RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Miller, Jay]

I'll chime in with another story of a well handled downsizing from back in
the mid-90s.  When I was at Showtime we were told the previous week that
layoffs would be announced the the following week.  On Monday we were told
it would be on Tuesday.
On Tuesday (humorously, 90% of the employees came in wearing black with no
prior arrangement) everyone who was to be laid off got a phone call.  We
were then given an exit interview with

1) The SVP of our department
2) A human resources person who gave us the information on severance and
applying for unemployment
3) A representative of the outplacement firm that would be providing career
and job hunt counseling for all downsized employees.

I was happy enough with my treatment that I came in for a few days after
that just to help my former boss (she had nothing to do with the layoffs)
with handing over everything I was working on and explaining the status of
my projects.  She resigned a few weeks later (I heard from various employees
that most people were working till 9pm every night trying to get everything
done with the smaller staff) and started her own business.
I took my severance and unemployment, worked some temporary jobs and went to
Columbia to do a career shift and study Oracle.

All in all, one of the best things that ever happened to me :).

Jay Miller



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 6:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I went through several major cuts when I worked at Citibank. The first one 
was the one best handled... by the time anyone was told about it, it was "if

you are here listening to me, you are NOT one of the ones let go"

Worst was when we knew how many would be let go... and knew that they had 
let go one less than that number... and there was one person out on 
vacation. And they didn't catch him at the door. That was awkward to say the

least


>From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 08:20:27 -0800
>
>Man, I remember the day when there were about 60 IT staff here.
>Now, I believe its under 20 or will be very shortly.  It was a
>tough week here last week.  We had to match what our client was
>letting go so we did that no problem.  Pretty much everyone is
>off to another project from us.  But to come in every morning and
>see the Fujitsu HR department catching people at the door before
>going into the Fab to give them their walking papers was tough.
>Its the first place I have worked at that has gone through that
>(while I was there).  I believe some upper management will get
>their papers this week.
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:05 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>if 40 is small, is 16 microscopic? (and of that 16, 5 are consultants)
>
>
> >From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800
> >
> >
> >Just to add to my previous comment:
> >
> >I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.
> >
> >The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
> >I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
> >un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
> >DBA in database related matters.
> >
> >Not a duhveloper in the bunch.
> >
> >Ya gotta love it!
> >
> >Jared
> >
> >On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> > > Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
> > >
> > > Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> > > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> > > so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
> > >
> > > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> > > but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
> > >
> > > Jared
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Thomas, Kevin"
> > > recipients
> >of
> > > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> > > Sent by:Subject: RE: !! 
>Keeping
> >the
> > > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> > > Please re

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[JOE TESTA]

when i was offered to bail out of the military in '92, it worked that 
way.
 
Most of the people who had a skill set and could make it in private 
industry, took the offer and left.
 
I didnt do too bad, 11 years in bail out and a 35K check :)
 
if enough people didnt take the money, the later people got nothing.
 
joe
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/01 12:17PM 
>>>Here they tapped people on the shoulder from behind. Noone knew 
how manywere being let go and how long the process would take. You just 
turnedaround quickly whenever you heard footsteps. I thought the tappers 
shouldhave been wearing a black cloak and hood and tap you with a staff. 
After theinitial layoffs, the rest of the staff was either asked to stay for 
3months, 6 months, or 'we want you here for the future'. Of course the 3 
and6 month people were given incentives to stay. The ones they really 
wantedwere offered no additional incentives. Go 
figure.Henry-Original Message-Sent: Monday, 
September 03, 2001 6:30 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LI went through several major cuts when I worked at Citibank. 
The first one was the one best handled... by the time anyone was told about 
it, it was "ifyou are here listening to me, you are NOT one of the ones 
let go"Worst was when we knew how many would be let go... and knew that 
they had let go one less than that number... and there was one person out on 
vacation. And they didn't catch him at the door. That was awkward to say 
theleast>From: Kimberly Smith 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list 
alive>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 08:20:27 -0800>>Man, I 
remember the day when there were about 60 IT staff here.>Now, I believe 
its under 20 or will be very shortly.  It was a>tough week here last 
week.  We had to match what our client was>letting go so we did that 
no problem.  Pretty much everyone is>off to another project from 
us.  But to come in every morning and>see the Fujitsu HR department 
catching people at the door before>going into the Fab to give them their 
walking papers was tough.>Its the first place I have worked at that has 
gone through that>(while I was there).  I believe some upper 
management will get>their papers this week.>>-Original 
Message->Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:05 PM>To: 
Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L>>>if 40 is small, is 
16 microscopic? (and of that 16, 5 are consultants)>>> 
>From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Reply-To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list 
alive> >Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800> >> 
>> >Just to add to my previous comment:> >> 
>I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.> 
>> >The weak do not survive in this environment.  The 
developers> >I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard 
working and> >un-egotistical.  They are even will to take 
direction from the> >DBA in database related matters.> 
>> >Not a duhveloper in the bunch.> >> >Ya 
gotta love it!> >> >Jared> >> >On 
Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:> > > Um, Kevin, if the 
shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)> > >> > 
> Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I 
know> > > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers 
require> > > so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  
:)> > >> > > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine 
writing apps, thank you,> > > but we choose a path that requires 
less 'direction' from users.  ;)> > >> > > 
Jared> > >> > >> > >> > 
>> > >> > 
> 
"Thomas, Kevin"> > 
> 
>recipients> >of> 
> > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
anais.com>  
cc:> > 
> 
Sent 
by:    
Subject: RE: !! >Keeping> >the> 
> > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > 
>> > 
> 
08/30/01 08:26 AM> > 
> 
Please respond to> > 
> 
ORACLE-L> > >> > >> > >> > 
>> > >> > >> > > I have to say I 
resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority> > > 
couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie> 
>(and> > > we> > > all are), I find this list 
invaluable for getting a

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Henry Poras]

Here they tapped people on the shoulder from behind. Noone knew how many
were being let go and how long the process would take. You just turned
around quickly whenever you heard footsteps. I thought the tappers should
have been wearing a black cloak and hood and tap you with a staff. After the
initial layoffs, the rest of the staff was either asked to stay for 3
months, 6 months, or 'we want you here for the future'. Of course the 3 and
6 month people were given incentives to stay. The ones they really wanted
were offered no additional incentives. Go figure.

Henry

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 6:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I went through several major cuts when I worked at Citibank. The first one 
was the one best handled... by the time anyone was told about it, it was "if

you are here listening to me, you are NOT one of the ones let go"

Worst was when we knew how many would be let go... and knew that they had 
let go one less than that number... and there was one person out on 
vacation. And they didn't catch him at the door. That was awkward to say the

least


>From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 08:20:27 -0800
>
>Man, I remember the day when there were about 60 IT staff here.
>Now, I believe its under 20 or will be very shortly.  It was a
>tough week here last week.  We had to match what our client was
>letting go so we did that no problem.  Pretty much everyone is
>off to another project from us.  But to come in every morning and
>see the Fujitsu HR department catching people at the door before
>going into the Fab to give them their walking papers was tough.
>Its the first place I have worked at that has gone through that
>(while I was there).  I believe some upper management will get
>their papers this week.
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:05 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>if 40 is small, is 16 microscopic? (and of that 16, 5 are consultants)
>
>
> >From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800
> >
> >
> >Just to add to my previous comment:
> >
> >I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.
> >
> >The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
> >I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
> >un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
> >DBA in database related matters.
> >
> >Not a duhveloper in the bunch.
> >
> >Ya gotta love it!
> >
> >Jared
> >
> >On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> > > Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
> > >
> > > Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> > > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> > > so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
> > >
> > > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> > > but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
> > >
> > > Jared
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Thomas, Kevin"
> > > recipients
> >of
> > > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> > > Sent by:Subject: RE: !! 
>Keeping
> >the
> > > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> > > Please respond to
> > > ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> > > couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie
> >(and
> > > we
> > > all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide 
>range
>
> >of
> > > topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call 
>you
> > > guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> > > application if your lives depended on it...
> > >
> > > (blue touch-paper lit, retire a 

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Deepak Thapliyal]

someties i think life sucks .. screw oracle and 9i ..
give me some nice vacation time here .. i need a break
;) .. like most of ya'll in the list

enjoy
deepak

--- Steven Hovington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> That is disgraceful.  Here when people were let go
> they
> were at least treated properly, given good packages
> (over and
> above what was legally required), and the services
> of a 
> careers counciller to help them prepare their cv,
> brush up on 
> interview techniques & contact reqruitement agencies
> etc.  Even 
> if they were pissed at being out of a job, they had
> no complaints 
> as to how the company treated them.
> 
> 
> Steven H.
> 
> -Original Message-
> McDonald
> Sent: 03 September 2001 18:25
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Time to chip in my horror story (and why I'll never
> do
> permie again).  Company in OZ decided to cut down
> numbers.  Bosses walked around with security guards
> into each persons office and tell them they have 5
> minutes to leave to premises and give them a ticket
> which has a 15minute after-hours timeslot in which
> they will have a supervised cleanout of their
> desk/office etc.
> 
> They were marched down the lift and out into the
> street.  I only knew this because the girl that gave
> me a lift to work phoned me from home and said
> "sorry,
> can't take you home, my job is gone"
> 
> So - if you ever get a chance to work for BHP in
> Australia  :-(
> 
> Cheers
> Connor
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Steven Hovington
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).


__
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Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Deepak Thapliyal
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rachel Carmichael]

I went through several major cuts when I worked at Citibank. The first one 
was the one best handled... by the time anyone was told about it, it was "if 
you are here listening to me, you are NOT one of the ones let go"

Worst was when we knew how many would be let go... and knew that they had 
let go one less than that number... and there was one person out on 
vacation. And they didn't catch him at the door. That was awkward to say the 
least


>From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 08:20:27 -0800
>
>Man, I remember the day when there were about 60 IT staff here.
>Now, I believe its under 20 or will be very shortly.  It was a
>tough week here last week.  We had to match what our client was
>letting go so we did that no problem.  Pretty much everyone is
>off to another project from us.  But to come in every morning and
>see the Fujitsu HR department catching people at the door before
>going into the Fab to give them their walking papers was tough.
>Its the first place I have worked at that has gone through that
>(while I was there).  I believe some upper management will get
>their papers this week.
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:05 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>if 40 is small, is 16 microscopic? (and of that 16, 5 are consultants)
>
>
> >From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800
> >
> >
> >Just to add to my previous comment:
> >
> >I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.
> >
> >The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
> >I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
> >un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
> >DBA in database related matters.
> >
> >Not a duhveloper in the bunch.
> >
> >Ya gotta love it!
> >
> >Jared
> >
> >On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> > > Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
> > >
> > > Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> > > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> > > so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
> > >
> > > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> > > but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
> > >
> > > Jared
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Thomas, Kevin"
> > > recipients
> >of
> > > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> > > Sent by:Subject: RE: !! 
>Keeping
> >the
> > > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> > > Please respond to
> > > ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> > > couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie
> >(and
> > > we
> > > all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide 
>range
>
> >of
> > > topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call 
>you
> > > guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> > > application if your lives depended on it...
> > >
> > > (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit,
> >and
> > > wait for fireworks)
> > >
> > >
> > > "hit any user to continue"
> > > __
> > >
> > > Kevin Thomas
> > > Technical Analyst
> > > Deregulation Services
> > > Calanais Ltd.
> > > (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> > > Tel: 0141 568 2377
> > > Fax: 0141 568 2366
> > > http://www.calanais.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > &g

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Steven Hovington]

That is disgraceful.  Here when people were let go they
were at least treated properly, given good packages (over and
above what was legally required), and the services of a 
careers counciller to help them prepare their cv, brush up on 
interview techniques & contact reqruitement agencies etc.  Even 
if they were pissed at being out of a job, they had no complaints 
as to how the company treated them.


Steven H.

-Original Message-
McDonald
Sent: 03 September 2001 18:25
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Time to chip in my horror story (and why I'll never do
permie again).  Company in OZ decided to cut down
numbers.  Bosses walked around with security guards
into each persons office and tell them they have 5
minutes to leave to premises and give them a ticket
which has a 15minute after-hours timeslot in which
they will have a supervised cleanout of their
desk/office etc.

They were marched down the lift and out into the
street.  I only knew this because the girl that gave
me a lift to work phoned me from home and said "sorry,
can't take you home, my job is gone"

So - if you ever get a chance to work for BHP in
Australia  :-(

Cheers
Connor


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Steven Hovington
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Connor McDonald]

Time to chip in my horror story (and why I'll never do
permie again).  Company in OZ decided to cut down
numbers.  Bosses walked around with security guards
into each persons office and tell them they have 5
minutes to leave to premises and give them a ticket
which has a 15minute after-hours timeslot in which
they will have a supervised cleanout of their
desk/office etc.

They were marched down the lift and out into the
street.  I only knew this because the girl that gave
me a lift to work phoned me from home and said "sorry,
can't take you home, my job is gone"

So - if you ever get a chance to work for BHP in
Australia  :-(

Cheers
Connor

 --- Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: > Man, I remember the day when there were about
60 IT
> staff here.
> Now, I believe its under 20 or will be very shortly.
>  It was a 
> tough week here last week.  We had to match what our
> client was
> letting go so we did that no problem.  Pretty much
> everyone is
> off to another project from us.  But to come in
> every morning and
> see the Fujitsu HR department catching people at the
> door before
> going into the Fab to give them their walking papers
> was tough.
> Its the first place I have worked at that has gone
> through that
> (while I was there).  I believe some upper
> management will get
> their papers this week.
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:05 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> if 40 is small, is 16 microscopic? (and of that 16,
> 5 are consultants)
> 
> 
> >From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800
> >
> >
> >Just to add to my previous comment:
> >
> >I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS
> shop.
> >
> >The weak do not survive in this environment.  The
> developers
> >I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard
> working and
> >un-egotistical.  They are even will to take
> direction from the
> >DBA in database related matters.
> >
> >Not a duhveloper in the bunch.
> >
> >Ya gotta love it!
> >
> >Jared
> >
> >On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> > > Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't
> wear it.  :)
> > >
> > > Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact,
> most of the ones I know
> > > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers
> require
> > > so much attention that it kind of wears on you. 
> :)
> > >
> > > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing
> apps, thank you,
> > > but we choose a path that requires less
> 'direction' from users.  ;)
> > >
> > > Jared
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Thomas, Kevin"
> > > Multiple recipients 
> >of
> > > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com> 
> cc:
> > > Sent by:   
> Subject: RE: !! Keeping 
> >the
> > > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> > > Please respond to
> > > ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to say I resent being called a
> duhveloper, granted the majority
> > > couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of
> SQL, but as a techie 
> >(and
> > > we
> > > all are), I find this list invaluable for
> getting advice on a wide range
> 
> >of
> > > topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or
> tuned...I don't call you
> > > guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs?
> couldn't write a decent
> > > application if your lives depended on it...
> > >
> > > (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not
> re-approach once lit, 
> >and
> > > wait for fireworks)
> > >
> > >
> > > "hit any user to continue"
> > > ______
> > >
> > > Kevin Thomas
> > > Technical Analyst
> > > Deregulation Services
> > > Calanais Ltd.
> > > (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> > > Tel: 0141 568 2377
> > > Fax: 0141 568 2366
> > > http://www.calanais.com
&g

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Kimberly Smith]

Man, I remember the day when there were about 60 IT staff here.
Now, I believe its under 20 or will be very shortly.  It was a 
tough week here last week.  We had to match what our client was
letting go so we did that no problem.  Pretty much everyone is
off to another project from us.  But to come in every morning and
see the Fujitsu HR department catching people at the door before
going into the Fab to give them their walking papers was tough.
Its the first place I have worked at that has gone through that
(while I was there).  I believe some upper management will get
their papers this week.

-Original Message-
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:05 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


if 40 is small, is 16 microscopic? (and of that 16, 5 are consultants)


>From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800
>
>
>Just to add to my previous comment:
>
>I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.
>
>The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
>I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
>un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
>DBA in database related matters.
>
>Not a duhveloper in the bunch.
>
>Ya gotta love it!
>
>Jared
>
>On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> > Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
> >
> > Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> > so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
> >
> > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> > but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
> >
> > Jared
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         "Thomas, Kevin"
> > of
> > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> > Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping 
>the
> > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> > Please respond to
> > ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> > couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie 
>(and
> > we
> > all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range

>of
> > topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> > guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> > application if your lives depended on it...
> >
> > (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, 
>and
> > wait for fireworks)
> >
> >
> > "hit any user to continue"
> > __
> >
> > Kevin Thomas
> > Technical Analyst
> > Deregulation Services
> > Calanais Ltd.
> > (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> > Tel: 0141 568 2377
> > Fax: 0141 568 2366
> > http://www.calanais.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> > no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers 
>who
> >
> > make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen 
>when
> > we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> > >
> > >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> > >
> > >: )
> > >
> > >Patrice Boivin
> > >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> > >
> > >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> > >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> > >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> > >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> > >
> > >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL 

Re: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rachel Carmichael]

if 40 is small, is 16 microscopic? (and of that 16, 5 are consultants)


>From: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:35:23 -0800
>
>
>Just to add to my previous comment:
>
>I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.
>
>The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
>I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
>un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
>DBA in database related matters.
>
>Not a duhveloper in the bunch.
>
>Ya gotta love it!
>
>Jared
>
>On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> > Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
> >
> > Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> > are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> > so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
> >
> > And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> > but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
> >
> > Jared
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         "Thomas, Kevin"
> > of
> > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>  cc:
> > Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping 
>the
> > list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> > Please respond to
> > ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> > couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie 
>(and
> > we
> > all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range 
>of
> > topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> > guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> > application if your lives depended on it...
> >
> > (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, 
>and
> > wait for fireworks)
> >
> >
> > "hit any user to continue"
> > __
> >
> > Kevin Thomas
> > Technical Analyst
> > Deregulation Services
> > Calanais Ltd.
> > (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> > Tel: 0141 568 2377
> > Fax: 0141 568 2366
> > http://www.calanais.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> > no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers 
>who
> >
> > make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen 
>when
> > we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> > >
> > >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> > >
> > >: )
> > >
> > >Patrice Boivin
> > >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> > >
> > >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> > >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> > >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> > >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> > >
> > >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  -Original Message-
> > >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> > >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >
> > >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> > >
> > >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
> >
> > under-worked
> >
> > >
> > >  <>
> > >
> > >  > -Original Messag

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Dejam, Ruth]

Jared,

You are so incredibly lucky.  I work for VoiceStream - a bazillion
duhvelopers and DB-ehs?.

~Ruth

Chaos, panic, and disorder - My work here is done!

-Original Message-
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Just to add to my previous comment:

I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.

The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
DBA in database related matters.

Not a duhveloper in the bunch.

Ya gotta love it!

Jared

On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
>
> Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
>
> And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
> "Thomas, Kevin"
>  list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>      cc:
> Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping
the
> list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> Please respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
> we
> all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range
of
> topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> application if your lives depended on it...
>
> (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
> wait for fireworks)
>
>
> "hit any user to continue"
> __
>
> Kevin Thomas
> Technical Analyst
> Deregulation Services
> Calanais Ltd.
> (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> Tel: 0141 568 2377
> Fax: 0141 568 2366
> http://www.calanais.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers
who
>
> make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
> we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
> :)
>
> From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
>
> under-worked
>
> >
> >  <>
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> >  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
>
> you
>
> >than I
> >
> >  > realized.
> >  >
> >  > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> >  > so many emails
> >  &g

Re: !! Keeping the list alive

[Jared Still]

Just to add to my previous comment:

I'm working at a company with small ( 40 or so ) IS shop.

The weak do not survive in this environment.  The developers
I work with here are great.  They're bright, hard working and
un-egotistical.  They are even will to take direction from the
DBA in database related matters.

Not a duhveloper in the bunch.

Ya gotta love it!

Jared

On Thursday 30 August 2001 14:16, you wrote:
> Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
>
> Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
> are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
> so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
>
> And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
> but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
> "Thomas, Kevin"
>  list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> anais.com>      cc:
> Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping the
> list alive [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> 08/30/01 08:26 AM
> Please respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
> we
> all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
> topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> application if your lives depended on it...
>
> (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
> wait for fireworks)
>
>
> "hit any user to continue"
> __
>
> Kevin Thomas
> Technical Analyst
> Deregulation Services
> Calanais Ltd.
> (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> Tel: 0141 568 2377
> Fax: 0141 568 2366
> http://www.calanais.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
>
> make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
> we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
> :)
>
> From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
>
> under-worked
>
> >
> >  <>
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> >  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
>
> you
>
> >than I
> >
> >  > realized.
> >  >
> >  > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> >  > so many emails
> >  > about
> >  > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right
>
> now.
>
> >  --
> >  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >  --
> >  Author:
&g

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Kimberly Smith]

I have actually really lucked out in the users department on this account.
Some of 
the folks here have to deal with some real difficult ones but I so far got
the better ones.  I do have to deal with some really stupid vendors though.


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 9:38 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



all depends on how you train the users. I have one here who consults me on 
everything... and listens to what I say. Rare I know, but you can find and 
nurture those

>From: "Farnsworth, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:16:17 -0800
>
> >- Jared wrote
> >-but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.
>
>"users" is the key word for me.  I like working with the developers but 
>keep
>the users far, very, very far away!
>
>Dave
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:16 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
>
>Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
>are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
>so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
>
>And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
>but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
>
>Jared
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Thomas, Kevin"
>
> list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> anais.com>  cc:
>
> Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping 
>the
>list alive
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
> 08/30/01 08:26 AM
>
> Please respond to
>
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
>couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
>we
>all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
>topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
>guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
>application if your lives depended on it...
>
>(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
>wait for fireworks)
>
>
>"hit any user to continue"
>__
>
>Kevin Thomas
>Technical Analyst
>Deregulation Services
>Calanais Ltd.
>(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
>Tel: 0141 568 2377
>Fax: 0141 568 2366
>http://www.calanais.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
>
>make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
>we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
>:)
>
>
>
> >From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
>under-worked
> >
> >  <>
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 20

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rachel Carmichael]

Ultimately, the users are the people you are working for. I'd rather involve 
them in the design stages so that I give them what they want and need rather 
than what I think they need.

Since THEY are the ones using the system, they have to be happy with it


>From: "Farnsworth, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:16:17 -0800
>
> >- Jared wrote
> >-but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.
>
>"users" is the key word for me.  I like working with the developers but 
>keep
>the users far, very, very far away!
>
>Dave
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:16 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
>
>Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
>are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
>so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
>
>And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
>but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
>
>Jared
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     "Thomas, Kevin"
>
> list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> anais.com>  cc:
>
> Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping 
>the
>list alive
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
> 08/30/01 08:26 AM
>
> Please respond to
>
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
>couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
>we
>all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
>topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
>guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
>application if your lives depended on it...
>
>(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
>wait for fireworks)
>
>
>"hit any user to continue"
>__
>
>Kevin Thomas
>Technical Analyst
>Deregulation Services
>Calanais Ltd.
>(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
>Tel: 0141 568 2377
>Fax: 0141 568 2366
>http://www.calanais.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
>
>make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
>we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
>:)
>
>
>
> >From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
>under-worked
> >
> >  <>
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> >  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > This list is apparent

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rachel Carmichael]

all depends on how you train the users. I have one here who consults me on 
everything... and listens to what I say. Rare I know, but you can find and 
nurture those

>From: "Farnsworth, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:16:17 -0800
>
> >- Jared wrote
> >-but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.
>
>"users" is the key word for me.  I like working with the developers but 
>keep
>the users far, very, very far away!
>
>Dave
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:16 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)
>
>Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
>are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
>so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)
>
>And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
>but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)
>
>Jared
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Thomas, Kevin"
>
> list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> anais.com>  cc:
>
> Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping 
>the
>list alive
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
> 08/30/01 08:26 AM
>
> Please respond to
>
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
>couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
>we
>all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
>topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
>guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
>application if your lives depended on it...
>
>(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
>wait for fireworks)
>
>
>"hit any user to continue"
>__
>
>Kevin Thomas
>Technical Analyst
>Deregulation Services
>Calanais Ltd.
>(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
>Tel: 0141 568 2377
>Fax: 0141 568 2366
>http://www.calanais.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
>
>make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
>we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
>:)
>
>
>
> >From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> >  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> >  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> >  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
>under-worked
> >
> >  <>
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> >  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
>you
> >than I
> >  > realized.
&g

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Farnsworth, Dave]

>- Jared wrote
>-but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.

"users" is the key word for me.  I like working with the developers but keep
the users far, very, very far away!

Dave

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)

Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)

And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)

Jared




 

"Thomas, Kevin"


anais.com>  cc:

            Sent by:Subject: RE: !! Keeping the
list alive 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

08/30/01 08:26 AM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L

 

 





I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
we
all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
application if your lives depended on it...

(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
wait for fireworks)


"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who

make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.

:)



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>      From:      [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
under-worked
>
>  <>
>
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
you
>than I
>  > realized.
>  >
>  > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>  > so many emails
>  > about
>  > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right
now.
>  >
>  >
>  --
>  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>  --
>  Author:
>INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>  Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
538-5051
>  San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>

>  To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
message
>  to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and
in
>  the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>  (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You
may
>  also send t

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Thomas, Kevin]

Well thanks for that, I was maybe a tad hasty ;-)

"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 18:57
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


  Well, I've only seen you posting on this list for about a month now, so I
think you missed the context of "duhveloper".  It is generally used around
here to refer to those developers out there who "just don't get it" (don't
bother with proper design of stuff, never bother with sql tuning, think they
can just throw stuff together and it'll work like magic the first time and
never require maintaining, etc, etc, ad nauseum).  If you are a good
developer (which some of your posts definitely implies), I doubt you should
be worried about being bundled in with them (and you know who 'they' are
'cause I've seen you mention frustration with them in some of your posts).
:)

Okay, now back to lurking...

Jeffery Stevenson
Chief Databeast Tamer
Medical Present Value, Inc.
Austin, TX


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:27 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and we
all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
application if your lives depended on it...

(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
wait for fireworks)


"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who 
make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.

:)



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>   You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>   You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
>
>   <>
>
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
>than I
>   > realized.
>   >
>   > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>   > so many emails
>   > about
>   > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>   --
>   Author:
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>   San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>   
>   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>   to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>   the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Thomas, Kevin]

;-) thanks...I don't feel quite so inferior now...LOL

So, what's this database thingy you guys keep talking about...grin


"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 18:27
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


kevin,

who called you a "duhveloper"?  There are definite two types of techie 
non-DBAs... the "duhveloper" (ala Dilbert) and the "developer" (someone who 
actually WANTS to learn more about the database).  Seems to me you fall into

the latter category just by being part of this list.

(pouring water on that touch-paper)

Rachel


>From: "Thomas, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:26:59 -0800
>
>I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
>couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and 
>we
>all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
>topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
>guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
>application if your lives depended on it...
>
>(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
>wait for fireworks)
>
>
>"hit any user to continue"
>__
>
>Kevin Thomas
>Technical Analyst
>Deregulation Services
>Calanais Ltd.
>(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
>Tel: 0141 568 2377
>Fax: 0141 568 2366
>http://www.calanais.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
>make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
>we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
>:)
>
>
>
> >From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> > You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> > You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
> >
> > <>
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
> >than I
> > > realized.
> > >
> > > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> > > so many emails
> > > about
> > > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author:
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> >Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of &

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Jared . Still]

Um, Kevin, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.  :)

Not all developers are duhvelopers, in fact, most of the ones I know
are very good, but the ones that are duhvelopers require
so much attention that it kind of wears on you.  :)

And some of us DB-ehs can do just fine writing apps, thank you,
but we choose a path that requires less 'direction' from users.  ;)

Jared




   

"Thomas, Kevin"


anais.com>  cc:

Sent by:            Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   

   

   

08/30/01 08:26 AM  

Please respond to  

ORACLE-L   

   

   





I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
we
all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
application if your lives depended on it...

(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
wait for fireworks)


"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who

make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.

:)



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  Sent:  Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>  To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  Subject:   RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>  You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>  You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
under-worked
>
>  <>
>
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of
you
>than I
>  > realized.
>  >
>  > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>  > so many emails
>  > about
>  > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right
now.
> 

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Jeffery Stevenson]

  Well, I've only seen you posting on this list for about a month now, so I
think you missed the context of "duhveloper".  It is generally used around
here to refer to those developers out there who "just don't get it" (don't
bother with proper design of stuff, never bother with sql tuning, think they
can just throw stuff together and it'll work like magic the first time and
never require maintaining, etc, etc, ad nauseum).  If you are a good
developer (which some of your posts definitely implies), I doubt you should
be worried about being bundled in with them (and you know who 'they' are
'cause I've seen you mention frustration with them in some of your posts).
:)

Okay, now back to lurking...

Jeffery Stevenson
Chief Databeast Tamer
Medical Present Value, Inc.
Austin, TX


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:27 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and we
all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
application if your lives depended on it...

(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
wait for fireworks)


"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who 
make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.

:)



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>   -Original Message-----
>   From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>   You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>   You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
>
>   <>
>
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
>than I
>   > realized.
>   >
>   > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>   > so many emails
>   > about
>   > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>   --
>   Author:
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>   San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>   
>   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>   to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>   the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>   (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>   also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California 

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rao, Maheswara]

Title: RE: !! Keeping the list alive



I 
support.

  -Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 
  11:22 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: !! Keeping the list alive
  AMEN! 
  
-Original Message- From:   Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent:   Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:    RE: !! Keeping the list alive 
no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from 
killing the duhvelopers who make us do 
the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design 
the tables. 
:) 
>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: 
RE: !! Keeping the list alive >Date: 
Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800 > >Just look at the number 
of OT postings in the last couple of months... > >: ) > >Patrice 
Boivin >Systems Analyst (Oracle 
Certified DBA) > >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. 
des systèmes >Technology 
Services    | Services 
technologiques >Informatics 
Branch | Direction de 
l'informatique >Maritimes Region, 
DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO 
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > >   -Original 
Message- >   From:   
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >   Sent:   Wednesday, 
August 29, 2001 7:58 PM >   To: 
Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L >   
Subject:    RE: !! Keeping the list 
alive > >   You're surprised at those 
willing to pay? > >   You have to 
realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked > >   
<> > 
>   > 
-Original Message- >   > From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>   > 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM >   > To: Multiple recipients 
of list ORACLE-L >   > Subject: !! Keeping the 
list alive >   > >   > 
>   
> >   > This list is apparently 
a more valuable resource to many of you >than I >   > realized. 
>   
> >   > I'm literally bowled 
over by the generosity.  I've received >   > so many emails 
>   > 
about >   > this that I really 
can't personally reply to them all right now. >   > >   > 
>   
-- >   Please see the official 
ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >   -- >   Author: 
>     
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
>   Fat 
City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 
538-5051 >   San Diego, 
California    -- Public Internet 
access / Mailing >Lists 
>   
 
>   To 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message 
>   to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
>   the 
message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >   (or the name of 
mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may >   also send the 
HELP command for other information (like subscribing). >-- >Please see 
the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Boivin, Patrice 
J >   INET: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
>Fat City Network Services    
-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California    
-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > 
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, 
send an E-Mail message >to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
>the message BODY, include a line containing: 
UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of 
mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like 
subscribing). 
_ 
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp 
-- Please see 
the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel 
Carmichael   INET: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Fat City Network Services    -- 
(858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California    -- 
Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rachel Carmichael]

kevin,

who called you a "duhveloper"?  There are definite two types of techie 
non-DBAs... the "duhveloper" (ala Dilbert) and the "developer" (someone who 
actually WANTS to learn more about the database).  Seems to me you fall into 
the latter category just by being part of this list.

(pouring water on that touch-paper)

Rachel


>From: "Thomas, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:26:59 -0800
>
>I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
>couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and 
>we
>all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
>topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
>guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
>application if your lives depended on it...
>
>(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
>wait for fireworks)
>
>
>"hit any user to continue"
>__
>
>Kevin Thomas
>Technical Analyst
>Deregulation Services
>Calanais Ltd.
>(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
>Tel: 0141 568 2377
>Fax: 0141 568 2366
>http://www.calanais.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
>make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
>we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
>:)
>
>
>
> >From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> > You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> > You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
> >
> > <>
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
> >than I
> > > realized.
> > >
> > > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> > > so many emails
> > > about
> > > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author:
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> >Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Of course the guilty ones want to avoid that $1000 fine...

: )

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


-Original Message-
From:   Koivu, Lisa [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:22 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive

AMEN! 

-Original Message- 
From:   Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent:   Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:46 AM 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive 


no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the
duhvelopers who 
make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never
listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design the tables. 

:) 



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
    >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive 
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800 
> 
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of
months... 
> 
>: ) 
> 
>Patrice Boivin 
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) 
> 
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes 
>Technology Services| Services technologiques 
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO 
> 
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> 
> 
> 
>   -Original Message- 
>   From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>   Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM 
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
>   Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive 
> 
>   You're surprised at those willing to pay? 
> 
>   You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and
under-worked 
> 
>   <> 
> 
>   > -Original Message- 
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] 
>   > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM 
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
>   > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many
of you 
>than I 
>   > realized. 
>   > 
>   > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've
received 
>   > so many emails 
>   > about 
>   > this that I really can't personally reply to them all
right now. 
>   > 
>   > 
>   -- 
>   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
<http://www.orafaq.com>  
>   -- 
>   Author: 
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
>   Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
538-5051 
>   San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
Mailing 
>Lists 
>
 
>   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
message 
>   to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
and in 
>   the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L 
>   (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).
You may 
>   also send the HELP command for other information (like
subscribing). 
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
<http://www.orafaq.com>  
>-- 
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J 
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051

>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists 

> 
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message 
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in

>the me

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Thomas, Kevin]

I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and we
all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
application if your lives depended on it...

(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
wait for fireworks)


"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who 
make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.

:)



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>   You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>   You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
>
>   <>
>
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
>than I
>   > realized.
>   >
>   > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>   > so many emails
>   > about
>   > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>   --
>   Author:
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>   San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>   
>   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>   to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>   the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>   (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>   also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from

Re: !! Keeping the list alive

[Jan Pruner]

Sounds like your company is looking for a new DBA? :-

Jan Pruner

Dne ?t 30. srpen 2001 17:26 jste napsal(a):
> I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
> couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and
> we all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range
> of topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
> guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
> application if your lives depended on it...
>
> (blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
> wait for fireworks)
>
>
> "hit any user to continue"
> __
>
> Kevin Thomas
> Technical Analyst
> Deregulation Services
> Calanais Ltd.
> (2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
> Tel: 0141 568 2377
> Fax: 0141 568 2366
> http://www.calanais.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who
> make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when
> we tell them the correct way to design the tables.
>
> :)
>
> From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
> >
> >Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
> >
> >: )
> >
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
> >
> > You're surprised at those willing to pay?
> >
> > You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
> >
> > <>
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
> >
> >than I
> >
> > > realized.
> > >
> > > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
> > > so many emails
> > > about
> > > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author:
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> >Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> >
> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >(or the name of mailing list you want to 

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Christopher Spence]

Interesting post, but it highly depends on the duh-velupur as well as the db
eh.

Some developers are very aware of SQL Tuning, some are not.
Some DBA's are great coders, some are not.

But neither are as good as a good developer and a good dba working together.


"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence 
Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax:(707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863
 



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:27 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have to say I resent being called a duhveloper, granted the majority
couldn't tune a banjo let alone tune a piece of SQL, but as a techie (and we
all are), I find this list invaluable for getting advice on a wide range of
topics, not just keeping a DB up and running or tuned...I don't call you
guys names, and let's face it you DB-ehs? couldn't write a decent
application if your lives depended on it...

(blue touch-paper lit, retire a distance, do not re-approach once lit, and
wait for fireworks)


"hit any user to continue"
__

Kevin Thomas
Technical Analyst
Deregulation Services
Calanais Ltd.
(2nd Floor East - Weirs Building)
Tel: 0141 568 2377
Fax: 0141 568 2366
http://www.calanais.com


-Original Message-
Sent: 30 August 2001 15:46
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who 
make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.

:)



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>   You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>   You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked 
>
>   <>
>
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
than 
>I
>   > realized.
>   >
>   > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>   > so many emails
>   > about
>   > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>   --
>   Author:
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>   San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>   
>   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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>   (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>   also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>message BODY, i

RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Koivu, Lisa]

Title: RE: !! Keeping the list alive





AMEN!


-Original Message-
From:   Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:46 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    RE: !! Keeping the list alive



no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who 
make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.


:)




>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services    | Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Subject:    RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>   You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>   You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
>
>   <>
>
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
>than I
>   > realized.
>   >
>   > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>   > so many emails
>   > about
>   > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>   --
>   Author:
>     INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>   San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>   
>   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>   to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>   the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>   (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>   also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Rachel Carmichael]

no, those posts keep us "underworked" DBAs from killing the duhvelopers who 
make us do the same thing over and over and over and who never listen when 
we tell them the correct way to design the tables.

:)



>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:00:52 -0800
>
>Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...
>
>: )
>
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Subject:RE: !! Keeping the list alive
>
>   You're surprised at those willing to pay?
>
>   You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked
>
>   <>
>
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   > Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
>than I
>   > realized.
>   >
>   > I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received
>   > so many emails
>   > about
>   > this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>   --
>   Author:
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>   San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>   
>   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>   to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>   the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>   (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>   also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Just look at the number of OT postings in the last couple of months...

: )

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:58 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    RE: !! Keeping the list alive

You're surprised at those willing to pay?

You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked

<>

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> 
> 
> 
> This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you
than I
> realized.
> 
> I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received 
> so many emails
> about
> this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
> 
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Lists

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--
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RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[schmoldt]

You're surprised at those willing to pay?

You have to realize that most DBAs are over-payed and under-worked 
<>

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: !! Keeping the list alive
> 
> 
> 
> This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you than I
> realized.
> 
> I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received 
> so many emails
> about
> this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.
> 
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Kevin Lange]

And you are suprised at the response ??? Not from this end !!  There is
a lot of info out here that is just not available without a lot more
research than I have time for.



-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you than I
realized.

I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received so many emails
about
this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.

Many of you have asked some questions I would like to answer now.

Q.  How many members are there on this list.
A.  About 1500

Q. Why don't we just divide the amount needed by the number of
members and ask everyone for that amount?
A.  Not too practical.   This list is international.  It could present a
hardship for some.  Not everyone feels they get the same benefit
from the list.

Q.  Why not make this a fee based subscription?
A.  Charging a fee presents all kinds of additional complexity that
I don't care to introduce.

Q.  How much should I give?
A. That's up to you.  Don't make it a burden though.  Don't clean
out your savings, or anything like that. Many are pledging $10 or
$20 U.S.,  some more.  We don't want it to hurt.  :)

Q.  How can I send you some money?
A.  Details forthcoming.  You can send it to Bruce via PayPal.
Some want to send checks, what have you.  We'll post a PayPal
account and an address.


Thanks

Jared



-- 
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Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Srinivas_Madala]

what man what else? are U leaving the office?
ekkada work vachi potundhi.
madala

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RE: !! Keeping the list alive

[Tirumala, Surendra]

Waiting for the details

Suren

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



This list is apparently a more valuable resource to many of you than I
realized.

I'm literally bowled over by the generosity.  I've received so many emails
about
this that I really can't personally reply to them all right now.

Many of you have asked some questions I would like to answer now.

Q.  How many members are there on this list.
A.  About 1500

Q. Why don't we just divide the amount needed by the number of
members and ask everyone for that amount?
A.  Not too practical.   This list is international.  It could present a
hardship for some.  Not everyone feels they get the same benefit
from the list.

Q.  Why not make this a fee based subscription?
A.  Charging a fee presents all kinds of additional complexity that
I don't care to introduce.

Q.  How much should I give?
A. That's up to you.  Don't make it a burden though.  Don't clean
out your savings, or anything like that. Many are pledging $10 or
$20 U.S.,  some more.  We don't want it to hurt.  :)

Q.  How can I send you some money?
A.  Details forthcoming.  You can send it to Bruce via PayPal.
Some want to send checks, what have you.  We'll post a PayPal
account and an address.


Thanks

Jared



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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-- 
Author: Tirumala, Surendra
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RE: !! Keeping the list alive - part deux

[George Hofilena]

Jared,

Count me in for $20 (for now).

George

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Forgot one question;


Q.  I would love to help, can I remain anonymous?
A. Certainly.  We have no intention of publishing contributors.



-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: !! Keeping the list alive - part deux

[TCarlson]

Dido.

Todd Carlson
Oracle 8i Certified DBA
Bunge North America


   

   

   GeorgeTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L  

Hofilena  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   

Subject: RE: !! Keeping the list alive - 
part 
Sent by:  deux 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

om 

   

   

   08/29/2001  

02:27 PM   

   Please  

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   





Jared,

Count me in for $20 (for now).

George

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Forgot one question;


Q.  I would love to help, can I remain anonymous?
A. Certainly.  We have no intention of publishing contributors.



--
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Author:
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).