RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Very possible to do. It's a bit involved but it is documented in my Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery book and it will work for 8i. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Freeman Robert - IL INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
I have done it in 8.0.6.3 and one earlier version. As Robert says, it is a bit involved. I had help from Oracle Support when I had to do it. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 1:23 AM Indeed you can do this. It's a bit involved, but it's documented in my Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery Book, and it is supported in 8i. RF -Original Message- Hostetter Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository In your case, the recovery catalog makes it MUCH MUCH easier! :-) So, I'm not saying you are incorrect, only that nobody should ever think they are unrecoverable just because RMAN can not find a backup set record in the repository or control file. Even in the case you state, as long as you know which tape the backup is on, you can manually recover those backups using the dbms_backup_restore package within Oracle (which is available when the instance is started). Basically, as long as you have the media and it's not corrupted and the MML stuff is configured correctly, you can extract the backup sets from that media regardless of the presence or lack thereof of the control file or the recovery catalog. It's just going to be painful but far less painful than looking for a job because you couldn't recover your database. RF -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Johnston, TimSent: Monday, January 13, 2003 7:29 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I do have one scenario where you really have to use a recovery catalog... When attempting to backup a VLDB that usesread only tablespaces and extremely infrequent backups for most of the data (i.e. a large datawarehouse), a recovery catalog is very important... You just may not have the time to perform full backups of your multi terabyte database... In this case, you better hope that the backup of your read only tablespace from 15 months ago is still around... Since the CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP parameter only goes to 1 year, you may be stuck unless you have that data in a recovery catalog... Tim -Original Message-From: Freeman Robert - IL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:35 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; Actually, you can, it's just a manual process. This is documented in the RMAN book. Also, in 9i you can do automated backup/restore of control files of your database in RMAN without the recovery catalog, and you can manually recover a control file if that is required using dbms_backup_restore. Robert Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:46 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared "Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I di
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
on the international space station, God help you when you have to figure out their code. Perhaps you are the shell scripter expert, but the same problem exists, once you leave who is going to sit and figure out that cool code that you wrote? With RMAN, Oracle is the support for your backup and recovery product. Since it's an Oracle database to begin with it makes since to me to use their product. I think in 8i and particularly 9i, RMAN has become incredibly easy to use, feature rich and very robust. I mean, when all you really have to do to perform a hot backup on your database is to fire up rman and type in backup database and the whole shebang is taken care of... well, it just isn't going to get much easier. As for the hot backup/cold backup question about the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are === message truncated === __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
oh Lord, I hope not. The scripts aren't that perfect. Besides, that would get REALLY noisy, wouldn't it? I don't put comments in because I'm perfect, I put them in because of the exact opposite condition. Swiss-cheese memory, so if I don't comment what I've done, I have to reinvent the wheel and figure it out all over again And I learned, in the one management class I ever took, that if I ever want to be promoted, or move on to more fun stuff, I have to have made my job one that someone else can step into. I hated being indispensable --- Robert Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I expect the angels probably sing when your shell scripts are running Rachel. :-) RF -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm not saying RMAN should not be used... I wondered why a database was needed to store the information. It's obviously NOT needed or you couldn't use the controlfiles for the RMAN information. and for what it's worth, no matter how fancy I CAN write a script, I try to write it as plain vanilla as possible, with lots of comments about what I am doing at each step. I realize this sets me apart from the norm but who wants to be normal? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
And I learned, in the one management class I ever took, that if I ever want to be promoted, or move on to more fun stuff, I have to have made my job one that someone else can step into. You know, if more people realized that, then there would be fewer people complaining about not moving up in the world. RMAN is a beautiful thing... :-)) RF -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L oh Lord, I hope not. The scripts aren't that perfect. Besides, that would get REALLY noisy, wouldn't it? I don't put comments in because I'm perfect, I put them in because of the exact opposite condition. Swiss-cheese memory, so if I don't comment what I've done, I have to reinvent the wheel and figure it out all over again And I learned, in the one management class I ever took, that if I ever want to be promoted, or move on to more fun stuff, I have to have made my job one that someone else can step into. I hated being indispensable --- Robert Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I expect the angels probably sing when your shell scripts are running Rachel. :-) RF -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm not saying RMAN should not be used... I wondered why a database was needed to store the information. It's obviously NOT needed or you couldn't use the controlfiles for the RMAN information. and for what it's worth, no matter how fancy I CAN write a script, I try to write it as plain vanilla as possible, with lots of comments about what I am doing at each step. I realize this sets me apart from the norm but who wants to be normal? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Indeed you can do this. It's a bit involved, but it's documented in my Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery Book, and it is supported in 8i. RF -Original Message- Hostetter Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I do have one scenario where you really have to use a recovery catalog... When attempting to backup a VLDB that usesread only tablespaces and extremely infrequent backups for most of the data (i.e. a large datawarehouse), a recovery catalog is very important... You just may not have the time to perform full backups of your multi terabyte database... In this case, you better hope that the backup of your read only tablespace from 15 months ago is still around... Since the CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP parameter only goes to 1 year, you may be stuck unless you have that data in a recovery catalog... Tim -Original Message-From: Freeman Robert - IL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:35 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; Actually, you can, it's just a manual process. This is documented in the RMAN book. Also, in 9i you can do automated backup/restore of control files of your database in RMAN without the recovery catalog, and you can manually recover a control file if that is required using dbms_backup_restore. Robert Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:46 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared "Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Geez Tom, I didn't realize it was so simple. ;) On Friday 10 January 2003 11:04, Mercadante, Thomas F wrote: separate and simplify the issues. develop a bullet-proof backup and recovery plan for the Rman repository *first*. then develop plans for production databases. trying to do both at the same time is a fools-errand. waste of time. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Oh yes, yes, yes. You are correct. It *may* work, but it's not guaranteed to work because an RMAN (and OID) transaction can constitute multiple DB transactions in their respective repositories. When I saw that feature of OID, I did some investigating and felt that we would not be at significant risk of recovery failure given our environment. Of course, to be sure I also had planned in a full LDIF export immediately following the hotback. :) Thanks for the refresher, Jared! That memory must have been a weak buffalo culled from the herd by beer. :) Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Jesse, Rich; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
SQL from text files is possible via external tables in 9i, or via Perl and DBD::CSV ( if comma delimited ) possible, but not my favorite way to access data. :) Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 07:24 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I actually think RMAN is pretty simple. First, most of the MML vendors offer a product that allows you to monitor the tape read/write process if you are using MML... So that allows you to do the monitoring thing. The problem with shell scripts are numerous. First of all, the person who wrote it may be a much more advanced shell scripter than you are. Once they take that cool DBA job on the international space station, God help you when you have to figure out their code. Perhaps you are the shell scripter expert, but the same problem exists, once you leave who is going to sit and figure out that cool code that you wrote? With RMAN, Oracle is the support for your backup and recovery product. Since it's an Oracle database to begin with it makes since to me to use their product. I think in 8i and particularly 9i, RMAN has become incredibly easy to use, feature rich and very robust. I mean, when all you really have to do to perform a hot backup on your database is to fire up rman and type in backup database and the whole shebang is taken care of... well, it just isn't going to get much easier. As for the hot backup/cold backup question about the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are === message truncated === __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
robust. I mean, when all you really have to do to perform a hot backup on your database is to fire up rman and type in backup database and the whole shebang is taken care of... well, it just isn't going to get much easier. As for the hot backup/cold backup question about the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete
Re: RMAN Repository
Doesn't the same apply to database repository, when it's lost? Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:14 PM And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN Repository
9i Offers automated recovery of the control file. All you need to know is where you are making your control file backups to (tape or disk), and the DBID of the database you wish to recover the control file of. If you forget the DBID, not to worry because it's stored in the file name of the backup pieces that contain the control file so you can play around and find the DBID that way. 9i RMAN is much easier in this respect than earlier RMAN versions. Still, even if you loose your control file in 8i, it's not too hard to recover that control file as long as you know where your backup pieces are. You just need to mount the instance and use dbms_backup_restore to recover the control file from the backup set. It's perhaps not the most straight forward method of doing this, but it works. Shameless plug - This is all documented in Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery by Oracle Press. :-) RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Igor - Hopefully you won't lose your repository at the same time you lose all your production database controlfiles. However, if that is happens, hopefully you were outside the computer room at that moment. ;-) So, you should be able to recover your repository and/or take a fresh backup. I should point out that even if you use an RMAN repository, the recovery information is still stored in the control files, so you can still perform a control file recovery. But Jared is correct that it is much more difficult if you must try to recover the control file from the RMAN backup piece. That is why I separately back up the control file (binary backup) after the RMAN backup. I understand this is all much better in 9i. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't the same apply to database repository, when it's lost? Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:14 PM And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list
RE: RMAN Repository
Igor - Hopefully you won't lose your repository at the same time you lose all your production database controlfiles. However, if that is happens, hopefully you were outside the computer room at that moment. ;-) So, you should be able to recover your repository and/or take a fresh backup. I should point out that even if you use an RMAN repository, the recovery information is still stored in the control files, so you can still perform a control file recovery. But Jared is correct that it is much more difficult if you must try to recover the control file from the RMAN backup piece. That is why I separately back up the control file (binary backup) after the RMAN backup. I understand this is all much better in 9i. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't the same apply to database repository, when it's lost? Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:14 PM And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN Repository
In 9i Oracle can handle control file recoveries just fine without a repository if configured correctly. In 8i, you can actually recover the control file even without a repository but you have to use the dbms_backup_restore package to do so. I have not heard anything about the repository going away. I wonder how they would support RMAN scripting and enterprise backup and recovery reporting in this case. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't the same apply to database repository, when it's lost? Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:14 PM And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Freeman Robert - IL INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN Repository
One question, don't you have to have the database in no mount state to recover the controlfile in 8i? You do in 8.0.x. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:24 AM 9i Offers automated recovery of the control file. All you need to know is where you are making your control file backups to (tape or disk), and the DBID of the database you wish to recover the control file of. If you forget the DBID, not to worry because it's stored in the file name of the backup pieces that contain the control file so you can play around and find the DBID that way. 9i RMAN is much easier in this respect than earlier RMAN versions. Still, even if you loose your control file in 8i, it's not too hard to recover that control file as long as you know where your backup pieces are. You just need to mount the instance and use dbms_backup_restore to recover the control file from the backup set. It's perhaps not the most straight forward method of doing this, but it works. Shameless plug - This is all documented in Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery by Oracle Press. :-) RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Igor - Hopefully you won't lose your repository at the same time you lose all your production database controlfiles. However, if that is happens, hopefully you were outside the computer room at that moment. ;-) So, you should be able to recover your repository and/or take a fresh backup. I should point out that even if you use an RMAN repository, the recovery information is still stored in the control files, so you can still perform a control file recovery. But Jared is correct that it is much more difficult if you must try to recover the control file from the RMAN backup piece. That is why I separately back up the control file (binary backup) after the RMAN backup. I understand this is all much better in 9i. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't the same apply to database repository, when it's lost? Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:14 PM And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Gene, i consider it a good redundancy method for recovery. put the repository on a 24x7 machine, that way if you lose all of the controlfiles you can still easily restore/recover. my 2 cents worth. joe This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ORACLE- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I hadnt heard that the repository was going away. I did hear, however, at the IOUG meeting last year, that the reporting mechanisms were going to be significantly enhanced, putting it on par with the repository-based reporting. That came directly from one of the Oracle RMAN strategists, if I recall correctly. Brian -- | Brian McGraw /* DBA */ Infinity Insurance | | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Gene Sais Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. RF Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN Repository
Thanks Robert. I just checked your Oracle9i RMAN book and yes you do provide the steps to recover the control file from the RMAN backup. I can see the step I missed when I previously tried it myself. Thanks for mentioning that. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 9i Offers automated recovery of the control file. All you need to know is where you are making your control file backups to (tape or disk), and the DBID of the database you wish to recover the control file of. If you forget the DBID, not to worry because it's stored in the file name of the backup pieces that contain the control file so you can play around and find the DBID that way. 9i RMAN is much easier in this respect than earlier RMAN versions. Still, even if you loose your control file in 8i, it's not too hard to recover that control file as long as you know where your backup pieces are. You just need to mount the instance and use dbms_backup_restore to recover the control file from the backup set. It's perhaps not the most straight forward method of doing this, but it works. Shameless plug - This is all documented in Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery by Oracle Press. :-) RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Igor - Hopefully you won't lose your repository at the same time you lose all your production database controlfiles. However, if that is happens, hopefully you were outside the computer room at that moment. ;-) So, you should be able to recover your repository and/or take a fresh backup. I should point out that even if you use an RMAN repository, the recovery information is still stored in the control files, so you can still perform a control file recovery. But Jared is correct that it is much more difficult if you must try to recover the control file from the RMAN backup piece. That is why I separately back up the control file (binary backup) after the RMAN backup. I understand this is all much better in 9i. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't the same apply to database repository, when it's lost? Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:14 PM And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I find it useful for organizing and keeping track of my backups so that during recovery it is as simple as running pre-scripted queries to see what I have available - geez am I the only one who likes RMAN and doesn't think it makes things that difficult - really? Robert Freeman - what say you? -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; Actually, you can, it's just a manual process. This is documented in the RMAN book. Also, in 9i you can do automated backup/restore of control files of your database in RMAN without the recovery catalog, and you can manually recover a control file if that is required using dbms_backup_restore. Robert Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:46 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared "Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
RE: RMAN Repository
Actually for recovery of the control file, you have to be in nomount mode. RMAN will connect to a database as long as the instance is up. So, to recover from square one you need to get the instance runninng. In 9i, it's generally possible to start an instance without even a parameter file, which is nice. Then you can recover the SPFILE and the control file from the autobackup. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L One question, don't you have to have the database in no mount state to recover the controlfile in 8i? You do in 8.0.x. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:24 AM 9i Offers automated recovery of the control file. All you need to know is where you are making your control file backups to (tape or disk), and the DBID of the database you wish to recover the control file of. If you forget the DBID, not to worry because it's stored in the file name of the backup pieces that contain the control file so you can play around and find the DBID that way. 9i RMAN is much easier in this respect than earlier RMAN versions. Still, even if you loose your control file in 8i, it's not too hard to recover that control file as long as you know where your backup pieces are. You just need to mount the instance and use dbms_backup_restore to recover the control file from the backup set. It's perhaps not the most straight forward method of doing this, but it works. Shameless plug - This is all documented in Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery by Oracle Press. :-) RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Igor - Hopefully you won't lose your repository at the same time you lose all your production database controlfiles. However, if that is happens, hopefully you were outside the computer room at that moment. ;-) So, you should be able to recover your repository and/or take a fresh backup. I should point out that even if you use an RMAN repository, the recovery information is still stored in the control files, so you can still perform a control file recovery. But Jared is correct that it is much more difficult if you must try to recover the control file from the RMAN backup piece. That is why I separately back up the control file (binary backup) after the RMAN backup. I understand this is all much better in 9i. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't the same apply to database repository, when it's lost? Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:14 PM And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there aregreat reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up?Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LInteresting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If therepository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it.Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears muchsimpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, whatare the real benefits to using a repository?Thanks,GenePS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.nethttp://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comhttp://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared "Orr, Steve" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared "Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Paula, i like it and the respository, cause its just my anal- retentiveness coming out about having 2 places to easily be able to recover(the repository and control file). joe This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I find it useful for organizing and keeping track of my backups so that during recovery it is as simple as running pre-scripted queries to see what I have available - geez am I the only one who likes RMAN and doesn't think it makes things that difficult - really? Robert Freeman - what say you? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ORACLE- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
I like using a repository because I hate to document. Every is there for the asking. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:49 PM Paula, i like it and the respository, cause its just my anal- retentiveness coming out about having 2 places to easily be able to recover(the repository and control file). joe This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I find it useful for organizing and keeping track of my backups so that during recovery it is as simple as running pre-scripted queries to see what I have available - geez am I the only one who likes RMAN and doesn't think it makes things that difficult - really? Robert Freeman - what say you? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ORACLE- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Robert - Thank you! I will go with the KISS principle anytime. Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:45AM I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. RF Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Gene - I would think your site would be just what the repository was designed for. You could use a single repository for all 25 databases. Then each day you could execute a simple query and receive an exception report that tells you any backup vulnerabilities for any of the 25 systems. Without the repository you'd have to spend a lot of your time either typing commands each day or creating programs to perform what RMAN offers built in. As to the rumors that Oracle is going to soon abandon the RMAN repository, I agree with Robert (if I recall correctly). How could they? Large Oracle customers are heavily committed to the repository, and Oracle usually doesn't do anything that stupid. But people are whining about why they are forced to use the repository, so Oracle is emphasizing that you can get most of the benefits without a repository. But in your situation, I would strongly consider the repository. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there are great reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
You can make up a universal script that logs into each an gets the appropriate info. Just takes a little thinking -its a little more time but can be done. Brian -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - I would think your site would be just what the repository was designed for. You could use a single repository for all 25 databases. Then each day you could execute a simple query and receive an exception report that tells you any backup vulnerabilities for any of the 25 systems. Without the repository you'd have to spend a lot of your time either typing commands each day or creating programs to perform what RMAN offers built in. As to the rumors that Oracle is going to soon abandon the RMAN repository, I agree with Robert (if I recall correctly). How could they? Large Oracle customers are heavily committed to the repository, and Oracle usually doesn't do anything that stupid. But people are whining about why they are forced to use the repository, so Oracle is emphasizing that you can get most of the benefits without a repository. But in your situation, I would strongly consider the repository. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there are great reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University
RE : RMAN Repository
Is it an old fashioned backup (non-rman)? I export our rman repository and ftp the .dmp file to another server. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 03:30PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Brian - Not disputing that at all. I even enjoy it when I had some spare time to sit down and do just that. But why create and maintain something when Oracle offers it built-in. I can even envision a manager saying I paid you for WHAT?? We'll consider that time as counting against your vacation. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:19 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You can make up a universal script that logs into each an gets the appropriate info. Just takes a little thinking -its a little more time but can be done. Brian -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - I would think your site would be just what the repository was designed for. You could use a single repository for all 25 databases. Then each day you could execute a simple query and receive an exception report that tells you any backup vulnerabilities for any of the 25 systems. Without the repository you'd have to spend a lot of your time either typing commands each day or creating programs to perform what RMAN offers built in. As to the rumors that Oracle is going to soon abandon the RMAN repository, I agree with Robert (if I recall correctly). How could they? Large Oracle customers are heavily committed to the repository, and Oracle usually doesn't do anything that stupid. But people are whining about why they are forced to use the repository, so Oracle is emphasizing that you can get most of the benefits without a repository. But in your situation, I would strongly consider the repository. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there are great reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Not having used RMAN since it's inception, I'm a little confused. Why couldn't you backup the DB hot, provided it wasn't using RMAN or at least that repository? Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE the non-database solution, Oracle has already done that, it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who wrote the book on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. Use of the RMAN repository WAS strongly recommended by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that truism no longer holds. You can see this transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the 7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to recover to and does it have access to the backup media? IMHO, :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository,er a repositorybut anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it'sa non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a dailyASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior "incarnation" when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later.To do this I created another database on another server, did thePITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITRand tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr -Original Message-From: Spears, Brian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:54 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I agree Steve, and thanks for the info. Do you have any procedures to cover backup logic holes if you have to rebuild the controlfile for some reason (Ie.. maximum files reached etc) Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers or ... have procedure to account for that? Brian -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:07 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE the "non-database solution," Oracle has already done that, it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who "wrote the book" on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, "I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good." Use of the RMAN repository WAS "strongly recommended" by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that "truism" no longer holds. You can see this transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the 7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, "Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to recover to and does it have access to the backup media?" IMHO, :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and serve
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Never heard of the q29_6 parameter. :-) Looks like excess glue spilled during a cut and paste operation. -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Brian - You may want to be aware of the following parameter: q29_6There are several new features that are present in the Oracle8 control file, so that it is significantly changed from and larger than the Oracle7 control file. The Oracle8 control file stores information that is of use to RMAN. Some of this information is recycled, while other information is permanent. A new parameter called CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME allows the DBA to specify the period of time after which data in recyclable portions of the control file expire so that the space in the control file that the data occupied can be reused. If more of this RMAN information needs to be stored, and the old information has not expired, then the control file will expand to accommodate the new data as well as the old. The value for CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME is specified as an integer, representing the number of days recyclable data will be stored before it expires. When this parameter is set to 0, the control file will not expand, allowing Oracle to expire the recyclable data as needed, to make room for new data. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I agree Steve, and thanks for the info. Do you have any procedures to cover backup logic holes if you have to rebuild the controlfile for some reason (Ie.. maximum files reached etc) Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers or ... have procedure to account for that? Brian -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE the non-database solution, Oracle has already done that, it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who wrote the book on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. Use of the RMAN repository WAS strongly recommended by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that truism no longer holds. You can see this transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the 7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to recover to and does it have access to the backup media? IMHO, :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I agree Steve, and thanks for the info. Do you have any procedures to cover backup logic holes if you have to rebuild the controlfile for some reason (Ie.. maximum files reached etc) Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers or ... have procedure to account for that? Brian -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:07 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE the "non-database solution," Oracle has already done that, it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who "wrote the book" on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, "I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good." Use of the RMAN repository WAS "strongly recommended" by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that "truism" no longer holds. You can see this transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the 7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, "Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to recover to and does it have access to the backup media?" IMHO, :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared "Orr, Steve" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concern
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
The database containing RMAN repository does not need to be up 100%, only when the backup is going on restoring. Therefore, in many sites, DBAs can actually shutdown the database and take cold backup, just for convenience sake, if not anything else. Jared wanted to know if anybody used hot backup for the RMAN repository. Arup Nanda - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:00 PM Not having used RMAN since it's inception, I'm a little confused. Why couldn't you backup the DB hot, provided it wasn't using RMAN or at least that repository? Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Arup Nanda INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE : RMAN Repository
I shutdown the database and backup the oracle directories. Jared Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 12:54 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Is it an old fashioned backup (non-rman)? I export our rman repository and ftp the .dmp file to another server. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 03:30PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN Repository
Joe - I think it is a matter of emphasis. I think you will always have a choice between the control file and the repository. In Oracle8i they emphasized the repository. In Oracle9i they are pointing out that the control file is also appropriate for some sites. I think this is good because it allows RMAN to be flexibly applied to a wide variety of sites. I could be wrong, but I often see a slight change in emphasis blown up into they're dropping 'XXX . . . '. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L putting on a flame retardant suit As long as they aint skinny, looks are good :) Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that they were both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored in math I'm about to start a flame war here, I just know it. WHY does it matter to mention the attractiveness of the female DBAs? When I talk about someone I work with, I don't comment on how attractive he or she is. I talk about whether or not the person can do the work and I can learn from him or her. It's the subtle things that promote the attitude. --- Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had the pleasure of working with 2 female DBA's at my company. I have to say they were both the best DBA's the company has had. Both were very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that they were both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored in mathamatics and had a 4 point average. But I would not concider her a geek at all. They are both always willing to go the extra mile when needed and work what ever hours are required. I probebly wouldn't be here if it weren't for them. It would be too boring. R. Smith -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Cherie, Rachel - Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. Brian - I think you are correct that kids today get very little encouragement to study hard subjects like sciences. I find this ironic given the fact that we have an incredibly technological society. I think this is a cumulative product of our society. Parents don't always encourage their children, teachers feel they are talking to an unreceptive audience (and usually don't have much exposure to technical careers themselves), and our popular culture ridicules the idea of maturity in general. But this is more of a concern for girls as they are making decisions about their future. The reason is role models. Often just one prominent member of a profession will encourage many young people to consider that field. Now when a young woman in the computer field is considering becoming an Oracle DBA, a quick scan of the bookshelves turns up Rachel's name. So hear that Rachel -- you're a role model, so you must write more books! -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Just asking .. I'm told that the number of Americans (by which I mean kids born in the States) entering technical fields of all types is declining. Could the decline of the number of women in IT entering IT be a part of that trend? For that matter, I wasn't really called on much in school (and glad for it, I wasn't usually paying attention), nor did my teachers encourage me that I can recall for anything in particular. Yet, here I am, earning a living doing computer stuff. If 'girls' (or boys, see para 1) aren't encouraged in technical matters, perhaps it's a problem beyond the scope of an overworked and underpaid teachers? Please note, I speak as a father of six and the husband of an (former) educator. ~brian -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think that within the population of women in IT, the number of female Oracle DBAs is increasing. However, in general, the number of women entering IT is decreasing. That is, the number of women who are encouraged to become DBAs or developers or network admins or sys admins is decreasing. I've noticed (I have a friend with a 13 year old son and a 16 year old daughter) that the schools are not encouraging girls to go into science or math. There have been studies done that show that teachers in those fields tend to call on the girls in the class less and spend less time helping them understand the subjects. My opinion only Rachel --- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently this list had a
RE : RMAN Repository
Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE : RMAN Repository
And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
But if you must apply archive logs that are newer than the control file, it is an atypical recovery. I can't recall how to do that at the moment. This makes an integral piece of the database also an integral piece of what should be an external recovery mechanism. Makes about as much sense as putting the RMAN repository on the same server as your production database. Jared Joe Testa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 02:19 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Good point, Jared. An externally available repository is what is needed in the RMAN to make it complete; but the use of a full scale Oracle database for the repository makes it sort of complex. The repository then has to be protected at all costs. I generally use a multimaster replication setup, but use only one as a master. If, only if, Oracle had given us the ability to place a much simple setup for a repository, it would have been excellent. A repository does not contan that much of information anyway and certainly does not need the features like transaction processing, locking, etc. Case in point - Veritas backup needs a simple text file for its repository; BrightStor uses Ingres (a relational database). In case of a disaster, we have to restore the repository first in case of BrightStor (takes time) and only then the restore can start. In case of Veritas, the recovery of the repository is as simple as opening up in vi and typing the lines. Guess which one is simpler? Just a thought. Arup Nanda From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:53:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc8-f34.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:18:32 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id PAA54658;Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052AD42; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:53:26 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 23:18:32.0856 (UTC) FILETIME=[43053180:01C2B76C] But if you must apply archive logs that are newer than the control file, it is an atypical recovery. I can't recall how to do that at the moment. This makes an integral piece of the database also an integral piece of what should be an external recovery mechanism. Makes about as much sense as putting the RMAN repository on the same server as your production database. Jared Joe Testa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 02:19 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
RE: RMAN Repository vs. Controlfiles
Thanks Bruce, So it looks like the only feature that does not have an alternative solution is the stored scripts. You can backup the controlfile and keep the logs to cover everything else. -Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 5:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Steve, From the 817 documentation on RMAN: Storage of the RMAN Repository Exclusively in the Control File Because most information in the recovery catalog is also available in the target database's control file, RMAN supports an operational mode in which it uses the target database control file instead of a recovery catalog. This mode is especially appropriate for small databases where installation and administration of another database for the sole purpose of maintaining the recovery catalog is burdensome. Oracle does not support the following features in this operational mode: Stored scripts Restore and recovery when the control file is lost or damaged Types of Records in the Control File When you do not use a recovery catalog, the control file is the exclusive source of information about backups and copies as well as other relevant information. The control file contains two types of records: circular reuse records and non-circular reuse records. Circular Reuse Records Circular reuse records contain non-critical information that is eligible to be overwritten if the need arises. These records contain information that is continually generated by the database. Some examples of information circular reuse records include: Log history Archived redo logs Backups Offline ranges for datafiles Circular re-use records are arranged in a logical ring. When all available record slots are full, Oracle either expands the control file to make room for a new records or overwrites the oldest record. The CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME initialization parameter specifies the minimum age in days of a record before it can be reused. See Also: Monitoring the Overwriting of Control File Records to learn how to manage Oracle's treatment of circular-reuse records. Non-Circular Reuse Records Non-circular reuse records contain critical information that does not change often and cannot be overwritten. Some examples of information in circular reuse records include: Datafiles Online redo logs Redo threads Recovery Without a Catalog To restore and recover your database without using a recovery catalog, Oracle recommends that you: Use a minimum of two multiplexed or mirrored control files, each on separate disks. Keep excellent records of which files were backed up, the date they were backed up, and the names of the backup pieces that each file was written to (see Chapter 4, Generating Lists and Reports with Recovery Manager). Keep all Recovery Manager backup logs. WARNING: It is difficult to restore and recover if you lose your control files and do not use a recovery catalog. The only way to restore and recover when you have lost all control files and need to restore and recover datafiles is to call Oracle Support Services. Support will need to know: The current schema of the database. Which files were backed up. When the files were backed up. The names of the backup pieces containing the files. See Also: Understanding Catalog-Only Command Restrictions for a complete list of commands that are disabled unless you use a recovery catalog. Regards, Bruce -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2001 2:02 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L With Oracle 8.0 there was RMAN functionality that you could only get by having a repository in a database. But with Oracle 8.1 it seems that you get all the functionality you need with controlfiles. What functionality do you lose by using RMAN with controlfiles? Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You can just use the controlfile so you don't have to setup a database repository. Here's a clip from page 2-8 of the User's Guide: When you use a control file as the RMAN repository, RMAN still functions very effectively. If you choose not to use a recovery catalog, follow the guidelines in Managing the RMAN Repository Without a Recovery Catalog on page 3-45. Specifically, make sure you understand which commands require a catalog, and develop a strategy for backing up the repository. You can configure the amount of history kept in you controlfiles with the following init.ora entry: # Keep 14 days of history in the control file for the RMAN backups... CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME = 14 Of course, make sure you backup the controlfiles. :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 9:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list