RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Title: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? Thanks for the link, I love that story:)) KK -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jacques KilchoerSent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 6:28 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > -Original Message- > From: Kevin Kostyszyn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Hahah, the software, the ship had to be towed back to port:) > However, not > sure if it was the coast guard or the navy, but I am going > with the coast > guard. Navy ship USS Yorktown. http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htm This article (in Scientific American) says that the problem may have been caused by 3rd party software, not NT. http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.html
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Actually, I think that was the Navy. I remember discussions on this. It happened more then once. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hahah, the software, the ship had to be towed back to port:) However, not sure if it was the coast guard or the navy, but I am going with the coast guard. KK -Original Message- Walt Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The software or the ship? --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On one of their newer ships they were using NT, and it froze up a couple of times. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Give the man an onion! Or five bees for a quarter On June 28, 2001 11:31 am, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote: > You got me on this one, but my guess would be Grandpa Simpson said > that one:) > KK > > -Original Message- > Conron > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:18 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > On June 27, 2001 03:05 pm, Mustafa wrote: > > True Fact: Unix was first invented in 1913 by my great great > > uncle (twice removed) Ralph Unix. Ralph worked with him as THE > > first DBA. > > > > I bet most of you didn't know that the Unix server Ralph is > > talking about is powered by steam engine! ;-) > > > > of course, he had an onion tied to his belt, because that was > the style of the time > > > > > > Cheers, > GC > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Gregory Conron > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > --- >- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the > name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also > send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gregory Conron INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
ahhahahahaha -Original Message- William Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 6:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Mohan, Ross" wrote: > > yea, they could call it the gpF-22 then.:) give the phrase "blue screen of death" a whole new meaning.;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ "Search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to. I'll start with radio shack." - Lisa Simpson -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
It's funny what this thread has turned into!!! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 6:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L that's my job, soldier: Humor Mach One. Now, at ease, and smoke 'em if you got 'em. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:47 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ohhh...that was good, wish I would have thought of that:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yea, they could call it the gpF-22 then.:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OH MAN, the F-22 with NT, oh jeez...Hey I love NT, but the amount of times I have had to reboot a machine, I couldn't imagine that in an F-22. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dick. || Thanks for chiming in! On number one, those Unisys workstations were standardized over all of the services since GSA singed a VERY large contract for them. We had them all over the place in the USAF as well. || Well..ok...but I never saw any in the Navy. But I was in what is now called SPAWAR...maybe they didn't dig those GSA contracts. The ones you and I saw where the SW-II. Since then, they've got SW-III in. I wonder if they still call them "snotboxes" since they kinda looked like a tissue box On the second point, your dead right. I do not remember the ship involved, but it turned out to have been a SQL*Server bug that gpf'd the OS. The totality of the problem was that the ship's radar, navigation, weapons control, and digital electronic control system were all knocked out at the same time. Can you say "OOPS!!".The ship returned to port under manual control without incident. Seems someone at the Navy was a little old fashioned in their thinking. || Yeaabout five years ago? SS6.0 maybe? BTW: My source of info here is the Air Force News Agency's daily news letter. They had a good laugh I'm sure since I understand that the F-22 was suppose to be NT driven as well initially. || Don't you mean they had a good "AN-UYK" over it? Better ideas I do believe have prevailed. || I can't imagine making anything mission critical either under vanilla, dos, unix, or nt. VMS maybe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see th
RE: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
that's my job, soldier: Humor Mach One. Now, at ease, and smoke 'em if you got 'em. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:47 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ohhh...that was good, wish I would have thought of that:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yea, they could call it the gpF-22 then.:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OH MAN, the F-22 with NT, oh jeez...Hey I love NT, but the amount of times I have had to reboot a machine, I couldn't imagine that in an F-22. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dick. || Thanks for chiming in! On number one, those Unisys workstations were standardized over all of the services since GSA singed a VERY large contract for them. We had them all over the place in the USAF as well. || Well..ok...but I never saw any in the Navy. But I was in what is now called SPAWAR...maybe they didn't dig those GSA contracts. The ones you and I saw where the SW-II. Since then, they've got SW-III in. I wonder if they still call them "snotboxes" since they kinda looked like a tissue box On the second point, your dead right. I do not remember the ship involved, but it turned out to have been a SQL*Server bug that gpf'd the OS. The totality of the problem was that the ship's radar, navigation, weapons control, and digital electronic control system were all knocked out at the same time. Can you say "OOPS!!".The ship returned to port under manual control without incident. Seems someone at the Navy was a little old fashioned in their thinking. || Yeaabout five years ago? SS6.0 maybe? BTW: My source of info here is the Air Force News Agency's daily news letter. They had a good laugh I'm sure since I understand that the F-22 was suppose to be NT driven as well initially. || Don't you mean they had a good "AN-UYK" over it? Better ideas I do believe have prevailed. || I can't imagine making anything mission critical either under vanilla, dos, unix, or nt. VMS maybe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
"Mohan, Ross" wrote: > > yea, they could call it the gpF-22 then.:) give the phrase "blue screen of death" a whole new meaning.;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ "Search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to. I'll start with radio shack." - Lisa Simpson -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Ohhh...that was good, wish I would have thought of that:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L yea, they could call it the gpF-22 then.:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OH MAN, the F-22 with NT, oh jeez...Hey I love NT, but the amount of times I have had to reboot a machine, I couldn't imagine that in an F-22. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dick. || Thanks for chiming in! On number one, those Unisys workstations were standardized over all of the services since GSA singed a VERY large contract for them. We had them all over the place in the USAF as well. || Well..ok...but I never saw any in the Navy. But I was in what is now called SPAWAR...maybe they didn't dig those GSA contracts. The ones you and I saw where the SW-II. Since then, they've got SW-III in. I wonder if they still call them "snotboxes" since they kinda looked like a tissue box On the second point, your dead right. I do not remember the ship involved, but it turned out to have been a SQL*Server bug that gpf'd the OS. The totality of the problem was that the ship's radar, navigation, weapons control, and digital electronic control system were all knocked out at the same time. Can you say "OOPS!!".The ship returned to port under manual control without incident. Seems someone at the Navy was a little old fashioned in their thinking. || Yeaabout five years ago? SS6.0 maybe? BTW: My source of info here is the Air Force News Agency's daily news letter. They had a good laugh I'm sure since I understand that the F-22 was suppose to be NT driven as well initially. || Don't you mean they had a good "AN-UYK" over it? Better ideas I do believe have prevailed. || I can't imagine making anything mission critical either under vanilla, dos, unix, or nt. VMS maybe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
yea, they could call it the gpF-22 then.:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OH MAN, the F-22 with NT, oh jeez...Hey I love NT, but the amount of times I have had to reboot a machine, I couldn't imagine that in an F-22. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dick. || Thanks for chiming in! On number one, those Unisys workstations were standardized over all of the services since GSA singed a VERY large contract for them. We had them all over the place in the USAF as well. || Well..ok...but I never saw any in the Navy. But I was in what is now called SPAWAR...maybe they didn't dig those GSA contracts. The ones you and I saw where the SW-II. Since then, they've got SW-III in. I wonder if they still call them "snotboxes" since they kinda looked like a tissue box On the second point, your dead right. I do not remember the ship involved, but it turned out to have been a SQL*Server bug that gpf'd the OS. The totality of the problem was that the ship's radar, navigation, weapons control, and digital electronic control system were all knocked out at the same time. Can you say "OOPS!!".The ship returned to port under manual control without incident. Seems someone at the Navy was a little old fashioned in their thinking. || Yeaabout five years ago? SS6.0 maybe? BTW: My source of info here is the Air Force News Agency's daily news letter. They had a good laugh I'm sure since I understand that the F-22 was suppose to be NT driven as well initially. || Don't you mean they had a good "AN-UYK" over it? Better ideas I do believe have prevailed. || I can't imagine making anything mission critical either under vanilla, dos, unix, or nt. VMS maybe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
OH MAN, the F-22 with NT, oh jeez...Hey I love NT, but the amount of times I have had to reboot a machine, I couldn't imagine that in an F-22. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dick. || Thanks for chiming in! On number one, those Unisys workstations were standardized over all of the services since GSA singed a VERY large contract for them. We had them all over the place in the USAF as well. || Well..ok...but I never saw any in the Navy. But I was in what is now called SPAWAR...maybe they didn't dig those GSA contracts. The ones you and I saw where the SW-II. Since then, they've got SW-III in. I wonder if they still call them "snotboxes" since they kinda looked like a tissue box On the second point, your dead right. I do not remember the ship involved, but it turned out to have been a SQL*Server bug that gpf'd the OS. The totality of the problem was that the ship's radar, navigation, weapons control, and digital electronic control system were all knocked out at the same time. Can you say "OOPS!!".The ship returned to port under manual control without incident. Seems someone at the Navy was a little old fashioned in their thinking. || Yeaabout five years ago? SS6.0 maybe? BTW: My source of info here is the Air Force News Agency's daily news letter. They had a good laugh I'm sure since I understand that the F-22 was suppose to be NT driven as well initially. || Don't you mean they had a good "AN-UYK" over it? Better ideas I do believe have prevailed. || I can't imagine making anything mission critical either under vanilla, dos, unix, or nt. VMS maybe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Dick. || Thanks for chiming in! On number one, those Unisys workstations were standardized over all of the services since GSA singed a VERY large contract for them. We had them all over the place in the USAF as well. || Well..ok...but I never saw any in the Navy. But I was in what is now called SPAWAR...maybe they didn't dig those GSA contracts. The ones you and I saw where the SW-II. Since then, they've got SW-III in. I wonder if they still call them "snotboxes" since they kinda looked like a tissue box On the second point, your dead right. I do not remember the ship involved, but it turned out to have been a SQL*Server bug that gpf'd the OS. The totality of the problem was that the ship's radar, navigation, weapons control, and digital electronic control system were all knocked out at the same time. Can you say "OOPS!!".The ship returned to port under manual control without incident. Seems someone at the Navy was a little old fashioned in their thinking. || Yeaabout five years ago? SS6.0 maybe? BTW: My source of info here is the Air Force News Agency's daily news letter. They had a good laugh I'm sure since I understand that the F-22 was suppose to be NT driven as well initially. || Don't you mean they had a good "AN-UYK" over it? Better ideas I do believe have prevailed. || I can't imagine making anything mission critical either under vanilla, dos, unix, or nt. VMS maybe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Sounds a little more familiar, I am pretty sure that it was a destroyer. I think I may have to do some investigating:) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think it was the Navy. The US Coast Guard has something called USCG SW-III (Standard Workstation III) that is NT 4.0 on Unisys. If you have ever worked at the Coast Guard, you know these boxes are EVERYWHERE. Some people even have two. They are highly standardized, well above average in MTBF and MTTR, and the Coast Guard runs on them. I ::think:: (but could easily be wrong) that the Navy was trying to integrate an NT box with a disparate realtime targeting system and when the NT box GPF'ed, it downed the targeting radar. Prudence dictated the ship head back to port for repairs, radar being directly related to a destroyers seaworthiness. But, again, this could be WAY WRONG, so two grains of salt, ok guys? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hahah, the software, the ship had to be towed back to port:) However, not sure if it was the coast guard or the navy, but I am going with the coast guard. KK -Original Message- Walt Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The software or the ship? --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On one of their newer ships they were using NT, and it froze up a couple of times. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
I think it was the Navy. The US Coast Guard has something called USCG SW-III (Standard Workstation III) that is NT 4.0 on Unisys. If you have ever worked at the Coast Guard, you know these boxes are EVERYWHERE. Some people even have two. They are highly standardized, well above average in MTBF and MTTR, and the Coast Guard runs on them. I ::think:: (but could easily be wrong) that the Navy was trying to integrate an NT box with a disparate realtime targeting system and when the NT box GPF'ed, it downed the targeting radar. Prudence dictated the ship head back to port for repairs, radar being directly related to a destroyers seaworthiness. But, again, this could be WAY WRONG, so two grains of salt, ok guys? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hahah, the software, the ship had to be towed back to port:) However, not sure if it was the coast guard or the navy, but I am going with the coast guard. KK -Original Message- Walt Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The software or the ship? --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On one of their newer ships they were using NT, and it froze up a couple of times. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Interesting how the concept of history is different for science vs. technology. Henry -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guy, Sidestepping the fact that you targeted your excellent reply to a person who has been disinvited from the list, I have to say it's one of the best posts I have read in a while ( on this "my daddy is going to beat up your daddy" OS trend ). I think most of us got into and stayed in this business because we like technology...tinkering...systems..figuring out how things work and making them better. Somewhere along the line, we adopted "brand name" allegiances and left behind our raw enthusiasm. Just my opinion...no bad vibes intended. Personally, I am interested in seeing what the next twenty years bring. I can't wait to talk with my kids about the newest mindblowing technology in their worldwouldn't mind working on it,either and I am pretty sure my kids will laugh at me when I told them I actually used VMS, DOS, NT, and Unix. I might even get interviewed for a Social Studies report on history. Now *that's* living! - Ross -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My $0.02: Unisys will build you a 99.999% available system, on NT. Boeing and NASDAQ, two very serious organizations, use NT for their line of business. I could go on and on, but I will summarize: Whatever your Unix box can do, my old VMS box can do better. Uptime, performance tuning, clustering, security, the works. I say this not to brag, but merely to illustrate that if you let a sentimental attachment to a technology cloud your judgment, you are destined for the scrap heap. If I had ca$h money to spend on new technology, I would consider your advice tainted by a clear lack of objectivity. The issue is, the right tool for the right job. It doesn't matter if technology XYZ is the greatest. What matter is, can I get people to work on it? Can I afford the hardware to run it on? Etc... there are a lot of businesses that do not and will never need the kind of computing power that NASDAQ need... and NT is good enough for them. Just like the average athlete doesn't need the last Air Zoom Super Whiz, but they'll buy a pair of Nikes anyway. Personally, I think that OSs are just those silly things you need to run Oracle on, and I can't wait until everything is an Oracle Appliance! :0) g -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this m
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Hahah, the software, the ship had to be towed back to port:) However, not sure if it was the coast guard or the navy, but I am going with the coast guard. KK -Original Message- Walt Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The software or the ship? --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On one of their newer ships they were using NT, and it froze up a couple of times. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
The software or the ship? --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On one of their newer ships they were using NT, and it froze up a couple of times. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
wonderful. Someone should let George Clooney know. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On one of their newer ships they were using NT, and it froze up a couple of times. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is an interesting thread which seems to reappear at regular intervals. I find it hard to believe that NT could be made 99.999% available at the same cost and administration duties as any UNIX based server. Now, if I cluster enough machines together I can probably make any Operating System/Hardware combination viable. I think a lot of people have witnessed a UNIX box that has not been down, whether scheduled or unscheduled, for two years or more at a time. I've yet to see an NT box that can say the same. Of course, I mean an NT box that is doing some real work, not just a file server, mail server or the like. Put Oracle on NT and let a few hundred users hit it for a couple of months and show me it hasn't crashed. Now, take the same box and put Linux on it, combined with Oracle and perform the same test. I think we all know what the results would be. Even Microsoft admits the average "reboot" time between Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 went all the way up to seven days. Wow, what a marketing gimmick they've got there. Of course this discussion fails to mention the fact the Windows NT is inherently more insecure than UNIX. I suspect that all of our data is worth more that the equipment it sits on. Just my two cents worth. Help me..I'm booting..booting (Darn that NT!!) :) --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My $0.02: Unisys will build you a 99.999% available system, on NT. Boeing and NASDAQ, two very serious organizations, use NT for their line of business. I could go on and on, but I will summarize: Whatever your Unix box can do, my old VMS box can do better. Uptime, performance tuning, clustering, security, the works. I say this not to brag, but merely to illustrate that if you let a sentimental attachment to a technology cloud your judgment, you are destined for the scrap heap. If I had ca$h money to spend on new technology, I would consider your advice tainted by a clear lack of objectivity. The issue is, the right tool for the right job. It doesn't matter if technology XYZ is the greatest. What matter is, can I get people to work on it? Can I afford the hardware to run it on? Etc... there are a lot of businesses that do not and will never need the kind of computing power that NASDAQ need... and NT is good enough for them. Just like the average athlete doesn't need the last Air Zoom Super Whiz, but they'll buy a pair of Nikes anyway. Personally, I think that OSs are just those silly things you need to run Oracle on, and I can't wait until everything is an Oracle Appliance! :0) g -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists --
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On one of their newer ships they were using NT, and it froze up a couple of times. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is an interesting thread which seems to reappear at regular intervals. I find it hard to believe that NT could be made 99.999% available at the same cost and administration duties as any UNIX based server. Now, if I cluster enough machines together I can probably make any Operating System/Hardware combination viable. I think a lot of people have witnessed a UNIX box that has not been down, whether scheduled or unscheduled, for two years or more at a time. I've yet to see an NT box that can say the same. Of course, I mean an NT box that is doing some real work, not just a file server, mail server or the like. Put Oracle on NT and let a few hundred users hit it for a couple of months and show me it hasn't crashed. Now, take the same box and put Linux on it, combined with Oracle and perform the same test. I think we all know what the results would be. Even Microsoft admits the average "reboot" time between Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 went all the way up to seven days. Wow, what a marketing gimmick they've got there. Of course this discussion fails to mention the fact the Windows NT is inherently more insecure than UNIX. I suspect that all of our data is worth more that the equipment it sits on. Just my two cents worth. Help me..I'm booting..booting (Darn that NT!!) :) --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My $0.02: Unisys will build you a 99.999% available system, on NT. Boeing and NASDAQ, two very serious organizations, use NT for their line of business. I could go on and on, but I will summarize: Whatever your Unix box can do, my old VMS box can do better. Uptime, performance tuning, clustering, security, the works. I say this not to brag, but merely to illustrate that if you let a sentimental attachment to a technology cloud your judgment, you are destined for the scrap heap. If I had ca$h money to spend on new technology, I would consider your advice tainted by a clear lack of objectivity. The issue is, the right tool for the right job. It doesn't matter if technology XYZ is the greatest. What matter is, can I get people to work on it? Can I afford the hardware to run it on? Etc... there are a lot of businesses that do not and will never need the kind of computing power that NASDAQ need... and NT is good enough for them. Just like the average athlete doesn't need the last Air Zoom Super Whiz, but they'll buy a pair of Nikes anyway. Personally, I think that OSs are just those silly things you need to run Oracle on, and I can't wait until everything is an Oracle Appliance! :0) g -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGur
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
I have had problems with my subscription to O mag. I will subscribe, recieve a copy then not recieve anything for 5 or 6 months - till I remember to re-subscribe. Then I'll get a copy and then nothing till I re-subscribe again. It has been that way for about 3 years. Terry Robertson Lee - lerobe wrote: > erm who Marks company or mine ??? > > I haven't received one of those bloody magazines for months despite > resubscribing. > > -Original Message- > Sent: 28 June 2001 16:19 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Lee, > > so why didn't they quote you in the article in the latest Oracle magazine? > > :) > > Rachel > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Terry Ball INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
The Coast guard uses Unisys, too...but i don't know where NT fits in to their front line systems. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is an interesting thread which seems to reappear at regular intervals. I find it hard to believe that NT could be made 99.999% available at the same cost and administration duties as any UNIX based server. Now, if I cluster enough machines together I can probably make any Operating System/Hardware combination viable. I think a lot of people have witnessed a UNIX box that has not been down, whether scheduled or unscheduled, for two years or more at a time. I've yet to see an NT box that can say the same. Of course, I mean an NT box that is doing some real work, not just a file server, mail server or the like. Put Oracle on NT and let a few hundred users hit it for a couple of months and show me it hasn't crashed. Now, take the same box and put Linux on it, combined with Oracle and perform the same test. I think we all know what the results would be. Even Microsoft admits the average "reboot" time between Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 went all the way up to seven days. Wow, what a marketing gimmick they've got there. Of course this discussion fails to mention the fact the Windows NT is inherently more insecure than UNIX. I suspect that all of our data is worth more that the equipment it sits on. Just my two cents worth. Help me..I'm booting..booting (Darn that NT!!) :) --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My $0.02: Unisys will build you a 99.999% available system, on NT. Boeing and NASDAQ, two very serious organizations, use NT for their line of business. I could go on and on, but I will summarize: Whatever your Unix box can do, my old VMS box can do better. Uptime, performance tuning, clustering, security, the works. I say this not to brag, but merely to illustrate that if you let a sentimental attachment to a technology cloud your judgment, you are destined for the scrap heap. If I had ca$h money to spend on new technology, I would consider your advice tainted by a clear lack of objectivity. The issue is, the right tool for the right job. It doesn't matter if technology XYZ is the greatest. What matter is, can I get people to work on it? Can I afford the hardware to run it on? Etc... there are a lot of businesses that do not and will never need the kind of computing power that NASDAQ need... and NT is good enough for them. Just like the average athlete doesn't need the last Air Zoom Super Whiz, but they'll buy a pair of Nikes anyway. Personally, I think that OSs are just those silly things you need to run Oracle on, and I can't wait until everything is an Oracle Appliance! :0) g -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other informatio
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
My $0.02: Unisys will build you a 99.999% available system, on NT. Boeing and NASDAQ, two very serious organizations, use NT for their line of business. I could go on and on, but I will summarize: Whatever your Unix box can do, my old VMS box can do better. Uptime, performance tuning, clustering, security, the works. I say this not to brag, but merely to illustrate that if you let a sentimental attachment to a technology cloud your judgment, you are destined for the scrap heap. If I had ca$h money to spend on new technology, I would consider your advice tainted by a clear lack of objectivity. The issue is, the right tool for the right job. It doesn't matter if technology XYZ is the greatest. What matter is, can I get people to work on it? Can I afford the hardware to run it on? Etc... there are a lot of businesses that do not and will never need the kind of computing power that NASDAQ need... and NT is good enough for them. Just like the average athlete doesn't need the last Air Zoom Super Whiz, but they'll buy a pair of Nikes anyway. Personally, I think that OSs are just those silly things you need to run Oracle on, and I can't wait until everything is an Oracle Appliance! :0) g -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Guy, Sidestepping the fact that you targeted your excellent reply to a person who has been disinvited from the list, I have to say it's one of the best posts I have read in a while ( on this "my daddy is going to beat up your daddy" OS trend ). I think most of us got into and stayed in this business because we like technology...tinkering...systems..figuring out how things work and making them better. Somewhere along the line, we adopted "brand name" allegiances and left behind our raw enthusiasm. Just my opinion...no bad vibes intended. Personally, I am interested in seeing what the next twenty years bring. I can't wait to talk with my kids about the newest mindblowing technology in their worldwouldn't mind working on it,either and I am pretty sure my kids will laugh at me when I told them I actually used VMS, DOS, NT, and Unix. I might even get interviewed for a Social Studies report on history. Now *that's* living! - Ross -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My $0.02: Unisys will build you a 99.999% available system, on NT. Boeing and NASDAQ, two very serious organizations, use NT for their line of business. I could go on and on, but I will summarize: Whatever your Unix box can do, my old VMS box can do better. Uptime, performance tuning, clustering, security, the works. I say this not to brag, but merely to illustrate that if you let a sentimental attachment to a technology cloud your judgment, you are destined for the scrap heap. If I had ca$h money to spend on new technology, I would consider your advice tainted by a clear lack of objectivity. The issue is, the right tool for the right job. It doesn't matter if technology XYZ is the greatest. What matter is, can I get people to work on it? Can I afford the hardware to run it on? Etc... there are a lot of businesses that do not and will never need the kind of computing power that NASDAQ need... and NT is good enough for them. Just like the average athlete doesn't need the last Air Zoom Super Whiz, but they'll buy a pair of Nikes anyway. Personally, I think that OSs are just those silly things you need to run Oracle on, and I can't wait until everything is an Oracle Appliance! :0) g -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
yours dear >From: Robertson Lee - lerobe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:36:42 -0800 > >erm who Marks company or mine ??? > >I haven't received one of those bloody magazines for months despite >resubscribing. > >-Original Message- >Sent: 28 June 2001 16:19 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Lee, > >so why didn't they quote you in the article in the latest Oracle magazine? > >:) > >Rachel > > > >From: Robertson Lee - lerobe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:24:43 -0800 > > > > > >I would imagine once the American economy eventually sorts itself out (I > >work for an American company by the way), appropriate funds will be > >released > >and I will be involved in the purchase of the aforementioned tools. > > > >Regards > > > >Lee > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: 28 June 2001 12:26 > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >Rachel, > > > >In the session detail screen, it will list all of the SQL currently in >the > >SQLAREA for that session, so if you don't catch the blocked session > >straight > >away (away from your desk or out to lunch), you can in fact miss the SQL >as > >it may have been aged out of the SQLAREA. > > > >The way I would use the tool though would be like this: > > > >1) Set up the standard rule - ORA_GLOB_BLOCKED_SESSIONS with a threshold >of > >1 (Tell me whenever a session is blocked) > > > >The Analyzer agent will then monitor the instance on a REFRESH (x >sec/min) > >basis for any blocked sessions. > > > >2) Set up an Event Handler under the Alerter Agent that fires off an > >"External" Action (execute a program or a script), that will fire off a > >script that will select all SQL for that user, and then email the output >to > >your email address, showing you the username etc. with all SQL they have > >executed. > > > >This way you are *almost* guaranteed to catch the SQL they are using. I >say > >*almost* as there is that .1% chance that somebody has got a stupidly >small > >SQLAREA, and a HELL of a lot of SQL going through it.. Not very likely at > >all, given the time the Alerter agent would take to perform all of this, > >and > >I'm sure your instances are set up a HELL of a lot better than that! :) > > > >Then there is the possibility of a User Defined Collection - but that's > >another story that is too long for this list :) > > > >HTH > > > >Mark > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Carmichael > >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 05:14 > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >Mark, > > > >You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the > >blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long > >time > >and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has > >happened in the meantime > > > >Rachel > > > > > > > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > >-- > >Author: Mark Leith > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > > >The information contained in this communication is > >confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient > >named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader > >of this message is not the intended recipient, you are > >hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or > >copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. > >If you have received this communication in error, please > >
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
This is an interesting thread which seems to reappear at regular intervals. I find it hard to believe that NT could be made 99.999% available at the same cost and administration duties as any UNIX based server. Now, if I cluster enough machines together I can probably make any Operating System/Hardware combination viable. I think a lot of people have witnessed a UNIX box that has not been down, whether scheduled or unscheduled, for two years or more at a time. I've yet to see an NT box that can say the same. Of course, I mean an NT box that is doing some real work, not just a file server, mail server or the like. Put Oracle on NT and let a few hundred users hit it for a couple of months and show me it hasn't crashed. Now, take the same box and put Linux on it, combined with Oracle and perform the same test. I think we all know what the results would be. Even Microsoft admits the average "reboot" time between Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 went all the way up to seven days. Wow, what a marketing gimmick they've got there. Of course this discussion fails to mention the fact the Windows NT is inherently more insecure than UNIX. I suspect that all of our data is worth more that the equipment it sits on. Just my two cents worth. Help me..I'm booting..booting (Darn that NT!!) :) --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My $0.02: Unisys will build you a 99.999% available system, on NT. Boeing and NASDAQ, two very serious organizations, use NT for their line of business. I could go on and on, but I will summarize: Whatever your Unix box can do, my old VMS box can do better. Uptime, performance tuning, clustering, security, the works. I say this not to brag, but merely to illustrate that if you let a sentimental attachment to a technology cloud your judgment, you are destined for the scrap heap. If I had ca$h money to spend on new technology, I would consider your advice tainted by a clear lack of objectivity. The issue is, the right tool for the right job. It doesn't matter if technology XYZ is the greatest. What matter is, can I get people to work on it? Can I afford the hardware to run it on? Etc... there are a lot of businesses that do not and will never need the kind of computing power that NASDAQ need... and NT is good enough for them. Just like the average athlete doesn't need the last Air Zoom Super Whiz, but they'll buy a pair of Nikes anyway. Personally, I think that OSs are just those silly things you need to run Oracle on, and I can't wait until everything is an Oracle Appliance! :0) g -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
erm who Marks company or mine ??? I haven't received one of those bloody magazines for months despite resubscribing. -Original Message- Sent: 28 June 2001 16:19 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lee, so why didn't they quote you in the article in the latest Oracle magazine? :) Rachel >From: Robertson Lee - lerobe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:24:43 -0800 >I would imagine once the American economy eventually sorts itself out (I >work for an American company by the way), appropriate funds will be >released >and I will be involved in the purchase of the aforementioned tools. > >Regards > >Lee > > >-Original Message- >Sent: 28 June 2001 12:26 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Rachel, > >In the session detail screen, it will list all of the SQL currently in the >SQLAREA for that session, so if you don't catch the blocked session >straight >away (away from your desk or out to lunch), you can in fact miss the SQL as >it may have been aged out of the SQLAREA. > >The way I would use the tool though would be like this: > >1) Set up the standard rule - ORA_GLOB_BLOCKED_SESSIONS with a threshold of >1 (Tell me whenever a session is blocked) > >The Analyzer agent will then monitor the instance on a REFRESH (x sec/min) >basis for any blocked sessions. > >2) Set up an Event Handler under the Alerter Agent that fires off an >"External" Action (execute a program or a script), that will fire off a >script that will select all SQL for that user, and then email the output to >your email address, showing you the username etc. with all SQL they have >executed. > >This way you are *almost* guaranteed to catch the SQL they are using. I say >*almost* as there is that .1% chance that somebody has got a stupidly small >SQLAREA, and a HELL of a lot of SQL going through it.. Not very likely at >all, given the time the Alerter agent would take to perform all of this, >and >I'm sure your instances are set up a HELL of a lot better than that! :) > >Then there is the possibility of a User Defined Collection - but that's >another story that is too long for this list :) > >HTH > >Mark > > >-Original Message- >Carmichael >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 05:14 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Mark, > >You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the >blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long >time >and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has >happened in the meantime > >Rachel > > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Mark Leith > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > >The information contained in this communication is >confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient >named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader >of this message is not the intended recipient, you are >hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or >copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. >If you have received this communication in error, please >re-send this communication to the sender and delete the >original message or any copy of it from your computer >system. >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other informat
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
*shrug* you have to reboot a Sun if you want to change the number of file descriptors. NT assigns them dynamically. Does that mean that Unix now isn't a suitable OS either? A few clues please, people. This discussion has become over-emotive. g -Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 3:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi, The GUI is nice and very productive , but how an OS could pretend to be 24x7 when if you change configuration you must restart the computer. Regards, Antonio Belloni -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
nope, sorry, I can't do that tools that would work well for me might not for you and I can't in good conscience endorse one thing over another. Evaluate on your own, check out Mark's tools, Quest's, Embarcadero, Precise, BMC I know I'm missing someone here, it's not intentional. Different tools may be too expensive for me but not you. Or vice versa. Or too difficult for me to configure but not you. And so on. >From: "Charlie Mengler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:56:22 -0800 > > > >Rachel Carmichael wrote: > > > > cool, now if I could get them to open their wallets. boy are there >toys > > I want to buy for here! > > > >Since I and others respect your opinion(s), >what tools would you buy & why them instead of others? >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Charlie Mengler > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Rachel Carmichael wrote: > > cool, now if I could get them to open their wallets. boy are there toys > I want to buy for here! > Since I and others respect your opinion(s), what tools would you buy & why them instead of others? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Charlie Mengler INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001,Rachel Carmichael scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->cool, now if I could get them to open their wallets. boy are there toys ->I want to buy for here! from you lips to god's ears!;-) and the stuff i want to buy for here is stuff we really need to save time doing the stuff they want us to do.;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ "Search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to. I'll start with radio shack." - Lisa Simpson -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Lee, so why didn't they quote you in the article in the latest Oracle magazine? :) Rachel >From: Robertson Lee - lerobe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:24:43 -0800 >I would imagine once the American economy eventually sorts itself out (I >work for an American company by the way), appropriate funds will be >released >and I will be involved in the purchase of the aforementioned tools. > >Regards > >Lee > > >-Original Message- >Sent: 28 June 2001 12:26 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Rachel, > >In the session detail screen, it will list all of the SQL currently in the >SQLAREA for that session, so if you don't catch the blocked session >straight >away (away from your desk or out to lunch), you can in fact miss the SQL as >it may have been aged out of the SQLAREA. > >The way I would use the tool though would be like this: > >1) Set up the standard rule - ORA_GLOB_BLOCKED_SESSIONS with a threshold of >1 (Tell me whenever a session is blocked) > >The Analyzer agent will then monitor the instance on a REFRESH (x sec/min) >basis for any blocked sessions. > >2) Set up an Event Handler under the Alerter Agent that fires off an >"External" Action (execute a program or a script), that will fire off a >script that will select all SQL for that user, and then email the output to >your email address, showing you the username etc. with all SQL they have >executed. > >This way you are *almost* guaranteed to catch the SQL they are using. I say >*almost* as there is that .1% chance that somebody has got a stupidly small >SQLAREA, and a HELL of a lot of SQL going through it.. Not very likely at >all, given the time the Alerter agent would take to perform all of this, >and >I'm sure your instances are set up a HELL of a lot better than that! :) > >Then there is the possibility of a User Defined Collection - but that's >another story that is too long for this list :) > >HTH > >Mark > > >-Original Message- >Carmichael >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 05:14 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Mark, > >You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the >blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long >time >and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has >happened in the meantime > >Rachel > > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Mark Leith > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > >The information contained in this communication is >confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient >named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader >of this message is not the intended recipient, you are >hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or >copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. >If you have received this communication in error, please >re-send this communication to the sender and delete the >original message or any copy of it from your computer >system. >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Thanks Lee! It's always great to hear when people enjoy using your products! And Lee is right - the products don't look as nice as some of Quest's tools do (Spotlight for instance), but then they are not ugly either, and in most cases, all provide the same if not more functionality for less, as you rightly pointed out. We have had the odd person go for Quest's tools just because they were prettier though! :) Go figure.. Cheers again Lee.. Mark -Original Message- Lee - lerobe Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 03:25 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Just my 2p worth but I have been evaluating a few of the tools that Marks company provides and both me my colleagues (developers and DBAs) found them to be top notch (erm...excellent if this doesn't translate well) and basically a fraction of the cost that Quest etc. charge. I have spent a lot of time evaluating Quests tools as well (and many others). I won't lie and I'm sure Mark will not be offended but the look of the whole thing isn't as pretty as Quests stuff (probably effects the price !!) but gives you the same information and in many cases delves a whole lot deeper. I would imagine once the American economy eventually sorts itself out (I work for an American company by the way), appropriate funds will be released and I will be involved in the purchase of the aforementioned tools. Regards Lee -Original Message- Sent: 28 June 2001 12:26 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Rachel, In the session detail screen, it will list all of the SQL currently in the SQLAREA for that session, so if you don't catch the blocked session straight away (away from your desk or out to lunch), you can in fact miss the SQL as it may have been aged out of the SQLAREA. The way I would use the tool though would be like this: 1) Set up the standard rule - ORA_GLOB_BLOCKED_SESSIONS with a threshold of 1 (Tell me whenever a session is blocked) The Analyzer agent will then monitor the instance on a REFRESH (x sec/min) basis for any blocked sessions. 2) Set up an Event Handler under the Alerter Agent that fires off an "External" Action (execute a program or a script), that will fire off a script that will select all SQL for that user, and then email the output to your email address, showing you the username etc. with all SQL they have executed. This way you are *almost* guaranteed to catch the SQL they are using. I say *almost* as there is that .1% chance that somebody has got a stupidly small SQLAREA, and a HELL of a lot of SQL going through it.. Not very likely at all, given the time the Alerter agent would take to perform all of this, and I'm sure your instances are set up a HELL of a lot better than that! :) Then there is the possibility of a User Defined Collection - but that's another story that is too long for this list :) HTH Mark -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 05:14 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Mark, You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long time and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has happened in the meantime Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send t
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
cool, now if I could get them to open their wallets. boy are there toys I want to buy for here! >From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:25:55 -0800 > >Rachel, > >In the session detail screen, it will list all of the SQL currently in the >SQLAREA for that session, so if you don't catch the blocked session >straight >away (away from your desk or out to lunch), you can in fact miss the SQL as >it may have been aged out of the SQLAREA. > >The way I would use the tool though would be like this: > >1) Set up the standard rule - ORA_GLOB_BLOCKED_SESSIONS with a threshold of >1 (Tell me whenever a session is blocked) > >The Analyzer agent will then monitor the instance on a REFRESH (x sec/min) >basis for any blocked sessions. > >2) Set up an Event Handler under the Alerter Agent that fires off an >"External" Action (execute a program or a script), that will fire off a >script that will select all SQL for that user, and then email the output to >your email address, showing you the username etc. with all SQL they have >executed. > >This way you are *almost* guaranteed to catch the SQL they are using. I say >*almost* as there is that .1% chance that somebody has got a stupidly small >SQLAREA, and a HELL of a lot of SQL going through it.. Not very likely at >all, given the time the Alerter agent would take to perform all of this, >and >I'm sure your instances are set up a HELL of a lot better than that! :) > >Then there is the possibility of a User Defined Collection - but that's >another story that is too long for this list :) > >HTH > >Mark > > >-Original Message- >Carmichael >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 05:14 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Mark, > >You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the >blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long >time >and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has >happened in the meantime > >Rachel > > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Mark Leith > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
You got me on this one, but my guess would be Grandpa Simpson said that one:) KK -Original Message- Conron Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On June 27, 2001 03:05 pm, Mustafa wrote: > True Fact: Unix was first invented in 1913 by my great great uncle > (twice removed) Ralph Unix. Ralph worked with him as THE first > DBA. > > I bet most of you didn't know that the Unix server Ralph is talking > about is powered by steam engine! ;-) ... of course, he had an onion tied to his belt, because that was the style of the time Cheers, GC -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gregory Conron INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Just my 2p worth but I have been evaluating a few of the tools that Marks company provides and both me my colleagues (developers and DBAs) found them to be top notch (erm...excellent if this doesn't translate well) and basically a fraction of the cost that Quest etc. charge. I have spent a lot of time evaluating Quests tools as well (and many others). I won't lie and I'm sure Mark will not be offended but the look of the whole thing isn't as pretty as Quests stuff (probably effects the price !!) but gives you the same information and in many cases delves a whole lot deeper. I would imagine once the American economy eventually sorts itself out (I work for an American company by the way), appropriate funds will be released and I will be involved in the purchase of the aforementioned tools. Regards Lee -Original Message- Sent: 28 June 2001 12:26 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Rachel, In the session detail screen, it will list all of the SQL currently in the SQLAREA for that session, so if you don't catch the blocked session straight away (away from your desk or out to lunch), you can in fact miss the SQL as it may have been aged out of the SQLAREA. The way I would use the tool though would be like this: 1) Set up the standard rule - ORA_GLOB_BLOCKED_SESSIONS with a threshold of 1 (Tell me whenever a session is blocked) The Analyzer agent will then monitor the instance on a REFRESH (x sec/min) basis for any blocked sessions. 2) Set up an Event Handler under the Alerter Agent that fires off an "External" Action (execute a program or a script), that will fire off a script that will select all SQL for that user, and then email the output to your email address, showing you the username etc. with all SQL they have executed. This way you are *almost* guaranteed to catch the SQL they are using. I say *almost* as there is that .1% chance that somebody has got a stupidly small SQLAREA, and a HELL of a lot of SQL going through it.. Not very likely at all, given the time the Alerter agent would take to perform all of this, and I'm sure your instances are set up a HELL of a lot better than that! :) Then there is the possibility of a User Defined Collection - but that's another story that is too long for this list :) HTH Mark -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 05:14 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Mark, You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long time and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has happened in the meantime Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Rachel, In the session detail screen, it will list all of the SQL currently in the SQLAREA for that session, so if you don't catch the blocked session straight away (away from your desk or out to lunch), you can in fact miss the SQL as it may have been aged out of the SQLAREA. The way I would use the tool though would be like this: 1) Set up the standard rule - ORA_GLOB_BLOCKED_SESSIONS with a threshold of 1 (Tell me whenever a session is blocked) The Analyzer agent will then monitor the instance on a REFRESH (x sec/min) basis for any blocked sessions. 2) Set up an Event Handler under the Alerter Agent that fires off an "External" Action (execute a program or a script), that will fire off a script that will select all SQL for that user, and then email the output to your email address, showing you the username etc. with all SQL they have executed. This way you are *almost* guaranteed to catch the SQL they are using. I say *almost* as there is that .1% chance that somebody has got a stupidly small SQLAREA, and a HELL of a lot of SQL going through it.. Not very likely at all, given the time the Alerter agent would take to perform all of this, and I'm sure your instances are set up a HELL of a lot better than that! :) Then there is the possibility of a User Defined Collection - but that's another story that is too long for this list :) HTH Mark -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 05:14 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Mark, You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long time and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has happened in the meantime Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
"Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? ||No, that's a pretty simple statement to get my head around I think! You like to promote peoples views, whilst not actually believing them yourself right? :) "you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :)" Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) ||Well - not quite a genius, and have never taken any mensa tests or anything, but I like to think of myself as pretty smart every now and then. That's usually why I can write a PARAGRAPH on my own, without the help of a computer, and still not end with up a great long spiel of blurb. "NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital?" Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can atleast develope on a unix platform now :) ||Currently have a copy of LINUX sat on my desk waiting to be installed, as well as Solaris 8, so many things to try, so little time to do it, and personally I don't think I would waste any of that time on MSDN. I think there are other things to consider here though - not EVERY start-up company, is working in the IT industry, though they may need databases to help them do their jobs. Now, as I mentioned before, if we are talking about a small start-up, with no venture capital, and huge wads of cash to throw around, and they ONLY have limited experience with computers, then windows is their ideal solution. Or should they still go out and get LINUX when they have no experience with a UNIX type platform - and then put most of their time in to learning that - when they could be working on growing their business? All I was trying to get at is that Windows DOES have its uses out there, I too agree with you that UNIX is a far more stable and configurable platform though. "LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) Way to go! ||If you can get it running sweet as a nut - why bother? You can touch the database, and play with that to your hearts content - but why "fix" something that isn't broken? "You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) ||That's a bold statement to make on this list - and I don't think you'll make many friends by posting it! As for me being a block headed 3rd rate DBA? Well, for one, I am a SALES PERSON believe it or not, as I mentioned we deal with tools - I sell them to DBAs.. Bearing that in mind - I am trained in Oracle & SQLServer administration (no certification), and also have a copy of DB2 to install and play with - personally I think I am OVER QUALIFIED for my job - and you won't find many sales people around like me. Like you I love to learn - and I do every day I live.. I then *try* to share this knowledge as much as I can.. This is all *my* opinion, and I'm sticking to I'm afraid. You sound a bit - ummm - angry, no maybe not angry, but certainly a very "rude, and insulting man" (Alex? :). I didn't mean to offend - just give another view (which I believe I'm entitled to..). Cheers Mark -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On June 27, 2001 03:05 pm, Mustafa wrote: > True Fact: Unix was first invented in 1913 by my great great uncle > (twice removed) Ralph Unix. Ralph worked with him as THE first > DBA. > > I bet most of you didn't know that the Unix server Ralph is talking > about is powered by steam engine! ;-) ... of course, he had an onion tied to his belt, because that was the style of the time Cheers, GC -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gregory Conron INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On June 27, 2001 10:45 am, Thater, William wrote: ->business world that their entire infrastructure is a > complete and udder pipe dream ^^^ What do gui tools have to do with cows? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gregory Conron INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Jon, slowly now - no - slower than that, take you hands away from the keyboard. carefully now, shutdown your machine. slowly back away from your desk. now run like hell for your car. go home, get a glass of lemonade, and find the nearest shady place. breath deeply. now, isn't that better? :) Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Wed, 27 Jun 2001,Marty Bonner scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->I just got a shiver down my spine as I realized... you got kicked off of ->Slashdot, didn't you? Not playing nice with the rest of the kids? -> ->Anyhoo, your rhetoric is more appropriate for that forum than this one. ->Maybe if you apologize, the rest of the kids will let you play with them ->again. now don't go spoiling our fun just yet, we're just getting wound up on the boy.;-) kicked off slashdot? damn, even i couldn't do that one.;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Kiss your keyboard goodbye! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Right on Rachel!! You go get'em girl. To add to the mix.. Some of the participants on this list are extremely knowledgeable and published. They are willing and able to offer assistance when the opportunity arises. All people are given the chance to voice their opinion and should do so with respect for all members on the list. If there is any personal gripe between members, please take it off line and get it straightened out. I personally would not like to see anyone offended and have them leave the list. The only losers then are the other members of the list. I only use the windoz products because it is the corporate os of choice right now. I am command line trained and prefer command line over pixels and flashy screens. I chose windoz for home use because it is easier for my wife to operate. Ron Rogers ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/27/01 02:46PM >>> Jon, Just curiousity here, are you an Oracle DBA (certified or otherwise)? As for using "a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own", well, you are right about that, but then it doesn't seem as if you need any help in introducing mistakes into your documents, as you've made plenty of spelling and puncuation errors on your own. Or were those deliberate? Mark stated that he wasn't a DBA, however, he has certainly contributed more to this list in answering database questions than you have. And he's managed to do so without being insulting or rude. And Ross has certainly met your hostility with grace and humor. If you had spent any time at all on this list, you would know that he IS proficient in Unix, and has done more digging into the OS and how things work than most Unix sysadmins I know. And yes,I actually know some. Many. You might want to do some research on the people you are insulting before you start, it's much less embarassing that way. Oh, and before you start to insult me, you might want to know some background information. I do not work on NT systems, but rather on Unix boxes. I have been an Oracle DBA for 10 years. I am not a fan by any means of the varied certification programs available, except perhaps for Cisco's certification program since they actually make you build something and then fix it after they break it. Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? - now tell if sufficient free space exis
this is not elegant, but works:
execute this is sqlplus:
host (srvinfo -od ) > disk_info.txt
host blat disk_info.txt -to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
which will provide you with output of the format:
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 3:48 PM
To: log_files
C$,NTFS,2048,1890,158
D$,NTFS,3099,2758,341
E$,NTFS,4095,3849,246
F$,NTFS,8190,7684,506
This does require that you have the utility "blat.exe" installed and in your
path.
hth,
Paul
Original Message
Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:50:28 -0800
From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Arn't you going to make sure you actually have the disk space to resize
that data file first? SomethingOEM does not do for you. Must go out to
the server and check.
-Original Message-
From: JOE TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 7:22 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Mike, i'm with you there. alter database datafile
'/fill/in/name/here' resize 200m; or right click in OEM and
change the size. As long as you can do the previous then
might as well use the latter :) joe
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/27/01 09:26AM >>>
More on the same vein. Sorry if this thread is developing a
"me too" feel.
I'm happy to use GUI tools when they save me time. I know what
they're doing and
how they achieve their results.
The availability of GUI tools is however a huge disincentive
for new DBAs to
find out how the database actually works and leads to a lack
of understanding of
the way the beast works as a whole.
If your goal is to be a knowledgeable and effective DBA then
you can't beat
starting from the command line and working your way towards
GUI when you find
your feet. That requires a long-term viewpoint though, and the
world is
focussing increasingly on the short term.
If I sound like a Luddite then I've given the wrong
impression; that;s just my 4
groats-worth.
Regards,
Mike
|+->
|| Peter McLarty |
|| |
|| |
|| 06/27/01 01:30 |
|| PM |
|| Please respond |
|| to ORACLE-L|
|| |
|+->
>-|
|
|
| To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L |
|
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>|
| cc: (bcc: Mike
Hately/ETECH) |
| Subject: Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on
NT? |
>-|
Oh I agree
As a newbie to the Oracle fold I found it oh so easy to dive
into
stuff with the DBA Studio, I suppose the thing that stops me
is some 7 or
more years hacking around Linux and Unix systems. Graphical
tools are great
for some things but you just cant beat the capabilities of a
good script
and Windows will be a lot better for it now it has a good
scripting system.
What i found DBA studio for thogh was the show SQL button I
could set up
some task to do and then have a look at the SQL that was going
to happen so
I could better understand it.
I am sure when we start seeing more Oracle up on Win2K we will
see a lot
more scripting on that side to do those mixed OS and SQLPlus
tasks.
Peter McLarty
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
04 0209 4238
System Administrator
L plate Oracle DBA
At 03:56 AM 27/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>On June 27, 2001 07:55 am, Mark Leith wrote:
> > slapping developers - what's the problem with them?
>
>No problem slapping developers rather enjoy it actually
>
>The issue I have with point & click is the increasing number
of
>database admins who can only use these tools. Put them in
front of a
>command line and they will sit and stare blankly. GUI tools
can be
>great (except when they're written in java :), but you should
>actually know what you are doing and the 'how & why' behind
it before
>you start clicking a database to
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers, Therein lies a problem. People use computers. Without people to use computers, we have no computers to play with. I mean 'work' with. I like computers too. I've been playing with them for some time now, but probably at a higher level than you. You're down there at the low levels messing about with bits, whereas other folks ( like me ) are at another level messing with databases, SQL, Perl, what have you. If you can't relate with people, you will eventually fail at your job, I don't care what level you are working at. You may not perceive it as failure, but others will, and that will limit the stuff you get to do, or at least the stuff you get to do and get paid for. :) So, everyone is not at the technical level you are, but they all have to make use of computers. Instead of referring to them as morons, why not just help them out. After all, in another context, you may well be the moron. Just grin and bear it. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
S !! Alex is awake !!! ;-) - Kirti > -Original Message- > From: Hillman, Alex [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 2:36 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > Bad day man? Lighten up a little bit. Would be nice first to answer some > Oracle questions posted on this list and then publish your opinion about > idiots around there. > > Alex Hillman > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:41 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > " -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Bad day man? Lighten up a little bit. Would be nice first to answer some Oracle questions posted on this list and then publish your opinion about idiots around there. Alex Hillman -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? "you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :)" Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) "NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital?" Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can atleast develope on a unix platform now :) "LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) Way to go! "You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - > you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it > for you ! :) > > NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast > expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in > the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run > their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they > can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their > small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? > If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has > allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a > more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some > down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing ?20,000 > an hour because of system downtime. > > What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company > has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom line > has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to run > *most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat it > well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap on > your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - a
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
It is sort of looking like he got kicked off of this one as well:) -Original Message- Bonner Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 3:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I just got a shiver down my spine as I realized... you got kicked off of Slashdot, didn't you? Not playing nice with the rest of the kids? Anyhoo, your rhetoric is more appropriate for that forum than this one. Maybe if you apologize, the rest of the kids will let you play with them again. >From: Jon Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:41:20 -0800 > >"Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" > >The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I >believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? > >"you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected >it for you ! :)" > >Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats >correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt >attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll >enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your >information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem >swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) > >"NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of >venture capital?" > >Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the >best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... >that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix >boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical >ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical >environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can >atleast develope on a unix platform now :) > >"LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." > >Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to >run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) >Way to go! > >"You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about >point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party >GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a >point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." > >No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also >block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I >have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all >I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now >Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I >know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are >eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our >ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our >lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) > >Thanks, >jon > > >"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to >lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the >fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into >it in the first place." > >-- Douglas Adams > >"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you >how it's done." > >-- Scott Adams > >On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > > > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > > information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores >the > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them >into > > it in the first place." > > > > Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > > > By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life >- > > you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected >it > > for you ! :) > > > > NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > > venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast > > expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves >in > > the shit with their bank balance?
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
I just got a shiver down my spine as I realized... you got kicked off of Slashdot, didn't you? Not playing nice with the rest of the kids? Anyhoo, your rhetoric is more appropriate for that forum than this one. Maybe if you apologize, the rest of the kids will let you play with them again. >From: Jon Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:41:20 -0800 > >"Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" > >The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I >believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? > >"you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected >it for you ! :)" > >Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats >correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt >attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll >enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your >information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem >swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) > >"NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of >venture capital?" > >Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the >best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... >that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix >boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical >ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical >environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can >atleast develope on a unix platform now :) > >"LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." > >Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to >run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) >Way to go! > >"You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about >point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party >GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a >point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." > >No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also >block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I >have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all >I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now >Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I >know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are >eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our >ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our >lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) > >Thanks, >jon > > >"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to >lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the >fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into >it in the first place." > >-- Douglas Adams > >"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you >how it's done." > >-- Scott Adams > >On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > > > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > > information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores >the > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them >into > > it in the first place." > > > > Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > > > By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life >- > > you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected >it > > for you ! :) > > > > NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > > venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast > > expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves >in > > the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run > > their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure >they > > can.. Just because they don&#
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001,Rachel Carmichael scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: -> ->As for using "a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt ->attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own", well, you are right ->about that, but then it doesn't seem as if you need any help in introducing ->mistakes into your documents, as you've made plenty of spelling and ->puncuation errors on your own. Or were those deliberate? well that's not just for unix anymore.;-) i'm using one on my NT laptop. but i at least have the sense to run it through a spell checker... well most of the time anyway.;-) ->You might want to do some research on the people you are insulting before ->you start, it's much less embarassing that way. no if he did that he might be able to insult us with wit, grace and humor. it might ruin his style.;-) -> ->Oh, and before you start to insult me, you might want to know some ->background information. I do not work on NT systems, but rather on Unix ->boxes. I have been an Oracle DBA for 10 years. I am not a fan by any means ->of the varied certification programs available, except perhaps for Cisco's ->certification program since they actually make you build something and then ->fix it after they break it. -> ->Rachel oh and what she didn't say is she is an internationally know author and presenter. we don't call her "the goddess" for nothing, dude.;-) now me on the other hand, i'm just a grunt DBA so insult away!;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Kiss your keyboard goodbye! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001,Marty Bonner scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->I just got a shiver down my spine as I realized... you got kicked off of ->Slashdot, didn't you? Not playing nice with the rest of the kids? -> ->Anyhoo, your rhetoric is more appropriate for that forum than this one. ->Maybe if you apologize, the rest of the kids will let you play with them ->again. now don't go spoiling our fun just yet, we're just getting wound up on the boy.;-) kicked off slashdot? damn, even i couldn't do that one.;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Kiss your keyboard goodbye! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Will everyone please drop the 24 x 7 from the subject?! I asked the question a few days ago and the discussion now has nothing to do with the question. Thanks to those who actually had input to the original question. Ron -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:57 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L And I thought I was in a bad mood today. All nighter last night. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? "you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :)" Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) "NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital?" Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can atleast develope on a unix platform now :) "LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) Way to go! "You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - > you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it > for you ! :) > > NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast > expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in > the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run > their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they > can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their > small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? > If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has > allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a > more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some > down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing ?20,000 > an hour because of system downtime. > > What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company > has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom line > has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
John,oops JON, Sounds like someone 1) Woke up on the wrong side of their UNIX box and 2) Has no tolerance for anything not similar to their own way of thinking. I think most of us will agree that UNIX is heads a shoulders a better platform for MOST systems that run apps like Oracle, however, Windows does have its place and time. And not everyone who runs Oracle on NT/2k are idiots. We probably didn't make the OS choice, but are determined to make the best of the situation. And if you can get good reliablilty out of Oracle on NT, I would have to say you are a pretty good DBA/SysAd!!! Chuck Speaks, MCSE Database Administrator Lithonia Lighting 770-922-9000 x3450 http://www.lithonia.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? "you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :)" Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) "NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital?" Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can atleast develope on a unix platform now :) "LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) Way to go! "You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - > you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it > for you ! :) > > NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast > expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in > the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run > their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they > can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their > small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? > If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has > allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a > more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some > down time - but I'm sure a small busin
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Jon, Just curiousity here, are you an Oracle DBA (certified or otherwise)? As for using "a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own", well, you are right about that, but then it doesn't seem as if you need any help in introducing mistakes into your documents, as you've made plenty of spelling and puncuation errors on your own. Or were those deliberate? Mark stated that he wasn't a DBA, however, he has certainly contributed more to this list in answering database questions than you have. And he's managed to do so without being insulting or rude. And Ross has certainly met your hostility with grace and humor. If you had spent any time at all on this list, you would know that he IS proficient in Unix, and has done more digging into the OS and how things work than most Unix sysadmins I know. And yes,I actually know some. Many. You might want to do some research on the people you are insulting before you start, it's much less embarassing that way. Oh, and before you start to insult me, you might want to know some background information. I do not work on NT systems, but rather on Unix boxes. I have been an Oracle DBA for 10 years. I am not a fan by any means of the varied certification programs available, except perhaps for Cisco's certification program since they actually make you build something and then fix it after they break it. Rachel >From: Jon Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:41:20 -0800 > >"Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" > >The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I >believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? > >"you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected >it for you ! :)" > >Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats >correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt >attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll >enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your >information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem >swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) > >"NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of >venture capital?" > >Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the >best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... >that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix >boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical >ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical >environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can >atleast develope on a unix platform now :) > >"LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." > >Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to >run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) >Way to go! > >"You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about >point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party >GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a >point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." > >No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also >block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I >have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all >I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now >Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I >know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are >eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our >ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our >lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) > >Thanks, >jon > > >"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to >lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the >fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into >it in the first place." > >-- Douglas Adams > >"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you >how it's done." > >-- Scott Adams > >On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > > > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others p
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
"Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? "you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :)" Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) "NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital?" Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can atleast develope on a unix platform now :) "LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) Way to go! "You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - > you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it > for you ! :) > > NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast > expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in > the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run > their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they > can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their > small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? > If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has > allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a > more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some > down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing ?20,000 > an hour because of system downtime. > > What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company > has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom line > has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to run > *most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat it > well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap on > your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's > job. > > You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about > point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI > tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & > click O/S - but one to help
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
True Fact: Unix was first invented in 1913 by my great great uncle (twice removed) Ralph Unix. Ralph worked with him as THE first DBA. I bet most of you didn't know that the Unix server Ralph is talking about is powered by steam engine! ;-) Defry - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:13 PM Come on get real.. Who has had a Unix box for 88 years? Unless of course the box in a satellite circling the earth and the crossing of the dateline constitutes a "day" ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/26/01 03:18PM >>> Here's my Unix box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, 430.48, 3450.70 Here's my NT box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, 0.00070 So, obviously, NT sucks. . -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mustafa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
And I thought I was in a bad mood today. All nighter last night. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)" The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle? "you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :)" Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :) "NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital?" Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can atleast develope on a unix platform now :) "LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job." Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) Way to go! "You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..." No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote: > "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - > you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it > for you ! :) > > NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast > expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in > the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run > their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they > can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their > small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? > If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has > allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a > more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some > down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing ?20,000 > an hour because of system downtime. > > What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company > has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom line > has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to run > *most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat it > well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap on > your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's > job. > > You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about > point and cl
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Arn't you going to make sure you actually have the disk space to resize that data file first? Something OEM does not do for you. Must go out to the server and check. -Original Message-From: JOE TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 7:22 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? Mike, i'm with you there. alter database datafile '/fill/in/name/here' resize 200m; or right click in OEM and change the size. As long as you can do the previous then might as well use the latter :) joe >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/27/01 09:26AM >>>More on the same vein. Sorry if this thread is developing a "me too" feel.I'm happy to use GUI tools when they save me time. I know what they're doing andhow they achieve their results.The availability of GUI tools is however a huge disincentive for new DBAs tofind out how the database actually works and leads to a lack of understanding ofthe way the beast works as a whole.If your goal is to be a knowledgeable and effective DBA then you can't beatstarting from the command line and working your way towards GUI when you findyour feet. That requires a long-term viewpoint though, and the world isfocussing increasingly on the short term.If I sound like a Luddite then I've given the wrong impression; that;s just my 4groats-worth.Regards,Mike|+->| | Peter McLarty || | | | incts.com> || | || | 06/27/01 01:30 || | PM || | Please respond || | to ORACLE-L || | ||+-> >-| | | | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | cc: (bcc: Mike Hately/ETECH) | | Subject: Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? | >-|Oh I agreeAs a newbie to the Oracle fold I found it oh so easy to dive intostuff with the DBA Studio, I suppose the thing that stops me is some 7 ormore years hacking around Linux and Unix systems. Graphical tools are greatfor some things but you just cant beat the capabilities of a good scriptand Windows will be a lot better for it now it has a good scripting system.What i found DBA studio for thogh was the show SQL button I could set upsome task to do and then have a look at the SQL that was going to happen soI could better understand it.I am sure when we start seeing more Oracle up on Win2K we will see a lotmore scripting on that side to do those mixed OS and SQLPlus tasks.Peter McLarty[EMAIL PROTECTED]04 0209 4238System AdministratorL plate Oracle DBAAt 03:56 AM 27/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:>On June 27, 2001 07:55 am, Mark Leith wrote:> > slapping developers - what's the problem with them?>>No problem slapping developers rather enjoy it actually >>The issue I have with point & click is the increasing number of>database admins who can only use these tools. Put them in front of a>command line and they will sit and stare blankly. GUI tools can be>great (except when they're written in java :), but you should>actually know what you are doing and the 'how & why' behind it before>you start clicking a database to death.>>Just my cynical $.02.>Cheers,>GC>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Peter McLarty INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists---
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Been running since 1913. Cool! In 1919 E. 0. Carissan (1880-1925) built a "factoring machine" http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~shallit/Papers/carissan.html -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Come on get real.. Who has had a Unix box for 88 years? Unless of course the box in a satellite circling the earth and the crossing of the dateline constitutes a "day" ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/26/01 03:18PM >>> Here's my Unix box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, 430.48, 3450.70 Here's my NT box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, 0.00070 So, obviously, NT sucks. . -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Mark, You list ALL the SQL the blocker has or only the SQL that is doing the blocking? I've been looking for a tool that does the latter for a long time and never found one that can identify the statement, if other SQL has happened in the meantime Rachel >From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:01:05 -0800 > >EXACTLY!! I never say that a tool should be used instead of command line - >I'm a great believer of having to know both - as there are pros and cons >for >both sides of the coin! There are times when the back end agent of a >monitoring tool, monitoring on regular basis and alerting you by your >mobile >phone is a hell of a lot better. Other times you can only achieve what you >need through a script.. > >I do have to say though, that a graphical interface to a database *can* be >a >great learning tool for a Jr. DBA, providing they have the right tool. As >Peter pointed out, some tools will actually show you the SQL that they are >going to submit to the database, thereby showing the Jr. what s/he is going >to be sending to the database. > >If then, they are not sure what it is they are going to send to the >database - and still send it anyway without even attempting to do a little >research - IMO they are in the wrong job. If the tool is better still, you >can review the SQL, and add anything else you feel might be needed, and >still submit the script through the tool (for all the snr. DBAs). > >I actually use your situation in demos Rachel - We have a monitoring tool, >which has a "Blocked Sessions" screen. This will show you in a flow chart >picture the blocking session, and any blocked sessions. From there, simply >"double-click" the blocker, and go in to a session detail, showing all >locks, complete stats for the session (CPU, I/O, waits, blah, blah, blah), >all SQL that they have executed that is in the SQLAREA, the current open >cursor, and all of the users details - username, terminal name, program >etc. >Right Mouse Button, and kill the session once you know who it is - call >them, tell them why you did it, and problem solved - usually BEFORE anybody >calls you, as you typically find a user will wait a minute or two. The tool >tells the DBA STRAIGHT AWAY, and will not wait for them to fire of a >script. > >By that time you will have touched the keyboard ONCE (to enter a privileged >user/pass to kill the session). How long would it take the average DBA to >do >this with scripts? I could do it in about 20-30 seconds with our tool.. > >It's all swings and roundabouts, and I've rambled enough now :) > >Mark > > > >-Original Message- >Carmichael >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 01:57 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Mark, > >My only problem with GUI tools (and as an aside it was I believe Oracle's >Migration GUI that failed for that member of the list) is that newbies use >the tools and don't learn the underlying structure and data beneath them > >I think GUI tools are a great boon. If nothing else, it gives damagement a >pretty screen to look at while I am working on something else :) > >Truly though, having a red light flash on a console to warn me of a lock is >a good thing. In fact, the one incident I am thinking of, we were able to >find the lock, clear it and have things back to normal as the phones >starting ringing -- users calling to say "Oracle is down". We were able to >tell them to wait a minute or two and try again, it was fixed. > >Rachel > > > >From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:55:28 -0800 > > > >Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we > >don't > >deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count > >reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you >are > >actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place.. > > > >I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL > >Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I > >simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will > >make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people >I > >know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the > >data that comes
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
no, THEY look at the screen, while I type away in any case, no matter what I do, they think it's easy. I think I do my job a little *too* well (kidding!) >From: "Richard Ji" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:16:16 -0800 > > >I think GUI tools are a great boon. If nothing else, it gives damagement >a > >pretty screen to look at while I am working on something else :) > >But isn't it better to let the damagement see me furiously typing at the >keyboard? :-) If the damagement see you solved the problem by couple >of clicks, he/she might think "hmmm, that was easy". > >;) > >Richard Ji > > >From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:55:28 -0800 > > > >Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we > >don't > >deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count > >reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you >are > >actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place.. > > > >I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL > >Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I > >simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will > >make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people >I > >know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the > >data that comes out of the a$$ end of it, in the time it takes to point >and > >click a button, and watch the lovely pretty graph that that GUI piece of > >"junk" throws out for you.. > > > >I have never been a DBA (although that is probably where my heart is), >but > >I > >do know that you guys are on extremely tight schedules, with a LOT to fit > >in > >to a day, and if you can have a lovely GUI tool that sits in background >for > >you monitoring your database, and alert you when there IS a problem, > >leaving > >you to move on to more interesting stuff like tuning your database > >parameters (in command line if you wish), eating your doughnuts, drinking > >coffee, and slapping developers - what's the problem with them? > > > >Mark > > > >Disclaimer: This is in no way the view of my employer, just my own > >(probably > >stupid) opinion. > > > >-Original Message- > >Dayal > >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:02 > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > >>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan > >about > > >>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third > >party GUI > > >>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a > >point & > > >>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... > > > > >>Just my 50p :) > > > >But then I remember someone complaining of GUI'ed tool not doing right > >Migration Job (after waiting for more than a day) for him right > > > >And that's the reason, the more you become familiar with Depths of > >Databases more you start hating those so called "Easy to Use GUI > >Tools"... > > > >My 50p ;-)) > > > >Rajesh > >OC DBA 8&8i > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:32 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >"I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate > >information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > > > >"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > >lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores > >the > >fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them > >into > >it in the first place." > > > >Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > > > >By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life > >- > >you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected > >it > >for you ! :) > > > >NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of > >venture capital? Should
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Come on get real.. Who has had a Unix box for 88 years? Unless of course the box in a satellite circling the earth and the crossing of the dateline constitutes a "day" ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/26/01 03:18PM >>> Here's my Unix box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, 430.48, 3450.70 Here's my NT box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, 0.00070 So, obviously, NT sucks. . -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
>I think GUI tools are a great boon. If nothing else, it gives damagement a >pretty screen to look at while I am working on something else :) But isn't it better to let the damagement see me furiously typing at the keyboard? :-) If the damagement see you solved the problem by couple of clicks, he/she might think "hmmm, that was easy". ;) Richard Ji >From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:55:28 -0800 > >Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we >don't >deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count >reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you are >actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place.. > >I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL >Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I >simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will >make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people I >know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the >data that comes out of the a$$ end of it, in the time it takes to point and >click a button, and watch the lovely pretty graph that that GUI piece of >"junk" throws out for you.. > >I have never been a DBA (although that is probably where my heart is), but >I >do know that you guys are on extremely tight schedules, with a LOT to fit >in >to a day, and if you can have a lovely GUI tool that sits in background for >you monitoring your database, and alert you when there IS a problem, >leaving >you to move on to more interesting stuff like tuning your database >parameters (in command line if you wish), eating your doughnuts, drinking >coffee, and slapping developers - what's the problem with them? > >Mark > >Disclaimer: This is in no way the view of my employer, just my own >(probably >stupid) opinion. > >-Original Message- >Dayal >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:02 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > >>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan >about > >>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third >party GUI > >>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a >point & > >>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... > > >>Just my 50p :) > >But then I remember someone complaining of GUI'ed tool not doing right >Migration Job (after waiting for more than a day) for him right > >And that's the reason, the more you become familiar with Depths of >Databases more you start hating those so called "Easy to Use GUI >Tools"... > >My 50p ;-)) > >Rajesh >OC DBA 8&8i >-Original Message- >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:32 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >"I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate >information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > >"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to >lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores >the >fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them >into >it in the first place." > >Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > >By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life >- >you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected >it >for you ! :) > >NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of >venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast >expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves >in >the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run >their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure >they >can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of >their >small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to >fail? >If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He >has >allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases >on a >more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get >some >down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing >?20,000 >an hour because of system downtime. > >What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every >
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
EXACTLY!! I never say that a tool should be used instead of command line - I'm a great believer of having to know both - as there are pros and cons for both sides of the coin! There are times when the back end agent of a monitoring tool, monitoring on regular basis and alerting you by your mobile phone is a hell of a lot better. Other times you can only achieve what you need through a script.. I do have to say though, that a graphical interface to a database *can* be a great learning tool for a Jr. DBA, providing they have the right tool. As Peter pointed out, some tools will actually show you the SQL that they are going to submit to the database, thereby showing the Jr. what s/he is going to be sending to the database. If then, they are not sure what it is they are going to send to the database - and still send it anyway without even attempting to do a little research - IMO they are in the wrong job. If the tool is better still, you can review the SQL, and add anything else you feel might be needed, and still submit the script through the tool (for all the snr. DBAs). I actually use your situation in demos Rachel - We have a monitoring tool, which has a "Blocked Sessions" screen. This will show you in a flow chart picture the blocking session, and any blocked sessions. From there, simply "double-click" the blocker, and go in to a session detail, showing all locks, complete stats for the session (CPU, I/O, waits, blah, blah, blah), all SQL that they have executed that is in the SQLAREA, the current open cursor, and all of the users details - username, terminal name, program etc. Right Mouse Button, and kill the session once you know who it is - call them, tell them why you did it, and problem solved - usually BEFORE anybody calls you, as you typically find a user will wait a minute or two. The tool tells the DBA STRAIGHT AWAY, and will not wait for them to fire of a script. By that time you will have touched the keyboard ONCE (to enter a privileged user/pass to kill the session). How long would it take the average DBA to do this with scripts? I could do it in about 20-30 seconds with our tool.. It's all swings and roundabouts, and I've rambled enough now :) Mark -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 01:57 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Mark, My only problem with GUI tools (and as an aside it was I believe Oracle's Migration GUI that failed for that member of the list) is that newbies use the tools and don't learn the underlying structure and data beneath them I think GUI tools are a great boon. If nothing else, it gives damagement a pretty screen to look at while I am working on something else :) Truly though, having a red light flash on a console to warn me of a lock is a good thing. In fact, the one incident I am thinking of, we were able to find the lock, clear it and have things back to normal as the phones starting ringing -- users calling to say "Oracle is down". We were able to tell them to wait a minute or two and try again, it was fixed. Rachel >From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:55:28 -0800 > >Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we >don't >deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count >reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you are >actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place.. > >I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL >Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I >simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will >make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people I >know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the >data that comes out of the a$$ end of it, in the time it takes to point and >click a button, and watch the lovely pretty graph that that GUI piece of >"junk" throws out for you.. > >I have never been a DBA (although that is probably where my heart is), but >I >do know that you guys are on extremely tight schedules, with a LOT to fit >in >to a day, and if you can have a lovely GUI tool that sits in background for >you monitoring your database, and alert you when there IS a problem, >leaving >you to move on to more interesting stuff like tuning your database >parameters (in command line if you wish), eating your doughnuts, drinking >coffee, and slapping developers - what's the problem with them? > >Mark > >Disclaimer: This is in no way the view of my employer, just my own >(probably >stupid) opinion. > ---trim--- -- Please see the o
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Mike, i'm with you there. alter database datafile '/fill/in/name/here' resize 200m; or right click in OEM and change the size. As long as you can do the previous then might as well use the latter :) joe >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/27/01 09:26AM >>>More on the same vein. Sorry if this thread is developing a "me too" feel.I'm happy to use GUI tools when they save me time. I know what they're doing andhow they achieve their results.The availability of GUI tools is however a huge disincentive for new DBAs tofind out how the database actually works and leads to a lack of understanding ofthe way the beast works as a whole.If your goal is to be a knowledgeable and effective DBA then you can't beatstarting from the command line and working your way towards GUI when you findyour feet. That requires a long-term viewpoint though, and the world isfocussing increasingly on the short term.If I sound like a Luddite then I've given the wrong impression; that;s just my 4groats-worth.Regards,Mike|+->| | Peter McLarty || | | | incts.com> || | || | 06/27/01 01:30 || | PM || | Please respond || | to ORACLE-L || | ||+-> >-| | | | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | cc: (bcc: Mike Hately/ETECH) | | Subject: Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? | >-|Oh I agreeAs a newbie to the Oracle fold I found it oh so easy to dive intostuff with the DBA Studio, I suppose the thing that stops me is some 7 ormore years hacking around Linux and Unix systems. Graphical tools are greatfor some things but you just cant beat the capabilities of a good scriptand Windows will be a lot better for it now it has a good scripting system.What i found DBA studio for thogh was the show SQL button I could set upsome task to do and then have a look at the SQL that was going to happen soI could better understand it.I am sure when we start seeing more Oracle up on Win2K we will see a lotmore scripting on that side to do those mixed OS and SQLPlus tasks.Peter McLarty[EMAIL PROTECTED]04 0209 4238System AdministratorL plate Oracle DBAAt 03:56 AM 27/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:>On June 27, 2001 07:55 am, Mark Leith wrote:> > slapping developers - what's the problem with them?>>No problem slapping developers rather enjoy it actually >>The issue I have with point & click is the increasing number of>database admins who can only use these tools. Put them in front of a>command line and they will sit and stare blankly. GUI tools can be>great (except when they're written in java :), but you should>actually know what you are doing and the 'how & why' behind it before>you start clicking a database to death.>>Just my cynical $.02.>Cheers,>GC>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Peter McLarty INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Hi, The GUI is nice and very productive , but how an OS could pretend to be 24x7 when if you change configuration you must restart the computer. Regards, Antonio Belloni "Sherman, Edward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@fatcity.com on 26/06/2001 19:42:48 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: It isn't monochrome anymore... Really! :-) http://www.themes.org/php/pic.phtml?src=shots/990462645.jpg -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:12 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their computers that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright KK :) * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001,Kevin Kostyszyn scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the ->business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe ->dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also ->just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their computers ->that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding ->at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright ->KK ->:) hey! i resemble that remark!;-) i remember the first time i used one of those new fangled CRTs instead of the old ASR33! you could see a *whole page* at a time! talk about the bleeding edge.;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it. -Former Vice President Dan Quayle -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
More on the same vein. Sorry if this thread is developing a "me too" feel. I'm happy to use GUI tools when they save me time. I know what they're doing and how they achieve their results. The availability of GUI tools is however a huge disincentive for new DBAs to find out how the database actually works and leads to a lack of understanding of the way the beast works as a whole. If your goal is to be a knowledgeable and effective DBA then you can't beat starting from the command line and working your way towards GUI when you find your feet. That requires a long-term viewpoint though, and the world is focussing increasingly on the short term. If I sound like a Luddite then I've given the wrong impression; that;s just my 4 groats-worth. Regards, Mike |+-> || Peter McLarty | || | || | || 06/27/01 01:30 | || PM | || Please respond | || to ORACLE-L| || | |+-> >-| | | | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>| | cc: (bcc: Mike Hately/ETECH) | | Subject: Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? | >-| Oh I agree As a newbie to the Oracle fold I found it oh so easy to dive into stuff with the DBA Studio, I suppose the thing that stops me is some 7 or more years hacking around Linux and Unix systems. Graphical tools are great for some things but you just cant beat the capabilities of a good script and Windows will be a lot better for it now it has a good scripting system. What i found DBA studio for thogh was the show SQL button I could set up some task to do and then have a look at the SQL that was going to happen so I could better understand it. I am sure when we start seeing more Oracle up on Win2K we will see a lot more scripting on that side to do those mixed OS and SQLPlus tasks. Peter McLarty [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04 0209 4238 System Administrator L plate Oracle DBA At 03:56 AM 27/06/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On June 27, 2001 07:55 am, Mark Leith wrote: > > slapping developers - what's the problem with them? > >No problem slapping developers rather enjoy it actually > >The issue I have with point & click is the increasing number of >database admins who can only use these tools. Put them in front of a >command line and they will sit and stare blankly. GUI tools can be >great (except when they're written in java :), but you should >actually know what you are doing and the 'how & why' behind it before >you start clicking a database to death. > >Just my cynical $.02. >Cheers, >GC >-- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Peter McLarty INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Oh I agree As a newbie to the Oracle fold I found it oh so easy to dive into stuff with the DBA Studio, I suppose the thing that stops me is some 7 or more years hacking around Linux and Unix systems. Graphical tools are great for some things but you just cant beat the capabilities of a good script and Windows will be a lot better for it now it has a good scripting system. What i found DBA studio for thogh was the show SQL button I could set up some task to do and then have a look at the SQL that was going to happen so I could better understand it. I am sure when we start seeing more Oracle up on Win2K we will see a lot more scripting on that side to do those mixed OS and SQLPlus tasks. Peter McLarty [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04 0209 4238 System Administrator L plate Oracle DBA At 03:56 AM 27/06/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On June 27, 2001 07:55 am, Mark Leith wrote: > > slapping developers - what's the problem with them? > >No problem slapping developers rather enjoy it actually > >The issue I have with point & click is the increasing number of >database admins who can only use these tools. Put them in front of a >command line and they will sit and stare blankly. GUI tools can be >great (except when they're written in java :), but you should >actually know what you are doing and the 'how & why' behind it before >you start clicking a database to death. > >Just my cynical $.02. >Cheers, >GC >-- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Peter McLarty INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Mark, My only problem with GUI tools (and as an aside it was I believe Oracle's Migration GUI that failed for that member of the list) is that newbies use the tools and don't learn the underlying structure and data beneath them I think GUI tools are a great boon. If nothing else, it gives damagement a pretty screen to look at while I am working on something else :) Truly though, having a red light flash on a console to warn me of a lock is a good thing. In fact, the one incident I am thinking of, we were able to find the lock, clear it and have things back to normal as the phones starting ringing -- users calling to say "Oracle is down". We were able to tell them to wait a minute or two and try again, it was fixed. Rachel >From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:55:28 -0800 > >Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we >don't >deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count >reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you are >actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place.. > >I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL >Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I >simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will >make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people I >know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the >data that comes out of the a$$ end of it, in the time it takes to point and >click a button, and watch the lovely pretty graph that that GUI piece of >"junk" throws out for you.. > >I have never been a DBA (although that is probably where my heart is), but >I >do know that you guys are on extremely tight schedules, with a LOT to fit >in >to a day, and if you can have a lovely GUI tool that sits in background for >you monitoring your database, and alert you when there IS a problem, >leaving >you to move on to more interesting stuff like tuning your database >parameters (in command line if you wish), eating your doughnuts, drinking >coffee, and slapping developers - what's the problem with them? > >Mark > >Disclaimer: This is in no way the view of my employer, just my own >(probably >stupid) opinion. > >-Original Message- >Dayal >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:02 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > >>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan >about > >>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third >party GUI > >>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a >point & > >>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... > > >>Just my 50p :) > >But then I remember someone complaining of GUI'ed tool not doing right >Migration Job (after waiting for more than a day) for him right > >And that's the reason, the more you become familiar with Depths of >Databases more you start hating those so called "Easy to Use GUI >Tools"... > >My 50p ;-)) > >Rajesh >OC DBA 8&8i >-Original Message- >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:32 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >"I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate >information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." > >"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to >lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores >the >fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them >into >it in the first place." > >Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) > >By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life >- >you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected >it >for you ! :) > >NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of >venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast >expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves >in >the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run >their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure >they >can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of >their >small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to >fail? >If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He >h
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On June 27, 2001 07:55 am, Mark Leith wrote: > slapping developers - what's the problem with them? No problem slapping developers rather enjoy it actually The issue I have with point & click is the increasing number of database admins who can only use these tools. Put them in front of a command line and they will sit and stare blankly. GUI tools can be great (except when they're written in java :), but you should actually know what you are doing and the 'how & why' behind it before you start clicking a database to death. Just my cynical $.02. Cheers, GC -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gregory Conron INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we don't deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you are actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place.. I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people I know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the data that comes out of the a$$ end of it, in the time it takes to point and click a button, and watch the lovely pretty graph that that GUI piece of "junk" throws out for you.. I have never been a DBA (although that is probably where my heart is), but I do know that you guys are on extremely tight schedules, with a LOT to fit in to a day, and if you can have a lovely GUI tool that sits in background for you monitoring your database, and alert you when there IS a problem, leaving you to move on to more interesting stuff like tuning your database parameters (in command line if you wish), eating your doughnuts, drinking coffee, and slapping developers - what's the problem with them? Mark Disclaimer: This is in no way the view of my employer, just my own (probably stupid) opinion. -Original Message- Dayal Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:02 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L >>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about >>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI >>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & >>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... >>Just my 50p :) But then I remember someone complaining of GUI'ed tool not doing right Migration Job (after waiting for more than a day) for him right And that's the reason, the more you become familiar with Depths of Databases more you start hating those so called "Easy to Use GUI Tools"... My 50p ;-)) Rajesh OC DBA 8&8i -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :) NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing ?20,000 an hour because of system downtime. What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom line has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to run *most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat it well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap on your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job. You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... Just my 50p :) Mark -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 02:10 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was designed to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy transaction processing environment? Nope, b
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
>>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about >>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI >>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & >>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... >>Just my 50p :) But then I remember someone complaining of GUI'ed tool not doing right Migration Job (after waiting for more than a day) for him right And that's the reason, the more you become familiar with Depths of Databases more you start hating those so called "Easy to Use GUI Tools"... My 50p ;-)) Rajesh OC DBA 8&8i -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :) NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing ?20,000 an hour because of system downtime. What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom line has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to run *most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat it well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap on your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job. You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... Just my 50p :) Mark -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 02:10 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was designed to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers, and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows the ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just pisses me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine, but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of which you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I emphasize IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and often does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that you HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a good thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing, what you need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the parts of the system work together, how the different systems intera
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
"I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate information about a 3rd rate os on to others..." "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :) By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life - you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :) NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves in the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of their small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to fail? If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He has allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on a more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing ?20,000 an hour because of system downtime. What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom line has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to run *most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat it well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap on your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job. You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK... Just my 50p :) Mark -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 02:10 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was designed to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers, and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows the ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just pisses me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine, but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of which you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I emphasize IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and often does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that you HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a good thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing, what you need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the parts of the system work together, how the different systems interact, and how everything fits into the whole. Because I know what everything is doing, and how it behaves I can walk up to a windows machine and fix the problem. Windows is easy to use, easy to set up, and IS useful for the day to day things of the average end user. When I walk into a data center at sun, or TI, or nokia, or ericson, or eds, or any fab plant I see rows and rows of sun / hp boxes doing a whole range of high availability services. When I walk into broadwing or aperian or some other co-loc place that hosts a bunch of .com's and see rows of way over priced/powered dell servers hosting the 50 hits a day that averagestartup.com is getting then I think "fine... what has the world lost if that machine goes down? Do you thi
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
on't worry, I am > > reeeally impressed with your use of big words and how much you want to > stand > > up for you loving OS. If you would like you post your resume, IQ > score, SAT > > scores, Certifications and anything else for your sig instead of that quote > > about Bill Gates. I don't know, I am sensing a little anger and jealousy > > here towards poor old Bill!:) > > P.S. Keep it coming, this has been the most fun that my Exchange > server has > > ever delivered, I just hope it's up to the task:) > > > > KK > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:09 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically > > say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver > > that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session > > hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply > > messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a > > 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and > > dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram > > cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is > > wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of > > patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent > > product for end users. > > > > Thanks, > > jon > > > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > > it in the first place." > > > > -- Douglas Adams > > > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > > how it's done." > > > > -- Scott Adams > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote: > > > > > Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the > > > business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder > > pipe > > > dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is > > also > > > just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their > > computers > > > that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic > coding > > > at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright > > > KK > > > :) > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble > > > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't > > > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use > > > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell > > > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the > "better" :) > > > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you > > > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt > > > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 > > > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more > > > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a > > > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to > happiness > > > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > jon > > > > > > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly > ignores the > > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them > > into > > > it in the first place." > > > > > > -- Douglas Adams > > > > > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > > > how it's done." > > > > > > -- Scott Adams > > > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > > > > > :) > > > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
g, this has been the most fun that my Exchange server has > ever delivered, I just hope it's up to the task:) > > KK > > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:09 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically > say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver > that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session > hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply > messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a > 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and > dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram > cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is > wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of > patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent > product for end users. > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote: > > > Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the > > business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder > pipe > > dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is > also > > just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their > computers > > that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding > > at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright > > KK > > :) > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble > > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't > > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use > > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell > > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) > > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you > > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt > > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 > > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more > > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a > > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness > > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) > > > > Thanks, > > jon > > > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them > into > > it in the first place." > > > > -- Douglas Adams > > > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > > how it's done." > > > > -- Scott Adams > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > > > :) > > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > > > system worldview. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > > > To: Mohan, Ross > > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > > > > > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less > a > > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on > top > > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system > > > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Actually, I read it on my Palm Pilot, it must not have come through because the Palm isn't Unix based. I'll get on coding that first thing in the morning! Or perhaps, it's because you never said it. Don't worry, I am reeeally impressed with your use of big words and how much you want to stand up for you loving OS. If you would like you post your resume, IQ score, SAT scores, Certifications and anything else for your sig instead of that quote about Bill Gates. I don't know, I am sensing a little anger and jealousy here towards poor old Bill!:) P.S. Keep it coming, this has been the most fun that my Exchange server has ever delivered, I just hope it's up to the task:) KK -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote: > Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the > business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe > dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also > just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their computers > that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding > at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright > KK > :) > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > :) > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > > system worldview. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > > To: Mohan, Ross > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you ca
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
DaXXit!!! Oh well, it was worth the picture in my head though!! :) KK -Original Message- Edward Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It isn't monochrome anymore... Really! :-) http://www.themes.org/php/pic.phtml?src=shots/990462645.jpg -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:12 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their computers that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright KK :) * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent product for end users. Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote: > Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the > business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe > dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also > just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their computers > that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding > at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright > KK > :) > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > :) > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > > system worldview. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > > To: Mohan, Ross > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system > > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so > > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got > > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux > > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but > > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some > > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there > > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more > > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the > > future. > > > > Thanks, > > jon > > > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates ha
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
lol, thanks for the link ;) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > Thanks for the kudos, Jon. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:34 PM > To: Mohan, Ross > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > I see you've picked up some buzzwords like "PNG", "GPS", "nanokernel", and > no doubt "warez" where you got caught trading animal ascii porn through > > || Here's some new tricks for you, Master Downloader: > http://www.bbspot.com/Features/2001/06/cruise_quiz.php > > your company e-mail by a bored sysadmin who had nothing better to do than > to snoop on users. As for the MCSE and CISCO certified part, I cant tell > if thats your attempt at sarcasm or pride :) Nice job on using > multi-pathing in a completly different context though... glad to know that > someone is still thinks themselves 31337. > > TH4NX, > j0n > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > Dear Jon, > > > > I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput, > > but right now...I am having trouble... > > ...getting this darn application... > > ...to worksheesh! Good thing > > I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too! :-D > > > > Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel > > SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download > > the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the > > Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! > > Wh-! > > > > I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel! Didn't you? > > > > Yours in WareZ, Dude, > > > > etc. > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM > > To: Mohan, Ross > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble > > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't > > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use > > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell > > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) > > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you > > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt > > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 > > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more > > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a > > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness > > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) > > > > Thanks, > > jon > > > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them > into > > it in the first place." > > > > -- Douglas Adams > > > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > > how it's done." > > > > -- Scott Adams > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > > > :) > > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > > > system worldview. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Jon Allen [
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
It isn't monochrome anymore... Really! :-) http://www.themes.org/php/pic.phtml?src=shots/990462645.jpg -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:12 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their computers that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright KK :) * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
I see you've picked up some buzzwords like "PNG", "GPS", "nanokernel", and no doubt "warez" where you got caught trading animal ascii porn through your company e-mail by a bored sysadmin who had nothing better to do than to snoop on users. As for the MCSE and CISCO certified part, I cant tell if thats your attempt at sarcasm or pride :) Nice job on using multi-pathing in a completly different context though... glad to know that someone is still thinks themselves 31337. TH4NX, j0n "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > Dear Jon, > > I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput, > but right now...I am having trouble... > ...getting this darn application... > ...to worksheesh! Good thing > I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too! :-D > > Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel > SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download > the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the > Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! > Wh-! > > I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel! Didn't you? > > Yours in WareZ, Dude, > > etc. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM > To: Mohan, Ross > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > :) > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > > system worldview. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > > To: Mohan, Ross > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system > > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so > > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got > > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux > > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but > > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some > > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there > > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more > > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the > > future. > > > > Thanks, > > jon > > > > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared lik
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Thanks for the kudos, Jon. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:34 PM To: Mohan, Ross Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see you've picked up some buzzwords like "PNG", "GPS", "nanokernel", and no doubt "warez" where you got caught trading animal ascii porn through || Here's some new tricks for you, Master Downloader: http://www.bbspot.com/Features/2001/06/cruise_quiz.php your company e-mail by a bored sysadmin who had nothing better to do than to snoop on users. As for the MCSE and CISCO certified part, I cant tell if thats your attempt at sarcasm or pride :) Nice job on using multi-pathing in a completly different context though... glad to know that someone is still thinks themselves 31337. TH4NX, j0n "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > Dear Jon, > > I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput, > but right now...I am having trouble... > ...getting this darn application... > ...to worksheesh! Good thing > I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too! :-D > > Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel > SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download > the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the > Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! > Wh-! > > I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel! Didn't you? > > Yours in WareZ, Dude, > > etc. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM > To: Mohan, Ross > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > :) > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > > system worldview. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > > To: Mohan, Ross > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system > > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so > > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got > > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux > > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but > > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some > > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there > > arent a few extra digits in t
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
(sarcasm noted) but my question to those reporting high uptime measurements is: that measure isn't a measurement of database availability or application uptime... is it? so what, you've got a machine that's been up 32,000 days. what does it do? that would be my first question. which isn't really relevant to this post. i'm no unix guru but i do have experience with a variety of systems and i agree with some of your sentiments, imo it all boils down to the quality of your people and design/planning. if you have qualified, caring, and pro-active people who take the time to research, plan, implement and support systems the right way; you'll limit issues and problems, but there's no way you can plan for everything. in a perfect world... never mind. i understand that unix is a more developed platform than NT and i'm indifferent on which is better, but i don't think you should blast NT because the wealth of your knowledge is on *Nix. the original post asked for 24 x 7 on NT? as i said before, if you build from the ground up taking into consideration your environment you can supply the high-availability you require. it's more than hardware, operating systems, and people... that's just my take on it. i'm nobody, i'm still struggling with understanding some of the basic components of an oracle database but that's my story and i'm sticking to it. === Lerone Streeter System Analyst Abbott LBG [EMAIL PROTECTED] === -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Here's my Unix box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, 430.48, 3450.70 Here's my NT box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, 0.00070 So, obviously, NT sucks. . -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this year. Only 120 days till victory! # uptime 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70 -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one. -> ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes. ->Er.what I mean to say is.. -> -> -> ->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up ->4 or 5 nines, easy. -> ->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down ->about FIVE MINUTES a year. -> ->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list ->have done that this year? I bet less than ->one percent. well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i know i've been lucky. -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail mess
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Oooh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their computers that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright KK :) -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > :) > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > system worldview. > > -Original Message- > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > To: Mohan, Ross > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the > future. > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > Here's my Unix box: > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, > > 430.48, 3450.70 > > > > Here's my NT box: > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, > 0.00070 > > > > > > So, obviously, NT sucks. . > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape > > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the > > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this > year. > > Only 120 days till victory! > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70 > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM > > To: M
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
The best part about this post is, is that when the original thread was posted I KNEW it would turn into this:) hehehheh KK -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Dear Jon, I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput, but right now...I am having trouble... ...getting this darn application... ...to worksheesh! Good thing I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too! :-D Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! Wh-! I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel! Didn't you? Yours in WareZ, Dude, etc. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM To: Mohan, Ross Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > :) > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > system worldview. > > -Original Message- > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > To: Mohan, Ross > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the > future. > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > Here's my Unix box: > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, > > 430.48, 3450.70 > > > > Here's my NT box: > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, > 0.00070 > > > > > > So, obviously, NT sucks. . > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape > > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the > > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this > year. > > Only 120 days till victory! > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 us
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :) Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10 million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :) Thanks, jon "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -- Douglas Adams "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done." -- Scott Adams On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > :) > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating > system worldview. > > -Original Message- > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM > To: Mohan, Ross > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT? > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the > future. > > Thanks, > jon > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into > it in the first place." > > -- Douglas Adams > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you > how it's done." > > -- Scott Adams > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote: > > > Here's my Unix box: > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, > > 430.48, 3450.70 > > > > Here's my NT box: > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, > 0.00070 > > > > > > So, obviously, NT sucks. . > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape > > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the > > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this > year. > > Only 120 days till victory! > > > > # uptime > > 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70 > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: > > > > ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one. > > -> > > ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd > > ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes. > > ->Er.what I mean to say is.. > > -> > > -> > > -> > > ->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way > > ->to find a *very goo
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Here's my Unix box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19, 430.48, 3450.70 Here's my NT box: # uptime 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008, 0.00070 So, obviously, NT sucks. . -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this year. Only 120 days till victory! # uptime 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70 -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one. -> ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes. ->Er.what I mean to say is.. -> -> -> ->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up ->4 or 5 nines, easy. -> ->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down ->about FIVE MINUTES a year. -> ->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list ->have done that this year? I bet less than ->one percent. well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i know i've been lucky. -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've ->got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that ->much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i know i've ->been lucky. -> ->|| You've had FORTY databases up for more than a year??? Color me ->incredulous. nope 40 unix boxen, only 25 databases. -> ->|| What's the story with yer sig? -> ->-- ->Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA ->***==> Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. ->- Kulawiec -> one of the cookies from my file. i have a program that shooses one at random and inserts it into my .sig. -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this year. Only 120 days till victory! # uptime 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70 -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one. -> ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes. ->Er.what I mean to say is.. -> -> -> ->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up ->4 or 5 nines, easy. -> ->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down ->about FIVE MINUTES a year. -> ->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list ->have done that this year? I bet less than ->one percent. well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i know i've been lucky. -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i know i've been lucky. || You've had FORTY databases up for more than a year??? Color me incredulous. || What's the story with yer sig? -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA ***==> Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one. -> ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes. ->Er.what I mean to say is.. -> -> -> ->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up ->4 or 5 nines, easy. -> ->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down ->about FIVE MINUTES a year. -> ->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list ->have done that this year? I bet less than ->one percent. well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i know i've been lucky. -- Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
