RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Very possible to do. It's a bit involved but it is documented in my Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery book and it will work for 8i. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Freeman Robert - IL INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
I have done it in 8.0.6.3 and one earlier version. As Robert says, it is a bit involved. I had help from Oracle Support when I had to do it. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 1:23 AM Indeed you can do this. It's a bit involved, but it's documented in my Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery Book, and it is supported in 8i. RF -Original Message- Hostetter Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository In your case, the recovery catalog makes it MUCH MUCH easier! :-) So, I'm not saying you are incorrect, only that nobody should ever think they are unrecoverable just because RMAN can not find a backup set record in the repository or control file. Even in the case you state, as long as you know which tape the backup is on, you can manually recover those backups using the dbms_backup_restore package within Oracle (which is available when the instance is started). Basically, as long as you have the media and it's not corrupted and the MML stuff is configured correctly, you can extract the backup sets from that media regardless of the presence or lack thereof of the control file or the recovery catalog. It's just going to be painful but far less painful than looking for a job because you couldn't recover your database. RF -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Johnston, TimSent: Monday, January 13, 2003 7:29 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I do have one scenario where you really have to use a recovery catalog... When attempting to backup a VLDB that usesread only tablespaces and extremely infrequent backups for most of the data (i.e. a large datawarehouse), a recovery catalog is very important... You just may not have the time to perform full backups of your multi terabyte database... In this case, you better hope that the backup of your read only tablespace from 15 months ago is still around... Since the CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP parameter only goes to 1 year, you may be stuck unless you have that data in a recovery catalog... Tim -Original Message-From: Freeman Robert - IL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:35 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; Actually, you can, it's just a manual process. This is documented in the RMAN book. Also, in 9i you can do automated backup/restore of control files of your database in RMAN without the recovery catalog, and you can manually recover a control file if that is required using dbms_backup_restore. Robert Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:46 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared "Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I di
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
on the international space station, God help you when you have to figure out their code. Perhaps you are the shell scripter expert, but the same problem exists, once you leave who is going to sit and figure out that cool code that you wrote? With RMAN, Oracle is the support for your backup and recovery product. Since it's an Oracle database to begin with it makes since to me to use their product. I think in 8i and particularly 9i, RMAN has become incredibly easy to use, feature rich and very robust. I mean, when all you really have to do to perform a hot backup on your database is to fire up rman and type in backup database and the whole shebang is taken care of... well, it just isn't going to get much easier. As for the hot backup/cold backup question about the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are === message truncated === __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
oh Lord, I hope not. The scripts aren't that perfect. Besides, that would get REALLY noisy, wouldn't it? I don't put comments in because I'm perfect, I put them in because of the exact opposite condition. Swiss-cheese memory, so if I don't comment what I've done, I have to reinvent the wheel and figure it out all over again And I learned, in the one management class I ever took, that if I ever want to be promoted, or move on to more fun stuff, I have to have made my job one that someone else can step into. I hated being indispensable --- Robert Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I expect the angels probably sing when your shell scripts are running Rachel. :-) RF -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm not saying RMAN should not be used... I wondered why a database was needed to store the information. It's obviously NOT needed or you couldn't use the controlfiles for the RMAN information. and for what it's worth, no matter how fancy I CAN write a script, I try to write it as plain vanilla as possible, with lots of comments about what I am doing at each step. I realize this sets me apart from the norm but who wants to be normal? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
And I learned, in the one management class I ever took, that if I ever want to be promoted, or move on to more fun stuff, I have to have made my job one that someone else can step into. You know, if more people realized that, then there would be fewer people complaining about not moving up in the world. RMAN is a beautiful thing... :-)) RF -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L oh Lord, I hope not. The scripts aren't that perfect. Besides, that would get REALLY noisy, wouldn't it? I don't put comments in because I'm perfect, I put them in because of the exact opposite condition. Swiss-cheese memory, so if I don't comment what I've done, I have to reinvent the wheel and figure it out all over again And I learned, in the one management class I ever took, that if I ever want to be promoted, or move on to more fun stuff, I have to have made my job one that someone else can step into. I hated being indispensable --- Robert Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I expect the angels probably sing when your shell scripts are running Rachel. :-) RF -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm not saying RMAN should not be used... I wondered why a database was needed to store the information. It's obviously NOT needed or you couldn't use the controlfiles for the RMAN information. and for what it's worth, no matter how fancy I CAN write a script, I try to write it as plain vanilla as possible, with lots of comments about what I am doing at each step. I realize this sets me apart from the norm but who wants to be normal? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Indeed you can do this. It's a bit involved, but it's documented in my Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery Book, and it is supported in 8i. RF -Original Message- Hostetter Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Freeman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I do
have one scenario where you really have to use a recovery catalog... When
attempting to backup a VLDB that usesread only tablespaces and extremely
infrequent backups for most of the data (i.e. a large datawarehouse), a recovery
catalog is very important... You just may not have the time to perform
full backups of your multi terabyte database... In this case, you better
hope that the backup of your read only tablespace from 15 months ago is still
around... Since the CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP parameter only goes to 1
year, you may be stuck unless you have that data in a recovery
catalog...
Tim
-Original Message-From: Freeman Robert - IL
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:35
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
RE : RMAN Repository
The only things you can't do with
controlfile RMAN/database metadata is:
1) use previous "incarnations" of the
database for recovery;
Actually, you can, it's just a manual process. This
is documented in the RMAN book. Also, in 9i you can do automated
backup/restore of control files of your database in RMAN without the recovery
catalog, and you can manually recover a control file if that is required using
dbms_backup_restore.
Robert
Robert G. FreemanTechnical
Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts
www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of
several books you can find on Amazon.com!
-Original Message-From: Orr, Steve
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:46
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
RE : RMAN Repository
If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make
sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to
backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup
controlfiles.
Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same.
The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1)
use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database
stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.
When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was
a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using
controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the
backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository
database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly
criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds
information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this
silliness seems reasonable to me.
Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman,
Montana
-Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance:
High
And how does one go about restoring a database when all
control files are lost, and the only recovery data
is stored in the control file?
This doesn't sound very reasonable.
Jared
"Deshpande, Kirti"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:
Subject: RE : RMAN
Repository
Joe, That's what I have heard
(from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it
may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not
pursue it further.
- Kirti
-Original Message- Sent:
Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple
recipients of list ORACLE-L
snip
Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by
some instructors that RMAN repository is going away
and only control file recoveries will be possible,
truth or fiction?
joe
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Geez Tom, I didn't realize it was so simple. ;) On Friday 10 January 2003 11:04, Mercadante, Thomas F wrote: separate and simplify the issues. develop a bullet-proof backup and recovery plan for the Rman repository *first*. then develop plans for production databases. trying to do both at the same time is a fools-errand. waste of time. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I get requests from developers to refresh test databases from production backups that are 30 days old. This is for billing system software, where they need to test bill runs. Back when our cluster software was still buggy, this would occassionally require restoring from a previous incarnation, because the production database had been recovered with RESETLOGS. If I can do this in 8.1.7 without an RMAN respository, I'd love to hear about it. Arup - I love the leather interior tank analogy! Jay Hostetter Oracle DBA D. E. Communications Ephrata, PA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 06:19PM Hey Brian, I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do. :-) I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for. Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior incarnation when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository. I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR... Who said backup and recovery was boring? :-) Steve Orr **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Oh yes, yes, yes. You are correct. It *may* work, but it's not guaranteed to work because an RMAN (and OID) transaction can constitute multiple DB transactions in their respective repositories. When I saw that feature of OID, I did some investigating and felt that we would not be at significant risk of recovery failure given our environment. Of course, to be sure I also had planned in a full LDIF export immediately following the hotback. :) Thanks for the refresher, Jared! That memory must have been a weak buffalo culled from the herd by beer. :) Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Jesse, Rich; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
SQL from text files is possible via external tables in 9i, or via Perl and DBD::CSV ( if comma delimited ) possible, but not my favorite way to access data. :) Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 07:24 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I actually think RMAN is pretty simple. First, most of the MML vendors offer a product that allows you to monitor the tape read/write process if you are using MML... So that allows you to do the monitoring thing. The problem with shell scripts are numerous. First of all, the person who wrote it may be a much more advanced shell scripter than you are. Once they take that cool DBA job on the international space station, God help you when you have to figure out their code. Perhaps you are the shell scripter expert, but the same problem exists, once you leave who is going to sit and figure out that cool code that you wrote? With RMAN, Oracle is the support for your backup and recovery product. Since it's an Oracle database to begin with it makes since to me to use their product. I think in 8i and particularly 9i, RMAN has become incredibly easy to use, feature rich and very robust. I mean, when all you really have to do to perform a hot backup on your database is to fire up rman and type in backup database and the whole shebang is taken care of... well, it just isn't going to get much easier. As for the hot backup/cold backup question about the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are === message truncated === __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
robust. I mean, when all you really have to do to perform a hot backup on your database is to fire up rman and type in backup database and the whole shebang is taken care of... well, it just isn't going to get much easier. As for the hot backup/cold backup question about the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
the repository Are we talking about cold backups in ARCHIVELOG mode or cold cold, NOARCHIVELOG backups? I much prefer hot backups of the repository myself, but YMMV. RF Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks for the support, Rachel. I was wondering if I was the only one in this want-simple-and-robust-RMAN camp. What you described for cold backups, I used to do for hot backups as well in the pre-RMAN days and do it even now. In fact in a site we use BrightStor backup software from CA, I create a shell script on the fly with all the sql and the backup commands and execute that. In the end, the script as well as the log files are backed up to the tape as well. In some previous site, I had the good fortune to have a excellent shell scripter in my team who wrote nice scripts to read these logs and report all kinds of things like last backup date, the SCN number of last backup, the scn number in the controlfile, etc., very close to what RMAN provides. And, best of all, no Oracle database to worry about. Why couldn't RMAN do that? I still stand by my leather interior tank analogy. Throw in a monnroof and heated seats, it makes it comfortable and robust but when you max out your card paying for gas or take for an oil-change, you perhaps wonder may be I should have a Jetta! Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:04 AM way back when, I wrote my own set of scripts to handle backups. As each datafile was backed up, I wrote the full path name to a text file. At the end of the backup the text file was written to tape as well. As I did restores, I read the text file. then I used that file to let me know which file I was reading from the tape and where to put it. I wrote another text file while I was doing the restore, as each file was successfully read and written to disk. This allowed me to restart the restore from where I had stopped, instead of from the beginning again. Admittedly, this was for cold backups of the Oracle database, but I can't see why RMAN couldn't have as easily done the same thing for hot backups. --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Gene, i consider it a good redundancy method for recovery. put the repository on a 24x7 machine, that way if you lose all of the controlfiles you can still easily restore/recover. my 2 cents worth. joe This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ORACLE- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I hadnt heard that the repository was going away. I did hear, however, at the IOUG meeting last year, that the reporting mechanisms were going to be significantly enhanced, putting it on par with the repository-based reporting. That came directly from one of the Oracle RMAN strategists, if I recall correctly. Brian -- | Brian McGraw /* DBA */ Infinity Insurance | | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Gene Sais Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. RF Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I find it useful for organizing and keeping track of my backups so that during recovery it is as simple as running pre-scripted queries to see what I have available - geez am I the only one who likes RMAN and doesn't think it makes things that difficult - really? Robert Freeman - what say you? -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; Actually, you can, it's just a manual process. This is documented in the RMAN book. Also, in 9i you can do automated backup/restore of control files of your database in RMAN without the recovery catalog, and you can manually recover a control file if that is required using dbms_backup_restore. Robert Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:46 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared "Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there aregreat reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up?Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LInteresting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If therepository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it.Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears muchsimpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, whatare the real benefits to using a repository?Thanks,GenePS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.nethttp://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comhttp://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared "Orr, Steve" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared "Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Paula, i like it and the respository, cause its just my anal- retentiveness coming out about having 2 places to easily be able to recover(the repository and control file). joe This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I find it useful for organizing and keeping track of my backups so that during recovery it is as simple as running pre-scripted queries to see what I have available - geez am I the only one who likes RMAN and doesn't think it makes things that difficult - really? Robert Freeman - what say you? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ORACLE- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
I like using a repository because I hate to document. Every is there for the asking. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:49 PM Paula, i like it and the respository, cause its just my anal- retentiveness coming out about having 2 places to easily be able to recover(the repository and control file). joe This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I find it useful for organizing and keeping track of my backups so that during recovery it is as simple as running pre-scripted queries to see what I have available - geez am I the only one who likes RMAN and doesn't think it makes things that difficult - really? Robert Freeman - what say you? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ORACLE- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Robert - Thank you! I will go with the KISS principle anytime. Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:45AM I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. RF Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! -Original Message-From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it).then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure.joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And how does one go about restoring a database when all control filesare lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?This doesn't sound very reasonable.Jared"Deshpande, Kirti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE : RMAN RepositoryJoe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message-Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsnip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction?joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Gene - I would think your site would be just what the repository was designed for. You could use a single repository for all 25 databases. Then each day you could execute a simple query and receive an exception report that tells you any backup vulnerabilities for any of the 25 systems. Without the repository you'd have to spend a lot of your time either typing commands each day or creating programs to perform what RMAN offers built in. As to the rumors that Oracle is going to soon abandon the RMAN repository, I agree with Robert (if I recall correctly). How could they? Large Oracle customers are heavily committed to the repository, and Oracle usually doesn't do anything that stupid. But people are whining about why they are forced to use the repository, so Oracle is emphasizing that you can get most of the benefits without a repository. But in your situation, I would strongly consider the repository. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there are great reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services--
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
You can make up a universal script that logs into each an gets the appropriate info. Just takes a little thinking -its a little more time but can be done. Brian -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - I would think your site would be just what the repository was designed for. You could use a single repository for all 25 databases. Then each day you could execute a simple query and receive an exception report that tells you any backup vulnerabilities for any of the 25 systems. Without the repository you'd have to spend a lot of your time either typing commands each day or creating programs to perform what RMAN offers built in. As to the rumors that Oracle is going to soon abandon the RMAN repository, I agree with Robert (if I recall correctly). How could they? Large Oracle customers are heavily committed to the repository, and Oracle usually doesn't do anything that stupid. But people are whining about why they are forced to use the repository, so Oracle is emphasizing that you can get most of the benefits without a repository. But in your situation, I would strongly consider the repository. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there are great reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Brian - Not disputing that at all. I even enjoy it when I had some spare time to sit down and do just that. But why create and maintain something when Oracle offers it built-in. I can even envision a manager saying I paid you for WHAT?? We'll consider that time as counting against your vacation. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:19 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You can make up a universal script that logs into each an gets the appropriate info. Just takes a little thinking -its a little more time but can be done. Brian -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Gene - I would think your site would be just what the repository was designed for. You could use a single repository for all 25 databases. Then each day you could execute a simple query and receive an exception report that tells you any backup vulnerabilities for any of the 25 systems. Without the repository you'd have to spend a lot of your time either typing commands each day or creating programs to perform what RMAN offers built in. As to the rumors that Oracle is going to soon abandon the RMAN repository, I agree with Robert (if I recall correctly). How could they? Large Oracle customers are heavily committed to the repository, and Oracle usually doesn't do anything that stupid. But people are whining about why they are forced to use the repository, so Oracle is emphasizing that you can get most of the benefits without a repository. But in your situation, I would strongly consider the repository. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis - I am now running 8.1.6 8.1.7 w/out RMAN, soon to upgrade to 9.2 then implement RMAN. I have 25 db instances. I am thinking of using RMAN w/out a repository unless there are great reasons not to :) Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/03 11:24AM Gene - Which Oracle version(s)? How many instances will you be backing up? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Interesting thread, since I am just embarking on using RMAN. If the repository is to go away then why bother learning the intricacies of it. Has anyone else heard the RMAN repository was going away? It appears much simpler to setup w/out the repository. Besides reporting advantages, what are the real benefits to using a repository? Thanks, Gene PS. Now reading Robert's book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/03 05:19PM its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Not having used RMAN since it's inception, I'm a little confused. Why couldn't you backup the DB hot, provided it wasn't using RMAN or at least that repository? Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Orr, Steve To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:18 PM Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE the non-database solution, Oracle has already done that, it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who wrote the book on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. Use of the RMAN repository WAS strongly recommended by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that truism no longer holds. You can see this transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the 7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to recover to and does it have access to the backup media? IMHO, :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Hey
Brian,
I only
talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do.
:-)
I
confess to presently using the suppository,er a repositorybut
anticipate just using control files
after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script
with parameters and if it'sa non-catalog backup I also backup the
controlfiles. I don't anticipate
problems with exceeding max files. I create a dailyASCII file with a
listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking
for.
Do you
accept losing the backup history and cross fingers
Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But
I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior
"incarnation" when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful
backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed
until 5 days later.To do this I created another database on another
server, did thePITR then restored the specific tables while all the other
tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository.
I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I
occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a
new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery
scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss
of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment
datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of
1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss
of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server
meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITRand tablespace PITR...
Who said backup and recovery was boring?
:-)
Steve Orr
-Original Message-From: Spears, Brian
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003
2:54 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
I
agree Steve, and thanks for the info.
Do you have any procedures to cover backup logic
holes if you
have
to rebuild the controlfile for some reason (Ie.. maximum files reached
etc)
Do
you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers or ... have
procedure
to
account for that?
Brian
-Original Message-From: Orr, Steve
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:07
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
RE : RMAN Repository
You can have
a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE
the "non-database solution," Oracle has already done that, it's called
the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who "wrote the book" on
RMAN where, in another post he wrote, "I actually find the repository of
little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it
for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the
overall administrative
costs and
thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that
good."
Use of the RMAN
repository WAS "strongly recommended" by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that "truism" no longer holds. You can
see this transition if you compare the recommended
practices in the current Oracle documentation
against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the
7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that
Oracle is working on eliminating this silly
dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, "Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want
to recover to and does it have access to the backup
media?"
IMHO, :-)
Steve Orr
-Original Message- From:
DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large
to be worth considering an RMAN catalog
configuration, then you can easily find a location
for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a
non-database solution, then that would have become a
development project all its own. And people would
have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined
about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where
Larry is concerned I would never count out the
profit motive.
Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message- Sent:
Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple
recipients of list ORACLE-L
Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup
license and serve
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Never heard of the q29_6 parameter. :-) Looks like excess glue spilled during a cut and paste operation. -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Brian - You may want to be aware of the following parameter: q29_6There are several new features that are present in the Oracle8 control file, so that it is significantly changed from and larger than the Oracle7 control file. The Oracle8 control file stores information that is of use to RMAN. Some of this information is recycled, while other information is permanent. A new parameter called CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME allows the DBA to specify the period of time after which data in recyclable portions of the control file expire so that the space in the control file that the data occupied can be reused. If more of this RMAN information needs to be stored, and the old information has not expired, then the control file will expand to accommodate the new data as well as the old. The value for CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME is specified as an integer, representing the number of days recyclable data will be stored before it expires. When this parameter is set to 0, the control file will not expand, allowing Oracle to expire the recyclable data as needed, to make room for new data. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I agree Steve, and thanks for the info. Do you have any procedures to cover backup logic holes if you have to rebuild the controlfile for some reason (Ie.. maximum files reached etc) Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers or ... have procedure to account for that? Brian -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE the non-database solution, Oracle has already done that, it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who wrote the book on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good. Use of the RMAN repository WAS strongly recommended by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that truism no longer holds. You can see this transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the 7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to recover to and does it have access to the backup media? IMHO, :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Huh!!! Quote If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. /Quote That sent a shiver through the spine, Jared. I admit, I never tested the recovery of the RMAN repository and never (shame on me!) considered the effect of incomplete recovery of the catalog. Others, any ideas? specifically the effect of losing the catalog database and recreating it from a hot backup? Robert Freeman, perhaps? This is another reason why I dislike the idea of a database to store the recovery catalog. Granted, the catalog needs to stored somewhere and it happens to be in (surprise! surprise!!) an Oracle database; but it's more akin to driving a leather interior tank to work everyday. It could have been plain and simple like a text file. A sql based interface would not have been possible; but then again is it there, really? The RMAN scripts could have been adapted to query and manipulate the ascii text file. Just my thoughts! Arup From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:24 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA72977;Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052BE7E; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 00:23:24.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D17A560:01C2B83E] Hot backup of the repository is fine as long as you can be assured that all files needed for a complete recovery are going to be available. Recover a hot backup of an RMAN repository to another server using imcomplete recovery, ( your RMAN server burned to a crisp, drives and all ), and you may or may not have a good repository. If the backup was made while the repository was in use for other backups, it may be in a logically inconsistent state from the RMAN perspective. Kind of like backing up OID. Could be that I'm wrong on this, but I don't have time to test it and come up with a definitive answer. Jared Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 01:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository Jared, I do. Actually, I back up the other master in the multi-master setup, in order to reduce load on the main database. But now that you have asked the question, I am beginning to wonder why I ever thought of that. Restoring will not restore the untransmitted transactions (it's asynch replication); so I will lose data and at the same time a little load on the main RMAN repository is not a bad idea either. Hmm...may be I'll switch to the main database for hot backup. The reason for hot backup is quite simple - it's easy to throw in another database into the hot backup system, rather than figure out a quiet period for cold backup when no other databases are being backed up using RMAN. HTH Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:30 PM I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared Ruth Gramolini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 11:04 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository The earlly versions of rman suggested that you put a 2nd recovery catalog in one of the databases you are using the real recovery catalog for. Then you use this to record the backups of the recovery catalog database. I never headed this advice, altho I do use a recovery catalog for all production, developement, and test databases that I back up. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:44 PM RE: RE : RMAN RepositoryIf I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? Exactly my thoughts. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository I agree Steve, and thanks for the info. Do you have any procedures to cover backup logic holes if you have to rebuild the controlfile for some reason (Ie.. maximum files reached etc) Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers or ... have procedure to account for that? Brian -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:07 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN repository. RE the "non-database solution," Oracle has already done that, it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who "wrote the book" on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, "I actually find the repository of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good." Use of the RMAN repository WAS "strongly recommended" by Oracle in the past but things have changed and that "truism" no longer holds. You can see this transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the 7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies should be, "Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to recover to and does it have access to the backup media?" IMHO, :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would never count out the profit motive. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars. Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database. Steve Orr -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Orr, Steve Importance: High The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared "Orr, Steve" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concern
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
The database containing RMAN repository does not need to be up 100%, only when the backup is going on restoring. Therefore, in many sites, DBAs can actually shutdown the database and take cold backup, just for convenience sake, if not anything else. Jared wanted to know if anybody used hot backup for the RMAN repository. Arup Nanda - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:00 PM Not having used RMAN since it's inception, I'm a little confused. Why couldn't you backup the DB hot, provided it wasn't using RMAN or at least that repository? Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository I do a cold backup of my repository daily. Replication of it is not a bad idea, as Arup mentioned, though I haven't tried it myself. Speaking of backing up the RMAN repository, does anyone back them up hot? Seems to me that would not be a good idea. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Arup Nanda INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE : RMAN Repository
reasonable to me. Why silly? It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas Netbackup catalog. It's just a different level of abstraction. Jared Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2003 08:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE : RMAN Repository If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles. Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use previous incarnations of the database for recovery; 2) use database stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement. Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me. Steve Orr-man for RMAN, Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
But if you must apply archive logs that are newer than the control file, it is an atypical recovery. I can't recall how to do that at the moment. This makes an integral piece of the database also an integral piece of what should be an external recovery mechanism. Makes about as much sense as putting the RMAN repository on the same server as your production database. Jared Joe Testa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 02:19 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE : RMAN Repository
Good point, Jared. An externally available repository is what is needed in the RMAN to make it complete; but the use of a full scale Oracle database for the repository makes it sort of complex. The repository then has to be protected at all costs. I generally use a multimaster replication setup, but use only one as a master. If, only if, Oracle had given us the ability to place a much simple setup for a repository, it would have been excellent. A repository does not contan that much of information anyway and certainly does not need the features like transaction processing, locking, etc. Case in point - Veritas backup needs a simple text file for its repository; BrightStor uses Ingres (a relational database). In case of a disaster, we have to restore the repository first in case of BrightStor (takes time) and only then the restore can start. In case of Veritas, the recovery of the repository is as simple as opening up in vi and typing the lines. Guess which one is simpler? Just a thought. Arup Nanda From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE : RMAN Repository Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:53:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com ([209.68.248.164]) by mc8-f34.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:18:32 -0800 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost)by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id PAA54658;Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 0052AD42; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:53:26 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 23:18:32.0856 (UTC) FILETIME=[43053180:01C2B76C] But if you must apply archive logs that are newer than the control file, it is an atypical recovery. I can't recall how to do that at the moment. This makes an integral piece of the database also an integral piece of what should be an external recovery mechanism. Makes about as much sense as putting the RMAN repository on the same server as your production database. Jared Joe Testa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 02:19 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: RE : RMAN Repository its a pain in the arse but you have to pull out the backed up controlfile(you did backup the controlfile, eh?) out of the rman backup piece(i've got a script that will do it automagically based on the filename pieces you pass it). then once the backed up controlfile is restored, then you can do normal recovery procedure. joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file? This doesn't sound very reasonable. Jared Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/08/2003 11:44 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE : RMAN Repository Joe, That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further. - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L snip Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries will be possible, truth or fiction? joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
