Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
On Monday 23 April 2001 09:53, Eric D. Pierce wrote: > > I guess I've been under the impression that a good design > process would be done with proper methods, including having > (legitimately tested) performance metrics. > > Are you saying that is an overly idealistic approach for most > "real world" situations? :) Would be nice to work in an environment where that was allowed. :) > I'll be migrating a departmental database to Oracle8/9 on NT > over the next 6 months or so. It is in severe need of > normalization. I'll start with a highly normalized model, > and see how it goes. Let us know how it goes. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
On 20 Apr 2001, at 19:15, Jared Still wrote: Date sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:15:20 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Well, why would you *not* want to denormalize during design? It seems > > to me that (theoretically) ***if*** you are doing "structured" > > denormalization correctly, that is exactly when you would want to do > > it, no? > > Unless you detect a performance problem, why denormalize at all? > > We always have folks that want to denormalize because they *think* > there will be a performance problem. This usually occurs because > they think that joining 3 or 4 tables will be too slow. I guess I've been under the impression that a good design process would be done with proper methods, including having (legitimately tested) performance metrics. Are you saying that is an overly idealistic approach for most "real world" situations? :) ... > ... Only one table was highly denormalized, and > that was nobody could figure out a reasonable way to normalize it. Not sure > if I could yet. :) Well, as i said before, my understanding is that it was "unnormalized", which is different from "denormalized". > > This may be different for really large OLTP databases with a very high number > of users, but I've never had the privilege of working on one that big. > e.g. Amazon.com, etc. ok. cool. last time I really paid any attention to this topic was around Oracle v6. :) I'll be migrating a departmental database to Oracle8/9 on NT over the next 6 months or so. It is in severe need of normalization. I'll start with a highly normalized model, and see how it goes. ep -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: true grits / Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
> > I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely > > normalized database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if > > we found it necessary for some reason. > > > > We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started > > doing physical modeling. Sigh. > > Well, why would you *not* want to denormalize during design? It seems > to me that (theoretically) ***if*** you are doing "structured" > denormalization correctly, that is exactly when you would want to do > it, no? Unless you detect a performance problem, why denormalize at all? We always have folks that want to denormalize because they *think* there will be a performance problem. This usually occurs because they think that joining 3 or 4 tables will be too slow. We're talking strictly OLTP databases here. Joins for OLTP are usually quite fast, and performance problems won't be fixed by denormalizing. I once worked on a database that had to do a number of rather complex joins in an OLTP database, with a hard limit of 9 seconds for the response time. That 9 seconds was from the time a pharmacist hit a key on a terminal in the pharmacy. During that 9 seconds the data had to be routed to a clearinghouse in Atlanta Georgia, sent to us, used to adjudicate a claim and send a response back to the pharmacy through the same network. The average adjudication was 1.5 seconds if I recall correctly, and this was on a fairly normalized database. Only one table was highly denormalized, and that was nobody could figure out a reasonable way to normalize it. Not sure if I could yet. :) Anyway, it was fast, and on fairly modest equipment: A DG Aviion with first generation Clariion disks, 512 Meg of Ram and 4 CPU's. This may be different for really large OLTP databases with a very high number of users, but I've never had the privilege of working on one that big. e.g. Amazon.com, etc. Jared > > > If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know > > that it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If > > you haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse > > than Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. > > My general impression is that big, commercial packages tend to have a > really bad reputation for being implemented on bad models. If I stay > here, I'll probably learn more about Peoplesoft over the next couple > of years. > > Obviously it is human nature for multi-platform commercial package > vendors to not "do the right thing" from a platform oriented purist > dba perspective. > > But, I can't see that all that has anything to do with legitimate > structured denormalization practices. > > What I'm mainly thinking of was an old article in Oracle magazine on > denormalization by Ulka Rogers. > > > ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) > > > > One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a > > normalized schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The > > schema is that bad. > > Blessings and peace be upon the righteous and those that abide by the > will of the Supreme Being. > > > > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > > > job? > > > > Sorry, thought I had. > > sorry, I must have missed it. I try to always read your posts, but > sometime, I just have to hit the filter key for this list, and I > never have time to go back and read everything that is dumped out to > an archive folder. > > > My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them > > however. Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several > > positions to HQ in Houston TX. > > hummm, "energy crisis" mess? :) > > > If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why > > I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) > > Yes, I have relatives that were in Eugene from the late 1970s until a > couple of years ago. Excellent quality of life if compared to the > "rat race" mentality prevailing in most urban centers. But, it is too > darn drizzly up there and claustraphobic with all those big deep dark > rain forests for me personally, I'd rather be in the Sonoran desert > (eg, Tuscon) if I had my 'druthers. > > > ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) > > technically I'm a 5th generation (unoffended) texan, but my parents > got me out of there prior to my 2nd birthday. I do like grits, > bisquits and gravy, blackeye peas, okra and all that good stuff. :) > > > I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get > > into the contracting side of things. > > wow! > > thanks/regards, > ep -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailin
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
I've thought that it would be interesting and lucrative work offering third party apps companies my services in modeling and designing databases. Problem is, they don't understand how bad they truly are. Anyone have ideas on selling ignorant ( no disrespect intended ) folks on why they need the services of good modelers and DBA's? Jraed On Friday 20 April 2001 03:55, Thater, William wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2001,Jared Still scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: > > ->If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know > that ->it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If > you ->haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse > than ->Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. > > take a look at MetaSolv's TBS.;-) i'll stack it up against Remedy > anyday. can you say circular references? i knew you could.;-) > > -- > Bill Thater Certifieable ORACLE DBA > Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~~ > You gotta program like you don't need the money, > You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, > You gotta run like there's nobody watching, > It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. > ~~ > Another megabytes the dust. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
true grits / Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
On 19 Apr 2001, at 17:50, Jared Still wrote: Date sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:50:27 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers > with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code for > a normalized database. OH MY GOD! I was sure that all you highly paid real world DBAs always got everything you want. Another bubble burst. ... > > I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely normalized > database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found > it necessary for some reason. > > We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started > doing physical modeling. Sigh. Well, why would you *not* want to denormalize during design? It seems to me that (theoretically) ***if*** you are doing "structured" denormalization correctly, that is exactly when you would want to do it, no? > If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that > it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you > haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than > Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. My general impression is that big, commercial packages tend to have a really bad reputation for being implemented on bad models. If I stay here, I'll probably learn more about Peoplesoft over the next couple of years. Obviously it is human nature for multi-platform commercial package vendors to not "do the right thing" from a platform oriented purist dba perspective. But, I can't see that all that has anything to do with legitimate structured denormalization practices. What I'm mainly thinking of was an old article in Oracle magazine on denormalization by Ulka Rogers. > > ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) > > One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a normalized > schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema > is that bad. Blessings and peace be upon the righteous and those that abide by the will of the Supreme Being. > > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > > job? > > Sorry, thought I had. sorry, I must have missed it. I try to always read your posts, but sometime, I just have to hit the filter key for this list, and I never have time to go back and read everything that is dumped out to an archive folder. > > My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them however. > Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several positions > to HQ in Houston TX. hummm, "energy crisis" mess? :) > > If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why > I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) Yes, I have relatives that were in Eugene from the late 1970s until a couple of years ago. Excellent quality of life if compared to the "rat race" mentality prevailing in most urban centers. But, it is too darn drizzly up there and claustraphobic with all those big deep dark rain forests for me personally, I'd rather be in the Sonoran desert (eg, Tuscon) if I had my 'druthers. > ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) technically I'm a 5th generation (unoffended) texan, but my parents got me out of there prior to my 2nd birthday. I do like grits, bisquits and gravy, blackeye peas, okra and all that good stuff. :) > I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get into > the contracting side of things. wow! thanks/regards, ep -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
William, Have you tried to figure out Portal? Next to this beast, Remedy looks pretty good. David A. Barbour Oracle DBA "Thater, William" wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Apr 2001,Jared Still scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: > > ->If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that > ->it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you > ->haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than > ->Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. > > take a look at MetaSolv's TBS.;-) i'll stack it up against Remedy > anyday. can you say circular references? i knew you could.;-) > > -- > Bill Thater Certifieable ORACLE DBA > Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~~ > You gotta program like you don't need the money, > You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, > You gotta run like there's nobody watching, > It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. > ~~ > Another megabytes the dust. > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Thater, William > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: David A. Barbour INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
Hi, I actually had to write some Perl scripts to transfer user data from a billing software's DB to Remedy ... and I was eventually slightly surprised that the Remedy folks were really able to deliver a ER model even worse then the billing software's model. But they did a great job in accomplishing that goal ;). By the way, I think that highly normalized databases (3rd is enough) would support application development if the software designers put more effort into object relational mapping. I always found it much easier to map objects to a normalized DB. But I guess some developers prefer cramming everything into a maximum of 1 table ;). implementing data integrity within the database, huh ? Never heard of that foreign keys ? What's that ? "And we have to stick to SQL 92 in order to support ANY RDBMS ever made ..." blah .. and so on ... Jared Still schrieb: > > Comments embedded > > On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote: > ... > > As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a > > method for modification of a normalized design. There should be > > disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase > > in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). > > > > I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, > > documented in industry journals, and so forth. > > > > In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using > > pure normalized designs? > > In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers > with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code for > a normalized database. > > I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely normalized > database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found > it necessary for some reason. > > We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started > doing physical modeling. Sigh. > > If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that > it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you > haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than > Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. > > ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) > > One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a normalized > schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema > is that bad. > > > > > Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? > > > > Hardware, and Oracle has improved in it's ability to join. I assume other > databases are faster than in years past as well. > > > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > > job? > > Sorry, thought I had. > > My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them however. > Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several positions > to HQ in Houston TX. > > If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why > I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) > > ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) > > I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get into > the contracting side of things. > > Jared > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Jared Still > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > --- > This Mail has been checked for Viruses > Attention: Encrypted Mails can NOT be checked ! > > *** > > Diese Mail wurde auf Viren ueberprueft > Hinweis: Verschluesselte Mails koennen NICHT geprueft werden! > -- Regards, Stefan Jahnke BOV AG @:D2 Vodafone, Abt.: FIBM AMS-Gebäude: E6 R08 Tel.: 0211/533-4893 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like su
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001,Jared Still scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: ->If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that ->it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you ->haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than ->Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. take a look at MetaSolv's TBS.;-) i'll stack it up against Remedy anyday. can you say circular references? i knew you could.;-) -- Bill Thater Certifieable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Another megabytes the dust. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
Comments embedded On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote: ... > As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a > method for modification of a normalized design. There should be > disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase > in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). > > I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, > documented in industry journals, and so forth. > > In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using > pure normalized designs? In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code for a normalized database. I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely normalized database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found it necessary for some reason. We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started doing physical modeling. Sigh. If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a normalized schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema is that bad. > > Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? > Hardware, and Oracle has improved in it's ability to join. I assume other databases are faster than in years past as well. > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > job? Sorry, thought I had. My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them however. Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several positions to HQ in Houston TX. If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get into the contracting side of things. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
Jared, I agree completely with your disagreement, except that I don't agree that you should have disagreed since we actually agree. You did say it better, though. :) unnormalized != denormalized (etc.) As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a method for modification of a normalized design. There should be disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, documented in industry journals, and so forth. In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using pure normalized designs? Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? ep ps, liked the popcorn eating method, feedbags can also be found at livestock supply places pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last job? On 19 Apr 2001, at 13:11, Jared Still wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Eric D. Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ORACLE installations? Date sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:11:40 -0700 > > > In general, be skeptical of doctrinaire statements about needing > > "pure" normalized designs. Instead look into "structured > > denormalization" methods, especially if performance will be an issue. > > > I'll disagree with that, vehemently even. :) > > Build a normalized design, denormalize if you find it necessary. > > Any other approach to denormalization is counter productive. > > Most performance problems are in the code and poorly designed > SQL statements. > > Why complicate your life with denorms that must be coded around? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
> In general, be skeptical of doctrinaire statements about needing > "pure" normalized designs. Instead look into "structured > denormalization" methods, especially if performance will be an issue. I'll disagree with that, vehemently even. :) Build a normalized design, denormalize if you find it necessary. Any other approach to denormalization is counter productive. Most performance problems are in the code and poorly designed SQL statements. Why complicate your life with denorms that must be coded around? Jared ( yes, I do have an opinion ) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
http://www.cuore.es > On 19 Apr 2001, at 0:00, Beatriz Martinez wrote: -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
Bon dia, Keep in mind the 70% industry failure rate, and decide if you need to spend money on outside experts. If you do decide to get outside help, make sure it is good (sensa pallassos). There are probably a lot of resources available about database design (normalization/etc.) Try the following web site (oriented toward american/english only) as a start: http://www.odtug.com In general, be skeptical of doctrinaire statements about needing "pure" normalized designs. Instead look into "structured denormalization" methods, especially if performance will be an issue. I know a guy here (venezuelan, abuelos/padres de espana, esposa de catalunya) who works for an international consulting company that has been working for about five years on a SAP/Oracle implementation for a local HP manufacturing facility. They took 19 separate previous legacy systems (all HR, business, manufacturing, shipping, etc.) and converted to SAP/Oracle. It works. I work at a University, one of twenty five campuses around California, that is in the process of starting up a $350,000,000+ (yes, 350 million $) integration project including converting existing campus data systems to an outsourced (single site, out of state) datacenter running Peoplesoft on Oracle/Sun. The old systems (Information Associates) were mostly Cobol/VSAM on IBM mainframes, but there were several campuses that had other systems, including, I think, several Banner/Oracle student records systems (Unix?). During the project, besides the Peoplesoft/Oracle component, a lot of money will be spent on infrastructure, especially networking, and standardizing support of desktops (PC hardware and software). Other than that, at this campus, historically Oracle usage has been "minor" (non-mission-critical) mostly in 1) lab environment for instruction of Computer Science students, 2) some small/medium commercial software packages that run on Oracle (NT and Unix), and 3) some small Oracle servers are set up for small departmental applications. I'm one of those in group #3, we do research and data collection in support of grant funding. If we were starting all over from the beginning, it would probably make a lot more sense to use sql server, but when we started using Oracle (12 years), sql server didn't exist. Also, we get special educational discounts for Oracle licenses. Several years ago, around the time of the "asian" economic collapse, I read an article (business analysis) about how Oracle had pretty much saturated its traditional database markets (large telecommunications companies, etc.) Viola, "eCommerce", a new market was born. At the big conference (IOUG?) that Oracle puts on for users in the USA every year, the main IT guy at amazon.com talked about how they run their business on Oracle. Maybe someone can find out if his talk is on one of Oracle's web sites. Several years ago (5?) I talked to a gentleman in the Cartography Department at the University, Barcelona that was using Oracle. At that time the economy was bad in Spain, and I was trying to find out of it was possible to get a job there since my wife is catalan, and wanted to move back from the USA. He said that use of Oracle in Spain was somewhat limited to government agencies and telecoms, and that in his opinion, since americans were responsible for the bad economic conditions (globalism/etc.), it was unlikely that I'd find anything there. Anyway, you should probably call the Universities/Colleges and ask the professors and staff what industries are in your area that use Oracle. If you have time, please look up International Oracle User Groups on the web, and contact the people in Madrid. If you go to one of their meetings, you can meet Oracle customers, and informally exchange information. Oracle craporation is considered to be very masterful at marketing (selling their products, $). You may find that a lot of the material you hear from Oracle marketing people is very "slick" (propaganda). It is a very good idea to get a "reality check" about what you hear from Oracle's marketing people. I don't know if they still have them, or if so, if they are any good anymore, but ask for a "pre-sales technical consultant" if the regular marketing people don't seem to be able to explain technical details to your satisfaction. adeu, ep On 19 Apr 2001, at 0:00, Beatriz Martinez wrote: Date sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:00:22 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> tions? > Hello list, > We are beginning a proyect in ORACLE, and I wonder myself if there is > any place where I could find any real implementation, or any experience > (good or horrible.) for orienting correctly us. > I mean, which different databases should we create, which > restrictions... Something related with real implementation. Really I > don´t know what we are looking for, but something that could help us to > begin. > Maybe it´s an strange petition. Anyway, if any of y
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
Beatriz, What about starting by getting the "ORACLE 8i Starter Kit book" that should get you off the ground. Good Luck ! Tavo Beatriz Martinez wrote: > Hello list, > We are beginning a proyect in ORACLE, and I wonder myself if there is > any place where I could find any real implementation, or any experience > (good or horrible.) for orienting correctly us. > I mean, which different databases should we create, which > restrictions... Something related with real implementation. Really I > don´t know what we are looking for, but something that could help us to > begin. > Maybe it´s an strange petition. Anyway, if any of you have any idea, We > would be very grateful, > TIA, a lot > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Beatriz Martinez > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). begin:vcard n:de Urioste;Luis Octavio tel;fax:850.455.0673 tel;work:850.457.3218 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Raytheon Aerospace;IT version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Systems Analyst adr;quoted-printable:;;250 San Carlos Road=0D=0ABuilding 1853 - UNFO;Pensacola;Florida;32534;U.S.A. fn:Luis Octavio de Urioste end:vcard
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
Hi, If nobody in your team knows Oracle then you really should hire a good Oracle consultant to help you start in the good direction. On the bad side, if nobody in your team knows Oracle then it is not obvious to hire a good consultant. Trust me, it won't be wasted money. --- Beatriz Martinez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Hello list, > We are beginning a proyect in ORACLE, and I wonder > myself if there is > any place where I could find any real > implementation, or any experience > (good or horrible.) for orienting correctly us. > I mean, which different databases should we create, > which > restrictions... Something related with real > implementation. Really I > don´t know what we are looking for, but something > that could help us to > begin. > Maybe it´s an strange petition. Anyway, if any of > you have any idea, We > would be very grateful, > TIA, a lot > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Beatriz Martinez > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). = Stéphane Paquette DBA Oracle, consultant entrepôt de données Oracle DBA, datawarehouse consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?paquette=20stephane?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installations?
Hello list, We are beginning a proyect in ORACLE, and I wonder myself if there is any place where I could find any real implementation, or any experience (good or horrible.) for orienting correctly us. I mean, which different databases should we create, which restrictions... Something related with real implementation. Really I don´t know what we are looking for, but something that could help us to begin. Maybe it´s an strange petition. Anyway, if any of you have any idea, We would be very grateful, TIA, a lot -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Beatriz Martinez INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
