have kids. All the rest is details. You've seen my brood, briefly, so you know how nuts it can get (I had to throw out the boots BTW evil grin). A lot of the info comes from the net, with suspect sources. Believe it if you will. Or not. Personally I'd like to see the evidence backing up some of these apocryphal claims against vaccines, etc. A lot of what is presented as evidence is very poorly designed or extrapolated. Examine the actual studies. Do they really exist? If so, how was the data compiled. If you are not of an analytical bent, get a friend or doctor to look over the abstract or actual data. I was vaccinated (including some of the really good ones you get in the military that make you sick for a week) and my kids are vaccinated with no ill effects so far. I see it as a better preventative than hoping some internet site with a sensationalistic agenda MIGHT be correct in their assertions. And if I'm wrong? Well, I never did desire to live forever - that would be too boring for words after a point... Scott Shafer Converse, TX Koivu, Lisa wrote: YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING CHILDREN! How on earth can a parent make the right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do all you parents do this without going batty But thanks for sharing all this info. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and/or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We accept no liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: April Wells INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
I like to joke with my friends and always
say that the recent generations should be called the antibiotic
generations.
Before this invention there was only one
law: Natural selection (or election) which the strong survive and the weak
die.
But now everybody survives (genetically
strong, weak, or genetically corrupted).
Also technology has to do with this:
spending most of the time indoors watching TV, video, game stations, junk/fast
food, etc.
Have a nice weekend,
Waleed
-Original Message-From: JOE TESTA
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:23
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
OT - Vaccines
Lisa, we have to go batty, part of being a parent.
Joe
One who is 40 next jan with an 11 and 5 year old, with an 8 month old
tagging along, am i insane?? [EMAIL PROTECTED]
08/17/01 02:08PM
YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING
CHILDREN!
How on earth can a parent make the right
decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty
unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry
about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do
all you parents do this without going batty
But thanks for sharing all this info.
-Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines
actually, while the overall rate may well have
dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record
in this department:
Read this and *weep*
http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf
Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR
have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most
of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc.
In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to
increased vaccination:
A quote:
* In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA
had the third lowest infant
mortality
rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of
the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The
greatest percentage of these deaths is
from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).
The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable
http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm
SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol.
Happily, at least one country thinks it has a
solution:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199
3-v8-n4-p229.htm
A quote: "(2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in
Japan in 1975 when first inoculations
were postponed until the 24th month of life."
-Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate
has dropped.
From: "Babette Turner-Underwood"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug
2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these
vaccines that are forced upon our
children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies
and ADHD and ...?? Something has
changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker
than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
-
babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yikes.the immune
system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very
much in development at early
ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than
us older folks...the system is literally
"learning" for the first few years or
more. Pounding this system with "new" vaccines...before it is
developed, or fully able
to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically
hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me.
Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and
mumps...) but we get it by host to
host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into
the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are
introduced into the body than if they had to
pass through the skin or mucosal
linings just a thought. -Original
Message- Sent: Thursday, August
16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple
recipients of list ORACLE-L
Give
the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot.
Works wonders. I've got two who
just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX Kathy D
RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines
How on earth
can a parent make the right decisions??
This is why we have more than 1 child. You try
your best with the first. Fix your mistakes and make new ones with the
second. and so on, and so on... Despite the same 2 parents, each child has
their own personality and you just learn to adapt your parenting style to
them.
We'reraising 3 teenage princesses.The
age I most disliked was around 3 when they would wander offanywhere they
liked; confident thatmommy would find them. My eldest was out
shopping last weekend and in the midst of buying herself CDs, bought me a novel
she thought I'd like. This is one of the ways you know you're doing
something right. :)
~Ruth
-Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001
2:09 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: OT - Vaccines
YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING
CHILDREN!
How on earth can a parent make the
right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty
unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry
about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do
all you parents do this without going batty
But thanks for sharing all this
info.
-Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines
actually, while the overall rate may well have
dropped, the US has an ABHORRENT record
in this department:
Read this and *weep*
http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/health/ihhac/ihhac-c05d.pdf
Note, also, that MOST of the reduction in IMR
have NOTHING to do with vaccines...most
of them have to do with congenital defects...perinatal complications...etc.
In fact, SIDS may be *directly correlated* to
increased vaccination:
A quote:
* In 1950, before mass vaccination began, the USA
had the third lowest infant
mortality
rate in the world. By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place. By 1995, there were 23 countries ahead of
the USA, by now world renowned for its appalling infant mortality. The
greatest percentage of these deaths is
from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).
The link between vaccination and SIDS is indisputable
http://hometown.aol.com/drdawndc/cdab.htm
SIDS is not easy to cure with Infant Tylenol.
Happily, at least one country thinks it has a
solution:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-199
3-v8-n4-p229.htm
A quote: "(2) Crib deaths nearly disappeared in
Japan in 1975 when first inoculations
were postponed until the 24th month of life."
-Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate
has dropped.
From: "Babette Turner-Underwood"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug
2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these
vaccines that are forced upon our
children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies
and ADHD and ...?? Something has
changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker
than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
-
babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yikes.the immune
system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very
much in development at early
ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than
us older folks...the system is literally
"learning" for the first few years or
more. Pounding this system with "new" vaccines...before it is
developed, or fully able
to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically
hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me.
Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and
mumps...) but we get it by host to
host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into
the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are
introduced into the body than if they had to
pass through the skin or mucosal
linings just a thought. -Original
Message- Sent: Thursday, August
16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple
recipients of list ORACLE-L
Give
the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot.
Works wonders. I've got two who
just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer
San Ant
RE: OT - Vaccines
I am pro vaccine. I am not pro vaccines with mercury. My wife feels our daughter's autism was caused by the themerisol shots. I am not in agreement, but I cannot dismiss it out of hand. The commonality of the symptoms between mercury poisoning and autism is staggering. I want, however, to see the data showing the linkage, not just testimonials. There are testimonials to the effect that eating your own waste cures cancer. I checked on two of the other doctors, besides Amy Holmes, claiming very favorable, fantastic, results with autisitc children via mercury chelation. It turns out two of them are chiropractors. They are both listed as MD's as well. Does Florida consider DC's to be MD's? If so, that state is one I shall not inhabit. My limited experience with chiropractors and my reading of a book by one has led me to conclude that fraud is rampant in that profession. Dr Holmes was an oncologist before becoming a pediatrician. She chelated her son, diagnosed a severely autistic and mentally retarded. He is now a normal bright individual, the top of his class at a regular elementary? school. I dismiss the chiropractors claims as poppycock, but Holmes is a different story. I believe she is claiming that 74% of children under four or five are showing either great or moderate improvement, some older children are showing none. I do not know what scale she is using to judge these improvements. Some studies of autism have indicated that 40% of parents swear their child is improving when given a placebo. Whether the linkage between autism and mercury is proven or not. All you need is a bit of common sense to figger injecting mercury into children is not beneficial. Lead wick candles were banned because the lead oxide particulate from them settles own flat surfaces where it can be consumed by children. Yet we inject as much mercury as is in a can of tuna into a newborn. I am do not like the vaccine schedule. I see no reason for HepB at birth, unless lifestyle or back ground suggests that it should be done. Even better would be to test the mothers. Apparently some HepB vaccines are still being manufactured with thimerosal. I see no reason to vaccinate against chicken pox. I believe MMR can be delayed until the child is ready for kindergarden. However I also believe vaccines against meningitis and polio should be given as early as possible. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 11:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, chill. grin You by definition get batty the minute you have kids. All the rest is details. You've seen my brood, briefly, so you know how nuts it can get (I had to throw out the boots BTW evil grin). A lot of the info comes from the net, with suspect sources. Believe it if you will. Or not. Personally I'd like to see the evidence backing up some of these apocryphal claims against vaccines, etc. A lot of what is presented as evidence is very poorly designed or extrapolated. Examine the actual studies. Do they really exist? If so, how was the data compiled. If you are not of an analytical bent, get a friend or doctor to look over the abstract or actual data. I was vaccinated (including some of the really good ones you get in the military that make you sick for a week) and my kids are vaccinated with no ill effects so far. I see it as a better preventative than hoping some internet site with a sensationalistic agenda MIGHT be correct in their assertions. And if I'm wrong? Well, I never did desire to live forever - that would be too boring for words after a point... Scott Shafer Converse, TX Koivu, Lisa wrote: YOU GUYS ARE SCARING ME OUT OF HAVING CHILDREN! How on earth can a parent make the right decisions?? All the information flying around on the list is pretty unnerving. Sure the numbers may be very low but the #1 thing I worry about (and most other expectant parents) is the baby's health. How do all you parents do this without going batty But thanks for sharing all this info. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L
RE: OT - Vaccines
Small pox is extinct in the wild. A few years ago the U.S. and Russia were to destroy their last vials. Both countries backed off citing scientific reasons. I cannot say whether it was the vaccine which stopped you from getting polio, but I certainly agree that the vaccine is what has made that crippling disease so rare. That does not mean one should not question some of the vaccine protocols nor the chemicals used a preservatives. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The interesting thing about this thread is the fact that most of the childhood diseases our children get shots to prevent still exist in most third-world countries. The last I heard smallpox has been eliminated from North America, not the world. Now, if the shots were doing no good and the diseases would eventually just disappear it seems to me this would have already happened in those countries? I wonder why there always has to be some conspiracy involved. My goodness, cloning, bioengineered foods, DNA evidence, the government and vaccines!?! What will be next? I think indoor plumbing was just a Citywide conspiracy to collect Sewage/Water fees. We now know better about a lot of things including the general welfare of kids that get the vaccines. Yes, your child could do without them and be just fine unless they come across some other child who has contracted the disease. The reason I didn't have Polio and Smallpox when I was a kid is because of the vaccinations. I knew a poor soul that had polio and it's a horrible disease. Thank goodness for off-topic Fridays. It's good to debate :) ps. This reflects my opinion, not fact. Have a heart and take it with a sense of humor before flaming in public. --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L sicker? possibly. But the infant mortality rate has dropped. From: Babette Turner-Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:36:53 -0800 I wonder if there is a link between all of these vaccines that are forced upon our children and the increase in childhood illnesses, such as asthma and allergies and ADHD and ...?? Something has changed. With our new improved health care system, I believe on average children are sicker than they were 20 or 30 years ago. - babette -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original
Re: OT - Vaccines
There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com My apologies for the off topic matter, and now for some Oracle content: * You can update SYS.LINK$ and flush the shared pool to change the password for a DB link, rather than dropping and re-creating the link (not supported but works great!). -- Jeremiah Wilton http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: Someone here was interested in vaccines. http://www.aapsonline.org/aaps/ Go to Vaccines: A Look at the Risks and Benefits on the left... Then, the last item in the right frame is More Vaccine Information. That pops a list of AAPS actions/statements regarding vaccines. See the mail from 11/2/2000. Amazing! Basically, AAPS thinks vaccines should NOT be *mandated*, but merely suggested to the physician, and then presented to the patient on a case-by-case basis. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jeremiah Wilton INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines Remember, there is always a medical exception to any vaccine. If someone has said, 'It's required', remember the US is not a communist state. They cannot hold you down and give you a vaccine, nor can they force you to have your children vaccinated. They will also withhold the knowledge of the exception, so you have to 1) learn the difference between a right and privilege, and 2) examine every demand made upon us. Then it's clear that there are exceptions to every demand that is made which would infringe upon a right :) Linda Hagedorn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components and/or its affiliates, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipients or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kathy Duret INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - Vaccines
Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components and/or its affiliates, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipients or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kathy Duret INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX:
RE: OT - Vaccines
Okay, I think we can both eat some words. It is legislated, but there are religious or physical endangerment clauses (Title 32, Chapter 1, Section 46): http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+32.1-46 http://www.elkokidsdoc.com/Pages/WellChild/W_Ex_ChickPox.html This second site also gives alot of other facts to help out on the issue. Dave --- It's probably NOT state law, but mandated by the State Health Office, an unelected, non-academic bureau w/in State Govt. Of course, if you can provide the law (code and section) from the Commonwealth Law that shows this, I'll eat my words (virtually, of course!) :-) something like 40 states allow for religious exemptions, another 15 allow exemptions on philosophical grounds. That, plus the AAPS' recommendation is enough for me to question any self-appointed Godlike correctness on the part of the State Health Office. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
yikes.the immune system is fabulously complexsecond in complexity only to the brain itself...and it is still very very much in development at early ages...this is why kids -- all kids -- get more colds, etc than us older folks...the system is literally learning for the first few years or more. Pounding this system with new vaccines...before it is developed, or fully able to defend itself ( vaccines ARE basically hobbled diseases, folks ) is really scary to me. Also, remember...you and I may get chicken pox ( i did, and mumps...) but we get it by host to host contact...NOT by *intravenous injection* directly into the bloodstream where orders of magnitude more of disease vectors are introduced into the body than if they had to pass through the skin or mucosal linings just a thought. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Give the kid some baby motrin or baby tylenol prior to the shot. Works wonders. I've got two who just got a round of vaccinations this week. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Kathy Duret wrote: Thanks for the link. As a new parent of a 4 month old, I am always looking for things to read about newborns. Some Health centers (Long Beach, CA) are now requiring children to have TB shots before they can be entered into day care. My pediatrician refuses (thankfully) to do it before 6 months even if they have been exposed to the virus because of the potential side effects. It is really hard to see my 4 month old get three shots (they won't split them up I asked) at one time. His little legs are so bruised afterwards. It takes him a week to get back to normal. But often the benefits outweigh the risks. Just be aware of the side effects and watch them like a hawk. I get up several times a night for several days after the shots to check my babies color, breathing and temperature. Better neurotic than sorry. My husband and I both go on vaccination day, so one can comfort the baby on the way home while the other drives. I read somewhere that a doctor actually said they don't feel that much pain. He should have seen my babies legs and heard him scream. This is probably one of the worst things about being a parent. kathy -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Confidential This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of Belkin Components and/or its affiliates, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipients or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
RE: OT - Vaccines
...Children who have evidence of immunity as demonstrated by laboratory confirmation of immunity or a reliable medical history of disease are exempt from such requirement || This says, basically, that is it really ambiguous.lol After July 1, 2001, all children who have not yet received immunization against hepatitis B shall receive such immunization prior to entering sixth grade || This says, basically, that you have to have HiB before sixth grade ( 12 years old) not..three years old I cannot, in good conscience agree that it is mandated.there are so many loopholes...exemptions...exclusionscaveats... It is a skein of confusion and misinformation, generated by The Board. ## Here is a long, referenced, but very readable article. It says, among other things, that *previous bad reactions* like swelling, bruising, etc are a WARNING SIGN. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WAXHAW/vaccine1.htm Here is a page with some history...some agenda...and a number of Medical references. You knowdoctor's don't all love the new vaccines, either. http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/immnza1.html Here is a link to links one of which apparently connects autism to mercury in vaccines. Yes, mercury is used in vaccines. Alot. http://www.vaclib.org/links/vaxlinks.htm lastly, lest you think you might be the only one outraged at iatrogenic disease and propaganda, this link about some misinformation on the show ER shows otherwise! http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/21/er_controversy2.htm Happy Reading! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Okay, I think we can both eat some words. It is legislated, but there are religious or physical endangerment clauses (Title 32, Chapter 1, Section 46): http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+32.1-46 http://www.elkokidsdoc.com/Pages/WellChild/W_Ex_ChickPox.html This second site also gives alot of other facts to help out on the issue. Dave --- It's probably NOT state law, but mandated by the State Health Office, an unelected, non-academic bureau w/in State Govt. Of course, if you can provide the law (code and section) from the Commonwealth Law that shows this, I'll eat my words (virtually, of course!) :-) something like 40 states allow for religious exemptions, another 15 allow exemptions on philosophical grounds. That, plus the AAPS' recommendation is enough for me to question any self-appointed Godlike correctness on the part of the State Health Office. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
I bet you a scotch there are religious exemptions in NYC, too, RC. :) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yes there are exceptions and you don't HAVE to give your child the vaccine. on the other hand, NYC will not allow you to register your child for school if you cannot show proof of vaccination. And if you don't send your child to either public school, private school or prove that you are homeschooling properly... that's considered child neglect From: Hagedorn, Linda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:13:01 -0800 Remember, there is always a medical exception to any vaccine. If someone has said, 'It's required', remember the US is not a communist state. They cannot hold you down and give you a vaccine, nor can they force you to have your children vaccinated. They will also withhold the knowledge of the exception, so you have to 1) learn the difference between a right and privilege, and 2) examine every demand made upon us. Then it's clear that there are exceptions to every demand that is made which would infringe upon a right :) Linda Hagedorn -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - Vaccines
Same here. Besides, this close to the border, I get to see the results of no vaccinations with regularity. I'll give my kids the shots. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Rachel Carmichael wrote: yes there are exceptions and you don't HAVE to give your child the vaccine. on the other hand, NYC will not allow you to register your child for school if you cannot show proof of vaccination. And if you don't send your child to either public school, private school or prove that you are homeschooling properly... that's considered child neglect _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
Yeah Dr. Ross... you get'em:) KK -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ...Children who have evidence of immunity as demonstrated by laboratory confirmation of immunity or a reliable medical history of disease are exempt from such requirement || This says, basically, that is it really ambiguous.lol After July 1, 2001, all children who have not yet received immunization against hepatitis B shall receive such immunization prior to entering sixth grade || This says, basically, that you have to have HiB before sixth grade ( 12 years old) not..three years old I cannot, in good conscience agree that it is mandated.there are so many loopholes...exemptions...exclusionscaveats... It is a skein of confusion and misinformation, generated by The Board. ## Here is a long, referenced, but very readable article. It says, among other things, that *previous bad reactions* like swelling, bruising, etc are a WARNING SIGN. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WAXHAW/vaccine1.htm Here is a page with some history...some agenda...and a number of Medical references. You knowdoctor's don't all love the new vaccines, either. http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/immnza1.html Here is a link to links one of which apparently connects autism to mercury in vaccines. Yes, mercury is used in vaccines. Alot. http://www.vaclib.org/links/vaxlinks.htm lastly, lest you think you might be the only one outraged at iatrogenic disease and propaganda, this link about some misinformation on the show ER shows otherwise! http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/21/er_controversy2.htm Happy Reading! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Okay, I think we can both eat some words. It is legislated, but there are religious or physical endangerment clauses (Title 32, Chapter 1, Section 46): http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+32.1-46 http://www.elkokidsdoc.com/Pages/WellChild/W_Ex_ChickPox.html This second site also gives alot of other facts to help out on the issue. Dave --- It's probably NOT state law, but mandated by the State Health Office, an unelected, non-academic bureau w/in State Govt. Of course, if you can provide the law (code and section) from the Commonwealth Law that shows this, I'll eat my words (virtually, of course!) :-) something like 40 states allow for religious exemptions, another 15 allow exemptions on philosophical grounds. That, plus the AAPS' recommendation is enough for me to question any self-appointed Godlike correctness on the part of the State Health Office. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
lol.. I just get more interested in doing my own research and forming my own beliefs the older i get. Worked for me in DBA trenches...it's working for me in life. but..doctor.naw... lol -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah Dr. Ross... you get'em:) KK -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ...Children who have evidence of immunity as demonstrated by laboratory confirmation of immunity or a reliable medical history of disease are exempt from such requirement || This says, basically, that is it really ambiguous.lol After July 1, 2001, all children who have not yet received immunization against hepatitis B shall receive such immunization prior to entering sixth grade || This says, basically, that you have to have HiB before sixth grade ( 12 years old) not..three years old I cannot, in good conscience agree that it is mandated.there are so many loopholes...exemptions...exclusionscaveats... It is a skein of confusion and misinformation, generated by The Board. ## Here is a long, referenced, but very readable article. It says, among other things, that *previous bad reactions* like swelling, bruising, etc are a WARNING SIGN. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WAXHAW/vaccine1.htm Here is a page with some history...some agenda...and a number of Medical references. You knowdoctor's don't all love the new vaccines, either. http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/immnza1.html Here is a link to links one of which apparently connects autism to mercury in vaccines. Yes, mercury is used in vaccines. Alot. http://www.vaclib.org/links/vaxlinks.htm lastly, lest you think you might be the only one outraged at iatrogenic disease and propaganda, this link about some misinformation on the show ER shows otherwise! http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/21/er_controversy2.htm Happy Reading! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Okay, I think we can both eat some words. It is legislated, but there are religious or physical endangerment clauses (Title 32, Chapter 1, Section 46): http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+32.1-46 http://www.elkokidsdoc.com/Pages/WellChild/W_Ex_ChickPox.html This second site also gives alot of other facts to help out on the issue. Dave --- It's probably NOT state law, but mandated by the State Health Office, an unelected, non-academic bureau w/in State Govt. Of course, if you can provide the law (code and section) from the Commonwealth Law that shows this, I'll eat my words (virtually, of course!) :-) something like 40 states allow for religious exemptions, another 15 allow exemptions on philosophical grounds. That, plus the AAPS' recommendation is enough for me to question any self-appointed Godlike correctness on the part of the State Health Office. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be
RE: OT - Vaccines
right...a kid near dirty water...poor hygiene...poor nutrition... well, that kid might benefit from the vaccine for a malaria or what have you that runs rampant in Mexico. Now, in NYC, when was the last case of malaria? And, if you saw it, it would likely be *far* less virulent. (Read Evolution of Infectious Diseases by Paul Ewald.) Are we all going to get the experimental West Nile Vaccine (only kills one-hundreth of a percent of those innoculated!) when it comes out from Pfizer? I haven't even *heard* of a case of tuberculosis..rubellamalaria... polio...diptheria...pertussis.in *years*. And, as you might imagine, I hang around some people that are positively suspicious of vaccines, and so don't get them. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Same here. Besides, this close to the border, I get to see the results of no vaccinations with regularity. I'll give my kids the shots. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Rachel Carmichael wrote: yes there are exceptions and you don't HAVE to give your child the vaccine. on the other hand, NYC will not allow you to register your child for school if you cannot show proof of vaccination. And if you don't send your child to either public school, private school or prove that you are homeschooling properly... that's considered child neglect _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
Title: RE: OT - Vaccines The NY laws allow for religious exemption from vaccinations in the school system: www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/immun/guide/immguid.pdf, page 16, NYS Requirements for School and Post-Secondary Institution Attendance. While the state school representatives may think it's required, it's more likely the person(s) asking for the certificate is unaware the law provides exceptions. A form to register the exception as a substitute for the inoculation document is available through the school systems. The form will not be offered; You have to ask for it. I believe the exemptions exist in all states for all school systems, and I can probably find the supporting documentation if anyone is interested. Without digging any further, it looks like a constitutional issue because all states I've checked have the same exemption. Linda -Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines right...a kid near dirty water...poor hygiene...poor nutrition... well, that kid might benefit from the vaccine for a malaria or what have you that runs rampant in Mexico. Now, in NYC, when was the last case of malaria? And, if you saw it, it would likely be *far* less virulent. (Read Evolution of Infectious Diseases by Paul Ewald.) Are we all going to get the experimental West Nile Vaccine (only kills one-hundreth of a percent of those innoculated!) when it comes out from Pfizer? I haven't even *heard* of a case of tuberculosis..rubellamalaria... polio...diptheria...pertussis.in *years*. And, as you might imagine, I hang around some people that are positively suspicious of vaccines, and so don't get them. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Same here. Besides, this close to the border, I get to see the results of no vaccinations with regularity. I'll give my kids the shots. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX Rachel Carmichael wrote: yes there are exceptions and you don't HAVE to give your child the vaccine. on the other hand, NYC will not allow you to register your child for school if you cannot show proof of vaccination. And if you don't send your child to either public school, private school or prove that you are homeschooling properly... that's considered child neglect _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Scott Shafer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - Vaccines
I'm sure there are (but I'm betting that they are making it very difficult to prove it) From: Mohan, Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:09:05 -0800 I bet you a scotch there are religious exemptions in NYC, too, RC. :) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yes there are exceptions and you don't HAVE to give your child the vaccine. on the other hand, NYC will not allow you to register your child for school if you cannot show proof of vaccination. And if you don't send your child to either public school, private school or prove that you are homeschooling properly... that's considered child neglect From: Hagedorn, Linda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Vaccines Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:13:01 -0800 Remember, there is always a medical exception to any vaccine. If someone has said, 'It's required', remember the US is not a communist state. They cannot hold you down and give you a vaccine, nor can they force you to have your children vaccinated. They will also withhold the knowledge of the exception, so you have to 1) learn the difference between a right and privilege, and 2) examine every demand made upon us. Then it's clear that there are exceptions to every demand that is made which would infringe upon a right :) Linda Hagedorn -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As having a few chicken pox scars (luckily in areas that are not seen) I understand this some. The vaccine also prevents Shingles later in life. Shingles normally happens in older people where your immune system is stressed/suppressed. It is quite painful. Even though I am not very old, I have experienced Shingles and it ain't fun. Both Shingles and Chicken Pox are forms of the Herpes Virus. Cannot remember which simplex, but not symplex 10 I'm sure. And not the same symplex as your STD type Herpes. And if you live in Virginia, it's state law that children are immunized against Chicken Pox. Before age 3 I believe. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L There is a whole new class of vaccines the drug companies are pushing that are supposed to prevent generally non-life-threatening illnesses like Chicken Pox. Merck's Chicken Pox vaccine ad is particularly heinous, as it promotes the vaccine as preventing cosmetic blemishes that result from Chicken Pox. Another in a long line of medicines for healthy people with unknown long-term effects. If you are interested in Vaccine safety and dangers, there is an organization devoted to the subject: National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
RE: OT - Vaccines
Mercury is a component of thimerosal which was used to preserve vaccines. The vaccines being manufactured today in the U.S. do not have thimerosal except for DTAP. It seemed someone noticed we were injecting our children with more Mercury then the EPA allows; thus the move to get the Mercury out. However, it was decided to allow the stocks of vaccines with thimerosal to be used rather than discarded. They used to give Hep-B at birth. This was ridiculous, vaccinating a new born against a disease primarily passed via sexual contact. The reason for doing so was to protect the child from acquiring the virus during birth. They did not test the mother nor mandate it only for mothers most likely to have it. That policy has now changed The most famous autism linkage and vaccinations was with the MMR vaccines. Population studies, however, show no such correlation. MMR was never preserved with thimerosal I have heard of, but have not seen a study indicating a weak one between vaccines with Mercury and autism. Dr. Amy Holmes, a pediatrician in good standing with the Louisiana Medical Board, is claiming fantastic results from chelating Mercury from autistic kids, the younger the better. I am keenly interested, but many such miracles have been claimed before; secretin is the most famous example. The most prevalent theory is autism is caused by lesions in the amygdular region and/or the hippocampus due to multigenic defects. They have caused such injuries to monkey's brains and they do indeed become autistic. If the lesions are bad enough they become autistic and mentally retarded; about 75% of autistic children show some degree of mental retardation. However, it is possible autism has sundry causes; perhaps, Dr. Holmes is on to something. -- Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] riginal Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L lol.. I just get more interested in doing my own research and forming my own beliefs the older i get. Worked for me in DBA trenches...it's working for me in life. but..doctor.naw... lol -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah Dr. Ross... you get'em:) KK -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ...Children who have evidence of immunity as demonstrated by laboratory confirmation of immunity or a reliable medical history of disease are exempt from such requirement || This says, basically, that is it really ambiguous.lol After July 1, 2001, all children who have not yet received immunization against hepatitis B shall receive such immunization prior to entering sixth grade || This says, basically, that you have to have HiB before sixth grade ( 12 years old) not..three years old I cannot, in good conscience agree that it is mandated.there are so many loopholes...exemptions...exclusionscaveats... It is a skein of confusion and misinformation, generated by The Board. ## Here is a long, referenced, but very readable article. It says, among other things, that *previous bad reactions* like swelling, bruising, etc are a WARNING SIGN. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WAXHAW/vaccine1.htm Here is a page with some history...some agenda...and a number of Medical references. You knowdoctor's don't all love the new vaccines, either. http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/immnza1.html Here is a link to links one of which apparently connects autism to mercury in vaccines. Yes, mercury is used in vaccines. Alot. http://www.vaclib.org/links/vaxlinks.htm lastly, lest you think you might be the only one outraged at iatrogenic disease and propaganda, this link about some misinformation on the show ER shows otherwise! http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/21/er_controversy2.htm Happy Reading! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Okay, I think we can both eat some words. It is legislated, but there are religious or physical endangerment clauses (Title 32, Chapter 1, Section 46): http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+32.1-46 http://www.elkokidsdoc.com/Pages/WellChild/W_Ex_ChickPox.html This second site also gives alot of other facts to help out on the issue. Dave --- It's probably NOT state law, but mandated by the State Health Office, an unelected, non-academic bureau w/in State Govt. Of course, if you can provide the law (code and section) from the Commonwealth Law that shows this, I'll eat my words (virtually, of course!) :-) something like 40
