RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-24 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Mladen - Thanks for replying. And I thought formerly communist countries
would have had the socialist idea that nobody ever lost their job. How naive
of me I'm hoping that you are in a better job situation today.
Actually, I've always wondered if organizations in foreign companies
sometimes get shafted into unwittingly buying obsolete US products. I
formerly worked at Control Data. When it was on the verge of ceasing its
proprietary hardware business, they were still selling their largest
mainframes to existing customers that were trying to forestall the eventual
conversion, but no new US customers were coming forward. But the company
newsletters were trumpeting new foreign customers like the government of
Thailand, and I wondered how they would feel when the inevitable closing
came.
Just to keep this on Oracle, I thing that when we look at new
platforms, we need to look into the future. For example, many RISC
manufacturers have conceded that they can't compete against Intel's deep
pockets and are switching to the Itanium for the next generation. This may
presage their switch to Linux, since if they are all on the same hardware,
it doesn't make sense for them to maintain their own Unix version. Also,
with a lot of people in the industry counting on the success of the Itanium,
all bets are off if it flops. But as you point out, making hardware
recommendations doesn't come without a cost. Personally I'm going to
remember that moral for awhile, probably being less irritated when my
suggestions are ignored.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 2:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




> -Original Message-
> From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:23 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> Mladen - I'm sorry but I'm still struggling with the part of 
> your note that
> says "After all, I had to resign because I advised my boss to 
> buy MIPS R3300
> based DECSystems 5800 with  Ultrix. In slightly less then a 
> year . . ."
> Let me understand. You made a recommendation, which your boss 
> accepted. Your
> company received almost a year of usage, I assume it was 
> good, reliable
> service. 

Yes it was, but they have expected more then a year.They accused me
of spending money on the computer that was desupported in less then
a year. I was working in a communist country then ( ex Yuogoslavia)
and that's how it was.


>   First of all, I think you are better off not working for that
> company. 

So do I, but I still don't like when somebody sells me equipment
that gets despported in a year. DEC should have provided bug fixes
and an easy transition period. They haven't done that. I mean, I'm
driving 3 years old Hyundai and they have newer and better models now,
but I still don't have trash my car, do I? After all, I did receive
4 years of good service but they keep providing spare parts like AC,
transmission, gas pump and alike (I haven't needed them yet). I would
really hate if they told me that I will not be able to obtain spare
parts and that I have to buy a new Sonata, because this one is getting
desupported.
> Second, other that the salesman's opinion, why do 
> you say that was
> the wrong system? Were there other issues, possibly involving 
> his wife? I

Nope. The system was SMP, but Ultrix has never successfully done it. 
There were numerous bugs and DEC wasn't providing bug fixes any more.
Soon IDEAS, Oracle and ArcInfo desupported it and there was no software
for the box. 


> can only think of all the idiots that have been promoted for 
> suggesting the
> wrong system. Third, I'm kinda glad that nobody has asked my 
> opinion of what
> system should be purchased (well, aside from an Altos server 
> running a Z-80,
> but that worked out well, but again, NO upgrade path), and in 
> the future I'm
> going to be very careful not to give anybody the idea that 
> I'm offering an
> opinion unless it is clearly required by my job description.

Good principle which I've learned the hard way.
-- 
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-- 
Author: Gogala, Mladen
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Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-24 Thread Stephane Faroult

"Gogala, Mladen" wrote:
> > system should be purchased (well, aside from an Altos server
> > running a Z-80,
> > but that worked out well, but again, NO upgrade path), and in
> > the future I'm
> > going to be very careful not to give anybody the idea that
> > I'm offering an
> > opinion unless it is clearly required by my job description.
> 
> Good principle which I've learned the hard way.

Unless, that is, you are an external consultant, in which case you
invoice and run away.
When I still was a student, back in 1983, one of our teachers told us
that, as far as hardware was concerned, there only were IBM and DEC,
because you could then be certain that those two would be around in 5
years time, and much less so about the others. At this time, he was
right.
-- 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Software
-- 
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Author: Stephane Faroult
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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-24 Thread Gogala, Mladen



> -Original Message-
> From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:23 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> Mladen - I'm sorry but I'm still struggling with the part of 
> your note that
> says "After all, I had to resign because I advised my boss to 
> buy MIPS R3300
> based DECSystems 5800 with  Ultrix. In slightly less then a 
> year . . ."
> Let me understand. You made a recommendation, which your boss 
> accepted. Your
> company received almost a year of usage, I assume it was 
> good, reliable
> service. 

Yes it was, but they have expected more then a year.They accused me
of spending money on the computer that was desupported in less then
a year. I was working in a communist country then ( ex Yuogoslavia)
and that's how it was.


>   First of all, I think you are better off not working for that
> company. 

So do I, but I still don't like when somebody sells me equipment
that gets despported in a year. DEC should have provided bug fixes
and an easy transition period. They haven't done that. I mean, I'm
driving 3 years old Hyundai and they have newer and better models now,
but I still don't have trash my car, do I? After all, I did receive
4 years of good service but they keep providing spare parts like AC,
transmission, gas pump and alike (I haven't needed them yet). I would
really hate if they told me that I will not be able to obtain spare
parts and that I have to buy a new Sonata, because this one is getting
desupported.
> Second, other that the salesman's opinion, why do 
> you say that was
> the wrong system? Were there other issues, possibly involving 
> his wife? I

Nope. The system was SMP, but Ultrix has never successfully done it. 
There were numerous bugs and DEC wasn't providing bug fixes any more.
Soon IDEAS, Oracle and ArcInfo desupported it and there was no software
for the box. 


> can only think of all the idiots that have been promoted for 
> suggesting the
> wrong system. Third, I'm kinda glad that nobody has asked my 
> opinion of what
> system should be purchased (well, aside from an Altos server 
> running a Z-80,
> but that worked out well, but again, NO upgrade path), and in 
> the future I'm
> going to be very careful not to give anybody the idea that 
> I'm offering an
> opinion unless it is clearly required by my job description.

Good principle which I've learned the hard way.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Gogala, Mladen
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-24 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Mladen - I'm sorry but I'm still struggling with the part of your note that
says "After all, I had to resign because I advised my boss to buy MIPS R3300
based DECSystems 5800 with  Ultrix. In slightly less then a year . . ."
Let me understand. You made a recommendation, which your boss accepted. Your
company received almost a year of usage, I assume it was good, reliable
service. 
First of all, I think you are better off not working for that
company. Second, other that the salesman's opinion, why do you say that was
the wrong system? Were there other issues, possibly involving his wife? I
can only think of all the idiots that have been promoted for suggesting the
wrong system. Third, I'm kinda glad that nobody has asked my opinion of what
system should be purchased (well, aside from an Altos server running a Z-80,
but that worked out well, but again, NO upgrade path), and in the future I'm
going to be very careful not to give anybody the idea that I'm offering an
opinion unless it is clearly required by my job description.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



On 2002.05.23 22:43 "Brown, Pedr" wrote:
> OpenVMS is a rock solid plafform, we run 120+ 817 databases (spread
> across
> 20 nodes)  with very few platform issues. The downside is some
> functionality
> doesn't work too well (like MTS) and on the benchmarks we've done
> inhouse
> Oracle/Tru64 has always been roughly 2x as fast as Oracle/OpenVMS on
> the
> same hardware configuration.

That is because VMS has an old phylosophy of using CPU modes for 
separation
of privileged parts of the program and, partly, because of the logical 
names.
Logical names are implemented as devices. Turn on IO tracing with the 
"set watch"
command and you'll see that every access to a logical name table 
(process, batch, group,
system) causes an IO to happen. VMS is an old system with a huuuge 
kernel
which is better suited for TP-monitor type of applications then to an 
intense
myriad of small processes so characteristic for Unix.  The only way to 
beat unix is
not to use two-task architecture at all, because IO is extremely 
expensive on VMS
but to use so called single-task architecture (S:) which used to be 
available on VMS
long time ago. Also, turn off any OS caching (Files11 started doing 
that as of VMS 6)
as Oracle does it's own caching and VMS caching only interferes and 
wastes the necessary
memory. Also, make sure that swapper is not too active. You need to 
tune the memory
variables (FREELIM, BORROWLIMIT,GROWLIMIT) extremely carefully because 
an overactive
swapper can really kill a VMS machine. Also, tune the MPW (modified 
page writer)
and make sure that the non-paged pool is sufficiently large. I was able 
to beat
an HP 735 with HP-UX 7 with a MicroVAX 3900 with VMS 5.0 (a long, long 
time ago in a
galaxy far, far away when there was SQL*Net V1.0 which was started as a 
process called
"orasrv"). Im sure that modern Alpha machines can beat the crap out of 
OSF/1 microkernel
Unix. Consult an old lore by Clay Prestia and Bruce Ellis (where is 
Billy Bitsandbites
when youneed him?). I used to teach people how to tune VMS (I stopped 
using it when
the world was much younger and the version was OpenVMS 5.5-2) and I 
know that VMS
can be very, very highly tuned. If tuned properly, I'm sure it can beat 
any Unix on
a comparably fast HW.

> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, 24 May 2002 1:33
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and
> more
> importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far


Left OpenVMS for Irix 5.3 and never looked back. After all, I had to 
resign
because I advised my boss to buy MIPS R3300 based DECSystems 5800 with 
Ultrix.
In slightly less then a year, a DEC salesman stopped by and told my 
boss something
like:" No upgrade, no trade in, no transition, no support for Ultrix. 
Throw your
boxes away and buy the new and shiny alphas".  Aftere that, I was asked 
to resign.
I am actually glad that DEC has perished. They certainly deserved it! 
No more
OpenVMS for me. I'll stick with the mainstream. Unix rulez!
OpenVMS was a nice system, DEC products were beautifully engineered but 
their
marketing sucked big time. They fully deserved what happened to them.
-- 
Mladen Gogala
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Mladen Gogala


On 2002.05.23 22:43 "Brown, Pedr" wrote:
> OpenVMS is a rock solid plafform, we run 120+ 817 databases (spread
> across
> 20 nodes)  with very few platform issues. The downside is some
> functionality
> doesn't work too well (like MTS) and on the benchmarks we've done
> inhouse
> Oracle/Tru64 has always been roughly 2x as fast as Oracle/OpenVMS on
> the
> same hardware configuration.

That is because VMS has an old phylosophy of using CPU modes for 
separation
of privileged parts of the program and, partly, because of the logical 
names.
Logical names are implemented as devices. Turn on IO tracing with the 
"set watch"
command and you'll see that every access to a logical name table 
(process, batch, group,
system) causes an IO to happen. VMS is an old system with a huuuge 
kernel
which is better suited for TP-monitor type of applications then to an 
intense
myriad of small processes so characteristic for Unix.  The only way to 
beat unix is
not to use two-task architecture at all, because IO is extremely 
expensive on VMS
but to use so called single-task architecture (S:) which used to be 
available on VMS
long time ago. Also, turn off any OS caching (Files11 started doing 
that as of VMS 6)
as Oracle does it's own caching and VMS caching only interferes and 
wastes the necessary
memory. Also, make sure that swapper is not too active. You need to 
tune the memory
variables (FREELIM, BORROWLIMIT,GROWLIMIT) extremely carefully because 
an overactive
swapper can really kill a VMS machine. Also, tune the MPW (modified 
page writer)
and make sure that the non-paged pool is sufficiently large. I was able 
to beat
an HP 735 with HP-UX 7 with a MicroVAX 3900 with VMS 5.0 (a long, long 
time ago in a
galaxy far, far away when there was SQL*Net V1.0 which was started as a 
process called
"orasrv"). Im sure that modern Alpha machines can beat the crap out of 
OSF/1 microkernel
Unix. Consult an old lore by Clay Prestia and Bruce Ellis (where is 
Billy Bitsandbites
when youneed him?). I used to teach people how to tune VMS (I stopped 
using it when
the world was much younger and the version was OpenVMS 5.5-2) and I 
know that VMS
can be very, very highly tuned. If tuned properly, I'm sure it can beat 
any Unix on
a comparably fast HW.

> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, 24 May 2002 1:33
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and
> more
> importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far


Left OpenVMS for Irix 5.3 and never looked back. After all, I had to 
resign
because I advised my boss to buy MIPS R3300 based DECSystems 5800 with 
Ultrix.
In slightly less then a year, a DEC salesman stopped by and told my 
boss something
like:" No upgrade, no trade in, no transition, no support for Ultrix. 
Throw your
boxes away and buy the new and shiny alphas".  Aftere that, I was asked 
to resign.
I am actually glad that DEC has perished. They certainly deserved it! 
No more
OpenVMS for me. I'll stick with the mainstream. Unix rulez!
OpenVMS was a nice system, DEC products were beautifully engineered but 
their
marketing sucked big time. They fully deserved what happened to them.
-- 
Mladen Gogala
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Brown, Pedr

OpenVMS is a rock solid plafform, we run 120+ 817 databases (spread across
20 nodes)  with very few platform issues. The downside is some functionality
doesn't work too well (like MTS) and on the benchmarks we've done inhouse
Oracle/Tru64 has always been roughly 2x as fast as Oracle/OpenVMS on the
same hardware configuration.

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, 24 May 2002 1:33
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and more
importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far up as
8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing their own
install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY difficult to
create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can fool
it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does not
work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).

I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working with it since
v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to screw
up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been working in Unix for
four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult!  It's EASY!



VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and a
poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it and/or
manage the systems.  Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle 8.0.5
instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days.  And that
downtime was due to a network failure.  Five "9"s, baby, and then some!

Woah...once again, DBA need beer.

Enjoy!  :)

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> 
> 
> Hemant,
>   The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
> Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
> company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
> move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
> would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> platform/database combination. It would allow us to create 
> and implement
> browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
> 9iAS Suite of products.
>  For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
> budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Gene Sais

It is a new install, oracle 8.1.7, then 8.1.7.3 patch, then creation of db's.  It all 
working so far, only been 3 weeks :).

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 06:33PM >>>
I take it you haven't patched yet?  AFAIK, 8i+ patches work off the OUI
directory.  And I'm guessing that ORACLEINS doesn't populate anything in
there, which leads me to believe that the patch may not take.

Or does it???

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:54 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> Actually used on the console, dec cde, openvms 7.3 oracle 
> 8.1.7.3 and the gui failed, re-ran using oracleins it worked 
> like a charm.  I don't remember the error messages.  Oh well, 
> some work, some don't.
-- 
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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Baker, Barbara

I applied 11 additional patches to 8.1.7.3  (I also was unable to get OUI to
work, after spending hours trying.)

The patches went on nice and clean.  No requirement to use OUI.

Worked ok for me. . . .

Barb


> --
> From: Jesse, Rich[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:33 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> I take it you haven't patched yet?  AFAIK, 8i+ patches work off the OUI
> directory.  And I'm guessing that ORACLEINS doesn't populate anything in
> there, which leads me to believe that the patch may not take.
> 
> Or does it???
> 
> Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI
> USA
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:54 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> > 
> > 
> > Actually used on the console, dec cde, openvms 7.3 oracle 
> > 8.1.7.3 and the gui failed, re-ran using oracleins it worked 
> > like a charm.  I don't remember the error messages.  Oh well, 
> > some work, some don't.
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Jesse, Rich
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
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-- 
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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Jesse, Rich

I take it you haven't patched yet?  AFAIK, 8i+ patches work off the OUI
directory.  And I'm guessing that ORACLEINS doesn't populate anything in
there, which leads me to believe that the patch may not take.

Or does it???

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:54 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> Actually used on the console, dec cde, openvms 7.3 oracle 
> 8.1.7.3 and the gui failed, re-ran using oracleins it worked 
> like a charm.  I don't remember the error messages.  Oh well, 
> some work, some don't.
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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Gene Sais

Actually used on the console, dec cde, openvms 7.3 oracle 8.1.7.3 and the gui failed, 
re-ran using oracleins it worked like a charm.  I don't remember the error messages.  
Oh well, some work, some don't.

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 04:43PM >>>
Actually, the gui does work for VMS.  You need to use an emulator like
Exceed and initiate a DecWindows session on the server.  In actuality, you
become a server (ie your pc) for the session.

I used this for installing early versions of 8.0 and 8i and it worked quite
well.

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Web:www.compuware.com 

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, May 23, 2002 3:40 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

http://www.free-vms.org 

But I think they only support up to Oracle 8.1.7.  ;D

Of course, now that I made that little joke, I can't even get into the
website...

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:29 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> vms is a great os, if only dec ported it to the intel chip, 
> then ms would not be what it is today.  ohh well, that's 
> history.  for installs on vms use oracleins not the gui 
> installer.  they give you 2 choices, guess b/c the gui 
> doesn't work :).  wish they would bring back orainst /c for unix!
> 
> gene
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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Karniotis, Stephen

Actually, the gui does work for VMS.  You need to use an emulator like
Exceed and initiate a DecWindows session on the server.  In actuality, you
become a server (ie your pc) for the session.

I used this for installing early versions of 8.0 and 8i and it worked quite
well.

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:www.compuware.com

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, May 23, 2002 3:40 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

http://www.free-vms.org

But I think they only support up to Oracle 8.1.7.  ;D

Of course, now that I made that little joke, I can't even get into the
website...

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:29 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> vms is a great os, if only dec ported it to the intel chip, 
> then ms would not be what it is today.  ohh well, that's 
> history.  for installs on vms use oracleins not the gui 
> installer.  they give you 2 choices, guess b/c the gui 
> doesn't work :).  wish they would bring back orainst /c for unix!
> 
> gene
-- 
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-- 
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contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it. 

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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Gene Sais

hmmm, eve is the best editor and lets not forget show/process/cont/id=.  vms on 
intel.  i wonder if it will take off.

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 03:35PM >>>
Do this:
$define/system sys$error nla0:  
and everything will be working fine. Those pesky error messages will be
gone. Just kidding. There is, however an open source project called
"FreeVMS" 
which wants to do exactly that: to create a free version of OpenVMS for PCs,
much like Linux. The home page of the project is at:
http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html 
There is also a commercial company providing a wonderfull emulation for
various
Unix systems. They ported DCL, backup and, yes, my favorite "GOLD-PF6" EDT
editor.
EVE (Extended VAX Editor) was by far the best editor I've ever worked with.
Utilities like monitor (mon modes, mod disk/item=queue, mon page, mon pool) 
and backup (backup/ignore=interlock), help system and sysgen are unsurpassed
peaks of computing and I've never seen anything even remotely as practical
as an OpenVMS system. Even tricks of the trade, like "set watch" command
were asthetically nice.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 2:58 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> 
> VMS uses logicals as much as Unix uses environment variables. 
>  I use vms logicals and unix env variables in my db create 
> scripts.  VMS logicals also work for init.ora params (eg. 
> control_files) whereas in Unix, you must spell it out.
> 
> gene
> *used vms b4 dos was around :)*
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 12:33PM >>>
> I can add to Jesse's comments.  VMS has always been the 
> bastard of Oracle
> Platforms even though it was written for VMS initially.  
> Remember that Larry
> first wrote Oracle on the VMS platform.
> 
> The installation process is actually very clean as compared 
> to many other
> environments. Yes, it does require additional knowledge of 
> how logicals and
> symbols function, and yes OFA does not "truly" exist within 
> the spectrum as
> it does on Unix.   However, OFA does exist within the OpenVMS 
> environment
> and is the responsibility of the DBA to exercise the 
> implementation of it.
> Thus, only war-torn DBAs understand the VMS environment of 
> Oracle and have a
> relatively easy time implementing on this platform.
> 
> As far as logicals within the database, Jesse is correct in 
> that Oracle is
> not very friendly with them if you want datafiles to use 
> logicals.  However,
> if you define the logicals as "terminal, rooted" logicals, 
> Oracle does not
> translate them.  In fact, this is the proper way to define 
> data files versus
> using the device name.  What happens if you have to move the 
> device from
> DSA10 to DSA100, but the disk is still the same?  It is 
> simply moving to
> another controller.  You are screwed if you use the physical 
> device name.
> If you use logicals, all works well.
> 
> Jesse is right.  VMS is the strongest and most robust 
> platform Oracle runs
> on.  If not, then why did Oracle buy RDB and use Compaq 
> (sorry DEC) for the
> clustering technology for 9i RAC?  Contradict that one and 
> you should open
> up your own database company.
> 
> Enough ranting.  Become familiar with Open VMS and all will be well.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Stephen P. Karniotis
> Product Architect
> Compuware Corporation
> Direct:   (248) 865-4350
> Mobile:   (248) 408-2918
> Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Web:  www.compuware.com 
> 
>  -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:33 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> As a side note, please please please become familiar with 
> OpenVMS and more
> importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least 
> as far up as
> 8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by 
> bastardizing their own
> install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY 
> difficult to
> create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
> Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although 
> you can fool
> it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it 
> simply does not
> work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).
> 
> I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working 
> with it since
> v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
> reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms 
> te

RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Gene Sais

try http://www.freevms.org/

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 03:40PM >>>
http://www.free-vms.org 

But I think they only support up to Oracle 8.1.7.  ;D

Of course, now that I made that little joke, I can't even get into the
website...

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:29 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> vms is a great os, if only dec ported it to the intel chip, 
> then ms would not be what it is today.  ohh well, that's 
> history.  for installs on vms use oracleins not the gui 
> installer.  they give you 2 choices, guess b/c the gui 
> doesn't work :).  wish they would bring back orainst /c for unix!
> 
> gene
-- 
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-- 
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

--
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--
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Jesse, Rich

http://www.free-vms.org

But I think they only support up to Oracle 8.1.7.  ;D

Of course, now that I made that little joke, I can't even get into the
website...

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:29 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> vms is a great os, if only dec ported it to the intel chip, 
> then ms would not be what it is today.  ohh well, that's 
> history.  for installs on vms use oracleins not the gui 
> installer.  they give you 2 choices, guess b/c the gui 
> doesn't work :).  wish they would bring back orainst /c for unix!
> 
> gene
-- 
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-- 
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Gogala, Mladen

Do this:
$define/system sys$error nla0:  
and everything will be working fine. Those pesky error messages will be
gone. Just kidding. There is, however an open source project called
"FreeVMS" 
which wants to do exactly that: to create a free version of OpenVMS for PCs,
much like Linux. The home page of the project is at:
http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html
There is also a commercial company providing a wonderfull emulation for
various
Unix systems. They ported DCL, backup and, yes, my favorite "GOLD-PF6" EDT
editor.
EVE (Extended VAX Editor) was by far the best editor I've ever worked with.
Utilities like monitor (mon modes, mod disk/item=queue, mon page, mon pool) 
and backup (backup/ignore=interlock), help system and sysgen are unsurpassed
peaks of computing and I've never seen anything even remotely as practical
as an OpenVMS system. Even tricks of the trade, like "set watch" command
were asthetically nice.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 2:58 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> 
> 
> VMS uses logicals as much as Unix uses environment variables. 
>  I use vms logicals and unix env variables in my db create 
> scripts.  VMS logicals also work for init.ora params (eg. 
> control_files) whereas in Unix, you must spell it out.
> 
> gene
> *used vms b4 dos was around :)*
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 12:33PM >>>
> I can add to Jesse's comments.  VMS has always been the 
> bastard of Oracle
> Platforms even though it was written for VMS initially.  
> Remember that Larry
> first wrote Oracle on the VMS platform.
> 
> The installation process is actually very clean as compared 
> to many other
> environments. Yes, it does require additional knowledge of 
> how logicals and
> symbols function, and yes OFA does not "truly" exist within 
> the spectrum as
> it does on Unix.   However, OFA does exist within the OpenVMS 
> environment
> and is the responsibility of the DBA to exercise the 
> implementation of it.
> Thus, only war-torn DBAs understand the VMS environment of 
> Oracle and have a
> relatively easy time implementing on this platform.
> 
> As far as logicals within the database, Jesse is correct in 
> that Oracle is
> not very friendly with them if you want datafiles to use 
> logicals.  However,
> if you define the logicals as "terminal, rooted" logicals, 
> Oracle does not
> translate them.  In fact, this is the proper way to define 
> data files versus
> using the device name.  What happens if you have to move the 
> device from
> DSA10 to DSA100, but the disk is still the same?  It is 
> simply moving to
> another controller.  You are screwed if you use the physical 
> device name.
> If you use logicals, all works well.
> 
> Jesse is right.  VMS is the strongest and most robust 
> platform Oracle runs
> on.  If not, then why did Oracle buy RDB and use Compaq 
> (sorry DEC) for the
> clustering technology for 9i RAC?  Contradict that one and 
> you should open
> up your own database company.
> 
> Enough ranting.  Become familiar with Open VMS and all will be well.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Stephen P. Karniotis
> Product Architect
> Compuware Corporation
> Direct:   (248) 865-4350
> Mobile:   (248) 408-2918
> Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Web:  www.compuware.com 
> 
>  -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:33 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> As a side note, please please please become familiar with 
> OpenVMS and more
> importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least 
> as far up as
> 8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by 
> bastardizing their own
> install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY 
> difficult to
> create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
> Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although 
> you can fool
> it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it 
> simply does not
> work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).
> 
> I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working 
> with it since
> v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
> reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms 
> tend to screw
> up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been 
> working in Unix for
> four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
> U

Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread Gene Sais

Ron - I have my VMS env set similar to my unix env.  I use vms symbols to match unix 
aliae's/cmds, vms logicals to match unix env variables, vms dcl scripts to match unix 
ksh scripts.  Even have a crontab dcl script that works much like unix cron (well 
almost :)).  I have 1 dcl script for all batch scheduling.  VMS is fun, just wish 
there were more companies using it.  Strange to see companies considering to start 
using VMS.  Usually they go w/ W2K or Unix.  Old oracle licensing is cheaper on VMS.  

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 02:32PM >>>
Hemant,
  Being an "ol" unix admin I would like very much to use Tru64 but we
have a lot of applications written for OpenVMS that would have to be
converted and then there would be the issue of sysadmin training or hire
and licensing issues and costs. These all cost $$$ and we are an
institution that has to return a minimum sales % to the winner and the
schooling endeavors.  Besides I think it will be exiting and challenging
to learn a new system. 
Ron

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 12:28PM >>>

The bane of trying to keep up with technology.
But why OpenVMS and not Tru64, then.
We have a large number of Tru64 Oracle Databases
(we do have OpenVMSs for Promis databases
used in manufacturing, I believe).

Hemant K Chitale

-- 
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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Gene Sais


VMS uses logicals as much as Unix uses environment variables.  I use vms logicals and 
unix env variables in my db create scripts.  VMS logicals also work for init.ora 
params (eg. control_files) whereas in Unix, you must spell it out.

gene
*used vms b4 dos was around :)*

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 12:33PM >>>
I can add to Jesse's comments.  VMS has always been the bastard of Oracle
Platforms even though it was written for VMS initially.  Remember that Larry
first wrote Oracle on the VMS platform.

The installation process is actually very clean as compared to many other
environments. Yes, it does require additional knowledge of how logicals and
symbols function, and yes OFA does not "truly" exist within the spectrum as
it does on Unix.   However, OFA does exist within the OpenVMS environment
and is the responsibility of the DBA to exercise the implementation of it.
Thus, only war-torn DBAs understand the VMS environment of Oracle and have a
relatively easy time implementing on this platform.

As far as logicals within the database, Jesse is correct in that Oracle is
not very friendly with them if you want datafiles to use logicals.  However,
if you define the logicals as "terminal, rooted" logicals, Oracle does not
translate them.  In fact, this is the proper way to define data files versus
using the device name.  What happens if you have to move the device from
DSA10 to DSA100, but the disk is still the same?  It is simply moving to
another controller.  You are screwed if you use the physical device name.
If you use logicals, all works well.

Jesse is right.  VMS is the strongest and most robust platform Oracle runs
on.  If not, then why did Oracle buy RDB and use Compaq (sorry DEC) for the
clustering technology for 9i RAC?  Contradict that one and you should open
up your own database company.

Enough ranting.  Become familiar with Open VMS and all will be well.

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Web:www.compuware.com 

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:33 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:        Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and more
importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far up as
8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing their own
install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY difficult to
create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can fool
it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does not
work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).

I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working with it since
v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to screw
up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been working in Unix for
four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult!  It's EASY!



VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and a
poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it and/or
manage the systems.  Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle 8.0.5
instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days.  And that
downtime was due to a network failure.  Five "9"s, baby, and then some!

Woah...once again, DBA need beer.

Enjoy!  :)

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> 
> 
> Hemant,
>   The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
> Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
> company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
> move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
> would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> platform/database combination. It would allow us to create 
> and implement
> browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
> 9iAS Suite of products.
>  For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
> budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
-- 
Please s

RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Ron Rogers

Thanks, Barb.
 From the traffic on this issue I think that there is quite a few VMS
users on the list. They have been quiet and do not generate a lot of
traffic. Does this mean that I have to watch all of the other traffic
and think to myself " why not convert to VMS and not have the
problems?"
 Just rambling
Ron
ROR mô¿ôm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 01:13PM >>>
Ron:
There's a list at
iouga-vms-l

The traffic is very-very-very-very light. However, when I've needed
help,
the responses have been exceptional.

Good luck!
Barb


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Ron Rogers
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread Ron Rogers

Hemant,
  Being an "ol" unix admin I would like very much to use Tru64 but we
have a lot of applications written for OpenVMS that would have to be
converted and then there would be the issue of sysadmin training or hire
and licensing issues and costs. These all cost $$$ and we are an
institution that has to return a minimum sales % to the winner and the
schooling endeavors.  Besides I think it will be exiting and challenging
to learn a new system. 
Ron

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 12:28PM >>>

The bane of trying to keep up with technology.
But why OpenVMS and not Tru64, then.
We have a large number of Tru64 Oracle Databases
(we do have OpenVMSs for Promis databases
used in manufacturing, I believe).

Hemant K Chitale

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Ron Rogers
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



RE: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Hermat - We are on Tru64 and I couldn't be more pleased. However, I believe
that HP/Compaq has decided to eventually withdraw Tru64. My guess is that is
so they can support HPUX. However, they were pretty clear that OpenVMS would
continue. My guess is that Ron is hinting that there are other reasons to
move to VMS at his company. Just sign me as "learning Solaris".
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



The bane of trying to keep up with technology.
But why OpenVMS and not Tru64, then.
We have a large number of Tru64 Oracle Databases
(we do have OpenVMSs for Promis databases
used in manufacturing, I believe).

Hemant K Chitale

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 May, 2002 11:03 PM


Hemant,
  The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
platform/database combination. It would allow us to create and implement
browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
9iAS Suite of products.
 For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 09:38AM >>>

An upgrade wouldn't cost anything.  It would be free
as part of your support contract.

Hemant K Chitale

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 May, 2002 2:41 AM


Kevin,
 I appreciate your testing efforts. Now to convince the bean-counters
to upgrate to 9i.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:08PM >>>
I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It took a whopping
0.25
seconds to complete.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set
up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will
really
help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL>

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Baker, Barbara

Ron:
There's a list at
iouga-vms-l

The traffic is very-very-very-very light. However, when I've needed help,
the responses have been exceptional.

Good luck!
Barb

> --
> From: Ron Rogers[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:33 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
> 
> Rich,
>   I thank you for the heads up. I have read the install and release
> notes for Oracle on OpenVMS and will approach with a lot of caution. I
> am very familiar with the Unix world commands and expected actions but,
> the OpenVMS commands I have to learn and try to understand before I
> attempt the install. We have 2 boxes and 1 disk farm to use. One box
> will be the development server and the other server will be production.
> I have the advantage of learning with the development install first to
> correct any errors in my install.
>  Do you have any suggested links or doc's that would be of help or
> guidance?
> Thanks,
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 11:33AM >>>
> As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and
> more
> importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far up
> as
> 8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing
> their own
> install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY difficult
> to
> create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
> Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can
> fool
> it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does
> not
> work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).
> 
> I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working with it
> since
> v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
> reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to
> screw
> up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been working in Unix
> for
> four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
> Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult!  It's EASY!
> 
> 
> 
> VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and
> a
> poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it
> and/or
> manage the systems.  Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle
> 8.0.5
> instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days.  And
> that
> downtime was due to a network failure.  Five "9"s, baby, and then
> some!
> 
> Woah...once again, DBA need beer.
> 
> Enjoy!  :)
> 
> Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex,
> WI USA
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> > 
> > 
> > Hemant,
> >   The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from
> a
> > Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot
> of
> > company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for
> the
> > move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> > issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations.
> I
> > would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> > platform/database combination. It would allow us to create 
> > and implement
> > browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use
> the
> > 9iAS Suite of products.
> >  For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in
> the
> > budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> > Ron
> > ROR mª¿ªm
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
> --
> Author: Jesse, Rich
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for othe

RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Karniotis, Stephen

I can add to Jesse's comments.  VMS has always been the bastard of Oracle
Platforms even though it was written for VMS initially.  Remember that Larry
first wrote Oracle on the VMS platform.

The installation process is actually very clean as compared to many other
environments. Yes, it does require additional knowledge of how logicals and
symbols function, and yes OFA does not "truly" exist within the spectrum as
it does on Unix.   However, OFA does exist within the OpenVMS environment
and is the responsibility of the DBA to exercise the implementation of it.
Thus, only war-torn DBAs understand the VMS environment of Oracle and have a
relatively easy time implementing on this platform.

As far as logicals within the database, Jesse is correct in that Oracle is
not very friendly with them if you want datafiles to use logicals.  However,
if you define the logicals as "terminal, rooted" logicals, Oracle does not
translate them.  In fact, this is the proper way to define data files versus
using the device name.  What happens if you have to move the device from
DSA10 to DSA100, but the disk is still the same?  It is simply moving to
another controller.  You are screwed if you use the physical device name.
If you use logicals, all works well.

Jesse is right.  VMS is the strongest and most robust platform Oracle runs
on.  If not, then why did Oracle buy RDB and use Compaq (sorry DEC) for the
clustering technology for 9i RAC?  Contradict that one and you should open
up your own database company.

Enough ranting.  Become familiar with Open VMS and all will be well.

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:www.compuware.com

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:33 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and more
importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far up as
8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing their own
install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY difficult to
create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can fool
it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does not
work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).

I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working with it since
v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to screw
up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been working in Unix for
four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult!  It's EASY!



VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and a
poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it and/or
manage the systems.  Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle 8.0.5
instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days.  And that
downtime was due to a network failure.  Five "9"s, baby, and then some!

Woah...once again, DBA need beer.

Enjoy!  :)

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> 
> 
> Hemant,
>   The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
> Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
> company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
> move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
> would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> platform/database combination. It would allow us to create 
> and implement
> browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
> 9iAS Suite of products.
>  For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
> budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from thi

Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Gene Sais

vms is a great os, if only dec ported it to the intel chip, then ms would not be what 
it is today.  ohh well, that's history.  for installs on vms use oracleins not the gui 
installer.  they give you 2 choices, guess b/c the gui doesn't work :).  wish they 
would bring back orainst /c for unix!

gene


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 11:33AM >>>
As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and more
importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far up as
8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing their own
install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY difficult to
create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can fool
it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does not
work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).

I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working with it since
v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to screw
up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been working in Unix for
four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult!  It's EASY!



VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and a
poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it and/or
manage the systems.  Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle 8.0.5
instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days.  And that
downtime was due to a network failure.  Five "9"s, baby, and then some!

Woah...once again, DBA need beer.

Enjoy!  :)

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> 
> 
> Hemant,
>   The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
> Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
> company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
> move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
> would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> platform/database combination. It would allow us to create 
> and implement
> browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
> 9iAS Suite of products.
>  For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
> budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
--
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Gene Sais
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread Hemant K Chitale


The bane of trying to keep up with technology.
But why OpenVMS and not Tru64, then.
We have a large number of Tru64 Oracle Databases
(we do have OpenVMSs for Promis databases
used in manufacturing, I believe).

Hemant K Chitale

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 May, 2002 11:03 PM


Hemant,
  The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
platform/database combination. It would allow us to create and implement
browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
9iAS Suite of products.
 For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 09:38AM >>>

An upgrade wouldn't cost anything.  It would be free
as part of your support contract.

Hemant K Chitale

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 May, 2002 2:41 AM


Kevin,
 I appreciate your testing efforts. Now to convince the bean-counters
to upgrate to 9i.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:08PM >>>
I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It took a whopping
0.25
seconds to complete.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set
up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will
really
help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL>

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Ron Rogers

Rich,
  I thank you for the heads up. I have read the install and release
notes for Oracle on OpenVMS and will approach with a lot of caution. I
am very familiar with the Unix world commands and expected actions but,
the OpenVMS commands I have to learn and try to understand before I
attempt the install. We have 2 boxes and 1 disk farm to use. One box
will be the development server and the other server will be production.
I have the advantage of learning with the development install first to
correct any errors in my install.
 Do you have any suggested links or doc's that would be of help or
guidance?
Thanks,
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 11:33AM >>>
As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and
more
importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far up
as
8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing
their own
install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY difficult
to
create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can
fool
it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does
not
work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).

I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working with it
since
v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to
screw
up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been working in Unix
for
four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult!  It's EASY!



VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and
a
poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it
and/or
manage the systems.  Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle
8.0.5
instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days.  And
that
downtime was due to a network failure.  Five "9"s, baby, and then
some!

Woah...once again, DBA need beer.

Enjoy!  :)

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex,
WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> 
> 
> Hemant,
>   The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from
a
> Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot
of
> company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for
the
> move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations.
I
> would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> platform/database combination. It would allow us to create 
> and implement
> browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use
the
> 9iAS Suite of products.
>  For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in
the
> budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
--
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--
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

2002-05-23 Thread Jesse, Rich

As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and more
importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this.  At least as far up as
8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing their own
install on OpenVMS.  There is no OFA on OpenVMS.  It is VERY difficult to
create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can fool
it).  And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does not
work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).

I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS.  I've been working with it since
v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares.  HOWEVER, for some unknown
reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to screw
up their VMS installs.  I have no idea why.  I've been working in Unix for
four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult!  It's EASY!



VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and a
poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it and/or
manage the systems.  Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle 8.0.5
instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days.  And that
downtime was due to a network failure.  Five "9"s, baby, and then some!

Woah...once again, DBA need beer.

Enjoy!  :)

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> 
> 
> Hemant,
>   The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
> Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
> company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
> move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
> would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> platform/database combination. It would allow us to create 
> and implement
> browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
> 9iAS Suite of products.
>  For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
> budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread Ron Rogers

Hemant,
  The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server.  There are a lot of
company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
platform/database combination. It would allow us to create and implement
browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
9iAS Suite of products.
 For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/23/02 09:38AM >>>

An upgrade wouldn't cost anything.  It would be free
as part of your support contract.

Hemant K Chitale

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 May, 2002 2:41 AM


Kevin,
 I appreciate your testing efforts. Now to convince the bean-counters
to upgrate to 9i.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:08PM >>>
I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It took a whopping
0.25
seconds to complete.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set
up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will
really
help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL>

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant
Confidential
and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on
it is prohibited and may be unlawful.



The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of
any
virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This
message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
reading the
message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses
and
other defects. Trilegiant Corporation is not liable for any loss or
damage
arising in any way from this message or its attachments.

--
--


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
--
Author: Toepke, Kevin M
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Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread Hemant K Chitale


An upgrade wouldn't cost anything.  It would be free
as part of your support contract.

Hemant K Chitale

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 May, 2002 2:41 AM


Kevin,
 I appreciate your testing efforts. Now to convince the bean-counters
to upgrate to 9i.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:08PM >>>
I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It took a whopping
0.25
seconds to complete.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set
up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will
really
help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL>

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant
Confidential
and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on
it is prohibited and may be unlawful.



The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of
any
virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This
message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
reading the
message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses
and
other defects. Trilegiant Corporation is not liable for any loss or
damage
arising in any way from this message or its attachments.




--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread Yechiel Adar

Upgrade to 9iR2 today.
Rename column does not work in 9.0.1.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:30 PM


> If those times are right... its a functionality you
> should not live without, its a direct money saver.
> Upgrade to 9i today!
>
> hats off to Oracle marketing... "if and when the
> database sales lose traction... we will release RENAME
> COLUMN"... and 20 years later... here it is.
>
> Keith
>
> Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 10:41:32 -0800
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego,
> California
>
>
> Kevin,
>  I appreciate your testing efforts. Now to convince
> the bean-counters
> to upgrate to 9i.
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:08PM >>>
> I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It
> took a whopping
> 0.25
> seconds to complete.
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Kevin,
>  Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do
> not have 9i set
> up
> yet. If it works as you describe with data in the
> column it will
> really
> help with the multi million row tables that "they"
> want to rename a
> column  after a release of a new lotto game.
> thanks,
> for the test and update.
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
> Summary: it works!
>
> SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;
>
> BANNER
> 
> Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 -
> Production
> PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
> TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
>
> SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name
> VARCHAR2(40));
>
> Table created.
>
> SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name
> to right_name;
>
> Table altered.
>
> SQL> desc test_table;
>  Name  Null?
> Type
>  - 
> 
>  RIGHT_NAME
> VARCHAR2(40)
>
> SQL>
>
> Kevin Toepke
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> http://launch.yahoo.com
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Keith Peterson
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Yechiel Adar
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-23 Thread Don Granaman

To steal a quote from Matt Adam's white board (sorry Matt!):

"You gotta stop thinking logically, and start thinking Oracley" - Jim Droppa

Don Granaman
[OraSaurus]

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 2:00 PM


Rachel,
 I agree with your statement but since you used the word "logically" ,
I questioned the workings of Oracle and why or how they do things.
[...]
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Don Granaman
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



RE: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Keith Peterson

If those times are right... its a functionality you
should not live without, its a direct money saver. 
Upgrade to 9i today!

hats off to Oracle marketing... "if and when the
database sales lose traction... we will release RENAME
COLUMN"... and 20 years later... here it is.

Keith

Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 10:41:32 -0800 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego,
California 
 

Kevin,
 I appreciate your testing efforts. Now to convince
the bean-counters
to upgrate to 9i.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:08PM >>>
I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It
took a whopping
0.25
seconds to complete.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do
not have 9i set
up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the
column it will
really
help with the multi million row tables that "they"
want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 -
Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name
VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name
to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?   
Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME
VARCHAR2(40)

SQL> 

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



__
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Keith Peterson
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Ron Rogers

Rachel,
 I agree with your statement but since you used the word "logically" ,
I questioned the workings of Oracle and why or how they do things. If I
remember correctly you had to make a column "unusable" before you could
drop it. It didn't make sense to me. Why not just drop the column and
clean the data up at the next export/import/reorg or leave the data in
the table and ignore the space used but not seen.
 There have been a few tips and hints listed on this list about making
changes in the Oracle tables to accomplish desired tasks that were not
supported by Oracle. Perhaps this is such an item that Oracle has
decided to support after testing. I heard rumors of a future publication
that is based on the "tips and hints" that accomplish what Oracle can
not do with normal commands, but they work properly. Perhaps such a
publication will help convince Oracle to test and incorporate them in
release 10.x.
 Thanks,
Ron
ROR mô¿ôm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:25PM >>>
Ron,

I can't test it here, but logically it seems it shouldn't matter if
there is data in the column or not as column_name is NOT stored within
the table itself but within the data dictionary.

Rachel

--- Ron Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kevin,
>  Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set
> up
> yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will
> really
> help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
> column  after a release of a new lotto game.
> thanks,
> for the test and update.
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
> Summary: it works!
> 
> SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;
> 
> BANNER
> 
> Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
> TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> 
> SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));
> 
> Table created.
> 
> SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;
> 
> Table altered.
> 
> SQL> desc test_table;
>  Name  Null?Type
>  - 
> 
>  RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)
> 
> SQL> 
> 
> Kevin Toepke
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>

>

> 
> The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant
> Confidential
> and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
> addressee(s).
> Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
> unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on
> it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
>

>

> 
> The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free
of
> any
> virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This
> message and
> its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
> reading the
> message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
> responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about
> viruses
> and
> other defects. Trilegiant Corporation is not liable for any loss or
> damage
> arising in any way from this message or its attachments.
>

>

> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
> -- 
> Author: Toepke, Kevin M
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
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> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
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> To REMOVE yourself from this mai

RE: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Ron Rogers

Kevin,
 I appreciate your testing efforts. Now to convince the bean-counters
to upgrate to 9i.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 02:08PM >>>
I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It took a whopping
0.25
seconds to complete.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set
up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will
really
help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL> 

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant
Confidential
and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
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reliance on
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any
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message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
reading the
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-- 
Author: Toepke, Kevin M
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--
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City

Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Rachel Carmichael

Ron,

I can't test it here, but logically it seems it shouldn't matter if
there is data in the column or not as column_name is NOT stored within
the table itself but within the data dictionary.

Rachel

--- Ron Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kevin,
>  Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set
> up
> yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will
> really
> help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
> column  after a release of a new lotto game.
> thanks,
> for the test and update.
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
> Summary: it works!
> 
> SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;
> 
> BANNER
> 
> Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
> TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
> 
> SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));
> 
> Table created.
> 
> SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;
> 
> Table altered.
> 
> SQL> desc test_table;
>  Name  Null?Type
>  - 
> 
>  RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)
> 
> SQL> 
> 
> Kevin Toepke
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>

>

> 
> The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant
> Confidential
> and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
> addressee(s).
> Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
> unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on
> it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
>

>

> 
> The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of
> any
> virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This
> message and
> its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
> reading the
> message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
> responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about
> viruses
> and
> other defects. Trilegiant Corporation is not liable for any loss or
> damage
> arising in any way from this message or its attachments.
>

>

> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
> -- 
> Author: Toepke, Kevin M
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Ron Rogers
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


__
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LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
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-- 
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RE: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Toepke, Kevin M

I reran my test. with 250,000 rows in the table. It took a whopping 0.25
seconds to complete.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will really
help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL> 

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant
Confidential
and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on
it is prohibited and may be unlawful.



The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of
any
virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This
message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
reading the
message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses
and
other defects. Trilegiant Corporation is not liable for any loss or
damage
arising in any way from this message or its attachments.




-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Toepke, Kevin M
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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-- 
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Keith Peterson

wish this had come about 20 years ago, as it would
have saved us approx. 2 man years of dev. time
(conservative estimate).

Considering all 9i enhancements... this feature should
weigh in at well over 25%

Keith

Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 06:38:37 -0800 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego,
California 
 
 
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 -
Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name
VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name
to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?   
Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME
VARCHAR2(40)

SQL> 

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



__
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Keith Peterson
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



Re: Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Ron Rogers

Kevin,
 Yes but does it work with data in the column?, I do not have 9i set up
yet. If it works as you describe with data in the column it will really
help with the multi million row tables that "they" want to rename a
column  after a release of a new lotto game.
thanks,
for the test and update.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/22/02 10:38AM >>>
Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL> 

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant
Confidential
and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on
it is prohibited and may be unlawful.



The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of
any
virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This
message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By
reading the
message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses
and
other defects. Trilegiant Corporation is not liable for any loss or
damage
arising in any way from this message or its attachments.




-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Toepke, Kevin M
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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--
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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



Rename Column in 9iR2

2002-05-22 Thread Toepke, Kevin M

Summary: it works!

SQL> SELECT * FROM v$version;

BANNER

Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
PL/SQL Release 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
CORE9.2.0.1.0   Production
TNS for Solaris: Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production
NLSRTL Version 9.2.0.1.0 - Production

SQL> create table test_table (wrong_name VARCHAR2(40));

Table created.

SQL> alter table test_table rename column wrong_name to right_name;

Table altered.

SQL> desc test_table;
 Name  Null?Type
 - 

 RIGHT_NAME VARCHAR2(40)

SQL> 

Kevin Toepke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



The information in this electronic mail message is Trilegiant Confidential
and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s).
Access to this Internet electronic mail message by anyone else is
unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on
it is prohibited and may be unlawful.



The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any
virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and
its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the
message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full
responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and
other defects. Trilegiant Corporation is not liable for any loss or damage
arising in any way from this message or its attachments.




-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Toepke, Kevin M
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