RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Niall Litchfield]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Mogens Nørgaard
> Sent: 27 October 2003 05:34
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> 
> 
> You had everybody convinced by your speach down there in 
> South Africa!

Not me. Quite. My arguments will be up at
www.niall.litchfield.dial.pipex.com/sadebate.html shortly. Too much FUD
for me. 


> I 
> think actually SQL Server SE is 1/3, not 2/3, of Oracle SE 
> and 1/2 of EE 
> as you state. DB2 is about the same as SQL Server. No idea 
> about Sybase.

That is probably list price rather than actual price. 

> 
> I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no 
> extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), and 
> include all the other options at no extra price in EE. I 
> always wondered 
> how much extra revenue these options really generated compared to all 
> the extra work required to convince people and manage 
> separate options, etc.

Nice idea but I'm not sure. We generate instances when there is a new
'project' that needs a db server. Now technically we should probably add
schemas to an instance but as 

A) no-one knows if 3 people or 3000 will use this app and
B) what load will it place on the server

Sticking it on a new pizza-box compaq server which is SAN attached seems
fine. If it turns out we had a good idea we will buy it proper hardware.
Next time you see Julian ask him about Rob and buying servers. We write
these boxes off aver 3 years. We generate at least 3 new db driven
projects per year. 

So now consider RAC then.In any one year we are likely to have to
consider moving 4 projects onto a rac box. These currently have at least
4*2 processors. Thus we move from 4 SE licenses * 2 procs to at least 1
EE license * 8 procs + RAC etc. Then there is fail over, suddenly its
data guard etc. Ummm attractive not. Std one? Well anyone here running a
production database on a single CPU box is welcome to step forward. 

> The OLAP thing, for instance, is included in SQL Server EE, 
> but not in 
> Oracle EE. But Oracle has other unique options (the security stuff, 
> etc.) that would make it a good bargain then.
> 
> I think you're right: Oracle is too expensive at the moment for most 
> uses and users.

You were kind enough not to mention what happens when the MSDE engine
gets into the OS in (say) 2005. I fear that move will kill Oracle corp.


Niall 

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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[hrishy]

Hi All

oracle taking over redhat...makes lotta of
sense...actually..

Redhat ProductsOracle Products
Redahat DatabaseOracle Database
Redhat collabration suite   oracel collab
suite
Redhat Devlopement env  Oracle ids
Redhat strongholdweb & app severOracel9ias
Redhat portal framework orcale portal


makes strategic sense :-)..Hope larry and marketing
gurus are lsitening :-0

regards
Hrishy

P.S:This is waht happnes when DBA start acting like
marketing gurus :-)
 --- Mark Leith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And
this is a good thing?
> 
> ;)
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Mladen Gogala
> Sent: 27 October 2003 14:24
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> I believe that Red Hat would be much better
> acquisition target then
> PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to
> like the idea,
> second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would
> be much cheaper
> and would help oracle branch into other areas, where
> they could
> bundle database in a "enterprise package" and,
> basically, become
> another Microsoft.
> 
> On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
> > Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices,
> there are several
> > factors
> > to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's
> bottom line? Would
> > sales
> > increase dramatically enough to keep overall
> revenue from falling? I
> > think
> > the stagnant economy over the last few years has
> been tough on
> > everyone and
> > there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found.
> >Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react?
> Years ago, Oracle's
> > main
> > competitors were Sybase and Informix, database
> companies like Oracle.
> > Now
> > the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where
> database revenues
> > are a
> > minor portion of their revenues, at least that is
> my impression.
> > Maybe
> > not a
> > smart idea to start a price war with someone that
> is not very
> > dependent on
> > database revenues.
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:
> >
> > > I have this radical idea that Oracle should
> include RAC in SE at no
> > extra
> >
> > > price (I think that would spread the product
> fast :) ),
> >
> > That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC
> is a great tool for
> > those
> > who
> > need it, but it's far too complex for the "general
> public", if such
> > creature
> >
> > exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to
> overextend support
> > and
> > give
> > the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge
> controversy which would
> > probably
> > result in a significant product deterioration.
> That would be shame,
> > because
> >
> > clustered databases can be extremely useful in the
> environments that
> > need
> > them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do "10
> Teraflops on my
> > database"
> >
> > would probably result in a disaster for the
> product itself.
> >
> > In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by
> the competition, they
> > should
> >
> > cut prices across the board and not get creative
> with the options. I
> > believe
> >
> > that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a
> step in the right
> > direction.
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Mladen Gogala
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and
> web hosting services
> >
>
-
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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> ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
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> > also send the HELP command for other information
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> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
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> > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> >
> 
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> 
> 
> 
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use on

RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

I remember reading something about this a couple of years ago.  Another
Larry pipe-dream.  That he would keep developing the Rdbms-kernel so that he
didn't need the any op-systems.

If you think about it, the Rdbms is close to being it's own op-system.  It
provides a service on a machine performing reads&writes to disk and manages
memory structures.  It probably does not have that much farther to go to
skip calls to any op-system.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


And this is a good thing?

;)


-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: 27 October 2003 14:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I believe that Red Hat would be much better acquisition target then
PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to like the idea,
second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would be much cheaper
and would help oracle branch into other areas, where they could
bundle database in a "enterprise package" and, basically, become
another Microsoft.

On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
> Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several
> factors
> to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would
> sales
> increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I
> think
> the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on
> everyone and
> there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found.
>Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's
> main
> competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle.
> Now
> the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues
> are a
> minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression.
> Maybe
> not a
> smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very
> dependent on
> database revenues.
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:
>
> > I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no
> extra
>
> > price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ),
>
> That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for
> those
> who
> need it, but it's far too complex for the "general public", if such
> creature
>
> exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support
> and
> give
> the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would
> probably
> result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame,
> because
>
> clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that
> need
> them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do "10 Teraflops on my
> database"
>
> would probably result in a disaster for the product itself.
>
> In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they
> should
>
> cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I
> believe
>
> that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right
> direction.
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Mladen Gogala
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Mark Leith]

And this is a good thing?

;)


-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: 27 October 2003 14:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I believe that Red Hat would be much better acquisition target then
PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to like the idea,
second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would be much cheaper
and would help oracle branch into other areas, where they could
bundle database in a "enterprise package" and, basically, become
another Microsoft.

On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
> Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several
> factors
> to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would
> sales
> increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I
> think
> the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on
> everyone and
> there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found.
>Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's
> main
> competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle.
> Now
> the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues
> are a
> minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression.
> Maybe
> not a
> smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very
> dependent on
> database revenues.
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:
>
> > I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no
> extra
>
> > price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ),
>
> That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for
> those
> who
> need it, but it's far too complex for the "general public", if such
> creature
>
> exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support
> and
> give
> the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would
> probably
> result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame,
> because
>
> clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that
> need
> them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do "10 Teraflops on my
> database"
>
> would probably result in a disaster for the product itself.
>
> In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they
> should
>
> cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I
> believe
>
> that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right
> direction.
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Mladen Gogala
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 8

Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Mladen Gogala]

I believe that Red Hat would be much better acquisition target then  
PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to like the idea,
second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would be much cheaper
and would help oracle branch into other areas, where they could
bundle database in a "enterprise package" and, basically, become  
another Microsoft.

On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several
factors
to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would
sales
increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I
think
the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on
everyone and
there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found.
   Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's  
main
competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle.
Now
the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues
are a
minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression.  
Maybe
not a
smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very
dependent on
database revenues.

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:

> I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no
extra
> price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ),

That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for
those
who
need it, but it's far too complex for the "general public", if such
creature
exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support
and
give
the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would
probably
result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame,
because
clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that
need
them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do "10 Teraflops on my
database"
would probably result in a disaster for the product itself.

In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they
should
cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I
believe
that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right
direction.
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA


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immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies 
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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where 
the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the 
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 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several factors
to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would sales
increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I think
the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on everyone and
there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found.
   Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's main
competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle. Now
the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues are a
minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression. Maybe not a
smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very dependent on
database revenues. 

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:

> I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra

> price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ),

That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those
who  
need it, but it's far too complex for the "general public", if such creature

exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and
give  
the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would
probably  
result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because

clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need  
them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do "10 Teraflops on my database"

would probably result in a disaster for the product itself.

In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should

cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe

that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction.
-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Mladen Gogala]

On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:

I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra  
price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ),
That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those who  
need it, but it's far too complex for the "general public", if such creature  
exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and give  
the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would probably  
result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because  
clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need  
them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do "10 Teraflops on my database"  
would probably result in a disaster for the product itself.

In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should  
cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe  
that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction.
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Mogens Nørgaard]

You had everybody convinced by your speach down there in South Africa! I 
think actually SQL Server SE is 1/3, not 2/3, of Oracle SE and 1/2 of EE 
as you state. DB2 is about the same as SQL Server. No idea about Sybase.

I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no 
extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), and 
include all the other options at no extra price in EE. I always wondered 
how much extra revenue these options really generated compared to all 
the extra work required to convince people and manage separate options, etc.

The OLAP thing, for instance, is included in SQL Server EE, but not in 
Oracle EE. But Oracle has other unique options (the security stuff, 
etc.) that would make it a good bargain then.

I think you're right: Oracle is too expensive at the moment for most 
uses and users.

Mogens

Niall Litchfield wrote:

Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
you use on production systems. 

It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. 

Niall 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of Ryan
Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?

anyone know the differences in prices?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
   

http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
   

archives.asp?ArticleID=4
 

5368

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Grant Allen]

[ .. snip snip ..]

Sorry, correcting my own transposition

> (a 
> page in SS2000 is eight 8kB extents)

That should have read an extent is eight 8kB pages in SS2000.

I'll go back to my cave, now.

Ciao
Fuzzy
:-)
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Grant Allen]

> -Original Message-
> From: Rothouse, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, 27 October 2003 00:04
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> 
> 
> I realized in my hasty response that I failed to complete my
> thought/question.  My response should have been:  
> 
> IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other.  Are they?
> 
> As you mention, by definition they do appear similar.  I originally
> thought more about how they are used as it appears (from my 
> experiences
> anyway) that clustered indexes are utilized more frequently in SQL
> Server/Sybase than IOTs in Oracle.  I too am curious as to 
> when it is an
> advantage or disadvantage to utilize an IOT.  I read 
> somewhere that IOTs
> are best suited for lookup tables.  Tables with a large number of
> columns are not a very good IOT candidate.  I'm just not experienced
> enough in understanding why that is.

Given I threw up the little list, I'll throw in my two cents.  My understanding of the 
difference between Oracle IOTs and SQL Server tables with clustered indexes is as 
follows.

Oracle IOT: (Quoting Oracle SQL Syntax guide) "Oracle maintains the table rows (both 
primary key column values and nonkey column values) in an index built on the primary 
key."  Which to me means the IOT structure contains complete rows in all blocks of the 
index structure - root block, branch blocks, leaf blocks.  (I'm willing to be 
corrected here ... in fact, I'd like someone to :-) ).

SS table w. clustered index:  A SQL Server clustered index builds a standard b-tree 
structure for the root and branch pages, but leaf pages are the actual data pages 
themselves (a page in SS2000 is eight 8kB extents), rather than pointers to the data 
pages (as per a standard index).  As such, only the leaf pages contain complete data 
rows.

A minor difference, but a difference none the less.

Any criticisms welcome (it's a Monday, and the coffee has run out.  Believe me, 
nothing you say can affect me now :-) ).

Ciao
Fuzzy
:-)
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Rothouse, Michael]

I realized in my hasty response that I failed to complete my
thought/question.  My response should have been:  

IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other.  Are they?

As you mention, by definition they do appear similar.  I originally
thought more about how they are used as it appears (from my experiences
anyway) that clustered indexes are utilized more frequently in SQL
Server/Sybase than IOTs in Oracle.  I too am curious as to when it is an
advantage or disadvantage to utilize an IOT.  I read somewhere that IOTs
are best suited for lookup tables.  Tables with a large number of
columns are not a very good IOT candidate.  I'm just not experienced
enough in understanding why that is.

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Really?  I'm curious, because after reading up on Index-Organized
Tables, they sound actually pretty similar.

Clustered Index: an "ordering ruleset" for the data on the disk.
IOT: a method to store oracle rows in a b*Tree format instead of the
default rowid-controlled heap.

So, generically, both are ways you can control the physical order of the
data on your disk.  Is there more to it than this simplistic
explanation?  

Followup question: why not have EVERY table be an IOT in oracle?

(notwithstanding the known limitations of IOTs; no longs, no clustering)

Boss

> 
> IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other.
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:44 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's.  Our 
> OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being
> considered) migrated to MSSQL2000.
> 
> I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has 
> sequences. I think MS calls it identity.  I think MS also has IOT, 
> which they call clustered indexes.  MS might even have function based 
> indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure.  Anyone care to comment?
> 
> Abey.
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM
> 
> 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> > >
> > >
> > > what is MSEE lacking in?
> >
> > 
> >
> > Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
> >
> > No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based 
> > indexes,
> > no
> domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before 
> triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger

> event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... 
> modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over 
> extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, 
> no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception 
> handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no 
> multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no

> escalation-free locking, no index organised tables.
> >
> > (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked
> > this
> before? :-))
> >
> > Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
> >
> > Ciao
> > Fuzzy
> > :-)
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Grant Allen
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
services
> > 
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the 
> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may also
send 
> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Abey Joseph
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> To REMOVE yourself from this m

Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Todd Boss]

Identity has come a LONG way in Sybase since its initial introduction
back in Sybase v10.0 (1994).  In fact, the latest versions of Sybase
have identities tuned almost to where they emulate a monotonically
increasing sequence in every capacity (if you set the parameters 
correctly).  

I've never seen duplicate values with it though.  The most common
complaint is with "gaps" in the assigned values (since Sybase caches
large chunks of numbers to pre-use, and loses them upon abnormal
shutdowns).  However, there's remedies even for that situation.
(see http://www.sypron.nl/idgaps.html for a great writeup).

Surf to http://www.isug.com/Sybase_FAQ/ASE/section6.2.html#6.2.9
for more information.  That's the direct link to the Identity 
section of the Sybase FAQ ... its a little dated but most of the 
info is still valid.  I actually wrote this "answer" for the 
Sybase FAQ back in 1997 (so yes i know what i'm talking about, 
i think.  :-) )

Todd Boss (a true Sybase dba now hanging out in an oracle world).


> 
> "IDENTITY" does not have exactly "SEQUENCE" functionality.
> It is a property, you can assign to a column.  And it has "buggy"
> implementation, I've seen duplicate values (not sure about the latest
> version).  So be careful with this feature.
> 
> As for "clustered indexes" - you are correct.  Actually SQL Server
> (Sybase) had them before Oracle implemented IOTs.
> 
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Abey Joseph
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:44 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's.  Our
> OLTP
> systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being
> considered)
> migrated to MSSQL2000.
> 
> I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has
> sequences.
> I think MS calls it identity.  I think MS also has IOT, which they call
> clustered indexes.  MS might even have function based indexes with
> SQL2000,
> but not very sure.  Anyone care to comment?
> 
> Abey.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM
> 
> 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> > >
> > >
> > > what is MSEE lacking in?
> >
> > 
> >
> > Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
> >
> > No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes,
> no
> domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before
> triggers
> (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no
> 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no
> built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no
> control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no
> synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc
> language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring
> of
> log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no
> index
> organised tables.
> >
> > (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked
> this
> before? :-))
> >
> > Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
> >
> > Ciao
> > Fuzzy
> > :-)
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Grant Allen
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Abey Joseph
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> 

Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Todd Boss]

Really?  I'm curious, because after reading up on Index-Organized
Tables, they sound actually pretty similar.

Clustered Index: an "ordering ruleset" for the data on the disk.
IOT: a method to store oracle rows in a b*Tree format instead of
the default rowid-controlled heap.

So, generically, both are ways you can control the physical order
of the data on your disk.  Is there more to it than this simplistic
explanation?  

Followup question: why not have EVERY table be an IOT in oracle?

(notwithstanding the known limitations of IOTs; no longs, no clustering)

Boss

> 
> IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other.
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:44 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's.  Our
> OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being
> considered) migrated to MSSQL2000.
> 
> I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has
> sequences. I think MS calls it identity.  I think MS also has IOT, which
> they call clustered indexes.  MS might even have function based indexes
> with SQL2000, but not very sure.  Anyone care to comment?
> 
> Abey.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM
> 
> 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> > >
> > >
> > > what is MSEE lacking in?
> >
> > 
> >
> > Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
> >
> > No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, 
> > no
> domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before
> triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger
> event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*...
> modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent
> size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no
> sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in
> stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or
> mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free
> locking, no index organised tables.
> >
> > (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked 
> > this
> before? :-))
> >
> > Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
> >
> > Ciao
> > Fuzzy
> > :-)
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Grant Allen
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the 
> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may also send 
> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Abey Joseph
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Rothouse, Michael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Rothouse, Michael]

IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other.

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's.  Our
OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being
considered) migrated to MSSQL2000.

I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has
sequences. I think MS calls it identity.  I think MS also has IOT, which
they call clustered indexes.  MS might even have function based indexes
with SQL2000, but not very sure.  Anyone care to comment?

Abey.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM


> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> >
> >
> > what is MSEE lacking in?
>
> 
>
> Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
>
> No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, 
> no
domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before
triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger
event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*...
modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent
size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no
sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in
stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or
mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free
locking, no index organised tables.
>
> (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked 
> this
before? :-))
>
> Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
>
> Ciao
> Fuzzy
> :-)
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Grant Allen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the 
> name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may also send 
> the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Abey Joseph
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Igor Neyman]

"IDENTITY" does not have exactly "SEQUENCE" functionality.
It is a property, you can assign to a column.  And it has "buggy"
implementation, I've seen duplicate values (not sure about the latest
version).  So be careful with this feature.

As for "clustered indexes" - you are correct.  Actually SQL Server
(Sybase) had them before Oracle implemented IOTs.

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
Abey Joseph
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's.  Our
OLTP
systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being
considered)
migrated to MSSQL2000.

I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has
sequences.
I think MS calls it identity.  I think MS also has IOT, which they call
clustered indexes.  MS might even have function based indexes with
SQL2000,
but not very sure.  Anyone care to comment?

Abey.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM


> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> >
> >
> > what is MSEE lacking in?
>
> 
>
> Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
>
> No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes,
no
domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before
triggers
(can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no
3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no
built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no
control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no
synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc
language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring
of
log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no
index
organised tables.
>
> (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked
this
before? :-))
>
> Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
>
> Ciao
> Fuzzy
> :-)
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Grant Allen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
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-- 
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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Jared Still]

'identity' is not the same as a sequence.

An identity column is a self incrementing column for
use as a PK.  As it's only use is to increment a 
column value, it is not quite as powerful as a sequence.

Jared

On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 11:44, Abey Joseph wrote:
> My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's.  Our OLTP
> systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered)
> migrated to MSSQL2000.
> 
> I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences.
> I think MS calls it identity.  I think MS also has IOT, which they call
> clustered indexes.  MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000,
> but not very sure.  Anyone care to comment?
> 
> Abey.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM
> 
> 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> > >
> > >
> > > what is MSEE lacking in?
> >
> > 
> >
> > Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
> >
> > No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no
> domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers
> (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no
> 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no
> built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no
> control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no
> synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc
> language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of
> log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index
> organised tables.
> >
> > (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this
> before? :-))
> >
> > Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
> >
> > Ciao
> > Fuzzy
> > :-)
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Grant Allen
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Abey Joseph
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 


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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Abey Joseph]

My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's.  Our OLTP
systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered)
migrated to MSSQL2000.

I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences.
I think MS calls it identity.  I think MS also has IOT, which they call
clustered indexes.  MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000,
but not very sure.  Anyone care to comment?

Abey.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM


> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> >
> >
> > what is MSEE lacking in?
>
> 
>
> Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
>
> No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no
domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers
(can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no
3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no
built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no
control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no
synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc
language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of
log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index
organised tables.
>
> (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this
before? :-))
>
> Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
>
> Ciao
> Fuzzy
> :-)
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Grant Allen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Abey Joseph
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Stephen.Lee]

You forgot No Unix.

> -Original Message-
> 
> Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
> 
> No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based 
> indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object 
> tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no 
> multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language 
> support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in 
> OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no 
> control over block size, no star query optimisation, no 
> sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception 
> handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union 
> operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no 
> cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index 
> organised tables.
> 
> (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've 
> been asked this before? :-))
> 
> Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Goulet, Dick]

Agree!

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 6:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
you use on production systems. 

It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. 

Niall 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Ryan
> Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> 
> 
> what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?
> 
> anyone know the differences in prices?
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
> 
> 
> > 
> http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
archives.asp?ArticleID=4
> > 5368
> >
> > Dick Goulet
> > Senior Oracle DBA
> > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Goulet, Dick
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
> > 
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the 
> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may 
> also send 
> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Ryan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
> information (like subscribing).
> 

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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[setiady]

How about we reverse the question? Can you name any?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:19 AM


> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> >
> >
> > what is MSEE lacking in?
>
> 
>
> Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...
>
> No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no
domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers
(can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no
3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no
built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no
control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no
synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc
language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of
log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index
organised tables.
>
> (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this
before? :-))
>
> Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)
>
> Ciao
> Fuzzy
> :-)


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: setiady
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Grant Allen]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> 
> 
> what is MSEE lacking in?



Here's a start.  MSSQLServer EE has ...

No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain 
indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, 
not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la 
Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control 
over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no 
sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc 
language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, 
no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables.

(Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-))

Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-)

Ciao
Fuzzy
:-)
-- 
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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Ryan]

what is MSEE lacking in?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:14 PM


> Niall
>   When I reviewed the options, it seemed that if you were in the market
for
> SQL Server, then Oracle SE was more the choice for you. While MS has
copied
> the SE and EE terms (and I see IBM has also), I really didn't find MS EE
> comparable to Oracle EE. More like MS EE vs. Oracle SE. Then the pricing
is
> actually in Oracle's favor, IIRC.
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:24 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
> price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
> Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
> you use on production systems.
>
> It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
> Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
> overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
> pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO.
>
> Niall
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Ryan
> > Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> >
> >
> > what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?
> >
> > anyone know the differences in prices?
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
> archives.asp?ArticleID=4
> > > 5368
> > >
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > Senior Oracle DBA
> > > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Goulet, Dick
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> > hosting services
> > >
> > -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the
> > > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send
> > > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Ryan
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
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> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > information (like subscribing).
> >
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Niall Litchfield
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> --
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> --
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> ---

RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[David Mitchell]

If you're getting Oracle software cheaper than MS pricing then we really need to talk 
because all of the quotes I've gotten have Oracle far more expensive than Sql Server.  
We actually run both Sql Server SE and Oracle EE here so I can obviously pay far less 
for Sql Server SE but I just did a quick check and I can get, via some pretty good 
Select pricing, Sql Server EE for $7059 per processor.  My last quote from Oracle for 
EE was $30,000 per processor after a 25% discount.  There are obviously quite a few 
differences in functionality and I prefer to use Oracle, but all of our future 
development will be going the Sql Server route as it does what we need at far cheaper 
prices.  I've been watching these pricing posts with some interest but I have to admit 
that unless I'm missing something significant I just can't comprehend how people are 
claiming Oracle is cheaper.  Oracle needs to lower prices or they will continue to 
lose smaller customers like us.

David

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Niall
  When I reviewed the options, it seemed that if you were in the market for
SQL Server, then Oracle SE was more the choice for you. While MS has copied
the SE and EE terms (and I see IBM has also), I really didn't find MS EE
comparable to Oracle EE. More like MS EE vs. Oracle SE. Then the pricing is
actually in Oracle's favor, IIRC. 

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
you use on production systems. 

It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. 

Niall 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Ryan
> Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> 
> 
> what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?
> 
> anyone know the differences in prices?
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
> 
> 
> > 
> http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
archives.asp?ArticleID=4
> > 5368
> >
> > Dick Goulet
> > Senior Oracle DBA
> > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Goulet, Dick
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
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> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may 
> also send 
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> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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> Author: Ryan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Niall
  When I reviewed the options, it seemed that if you were in the market for
SQL Server, then Oracle SE was more the choice for you. While MS has copied
the SE and EE terms (and I see IBM has also), I really didn't find MS EE
comparable to Oracle EE. More like MS EE vs. Oracle SE. Then the pricing is
actually in Oracle's favor, IIRC. 

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
you use on production systems. 

It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. 

Niall 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Ryan
> Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> 
> 
> what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?
> 
> anyone know the differences in prices?
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
> 
> 
> > 
> http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
archives.asp?ArticleID=4
> > 5368
> >
> > Dick Goulet
> > Senior Oracle DBA
> > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Goulet, Dick
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
> > 
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
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> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may 
> also send 
> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Ryan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Ryan]

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/compare/pricecomparison.asp

so sql server is $20k/CPU for the enterprise edition. how flexible are they
in negotiating price? We got ours for $22k/CPU.

any idea what the support costs are? I couldnt dig those up?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 6:24 PM


> Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
> price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
> Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
> you use on production systems.
>
> It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
> Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
> overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
> pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO.
>
> Niall
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Ryan
> > Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> >
> >
> > what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?
> >
> > anyone know the differences in prices?
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
> archives.asp?ArticleID=4
> > > 5368
> > >
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > Senior Oracle DBA
> > > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Goulet, Dick
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> > hosting services
> > >
> > -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> > > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send
> > > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Ryan
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
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> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > information (like subscribing).
> >
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Niall Litchfield
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Ryan]

i thought reads still block writes in sql server? doesnt this really hurt
performance in high transaction databases?

whaty is the pricing of sql server? We negotiated oracle pricing down to
$22k/CPU and 22% cost for support/year. how much do the rest of you pay? We
got our development server for $8000 for a 2 CPU box.
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 6:24 PM


> Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
> price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
> Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
> you use on production systems.
>
> It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
> Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
> overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
> pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO.
>
> Niall
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Ryan
> > Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> >
> >
> > what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?
> >
> > anyone know the differences in prices?
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
> archives.asp?ArticleID=4
> > > 5368
> > >
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > Senior Oracle DBA
> > > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Goulet, Dick
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> > hosting services
> > >
> > -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> > > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send
> > > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Ryan
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
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> >
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Niall Litchfield
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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-- 
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-- 
Author: Ryan
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Niall Litchfield]

Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the
price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of
Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers
you use on production systems. 

It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA,
Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously
overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One
pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. 

Niall 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Ryan
> Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
> 
> 
> what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?
> 
> anyone know the differences in prices?
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
> 
> 
> > 
> http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily>
archives.asp?ArticleID=4
> > 5368
> >
> > Dick Goulet
> > Senior Oracle DBA
> > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Goulet, Dick
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
> > 
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may 
> also send 
> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Ryan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> 

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-- 
Author: Niall Litchfield
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Goulet, Dick]

NO, not really, but I was hoping based on Uncle Larry's statements.  Lets put it this 
way, IF we could get a site license from Oracle (As Uncle Larry defined it) for the 
same price per year, or less, as our current support contract the discussions about 
SQL*Server and PostGreSql would come to a screeching halt.  Then the only "fly in the 
ointment" would be HP-UX.  Linux will probably replace the it, someday.

Now if there's a courageous Oracle employee out there who wants to forward things!!!

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 10:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


And this surprises you???

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Technical Alliance Manager
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (313) 227-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Web:www.compuware.com 

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Oracle pricing ain't going down

http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=45368

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA
-- 
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-- 
Author: Goulet, Dick
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The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
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RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Karniotis, Stephen]

And this surprises you???

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Technical Alliance Manager
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (313) 227-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Web:www.compuware.com 

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Oracle pricing ain't going down

http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=45368

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA
-- 
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-- 
Author: Goulet, Dick
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Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down

[Ryan]

what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing?

anyone know the differences in prices?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM


> http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=45368
>
> Dick Goulet
> Senior Oracle DBA
> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Goulet, Dick
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
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Author: Ryan
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Oracle pricing question

[Ron Rogers]

Patrice,
 The listing I have 09-06-2002, has separate prices for the options you
listed. Prices are for "named users license" and "Processor license".
There might be a newer price list out but I haven't found it yet. The
prices I show are 
EE 800/40,000
Spatial 200/10,000
Advanced Security 200/10,000
Label Security 200/10,
Data Mining 400/20,000
OLAP 400/20,000
Partitionong 200/10,000
RAC 400/20,000

Ron


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/03 11:14AM >>>
Oracle used to sell databases "options" as add-ons to Oracle EE.

I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed
anywhere.

Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with
the EE
license now?

That would be nice.

: )

Patrice.
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RE: Oracle pricing question

[Gogala, Mladen]

That's a big sale, something like your friendly neighborhood
Dodge sale. You can get Oracle Ram, with world's most powerful
V8 engine and $3000 cashback with 0.7 APR. All bells and whistles
like the Spatial Option, Transparent Gateways and Advanced Networking
are included.

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Oracle used to sell databases "options" as add-ons to Oracle EE.

I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere.

Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE
license now?

That would be nice.

: )

Patrice.
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RE: Oracle pricing question

[Boivin, Patrice J]

never mind, 4 seconds after I sent the e-mail I saw the items listed on a
web page...

sigh.

Patrice.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:15 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'


Oracle used to sell databases "options" as add-ons to Oracle EE.

I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere.

Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE
license now?

That would be nice.

: )

Patrice.
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RE: Oracle pricing...

[Amar Kumar Padhi]

Title: RE: Oracle pricing...





Guys,
Thanks for the insight!


rgds
amar
http://amzone.netfirms.com



-Original Message-
From: Karniotis, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:19 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Oracle pricing...



Not only applies for web based applications, but also for TP monitoring
applications like CICS, Tuxedo, etc.  Some clients actually priced the
number of concurrent connections via these TP monitors versus the 10,000 or
so users that use them.  Ouch!


Thank You


Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:    www.compuware.com


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    Re:Oracle pricing...


Named User pricing is for individuals you can name.  The Oracle installed
users
SYS, SYSTEM, DBSNMP, OUTLN, etc do not count.  BTW: That does not mean that
if
one person at your company is on the day shift that they can pass their
account
on to someone on the night shift.  In this case you have 2 named users and
have
to pay accordingly.  Also don't ever, under any circumstances attach any
type of
WEB or transaction server to this database.  You'll need CPU licensing for
that.
 Oracle interprets Named Users very tightly. BTDT, OUCH!!


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Author: Amar Kumar Padhi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/9/2002 2:08 AM


Hi, 
found the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is
Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for
Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. 


Product  Named users Licence   Processor Licence
Oracle db(enterprise) 800  4   
Oracle db(standard)   300  15000
Oracle db(personal)   400  -- 


rgds
amar
http://amzone.netfirms.com








Oracle pricing...




Hi, 
found the following information on
Oracle
site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this
calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc.



Product  &nbs
p;&n
bsp;  Named users Licence   Processor
Licence
Oracle
db(enterprise)
800&
nbsp
; 4   
Oracle
db(standard)  
300&
nbsp
; 15000
Oracle
db(personal)  
400&
nbsp
; -- 



rgds
amar
http://amzone.netfirms.com"
TARGET="_blank">http://amzone.netfirms.com





-- 
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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it. 


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Karniotis, Stephen
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Oracle pricing...

[Karniotis, Stephen]

Not only applies for web based applications, but also for TP monitoring
applications like CICS, Tuxedo, etc.  Some clients actually priced the
number of concurrent connections via these TP monitors versus the 10,000 or
so users that use them.  Ouch!

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:www.compuware.com

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re:Oracle pricing...

Named User pricing is for individuals you can name.  The Oracle installed
users
SYS, SYSTEM, DBSNMP, OUTLN, etc do not count.  BTW: That does not mean that
if
one person at your company is on the day shift that they can pass their
account
on to someone on the night shift.  In this case you have 2 named users and
have
to pay accordingly.  Also don't ever, under any circumstances attach any
type of
WEB or transaction server to this database.  You'll need CPU licensing for
that.
 Oracle interprets Named Users very tightly. BTDT, OUCH!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Amar Kumar Padhi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/9/2002 2:08 AM

Hi, 
found the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is
Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for
Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. 

Product  Named users Licence   Processor Licence
Oracle db(enterprise) 800  4   
Oracle db(standard)   300  15000
Oracle db(personal)   400  -- 

rgds
amar
http://amzone.netfirms.com







Oracle pricing...



Hi, 
found the following information on
Oracle
site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this
calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc.


Product  &nbs
p;&n
bsp;  Named users Licence   Processor
Licence
Oracle
db(enterprise)
800&
nbsp
; 4   
Oracle
db(standard)  
300&
nbsp
; 15000
Oracle
db(personal)  
400&
nbsp
; -- 


rgds
amar
http://amzone.netfirms.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://amzone.netfirms.com




-- 
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The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it. 

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Re: Oracle pricing...

[Jay Hostetter]

Amar,

 "All human users and non-human operated devices that are accessing the program...".  
Check out the software investment guide :

http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html

  In particular, I like the 400-employees-on-30-forklifts example (pg. 15 of the 
guide).  I would love to see an Oracle sales rep. explain that one to our CFO!

Jay

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/09/02 06:08AM >>>
Hi, 
found the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is
Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for
Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. 

Product  Named users Licence   Processor Licence
Oracle db(enterprise) 800  4   
Oracle db(standard)   300  15000
Oracle db(personal)   400  -- 

rgds
amar
http://amzone.netfirms.com 




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RE: Oracle pricing...

[Christopher Spence]

I believe they are only selling 9i now and you opt to use 8i from what I am
seeing.

What sucks is my 550MHzx4 Xeon NT development license went from $90,000 to
$160,000 with this new cheaper license scheme.  Yeah bs.

"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence 
Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax:(707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863
 



-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:23 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Has anyone else discovered this??  After poking around, I am also finding
$300 on store.oracle.com


--
Oracle8i Standard Edition used to be $160 per user for a perpetual license.
Oracle9i Standard Edition is $300 per user for a perpetual license.  I just
got a quote from my software vendor and he wants to charge me $270 per user
for an Oracle8i v8.1.7 on HPUX.  I can't seem to find the Oracle8i price
anymore on the Oracle Store web site.  If you have time and get a moment,
can you see if you can find it on the web site?  Reed, you're welcome to
search as well.
I sent a reply back to the software vendor for him to confirm that I
am being quoted a price for Oracle8i, not Oracle9i.  I'll let you know what
I hear.  Thanks.

--

Many thanks.

Chris
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RE: Oracle pricing

[Eric D. Pierce]

Sean,

We get our Oracle products from a 23(?) campus statewide educational
system site license. +/- U$A 10 million. 

The purchasing agreement is on the following administrative web site

http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/Bulletins/00-04/a990120.pdf

Lots of really gruesome regulatory/legal language, but if you dig 
through it, you get the basic costs, products, support, #users, etc.

(linked from: http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/Bulletins/00-04/00-04.pdf ,
http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/master.shtml#software , 
http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/master.shtml , 
http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/csu_bulletin.shtml , 
http://www.calstate.edu/BF  )


regards,
ep

ps, doesn't the amount of HUGE CR*P of HTML duplication,
untrimmed long trailers, etc. in the digest suck?!?!

--

>[via Oracle-L digest]
> From: "O'Neill, Sean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:02:03 +0200
> Subject: RE: Oracle pricing

> Someone mentioned a site licence in their post.  I did not know
> Oracle do site licences, a sales rep told me they didn't.  

...

>Sean :)
>
>Rookie Data Base Administrator
>Oracle 7.3.3, 8.0.5, 8.1.7 - NT, W2K
>[0%] OCP Oracle8i DBA
>[0%] OCP Oracle9i DBA
>  
>Organon (Ireland) Ltd.
>E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [subscribed: Digest Mode]

-- 
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-- 
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RE: Oracle pricing

[Kimberly Smith]

I am the one who mentioned a site license.  They really have to screw you
over good to get that.  When you have two equally big corporations going 
after you because of something done to screw you over and its extremely
provable
its amazing how they will bend.  Like I said before, we have it sweet.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Someone mentioned a site licence in their post.  I did not know Oracle do
site licences, a sales rep told me they didn't.  Is this still the case?.
My experience of local area sales folk is that they don't seem to be too
concerned about business.  They are so slllooo at responding to RFIs
etc.  Is there an independent source for checking out licence options?.  If
there are any Oracle certified partners out there in Ireland lurking about
contact me back channel to make yourself known to me, though I'm not
promising any business.  I don't know who you are yet 'cos I'm still waiting
for a list of you from Oracle!!!

As for the audit gig, what annoys me is that when we buy a licence we get
demands to pay invoice for same pronto but we don't get any confirmation of
the licence any other way.  It seems to be on a database somewhere or other
but I don't know if I should have a piece of paper for same with a specific
licence number, start date and expiriation date of licence, licence type,
support terms etc.

I can hear echos of team music to SHAFT... =:-0


Sean :)

Rookie Data Base Administrator
Oracle 7.3.3, 8.0.5, 8.1.7 - NT, W2K
[0%] OCP Oracle8i DBA
[0%] OCP Oracle9i DBA
  
Organon (Ireland) Ltd.
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [subscribed: Digest Mode]

Visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oracle-OCP-DBA

"Nobody loves me but my mother... and she could be jivin' too."  - BB King


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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Oracle pricing

[O'Neill, Sean]

Someone mentioned a site licence in their post.  I did not know Oracle do
site licences, a sales rep told me they didn't.  Is this still the case?.
My experience of local area sales folk is that they don't seem to be too
concerned about business.  They are so slllooo at responding to RFIs
etc.  Is there an independent source for checking out licence options?.  If
there are any Oracle certified partners out there in Ireland lurking about
contact me back channel to make yourself known to me, though I'm not
promising any business.  I don't know who you are yet 'cos I'm still waiting
for a list of you from Oracle!!!

As for the audit gig, what annoys me is that when we buy a licence we get
demands to pay invoice for same pronto but we don't get any confirmation of
the licence any other way.  It seems to be on a database somewhere or other
but I don't know if I should have a piece of paper for same with a specific
licence number, start date and expiriation date of licence, licence type,
support terms etc.

I can hear echos of team music to SHAFT... =:-0


Sean :)

Rookie Data Base Administrator
Oracle 7.3.3, 8.0.5, 8.1.7 - NT, W2K
[0%] OCP Oracle8i DBA
[0%] OCP Oracle9i DBA
  
Organon (Ireland) Ltd.
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [subscribed: Digest Mode]

Visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oracle-OCP-DBA

"Nobody loves me but my mother... and she could be jivin' too."  - BB King


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-- 
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RE: Oracle pricing

[Mohammad Rafiq]

Excellent..

MOHAMMAD RAFIQ

DITTO THAT! When I was interviewing for this new gig I referred the future
boss to a reseller because I knew they were in the market for a new license.
It saved them significant bucks so I responded, "See! I haven't even started
working for you and I've already saved you some big bucks... just think how
much you'll save if you hire me." ...And that's the rest of the story.

Steve Orr


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


And that 3rd quote must be from their authorised reseller, if any in your
area,  and let them fight to lower their quote. As it is slowing market, one

must take advantage of it. In my past experience, I was putting all hardware

vendors to compete including manufacturers and going for best deals like
lowest price of USA, delivery in Singapore and warranty in that country
where machine is installed.

So Liza, let them fight for business and save some of your company's money
and get some award for that, if you have good management.

MOHAMMAD RAFIQ



Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:25:29 -0800

That is a good thing :)
Now just get a third quote :)



"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?  Seems like
they are getting pretty cut throat.  I got one quote for $400,000, and a
second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.  WOW.
They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story
from different people.

Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Administrator
954-935-4117

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or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.




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RE: Oracle pricing

[Orr, Steve]

DITTO THAT! When I was interviewing for this new gig I referred the future
boss to a reseller because I knew they were in the market for a new license.
It saved them significant bucks so I responded, "See! I haven't even started
working for you and I've already saved you some big bucks... just think how
much you'll save if you hire me." ...And that's the rest of the story.

Steve Orr


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


And that 3rd quote must be from their authorised reseller, if any in your 
area,  and let them fight to lower their quote. As it is slowing market, one

must take advantage of it. In my past experience, I was putting all hardware

vendors to compete including manufacturers and going for best deals like 
lowest price of USA, delivery in Singapore and warranty in that country 
where machine is installed.

So Liza, let them fight for business and save some of your company's money 
and get some award for that, if you have good management.

MOHAMMAD RAFIQ



Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:25:29 -0800

That is a good thing :)
Now just get a third quote :)



"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?  Seems like
they are getting pretty cut throat.  I got one quote for $400,000, and a
second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.  WOW.
They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story
from different people.

Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Administrator
954-935-4117

The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and
may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access
to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If
you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and
may be unlawful.

The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any
virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the
message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and
other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss
or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.




_
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Author: Orr, Steve
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RE: Oracle pricing

[Mohammad Rafiq]

And that 3rd quote must be from their authorised reseller, if any in your 
area,  and let them fight to lower their quote. As it is slowing market, one 
must take advantage of it. In my past experience, I was putting all hardware 
vendors to compete including manufacturers and going for best deals like 
lowest price of USA, delivery in Singapore and warranty in that country 
where machine is installed.

So Liza, let them fight for business and save some of your company's money 
and get some award for that, if you have good management.

MOHAMMAD RAFIQ



Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:25:29 -0800

That is a good thing :)
Now just get a third quote :)



"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?  Seems like
they are getting pretty cut throat.  I got one quote for $400,000, and a
second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.  WOW.
They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story
from different people.

Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Administrator
954-935-4117

The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and
may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access
to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If
you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and
may be unlawful.

The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any
virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the
message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and
other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss
or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.




_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mohammad Rafiq
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RE: Oracle pricing

[Farnsworth, Dave]

They learned about the auditing of licenses from M$.

Dave

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:02 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Lisa,

I've not experienced that particular behavior from the Oracle sales
droids. 
But, we did have ours in yesterday (new droids wanting to put faces to
names)
and since Oracle's revenues are down they suggested that they might be
coming
around to perform an audit!  Now that I think is a heavy handed way of
pumping
up the revenue stream.  Guess I'd better learn DB2!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Koivu; Lisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   7/26/2001 7:47 AM

Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?  Seems like
they are getting pretty cut throat.  I got one quote for $400,000, and a
second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.  WOW.
They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story
from different people.

> Lisa Koivu
> Oracle Database Administrator
> 954-935-4117
> 
> The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and
> may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s)
> access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
> unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
> 
> The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any
> virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message
> and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
> reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts
> full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about
> viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not
> liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its
> attachments. 
> 
> 






Oracle pricing



Has anyone experienced Oracle sales
people
gouging each other?  Seems like they are getting pretty cut
throat.  I
got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that,
from
two different people.  WOW.    They are beginning to
sound
like the company I work for - different story from different
people.

Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Administrator
954-935-4117


The information in the electronic mail message
is
Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely
for
the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone
else
is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying,
distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is
prohibited and may be unlawful.

The sender believes that this E-mail and any
attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious
code
when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during
transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the
recipient
accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about
viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable
for
any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.





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RE: Oracle pricing

[Christopher Spence]

Title: Message



That 
is a good thing :)
Now 
just get a third quote :)
 
 
"Walking on water and developing software from a 
specification are easy if both are frozen." 
Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot 

  
  -Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 
  11:47 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  Oracle pricing
  Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people 
  gouging each other?  Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat.  
  I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, 
  from two different people.  WOW.    They are beginning to 
  sound like the company I work for - different story from different 
  people.
  Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 
  The information in the electronic mail message is 
  Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for 
  the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone 
  else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, 
  copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance 
  on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
  The sender believes that this E-mail and any 
  attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code 
  when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during 
  transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the 
  recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial 
  action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are 
  not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its 
  attachments. 

RE: Oracle pricing

[Van M. Etheridge]

Title: Oracle pricing



Yes I 
have. On the last set of quotes I got from Orance the price ranged from $175,000 
to $70,000 for the same set of products. It just depended on who I spoke 
with. I also think timing has something to do with it. Salesmen meeting quotas 
and the company reporting profit/loss.
 
 -Original 
Message-From: Koivu, Lisa 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Oracle 
pricing

  Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people 
  gouging each other?  Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat.  
  I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, 
  from two different people.  WOW.    They are beginning to 
  sound like the company I work for - different story from different 
  people.
  Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 
  The information in the electronic mail message is 
  Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for 
  the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone 
  else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, 
  copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance 
  on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
  The sender believes that this E-mail and any 
  attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code 
  when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during 
  transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the 
  recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial 
  action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are 
  not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its 
  attachments.